Managed Chloe-Hannah v.2 Audio.txt
English (US)

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When people say like, oh, all press is good press, it's like, well, not all this bad press, to be fair. Yeah, it's literally what people say to feel better. In podcasts where people clip sections and the context isn't there. Yeah, that's the worst one. When you do an interview, whether it's podcast, you know, radio, like you sit down with a journalist, you're basically giving them consent to take anything that you said and use it the way they want.

I one of the things when I went to LA, I noticed that only fans it doesn't affect your career. Yeah, in the States. But I would say it does here make it attraction for example. Like that. Baffling. Shows you like it isn't saying that you can show that on TV here. So there's some parts of it where I'm like, wow, you guys are really like, you're showing some live TV.

Like, you know, for like, I've never heard you say that. A lack of lack of a better word.

00:00:52.760 — 00:13:48.340
Chloe, my American beauty, I want to welcome you to my podcast. Obviously, we've spoken a lot about it. You've been helping me with the planning of it and relaunching, but to kind of give a bit of a background about you, you are a publicity extraordinaire. You know, both the American side, the UK side. Some of your clients have been Amie Charlie's Sophie Habu and Ariana Aguilar from Mars label.

Yes, and Mars a label. I think you also did founder and brand and you've been doing some incredible, incredible things in the UK, including You Got Me for Santa Fe, which I will pick your brain about later. For those who are maybe interested in that kind of list. So welcome. Thank you! I'm so excited to be here and chat all things PR.

So for those who don't know who you are, you are a publicist? Yes, my publicist, to be fair. Yes. And you are from across the pond? Yep. Born and raised in California. Um, I have a very random background, a little bit of fashion, a little bit of entertainment, a little bit of marketing and social media. And then I moved across the pond.

Three years ago, um, got my master's in luxury brand strategy, and I've been doing PR ever since you and I started working together. Like, yeah, just coming years ago. Yeah, almost exactly two years ago. Um, yeah. So it's been good to kind of see the differences between the US and the UK, because there's quite a few.

What do you say the main differences in like, especially like PR and also I guess talent because I would say American talent British talent. Very very different. Yeah. Very different. I think coming over here, I would say that UK talent is quite, um, for the most part, like it's, it's kind of isolated like to the UK.

Um, so there was a lot of like learning who people are. But having been here three years like now, some people who I may have never heard of, you know, being from the US, I understand, like the cultural impact they have on the UK, how big they are. So I think it definitely like the people in the UK holds so much power, but it's just kind of more concentrated.

Um, to the, you know, demographics. But yeah, I'd say the UK. It's funny because in some ways you guys are really conservative. Um, and in some ways you're not. So, you know, you might have some people who are just very out there who get famous here, who may in the US may not, versus some people like, you know, won't be touched with a ten foot pole just because they bet on like one reality show or something.

Um, so yeah, it's it's a bit more random, but you guys definitely have some fun personalities. I one of the things when I went to LA, I noticed that OnlyFans it doesn't affect your career. Yeah in the States. But I would say it does here. Yeah. Which is also funny because like like use naked attraction for example.

Like that shows you that is a like it is insane that you can show that on TV here. So there's some parts of it where I'm like, wow, you guys are really like, out there. Yeah. Out there, like you're showing dicks on live TV. Like, you know, for a lot of you say that, like, lack of a better word. Um, yeah. But yeah, then, like, you know, an OnlyFans person, it's like.

No. Do you think we have a really backdated view of things like that? Because some of your biggest, like, I guess, celebrities looking at Harry, Jose, you know, he has no OnlyFans. Yeah I would say yeah I feel like the UK in terms of like media and PR or public perception is like a few years behind the US. So I do think the one thing about Britain, though, is very much that we are you people own who they are over here.

Yeah. And it's not like anyone tries to be anything different. It is I am who I am. You take me or leave me. Yeah. And I think that's where we are really behind. Even down to, like, fees. I think we're really behind on American fees are ten times higher than the UK. Yeah, everything's a lot more of a business in the US from what I've learned.

So, you know, one of my first jobs I worked for a big producer, um, in entertainment, and I was around a lot of, like, big celebrities. And, like, what you really notice is it's not so much about, like, obviously everyone you know has different talents. And there are people who are super, super talented.

But the celebrity of it is such a business. And I mean, you know, this with talent management, I know this with PR, but I feel like more so in the US, celebrities are just kind of like pawns that are being, you know, capitalized on being pushed to different markets versus here. I feel like it is a bit more about the talent.

Um, you know, there's obviously still a lot of the business behind each talent, but maybe that kind of also plays into why the fees are lower and like why things aren't such at such a big scale. But, um, you think you guys definitely appreciate, like, raw talent a lot more here? Um, I mean, sorry, this is kind of a tangent, but like, look how many like, actors and musicians that are mainstream and known worldwide come from this island.

Like, it's kind of crazy. It's so weird to hear you speak about. And good like that. An island? Yeah. Um. Tropical island. But, um, actually, tropical day is 32 degrees today. Yeah. There you go. Tropical island. Just missing the palm trees. Um, but, yeah, like, it's kind of crazy that there's, like, all of these A-list actors that are from England.

When you think about, like, the rest of the world where they could be coming from, you guys do foster talent really well, where I think the US goes a bit too hard on just kind of capitalizing on them a bit too young. Yeah. I also think it's, um, like the way we manage people here is different, you know? I mean, you've spoken about it before.

Um, in terms of the percentages are different. Uh, it's very much more an agent, not a manager, or like there's a manager and an agent than a publicist. Publicist? It's like, completely different structure. Like it's almost quite extreme. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a lot more of a a business is a business transaction.

Talent are commodities and not people. And that is very much how I think I've experienced it in the US, and I can't speak for everyone because that might not be true for everyone. But yeah, in terms of what I've experienced and the agents that I've met in the US have come here to kind of set up shop. The way that those discussions are ran very different.

Yeah. And I think, you know, it may open up more in the UK, like you guys may operate here a bit more like in the they do in the US in the next couple of years. But it'll be interesting to see that as the shift is happening. Like what the general reception is like in 5 or 10 years. Are things going to be more like the US when it comes to the creator economy, or is it going to be like, you know, very sticking to the roots of like, you know, when you started, had you had a specific vision for digital first talent?

Um, you know, how much is that going to not stray? How much is that going to evolve from your original vision? Um, to kind of fit what the rest of the world is doing. Or are you going to, like, really stick with it and stick to the original recipe? I think the original recipe is always the most important thing you can alter things to, you know, make it a little bit fresher.

Yeah. Um, but I think ultimately there's the secret to your sauce is always what kind of got you there to begin with. And I think people can feel the pressure of business and, and their competitors, which is why you should try not to look at your competitors too much. Yeah. Uh, I always say to our talent. But I think it's very true in business.

You know, comparison is the thief of joy. Yeah. So would I compare myself to others? I can really lose, like, lose track of where I'm at or where I'm heading, or, you know, everything I wanted this, like last year, is what I've achieved this year. Yet somehow I'm not grateful for it. So you kind of have to bring yourself back down to earth.

I think an interesting one that obviously we've worked together for a few years and I've had I've worked with a lot of different PR companies for hold and our talent. I think one of the things I think have been great about you is understand, you understand founders and how different we are, and that we all want different things.

But if you were a founder, if you were speaking to a founder now, and they said to you, Chloe, I want to take my business from here to here, and I want to do that with the press, and I'm willing to put myself out there. What would you say the first initial steps they should be taking, especially if they don't maybe have a budget to hire someone?

Yeah, I think there's definitely a lot of things that people can do to do their own PR. Um, it really doesn't have to be this, you know, giant investment that you spend on. It is really nice when you get to that point to have a team to take it over, because it does take a lot of time. It's nice to have like a larger team to strategize for you.

But, um, I would say for founders, the main thing and every founder will know this about their business. So it's not even that hard. It's like really identifying what makes you unique in your industry. So USP yeah, your USP. So for you, for example, one thing that we really focused on in your press approach and one thing that really worked well is highlighting, like you being one of the first on the scene of digital, first talent going to mainstream market.

So, you know, Gabourey, for example, taking her from a coveted TikTok star to, you know, having all of these mainstream campaigns and the brand entertainment, you know, side being on these big nationwide shows, being introduced to the larger audiences outside of TikTok. Um, so that's really what we focus on.

And every founder and every business is going to have their USP. So number one, identifying that and then to really understanding who you want to share the story with. Um, so I think it just kind of takes a lot of social listening, as we call it in the industry. It's um, just understanding like what the press is talking about, where audiences are listening.

So for example, right now, you know, social Formats YouTube, Instagram TikTok, like so many outlets, are kind of focusing and investing on those platforms because a lot of their demographics aren't really, you know, picking up print anymore. They're not really scrolling online. They want that kind of easy, quick format to take in their information.

So, um, you know, making sure that you can tailor your story to the specific people that you want it to be in the hands of. Yeah. Um, and then relationship building is like the number one thing for press. So, you know, having coffees with different editors, basically just having them get to know you and your story, I think it's so the media is very oversaturated.

It always has been. But now more than ever, like there's more founders than ever. There's also kind of media's dwindling down a bit. That's I think it's like a trend, isn't it? If you're a founder, you want to be in front of the camera a bit more and you want to push yourself out there. I know we've spoken about a few times.

How often do you have either you know, maybe someone who's come from digital to mainstream or someone from the TV or a founder go. I want to be just like them. Yeah, it happens a lot. How easy is it to do? Because realistically, you never you can't. It's not a copy and paste answer. And also, I also think the moment that you start trying to do that as a talent, you don't know who you are still, because if you did know who you are, you wouldn't say, I want to do what they're doing, I want to do this.

You can get inspiration, but you should really go. You know, I think what they've done is really amazing. But actually, I'm a completely different talent, so that that approach wouldn't work. Yeah, I think I mean, we have this a lot like people will have a specific person in their mind and they say, I want to do this exact art that they did.

I want to be on this same TV show, that they were same, cover all these things, and then you kind of have to reel them in and be like, look, first of all, you don't want to be seen as a copycat of this person. I do think, you know, whether you're talent, whether you're a brand founder, whoever you are, it is good to have one or at least a few people that you like what they're doing.

Because especially like me as a publicist, it allows me to kind of like see the the types of things you'd like to do. Yeah. Like where your kind of goals are. And I'll have my own ideas of goals I have for you, but, um, it does give us, like a good kind of benchmark to be like, okay, would this person be doing this?

Probably not. So you shouldn't either. But that being said, like, there may be a lot of opportunities that you get through, you know, press strategy or from building your brand that they wouldn't get. So it's important to focus on like what makes you, you you. But um, yeah, it's good to kind of have like a idea of who you want to emulate without being a copycat.

Bring us on to that. What would you say the number one PR mistake people make is? It's like. Or even the things you've seen other publicists do, because also the publicity market is really different here. Yeah. To the States too. Yeah. It's all different. It's all different. I would say it's a lot more reactive here.

Um, it's a lot more.

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There's a lot more tabloids going around. Um, you know, the British tabloids are pretty notorious for being pretty hardcore and intense. So that. Worse than the American tabloids? Yeah, definitely. Really? Yeah. Interesting. Um, do you have, like, TMZ? And they, like, film people from their driveways and stuff?

Yeah. I mean, I would say tabloids in any form, you know, aren't the best. Um, but I think here there's just it's a bit more of the Wild West when it comes to. Yeah. You know what's allowed and what's not allowed. From a journalism perspective. Um, and so that can kind of, you know, make it difficult for the client, for the publicist, for everyone involved.

Um, but I would say the number one PR mistake that I see people making is not having, like, a conducive strategy. So if you're just doing kind of whatever interview you can get, you're doing it kind of randomly, like you want to make sure that what's landing is going towards that larger goal. So it's always about elevating.

It's always about taking it to the next level. Um, you know, obviously it's very hard to go from 0 to 100. So there are going to be, you know, if someone's starting with like no press, like there are going to be a lot of kind of smaller outlets that we work with and things like that. But once you kind of get to a certain level, like it's really important that you don't over saturate yourself, that you don't give access to people who don't need access to you, and that you keep your, like, storytelling very concise, clear and like very linear into the direction you want to go.

Um, like if you look at the biggest celebrities, people who are doing it really well, like they're not doing all these random interviews, they're not talking to tabloids. They're very planned and strategize with management. Yeah, exactly. It's like you don't, you know, take your top talent and just do any brand that comes and asked for it.

So I think when people say like, oh, all press is good press, it's like, well, people say that when this bad press, to be fair. Yeah, it's literally what people say. That's to feel better. Yeah. And there will be things we do like we always want to build everyone's SEO. So say somebody has not great stories about them or they went through a little scandal or something.

You know, we may do kind of a few more stories to help build out their SEO and drown out the other stories, but, um, yeah, generally like, just keep it elevating and above board. This, this is actually a really interesting question of if you are a talent who has because this would happen more to a talent, or maybe someone's just been kind of embroiled in, in like the public eye that didn't really intend to end up there.

Haven't got a publicist. Yeah. And a story is published that isn't necessarily fully true. What are the steps that that person could take to combat it or remove it in terms of the league goals in the UK press is different to the US, I'm guessing so, yeah, if so, if that story was to run and there is discrepancies and it was actually a little bit destroying, what would be the first steps that you would take, um, to have that either removed or to protect yourself.

Yeah. So I would say the main thing that I always tell clients and yeah, if they don't have a publicist, they can tell themselves, this is like one, are you in the right or the wrong? Most of the time, especially with cancel culture these days, like the person's normally didn't necessarily do anything wrong.

Maybe something was taken the wrong way, but, um, like, it just starts by reassuring them or reassuring yourself if you don't have a team that like, okay, I didn't do anything wrong because I know, I mean, I've seen it firsthand how badly it affects people when something not true has been published about them in the press.

Like, it's it's very disheartening. I can't even imagine, like, being on that side of it. So that's set one. Um. Step two. This is where, like, relationship building comes in. It's good to kind of like, have a relationship with people who can have influence at these outlets, too. Um, you know, just kind of like plea from a human side, like, hey, look, this actually isn't what happened.

Um, this is really affecting me. Like, I'd appreciate some kind of, you know, either change in the headline to be a bit less, you know, defamatory or something changed in the article or having it removed altogether. Um, I would say it's not always the easiest to get an entire article removed. If it's a the one thing I have learned over is completely untrue.

You can send a takedown notice. Yeah, so it's like a legal takedown notice if it's completely somehow fabricated. And it's very rare that happens. But yeah. So when things are untrue, the, you know, rules of journalism is you can't publish something that's not true. That's just kind of like the laws of society.

Um, that being said, some people will get technical. They'll, um, you know, kind of push that. Um, I would say, yeah, if it's an individual, especially if you don't have that many resources or, you know, money's a bit tighter, it's just not there. Like, legal action can be a bit tricky because a lot of these big media houses have the legal teams equipped for this.

Um, and they'll kind of, like, throw your claims away. So I'd always like, kind of leave any legal action for the very last step, because you don't want to just kind of throw it out there and then have them just kind of like throw it away. Um, but yeah. And then all else fails. Like, you can't get the story changed.

You can't take legal action. What I do is just, like, divert attention. So is there kind of, like a fun PR stunt you can pull, you know, are you a single person who the public is very invested in your dating life? Can you kind of stage, you know, something with another like friend in the public eye, staged some paparazzi pictures, like get people talking about something else.

Can you go do like, something to just make noise outside of what that is? Um, so yeah, just try and, like, take oxygen out of it as much as possible. Um, but it can be really hard. It's very, like, situational. Yeah, because it's not I'm not giving you really an example, but I guess it's more a case of there's we talk about different things that happen all the time.

And I know that the one and I also work with other publicists for our clients and, you know, things have before have, you know, come from people and they've been released that we didn't want released. And yeah, it's a constant battle that I guess I faced as a manager. And every, every single time, you know, if it's slightly true, you guys tell me I can't do much about it.

Yeah, that I find quite frustrating because especially if it's not fully true, but it's not quite like not true. There's only so much that can be done. Yeah, there's only so much that can be done. And I think also understanding if you do have a team, a lot of times like we're just as frustrated as you that nothing can be done.

So it is really kind of about when you hit that point, it's like, okay, what's next? How can we like come back with a strong strategy? I would say no, it's best practice to not address it, not give your own statement. Unless, like I said, you're categorically in the wrong. Then we can think about like we might have different opinions here.

Do you believe in saying sorry? I personally, unless it is something that is like either homophobic, racist or your political views are absolutely unjustified. Yeah, I do not believe that you should apologize. Yeah, well, that's that's what I would count as categorically and wrong, because I actually think to say something comes out and then and actually you haven't actually done anything wrong, but the, the perception is that you should apologize.

Yeah. Or I'm trying to give up a good example of things that have happened or someone doesn't like something you've posted, but actually what you've done is nothing wrong. Yeah. And everyone's like, you should apologize. I believe that actually adds more fuel to the fire, and then you're admitting you're wrong, even if it actually wasn't quite that like that.

I think as well you can add an extra week's worth of attention. Yeah, it's something that I, uh, I feel like if you have to apologize, you should. But I do also think sometimes less is more. No, I 100% agree with that. So that's what I mean by, like, if the person is in the wrong, it depends what that wrong is, because it can be just an opinion.

Well, for us, wrong is like they hurt somebody else and not like hurt someone's feelings like they hurt somebody else. Like, I mean, again, it's all very situational, but like you said, like anything homophobic, racist, like, you know, kind of what should the entire society. Exactly. But that's what that's what we always start with is, like, you didn't do anything wrong.

So that's why we're not going to say anything. That's why we're not going to apologize. Like, you don't want to give this more attention by getting into the like he said she said, I mean, we see this a lot with like, people who have breakups in the public eye. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like this one.

It's hard because we've not given exact situations and I wouldn't be honest. But yeah, I think

00:22:34.200 — 00:36:32.700
especially for the younger maybe managers coming into this industry and say, you have a talent who said something maybe a little bit controversial, but actually it's not hurt anyone and it's just more a couple of people just don't think you should have said it. I think sometimes addressing things and making a bigger deal out of it, when only 1 or 2 people have said something.

And catastrophizing is the worst thing you can do. And there's always a way, because sometimes it's just taken out of context. The worst case scenarios of these are in podcasts where people clip sections and the context isn't there. Yeah, that's the worst one. And I do think with those, if people are willing to clip it, then what they're doing is clickbait in it, and what they're doing is trying to create a narrative that was never part of the bigger picture.

Yeah, I don't I don't really agree with that kind of marketing. I think it can be quite Detrimental to not only your career, but also to someone's personal feelings. Because it's so easy to take things out of context. It's so easy. And this is what we say to clients and media training is like when you do an interview, whether it's podcast, you know, radio, like you sit down with a journalist, you're basically giving them consent to and, you know, you'll kind of work out before like, oh, yeah, we get approval, all this stuff.

But, um, essentially you're giving consent for them to take anything that you said and use it the way they want. And what comes with that is people will likely try and get that clickbait. They'll try and get that interest because they at the end of the day, they want, you know, people to click on the page. They want viewers, they want listens.

That's how they make money. Um, so they're going to try and take whatever's juiciest. So we always say they can only work with what you give them. So if you're giving them like things that they can take out of context, then they probably will. And you can't really be mad at it because you agreed to this? Yeah.

You know, we can try and minimize it. We can try and. Like, if we have a good relationship and try to be like, hey, this, you know, doesn't really paint a picture of what the interview was about, but, um, you know, if you say something salacious, if you say something with a buzzword like, they're probably going to use it.

So we always say, if somebody is doing an interview, you know, say you went through a recent breakup, but you don't want to talk about that breakup, and you're doing an interview about like a book you have coming out or something. Like, do not engage with any breakup talk because I assure you, they will take whatever you say about that breakup and put it in the headline.

Clip it. If it's a podcast, put it on socials because that's what the audience wants to hear. So stay. You've got to stay really focused to the message of that interview. Um, and yeah, just be aware that, like if you do talk about certain things that are a bit, you know, more buzzy people are probably going to take it out of context.

How important is media training to talent? Hmm. Is this something you'd recommend to other talent managers, especially maybe ones coming up in the industry now. Like personally. Yeah, I have talent who are a little bit on the wild side. Yeah. So I very much put all of our time in media training. Definitely important.

Um, everyone has a different level that they come, you know, into PR with, with like some people have been in the spotlight since they were a kid. So they're very kind of well versed. They're very polished, put together. Um, and yeah, some people will like a lot of people that you work with, a lot of people in the creator space, like they're not used to being in the public eye.

They're not used to having every word being scrutinized. So they do kind of need to have these tools in their back pocket. Um, and it really comes down to like your natural human tendency when you're a bit nervous or you're in a big situation is to overshare, is to talk fast, is to kind of like, say things that you maybe didn't want to say.

So it's just about like getting them to really, like, get in the zone, put on their kind of press persona. Like we want them to feel like themselves, but also just like, be aware. Yeah. Um, like, I always just say, we're almost like, you know how lawyers will warn you, you know, the worst possible case scenario.

And you'll be like, all right, that probably won't happen, but good to know. Like, peers are a bit like that too, because, like, I will always warn people, this is the very worst that can happen to you. Um, we hope for the best. It probably won't happen, but I don't want you to be surprised if you do this. And then this happens.

Um, so there is a bit of, like, scaring people into scaremongering. Yeah. In a healthy dosage. This is actually wild. Um, so I want to be famous. Not not to me, this person. But someone says to you, I want to be famous. Three buzz. Three quick fire ways to make themselves famous. What would you. What would you say?

Oh my gosh. Um. One be unique. Like, what is interesting about you that's going to get people to watch instead of watching whoever they're already watching. So I think the people who are becoming famous now, they have something really unique that like. Like I saw a guy the other day, he had like 20 million followers, and he goes around in most people's houses and just takes like these really cool time lapse videos of it.

It's like, you know, he was probably the first to do that. So there you go. Yeah. Now he's famous. Um, be relatable. I think with social media everyone wants a bit of relatability. Mhm. Um, and three, be smart. Like you have to be willing to work. You have to make good strategic decisions to kind of build that longevity.

You got to build a good team. Yeah. Um, so yeah, sorry, those weren't very quickfire, but it's okay. Um, how important is social media to PR and what you do? It's very important. Um, is that the whole brand image? Like, personal branding comes down into it. There's. It's a full 360. Yeah, I would say, well, on the press or the media side.

Like I was saying earlier. Like so many outlets and new media platforms are so heavily focused on socials. So it is a really good way for, you know, somebody who's not doesn't have like a very young audience or they want to grow their young audience. It's a great way for people to like cross demographics.

And same way, it's great for like an influencer to be on, you know, mainstream TV or something because they're crossing over those demographics. So it's great for that. Um, but yeah, if you're not already like a social media creator, um, it's just useful for people to get to know you a bit more. Personally, I think audiences like they're expecting that parasocial relationship with public figures now.

So where whereas they may not have had, you know, access to someone before. Like with social media, they want that like kind of behind the scenes look, they want that access. I mean, look at all like the big Hollywood blockbuster movies these days. They're all doing major TikTok promos like while they're filming.

You know, I'm a big believer in this too shall pass. And it's like, what? What? It really feels like the end of the world. Today is probably next week's chip paper. And yeah, it's always going to feel really high end at the time. Yeah, but that moment will always pass. Yes. It's like every high, every low. You know, sometimes you have to enjoy all the moments, even the lows.

Because the lows are the things that make you tougher. Yeah. And it's kind of especially if you're a celebrity, you know, in this, in this industry, you'll be kidding yourself if you think it's always going to be a massive high, you know. And the build up is amazing. So enjoy it. Rather than putting so much pressure that, oh, that person is above me.

And this person's doing this because actually when that low does hit, yeah, it hurts and it's not nice and it's the whole team is upset. Your family is everyone's upset and you can come out of it the other way. But I find, you know, like I find this job really, really stressful because people keep doing people.

And when my clients are upset, I find it really tough because we have friendships with everyone. So it is always a tough way and I used to manage a lot of Love Islanders back in the day. They used to get it hard. People were really, really cruel to them sometimes and just seeing these young girls really hot and upset is, uh, you know, and trying to be the bigger person when you're also just as young and you probably can't say anything to relieve because you're not going through it.

Yeah. You you. What kind of advice would you give to somebody who is have is going through one of those low moments in the press? Well, exactly what you said. This too shall pass. And I like I try and acknowledge like, look, I obviously have never been in the public eye. I don't know what it feels like firsthand.

Yeah, but I've seen this happen over and over and over again. And I am in the news cycle every day. Like it? The news cycle is so quick these days. Like, everything really does pass. And time is like the biggest healer, like it is for most things. So I think, um, you know, apart from crisis management and having a strategy there, like saying with talent managers like PR's job is to really be their friend.

Be like a shoulder to cry on, but also give them a little bit of tough love. Like, yeah, you got this. I know it hurts, but it's going to be fine. Yeah. And I know you want to do this and this and this and write to the sun and say something and put your statement out there. I'm like, just knuckle through it. Like, just turn off your phone.

I always tell people, stop reading headlines. That's the worst thing you can do for yourself. It's just in general, like you should not have your Google alerts on, like let your team do that. You should not read your headlines about yourself. Um, I mean, some of the biggest celebrities like I know they are not that I know, but like some of the biggest celebrities I know of, they don't read a single thing about themselves.

A lot of them don't even have Instagram on their phone, good or bad, because it's just not normal. Like it's not human to it's not a normal way of life. For most, it's only a very small percentage of people would understand, uh, having their personal lives sprawled out in the papers. Yeah, I know you can just do crisis packages if, like, everything's gone.

Pete tong yeah, yeah. And, like, you can get different with different PR agencies. Everyone will offer something different. Like, you know, you can get a media training package where you just go over media training. That's obviously going to be a lot less to really introduce the person to our contacts, to see the results, because it does take a bit of time.

Um, I'd say that's like the big thing if somebody is getting a publicist and wants results week one or week two, it's like you got to have a little bit of faith that like the good results take time. Like, yes, you can go pay for an article in some random outlet, um, and get that up. But like, that's not so people can pay to be in magazines.

Yeah. You can pay to be in magazines. What did you say to me before? It's called pay to play. Paid to play. Yeah. There definitely is options out there. Um, it works for some people, but yeah, I think sometimes it can look a bit sponsored. Also, sometimes you're paying more for one article than you would for an entire month of PR.

Something I want to clarify. I remember when I got Forbes 1330. You obviously were the person who put me like, well, you worked at Forbes and put me forward just McAfee. You can't pay to be in Forbes at 30, because at one point I remember that rumor going round and I was like, I did not pay to be in that. You got to get it off your own merit.

And I remember how vigorous that was. It was actually probably more intense than my mortgage. No joke. They wanted every financial of the business, every financial. To me personally. I had to go through my university loans. I actually forgot I even went to university because I dropped out, so I had to go dig back through that.

You know, they wanted my opinions on things. I had to do essays. Yeah, it was a really intense sort of, um, thing. So when people get it, it's a massive achievement because also I remember, uh, we, I got the email saying that I'd been nominated in December 2023. Yeah. Then I had to finish the application process because you have to be nominated to then do the application.

Yeah, you have to be invited to apply. So and so then it was like that took over maybe a month and a half, two months for us to finish. Yeah. Um, and then you don't find out before you find out on the day, uh, like everybody else you can find. And you, you wake up, it's either you, someone sent you the link, or you get an email.

Yeah. And I remember waking up and you were like, oh, my God, you put it. And I had like 15 missed calls because you were in America at the time. Yeah. So you were the night before for me? Yeah. And I literally woke up and I was just so dazed. And I just remember being like, we put so much emphasis on it. It almost.

It took a while to process. Yeah. I just know I would have felt if I hadn't got it because we've been working so hard towards it. For me, that's like the pinnacle of saying I built my business under 30, but anyone who works with Forbes ever is so vetted, and it's why it's the best business magazine. It's so good you really can't pay.

It's really not rigged. Like I had no idea. I was just nervous. Surprised. Unlike some of your clients who you felt should have been in it. Yeah. You had some real powerhouses forward who don't. You just don't know the criteria, what they're looking for or anything like that. It's really hard. It's almost like applying to university.

It's like, you know, some people are, like, interesting. Some people you're like, makes total sense. And then some people who don't get in you're. It's really confusing. Um, but yeah, it's a really tough list. It's a big testament to the US. One is harder. Yeah. You're just the size of it too. Like they think.

Like you said, the US is massive. Yeah, because they do have North America as a separate list. Now I think I have North America and I think they have North America as. But I mean North America. That's us. Canada. Mexico. Like it's. Oh, I didn't actually know. I just thought it was at the top. No. Canada, US, Mexico.

That's okay. Okay. Uh, every day is harder because I've met people who weren't on the list in America, and I was like, why haven't they got it? Because they're amazing. And you're like, Hannah. It's so competitive and it's competitive here. It's really hard. This is why having a differentiation in your business is so important.

Yeah. And you don't get feedback like, you know, the Forbes editors are amazing. They are really communicative. Um. Oh, yeah. The woman we spoke to. I can't remember her name. Alex. Alex was incredible. And we spoke to. And we still speak to her now because we. I did their newsletter of a year recap. You're an alumni?

Yeah, I am. Uh,

00:36:33.980 — 00:39:02.450
and, uh, it was, you know, she's she's lovely and she always. And the one thing I actually do love about the Forbes community is they put you in, like, this group chat anyway, like, you do a slack group chat. So everyone's sort of in it, but you feel part of something, you get invited. All these exclusive events, and they always consistently want to know what you're up to to support you.

You feel part of something bigger. Yeah. Then like just having the title. So obviously, you know, we've done it now. But at the time when I met you, it was like my biggest goal and I had no clue how to do it, and I'd work with a publicist. They also still did. They didn't know how to do it because no one know. It's because it's such a small little in Europe.

If you are a founder or a talent as well, because I put talent forward for it as well. Yeah. Um, how how would you go about it? Because, for example, one thing we did learn is I they ask me now every year who I'd like to put forward in the list. Yeah. So I always I don't know if it's fast tracked the right word, but I can put it right in front of the, uh, the people who select that list, which I think is incredible.

My next goal is I want to be the person to help put people on the list. Then you know, the judges. One thing that I did when we started working together and like I knew that was a huge goal for you, is I, I, I got in touch with Alex, who's the she, you know, is one of the driving forces of the whole list. But I also got in touch with another former, um, person who was on the committee who had judged previous years.

And I was like, look, what are the things that stand out to the judges in an application. And he gave me a lot of really good insight. So I'd say like, definitely learn what they're looking for. Um, you know, at the end of the day, like, you know, all your business stuff too, but it's more about like highlighting what they want to hear.

Also, it's quite hard because you can write so many, you know, pages of things about all that you've accomplished, but you actually have quite a small word word count for, you know what they're asking. So you're like 250 maybe. Yeah. Like a lot of the like things we worked on together was cutting things down.

So really, really understand what you want to come across. Um, because that's it. Like, that's all they're going to judge off of. Yeah. Um, but yeah. And then just keep trying year after year. Like, don't just get discouraged. A lot of people get it at the end of 30 or like closer to 30. I actually got the list 29.

Yeah. And I turned 32.5 weeks later. I literally did by the skin of my teeth. Yeah, yeah. And, like, learn the cut offs. Like you could have been.

00:39:03.610 — 00:39:56.730
I'm forgetting. I think it's sometime in January, but, like, say you turned 30 in February and the list comes out in April, I think you'd still be eligible. You don't have to be. You can turn 30 like, before they give you a cut off. Yeah. So just try and educate yourself. Um, they always will put people who are almost 31st.

I think just because you've got say you're 23, it's like you've got some time. So to make that list where you were 29, you know, that's their last opportunity. Yeah. But yeah, well it's been such a good journey for me and you I know, and I can't wait to see what the future holds. But thank you so much for giving everyone your insight.

Of course. Thank you for having me on Managed Podcast. If you liked the episode, please subscribe. And if you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, any of the above hit the Bell button. Thank you. Thank you so much for watching this episode of managed. If you loved watching, please make sure you're following us so you can receive updates on our next episode.

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