Managed Huda-Hannah Audio.txt
English (US)

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How often does that happen to you when you get confused? I mean, I even get abuse in my DMs sometimes. Like your foundation separated yesterday. This is disgraceful. I'm like, guys, it's quite a clicky industry. People will look at you as like, hmm, do you fit into this kind of sector of the industry or not?

Every successful person you hear talks about it like the self-belief has to be that. Oh, absolutely. You have to be delusional about your ability. You think you have to be a little bit crazy. Sadly, my brother passed away. I was like, right, this is a wake up call. Life's too short. What am I doing in a job that doesn't satisfy me as a makeup artist?

People don't realize, actually, you're a business in itself. You have to market yourself to your business development. Be a therapist. A lot of the time you fake it til you make it. And that's really always been my sort of attitude. You just have to give it a try so people don't realize how early you have to wake up for those days.

I wake up very often to 3 a.m.. You're making me tired. Think about it. It's a graph.

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Welcome to Manchester podcast. Thanks for having me. I can't believe that you agreed to do this. I can't believe you asked me why.

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Oh, I don't know, imposter syndrome. I'm just like, why am I even here? I would say that out of everyone who I kind of work with in terms of like behind the scenes, you. Yeah, the creative side you are spoken about the most and people are very nice. People always tell me how much of a big fan they are of yours, and I make sure first, it's not the makeup brand.

I'm like, no, it does not. Do you? How often does that happen to you? Well, you get confused. I mean, I've been I've turned up to sheets before and it said Huda Kattan on the show, when you saw that, did your face just drop and go, oh, oh, oh, it's so embarrassing. I mean, it's I don't think it's embarrassing for you.

It is notable for them, I think, because like, surely do your research and you don't look similar. Wow. People seem to think we do. We both brown girls. So we fall into the same category, apparently. But I even get abuse in my DMs sometimes. Like your foundation separated yesterday. This is disgraceful.

I'm like, guys, it's the wrong bidder. So yeah, it happens a lot. I guess. Huda is a really unique name anyway. Uh, not Middle East. No, not in the Middle East. But like in terms of, I don't know, any other makeup artist called Huda. Yeah. For you and the other. Well, there's the Love Island Huda now the US love.

Oh yeah. And she was on the cover. I was talking about someone the other the other day was like, Vogue, um, Middle East or something like that. Oh, really? She did. She just sent really great

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love on us. Right. It's USA one. Yeah. She's, um, she's on the saucier side. Let's say she. I think she she had a I've not seen it. Well, have a look at her clips. Google who does something completely good.

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Google, Georgia, USA. Love Island and you'll see. But anyway, there's a few of us now. Okay, fantastic. Well, I'm definitely not getting confused with that one, though. Well, let's ask your husband. I want to go through how we met because for anyone who doesn't know, you are a very successful celebrity makeup artist.

And some of your clients include like Abbey Clancy, Rochelle Humes, Felicia Dixon, to name a few. And you've done some really exciting campaigns. You know, I love seeing your work everywhere, and we've kind of come up together, and I don't think many people know that. So let's go through how we met. For those who don't know, we we have no known each other from the beginning.

So both of our first sort of shoots on our own, we started together and then we realized we lived in the same place. Yeah. And we decided to become best friends there and then. Yeah. And that was, what, ten years ago? Yeah, I'm a bit less. So we I think it was. It was my first shoe. It was a friend of mine who was like, I was working in the city at the time, and I said I wanted to do makeup, and a friend of mine was like, oh, I've got, I've got this guy that's got a brand.

Would you like to come and do the shoot?

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I turned up, I had no idea what I was doing. It was my first ever shoot. And, you know, the guy was so lovely. He'd got an assistant for me, and the assistant had been doing makeup for three years. I was so embarrassed because I pretended that I'd been doing it for ages. But anyway. So I did it. And, um, you probably remember the shoot, but it went well, and I remember you.

Do you remember the shoot? I do remember the shoot very well, because that was quite a difficult shoot for your first one. Yeah. The model in question. Lovely girl. But she had heavily faked hand and sun bedded, so I would say that her skin tone wasn't naturally a tone. And I remember you sitting there with like nine different foundations, panicking, trying to make it fit.

And you did, to be fair. Yeah, she was, I would say probably five shades darker than me, but with fake tan. So I was just so confused. I can't it's a different shade like for me. Like when I fake tan, I go really orange. And that's not a natural. Yeah, she was mahogany. She was. She was very dark. So it was a challenge for my first shoot.

Um, but yeah, I remember you being, like, this young, like, bright eyed girl that was like. Oh, really eager to, like, make a difference and do change now and do

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and do things the right way. So I remember you was like, oh, talking to me and stuff, and I was a stylist on that shoe. We can just bear that in mind. She was styling, I was styling, I feel like she was doing marketing as well. Yeah, I was like helping helping the stylist. And then I was doing the stuff with, like, she's really nice, but she, uh, she's gone down a very different route.

Yeah. And but I was helping her with it, and I don't really know what my role was, but I was kind of doing everything. Thing. I just remember you doing marketing for some reason, but I did do it after I did the social media. I can imagine you did, like, chipped in everywhere you did? Yeah. It's everything. I was trying to help you find these foundation colors.

You know, I remember just being still with you, like it's going to go on here. So. Yeah, I used to be this when I was, like, young and full of energy. Mhm. Yeah. So we, we basically discovered that we lived in the same area didn't we. And then me home and then I was like yeah you can jump in the car with me. And then we had a nice long chat.

And you told me about your life and how, where you grew up and, and we kind of just hit it off from then, didn't we? Yeah. And now you're like, we're like besties. We're besties. And it's more fun for you. Yeah. We actually just went to Egypt together. Oh, but we'll come back to that because it's funny. It's, um.

Yeah, it was a great trip, and it's kind of like, leads more into your day to day. Yeah, but I remember you asking you a lot of questions about how you started, because I obviously was one of the few people you told on set. That was your first shoe. Yeah. And but you had told me in the car about your corporate career before.

So you weren't always a makeup artist? No, no. Do you go into what you were doing before and why you then decided to get into it? So I basically my job before this was I worked as a broker. It was very much so classy as a broker. It's so different to what I do now. Right? Very corporate, um, very sales heavy. So my job was to.

Well, I started off as a broker and then I actually went into sponsorship sales. So my job was to call up investors and basically get big amount, big chunks of money off them. So 50 to 100 grand investments. And then I went on to advertising. So I was kind of like, you know, getting big companies to put their marketing budget into our corporate events.

Um, so really high stress for like long hours. Very male dominated, very target driven. It was hell. I hated it. Um. Awful. I mean, I love the fact that I could make good money. Um, well, at the time, I thought it was good money. Um. And

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not not so much. Um, but it taught me so many things, I think. I think that being in that world and, you know, going out there asking for things really has helped me build my make up career now, because I think as a makeup artist, people don't realize, actually you're a business in itself. Like, you have to do everything.

You have to market yourself. You have to, um, do your business development. You have to, um, be a therapist a lot of the time. Like, there's so many elements to what we do. It's not just the artistry. Um, and which is also a skill set in itself. It is. Yeah. And something that you. You can never get complacent with where you're at.

You have to always develop. But that kind of business side. Of my first chunk of my career really helped me build my makeup career because I went into it completely blind, not knowing what to expect. And it was just that kind of like ambition of like wanting to do well and not being scared to ask for opportunities and put myself in places like the first shoot where I had no idea what I was doing.

But I was like, well, you know what? You fake it til you make it. And that's really always been my sort of attitude. You just have to give it a try. Try your best. Most of the time you won't. You know, you don't realize a lot of people are in the same situation as you in the room. They'll pretend that they know what they're talking about, but actually most of the time people are also winging it.

So, you know, if you kind of take that element of like being intimidated or scared out of it. It really does help you progress in whatever you're trying to do. Do you still feel that way when you enter sets? Like, is there any scenarios now where you walk onto set and you think, God, like, I'm a bit out of my comfort zone here.

Even though you do this day to day? Yeah, yeah. There has been situations where I'm like that. It is. It's quite a cliquey industry. That's one thing that I would, um, kind of warn anyone going into it. You have to be ready for that. You know, our people will look at you as like, hmm, do you fit into this kind of sexual sector of the industry or not?

And you have to try and block that out and just focus on your craft and focus on just doing the best you can do, because you can get really sucked into like, trends. And who do I need to be friends with? And you know what? What circles do I need to mix in and what should I be posting and not posting? And that's like a real big thing for creatives because you get judged from what you put out there.

Um, because your personal brand isn't as like your brand as your. Yeah. Um. Short front. How important would you say your personal brand is to the success of how you are as a makeup artist? Um, I think it is very important, but I also think it depends on what your what your goals are. If you are somebody that wants to be

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front facing so you can be a makeup artist, where you just go do the job and then you leave. You don't show much about your personal life. You don't go down the influencing route. Should I say then your personal brand is probably not as important. It's more about your artistry and what you do. But if you are aiming to kind of create a brand around you as a person and where people, you know buy into your masterclasses or, uh, buy into you as a whole, then your personal brand is very important.

It has to align with your target market, basically. Would you say which which one of those two would you say you are? I think you're a bit of both. I think I'm a bit of both. I.

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The thing is, I do it reluctantly. I don't like being forward facing. Why? Um,

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maybe a bit of insecurity, to be honest. Yeah. I don't see you like that at all. Yeah, well, that's interesting, I, I don't, I don't, I don't know, I think I've, I enjoy the makeup side of things, but I think the forward facing stuff does make me feel a bit nervous. That's the side that makes me feel nervous when I'm on, on, on set and I'm doing the makeup, I'm in my own zone.

I'm not thinking about anything and I'm completely like zoned in to the makeup and what I'm doing, and I really enjoy that part of it. But I realize as a businesswoman how important it is to be forward facing and how much it can grow your career and how it can bring in so many more opportunities. Um, you know, with brands, um, with all sorts of things like sponsorship.

I'm, you know, I've started building my luxury bridal, um, agency. So that's something that is essential for me to be able to encourage other makeup artists in the industry and hairstylists and whoever wants to, wherever this business grows to, to be able to see me as a person and buy into me, not just, you know, how I do makeup so that that's the reason why I push myself to do it.

You know, there's been for example, I work with some brands where I do tutorials, and the first one was honestly, I know exactly what ran this. I thought all of them were pretty good, to be fair. Thank you. I it was and I do this day to day and I have literally worked with people doing tutorials. Yeah. And I think I just think this is a bad tutorial.

Yeah, it's the only way. It's bad. Technically bad. I think if it falls flat on personality. Right. You can. I don't think you can physically. Like I've seen people who are not doing this and they're funny and they just do whatever they do. Terrible makeup. They're funny. But you're not used to being like, face forward.

No I'm not. It's your makeup. I would say it's become quite synonymous with you. It's a very particular style you have. And I think you can really spot your work from a mile away. And I'm not just saying that as your friend. Like, I think it's, you know, and you can tell the people who are trying to like, emulate it and like, you know, inspired and, but for a lot of people wouldn't know you're self-taught.

Yeah. So I've always been very interested in beauty and makeup. Being Middle Eastern, you grow up and it's all about glam. I mean, you've probably know this from a bit. Going on an Arabic wedding with me. How glamorous. Um, Middle-Eastern ladies are. So, you know, you grow up and you go to these really extravagant weddings like you, um.

It's like going to a red carpet event. You go in, like these big ball gowns. You go to the hairdressers, get your hair done, makeup done. And this I was having this done from, I don't know, maybe 12, 13 like really young. And, you know, here in the West getting your makeup done and your, um, hair done. It was it's not really become such a big thing till the recent years, I'd say.

So growing up, being at school. So a little bit about my background, I actually lived in the Middle East, um, for a big chunk of my childhood. So when I came back to the UK in year seven, I was very different. Where where did you live in the Middle East? Do you want to go with your background? Yeah. So you're Syrian?

Yeah. So I my background is Arabic. I'm half Moroccan, half Syrian and uh, speaks Arabic too, by the way, which is very helpful. I did when you go to an Arabic speaking country, which we did. Um, yeah. And it was. I've never seen you speechless. It was hot. To be fair to you. It was hard. It was hard. Um, yeah.

So I lived in Syria before the war. Um, when I was about six. And I stayed there till I was about 13, so a good chunk of my childhood. So when we decided to move back to the UK. Um, I it was secondary school. I went to an all girls school and there was no uniform, so you can imagine, I know. Whereabouts was this? Hampstead, north London.

No uniform. There was no uniform. Unheard of, I know. Right? I was definitely unheard of. Your kids have got some crazy uniforms. They do? Um, so it was very much like, you know, there was so much pressure. All girls school, no uniform to like, you know, have your own style and your own personality. And I've seen your pictures, and I need you to tell me what to add into this, because your look was very different.

Very different. So if you're your best friend from school. Yeah, it goes off every birthday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really bad photos. Yeah. But I thought I looked great. I was like I did back then, a different style maybe I mean I yeah very different. And it wasn't received well I got bullied so badly at school um, and it, it kind of at the time it was, it was a shock to the system was very innocent.

I was very different. Um, and it kind of taught me to just be tough, really, and to stand up for myself and to just be proud of kind of who I am and what what I look like, really, because I was, I was different. There was no one else that looked like me being different, being Middle-Eastern. Um, I'd always been experimental.

I'd go to school, my mum didn't let me wear makeup, but I would literally leave 15 minutes early and put a full face of makeup on to school. Impressive. Did you use the dream up mousse? No. Oh, that was my controversial. I didn't use that. I did foundation use. Uh, no.

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I was ahead of my time. You were. Because I was not. I didn't wear any of that. I love to smokey eye. I loved, like, I know I was, like, full on Middle Eastern vibes. I remember these pictures. You like the big whoop as well. I love to big hoop. Yeah. We can see the vision of where this is going. I had big eye. My favorite thing to wear was of the law tracksuit.

So I had them in every color. And I had these big hoops and big curly hair. Oh, yeah. Your hair's beautiful. It was at that time,

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age just got the better of me. Anyway, so,

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um, it was massive Arab curly hair with big hoops. So really different to everyone else. So anyway, that kind of that is where my love for beauty came from. And I was very artistic at school. That was the only class I actually went to. Every other class I would skip because I was getting bullied so badly, I was like, I don't want to be at school.

I'd literally just not go to school. I'd go into art. So my love for, um, creativity started at school. Um, but being from a middle eastern background, you know, your parents are like, well, no, that's not a profession. You can't be an artist. At the time, I thought I wanted to be an artist. Um, you have to go to university and do a professional, have a professional career, which I did.

Um, and I worked in a city, you know, had some successful career, a successful ten year career. And when I hit 30, sadly, my brother passed away. Yeah. Uh, you know, 27 younger brother. So I was like, right, this is a wake up call. Life's too short. Um. What am I doing in a job that, you know doesn't satisfy me and isn't making me feel happy?

I

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went, I took some time off work, bereavement, and a friend of mine was like, um, you've always wanted to do makeup. This is your opportunity to just give it a try. Like, you know, let's start an Instagram. Uh, just to be clear, you had had your first baby by this point. Yeah. So my daughter was four years old at this point.

Yeah. So this was part of the reason I was kind of started to feel really miserable in my work, um, office job because it was so, you know. I remember one time my daughter was sick, and they pulled me and they said, well, you need to find somebody else to look after her when she's sick because you can't take any time off.

And I just thought, that's ridiculous. Like, I am her mom. She's four years old when she's sick. She needs me. So that was when I really started to, like, reevaluate. Like, is this the right path for me being a mom? And it is hard being a woman in the corporate world. It's gotten easier now, but at the time there was no working from home.

There was none of that. So, you know, that was my opportunity to explore something, um, new when I took time off. And my friend, you know, credit to her, she really pushed me into it. She was like, right, we're starting a website. She helped me start a website. Um, she helped me start an Instagram. And she was just like, just try, like, you've got nothing to lose.

And interesting fact, I, I posted a few photos and I think about a month or two into posting, I was just doing like random people's makeup. Like I got an email from Glow Up, oh, BBC glow up, BBC Glow up. And I was on the.

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I went through the process for the first series and I got to the final 11. They picked ten people. Oh. So I had I thought I was literally it was I'd my bags were packed and everything and I thought, oh my God, I know the disappointment. You would have felt as well. Oh my gosh. It was like I thought this was it. This is it.

Like my moment. This is my moment. It's I, I've literally chosen to do makeup. It's been two months since I've been posting some photos and glow up. Want me to go on their show? And it didn't happen. But I remember saying to the guy, I was like, whether you put me on the show or not, I will be successful. But you know what?

You have to believe that. And you have been honestly. And I remember the guy messaged me a few months later and he was like a few years later and he was like, do you know what had a fair play to you? Because actually, when you said that there was a part of me that thought, fair play, but you know. Yeah, exactly.

You know, this, like, young girl that's like, thinks, you know, she can achieve anything. And you think you do have to have that, like delusional ambition at the start where you think you have to try and keep it throughout, that you have to be so, like, delusional. Be confident in where you can go. Yeah. I don't think that's bad at every successful person you hear talks about it like the self-belief has to be that way.

Absolutely. You have to be delusional about your ability. People think you have to be little bit crazy. You do have to be a bit crazy. Definitely. And. And it's why we get on. We don't actually find each other's dreams crazy. We're just like, fair enough. But if you could do it honestly, you'll be president.

You could do that. This literally it like that's that. That's it's really important to surround yourself with people like that actually. Yeah. I think it's if your friends don't do that to you, then they're not your friends. What's the point? You know. Do you feel like as you got bigger in the industry, you lost friends?

Oh yeah. I would say I have oh yeah. Very few now. Absolutely. And it's not just lost friends. You start to see people's true colors. Mhm.

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You start to see, you know, who actually is happy for you and who isn't. Because people when you start out people like oh my God this is amazing. They, they, you know, they want you to be successful until you're successful. I always say we want to see you do well, but never better. Yeah. And I was talking to someone about this the other day, and I can't you can't blame you for being like that, I get it.

But I do think it's enough for him, for everyone. And I think ultimately that having that energy of not want people to do better is actually a bigger hindrance. Oh my God, I'm very big on helping. I've I don't know, you've actually I've seen you do it. You have like, group chats with our makeup artist. Yeah.

And if you can't do something, you send them working. Yeah. I've from the very start, very early into my career, I'd started a group chat because I felt like the industry was very lonely. Mhm. Um, and there was no one. No one gave me advice. I mean, a few people did, but very it was, it was, I was kind of I was so blind I didn't know where to go, who to turn to.

What, what I there's no community there. So I started a makeup, um, group. Makeup artist group. And I just any makeup artist that I'd come across or any friends or anything like that, people that are DM'd me, um, and I would just be like, join the group. You know, it's a it's it's just for us to all, you know, talk to each other.

Um, you know, sometimes you leave a job, and you and you're so disheartened and you just want someone to talk to you that will understand what it's like. So you can just put it into the group and be like, guys, this happened. Is that normal? And it's so lovely because there's so many people in there that will be like, don't worry about it.

All different parts and times of their career where they're like, no, this is normal or this is how you should handle it, or product recommendations or like you said, um,

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uh, jobs, you know, where we can't do a job, we just put it into the group and we, we exchanged. So I have always been really big on there's enough space for all of us and for me, you know, you if you lose a client, they were never really yours. You know, that's that's how I see it. You know, it's don't get me wrong, it's hard when you build a relationship with a client and you feel like you know that you're their number one, and all of a sudden someone else comes in and sweeps them away.

It's hard and it is upsetting, but at the same time, it's like, well, that was me at one point, you know, I came in and swept this person away, and that person is, you know, unless it's obviously as long as they've done it in the correct way, where they haven't gone behind your back and done anything, what would you call the incorrect way as a as a makeup artist?

Because I know how I would see it from my side. And what is the wrong way to approach a talent? If you just happen to have done a good job and the client likes you and you are now their preferred choice, then you know what? Good on you. Like you've you've earned that that client. And you know, I always try and clap for other makeup artists and I don't and I don't I try not to let that kind of doubt or competition creeping because we are human and it does creep in.

There is some times where it's like, oh, but it's that person better than me. Am I not good enough? And and you have to just remind yourself that, you know, you you can't please everybody. Your style will fit certain people. And, you know, sometimes circumstances This might mean that that person is just better fitted for the job.

Whatever reason that is. So it. I think it's for me. I would never bring another creative down and I don't like to badmouth any other creatives. It's really important for us to like, bring each other up. And I even offer mentoring for like creatives that are coming up in the industry. Um, which I really enjoy.

You know, I do like 1 to 1 lessons with, uh, makeup artist and I, and I offer, like, an ongoing mentorship which

00:27:47.420 — 00:37:20.740
makeup artists find really useful because they, they come out of it feeling like, oh, okay, well, you taught me how to do the makeup. How do I now navigate the next step? Okay. Yeah. You know, what do I do on a shoot? You know, I come back from a shoot. How do I price myself like all these things? Like, how do I behave on set?

Like, what do I say? What do I do? What's the etiquette? All these things that people don't tell you are really important, ongoing. And that's part of something that I would like to grow into as well. You know, my five year plan, ten year plan is to build on that and create, you know, a even bigger community where I can offer, you know, a qualified qualifications for makeup artists, where I can have an academy, which, you know, helps them in the industry because I that's something that I felt like was lacking.

And when I was looking at academies, everything seemed very dated. Yeah. And it was very much all too modern. I've seen a couple of academies where it's a bit like makeup isn't wearing shoes. Yeah, yeah, it's not a bit crazy. Yeah, it's very, very artistic. It's very artistic. And that's fine. If you are going down the editorial route, that's fine.

Um, you know, if you want to do more fashion stuff, they do really appreciate the artistic side of things. But realistically, you know your day to day. They want to they want to look beautiful. Your client wants to look beautiful. You want to be able to do something where they leave and they feel like, wow, this is like an elevated version of myself.

So you have to really figure out what your style is and what route you want to take. Um, something that I didn't know at the start, to be honest. I just kind of did what I was doing, and and the industry kind of found me, if that makes sense. Or my path found me. Um. And I don't like to be boxed either. I don't want to just be, you know, a commercial makeup artist.

I don't want to just do bridal. A lot of people will say, I only do bridal or I only do commercial, I only do fashion. I want to do it all. You know, I can do it all. And it's why would I restrict myself to one avenue when you can. You know, it's so, so much fun. You know, you get to go on an amazing, exotic, um, trip for a bride, or you get to be on a super creative set where you see lots of other creatives, or you go on daytime television and you meet all these incredible people.

Like, people don't realize how early you have to wake up for those days. People, oh, people really think it's glamorous, but it's like a 3:04 a.m. wake up. I mean, that's that in itself. The whole the whole thing looks great, glamorous to most people. You look like I know that glamorous. The whole thing looks glamorous to most people.

You, I, I wake up very often. I mean, two, 3 a.m., 4 a.m.. You're making me tired thinking about it. You know, it's it's it's a graft. You know, yesterday I got home at 1030. So, you know, I've. I'll travel up to Manchester, for example. I did that two days ago just to do one person's makeup and come to come all the way back down.

So it's not it's not like you're it's not an easy job, like you do have to put the work in. Um, and there is a lot, lots of situations where you're, you know, you're having to think of on your feet. You are dragging bags around like your suitcase breaks in the middle of the station like you're, you know, very unfortunate.

You lose a suitcase, you get to a destination. I go, okay, so I was thinking, where did you lose this? Yeah. My suitcase last month got sent to a little island in France, and it was meant to go to Italy, so I had to think on the spot. And what did you do in that scenario? I, um, first of all, reassured my bride and told her, please don't panic.

We will make this work and just made my way. Luckily, there was a Sephora. That is lucky. Very lucky because actually it could have been a lot worse. And I spent eye watering amount of money on some new makeup. So that's why you should have insurance, guys. Um, there's a couple of things I wanted to ask you based on the conversation we've just had.

If you are a new makeup artist and you're sort of venturing out, one of the things you spoke about is it's not everyone. Your style is going to fit everybody. Yeah. If you get a negative feedback, how do you handle that? Because we want to shoot once and someone wasn't 100%. Yeah. Because they were like they were in the scene.

So the makeup was coming off and everyone was like I was like, obviously it's going to come off. You're dipping your head in the sea. Yeah. Of course. How do you do you remember that? Yes. What advice would you give to someone who maybe has had feedback that isn't fully positive, or someone wasn't fully happy, and like to ensure that they carry on in a productive way and they don't really feel down themselves.

I think it can be quite painful for for somebody such a personal. Yeah. It's a job. Yeah. That's a great question, actually, because it's really important to stay levelheaded and open to criticism on set because you are there to do a job, you're there to provide a service. And if your client is not happy, then you have to make the amendments.

You can't take things to heart. You know what you think you know suits the person. They might just not like it. So you have to be able to work under any circumstance if somebody tells you, you know. I've had situations where people have freaked out, you know, had panic attacks and that's and that's just because they aren't happy on how they think they look.

Yeah. They're just not there. Just maybe, you know, for example, I've had, you know, a panic attack on a shoot, you know, a, a quite a well known person. And they just were very insecure with how they felt, and it was nothing to do with the makeup or the hair or the styling, because actually, at one point all things were an issue.

Yeah. Um, it was something that she didn't feel comfortable in herself. And you have to just try and manage that and not take it personally and, you know, calm the situation down, remain calm, don't get defensive. And then eventually you can come to an understanding and hopefully you can work it out and the person's happy.

I've seen, you know, I've been on in situations where, for example, the hair wasn't correct and the hairstylist has really kicked off saying, well, no, you know, you're wasting my time. I've done it how you want it. And it just it really leaves a sour taste. You know, I've been on my makeup. I have cried over criticism.

Yeah. And I think that I find that really uncomfortable. Yeah, it is uncomfortable. And and I think that's very unprofessional on the creative person's side because it's not It's not personal. Yeah, it is just business. It's the same thing. It's business. Someone's paying for a service, and they deserve a good service, right?

So you have to be able to do it. And if you do it and actually, they're still not happy, and you feel like you've reached the end of the road and you just can't make them happy, you just have to apologize. Take it on the chin and learn from the experience. Have you ever seen a horror show of someone really kicking off or really going terribly?

Yeah. Or heard a story like it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've had I've seen situations where it's gone terribly bad and, you know, it's you're justifying, um, I mean, I've never paid for someone to do hair and makeup. And then I said, that's not quite right. Yeah. Because only also some people do forget because I only know from the other side.

And some people might not know this, but I want what I want it to be my bias. I remember it wasn't for me. Um, but it can look different on camera. And when the lighting shines, like we like, even when we're on tour. Um, recently we was like, um. Leo Grace's makeup artist was put on stage. Make sure the lights.

Because every venue's lighting is slightly different. Yeah. Yeah. So you can look really washed out. Yeah. And on camera TV, all those thing happens a lot. You have to be also confident enough to say, oh, guys, I just need to fix something. You know, you're better off saying, can I pull her or can I jump in?

Add a bit of bronzer or put a bit of powder or whatever it is to fix it, rather than saying, oh my God, I'm too scared to say anything. I'm just going to let her sit there and then they'll look back afterwards and they're like, oh God, she looks really pale. Why didn't they quite say anything? So you have to be able to, um, rectify things, and things go wrong all the time.

You know, this, you know, just being a woman, you do your makeup one day, it looks great, the next day it doesn't. You know, it's the same process. It's the same thing for me as like a one. Wings up here, one down here. This is it. Like we have good and bad days. All of us. We're only human. You just have to be able to work under pressure and problem solve.

Problem solve is a really important skill to have as a makeup artist. And just try and understand before all of this happens. Actually, the best thing to do is try and understand what the client wants because that you will avoid a lot of, you know,

00:37:21.980 — 00:39:30.120
problems. If you do that, if you if you ask a lot of questions, you know, what's your style? Do you wear a lot of makeup? Because that's a big indication to whether they're going to be shocked. If you put too much on or whether they won't like it, if you don't put enough on. But, you know, for example, we were talking about so you did my makeup for the MTA and I came in quite early and I was quite nervous it wouldn't last.

And you obviously have to go heavier because it needs to last for 8 to 10 hours. Yeah. Yeah. So it's always going to feel a bit heavier. But also, I think I'd be really upset if I paid a makeup artist. It looks like. Yeah. Natural. Well, this is it. Because. Because you are used to wearing makeup, right? But then you just slap it on.

But I think a lot of people. Well, there's not a lot of people. It's just what your style preference. You know, if if somebody doesn't wear makeup on a daily basis. If you put more than what they're used to, they will also feel a little bit shocked. So you have to understand what someone's threshold is and what they're comfortable with and talk them through the process as well.

You know, if you are going to put a little bit more on than what they're used to. Tell them why you're doing that. You know, communicate. Communicate. Say, you know, it's a long day. It might feel a little bit heavier now. But by the end of the day, it won't be. Or if someone says the opposite, like, I like really big lashes.

Something I hate doing. then you I, I would say, look, it's too heavy for your eyes. Um, you know, it won't photograph well. Tell them the reasons why you advise against it. If they still are adamant that's what they want, then go for it. That's what they want. You know, they're the client at the end of the day.

So you can give your professional opinion, but you also need to really work with the client and understand their do's and don'ts, what they love and what they don't love. Do they have oily skin? Do they have dry skin? Do they, um, like to be bronzed? Do they like to be pale, like all these things? And then that will then save you a lot of problems at the end.

I think a lot of people as well don't like to show,

00:39:31.440 — 00:44:57.040
um, what they've done till the end. And I get that can be nerve wracking. I don't I don't really enjoy when someone's criticizing every step of the way because there's the process. There's a process, and it does look crazy halfway through. You know, it doesn't look like what it's going to look like at the end.

But if someone is adamant they want to see the process, let them see the process and talk them through it. Just say, you know, give it, give it some time, it will come together. So those are things that can help, um, you avoid problems, I would say. Okay. That's great advice. I think a lot of people find that useful.

I think another subject for me that's really important to talk to you about, okay, is why is it nervous? I'm scared. No. Is I and I think a lot of women will understand it or will sympathize with or want advice on. Is being a working mom and the fact that, you know, to the outside you do travel a lot. And the importance of if you're married, um, but you don't have to be married.

But in terms of having a good support system around you, and I know me and you, when we went to Egypt, we had a really great conversation about the importance of finding a partner who supports you. And if you know when I remember when I like when I was single, I was a proper go getter. But when you're with the right person, you can still have that.

You see the difference, don't you? Yeah. And if you're with the wrong person, you can also feel a bit like, yeah, I think picking a life partner is probably one of the most important things you'll do. Um, and luckily, I mean, sometimes it's it is luck, to be honest with you, because you did very well. To be fair, Max is great.

He's great. He's really supportive of what I do. He's equally as ambitious as me, if not more. He's very driven and dedicated and he is my biggest supporter. And that really helps me thrive in what I'm doing. Because actually having two children, it's not easy. I travel, you know, this year I've done 12 trips already, so that does that's not easy.

You know, I've also got support from family and stuff as well. But my main support system is my partner and that is really helpful. If you are a working mum and you're trying to to make to to get that balance right. You're never going to get the balance right. How about you call him your teammate? Yeah. Yeah.

We I really thought that. Yeah. And I actually made her record a two minute voice note on my phone so I could listen back should I ever want to listen to it again. Yeah. She asked me. Hannah asked me, what's your favorite thing about your relationship? And I said, we're a team. Yeah, we're a team. We're best friends, but also a team.

You know, like in a moment of crisis, we both just snap into, like. Like solve. Let's solve this. It's. There's never panic. It's always like, right, how are we going to solve this? There's never like, oh my God, we can't do this. It's always like, what's the action plan? And you know, we've been together 17 years, so there's been ups and downs in both of our careers, you know.

and it's never been a thing of, well, you're not doing well. I'm doing better than you or, you know, it's always been. If you're down, I'll help you. If you're if you're up, let's celebrate it. And that's really important to be able to not feel intimidated by your partner's success. And you know, he's had a very successful career and has always had a successful career.

And he's never put me down when I'm trying to find my feet. It's always been a thing of, you could do it go off, you know, try your best. And and you know, now that I am, you know, where I want to be or nearly there. He's also been like, amazing. I had no doubt, blah, blah blah and and funny actually, when I go to him with like if I'm upset about something at work or something that's happened, he really like, like wakes me back up.

He's like, come on. Like, you're stronger than this. Like, don't. This is just one step back that's going to make you go even further. So it's interesting because, well, you do. What matters to you is what you did to me. Yeah. When I've gone through problems. Yeah. So it's interesting to hear that. Who does that for you?

Yeah, but you do that for me as well. And that's. That's what I is. That's what I wanted to say. I wanted to say actually, you know, we might not have that in a partner, but we can find that in friends. Yeah, we can find that in, you know, colleagues. We can find that in people around us that are inspiring and that have that, you know, build each other up mentality and surround yourself with people like that because it's really important.

When I started, I went to a few people and, and I asked, do you think I should do this? And some people said to me like, oh my God, no, like, you've got a good job. What? Yeah. And I get, I get it. I remember when I started. Yeah. Actually, um, my, my parents weren't really for me starting my own business, which sounds quite surprising, but they were.

It was so uncertain and no one knew that social media would make money. So, yeah, I do understand that. And it does feel hurtful when the people you who care about the most don't support you. I don't think it's it's not so much. I don't see it as they don't support you. I see it as they have limiting beliefs and they can't see your vision.

And they, they

00:44:58.200 — 00:49:53.240
their ceiling. Is cap different to your ceiling? I don't believe that you should ever have a ceiling. No, exactly that. But that we immune. You say that all the time, I don't think. I mean, you have this. We said this like delusion. Me and you in Egypt. We've sat there sun babe. And I was like, there's nothing I can't do.

And you're like, me too. Yeah. And we just said the same. There's anything we put our mind to, we will achieve, I think in life, anything that you want, it's achievable if you put your mind to it and you're willing to do the work. If you're willing to do the work, you have to put the work in. It's not you don't.

You know, you don't sit there and just be like, well, it's going to come to me. Nothing comes to you. Yeah. You professed wrong. Yeah, I know people get this whole manifesting thing completely wrong. It's self-belief and manifesting is two different things. Like you can have self-belief, but you also need to put the work in.

You can't just sit down and write. I'm going to be a millionaire and just sit and wait for it because it's not going to come to you. You know, when people say that one day they woke up and they had a check through the post? No, but you did, you know. Or did you put in the lottery ticket? And that's where it came from, because you did do something to get it exactly that you have to do.

You have to put the work in. And, you know, there's so many times where you're like, I can't do this anymore. Um, you know, this is too much, this is too stressful, and you have to reset, like, every time something bad happens to me, I say to myself, uh, this is a reset. You're clearing out something old to make space for something new.

And that's the way you have to see it. Trimming the fat? Yeah, trimming the fat. Whatever it is, whatever you need to keep. Keep you motivated. That's what you need to do. And one point I'd say actually as a creative, it's really important to find your own style and go with it. Yeah. Don't let trends or outside noise influence what you're doing because it's very, very easy to see.

Oh, but this creative is doing this and it's really working for them. What works for them might not work for you, you know? Um, so I read this somewhere before and I've always stopped by it. I won't ever take advice from someone who I don't think is doing better than me, because usually the advice I don't think is is either limiting or a bit detrimental to the end goal.

And I think anyone I don't often just give out advice unless people ask me for it, because I also think my perspective is always going to be different. Yeah. And I think that's in every industry. Like, I don't just sit there willingly go, oh, you should be doing this. You should be doing this. I don't believe in that.

Obviously, my job is quite like that. Yeah. So people do get my advice without asking in terms of because we're one team. But in terms of other sides and I do, I do feel the same with what your job. Because I've heard things people said to you before and I can just see you're just like, blank out the noise. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I think, you know what your, your goal is. And I do listen to people's opinions because I think ignorance is not a good thing. And the opinions are different to advice though. Exactly. And I think you, you know, you're very good at listening to different opinions and actually you pick what you want and what you don't want.

Like, and that's, that's the sign of somebody that wants to grow. Because if you're someone that's like boxed in and it's like my way or the highway, you're never going to grow because actually you can learn a bit from so many people around you and that helps. Um, what what does it help? Is comparing yourself on to people on social media of joy?

Exactly. And I say that's everybody. And everyone is on social media because like you said, you promote your own business that way. Yeah. I think honestly the the best advice always comes from the people who care about you the most anyway. Yeah. And I think, you know, I have a very select few people that I do actually listen to.

You're right. I do pick and choose what I want to listen to and I take everything. You are open to it, which is really good. It's come with time, though. I wasn't always. Yeah, I'm actually with you. I've always been very open, I think. Yes, but if I like, you know, I think I think you select what you want to, to to take on board, but you still listen.

Yeah, I listen to it. And I think I always think if I can um, my partner always says to me, are you from a place of fact? Yeah. And I always try and think of that now. So I think if, like if there's three people telling me the same thing, the fact is that I'm outvoted. So there must be something wrong with the way I'm thinking.

So you have to think like that. Oh, yeah. But then there's some things I think people are just being artists for no reason at all. Yeah, so I won't take you on board. Fair enough. And I think when it comes to your business, for example, with you, you know exactly what fits right and what your brand is. I feel the same about mine.

So I feel like really dead set on it. What would you say? The top three qualities that are the most important for you in having a partner, especially as a mum in a working world for a partner. The most important thing is, um, this is for you. This is obviously your own. Yeah. Someone that supports you. Yeah.

Um.

00:49:54.800 — 00:53:46.400
Someone you can have fun with. Because it's not just all, you know, serious. You. You and Max have fun. We do have fun. Yeah. I think it's important for them to be a best friend. And someone that aligns with your values is really important. Yeah, because if you are on two different, like, paths and you know this person believes something completely different to you, then it won't work.

So supportive, fun and same values. Okay, I'm going to ask you one last question. Okay. For anyone starting out, what is the top three bits of advice you would give to really strive to their key goals? So for example, if someone wants to go into say we'll say to TV, well, that's where you went into, how do you separate from doing like the free work and building yourself up your portfolio?

It's getting really noticed by bigger clients, celebrities, big brands. What kind of advice would you give? So three key bits of advice I would say don't turn down anything. You'd want to put yourself out there at the start. You want to try everything out and try and figure out what what you enjoy and what you don't enjoy.

And experience is really important. So assist people you know, find people that assist. Assisting is is easier said than done because actually not everybody is willing to take assistance on. So if you can't find a system work, then work on your craft and show it to the world because someone will notice it at some point and say, I really like that, um, come and help me.

But until they can see, um, what you're capable of, you know, they're going off a blank canvas. I've had so many people ask me to to assist, but, you know, I'll get a DM and they just say, they'll just say, you know, can you assist? Can I assist you? But there's nothing there to show me what they can do or not know information about them.

So really work on trying to show what you're capable of or practice with friends. Practice or do test shoots. Test shoots really helped me out at the start of my career. Um, you do a lot of test shoots of us when we were first starting as an agency as well, and that's one of the things that actually helped me crack the crack the industry.

One of my first test shoots was with you, and we did. Was it Harley Brash? It was Harley because she looked fantastic. I remember that shit we did for her. Yeah, I remember that picture because you used it a lot. So I know that was one of the it was one of my favorite looks. And actually one of the Tory girls saw it and she booked me and I started then working with her quite a lot.

And then we went on to, I went on to doing loads of the Tory people Love Islanders. TV personalities, you know, singers like it's it kind of spiraled from there. Yes. The snowball effect. It snowballed. And then I went on to, you know, so I remember I actually got my first e-comm shoot with Sheen. I remember that.

Yeah. And they were really small brand. They literally it was a one woman that came over from China, and she came to the UK and she wanted to start this brand called Cian. Right. Or bring the brand over from China. It was literally me. The woman who's, by the way, head of, uh. I know who she's got. The bob. Yes, I know who she is.

Yeah, I worked with her when we did a collection. Lovely. Yeah. So it was me. Her a photographer and a stylist. And the model just literally rented out a studio. And I was doing it quite often. And I think people then saw what I could do on models. And then that kind of spiraled into me working with, you know,

00:53:47.440 — 00:56:15.650
Levi's PLT, you know, the for campaign L'Oreal. Um. Oh gosh. House of CB club L I've done, you know, all the major next all the major high street um brands online. So it it really helped me kickstart my career into going into, um, that sort of commercial world and building relationships with people in the industry.

So it's really important to just kind of put yourself out there and show what you're capable of doing and just be a people's person. It's really important because these people, you're going to be spending a lot of time in very close proximity. May I add like they're literally right there and they they breathe on you.

Yeah. Exactly that. I always have a mint, by the way. Good tip. Oh, no. It's good. And. Yeah, yeah, when I'm doing someone's makeup just because it's so close and don't eat garlic. The night before. I remember someone did my makeup years ago, and I was like, did you have a guard last night? She was like, oh, God, I washed my hands a million times.

I was thinking, risky move because it takes a long time to get that smell off. God. Yeah. No, I would never do that. Um, I think you have to be just a people's person because they're also very vulnerable. No makeup, and they're trusting you to make them feel their very best. So you want to be a people's person and make them feel comfortable.

Um, you know, I work on some amazing weddings. Some, like luxury, you know, incredible destination weddings where you're literally there from the crack of dawn. You're, you know, in, in the heat. You have to be able to adapt to different situations. You have to be able to, uh, calm the bride down before.

So there's so many situations you have to put yourself in, but be adaptable. Um, don't say no to anything and experiment, basically. Amazing. That's great advice. Thank you. And I really hope whoever watching this video was inspired because you are incredible. Thank you. And you've really come such a long way.

Like you're such a success story to yourself and your family. So congrats. Thank you so much. So are you. Thanks my queen. Oh. Love you. Love you. I hope you liked this episode and if you did, please like and subscribe. Thank you so much for watching this episode of manners. If you loved watching, please make sure you're following us so you can receive updates on our next episode.

I'll see you next week.