00:00:02.60
Talal K
um

00:00:05.98
Talal K
Okay, are you ready?

00:00:07.63
alexei sayle
yeah

00:00:09.53
Talal K
It's episode 104.

00:00:14.35
Talal K
And we're rolling.

00:00:18.83
alexei sayle
uh hi everybody welcome to episode 104 of the alexis l podcast and i thought we might try and but pretend we're a real podcast today by talking about two big news stories of the week. I've got my guests here, um Emily Maitlis and ah Rally Car Driver. um

00:00:38.63
Talal K
Hello.

00:00:41.04
alexei sayle
I'm Rally Car Driver. and I don't know. can't even think of a Rally Car Driver now.

00:00:45.95
Talal K
It's Adam Maycock.

00:00:46.06
alexei sayle
but

00:00:48.37
alexei sayle
Is that a Maitlis really a Rally Car Driver?

00:00:51.88
Talal K
Hello.

00:00:53.02
alexei sayle
All right.

00:00:54.16
Talal K
Hi.

00:00:54.61
alexei sayle
i

00:00:55.63
Talal K
Pleasure.

00:00:57.61
alexei sayle
so uh we're going to be discussing two big news stories of the week one is uh the um got all the people on the Sky News and BBC News very excited, was Starmer's briefing against West Streeting and the the the um the the the defenestration of Tim Davey and Deborah Turness from the BBC. I've actually become almost bored. Well, even when I'm talking about it, I'm bored with it, really. but ah

00:01:34.26
Talal K
Buckle up listeners.

00:01:35.13
alexei sayle
yeah you're in for in for a really boring one 104 it's so like a nowhere number isn't it really it's a well okay so Tim Davey first well we'll start that fucks me up you know there's a in the latest last series of Sandwich Biles a bit where Tim Davey comes in and tells me how great I am so that's

00:01:40.27
Talal K
Oh.

00:01:55.44
Talal K
Oh

00:01:55.65
alexei sayle
I'm the real victim in this. Now he's gone. Um, I mean, I i mean, fingers are pointing at this fucking shit bag called Robbie Gibb, who's, uh, uh, there's a radical driver just taking off on his motorboat there.

00:02:04.90
Talal K
yeah.

00:02:12.12
Talal K
Yeah.

00:02:12.76
alexei sayle
Um,

00:02:12.94
Talal K
Yeah. Yeah.

00:02:14.42
alexei sayle
um

00:02:14.76
Talal K
Gib is a massive Zionist, isn't he?

00:02:16.78
alexei sayle
Yes, he was he was listed, yeah.

00:02:16.92
Talal K
He's a fully in the pocket of the

00:02:20.14
alexei sayle
I mean, you think you go you you think we're monomaniacs because we think everything is about Israel. but Everything think is about Israel. I mean, Robbie Gibb was listed as sole owner of the Jewish Chronicle for years, even though he didn't really own It was owned by some shadowy Gang Zionists, but I mean, and there the Jewish Chronicle, I mean, I think it, you know, is listed as having the most complaints about it, except there any publication, except the Daily Telegraph. The Jewish Chronicle comes out once a week, whereas the Telegraph is out seven days a week.

00:02:53.83
alexei sayle
um It was a big driver of the the Jeremy Corbyn false allegations, anti-Semitism smear campaign.

00:03:03.26
Talal K
Uh-huh.

00:03:03.33
alexei sayle
robbie gibb was you know at the center of that really and it also makes me laugh you know that there's all this shit about um a panorama documentary documentary think done in 2019 by john ware called in the room to the election corbyn's uh election 2019 called is labor anti-semitic which is absolutely um paul holden's book the fraud is very good

00:03:03.48
Talal K
Yeah.

00:03:29.16
alexei sayle
absolutely full of distortions and misrepresentations i mean just just hundreds and hundreds of them and nobody made a fuck well people on the left did but they weren't listened to nobody made a fucking fuss about that piece of uh dishonest garbage so um yeah exactly you know

00:03:32.14
Talal K
yeah

00:03:48.00
Talal K
Yeah, who got sued over that? He was also ah conservative MP. And he worked for Theresa May as

00:04:00.05
alexei sayle
He wasn't an MP, he was a speechwriter and advisor.

00:04:03.24
Talal K
Director of Communications for Theresa May.

00:04:04.47
alexei sayle
The director of communications, yeah, yeah.

00:04:06.42
Talal K
um And that was ah during the the peak of the Corbyn anti-Semitism, Zibim, Zibim smearing.

00:04:07.69
alexei sayle
And...

00:04:12.47
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. He's a... He's a thoroughly...

00:04:17.86
Talal K
Oh, his brother. His brother was a Tory MP for Bognor Regis.

00:04:21.81
alexei sayle
Okay, I didn't know that.

00:04:22.61
Talal K
Nick Gibb.

00:04:24.43
alexei sayle
um And also this advisor, Michael Prescott, is a very close friend Robbie Gipp, the one who reports one who leaked his report to the...

00:04:37.29
alexei sayle
ah To the Telegraph about, um about ah you know and circle you know, the pro-Hamas aspects of BBC Arabic, which I'm sure are not true.

00:04:52.01
alexei sayle
And the Trump documentary, the editing that. And, you know, just... And so and there's a very good piece, actually, by Lewis Goodall.

00:04:59.71
Talal K
Well, explain some of this stuff.

00:04:59.85
alexei sayle
is but What do you want me to say?

00:05:02.18
Talal K
So what's what's ah BBC Arabic? i heard I didn't think i ah heard about BBC Arabic. They were accused, there have been complaints that, I didn't hear that pro-Hammus, but just that their reporting was slanted towards sympathizing for Palestine, right?

00:05:14.70
alexei sayle
No, no, sorry. yeah

00:05:20.53
alexei sayle
Yeah, well, I would say what's wrong with that, but I...

00:05:24.89
Talal K
Well, you just state the facts and it would automatically do that, right?

00:05:26.45
alexei sayle
Yeah, yes, yes, exactly. so I'm sure it's partly, ah and you know, i mean, all this is about ah an attempt to make the BBC, I mean, the the BBC is not left wing, it's it's but it's it's not even neutral, it's ah it's ah an organisation, it's news coverage that reflects replicates the preoccupations of the state really and it's not it's never been left-wing and it's nonsense but even that letter you know like you say if you occasionally relay the facts about gaza or israel then people will naturally be sympathetic towards palestine because the facts are so horrible

00:06:06.58
alexei sayle
And what these people want is for not even the facts to be shared, really, you know, and in in a neutral kind of way. I think Tim Davie, I know there's a good piece by Lewis Goodall, I think a long thread on Twitter or somewhere, just saying he has no sympathy with Tim Davie, really. he he didn't stand up to He didn't stand up to the...

00:06:32.29
alexei sayle
to the force of the right-wing press, really. I think he capitulated to them. um You know, I mean, a sort of a right-wing version of, you know, the apologise and move on on strategy that Corbyn tried to employ.

00:06:46.21
alexei sayle
ah ah And and the only way to the only way ever to deal with these bullies is to stand up to them, which I think Tim Davies kind of failed to do.

00:06:56.63
alexei sayle
don't know. Some people I know who worked with him said he was all right, really, he was nice. But... um You know, it's... ah

00:07:04.98
Talal K
Well, you met him. he He was nice to you, wasn't he, on your show?

00:07:08.94
alexei sayle
yeah Yeah, he was.

00:07:11.27
Talal K
and what was this Trump documentary, what happened there?

00:07:11.28
alexei sayle
He told me... ah it was a trunk It was made by an independent, so it wasn't... People say it's made by the BBC, but it wasn't. It was made by an independent. um it was an It was a... a um a documentary about, you know, suggesting that Trump inflamed the insurrection, the storming of the Capitol on the 6th of January, 2000, whenever it was, 2000, when he lost the election, um which, you know, was...

00:07:42.55
alexei sayle
well but um indubitably true he did i mean you know claimed that the election was stolen and stuff like that but they did it was quite a dodgy edit really i think that they they they edited two bits of his speech which were actually 45 minutes apart really which came gave the impression that he'd urged his followers to go down to the capitol building and uh and fight ah which you know so it was it was a bit of a a shunky kind of edit but you know

00:08:17.68
alexei sayle
I mean, the ah the essential the essential thrust of the documentary that Trump um encouraged the storming of the Capitol, I think, is indisputable. So there you go. But it's, ah it's ah you know, it's a... I mean, it's ah it's a it's another kind of step on the the road to...

00:08:44.98
alexei sayle
Darkness, really, I think, unless unless's the BBC somehow appoints somebody stronger. And and Robbie Gibbs, I mean, the Labour government had an opportunity to get rid of Robbie Gibbs when they came to power.

00:08:57.76
alexei sayle
They didn't for their own perverted reasons, sacking them because they agree with, you know, Starman and Morgan McSweeney and so on, agree with... what he's trying to do with his Zionist ultra-capitalist agenda, really. So fucking Lisa Nandy, Jesus Christ, what a fucking piece of shit she is. um Culture secretary.

00:09:21.21
alexei sayle
What do you mean?

00:09:24.11
Talal K
Are the BBC really that... um Have they really got that limited a choice? Like, can they...

00:09:31.66
alexei sayle
what what you mean

00:09:32.79
Talal K
Like... Is there only three people they can choose from as Director General? Don't they have a wide... Do they have to go for the one... someone who used to own a very opinionated paper, used to literally work for the Tory party to be the head of this non-bias.

00:09:48.59
alexei sayle
Robbie Gibb, he was just, well, he was just one of the members of the ah the of the board, really.

00:09:49.73
Talal K
Yeah.

00:09:53.14
alexei sayle
I know somebody member of the board.

00:09:55.47
Talal K
Does it have to be someone who's a member of the board?

00:09:55.56
alexei sayle
um

00:09:58.23
alexei sayle
Well, it's a, you know, that they choose establishment figures because it's an establishment organisation, but no, I mean, Robbie Gibb was appointed by Boris Johnson. It was a nakedly political appointment, and if the Labour government mean Labour government is no different to Boris Johnson so why would they change things really you know it's and they I mean I think that I think the BBC exists you know in a very small geographical and intellectual space really it's a it's you know people who by and large all think the same I don't know what the proportion is of its staff who've been to public school I'm sure it's much higher than the

00:10:42.33
alexei sayle
certainly at the senior levels it's much higher than the uh the national average would be you know they're know they all know each other they all circulate in the same same cocktail parties uh and um you know it's it's it's it's incapable of um really reaching outside

00:11:12.57
alexei sayle
You know, it's very it is very small. mean, like Sami Ashar, head of the board, is actually, the brother I think, the half-brother or step of Mohit, who's head of the BBC, for example. So there's actually Radio 4, head of Radio 4, and somebody who I'd like and has been very good to me.

00:11:28.46
alexei sayle
But, you know, it's a very that's very small, that you know... that the head of the board of the BBC and the head Radio 4 come from the same family. ah It's just a tiny, tiny little world that they all inhabit, really. That's so what that's why they also get excited about something like this thing with Starmer's people briefing against West Street, because it's essentially gossip about their village, you know, their little little hamlet that they live in, really.

00:12:00.16
alexei sayle
And that's why they they love it, really, matters in a sense it matters less to the rest of us well um ah yeah yeah

00:12:07.61
Talal K
We'll get to Starmer in a bit, but I just found this on Wikipedia. In his youth, Robbie Gibb and his brother Nick were recruited and trained by the National Alliance of Russian Solidarists.

00:12:22.76
Talal K
Solidarists?

00:12:24.31
alexei sayle
all right

00:12:25.34
Talal K
um A right-wing Russian anti-communist organization. They acted as couriers and pretended to be tourists in Moscow in order to smuggle letters from dissidents out of Russia.

00:12:37.47
Talal K
That's a

00:12:39.84
alexei sayle
Really? I mean, I wouldn't say trust Wikipedia, but, you know, I guess.

00:12:43.46
Talal K
little tidbit. And that's from Kirstie Buchanan's Telegraph article, The Senior Tories with Secret Soviet Past.

00:12:53.45
alexei sayle
sorry Okay. yeah Well, there you go. Yeah. Yeah.

00:13:00.69
Talal K
That's, they were, that's like, that would have been your enemy, right? When you were kids, you would have been enemies on the playground.

00:13:07.77
alexei sayle
but Yes, although, you know, I i hold no torch with the Soviet Union, really.

00:13:12.88
Talal K
No. That

00:13:13.77
alexei sayle
But, um yeah. ah

00:13:17.29
Talal K
was in 1985, he was 21. Gibbs. what this?

00:13:22.76
alexei sayle
Good for him.

00:13:24.33
Talal K
gib so what is this but ah So that's a big shake-up in the BBC. Who else was it that was, who's been turfed?

00:13:33.44
alexei sayle
Deborah Tannes, the head of news.

00:13:34.53
Talal K
Editor of the news, right?

00:13:36.05
alexei sayle
Yeah, I mean, they both get big payoffs, so they just... They probably couldn't be arsed hanging around for more studders.

00:13:41.34
Talal K
Oh, it's an that a retirement for them, really. they They'll be sorted.

00:13:44.24
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. um

00:13:46.77
Talal K
um Is it an embarrassment for the BBC? This is obviously big.

00:13:51.18
alexei sayle
Well, I think...

00:13:51.68
Talal K
BBC is always has always been on really shaky ground in terms of public

00:13:51.86
alexei sayle
parents

00:13:57.25
Talal K
ah public um opinion, you know, and and

00:14:01.65
alexei sayle
yeah I don't know what the figures are. I mean, people used to trust. ah I tell this story sometimes, um you know, when I'm doing interviews and or, you know, book readings about when we did stuff.

00:14:16.98
alexei sayle
um I think in the first series there was a sketch called Snow White and the Seventh Samurai, which ends with Snow White.

00:14:24.73
Talal K
Yeah, i remember this one, actually.

00:14:25.38
alexei sayle
had Yeah. Yeah.

00:14:26.09
Talal K
This is one of the ones I've seen, yeah.

00:14:27.75
alexei sayle
Yeah, you know. And um after it went out, the Disney organization issued a written, so me and Marcus, the producer, and David Nunzer, the two other writers, went to see the BBC lawyer, and I was expecting her to be all kind of...

00:14:44.40
alexei sayle
kind of equivocal and you know ipso facto pro bono you too underneath the law pax for obiscom uh and the act of 18 but in fact she just said fuck disney we're the bbc uh you know they're always issuing writs fuck them you know

00:15:03.08
Talal K
Mm-hmm.

00:15:03.93
alexei sayle
And, you know, that over the years, that was the attitude the BBC had. We're this great national institution and we, you know, dictate the terms on which we exist. And the BBC, I mean, I've worked the since about 1980, suppose. that's what, 45 years ago.

00:15:23.32
alexei sayle
is nine but nineteen eighty i suppose so that's what forty five years although I've never had staff pass I've always been I've always had to argue with some commissioners trying get in the fucking building talked about this before but um ah you know it was a magnificent organization when I joined it I mean shot through with misogyny and racism so you know yeah but then everything was um even the communist party so I mean

00:15:37.25
Talal K
Yeah.

00:15:47.03
Talal K
Magnificent.

00:15:54.08
alexei sayle
Putting that aside, but it had, you know, these, if you are the if you had an idea for a sketch that required an elephant, you know, they'd probably have one in stock. they You know, they'd just go to the elephant department and get you a, well done, and get you an elephant, you know, which would be there.

00:16:11.07
alexei sayle
The next day, i mean, and the makeup, which trained all the great makeup artists for the film industry, the BBC Makeup, the wigs, the wig wi store, famous wig store.

00:16:22.40
alexei sayle
ah You know, they just had... There was this big... And then slowly over time, starting with John Baird, all that stuff was sold off, and so the BBC became diminished, really, and...

00:16:34.54
Talal K
ye

00:16:40.42
alexei sayle
I mean, I suppose, you know, and then, and and i mean I mean, it's also, I mean, i mean i find people in the news really fucking pricks anyway, really, that they are self-important by and large and full of themselves. So I don't have that much sympathy for, you know, I think the real real talent lay in and light entertainment and comedy and drama, really, and the news were always...

00:17:05.83
alexei sayle
kind of full of themselves but people did you know it was it kind of more or less told you the truth i think you know um and from a centrist point of view and i know obviously all that's been whittled away over the years and it's just that it it's just partly the slide into whatever it is we live in now really um I mean, the funding model is is a problem, I suppose, now, that licence for you. really

00:17:36.63
alexei sayle
I remember seeing an article, I mean, something like, you know, 30% of the women in in women's prisons in Scotland were there for not paying their TV licence.

00:17:46.87
Talal K
Holy shit.

00:17:47.48
alexei sayle
They

00:17:49.29
Talal K
You can go to prison for that?

00:17:51.08
alexei sayle
used to, yeah, they used to put people in prison, particularly women, for not paying their TV licence, yeah.

00:17:55.88
Talal K
Jesus.

00:17:57.01
alexei sayle
ah no I know, I know what they do now, but it's, you know, it's just...

00:18:02.75
alexei sayle
You know, the the world is, you know, i mean, The world is fracturing, isn't it? You don't get your news from a single monolithic news source anymore. And obviously they're trying to control, again, it's all about Israel.

00:18:17.46
alexei sayle
They're trying to control, you know, TikTok being bought by Larry Ellison, who's a Zionist fanatic and also bought CBS and installed another Zionist fanatic as their head.

00:18:30.76
alexei sayle
And Barry Weiss. And, you know what you know, all the fucking... all the um ah the big meta, all those you know really censoring pro-Palestinian voices, which ah all of which I hope won't work. But, i ah you know, it it I mean, this the then the hobbling of the BBC is all part of that process, really, the gradual slide into.

00:18:59.42
alexei sayle
Autocracy, I mean...

00:18:59.77
Talal K
you you could most You could most certainly say Israel is a is a brilliant litmus test to see if anyone is a decent person or not.

00:19:08.13
alexei sayle
Yes, it's it's a very good... it's absolutely You're absolutely right, yeah.

00:19:11.50
Talal K
ah ah So that goes you know that does enough, but in a way it is also all about Israel because it's just such an important part of the world and there's a reason why it's these people are fighting tooth and nail completely demoralizing themselves in order to maintain power of the region

00:19:30.97
alexei sayle
Yeah, it is the great moral question of our of our age, really. You know, which side you stand on that. and

00:19:40.39
Talal K
you know that there's been occu you know that palestine has been colonized off and on for forever it's never like but it's But the people of Palestine have always been there and they're genetically linked to every people who's always been there.

00:19:57.55
Talal K
And they've never suffered in the way that we've seen today. That's why it's such a fucking big deal. And that's why everyone keeps fucking going on about it.

00:20:04.00
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:06.55
Talal K
So I don't care if anyone's getting bored of hearing about it. Like, fuck you.

00:20:09.66
alexei sayle
No. It's a genocide. Yeah, yeah.

00:20:12.78
Talal K
It's important.

00:20:14.58
alexei sayle
Yeah, it's...

00:20:14.78
Talal K
It matters.

00:20:15.70
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:16.18
Talal K
Fuck off. You know, and um I am getting a bit sick of it.

00:20:18.28
alexei sayle
It's the most important.

00:20:20.63
Talal K
Why you keep talking about Palestine? Because it matters, dickhead.

00:20:23.94
alexei sayle
No, you keep talking about the Holocaust. Yeah, it's... ah Absolutely. I agree. You're absolutely right. And yes, it's a good barometer of... of somebody's decency, I think, is how they stand on that issue.

00:20:40.75
alexei sayle
Which, then we're talking about moral failings, brings us to the Labour Party and Starmer and various shitbags around him ahcha briefing against West Streeting.

00:20:52.88
Talal K
This I have nothing, and I don't know anything about. I also know this, I heard that there's been like a revolt against Starmer, but I don't know what this briefing against West Streeting means.

00:21:01.38
alexei sayle
Well, I think

00:21:04.39
Talal K
I don't know what that means.

00:21:04.56
alexei sayle
I think they were trying to, i think West Street in as plant would like to be leader of Labour Party and Prime Minister. ah ah And, you know, Starmer's ratings are so low and he's so useless.

00:21:18.16
alexei sayle
He's so incompetent. ah that, you know, they're trying to, some people late party trying to get rid of him, really, and hope that that will reverse their fortunes.

00:21:32.79
alexei sayle
um I don't think that's the case, really. I think that, ah but I hope that they are, doomed to oblivion really um what will replace them is the problem really uh i don't know whether it's the it's it's the your party conference congress isn't it pretty soon 29th and the 30th and we'll see how that turns out really it's uh it's not been a particularly edifying spectacle so far but we will see but obviously zach you know

00:21:54.12
Talal K
Yes. In Liverpool.

00:22:04.82
Talal K
Yeah, easy to say. yeah that they've become pretty irrelevant with the charisma and the dominance of Zach Polanski on the media on every almost every show, be it be it news, comedy panel.

00:22:20.16
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:22:22.54
Talal K
he's He's there being pretty fucking flawless and charismatic and funny and quick.

00:22:26.74
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, I agree. It

00:22:31.31
Talal K
and well rehearsed and good at improvising and charming and ah gay and Jewish, which gives him points for most people, you know which I mean, it's so hard to argue with him about Zionism when you're actually talking to a Jew and he has a great comeback for anyone who talks about antisemitism to him

00:22:35.83
alexei sayle
is terrific, yeah.

00:22:52.98
alexei sayle
yeah

00:22:56.21
Talal K
I'm starting to see him repeat himself.

00:22:56.25
alexei sayle
yeah

00:22:58.55
Talal K
I don't know. What do you think about that when you see politician on multiple different shows using the same line? I know it's attack i know it's useful, but there's a point where it's like, okay, I've heard this three times now.

00:23:05.94
alexei sayle
yeah yeah I don't know it's I mean most people obviously don't pay really any attention so most people will only hear it once if that really so but it is on that's true yeah

00:23:15.97
Talal K
Not with the social media generation, you will. i've no you know I haven't seen it on TV. I don't watch TV, but I've seen it on my phone.

00:23:22.37
alexei sayle
Right. Right. I don't know what the answer to that is really.

00:23:27.31
Talal K
you I was asking your opinion and then you started giving it and then I cut you off.

00:23:27.41
alexei sayle
whether but It's an interesting... Yeah.

00:23:30.71
Talal K
So... Yeah.

00:23:33.09
alexei sayle
It's just like being on Piers Morgan. Um... I don't know. Yeah, it's an interesting question. I don't know what you do about that, whether you say the same thing, but in slightly different ways every time, or whether you do, you know, i mean, obviously worked in the past, you know, Boris Johnson, you know, is oven ready fucking Brexit deal and

00:23:52.59
Talal K
Yeah.

00:23:53.35
alexei sayle
That sort of line, you know, 20 billion pound black hole. ah You know, I mean, it's it's something. Yeah, maybe a and um i mean ah politician you think is on it should vary their responses, really. I don't know. it's a It's a trade-off between the effectiveness of saying the same thing over and over again and...

00:24:15.95
alexei sayle
know, there's that idea, isn't there, with like a TV advert that you don't really start paying attention to it and until you've you seen it nine times or something, you know. So repeating the same thing is perhaps more effective.

00:24:29.83
alexei sayle
i don't I don't know what the answer to that is, really.

00:24:30.65
Talal K
That's true. That's true.

00:24:32.23
alexei sayle
I don't know. what But it is ah it is something yeah that i I wonder about, really. I mean, and with regards to your... I mean, I would like to see your party, I mean, the people you know, the left.

00:24:43.42
alexei sayle
I mean, particularly, i you know, very keen in this area. and Andrew Feinstein is Feinsteinstein. um You know, I hope that something good will come out of that as well, really. But... um i do think some of the people found in this i've you know i've spent too long in the stinking labor party or in the trade union movement and that's in you know that's kind of made them essentially anti-democratic i think so you know i'd like to see a ah young thrusting organization emerge from the um

00:25:19.76
alexei sayle
your party conference and you know but let's see those dinosaurs really kind of sidelined but we will see what we will say it's been a it's been a depressing spectacle so far i think

00:25:37.92
alexei sayle
uh but yeah so yeah i yeah mean

00:25:40.27
Talal K
So what's going on in the Labour Party? Break it down, please.

00:25:42.06
alexei sayle
Oh, I don't know. of I don't know. I mean, it's...

00:25:45.11
Talal K
You brought it up.

00:25:45.94
alexei sayle
that's just They're all... I know. I grew tired. I mean, I realized, you know... um I mean, I think that...

00:25:52.14
Talal K
Well, I think, no, you kind of covered it. so has West Street in got a team behind him?

00:25:57.24
alexei sayle
I imagine he has, really. And he is. You know, he's one day clearly is nakedly ambitious. and ah But, I mean, Starmer is just so useless that all this has sort of rebounded on him, really. And he won't be...

00:26:11.30
alexei sayle
I guess they will get rid of him at some point. if yeah I mean, they the may the local elections in May presumably will be another bloodbath for Labour and there will be moves to remove him at that point, really. um i mean, it's annoying because I'm writing this know book of this book about politics. really Politics bloody keeps changing every day, so...

00:26:33.91
alexei sayle
You know, he may be, you know, I write about Starmer and this dishonesty, but he he may be gone by the time the book comes out.

00:26:40.41
Talal K
You could weave that in.

00:26:40.63
alexei sayle
i don't know.

00:26:41.29
Talal K
The first time you mention it, you could weave that into the book and say, this might not be true by the time the book comes out.

00:26:43.94
alexei sayle
Maybe, yeah. Yeah.

00:26:46.45
Talal K
So, ah you know, feel free to replace his name with.

00:26:47.36
alexei sayle
Yeah. So don't buy it. as Somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:26:52.44
Talal K
Or you could even like just say from now on, whenever I say, I'm. Mittens or like, ah you know, the silly name. Whenever I say Lord Fluffy, I'm talking about whoever the current leader of the Labour Party is.

00:27:00.00
alexei sayle
yeah

00:27:02.99
alexei sayle
Yeah, just to ever fill in the gap. Yeah, maybe.

00:27:05.11
Talal K
Yeah. and Let's see what's... Why is Labour Party in such a mess?

00:27:17.53
Talal K
That's not an article. That's a fucking podcast.

00:27:22.69
alexei sayle
don't want that. Nobody wants podcasts.

00:27:41.91
Talal K
Why is it so hard to find a fucking article about what's happening?

00:27:45.64
alexei sayle
I don't know, maybe they're removing them all.

00:27:52.17
alexei sayle
I'm at Comic-Con on Saturday. That's finally come around.

00:27:58.02
Talal K
Are you going to be at a desk signing autographs?

00:28:00.67
alexei sayle
i assume that's what they're paying me for. I don't know why else they would have me there. mean, if they just want to have me there to sit in a chair eating baked goods, I'd rather do that. But i expect I'll be signing autographs.

00:28:15.54
alexei sayle
Tim McInerney tim mcinina' is going to be there, apparently. And and Adrian Edmondson is going to be there.

00:28:24.62
Talal K
Oh!

00:28:25.92
alexei sayle
So I am informed whether we'll meet or not. don't know whether that was in the same.

00:28:33.07
Talal K
Oh, I hope you you say hi and you have a nice moment.

00:28:35.66
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, sure. Tim's a friend of mine. Adrian's a friend of mine. and as I feel great affection for. So, ah yeah, we'll see them.

00:28:47.86
alexei sayle
It's a long time since I've done one of these things, really.

00:28:52.13
Talal K
That's an easy gig. Easy enough, right? You've just got to sit there.

00:28:54.62
alexei sayle
yeah she Yeah, it's just a bit humiliating as well, really.

00:28:56.67
Talal K
But it must be tiring.

00:29:00.00
alexei sayle
selling yeah

00:29:02.92
alexei sayle
But, ah you know, yeah, it's fine, really. It'll be interesting see see how my fame's stood up.

00:29:11.16
Talal K
Hmm.

00:29:14.28
alexei sayle
I suppose, don't know why I'm there.

00:29:18.58
alexei sayle
Indiana Jones and Doctor Who, I suppose, are my Comic-Con credits, really. I don't know whether there's any more to it than that.

00:29:33.12
Talal K
Let's see. um I have got your IMDB preloaded up.

00:29:40.01
alexei sayle
That's my IMDb season. Well out date, isn't it?

00:29:43.89
Talal K
Was the thief lord based on a comic book of any sort?

00:29:47.33
alexei sayle
Now it was written by the German, a woman called Cornelia Funk, who's the German J.K. Rowling.

00:29:55.06
Talal K
Oh my god.

00:29:56.41
alexei sayle
Apparently. That film probably didn't do her reputation any good at all.

00:30:02.58
Talal K
Hmm. No, Reckless Kelly wasn't a comic book, was it? That was just

00:30:08.59
alexei sayle
No, it's not comic books. really I mean, I've never, i don't know that I've ever been. It's more just, you know, it's it's just big franchises, isn't it, that I've been in, really?

00:30:19.41
alexei sayle
I think is that's the interest. I don't know, maybe it's just general general celebrity. I don't know what the what the attraction is, but, you know, the guy asked me to do it, so I'm doing it.

00:30:33.08
Talal K
Yeah. Okay, good luck.

00:30:37.01
alexei sayle
Thank you. Thank you. car's coming at 8.20 to pick me up. I'm not used to getting up.

00:30:43.49
Talal K
Oh my God, Saturday morning.

00:30:45.26
alexei sayle
Yeah, I miss, yeah.

00:30:46.27
Talal K
Okay.

00:30:48.72
Talal K
That'll be the day this comes out. You can listen to it on the drive.

00:30:51.75
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:30:54.80
Talal K
um

00:30:57.44
alexei sayle
We were talking about a lay party worker.

00:30:57.60
Talal K
So yeah, West Street is on the cabinet, right?

00:31:01.71
alexei sayle
Yeah, she's health secretary.

00:31:03.02
Talal K
Prime Minister says he never authorised a tax on ket cabinet members after briefings from Number 10 that Health Secretary West Streeting was mounting a leadership bid.

00:31:03.69
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:31:14.14
Talal K
So what, I'm sorry, what is a briefing? look what What does that mean?

00:31:18.66
alexei sayle
Just really just whispering, people going and saying, its briefing is just some somebody, presumably Morgan McSweeney or one of his, Starmer's other Oompa Loompas, just going to the ah lobby journalists like, you know, Koonsberg or Beth Rigby or Chris Mason and chatting shit about them, you know, like a kind of diss track.

00:31:38.33
Talal K
Right.

00:31:45.78
Talal K
Okay.

00:31:47.42
alexei sayle
Is it a diss track?

00:31:49.60
Talal K
Yeah, doing diss track, a but a public shaming.

00:31:53.03
alexei sayle
yeah Yeah, um it's kind of like that, but, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:57.89
Talal K
And it's like saying, we see you kind of thing. We see what you're doing.

00:32:01.42
alexei sayle
yeah yeah

00:32:02.62
Talal K
Watch it.

00:32:02.96
alexei sayle
It's, yeah, but it's it's very, I mean, I think it's it's an odd thing, an aggressive thing for ah certain prime minister.

00:32:03.56
Talal K
Watch it. We're here. We see you.

00:32:08.67
Talal K
But if

00:32:12.86
Talal K
Starmer didn't authorize it, then it's technically a leak.

00:32:16.95
alexei sayle
Starmer says he didn't organise it, but...

00:32:18.14
Talal K
Yeah. Well, speaking to MPs at Prime Minister's questions on Wednesday, Starmer said, i I've never authorized a tax on cabinet members.

00:32:26.41
alexei sayle
yeah

00:32:28.09
Talal K
I appointed them to their post because they're the best people to carry out their jobs.

00:32:33.65
alexei sayle
yeah

00:32:34.00
Talal K
um He criticized the briefing as unacceptable and defended...

00:32:37.32
alexei sayle
well Starmer is a proven liar though i mean we know he lies about everything so why wouldn't he be lying about this

00:32:45.64
Talal K
It's very two-faced, isn't it? um

00:32:50.48
Talal K
And Kemi Badenoch, Conservative leader, said that Starmer's government has descended into civil war. I can't do an impression of her.

00:32:58.54
alexei sayle
No. Well, yeah, they're all, i mean, because all they're good at, all they were good at was getting, was getting seizing control of the the levers of power within the Labour Party and then kind of getting rid of anybody who even mildly disagreed with them.

00:33:01.29
Talal K
Okay, where is...

00:33:18.73
alexei sayle
even people on the soft left or the center they got rid of, ah like Neil Lawson of Compass, but any kind of Blairite. So they just, all they can do is conspire. That's all that they're good at, really, because they're sneaks and liars and they're dishonest and all that works for them. They can't govern the country or provide moral leadership. All they can do is conspire stab each other in the back and

00:33:47.95
Talal K
Yeah.

00:33:48.21
alexei sayle
That's, you know, that's what we've got in charge.

00:33:49.79
Talal K
Streeting denies it.

00:33:51.42
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:33:52.75
Talal K
Streeting denies it as well.

00:33:56.25
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:33:56.32
Talal K
um But he did say what we've seen from Downing Street overnight are a series of categorically untrue briefings. Whoever's behind this has been watching far too much celebrity traitors.

00:34:08.21
alexei sayle
Oh, yeah. a

00:34:09.89
Talal K
ah

00:34:10.60
alexei sayle
Contemporary reverence.

00:34:14.67
alexei sayle
Or something that happened weeks ago.

00:34:16.53
Talal K
Late night.

00:34:16.61
alexei sayle
Yeah, ah it's ah it's a sorry. It's a sad, sad situation. And it's getting more and more absurd.

00:34:26.66
Talal K
Ah, you've been watching too much boy band, dreamland or whatever it's called. what was it called? Boy band forever.

00:34:33.43
alexei sayle
Girl bands forever and then boy band forever.

00:34:39.51
Talal K
Okay.

00:34:39.81
alexei sayle
ah

00:34:40.61
Talal K
So there are rumors of a possible coup in the Labour Party.

00:34:44.49
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:34:45.87
Talal K
and people threatening others to remain loyal to the true leader. Suck here, Starmer.

00:34:53.40
alexei sayle
Yeah, I mean, it's all, yeah, it's all fucked, really. um I just want to say, by the way, if they've, I don't know really, they want the director general of the BBC, I suppose I'm available. I suppose I'd take it on, even i don't want to.

00:35:11.17
Talal K
ah Certainly don't do it. Someone who literally used to work for

00:35:16.92
Talal K
a Tory, a political party.

00:35:17.04
alexei sayle
Oh, no, he'd have to go. He'd have to go. He'd have to go. Oh, bloody board. have to go, really.

00:35:25.33
Talal K
They should just think outside the box on this.

00:35:27.04
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah.

00:35:30.90
Talal K
They should just, actually, you know what? Just get a Palestinian to do it.

00:35:35.01
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yep, I agree.

00:35:40.94
Talal K
Um...

00:35:40.96
alexei sayle
Do you know this guy, this ah ah Death to the West Midlands, this Arab comedian got good, reasonable review in The Guardian. Is he a mate of yours?

00:35:54.63
Talal K
uh hassan al habib yes i've kicked with him a few times oh has that caught your eye has it

00:35:57.33
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:36:01.91
alexei sayle
I don't yeah, stayed up on The Guardian culture page for quite a few days. i It's only a three, they're only giving three stars, but the headline is complimentary.

00:36:10.63
Talal K
um he's playing the soho theater so fuck him um we are absolute traitor

00:36:14.50
alexei sayle
Yeah, we don't go there. even though I get free coffee and sit under my poster, I don't go there anymore.

00:36:22.56
Talal K
So his parents were refugees from Baghdad and they moved to Birmingham. Yeah, Hassan Al Habib. He's called Humorous Arab on Instagram.

00:36:33.92
Talal K
Yeah, I've gigged with him a few times. lovelylo Lovely bloke, lovely guy, funny. You know, I don't want to say anything else.

00:36:44.99
Talal K
He's funny enough.

00:36:45.00
alexei sayle
All right.

00:36:46.91
Talal K
um But I think... You know, this is an example of how, you know, it's so rare for an Arab to get any fame and to get any media attention in this way.

00:37:02.30
Talal K
And there's such a, there is a very firm line you have to walk in order to do it. So,

00:37:15.63
Talal K
if you know what I mean, you know, there's certain things you talk about and certain things you don't, you know?

00:37:30.03
alexei sayle
Okay.

00:37:31.56
Talal K
um

00:37:34.42
Talal K
Yeah, his comedy is fine, but it's nothing like, nothing that's gonna make you go, wow, that's fucked, that's awesome.

00:37:39.66
alexei sayle
All right.

00:37:43.07
Talal K
You know, nothing divisive going on.

00:37:47.63
Talal K
and

00:37:47.77
alexei sayle
Well, I suppose maybe the world needs that as well. um and Yeah.

00:37:50.63
Talal K
But I'm happy, yeah, no, and to be honest, this is the thing though, because I'm torn. I'm saying that as if it's a horrible thing, but I want to celebrate any any Arab who who does elevate themself.

00:38:02.78
Talal K
And that alone is a form of resistance, of a form of divine defiance.

00:38:07.94
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:38:08.38
Talal K
Your existence in a public sphere is in itself a statement. um And I think being Arab, your sympathies can be inferred or implied without you having to be and you know without you having to be tacit about it.

00:38:26.84
Talal K
um Was that the right word, tacit?

00:38:27.65
alexei sayle
Explicit. No, explicit.

00:38:29.03
Talal K
Explicit, the opposite of tacit.

00:38:30.66
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:38:31.10
Talal K
um So, yeah. so And also there's probably a thread of envy, of jealousy,

00:38:40.92
alexei sayle
yeah um I'm glad you admitted.

00:38:43.67
Talal K
um you know i'm happy for a but playing the solo theater kind of nullifies a lot of that at the same time right how come yeah no that's it that's it um i

00:38:50.17
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I've got anything else to discuss. I've grown bored with this.

00:39:01.49
alexei sayle
hope I hope people enjoy it. ah yeah you feel like You always think when you're watching other people on... I suppose I would be... You're watching Sky News or something, you think you'd be... You think you'd do better than the people who are on, but now when I try it, it's subpar, isn't it, really?

00:39:23.41
alexei sayle
LAUGHTER

00:39:27.29
Talal K
Yeah.

00:39:29.21
alexei sayle
oh

00:39:29.31
Talal K
Yeah, there's a reason why media training exists and stuff. But, you know, you should know. You should have... You should be you should be better.

00:39:35.16
alexei sayle
Yeah, id I'd be more focused, wouldn't i If I was on Sky News, I'd be more focused.

00:39:37.41
Talal K
No. Yeah. um No, I should have better questions for you to get you get some good answers out of you.

00:39:43.62
alexei sayle
No, no, no, it's all my fault. It's not your fault, it's my fault.

00:39:47.04
Talal K
Where does the buck stop?

00:39:50.84
alexei sayle
I'm the, it's the Alexis L podcast, you're not playing.

00:39:54.40
Talal K
ah Have you heard of Al-Fawwabet? Al-Fawwabet.

00:39:57.09
alexei sayle
No, what's what is, what is they, what are they, or it?

00:39:59.52
Talal K
okay what are alpha bet yeah alpha bet meaning constants are the core uncompromising principles of the palestinian liberation struggle now i'm i'm reading this um um i'm not I'm not trying to ah lecture here, I'm just reading reading something.

00:40:20.48
Talal K
Okay.

00:40:20.73
alexei sayle
Yes.

00:40:21.36
Talal K
It's the core uncompromising principles of the Palestinian liberation struggle. So these red lines established by the Palestinian National Council in 1968 represent the demands on which there can be no sacrifice.

00:40:35.25
Talal K
They have been upheld for decades as the foundation of Palestinian resistance and national identity. There's a reason I'm bringing this up. yeah But I'll just read to you the five core principles okay on which, if you want to call yourself a Palestinian resistance activist, you should not ever waver on any of these five principles.

00:40:56.78
alexei sayle
Okay, alright. Am I doing this? Is this a test? Am I...

00:40:59.50
Talal K
I suppose it's a test, yes.

00:41:00.78
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:41:04.47
Talal K
Number one.

00:41:05.64
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:41:06.32
Talal K
the right of return for all Palestinian refugees.

00:41:09.23
alexei sayle
Yeah, I'll go along with that.

00:41:11.14
Talal K
No arguments there. Number two, restitution and compensation for the dispossession endured.

00:41:19.72
alexei sayle
Yes, I would go along with that.

00:41:21.14
Talal K
Yeah?

00:41:21.37
alexei sayle
I would also say, this is an interesting point, because there were a lot of Jews like yeah who were dispossessed for you know in the 30s because out of but you know had their businesses seized in like Iraq, you know the Satchis and the Yentabs and those sort of Sephardic Jewish families. I wonder whether you should they shouldn't be restituted as well.

00:41:45.12
alexei sayle
Because that's one of the things they all... I mean, that was it was caused by, it wouldn't have happened if Israel wasn't about to come, you know, those governments in, like, Iraq could see what was going to happen.

00:41:56.83
alexei sayle
And so they, they and i think in Egypt as well, Jews had their businesses seized and were expelled, and that was wrong as well.

00:42:00.41
Talal K
yeah

00:42:04.62
alexei sayle
And perhaps that should be also, restitution should be a part of, yeah.

00:42:05.96
Talal K
absolutely absolutely um but you know that yeah absolutely i'm not disagreeing and uh the uh but the uh you know a lot of the jewish communities from the arab world felt the need to flee because of um

00:42:14.85
alexei sayle
Mm-hmm.

00:42:25.63
Talal K
because of Zionist terrorism, triggering fear across the Middle East and and creating division.

00:42:27.34
alexei sayle
Yes. And they used to, mean, they did, the Zionists did plant bombs in mosques and stuff, didn't they? And then giant false flag operations.

00:42:33.86
Talal K
Yes.

00:42:36.25
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:42:36.41
Talal K
um

00:42:39.02
Talal K
it And it is mad to me that all of

00:42:40.41
alexei sayle
Synagogues, not mosques.

00:42:42.67
Talal K
all of this

00:42:45.82
Talal K
because of the Holocaust and in a way the Nazis won because they got rid of so many Jews by creating Israel.

00:42:50.58
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:42:53.32
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:42:54.92
Talal K
um The Nazis didn't create Israel, but by the creation of Israel, you know.

00:42:55.06
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:42:59.24
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it a victory. Israel is a victory for Nazism. I agree. All right, yeah so rest anyway, restitution too. I'm on board with that conversation.

00:43:06.61
Talal K
Compensation, yeah. And in America, what did they give to their ex slaves ah or descendants of slaves? as Five acres and a donkey or something or two acres and a donkey.

00:43:15.10
alexei sayle
infer but yeah Two acres and a mule.

00:43:18.05
Talal K
Two Acres and a Mule. That was the Spike Lee production company.

00:43:19.61
alexei sayle
I got my two acres and a mule. Yeah.

00:43:22.62
Talal K
And what's the word for that?

00:43:26.33
alexei sayle
Well, apart from shit, I mean...

00:43:28.45
Talal K
yeah Yes, apart No, the word for...

00:43:31.26
alexei sayle
Or restitution, is that what you mean?

00:43:32.52
Talal K
Is it just restitution? I

00:43:34.41
alexei sayle
That's a great episode of Atlanta, that one where, kind of fantasy, have you seen it, where they the restitution bill passes?

00:43:42.39
Talal K
haven't.

00:43:43.41
alexei sayle
Fucking brilliant. I mean, there are... I mean, general Donald... um I've got my own bad names there. ah what's Who's Atlanta?

00:43:54.34
alexei sayle
You know, Childish Gambino, um Donald Glover.

00:43:56.17
Talal K
ah Donald Glover.

00:43:57.89
alexei sayle
His career has been a bit... on and off since then, but fucking hell, Atlanta, there are some episodes of that series, I would recommend anybody, of Atlanta, that are just some of the greatest television of the last decade or whatever.

00:44:11.68
Talal K
Yes. He's a great artist, though, and I do respect that he just kind of follows his creative whims and and he has such a broad span of creativity and, you know, Mr.

00:44:18.96
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah.

00:44:24.07
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:44:25.62
Talal K
and Mrs. Smith to his music. um

00:44:27.99
alexei sayle
Yeah, Mr. and Mrs. Smith was a bit...

00:44:30.53
Talal K
It was fine, though, entertaining, but yeah, did it it started off strong. Reparations was the word I was looking for.

00:44:37.28
alexei sayle
alright, okay alright, number three

00:44:39.72
Talal K
Okay, number three, the right the right to resistance in all its forms.

00:44:46.69
alexei sayle
yeah, I mean, and that's something i think I can get you locked up, can't it, to say that you know, that Palestinian ah you know, Palestinian resistance is legitimate resistance, but it's enshrined in the Geneva Convention, as I understand it, so yes, I agree yeah

00:45:03.01
Talal K
Yes, it is. And that word resistance, though, you've got to look up the definition of resistance and, you know, do that. It's not it's not just any old thing.

00:45:11.48
alexei sayle
All right.

00:45:12.77
Talal K
You can't, you know, resistance.

00:45:15.78
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:45:16.49
Talal K
You've pick your fucking targets and pick your. ah But yeah, right resistance. Yeah. ah We're behind that. If you're occupied, if you're a victim, you have the right to fucking resist.

00:45:26.42
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:29.04
Talal K
All right, number four, full self-determination over Palestine from the river to the scene.

00:45:36.94
alexei sayle
ah Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, that I don't know what that implications are for the State of Israel.

00:45:39.08
Talal K
Yes.

00:45:45.14
alexei sayle
I mean, suppose that implies one state, really.

00:45:49.38
Talal K
And this, yep. And it shouldn't be at the... Like to avoid being a fucking hypocrite, it shouldn't be at the ah cost of others.

00:46:07.25
alexei sayle
No. Yeah.

00:46:09.16
Talal K
Obviously after once justice has been served and you know, um

00:46:15.86
Talal K
this is what people don't understand when people say from the river to the sea, Palestine be free. It doesn't mean wipe out all Israelis If you create a democracy in that land, the Palestinians will outweigh, outweigh the Israelis and democracy will prevail.

00:46:28.39
alexei sayle
yeah Equal rights role. Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:33.59
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:46:36.26
alexei sayle
yeah

00:46:37.62
Talal K
And

00:46:39.00
alexei sayle
I'm on board with that.

00:46:41.64
Talal K
um you know if you If you were born there, or your parents were born there, that I don't think people should necessarily be kicked out, but naturally they're gonna wanna leave because Israelis are so racist against Arabs.

00:46:52.64
Talal K
And if they become the majority, they're gonna be like, okay, let's get out. Let's go back to New York.

00:46:57.22
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:58.40
Talal K
Let's go back to Warsaw. and Let's go back to...

00:47:01.80
alexei sayle
Yeah. and

00:47:03.66
Talal K
Anyway, full determination over Palestine from the river to the sea.

00:47:05.46
alexei sayle
yeah yeah

00:47:07.22
Talal K
Oh, fuck yeah. rich Okay, number five. rejecting all forms of colonialism, normalization, and occupation.

00:47:17.95
alexei sayle
Yeah, agree with that. I'm very much against that. You might not know this about me, but I'm very much against all forms of colonialism.

00:47:30.67
alexei sayle
You may be surprised if you're listening to this first. Come on, this podcast expecting gardening or something.

00:47:37.52
Talal K
What about occupation?

00:47:39.03
alexei sayle
Yeah, occupation, yeah.

00:47:40.63
Talal K
What about normalisation?

00:47:42.35
alexei sayle
Yeah, so I'm sorry, am I for or against that?

00:47:46.25
Talal K
That's what I'm asking.

00:47:46.51
alexei sayle
Normalization.

00:47:47.83
Talal K
That's what I'm asking.

00:47:50.98
alexei sayle
Oh was so God, what's the right answer? um i'm Normalization of occupation and colonialism. I'm against that.

00:48:03.59
Talal K
Why are they important? Al-Thawabat is essential for the Palestinian liberation movement because it embodies the core non-negotiable principles that unify Palestinians in their pursuit of justice, self-determination.

00:48:16.90
Talal K
um Activists, so for example, Nizar Banat, activist, criticized leader of the Palestinian Authority, the PLO, who compromised these principles for the sake of political expediency.

00:48:29.46
alexei sayle
Yeah, that's another.

00:48:29.67
Talal K
So we're getting to the point I want to get at.

00:48:32.53
alexei sayle
All right. All right. There is a point to this, isn't it?

00:48:34.45
Talal K
Yes.

00:48:35.21
alexei sayle
All right.

00:48:36.45
Talal K
Abandoning the Al-Thawwabat equates to betraying the collective aspirations of the Palestinian people and weakening the resistance against occupation. What were you going to say though? You had something to say there?

00:48:47.44
alexei sayle
Now, I was just saying, yeah, the Palestinian Authority, they're another bunch of old shitbags. You should be retired.

00:48:58.23
Talal K
Okay. So, non-Palestinians, here's how you can uphold Al-Thawwabat.

00:49:04.52
alexei sayle
Okay.

00:49:05.20
Talal K
Stand firm in your right to resist by any means necessary. Reject all forms of normalization with the Zionist entity, whether through partnerships, debates, panels, or peace talks that undermine Palestinian demands.

00:49:17.57
Talal K
Always prioritize liberation over compromise. And I think this,

00:49:24.58
Talal K
so it's that normalization issue um is kind of where I'm coming to um because people are, accusing Mehdi Hassan and even Zoran Mamdani of being Zionists

00:49:39.39
alexei sayle
yeah

00:49:46.26
alexei sayle
Because of what?

00:49:49.77
Talal K
because they are not strictly adhering to these five rules, in particular the normalization one.

00:49:56.73
alexei sayle
Well, I mean, when Dami says, you know ah you know, when they say, do you believe in, you know, as you has a right to exist, he says it has a right to exist, you know you know, as a state where all people's rights are respected. That seems pretty unequivocal as well, isn't

00:50:12.62
Talal K
precisely that Alexei and so does Mamdani come at you with that same response this is a diplomatic response in order not to be called an anti-semite not to be called that you're you're calling for a gender for ethnic cleansing yourself because this is what people say you if you give any other answer but also the word is not as important as the people

00:50:13.40
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:50:18.36
alexei sayle
Yeah, I was saying, man, not.

00:50:28.88
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:50:40.52
Talal K
The word Palestine, Israel, like I said earlier, Palestine has been occupied, colonized forever and ever. It's only today that we're seeing the most cruelty ah inflicted upon the Palestinians.

00:50:50.64
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:50:53.50
alexei sayle
yeah

00:50:55.23
Talal K
And it's had many names. But palesttin Palestine is a people, not and you know it's not a flag, it's not a name. they're are That is how you can represent the people and represent the land, but it's the people that fucking matter more than anything, right?

00:51:09.42
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:51:10.67
Talal K
But people are attacking Mamdani and Hassan, literally calling them Zionists because of this exact because of that precise

00:51:10.70
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:51:14.41
alexei sayle
Oh, for God's sake.

00:51:18.65
alexei sayle
Who are these people?

00:51:22.53
Talal K
argument that they make

00:51:25.53
alexei sayle
Well...

00:51:26.52
Talal K
which is a matter of perspective, isn't it? If they're saying, yeah, okay, Israel has a right to resist, it's a concession for them. But it's like, for me, it sounds it sounds like they're frustrated when they say it.

00:51:34.07
alexei sayle
Just being smart, really.

00:51:35.91
Talal K
They're like, yeah okay, it has a right to resist, like but it has to be democratic.

00:51:38.10
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:51:40.28
Talal K
And everyone has to have the equal rights, and the right of return is important.

00:51:44.54
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:51:45.90
Talal K
That's never ah questioned.

00:51:49.42
alexei sayle
No.

00:51:50.42
Talal K
but

00:51:50.64
alexei sayle
Well, I would just say to those people who are attacking Mehdi Hassan and Soran Mandami, stop it, stop it. Stop it, stop it, stop it. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

00:52:04.77
alexei sayle
These people are on our side. We can't both kind have these purity tests.

00:52:11.04
Talal K
I think Al Thawabet are five very easy to agree with principles and it's important, but to call someone a Zionist on such a, such a

00:52:15.45
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:52:21.21
alexei sayle
Yeah, well, you know, you never you never do some of the you never know really whether you know what is the motivation behind some of this, whether it's just the sort of people who are puritanical in their viewpoint. they can't Everything has to be 100% pure or they can't follow it. But it and I think that kind of...

00:52:42.96
alexei sayle
fanaticism and puritanical viewpoint just undermines our movement, I think. we have to you know We have to be inclusive and you know and we have to work with our... you know We see an ally as an ally and not try to invent reasons to exclude them so we can be a very pure and um you know ideologically rigid movement of 17 people.

00:53:13.09
alexei sayle
that's my gri That's what grinds my gears.

00:53:19.70
alexei sayle
So, there you go.

00:53:22.92
alexei sayle
But, you know, feel free to disagree with me. We got anything else?

00:53:27.59
Talal K
It is fucking miraculous that Mamdani is where he is now and we should be fucking grateful.

00:53:32.73
alexei sayle
Yeah. People try it. And you wonder some of them are not, you know.

00:53:36.11
Talal K
But there is a spanner author in works. Did you hear about the police chief? That he's he's the site he announced that he would retain the current chief of police.

00:53:42.38
alexei sayle
No.

00:53:48.56
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:53:49.56
Talal K
who is the biggest pro-Israel

00:53:54.88
alexei sayle
yeah

00:53:55.31
Talal K
ah advocate. Just getting her name now. Jessica Tish, who is a horrid cunt and her dad is a huge Israel supporter and fountain billionaire um funder of Israel.

00:54:03.41
alexei sayle
Right. Well, you know.

00:54:15.91
Talal K
So,

00:54:18.33
Talal K
so and NYPD commissioner.

00:54:19.61
alexei sayle
I take out calling her a cunt, I think.

00:54:23.62
Talal K
You what?

00:54:24.31
alexei sayle
Are we allowed to do... Can you call her a cunt?

00:54:26.90
Talal K
Why not?

00:54:27.95
alexei sayle
I don't know. I don't know what the rules are these days.

00:54:30.89
Talal K
It's not defamation if it's true.

00:54:32.87
alexei sayle
Now just wonder whether it offends our listeners.

00:54:35.03
Talal K
Oh. um Well, she's chief of police. Fuck the police.

00:54:40.21
alexei sayle
Yeah, I'm just using that word on your...

00:54:40.30
Talal K
ACAB.

00:54:42.49
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:54:43.04
Talal K
Oh, okay. I'll put a beep on it then.

00:54:44.34
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:54:46.19
Talal K
I'll beep it out. Sorry, listeners. I'll use the most annoying beep. Actually, Alexi, give me a word I can replace it with and I'll put your voice over it.

00:54:53.60
alexei sayle
ah ah annoying oh I think daffodil daffodil

00:54:58.53
Talal K
No, make it something funny.

00:55:01.87
Talal K
Say a daffodil.

00:55:05.68
Talal K
Say daffodil clearly. Give me a clean take on... I was talking over you one more time.

00:55:11.15
alexei sayle
asking me to be funny I think this podcast has proved irrevocably I can't be funny on these topics daffodil

00:55:18.77
Talal K
ah Okay, great. I'll put that in. um So that is concerning. Is he making a concession to keep is some people happy or to keep maintain is his position? Or is he a secret Zionist?

00:55:32.69
Talal K
Don't think I'm a naive and don't think I'm not going to be keeping an eye on this Mamdani fucker.

00:55:36.51
alexei sayle
Yeah, well, I suppose you're going to, you know, you're going to go, you know, you have to, you know, make compromises. I don't know. We will see.

00:55:47.16
Talal K
Can't be easy being

00:55:47.94
alexei sayle
I remain optimistic as of today.

00:55:51.69
Talal K
Yeah, let let us remain optimistic, despite how that's bitten us in the ass countless times and probably every time we've ever thought about being optimistic.

00:55:57.95
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:02.23
alexei sayle
Let's stick with that losing strategy. Yeah.

00:56:04.87
Talal K
What did they say? that The first sign of insanity?

00:56:08.19
alexei sayle
Doing the same thing and accepting a different result, yeah. It

00:56:12.81
Talal K
Let's say optimistic.

00:56:16.72
Talal K
Yeah, oh my God, it's such a messy fucking world, isn't it?

00:56:20.55
alexei sayle
is.

00:56:21.20
Talal K
um I can't even like my favorite bands anymore.

00:56:27.19
alexei sayle
Stephen Wright, isn't it? It's a small world, but I wouldn't like to paint it.

00:56:33.59
Talal K
Can I just say a quick thank you to the White Kite Collective. I've been involved in two of their projects over the last week.

00:56:38.03
alexei sayle
Oh yes, Zainab, yes.

00:56:40.98
Talal K
Yes, Zainab, shout out Zainab and Joel, Samuels, um and Ruth and Tughrid and the rest.

00:56:49.51
Talal K
On Saturday, we did a very powerful um performance at Stratford East. And a bunch of us actors were reading writings from Gaza, from wider Palestine as well.

00:57:04.87
Talal K
um And then just last night, I was at Queen Mary University in their theatre department in the Pinta Studio Theatre.

00:57:14.35
Talal K
And we performed four we performed four plays written by Gazans, three of whom are still living in tents in Gaza.

00:57:16.10
alexei sayle
Harold?

00:57:23.85
Talal K
And they'd sent these plays off. They were given a brief of write whatever the fuck you want and we'll perform it. And they sent over four plays. And it was nice to tread the boards again.

00:57:35.19
Talal K
been a play, or four, and

00:57:36.56
alexei sayle
There?

00:57:40.70
Talal K
it it was just very, very meaningful, and I'm very grateful to get to perform these works. um And it's not even patronizing because they're fucking great. These write these plays were so well written.

00:57:54.16
Talal K
And to think, you can be an artist. but I wanted to briefly just touch on the power of art in times of struggle in times of resistance in times of war i wanted to see your thoughts on that so these guys are in living in a tent with shelling going on around them and they're sitting down writing a play and they're and they're great they're great plays

00:58:10.81
alexei sayle
Yeah, I mean, you say yeah, yeah. It's remarkable, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:21.45
Talal K
art as a weapon art is resistance have you got any thoughts on that to take us out

00:58:23.55
alexei sayle
Yeah. I think it's a good thing. I think it's really good. Artist resistance. I don't know. mean um' I sort of... um I think it's a good thing.

00:58:37.07
alexei sayle
I...

00:58:37.25
Talal K
How important is art in times of war, in times like these?

00:58:40.72
alexei sayle
I don't know. I don't know. don't

00:58:47.61
alexei sayle
know. I don't... I think it's probably really important. LAUGHTER

00:58:53.03
Talal K
and That's not fair. You know what? I'm coming at you hot from a very passionate and fiery environment where this was on the top tip of our tongues and I'm attacking you in the basement of your house and...

00:58:56.89
alexei sayle
ah

00:58:59.55
alexei sayle
I think I have to... I have to...

00:59:06.40
alexei sayle
Expecting me to... Expecting me to come up with stuff.

00:59:12.53
Talal K
um Okay, I'll say it's fucking vital. You know, it allows us to say things that you're not allowed to say, you know,

00:59:14.86
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:59:18.66
alexei sayle
Yeah, it well, in a different sort of way, yeah. actually went to a sort book reading and discussion at Hausmann's Left Wing Bookshop about this German woman had written a book called Bourgeois Coldness, which is about, it's sort of about um how, you know, you have to be cold, you have to, you know, to live in this world in a way you you can't,

00:59:40.49
alexei sayle
you there are so many terrible things going on and how people develop a kind of coldness to just to get through really. It was very interesting because it was, it was very high end kind of philosophy because but the woman who interviewed her and the woman who wrote it about, um,

00:59:57.15
alexei sayle
professors of philosophy. So there was a lot of talk of um of Adorno and um the Frankfurt School and kind of post-war European philosophy.

01:00:16.39
alexei sayle
But I thought, well, wouldn't it be great if this was all in a play?

01:00:20.21
Talal K
Hmph.

01:00:20.37
alexei sayle
it'd be you know it'd be great if you these ideas which i'm explaining very badly uh if they were all in the play they'd be great and i you know i was adorno was a was a huge fan of samuel beckett and i just i've been thinking a lot about beckett i don't know why i really but um You know, you see there, you see, I think, really the most profound philosophical ideas, like ideas of, I guess, of existentialism, but expressed in a and a theatrical production which contains humor and drama. and

01:00:57.07
Talal K
yeah

01:00:57.49
alexei sayle
I just think Beckett is extraordinary, really.

01:01:01.84
alexei sayle
So, i mean, on that, ah can we stop now?

01:01:01.89
Talal K
um yeah let me um all right let let me just quickly plug our patreon please if you want to support the show this is a grassroots independent production we never want to have adverts on this show help us keep that a reality go to patreon.com forward slash alexisell podcast chuck us a couple quid a month um It means so much to me, all the people who are already there supporting the show. You get exclusive content on there.

01:01:30.90
Talal K
You get to see the full video episodes of the Alexi Cell podcast. You get see um Alexi, Lisa and Nigel watching the young ones. Alexi went to a shooting range and shot off some massive guns.

01:01:43.90
alexei sayle
It seems like a lifetime ago.

01:01:44.14
Talal K
and you can see all the work i put into our dnd uh episode uh go to patreon.com forward slash alexishell podcast and join the community there join the chat room and uh message me i read those messages before i read anything else um me and alexi really appreciate it

01:01:48.86
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:01:52.49
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:01:55.13
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:02:01.65
alexei sayle
I don't, yeah. I promise I'll be better next week.

01:02:04.91
Talal K
no you were great lexi you were fantastic no you were really good

01:02:07.88
alexei sayle
Was I?

01:02:11.92
Talal K
Please, you're wonderful.

01:02:12.92
alexei sayle
I don't think you're being sincere.

01:02:14.23
Talal K
No, look, Alexi. Come on, let's go to the living room. They've got some apple crumble in there for you with some custard.

01:02:18.61
alexei sayle
ah oh

01:02:22.39
Talal K
You want some crumble and custard?

01:02:22.54
alexei sayle
go to the Are they taking us to the zoo?

01:02:26.63
Talal K
Yes, that's that's on Tuesday, Alexi, okay?

01:02:28.02
alexei sayle
Are we going on a bus to the zoo?

01:02:29.86
Talal K
Yes, we're going on a bus.

01:02:32.14
alexei sayle
I'm 73.

01:02:33.17
Talal K
yeah You did great.

01:02:34.44
alexei sayle
I played a natality football match with the Prime Minister.

01:02:37.03
Talal K
Come on. Come on, Alexi, say bye-bye. Come on, let's go.

01:02:40.88
alexei sayle
was big in the 80s.

01:02:42.80
Talal K
Yes, yes, he was. Come on, do you want the custard?

01:02:44.74
alexei sayle
All right. right All right. Sounds nice. Bye-bye.