Announcer (00:01):
Highlighting the amazing stories from inside the North Clackamas School District. This is the Proud To Be NCSD Podcast hosted by longtime principal and current community relations director Curtis. Long

Curtis Long (00:16):
As the school year now enters its third month, these are the sounds of a highly functioning North Clackamas kindergarten classroom. Behavior expectations for different activities taking place throughout the day have been discussed as a class and mutually agreed upon with the teacher. Students know what voice level to use when partnering together on a math lesson or how to gain the teacher's attention with a simple hand signal as part of a district-wide focus this year, these behavior agreements are posted on the wall and often revisited as quick reminders.

Kindergarten Teacher (00:44):
If yours is done, go ahead and turn it in. If it is not done, leave it at your spot and you can come in and finish it while we do calendar.

Curtis Long (00:53):
So with all these classroom routines now firmly in place in November, that must mean that NCSD teachers and support staff, especially at the elementary level, can simply follow their lesson plans word for word as everything moves along on cloud nine. What's that say?

Kindergarten Student (01:08):
C.

Curtis Long (01:09):
Why'd you know that?

Kindergarten Student (01:11):
'cause we learned it,

Curtis Long (01:12):
But sometimes students use behavioral outbursts as a way to communicate their needs and those behavior interruptions can turn cloud nine into a perfect storm in the classroom or on the playground.

Playground Assistant (01:23):
You're feeling sad because she kicked water at you.

Kindergarten Student (01:26):
I didn't mean to and I kept on saying stop until you wouldn't. Okay.

Curtis Long (01:30):
There's no question that in any school district, students at all levels from kindergarten to 12th grade can display behaviors that disrupt the classroom environment. Frustrate even the most composed teachers and hinder the learning of classmates. But the real question is why and how do North Clackamas teachers and staff proactively correct student behavior without interrupting student learning? Step one is building strong relationships. Did

NCSD Teacher (01:54):
You have a Your morning meeting? How'd it go when you checked in? How were you feeling this morning? Rainbow zone. You were in the rainbow zone. Yeah. All the feelings altogether. Yeah. Yeah.

Curtis Long (02:03):
That's where this episode's three guests come in. Sarah Sadd is a North Clackamas behavior coach who works with several schools to help staff members understand the why behind a student's misbehavior.

NCSD Teacher (02:14):
Look at me one more minute. And back to class.

Curtis Long (02:15):
Kacy Lentz is a paraprofessional on the school district's behavior team. She spends her days training fellow classroom assistants and providing one-on-one support for students who might need a little extra help managing and understanding their behavior.

Dr. Sharon Azar (02:28):
And then how many of you have worked with kids who are just, were seen just defiant, right? They may not be running out of the room, but they're not on task. I'm not gonna do it. Or they're tearing their work or they're knocking it off the table.

Curtis Long (02:42):
Then there's Dr. Sharon Azar. While we didn't get to actually interview the nationally known student behavior expert, we did listen in on her recent in-person training session in our school district for all elementary paraprofessionals. And her insights are definitely worth reflecting upon.

Dr. Sharon Azar (02:57):
Behavior is communication. Would you agree with that? Yes. Okay. And we have kids that are 100% verbal but are still communicating their frustration level with us through acts of physical aggression. Would you agree with that?

Curtis Long (03:16):
Today on the Proud To Be NCSD podcast, we take a tenderhearted approach toward a taxing topic. How do we provide students and for that matter, teachers and staff supports to help manage misbehavior and minimize classroom disruptions?

Speaker 8 (03:30):
Awesome. Have a great day. Okay. See you later!

Curtis Long (03:32):
Our compassionate conversation is next and we are very pleased now to be joined by district behavioral coach Sarah Sadd and NCSD behavioral team Paraprofessional, Kacy Lentz, Sarah and Kacy, thanks so much for joining us today.

Sarah Sadd (03:46):
Thanks for having us.

Curtis Long (03:47):
First off, as we often do on the podcast, since this is audio only, let's have each of you introduce yourselves and tell our audience a little bit about what you do in your current role in our school district.

Sarah Sadd (03:56):
I'm Sarah Sadd. I'm a behavior coach for North Clackamas School District supporting, um, kindergarten through fifth grade schools

Kacy Lentz (04:03):
This year. I'm kacy Lentz. I am a paraprofessional on the behavior team. I support paraeducators in the classroom in kindergarten to fifth grade, help teaching them IEPs and implementing behavior support plans in the classroom.

Curtis Long (04:19):
So I imagine Kacy as a paraprofessional, you're right at the same level in doing some of the same things that the people you're helping train. Correct. . And as we mentioned earlier, our third guest is someone we don't have here next to us live, but we able to record some of her insights during a training she conducted for NCSD elementary paraprofessionals a couple weeks ago. That's Dr. Sharon Azar, a nationally known expert on student behavior. Let's listen in on a quick snippet from that presentation.

Dr. Sharon Azar (04:44):
Behavior is communication. Would you agree with that? Yes. Okay. And we have kids that are 100% verbal but are still communicating their frustration level with us through acts of physical aggression. Would you agree with that? I am gonna stand here and very clearly say I do not believe that our professionals should be assaulted in their classrooms. Okay? And I'm gonna work our paraprofessional, our professionals, our administration school needs to be a safe place. I am gonna stand here and say we have to teach kids how to be safe. Would you agree with that? Um, so we have some students, I can just use my personal daughter as an example. Um, if she went to school and was naughty, boy, she got in trouble when she got home. There was a consequence when she got home and it might, the consequence might have been that you have to put the laundry away for the next five days because boy, she hated putting the laundry away.

Dr. Sharon Azar (05:58):
And that was a meaningful consequence to her. Are, are you following where I'm going with that? It wasn't necessarily a timeout or take her phone away. I needed her to have her phone because I was a single mom and I needed to communicate. So I wasn't gonna punish myself for her behavior. Are you following me with that? So, but there was a consequence attached. Many of our students come in with little to no consequences. Would you agree with that? And so how do we shift behavior? And if we're not putting consequences in place, I wanna share with you that consequences does not equal punishment. Okay. Consequence is what we put in place to shape their behavior and to change their behavior.

Curtis Long (06:48):
Alright, Sarah and Kacy, let's expand on that. What are your thoughts, especially since you're in the middle of this kind of behavior management each day about behavior one as a form of communication and then the role of consequences?

Sarah Sadd (06:58):
I think that's a really great question and something that we both work with, um, staff and students all the time. Consequences are very different from punishment. It's that natural consequence to something that happens. So a consequence could be positive, negative or neutral, but something that happens in result to a behavior. So I think we often see, especially our littles right now coming in with some big behaviors. Mm-hmm . Because they are expressing themselves more through that behavior and haven't quite honed in those communication skills just yet to be able to get their wants and needs met. And we are oftentimes helping support teachers and um, staff members on how to help develop that skill. But it takes time. It's not a one and done and easy, easy thing to do.

Curtis Long (07:42):
So you're really teaching kids a way of saying, Hey, this is what I really need. They don't know how to express that and their way of expressing that is through behavior.

Sarah Sadd (07:51):
Absolutely.

Curtis Long (07:52):
Kacy, you see those kind of things too, I'm sure.

Kacy Lentz (07:54):
Definitely. We see them in all of the classes that we go into and it's really important to remember that that behavior is communicating to us whether we know what they're communicating and then giving them replacements so that they can communicate more effectively when they have needs that are unmet.

Curtis Long (08:12):
I think that's important. You say giving them a a different way of communicating so that really the key is teaching them okay, you're not feeling well, maybe you're hungry. Maybe this isn't the way that you prefer to receive these kind of instructions. Maybe it's too loud. We just need to find a way to teach the kids to convey that message. 'cause they're coming in, you know, some of them are coming in at five years old, have never learned to convey that before.

Sarah Sadd (08:34):
Yeah, exactly. And then add in a bunch of emotions too. And your brain is a little bit shut down because you're dysregulated. So it's even harder to communicate in those moments. So using visuals is something we often do. And we have such amazing staff in North Clackamas that know these kids super well. So they're leaning in on their relationship with those students and that can help them.

Curtis Long (08:54):
I wanted to talk a little little bit about relationships and our staff members because let's face it, no student gets up in the morning and says, you know what? I'm gonna make life miserable for my teacher day. I'm gonna make it an awful day for them. And for our teachers to come back day after day and have that mindset of I'm here to care for this kid, this kid is still learning how to express their emotions. That really takes a special person to be able to do that. And we have so many staff members across our district who do that kind of thing every single day.

Sarah Sadd (09:20):
We absolutely do . They're amazing.

Kacy Lentz (09:22):
, the staff at North Clackamas are really dedicated and they're really receptive to hearing how we can encourage students and how we can support them when they have big behavior and how we can provide alternatives for them.

Curtis Long (09:38):
And Kacy, I was gonna ask you about that because you rotate from classroom to classroom different schools. So you see lots of different teachers and I'm sure let's be real, sometimes teachers can get very frustrated by students' behavior and they get to a point where I don't know what to do anymore. And I imagine it's kind of your job to kind of dial back a little bit and help them understand where the child is coming from. And you have to give our teachers credit. That's hard to do, especially in the moment when you're trying to instruct 29 30 other students. Tell us a little bit about your experiences working with teachers and other paraprofessionals who are maybe just learning this themselves.

Kacy Lentz (10:11):
Absolutely. All the paraprofessionals on the behavior team go into the classrooms and we are teaching other paraeducators how to work with students and we bring a toolbox with us. Mm-hmm . And we just wanna add to what they already are doing, encouraging them to go ahead and try new things, be confident in the work that you are doing and provide them with feedback and suggestions of different strategies to try with the student. And we don't have it all figured out right. But we can all work together to come up with new ideas.

Curtis Long (10:47):
Now I'm watching you two answer these questions. You're answering with a smile. You can tell you have a lot of pride in what you do. What brought you to this area of the profession? To work with kids and work with staff who are challenging themselves and challenging each other with behavior. Um,

Sarah Sadd (11:02):
I actually started as a preschool teacher and really gravitated.

Curtis Long (11:06):
Well that makes sense.

Sarah Sadd (11:08):
Gravitated towards the kiddos that did have those big behaviors and needed that extra love and support. Then I spent the last 12 years as a school psychologist. Mm-hmm and got some special training and trauma and started utilizing those skills for students that have significant traumatic experiences but really learned quickly that those um, things such as like regulating and relating can be good for all. Mm-hmm . Students and kids and people in general. So that is where my heart for really wanting to support not just one or two students but the whole community and give teachers more tools and strategies to be able to feel confident in that relationship that they have and come to work feeling safe and confident themselves.

Curtis Long (11:52):
And Kacy, you didn't go to teacher school to become a teacher yet here you are working in classrooms every day. How'd you come about that position?

Kacy Lentz (11:59):
I actually studied psychology at Portland State University. Okay. And I also worked in early childhood education. I was really drawn to helping students of varying backgrounds. I also have two students of my own in my home that have IEPs. Mm-hmm . So I'm supporting and advocating for them as a single mom. So I know that it's very important work.

Sarah Sadd (12:23):
She's really good at you

Kacy Lentz (12:24):
. She's really good. Thanks Sarah.

Curtis Long (12:25):
That's why she's here. 'cause she's really good at . And you rotate to different schools throughout the year. Yes. How rewarding is it for both of you when you work with a student, you first meet the student, they're really struggling and you get to a point where they're able to advocate for themselves in a positive way. How rewarding is that for you to see?

Sarah Sadd (12:44):
I, it is hard to describe how rewarding it is. I get really excited. I have a happy dance, I get to come in and for the student but also for the teachers and the staff. So a lot of my role is really coaching and navigating with the whole school team on developing the best plan for that student and getting to see their work and their passion and um, see that relationship grow and build And it's really amazing.

Curtis Long (13:09):
And I think sometimes and Kacy you would know this too, parents are on board with this. They, they know that their child struggles at home. They're probably fearful when they send their child to school that this is gonna happen. Must be rewarding too to work with parents and maybe give them some insights of how to help their children.

Kacy Lentz (13:24):
Absolutely. Being able to hear how the parents are encouraged to be involved in all of the planning and everything that we do to help support their student. It is really encouraging. Definitely.

Curtis Long (13:37):
Alright, so far we've been talking about modifying the behavior of one student at a time. But what if we wanna make an impact on the entire classroom at once? Well, as Dr. Azar explains, that's called group contingency and she tells a story about when she was consulted to help a high school with a tardy problem. Students were deliberately not getting to class on time and before calling her the school solution was to send the tardy students to detention. Let's listen to how Dr. Azar approached that problem.

Dr. Sharon Azar (14:00):
So we went to the Dollar General store and we borrowed three shopping cards, actually four. And then we went to Costco Sam's and we bought Takis. You guys know what Takis are, right? And so I said we are about to use reinforcement to shape behavior. So we called the team together, we did an assembly, we did videos and we said there's gonna be a person with a cart in the hallway. It's gonna be filled with Takis. That was the most preferred treat at that school. This is why we picked that. And if you are in your class, when the bell rings and everybody in your class is present, every kid will get a bag of Takis. That's called group contingency. Are you following me? Do you see how I said every kid is in there and they would be quick to tell you if a kid was absent?

Dr. Sharon Azar (15:00):
No, no, no, she's absent. Right? Because they wanted that contingency. So I am not exaggerating. Within a week we had kids running to class for a bag of Takis. So then we debrief with the behavior team and this lady said, what are you gonna do Dr. Azar give 'em Takis the rest of their life? I said, yeah, that's why I'm here. I give 'em Takis. No I'm not giving 'em Takis for the rest of their life. So I said, here's what we're gonna do next week they have to be in their class seated and working on the warmup activity. Do you see how I'm increasing the expectation for reinforcement? Thumbs up if you see that. That's called the science of behavior. We increase the demand and we decrease the frequency of reinforcement.

Curtis Long (16:00):
Okay. Increase the demands, decrease the frequency of reinforcement, science of behavior. I've got two experts sitting right next to me. Tell me a little bit more about the science of behavior.

Sarah Sadd (16:09):
Well I would say that's a lot of what we do on a daily basis. And it's um, cool to see when she was talking about like a group contingency, you get a lot more bang for your buck when you do use the whole group because they motivate each other. Yeah, the kids do. So that's like an added layer. But building slowly and consistently is really key when it comes to developing an intervention plan of that nature. Because if you jump too far, just like with reading, like we just taught you your ABCs, now we want you to read a chapter.

Curtis Long (16:37):
Right. Go read this chapter book.

Sarah Sadd (16:38):
Exactly. So this step by step is really important.

Curtis Long (16:41):
And Kacy, do you see that in the classrooms that you work with? Are you working more one-on-one with students or is there some group contingency with what you do?

Kacy Lentz (16:48):
There absolutely is group contingency. In the work that I do, I see it in classrooms. Teachers will have group contingencies where the whole class can contribute and they can earn a glow party or different kinds of incentives that teachers have for their classrooms. And it's really awesome to see them working together to earn something as a team.

Curtis Long (17:11):
So far we're, we're talking about a lot of behaviors with our youngest learners, our kindergartners, maybe our first graders. But we know behavior it exists all the way up through senior year of high school and probably even beyond. So Sarah, you've worked with middle schoolers, high schoolers probably as well. This still applies, right? The science of behavior.

Sarah Sadd (17:30):
Absolutely. and I love her example about Takis. Yeah. Because middle schoolers are very motivated by Takis. Um, and I really, you know, that idea, that natural consequence. So I think oftentimes in our secondary programs we are saying, oh you commit, you know, did this behavior so you're going to be excluded for something. But that's unintentionally could be reinforcing the behavior. And so getting to the underlying root of why a student isn't wanting to go to class, especially at the secondary level, looking at is there some anxiety? Is there a fear of, uh, lagging skill around math or reading? So figuring out that why and then also having that incentive within the classroom, not outside of the classroom. Which we see in elementary also . So that should be the most fun and exciting.

Curtis Long (18:14):
So you're saying the Takis really work, they really do those spicy chips. You guys have mentioned before some trauma informed practices and maybe some of our listeners don't quite know what that is. Can you break that down for us a little bit? Our students are coming to us with all kinds of things that have gone on in their lives before they ever reach the classroom.

Sarah Sadd (18:29):
Yes, absolutely. Trauma informed or trauma responsive education really speaks to the idea of understanding neurologically, how the brain might be affected by trauma. Whether that's a big T trauma or little T trauma.

Curtis Long (18:42):
Okay. Let's see. What's the difference between what's a big T trauma?

Sarah Sadd (18:46):
Big T trauma are things like hurricanes. Mm-hmm. COVID-19 would've been a big T trauma. Any significant physical abuse could be considered big T trauma. Little T trauma can be poverty, it could be things you experience on a day-to-day basis, but really it's up to the individual. So what may be a big T trauma to me might be a little T trauma to you.

Curtis Long (19:06):
And Kacy, I imagine you see big T and little T all over the place.

Kacy Lentz (19:10):
Definitely. We see it all over the classrooms and I think the most important thing is for us to have a lens that we don't know what's underneath that student's smile or maybe their behavior. We don't know what background they come from and we kind of have to be trauma assuming that they are going through a hard time so that we can have compassion and really help them where they are at.

Curtis Long (19:37):
I love that word you just used compassion. Because let, let's face it, behavior. It's hard. It's hard to deal with for a teacher, it's hard for an administrator, it's hard for the two of you. It's a difficult thing to deal with. But I think your word compassion and it's really amazing. I think how our teachers, our staff members, you really have to approach this through a lens of empathy for these kids. Because really, as I said before, they're not doing this on purpose and you kind of broke it down as well. Let's figure out what's causing this inside of them and you really have to look at this. And I think our teachers do a wonderful job of that every day. Coming back with a new sense of empathy for these children.

Sarah Sadd (20:11):
They absolutely do. Yeah. And just understanding that's the tip of the iceberg.

Kacy Lentz (20:15):
Also, just remembering that it's uncomfortable for the student as well. We are helping them through these really difficult behaviors and it's so uncomfortable for them and we are a safe place for them. Yeah. These behaviors to come out and to be expressed means that we are doing a great job, we are putting in the work and they feel comfortable with us to behave that way. Exactly.

Curtis Long (20:40):
That's a great point and we hope you're feeling comfortable enough to continue listening to this deep discussion about the the tricky task facing our NCSD professionals every day empathetically, understanding and managing student behavior. So far we've learned how behavior is a form of communication and the science behind behavior management still to come. How quickly can a student's negative behaviors be reversed by a little positive reinforcement?

Kacy Lentz (21:06):
Make it a big deal. We want to see them doing well and we want to praise them. I've done a lot of silly dances with students celebrating sitting in your chair yay!

Curtis Long (21:18):
And how our district's paraeducators serve as unsung heroes without wearing capes.

Sarah Sadd (21:24):
They are the backbone. I feel like in many, if not most situations, I can't imagine not having our amazing behavior paraeducators and the paras that we're working with. They're coming in and they're learning new things and they're picking them up so fast. It's really awesome to see.

Curtis Long (21:39):
And an awesome second half of the Proud To Be NCSD Podcast comes your way right after this.

Commercial Announcer (21:45):
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Curtis Long (22:40):
And I think what some of our listeners maybe don't know, we're talking about different ways of expressing behavior that we see in our school. So that could be anything from talking back, yelling out loud to physical aggression. And Dr. Azar talks a little bit about that. I don't know if we'll place some of that, but we see physical aggression among not only student to student but student to adults.

Sarah Sadd (22:59):
Yeah. Something to be aware of too, especially around physical aggression is that those students are kind of offline. So their prefrontal cortex is not necessarily firing at that point in time. So they're reacting with their emotions. And so using interventions that are more brain-based mm-hmm . Like some movement, some regulating things that they are calming to them to bring their neurological system back down before we talk about the natural consequence before we move forward and repair.

Curtis Long (23:29):
And I think consequence is something that comes up quite a bit and we heard Dr. Azar talk about it a little bit there. We want the consequence to be meaningful, not punitive. What are some ways that consequences come into play?

Sarah Sadd (23:40):
Lots of different ways. , I've seen so many different creative things too. Um, sometimes it's just the natural consequence of bummer we missed out on recess. Yeah. 'cause we

Curtis Long (23:49):
Were, yeah, I know I use that quite a bit as a principal saying, well shoot the, the clock says it's 12 o'clock, we missed it. Yeah. I guess we'll try again tomorrow.

Sarah Sadd (23:57):
Yes. Which is different than we're keeping you in from recess. Right. So that one that happens naturally. I think it's more meaningful to students to connect to those dots. I've also seen things that are more restorative in nature. So it might be, oh gosh, all the papers are everywhere. The office would really love for you to help clean that up and make it a beautiful space for our school. And then there's that meaning of, I made a mistake, but I could clean it up and make something beautiful again.

Curtis Long (24:24):
I like how Sarah described that there, Kacy and I can imagine when you're working one-on-one with a student, you really have to watch how you talk to them so they know that you care about them, but you're still trying to correct them. At the same time. We shouldn't have anyone talking down to students or yelling at students. But you really come at it with a lens of, okay, let's take a look at what we just did and how are we gonna fix this.

Kacy Lentz (24:44):
Definitely you have to be stern and direct with the students, but be compassionate and kind. Like I said, you need to make sure they know what is expected of them. And like Sarah said, there is going to be consequences. One that comes to mind for me is sometimes a student will hit another student and then they don't wanna play with them. And that's a natural consequence that comes up a lot. Yeah. And we say, you know, that student has a right to safety and it does hurt your feelings. And then we can problem solve and work through it.

Sarah Sadd (25:19):
Kacy, one thing you said that we often say clear is kind. Um, having those boundaries and clear expectations is really, really important for students who have experienced trauma. But really all students in general.

Curtis Long (25:31):
And one thing I think you hear listeners from both of our guests today is the positivity behind them. And one thing that has kind of been a connecting thread through our conversation has been the need for constant positive reinforcement. And Dr. Azar talks about that as well.

Dr. Sharon Azar (25:44):
The fastest way that you can shape behavior is through positive reinforcement. And I wanna say that again. The fastest way you can shape behavior is through positive reinforcement along with consequences. You can't have one without the other. The consequence when they weren't in there was they didn't get talkies do. Do you see how there was a built in consequence to that? And so when we use that together to shape their behavior, so I tell that story, we're gonna circle back around to physical aggression because we can change physical aggression and we can put into place that when you use your hands, when, when you, let's just go way back. Let's start, I'm gonna make it real simple. When you use your words instead of your hands, you will get a star. You see how simple that is when you use your words. I don't even care if they're raising their voice when they use their words, but if they're using words and not hands, they get a star. When they get three stars, they get a reinforcement. Thumbs up, are you following me? It's a very high rate of reinforcement. The more significant the behavior, the more high you want that rate of reinforcement to be at the beginning because the kid has to see that you mean what you say because you're building trust with that student.

Dr. Sharon Azar (27:29):
I thought we were doing beautiful. We were passing out stars. The kid gets three, he needed four to get his Legos. He had a meltdown before he reached his fourth. Do you know what that told us? We had to adjust it. We had to give reinforcement after three instead of four. So we shifted.

Curtis Long (27:52):
Okay. As we're playing that clip, both of you are nodding along, smiling at each other. You've lived this. Right? So let's talk a little bit about positive reinforcement and how important it's Yes.

Kacy Lentz (28:02):
, I see it every day. Yeah. In the classroom, positive reinforcement is so necessary for a student to do well and to succeed. I think of it as catch them doing what's expected. Mm-hmm . Acknowledge it and praise them. Make it a big deal. We want to see them doing well and we want to praise them. Whether it's with a token board like Dr. Azar mentioned, you can do stars. You can do a lot of different creative ways to celebrate. I've done a lot of silly dances with students celebrating sitting in your chair.

Curtis Long (28:42):
Yay. Oh, it's too bad we don't have any video on this podcast.

Kacy Lentz (28:46):
.

Sarah Sadd (28:47):
Yeah. I think the key that Kacy is talking about too is we're celebrating the tiny little steps. Right? So they, even if they're yelling but they're not hitting. Okay. And so really reinforcing those tiny, tiny steps towards that bigger actual behavior that we want to see. Yeah. I will say it's so challenging in the classroom when you have other students. Sure. And you're teaching and you're also trying to reinforce. But I've seen some real magic around positive reinforcement with our teachers

Curtis Long (29:14):
Because a lot of times we're expecting teachers, right? As they're teaching others, they're teaching their classroom, but they need to zip over to that student's area and put another star on their chart or get to the back of the room and put another star there. That's tricky to do when you've got a big group of kids you're trying to teach.

Sarah Sadd (29:30):
It is. And we've seen some really creative amazing things where there's teachers that have like a little like bunny ears, , and they know that that's like, I see you and you're doing great work. I've seen it whole class too. Like, oh my gosh, this person, this person, this person. Or I just wanna pause for a second. We're gonna do a silent celebration. Oh my goodness. I love that. I'm seeing, I love that. All of whatever it is. So

Curtis Long (29:53):
I love that. And we spent a lot of time praising our North Clackamas teachers. They really do do amazing things, but a lot of that is because of the support that people like you guys play. And I know you have a whole behavior team. How often do you guys meet together? Do you get a chance to debrief with each other?

Sarah Sadd (30:06):
Yes. It's really important that we're doing that because, um, the more we put our heads together, the stronger we are as a team. Um, we're all coming from lots of different backgrounds. So we get to meet at least once a week as a whole team and then we try to work together in pair and be as collaborative as possible when we're helping support teams.

Curtis Long (30:24):
Now all of you have dealt with say a kindergartner first month of school and you've probably thought in your mind, okay, this is gonna be a long haul, but eventually you make that road. How rewarding is it to see that kid later on second, third grade maybe doesn't need the support anymore? They figured it out

Kacy Lentz (30:41):
Even this year. Okay. We have seen kindergartners from last year grow leaps and bounds integrating skills advancing in academics. I mean having peers on the playground, , how that sounds silly. Sure. But for a student who's nonverbal being able to say their friend's name mm-hmm . And play, it's so rewarding to see them engaged in music and in PE And to see the teachers accommodating these students in specials, it is so rewarding to watch them grow and thrive in North Clackamas.

Curtis Long (31:21):
And let's think about that for a second. Because those kids came likely in kindergarten without any of those tools. They didn't know how to access those. They didn't know what to do. And because of people like our guests today and are amazing teachers that we have and our administrators, they've learned how to utilize those tools. And like you said, that kinda brings a tear to my eye. The kid who had no friends on the playground, wasn't able to interact all of a sudden knows their names and knows where to go on the playground. And I'm gonna slide down the slide with this kid all during the next 15 minutes. That's really awesome.

Kacy Lentz (31:48):
And it's all made possible by collaboration, all of us together working for the good of the students.

Curtis Long (31:54):
That's right. There's nothing that people are usually solving on their own. And sometimes I'm sure teachers come to you with hands in the air saying, I don't know what to do next. I've tried everything. That's really the purpose of our district behavior team.

Sarah Sadd (32:06):
Yes, absolutely. We're there next step when their toolbox, they've tried all of those options. So we just keep trying to make ours bigger so we have more to provide.

Curtis Long (32:13):
Interviewing the two of you again, you're, you're smiling, you are, you're listening to these insights. Do you guys ever have hard days? Is there ever a day when you think, oh my goodness, that was a tough one. It seems to me like the behavior just kinda rolls off you and we'll try it again tomorrow.

Sarah Sadd (32:27):
I mean there is a lot of rolling off , but we do have hard days. Yeah. And we lean on each other a lot and we use our own self-care strategies I think are important.

Kacy Lentz (32:37):
I think it's important for anyone in North Clackamas that has a challenging day, we all are gonna have them to make sure you have at least one or two trusted people in your network that you can just talk to about what you're going through. Some of the things that we go through, it's really tough. Mm-hmm . Sometimes it's actually painful, right? Like Dr. Azar said, we don't want anybody to get hurt. But the reality is your feelings can get hurt. You could accidentally get hurt physically and having somebody to debrief with or just to say, Hey, I had a rough day. Can we get coffee? Mm-hmm . And go on a walk to the coffee shop. The simple things that we can carve out a moment at every school. I think that that is the biggest thing we could do.

Sarah Sadd (33:25):
And it's okay to tap out. We tap out

Kacy Lentz (33:27):
. Yes, we do.

Curtis Long (33:29):
. That's a good point. I mean, even as an administrator, I will say there are times when I've had to walk away. Okay. I'm reaching my frustration limit. I don't want the child to know that. Mm-hmm . I'm gonna walk away for a little bit and I need someone else to step in. Yeah.

Sarah Sadd (33:42):
It's not easy to do.

Curtis Long (33:43):
No, it's not easy to do.

Kacy Lentz (33:45):
It's definitely necessary.

Sarah Sadd (33:47):
, the one thing I would love to share is just thank you for letting us come into your schools and help support you all. Um, we just see such amazing things every day and I feel really grateful to be on this team to get to go from multiple school to multiple school and see all of the great work that's being done.

Kacy Lentz (34:04):
I also would like to say thank you to all of the classroom teachers for being so accepting and understanding. When we're training paraeducators and we're chatting in the back of the classrooms and they don't know what we're doing in their schools and they welcome us with open arms and just say, Hey, can I help you find the bathroom when you're at a school you've never been in or any of the simplest things, here's a staff room, feel free to have coffee. Those things are really kind to us and we are all working together for the students. So working with the teachers on a behavior plan and everything altogether is really nice. And I

Curtis Long (34:43):
Think we have to remember paraeducators, they're assistants to the teacher. They didn't go to teaching school, they don't have a teaching license. They're putting themselves mm-hmm . In that classroom every day just because they love children and they want to help. And their dedication really pays off because people like you are helping mentor them. But what indifference our paraeducators are making in our school district that a lot of times doesn't get recognized.

Sarah Sadd (35:05):
They are the backbone. I feel like in many, if not most situations, I can't imagine not having our amazing behavior para educators and the paras that we're working with. They're coming in and they're learning new things and they're picking them up so fast. It's really awesome to see.

Kacy Lentz (35:20):
And to that point, the paraeducators in the classrooms are eager to learn. They want to know, how do I help this student? I'm not sure, but I want to expand my toolbox. I want to be able to do my best job And grow every day with them.

Curtis Long (35:36):
Well, as we say many times on the Proud To Be NCSD podcast, the purpose is to provide our community members and other listeners around the country an inside look at what's going on within our North Clackamas classrooms. And of course a lot of talk these days seems to center around student behavior. And rightfully so. Students can't learn when they feel uncomfortable or unsafe within their school environment. But as you've hopefully learned today, north Clackamas is very proactive when it comes to addressing and managing student behavior rather than reactive. And two people out in front of that are Sarah Sadd and Kacy Lentz, Sarah and Kacy along with all of our staff members who work with students each and every day. Thanks so much for everything you do and for being a part of our podcast today.

Sarah Sadd (36:14):
Thank you so much for having us.

Kacy Lentz (36:16):
Thank you.

Curtis Long (36:18):
Thanks for listening to The Proud To Be NCSD podcast. In North Clackamas. We know that education is a community effort and we're so thankful that you and your family are a part of our community. Until next time, remember, there are always great things to see wherever you go in NCSD.