This podcast contains the personal stories, opinions and experiences of its speakers, rather than those of Breast Cancer Now.

If you're a regular listener to this show, then you will have heard so many different stories of people's breast cancer experiences with challenges along the way. But today's episode is a really, really positive, happy story of Lucy, who was diagnosed when she was 25 and went on to freeze her eggs and have a happy little baby who at the time of recording today is three months old. So if today... you are really in need of a happy story then this is the one for you so go ahead and have a listen.
Today's guest is Lucy Dawson, who was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2020 when she was just 25. Lucy wanted a family, so she decided to preserve her fertility through egg freezing. A few years later, she's had a beautiful baby girl, so we'll be talking about all things egg preservation and pregnancy after breast cancer. We'll also talk about starting a family, raising awareness, and what it's like to be diagnosed with breast cancer at such a young age. Lucy. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

So why don't you start by telling us a little bit about your life before diagnosis. So you were 24 and we were in the first COVID lockdown. What was life like for you up to that point?

Life was really normal. It was great, but it was just very normal. I was a very normal 24 year old, had a full time job, a very big, close family, had a partner. I lived a very carefree, quite selfish life I want to say. did a lot of things that I wanted to do, spent my money how I wanted to spend it and I had no worries at all.

And how did you come to be diagnosed with breast cancer?

So like you said it was in the lockdown. We'd gone into lockdown in the March of 2020 and then uh in the June I discovered a rash under my left armpit and I didn't think anything of it really but because of the Covid lockdown we were having to make GP appointments over the phone and do video calls. So I called my GP and they said to me, oh, it looks like you've got eczema or some sort of skin rash under your armpit. They prescribed me with some cream and they said if it doesn't go away in two weeks, then come back to us. After the two weeks passed, there was no lumps or anything like that. I just started to get a slight dimpling in the skin on my breast. So I went back and they referred me to Burton Hospital for a mammogram. And obviously mammograms, as we know, for ladies, tends to be 40 plus. I'd never had one.

Often 50 plus

Yeah, yeah. I'd never had one. So I went to have one and they couldn't find anything, they said. Obviously because of my age and periods, etc, my breast tissue was really dense and they said it's quite lumpy anyway. So they couldn't find anything. They also did a ultrasound and they couldn't find anything on there either, but I just had a gut feeling in my stomach that something wasn't quite right. The dimpling had got quite a lot worse. And I actually ended up having an MRI scan, which discovered a seven centimetre tumour in my breast.

Did you, because we talk so much about finding a lump. and not many people know, I mean, I don't think I knew at 24 that a rash under the armpit and a dimpling of the breast could mean breast cancer. Did you have, when you say you had an inkling, did you have an inkling that it could be breast cancer?

Well, like everyone does, the first thing you do is Google symptoms that you have. When it was the rash, I didn't think anything of it. I was quite active at work and I just thought maybe the sweat, et cetera, got under my armpit and it caused a rash. When the dimpling started, I was a little bit more concerned. So obviously I Googled my symptoms and it came up that it can be a sign of breast cancer. But I thought to myself, I'm 25 years old. This isn't gonna be me. But I had a gut feeling when it didn't really go away. And then from then I started checking quite regularly to see if I could find a lump and I couldn't. And it turns out it was. right at the back of my breast, like behind a lot of the tissue. So I would never have felt it anyway.

So the MRI found the tumour and you were told it was cancer. How did that feel?

The main thing that I remember is it was really terrifying because I wasn't allowed anybody in the room with me because it was COVID. So I was allowed someone into the hospital with me, but I got called into the room by myself and I walked in and there was a doctor and a Macmillan nurse. And I thought to myself, there wouldn't be a Macmillan nurse in here if this wasn't bad news. So I sat down and he told me about the results and he started saying to me all these things about grades and stages and types of cancer. And this to me was like, he might as well have been speaking in a foreign language because you don't understand any of that. I'd not really looked into it or anything. And then as soon as you hear the word cancer, everything else in the room just seemed like white noise. didn't listen to, I don't think I listened to anything else that he said. And then naturally when you leave, everyone, all your friends and family are asking you X amount of questions and you don't really remember the conversation itself that you had with the doctor. It's really strange.

Yeah, I was on my own for mine as well. I was 29, so a bit older than you, but I was also on my own because often you've been, when you get diagnosed when you're so young, you've, probably been through appointments with people saying it's probably nothing. And so by the time it gets to that appointment, I mean, your reason was because of lockdown, you couldn't have anyone in there, but I didn't have anyone in the room because I didn't think that I was gonna be told any bad news. And you need that person there with you because there's just so much information that gets thrown at you.

You're relying on someone else to listen to what the doctor's saying because you've just been told what feels like at the time, well it is life changing information. And you just don't, you don't take it in because I agree, I had convinced myself and I think a lot of doctors that I'd seen in appointments before were like, oh, you're very young for us to see you in here. We've not seen anyone in here before of your age. And I'd sort of convinced myself that I would be fine. So then when he told me that it was cancer, it did take a while, quite a while to sink in.

It's not very helpful is it when they say to you, you're very young, you're like. I know. Yeah, but I'm here. You've called me here.

So yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're definitely. I had that a lot the whole way through, even through my chemo cycles and everything. Oh, you're young to be in here.

Yeah. Even now, I imagine.

So what month of lockdown was this? Because we all remember 2020. July. July. I got diagnosed on the 17th of July, 2020.

And do you think lockdown made it more difficult, the cancer experience? Or do you think that were the ways that it was easier because you're at home with your partner?

It was very split because I felt like I wasn't really missing out on anything because no one was doing anything. So obviously I wasn't allowed to travel and I wasn't allowed to really go out the house and mix with people. I wasn't allowed to work, had low immune system, but a lot of people were doing the same. So in that sense, I was quite glad that it happened in lockdown, but it was also really difficult because I didn't live, I had my own house. I lived with my partner and obviously during the rules of lockdown, I didn't see a lot of family members. And when you get diagnosed with something like that really, you want to be surrounded by your closest friends and family. And I didn't see a lot of them apart from on FaceTime.

So yours was a HER2 positive cancer.

Correct, yeah.

What treatments did you then have and surgeries as well?

So they went through a treatment plan with me and they said that my cancer was grade three, which means luckily they'd caught it early and it hadn't spread, but grade three cells they said are very fast spreading. So they overloaded me with information and I literally started chemo a few weeks after my diagnosis. And I had 12 rounds of chemotherapy followed by surgery, lumpectomy, and then I had 10 rounds of radiotherapy. And then after that, I went on herceptin for nine months.

And how are you now in terms of your breast cancer?

I got given the all clear on the 8th of April, 2021. So all in all, about nine months worth of treatment before I got given the all clear. I still get checked now every six months and I still have yearly appointments with my oncologist, but touch wood, everything's going very well.

And you're not having any more treatment now?

I'm not on any treatment now.

Did you have any history of breast cancer in your family?

My auntie had breast cancer, but a long, long time ago. And she's still here all clear now. She's been all clear for it. quite a few number of years now. But it wasn't the same type of breast cancer as me. Apart from that, my family has not been affected touch wood by cancer at all of any sorts.

But your auntie had it while she was younger.

Yyeah, while she was younger. But other than that, there'd been no other cancer history at all in my family through generations.

Yeah, did you mean that your auntie's was breast cancer?

Yeah, my auntie was breast cancer.

Yeah, because I think her history in the family is So a history of breast cancer in the family is always relevant. I don't think it matters if one person's was HER2 positive and the others was oestrogen positive. My auntie had triple negative breast cancer and I have oestrogen positive breast cancer. But I think if there is any history of it in the family, then it's always good to keep in mind. It's always good to tell the doctor when you go to them with any signs and symptoms.

And I have quite a lot of women in my family. Like I have a sister, my sister's got a daughter. I've obviously now got a daughter. um and I've got four aunties. And I just think it's really pushed them as well to check themselves and take it, not more seriously, but I think until it happens to you or someone really close to you, we are quite not checking ourselves enough and listening to symptoms and listening to our body. now me and my family, well, I do it religiously. I have a timer on my phone that goes off on the first of every month and it says check check your boobs. And it's not something I would have ever probably done before.

Yeah. And if there are other women listening, say in their early twenties, for example, or in their twenties who have been diagnosed with breast cancer, are there any support and services that helped you when you were going through the breast cancer that you would recommend?

When I was going through mine, there was a lot of communities that I found on social media, on Facebook for people who were under a certain age, which I found really, really beneficial at the start, just to sometimes talk to other people and vent about how you're feeling. But also just check out local groups in your area. There was a, there's a place where I lived in Tamworth that was a drop in and chat session. And you just went with a member of your family and you went and had a cup of tea and a piece of cake and you all just sat really openly and spoke about it because I think sometimes it can be quite a taboo topic. And I just think, don't be scared to go out. and speak to other people because whatever you're feeling, there's gonna be hundreds of people that are feeling the same. And I was so nervous being the only young person, but now I've found other people who were the same age as me or a little bit older or even a little bit younger. And some of them now are lifelong friends that I'll have forever.

Yeah. And breast cancer now has some brilliant resources as well. They've got the Someone Like Me service where you can be matched up with someone who is maybe a similar age to you going through a similar thing. It always helps, doesn't it? Just talking to someone who gets what you're going through.

Yeah, well, breast cancer now have been fantastic. I've done a few bits with them over the years, and whether that's just chatting to people or sharing my story, or they've shared my story on their Instagram when I did my pink ribbon walk, and people comment and like and share, and that's how you spread positivity.

So let's talk about the fertility side.

Okay.

When did you realise that breast cancer treatment could have an impact on your fertility?

They told me literally a couple of days after I got diagnosed. And again, I'm not sure whether it was to do with my age. They said to me, this is the diagnosis that you've had. We need to start chemotherapy as soon as possible. However, we are going to give you the chance to freeze your eggs because your chemotherapy can make you infertile. And it was a thing I'd not even thought about egg freezing. Obviously, I didn't know whether I even wanted a family. I was still quite young. I was doing really well in my career. I was thinking it's definitely not something that I want now, but I don't want that control to be taken off me and be told that I'm not, I can't have them when I want them. eh So I had a conversation with my partner at the time, because obviously it's a massive thing that people don't think about the other people that are involved. and they gave me the option to either freeze embryos or to freeze eggs and I decided to freeze eggs. So I went to a fertility clinic in Nottingham and all this was done one week, two weeks after my diagnosis because they said you need to decide. You need to do this because we need to start treatment. So I had around a week or 10 days worth of injections and then they harvested 13 eggs which are now frozen in the clinic.

So you just did the one round of

Just did the one round. Yeah.

It's a uh really difficult question. I remember when the same happened to me and I was offered that option and they said, would you like to embryos? I was like, what? I was single and there was no one that I knew that I would freeze embryos with. But yeah.

But I just thought to myself, that's too much for me. I'm having so much other information thrown at me at the moment. I'm just gonna freeze my eggs. And it's absolutely amazing what they can do. I froze 16 and they did some tests and said that three of them weren't right. So just the 13 frozen. And they said that they keep them for about 40 years.

Yeah, and you have to pay. Do you have to pay, so... I know you have to pay if you get egg freezing not to do with cancer. If you've had cancer treatment, do you still have to pay an annual fee to keep them frozen?

No. Oh, that's good.

No, I haven't had to pay anything to keep

OK. Oh, that's brilliant. One tiny, you know, slightly easier

perk.

Yeah, I didn't want to go perk.

yeah. And sometimes when we talk about egg freezing, because you have to stimulate your oestrogen to create those, to harvest those eggs basically. But your cancer wasn't oestrogen receptor positive. So you didn't, there was no issue there for you,

I assume. No, I went on, I think it was seven days worth of injections and I had to just inject myself every night. And then it was a certain injection that you had to do 24 hours before they were harvested. And then I went into clinic and I was in and out in the same day, just sedation. And it was. It was actually a really smooth procedure. was a lot easier than I thought it was gonna be.

Yeah, brilliant.

So fast forward a few years, at what point did you then decide we're gonna try and have a baby?

Well, after my cancer, I didn't even think about it. I thought, right, I just wanna get my life somewhat back to normal. So I went back to work, etc. And... I went back on contraception, but obviously because of my breast cancer, they only allowed me to go on one type of contraception, which was the copper coil, because it's not hormone based. So I was on that for a while. And then we didn't even think about, because I'd been told that there was a high percentage chance that I wouldn't have children, we didn't even think about it. It wasn't something that we'd had a conversation about to say, we're going to try. And actually she was... a lovely surprise. But we found out about her in October last year and then she was born in June, just gone.

So you basically answered the question. So you didn't use your frozen eggs uh because you got pregnant naturally.

I did.

Great.

Which was amazing. She's my little miracle. Yeah.

And you're still really young to, you know, to have your, have your first child.

Yeah. I'm 30 now. So I didn't do any. mad 30th celebrations because I was seven months pregnant. But I just thought this is something that I never thought would happen for me, especially naturally. And when I took a pregnancy test and it was positive, I think I took about four or five because I just didn't believe it. And we were absolutely over the moon. She's the best thing ever.

When your cancer is oestrogen positive and you're taking drugs like Tamoxifen, which I know you're not. you're often advised to wait a few years before potentially getting pregnant because there's that oestrogen risk in pregnancy. But you didn't have to think about all of that stuff, which makes you little bit freer.

They advise me to wait 18 months to two years because I was on Zolodex and I was injecting myself and they said this can obviously have an impact on your ovaries. They said we recommend waiting 18 months to two years before you try and have a baby. But even when that two year mark came. I wasn't in a position that we were trying. So luckily I'd waited a lot longer than that, I'm 30 now. So I was 29 when I fell pregnant. So we were knocking on for nearly five years until I just started to try anyway.

I mean, and actually when you have chemotherapy, when you're 24, there is a incredibly high chance that you'll still be able to get pregnant later on. You know, even without those frozen eggs, you've, know lots of people who have, you know, had successful pregnancies after that. And I think the younger you are, probably the easier it is, the more chance that you'll still be fertile, even after chemo.

Yeah, massively. I think it's really important to just cling on to any positive stories that you hear about that, because when you get diagnosed with cancer, if you also get told that there's a chance that you can't have children, it just seems like all of these negative things are being thrown at you. eh And it's so important to try and find people who have got really positive stories to tell, because that would have really helped me when I was getting told all of these things. And that's why we've got you here today, because you are the positive story.

And what about pregnancy after breast cancer? Were you advised um that it was safe and were you told that there were particular precautions that you needed to take?

So when I first got diagnosed, when I first got pregnant sorry, I had my eight week scan and I'd recently moved from the Midlands up to Manchester. So all of my history with... Burton Hospital and Derby Hospital had been moved up to Greater Manchester. So I was dealing with a whole new team of people in the breast clinic and the oncologists up in Manchester. So I told them all that I'd had breast cancer. However, it was X amount of years ago. Is it safe? Do I need any precautions? And they did a few tests on me. I had extra scans just to make sure that everything was going okay. and they also did some ultrasounds because I didn't have any milk ducts in the breast that I had cancer in.

So ultrasounds of the breast rather than of your belly with the baby.

Yeah, so they had ultrasounds of the breast and I had two of those during my pregnancy. it was all around, that was the only main thing, main issue is that I wasn't able to breastfeed and it wasn't something that they offered me. They advised against it because of my cancer history. They said, obviously all the milk ducts have gone out of this breast. So naturally with pregnancy, it didn't get bigger. It didn't produce milk. So that was the only real thing that happened during my pregnancy that's really cancer related. The hospital were really good and they did do extra scans and they did extra ultrasounds on the baby every four weeks. And there was no issues. They just, it was fine.

Oh, the hospital team sound like they were brilliant. It's so lovely to hear those positive stories.

They were brilliant. I was a bit worried because I'd got so used to the team at Burton. Some of the midwives at Burton Hospital are like best friends of mine now. And I was worried about going up to a whole new team of people, but everyone that you meet is just fantastic.

And could you not breastfeed with the other breast?

They said that I could, but they said it was highly likely that I would get mastitis and other sort of infections because of the amount of say, pressure on that one boom. So they just advised against it. They said to me that I could, but I decided just not to in the end.

And has that had any emotional effect on you not being able to breastfeed?

I did want to for a while, but I think once I got my head around it that I was doing it for my own health as well. And it's created such a nice bond between my daughter and her dad. The birth itself, I had a uh cesarean and while I was recovering from that, it was really nice to also have the baby reliant on me 24 seven for feeds. And it was really lovely to be able to share those duties in the first few weeks.

So you mean you're both feeding her basically, bottle feeding her.

Yeah. And I didn't have to do all the night feeds on my own.

And she's called Harper, she's three months old. And you said she's a daddy's girl already.

She is a massive daddy's girl. Her face lights up every time Chris gets home from work. Yeah, she's wonderful.

And how did pregnancy feel for you? Were you extra vigilant of your boobs and your body? And did you have any anxieties around it or were you chill?

I definitely wasn't chill. I think one massive anxiety thing is you always worry that you're gonna pass something on to your baby. That was my biggest worry. And even though I got tested for the genes when I was diagnosed and they came back negative, I didn't have either like the BRCA gene or any of the other test genes that they test for. I was really worried that there was obviously something abnormal in me to make me get cancer so young. And I was really worried that I would pass that on to my daughter. And like I said, the hospital were amazing again and they were very reassuring that that wasn't the case. But other than that, I was really anxious about that.

But that was Are you still anxious about that?

I don't think that will ever go away as a parent anyway about your child ever getting poorly. But when you've got a history yourself, I think it does naturally play on your mind a little bit more. I'm hoping it doesn't take over. Because I suffer from not anxiety, but I have. health anxiety naturally being diagnosed with something so young. And I am very good now at checking my breasts and everything like that. But I think naturally as a mom, I am very worried about her.

I think every mom is very worried about lots of things.

Whether cancer related or not, you're worried as a mom, don't you?

And how do you find motherhood otherwise?

It's the best thing in the world. Yeah, I feel like I have a sense of purpose and I feel like... Like I said, she's just a miracle because I never thought that she would come, especially naturally. And I just feel like I've really got, like she's a massive sense of achievement for me.

And you still got those eggs frozen as well. How do you think about those eggs?

I think about them sometimes and I think, will I ever use them? And you just don't know. Like I'm still very young. You don't know what's going to happen in the future. eh And I, if I look back now and I'm 100 % glad that I definitely froze them.

Yeah, it's really nice to know that they're there and you can use them at some point. How has your partner coped throughout your diagnosis and then pregnancy?

Fantastic. I think people forget that there is someone else involved, not just the person who's being diagnosed. him and my family are the most supportive people. I felt like everyone wrapped me in cotton wool for years. And it weirdly, it brought us all closer together as a family. Something so horrible eh did bring us a lot, lot closer. And it makes you realise to not really take life for granted, not take your health for granted. And now we've just got the attitude of a couple and as a family as let's just do it because we don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring.

You said yourself that there aren't that many, there weren't that many positive stories when you had breast cancer. of people successfully having pregnancies, especially not people as young as you. So what would you say to any other women who are going through breast cancer who know or perhaps are unsure if they want to become mums someday down the line or parents?

I would say hopefully my story can bring some positivity to anyone that's going through a difficult time at the moment. It is an amazing thing being a mum. And I would just say Just listen to your body. Don't put pressure on yourself. It doesn't have to happen by a certain age. It doesn't have to happen naturally. It can happen through egg freezing and other forms. And I just think try and stay positive. And I know it sounds so cliche, but you just really have to try and stay positive and not stress. And that, that does wonders for your body.

And just going back to before your diagnosis and obviously we're in COVID, so that made it different. Did you feel you were taken seriously as a woman in your early twenties? When you came to them with those symptoms?

em I think when I first went with the rash, they easily just gave me some cream and just thought, do I get on with it? I think when I had the ultrasound and the mammogram and they didn't find anything, I think I could have quite easily just said, okay, because as medical professionals, you listen to what they're saying to you. And it was actually myself that pushed for an MRI. I wasn't originally offered an MRI. I was told that they didn't find anything. And if the symptoms got worse or if I started to feel a lump or anything, then to come back. And I actually put my foot down and said, I want some more reassurance than this. And I don't think at that point I was taken seriously. And I'm not sure if it was because of my age, but I felt like I really had to force to get an answer. I look back at that now and I think if I hadn't pushed for that MRI, I don't know where I would be.

That's really scary. We hear a lot of stories about women who have to put their foot down, as you say, abdicate for yourselves. And I've done the same for myself, unfortunately, quite a few times. What can we do about that? what can we... Because the reason why medical teams... don't give an MRI scan to every woman who comes to them with a breast lump, because it is so often, I think in the majority of cases, uh pain in the breast or a lump in the breast is just a hormonal thing. The majority of cases are not breast cancer. What can we do to make sure the right tests are given to the right people and we're not slipping through the cracks as you could have done?

I just think that's why it's so important to also know all of the other signs and symptoms as well. I just think trust your gut. I think as cliche as it sounds, you know your body better than anyone else. And it is scary how many people are getting turned away and how many people are on waiting lists for scans. But I just think everyone needs to stick together and everyone just needs to shout about your health is so, so important.

I think it's also, cause it's impossible to know, you if you're sent away, we're taught to trust our medical teams, our GPs and our certainly oncologists. And if you're sent away saying it's nothing, then it's really, really hard then to come back and say, no, no, no, I think it is something, even if you're, you know, you're just going off your gut. What do we know as, non-medical professionals?
But I think for me, the key difference is time. think if you're still experiencing symptoms. within a couple of weeks or a month, or they're really not going away, or they're getting worse, then absolutely go back.

Yeah, and I just think don't be afraid of putting your foot down. I think we are taught to just accept what medical professionals tell us. eh And I'm not saying that they're all wrong, because they're definitely not. eh But I just think we know ourselves better than they know us. And I would just say to anyone, never ever be afraid to go back to the doctor two, three, four times with the same thing. You're not wasting time. You're not wasting a GP's time. You're definitely not wasting your own time. So if you feel like something's wrong, I would go as hard as you do until you get reassurance or answers.

And that's literally what they're there for. And sometimes you might get someone on an off day who is really busy and harassed and says no, no it's nothing and actually what you need is another five minutes with a different doctor or with that doctor.

And think it's so easy sometimes when you call the GP and you're in a queue or you can't get in for X amount of time to just leave it.

Give up, yeah.

Yeah, and I think it's just really important to persevere and if you have to go through an emergency or you have to go to a different doctor then that's what you do.

You seem like a really confident person and you said that you were happy to put your foot down with the doctors, but a lot of people don't feel that confident in a medical setting. And if they're told no by a GP or by a hospital doctor, they will take that as a no and they will leave. How did you, like, were you always a confident person and did that come naturally to you to push?

I think it came naturally with my cancer diagnosis because I did have a real gut feeling that something wasn't right. But before that, I was quite blasé with going to the doctors. I wasn't necessarily overly confident. Sometimes I didn't go to doctor's appointments and it really angers me to say that now eh because all I do is say to other people, have you been and got that checked? um And now whenever I go to the doctors, I do push a lot more. I ask a lot more questions. I write everything down. in my phone if I've gone to an appointment by myself, or I take someone with me if I don't remember all the information that someone's telling me. But it is really easy to push it aside and say, okay, I just accept what the doctor's telling you, but I wish I'd always been as forceful as I am now.

Yeah, it's always a good option to A, take someone with you and B, write everything down. And as an added bonus, get the person who's with you to write everything down as well. Cause often your notes will be like

the notes section on my phone now is crazy.

What I also do is have a saved and pinned note in my phone, which is questions for the oncologist because my appointments might be three months apart or six months apart or whatever. And if a question comes up to me one night when I'm trying to go to sleep, I'll just write it down in there. And then the next time I go and see them, I will ask that question. That's obviously if it's not an urgent question.

I used to have like a journal when I had cancer and I have never been one to keep a journal. But I had one and it had questions in the back and that's what I would use to write down all my questions for my oncologist. And then each day it had a little page that said like, am I positive for? And I would open it every morning, write down what I was positive for and then I'd have all my questions. And then when I was in the hospital and I was reading the questions out to the oncologist, I would always see those little positive bits in the journal and I would think, do you know what? We're gonna have a good day.

That's lovely, I really like that. I love a gratitude journal. Love just writing down, was happy to have a piece of cake today.

Yeah, and it's little things like that. It's so nice, you have to really pull on any positives that you've got when you're going through something so difficult. And it might be as simple as, I went on a really nice walk with the dog or I had a really nice piece of cake today or. I spoke to my friend on the phone for an hour and it was little things like that that used to get me through.

Good advice for anyone, not just anyone going through cancer.

Yeah, anyone. Get a gratitude journal.

How do you look after your mental health through all of this?

When it comes to mental health, I think obviously it's so important people talk about it at the moment, it's everywhere. I think that was one thing that if I'd been diagnosed now, there would be a lot more support for than when I got diagnosed in 2020. And I think it's because naturally you have days where I did have, I come across really positive now and I have had luckily a very positive story, but there was days, don't get me wrong, where I would not get out of bed and I would not leave the house. And when the chemotherapy set in and I started to lose my hair and lose my eyebrows, lose my eyelashes, and I'd put on quite a lot of weight because I was on steroids, et cetera. I just wanted to hide because I felt like a different, I just didn't feel like me. And when I look back at photos now of when I was going through chemotherapy, I know it's me, but it doesn't, it feels like it was a different life. It feels really, really strange.

What impact did COVID have on all of that, on top of that, if any?

Just naturally feeling, I think, It's really strange because you've got so many people around you who would do anything for you and your family and friends and everyone is there to support you. But you also have never, I never felt lonelier. And it's really bizarre feeling when everyone is asking what they can do for you and saying, do you need help with anything? But you feel so lonely because all you want is someone who gets it. And I didn't have anyone that got why I was feeling a certain way. And in COVID with seeing less people and if I was allowed, if I had the energy to go out and go for a walk, I would go out and my mind would just spiral into, know, what does next week look like for me? What does six months time look like for me? People are planning things and I don't even know what the future looks like for me at the moment. And I think COVID made it quite hard because I spent a lot of time naturally in the house, a lot of time looking on social media. And a lot of the time there's a lot of bad stories over there is good. And that's what you read, unfortunately. So I'm hoping that we can get some more positive stories out there because if I was at home scrolling and I found my story or other people who had come out the other end, that's what I needed.

You do spend so much time scrolling when you're going through cancer treatment, particularly chemo, particularly anything that keeps you bed bound and I can't imagine if I'd been going through it during COVID, how that would have made things different. Cause in COVID you're also worried about getting COVID. What impacts that going to have on if you've, especially if you've got a low immune system and then everyone's worrying about dying from COVID as well. this was all of this that you had was before the vaccination came out. And then on top of that, you have this, you're going through IVF and you're 25 and you're having to make a decision about freezing your eggs and thinking about whether you want to become a parent in future and all these things that nowadays a lot of 25 year olds aren't really thinking about.
Was there an emotional impact of all that on you?

I think naturally it had a real emotional impact and I don't think I realised the emotional impact that it had on me until I came out of it because when you're living with cancer and every single week is multiple appointments and multiple treatments, you're so focused on getting better that it's not until you're not in the hospital every day and you're not surrounded by other people going through every day that you actually stop to think, wow, what have I actually just gone through as a 25 year old? And that's when I realised that it's okay to go and speak to people, even if you don't necessarily feel sad or angry, but I then was really fortunate to go and get some counselling and speak about it because I thought if I don't speak about it now, I don't want the emotional side of it to come back later on in life. So I went for some therapy sessions and they were fantastic. She made me look at things in a way that I would have never looked at them before. And that really helped me with the mental side of it.

That's brilliant. It's great to know that counselling has had a positive impact and you Sound like you've done all the things to keep looking after

Well, I would hate people to think that there's no one to speak to. I would, I had a really, really, luckily I had a really, really great counsellor, but I would just say counselling sometimes comes across as not for everybody and people don't want to go. But if you have the opportunity even just for one session to go and speak to someone, I think it could really help.

You were working for Marks and Spencer's when you were diagnosed and you came up with a novel idea to help people to check their chests. Can you tell us about that?

Yes, so I was working at Marks and Spencer's at the time and I thought to myself, a little bit like we discussed earlier, I don't really know the signs and symptoms and I'd been through breast cancer and I was like, do you know what, I'm still not 100 % of all these signs and symptoms of breast cancer. And we have this portal through Marks and Spencer's where you can send in ideas to the CEO and he reviews them and then has a look at whether it's something that we'd like to roll out. So I thought, why aren't we putting posters up in toilets and fitting rooms where women are getting changed and trying on bras, trying on lingerie, and they can, there and then, it might remind them to check their boobs. So I spoke to the CEO about it and he rolled it out and now there's breast cancer awareness posters in every ladies' lingerie and staff fitting rooms across the country.

Amazing, and also, spreading that message that you learned very early on that it's not just about finding a lump, it's about dimpling, puckering, leakage, armpit rash, know, pain, all these different things.

I everyone just assumes it's a lump.

Yeah.

That's their only symptom. But I think on that poster, there's 10, 12 symptoms of what to look for. And I think I wouldn't have even thought that half of those would have related to breast cancer. And I'm just hoping that someone trying on clothes or anything can see that poster and it reminds them to just give themselves a quick check over while they're in the fitting room.

Have you had anyone contact Marks and Spencer and say I saw this poster and now I've been diagnosed or?

I've had a few. There was a lady that came into a store, not even one that I worked at, but it was actually the one that my partner worked at. And she didn't know that there was correlation. She didn't know that my partner was my partner, but she'd gone into the fitting room and she'd checked herself over. and she'd found a lump and then she came back in a couple of months later to say that she'd got the lump checked. She'd been diagnosed with breast cancer and she bought in flowers and cards. And then there's been a couple of people who have found me on Facebook as well through my name because it got shared on some of the local newspapers and stuff like that. I had a couple of people who have found me on Facebook and messaged me and said, thank you, because without looking at the posters, I wouldn't have even checked myself and I've now been. diagnosed and I'm on treatment or I've been given the all clear, etc. It's been wonderful.

How does that feel knowing that you've helped?

It makes me quite emotional when I think about it because even just helping one person is massive. But to have four or five people message me and find me personally online to say thank you wasn't what I ever expected to happen.

And obviously Marks and Spencer is such a huge company as well. You have so many stores around the UK and so many, like that's a really huge possible amount of people to reach, isn't it?

Well, there's close to, I think, 700 stores across the UK. And if those posters are in every single fitting room and toilet, you know, the amount of people that we can reach is phenomenal.

Yeah. Everyone goes, who doesn't buy the knickers from marks and Spencers? That's not an ad.

So you also took part in Breast Cancer Now's Pink Ribbon Walk. I did. Why did you decide to do that and what did it involve?

I just wanted to give something back. I like doing charity, bits for charity. I've done a lot of marathons and walks, et cetera, in the past, but I'd never done the pink ribbon walk. I like to do ones that are close to my heart. And I took part in it with my mom and two of my friends from work, and we did it together. And it was lovely. I'd never done anything like it before. The sense of community when you get there is wonderful. And I was walking around and speaking to so many women. who'd gone through it or were going through it at the moment, there was people walking who had had chemo the day before. And it was just amazing. And we raised money for such a fantastic charity.

That's fantastic. Very cool. How far was the walk?

It was 10 miles.

And where was it?

It was in the Peak District.

Oh, amazing. Beautiful.

It was Chatsworth House.

Yeah, it was lovely. Perfect.

Well, I'd like to finish with the question we're asking everyone on this podcast, which is, Breast Cancer Now's vision is that by 2050, everyone diagnosed with breast cancer will not only live, but be supported to live well. What does it mean to you to live well?

Wow. I just think living well is looking after yourself. Like I said earlier, you don't know how long you've got and you don't know what tomorrow brings. So live your life, tell the people around you that you love them. and just do what you want to do and what makes you happy. Find comfort in the little things that make you happy and do them every day.

Perfect. Lucy, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me.

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