Speaker 1 0:00
Kay, well, hello, hello, guys. You're listening to beauty bites with Dr Kay, secrets of a plastic surgeon. Today's podcast is an amazing one. We are going to learn all about needle free technologies, specifically about juvesonic, and I'm interviewing Dr Sanjay butra. He's a PhD and fellow of the American College of Cardiology. He's globally recognized as a scientist and an entrepreneur, and has over 30 years of experience in academia, Big Pharma and startups and venture creation, and now his newest project, Juba Sonic, is this amazing brand. There's a little device in my hands, and it is a needle free device that's going to help us deliver all kinds of innovation into the skin, things like exosomes, polynucleotides and serums. He's got multiple patents, and is really transforming ways that we can deliver treatments to skin. So welcome to the podcast, Sanjay.

Speaker 2 1:12
Dr Batra, thank you. Dr Kay, it's a pleasure to be here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:16
I'm so excited to learn more about this technology. So kind of what inspired the creation of the Juba Sonic device, and tell me more about why needle free is the way to go.

Speaker 2 1:27
So it's an interesting story. You know, I have a lab in Pennsylvania at the Biotechnology Center. It's an incubator with about 40 startups. And I met someone there about five years ago, he was a NASA engineer, very smart guy, and he had diabetes, a true story, by the way. His goal was to engineer a device to deliver insulin into the skin and into the bloodstream without a needle. And I was very touched by his story, and that started me on a journey to look at transdermal technologies, and I ended up creating juvesonic. After failing, you know, we started looking at the device from this person. It didn't work. We looked at electroporation and iontophoresis, and most technologies didn't work. And then we came across the simple concepts around juvasonic,

Speaker 1 2:23
and there are other technologies out there for delivery of of goods outside of needles. So for example, there are some air jets, lasers, and, like you said, ultra iontophoresis, electroporation. What makes juvasonic special, and what's the technology behind it.

Speaker 2 2:42
So, you know, it's really quite simple. In fact, if you hold the device, and you have the cartridge that can be filled with whatever serum you'd like, and you you touch the tip of it, there's a little element of dermabrasion. It has some grip to it. So it's the concept of dermabrasion with simultaneous vibration. So when you turn the device on and you apply it to your scalp or your skin, it actually feels almost like a massage, and it opens up the stratum corneum, you know, the bare barrier of human skin. As you know, the outermost layer is the stratum corneum. And this device, through the protocols that we've developed, creates windows for delivery of about 10 to 15 minutes.

Speaker 1 3:31
And that's kind of been the problem with all of these new technologies hitting the market right now. We have exosomes, polynucleotides and growth factors and all these cosmeceuticals that are actually very powerful biologics, but none of them are FDA approved for injection treatments. And so we're in this gray area of, how do we deliver products as deeply into the dermis as we can? So is that what inspired you to start this quest, besides needle free insulin.

Speaker 2 4:03
Well, you know, meeting the engineer who wanted to deliver insulin got me started. I started looking at ultrasound, and I bought a very expensive camera to do transdermal imaging of intact human skin. And what we learned about ultrasound was that it sort of tickled the pores, meaning it opened up the eccrine system a little bit. But it really didn't work. And then we went to electroporation and iontophoresis, and it didn't work at all. In fact. Not to get a little spiritual here, but God and evolution made our skin to be rather waterproof, and it's for a reason, right? It's a barrier. Otherwise we'd look like shriveled up raisins. And so these other technologies generally don't work the skin wants to protect and close down. So when we came up with juvasonic, we had an aha moment in the lab that it was actually opening up the stratum corn. In a very predictable manner, interesting.

Speaker 1 5:03
So how deep of a delivery can you produce with the tube Sonic?

Speaker 2 5:09
It's a very good question, and the delivery window has a couple of elements to it. So one is time, the protocols that we've developed open up the stratum corneum for predictably, 10 to 15 minutes. So then it becomes a math problem, how much serum do you apply and how long do you apply it for? It's sort of like the sprinkler on your lawn. The longer you turn the water on, the deeper the water will get into your soil. So we have delivery windows. I can assure you that when it comes to scalp, we can deliver to the base of the follicle, to the stem cell bulge, and when it comes to the dermis, we can deliver to the level of the fibroblast. So we could really control the delivery quite precisely with the patent pending protocols that we've developed.

Speaker 1 6:01
That's incredible. So have you done like radio labeled studies that look at depth of penetration, or how do you assess for how deep it's going?

Speaker 2 6:09
So the method that I prefer is intact human skin, and we assess it with a 50 megahertz imaging camera, and that way we you know, if you look at like a friend cell apparatus or biopsy or cadaver skin or animal models, I don't think they're that representative, because you want the skin to be functioning. And as you know, the skin may seem very simple, but it's a very complex organ, and so we prefer to study it with imaging. I'd love to do some radio labeling. We haven't gotten to that quite yet.

Speaker 1 6:46
Interesting. And are you seeing really nice results in terms of, like clinically, what patients experience?

Speaker 2 6:54
So we launched on April 1. I was patient zero, as I always have in my

Unknown Speaker 7:00
lab, your skin looks great.

Speaker 2 7:04
Usually it's my wife and my friends and family. Our cohort is at six months now, so I can tell you we have data that I'm slowly releasing. If you follow me on LinkedIn, you'll see some of the before and afters, and the thesis is proving to be effective, meaning the exosome products, or the pdrn, or the growth, growth factors that we're delivering are getting to the depth required to affect a clinical outcome, and we're showing some really remarkable improvements in hair density and hair diameter. That's the area of my greatest interest today.

Speaker 1 7:41
Oh, I love it. Talk a little bit more about micro needling. And what are your thoughts on micro needling, which is obviously very popular right now and very effective and kind of time tested, paired to needle free delivery.

Speaker 2 7:56
Yeah. So look, I'm a big fan of micro needling. Dr, Kay, if you look at the literature, you can go back 50 years to the South African work from Des Fernandez. You know, very impressive data set. If you go back 100 years, you see micro needling in the German literature. And if you go back 2000 years, you see it in acupuncture coming from China. So I'm a big fan of micro needling, but my love of micro needling is more around collagen induction. So from the point of view of creating a wound and stimulating collagen production, I'm a big fan. Now, if you take micro needling and think it will make channels and try to bang or deliver into the skin, it doesn't work particularly well, and I'll tell you why. So when the needles get to a millimeter or so in depth, you have a pinpoint bleeding. And when you have pinpoint bleeding, you have a coagulation event, and then the blood is going in exactly the opposite direction that you're trying to deliver. So I'm a big fan of microneedling for collagen induction, not as much from the point of view of enhancing topical absorption.

Speaker 1 9:11
And if you do microneedling and it's blood free, like blood less, is that more effective?

Speaker 2 9:17
I think it's much more effective and less inflammatory, because inflammation is sort of the the first step in a regenerative protocol, but you want to get out of inflammation and more towards regeneration. And with juvesonic, you don't have redness, you don't have pain, you don't have any downtime. And so we think it's the ideal, easy process to enhance topical absorption of virtually any active agent.

Speaker 1 9:47
I think that makes a lot of sense. I think also, various states have various guidelines, like in California, statisticians can't do micro needling, so everyone's looking for like a great delivery. Devices another big motivation. If you if you can deliver product deep to the level of the fibroblast, will you get some neocologenesis, or do you need the injury puncture?

Speaker 2 10:14
I It's a great question. I think the injury definitely can stimulate other factors around tissue repair, leading to collagen assists. But I think if you have the right products getting to the level of fibroblast, you can stimulate new collagen and new elastin and new ECM without requiring inflammation. I think it's sort of a new paradigm, and you know, I'm very excited to explore it, hopefully with you.

Speaker 1 10:43
Yeah, I think it is a whole there is a whole new paradigm developing in DERM and esthetics and the concept of fibroblast exhaustion and fibroblasts, in essence, that we tax our fibroblasts so much to do so much repair and defense and DNA destruction is happening all the time. And so when these fibroblasts are given a chance to rest, and they're bathed in nutritive growth factors, and, you know, given a chance to recuperate, perhaps they perform better. I mean, that's, that's kind of one of our working theories. I'm looking at senescence and fibroblasts and showing that they they're exhausted and they need our help, versus getting lasered and pinched and stimulated like provoked till they have no more energy.

Speaker 2 11:30
Yeah, I completely agree. And also imagine for the patient, sometimes these procedures are rather painful, but with juvesonic, because there's no pain, you have great compliance. And I have a video, actually, it's an interesting video on my website, juvesonic.com, on the home page, it's a guy who was getting PRP injections to his scalp. And PRP injections hurt. Injections to the scalp really hurt, and he dreaded them. And then he had a juvesonic procedure. He saw a three ml vial completely absorbed into his scalp, and he didn't have any of the trauma that you'd expect, you know, imagine not only the fibroblasts, but the whole organism dealing with stress. You know, that's very true.

Speaker 1 12:17
I have definitely had PRP, and I feel like even when we use numbing or lidocaine, it is just a super sensitive area of this scalp, but, but it's such an effective treatment, so the having this for delivery will actually be really helpful.

Speaker 2 12:32
Started developing it for PRP. The first active we studied was PRP,

Speaker 1 12:38
interesting and how thick and viscous can the product be to permeate? Because some of our products, like some of the salmon sperms and other things, are kind of in a thick Hyaluronic jelly base. Is that something that can permeate through the device as well?

Speaker 2 12:53
So it's a great question. We have three different port sizes, meaning the cartridge tip comes in three different sizes, essentially a small, medium and large based upon the viscosity of the serum. If the serum is still too thick, we recommend applying it directly to the skin or scalp, and then applying juvesonic afterwards, so there's always a way to get around it, and you can't use PRF or something very thick, but PRP works quite well with the medium medium tip cartridge that we provide.

Speaker 1 13:29
Oh, interesting. Now, can you walk us through the process of what it looked like to think of this device in your head from a concept all the way to getting like a functional, consumer facing product in hand. Like, that's just incredible. I dream of being able to create a device, and I'm just wondering, like, do you sketch on the back of a napkin? And then

Speaker 2 13:52
so, as I told you, I had met this engineer five years ago. He had a great idea and a very strong patent, and I was very intrigued on how he was thinking, you know, as an engineer, not as a biologist. So I actually invested a fair amount of my own capital. I can say it with a smile today, but back then, I wasn't very happy. He brought a shoddy device to my lab, and it totally didn't work. It was just it didn't have any curb appeal. It was a very odd looking prototype. Now, most prototypes are like that, and you see beyond that, you know, the science has to work. That's the advice I would give any young person. Make sure the device works and the science works, and then you can work on the curb appeal, the esthetic. And you know, we thought we'd make something really simple. I could have made it a little fancier. I could have probably had it connected to an iPad with a nice digital screen, like a Tesla or something. But at the end of the day, the device has to work. And then you see through the challenges as you do product development. Yeah.

Speaker 1 15:01
I mean, I think that's very challenging, because a lot of good ideas just die in production. They never make it to the device stage. And now you're, you're filing patents, which is a whole nother big, big process as well, right?

Speaker 2 15:15
It's a very complex process, and being an entrepreneur is not for everyone. It's not for the faint of heart. You have to get used to failure. You have to learn how to fail forward and continue with your vision, and then you just hope to be around long enough to get a bit lucky. And frankly, I credit luck and mentorship as much as I do my own perseverance. You know,

Speaker 1 15:40
well, talk a little bit about the idea of ultrasound. We mentioned that the stratum corneum is our waterproof protection, and the skin cells come together like bricks and mortar. How does sound and vibration change that connection of the skin? Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:58
So when it comes to ultrasound, that was the first technology I worked on, and it didn't work. It opened up the pores a little bit. You could see the sweat glands light up a little bit. I had some feeling there may be a glimmer of efficacy, but it didn't work. So this device is an ultrasound. It's actually Sonic vibration with dermabrasion, and it's the physical act of vibration. So maybe a simple way to imagine that is, imagine paint on a wall, glossy paint, and you want to get something through that glossy paint. Well, one way to do that is with sandpaper. You use a sandpaper to scuff the glossy paint, much like this tip scuffs the stratum corneum, and it doesn't hurt at all. You know, you can go right to the eyeline, and it's that vibration that mechanically opens up to your point, the mortar between the bricks,

Speaker 1 17:02
and then it stays open for 10 to 15 minutes,

Speaker 2 17:05
almost like clockwork. At 10 to 15 minutes, you see the stratum corneum reconstituted, and it generally reconstitutes stronger than it was before, at least visibly and and we've done a histology study, so I, I don't have the results quite yet, but it's done with a plastic surgeon colleague of yours and mine who lives very close to you, and we'll be sharing those results as soon as they're available.

Speaker 1 17:34
Oh, good looking at before and after of the skin exactly right with histology. Yeah, yeah, that'll be very interesting to see when, when we talk about the dermabrasion, how is this different from what estheticians are doing with their form of dermabrasion? They don't obviously have vibration. But is that the main difference with regular dermabrasion?

Speaker 2 17:57
I think it's the main difference, plus this device has been engineered and designed to allow a serum to flow out. So it's the synergy of these phenomenon, the mechanical energy, the vibration and the action of the serum penetrating through the stratum corneum, all happening together that creates this sort of synergistic moment. Now, remember, the human body is designed to protect itself. You know, there's a device that works on cold. The minute you put cold on the skin. What does it do? It vasoconstricts and shuts down, right? So the body is always trying to protect itself. And I think we found this sort of secret sauce of things all happening at the same time that allow us to create delivery windows.

Speaker 1 18:47
That's interesting. You have to have that trifecta of everything coming together at the same time, because otherwise we have conventional microdermabrasion, which gestations do. Maybe we have things like HydraFacial, which also perhaps opens up some of that but, but it's this combination of all three at the same time.

Speaker 2 19:05
Yeah, I think that's what we found. And it's in a little device you can hold in your hands and you can fill with whatever serum you like. In fact, when I, when I first launched this, I was tempted to partner with an exosome company or a PDR and company, but then I realized, if I did that, I'd be one of those guys saying, you know, my PRP is better than yours, or my exosome is better than yours, and you see industry devolve to that competitive place. You know, you have 20 PRP companies. They all say they're the best. Well, by definition, 19 of them aren't, and most people who say they're the best, they say so not having anything to do with science, but purely marketing. My PRP is leukocyte rich, so that's better. My PRP is leukocyte poor, so that's better without science. So we're completely agnostic. You can deliver whatever you'd like.

Speaker 1 20:00
Yeah, I like that. I think there's some interesting other uses to this product too. Like, can you talk a little bit about potentially treating granulomas or nodules or, you know, filler issues and problems?

Speaker 2 20:14
Yeah, thank thank you very much for bringing that up. Our first study published in the Journal of cosmetic dermatology was for the amelioration of nodules from pretty popular filler today, calcium hydroxyapatite, or radius. One of the co authors is Dr Alec McCarthy, who works at MERS, and we did a study together to show that this focused vibration takes a nodule and lowers it and spreads it into the deep dermis, so you basically take a bad injection and turn it into a good result.

Speaker 1 20:52
That's pretty impressive. I love Alex McCarthy is amazing, and I do a lot of radius treatments in the office. And I'll also sometimes see people from outside who come in with a lump or nodule, and it's it's always challenging to dissipate and dissolve those but I've just been using saline and dilution and manual disruption, but having a tool to be able to vibrate will be very interesting to see. Like is the technique just applying it topically and mechanical movements for a few minutes just to get it adjusted.

Speaker 2 21:25
Maybe that, I think that's the prevailing Gestalt that we have. We haven't entered into a formal study. I'd love to maybe do that with you, Dr Kay, and I'd love to develop some protocols. Typically, we put a little bit of an HA serum to offer a glide and then just focus the energy on the nodule for some one to two minutes, especially, especially if it's an older nodule. There's a video on my website of me, the back of my hand, where a nurse comes to my lab and we inject, and I had an integrated nodule right here, literally here. And I had an OGS moment thinking, what am I going to do? Because it felt like I had a pebble under my skin. It was an early onset nodule, but 30 seconds of juvesonic took it and broke it down so you couldn't feel it, and in fact, you wouldn't be able to tell on the video right now. But right here, where the nodule spread out, my skin looks younger. I still have an esthetic outcome or a cosmetic effect from breaking that nodule down.

Speaker 1 22:37
How interesting. Wow. Wait, so you self inflicted a nodule in order to test this. That's great.

Speaker 2 22:44
I'm always patient zero, just like in my company, I don't raise money from investors unless I know the science works. You know, I have to be very ethical, and I want to be treated first before I would have anyone else test something investigational. You know,

Speaker 1 23:00
yeah, I think that's really important. I feel the same way. What do you think are some gaps in our industry right now? Like, where are we missing? Treatment zones or areas where we could treat people better, tools that we're missing?

Speaker 2 23:17
Well, I think the era of regenerative esthetics is finally here. We've been talking about regenerative esthetics for 10 or 15 years, going back to artifel and Bella fill and those sorts of early days with these kind of permanent fillers. But you see the interest in Sculptra and radius, I think the Holy Grail, or the next place will be, is to look at the essence of reversing time. So I'm 62 years old, but if I can wake up and after having some regenerative treatments, look 55 like a slightly younger, better version of myself, rather than a filled or frozen version of myself, that's where the industry is headed, and I'm really excited to be part of it. You know,

Speaker 1 24:08
I think the regenerative space is everything. I feel like this is the frontier we're going to stay in for the next 10 years. And it's honestly the science is moving so so fast. It's kind of hard to get that science from the bench to the patient, like all of these amazing ideas that are held up in the idea that the FDA takes so long to approve a drug or a delivery system, I think is that true for devices? Or do you have less trouble getting FDA approval for devices?

Speaker 2 24:40
Yeah, so devices are regulated in three classes, with the FDA, class one, class two and class three. Class three devices are the most invasive, for example, a defibrillator or something that's implanted into the body. Class two devices are less invasive. Juvesonic is a class one device, so we're registered by the FDA as a class one device, meeting the it's the least risky of the three classes of medical devices.

Speaker 1 25:14
That's perfect. Is there any safety issue in terms of the depth of the penetration, or the design, or this kind of vibratory delivery with any trade offs with safety?

Speaker 2 25:27
You know, it's a very fair question. I would say we tend to limit the delivery to these layers of the skin. We're not interested in delivering to the bloodstream. If you started having systemic effects that would be regulated as a drug with FDA in a much more complicated set of circumstances, our claims here are strictly around enhancing topical absorption of cosmetics. You've seen that every exosome company, every pdrn company today, they've all pivoted to being topical cosmetic products, but when you look at the put ups of those products, they typically come in glass vials for injection. So somehow, the story doesn't add up when you think about it. Here you have a vial for injection, but it's illegal to inject exosomes. You know, it's not a question of on or off label. There is no label for an exosome. So that's where juvesonic, I think, addresses a pretty large unmet need.

Speaker 1 26:33
I think so I think that's the trend right now, is everything's coming out as plasmaceutical, but these are very powerful biologic active products. So it's going to be interesting to see how that science evolves. Do you think that companies have a responsibility to do scientific testing at that level, knowing the power of their biologic because right now, nobody's doing that. They're just continuing with like clinical use and cosmeceutical use, and let's see what happens.

Speaker 2 27:01
Well, I certainly have my personal opinion, and I think the marketing is ahead of the science. So while you're right that the science is moving quickly, we lack randomized, controlled trials. We lack long term safety monitoring, and if you look for example, and maybe it's a little impolite for me to mention it, but if you look, for example, at a very well studied drug, pdgf, very well studied drug, it has four FDA approvals, but those approvals are in orthopedics and in wound care, and yet today, people are using it for skin, repeated application on healthy skin. I'm not sure we know much about pdgf in the setting of application to healthy skin, especially chronically. So I think we have to do more research and understand the science a little bit better, and certainly the safety profile a little bit better, if I'm being honest. You know,

Speaker 1 28:01
I think we have to be honest, because we as scientists, we speak for the public, and we have to defend the science and the lay person who doesn't know the science and believes the marketing. And I, my husband's a cardiologist. You're a member of the American Academy of cardiology, and I look at, he sees the clinical trials that we published in esthetics, and he's like, that's 30 patients. Well, show me that once you have 10,000 and then I'll talk to you that other fields require much more stringent guidelines for clinical practice use, and we're not there in esthetics, but hopefully we trend in that direction. It only happens when scientists speak up and say, like, show me the money. Show me the evidence. You know,

Speaker 2 28:46
I, I agree with you. In fact, that's the reason I became most interested in hair loss. You know, I started losing my own hair about 1012, years ago, and that put me on a journey to create products for hair and and hair growth in the setting of androgenetic alopecia or male or female pattern hair loss. And what I like about hair is, by and large, you can quantify it. You can measure hair density, hair diameter, antigen, telogen phase. So you can actually be a little more quantitative in hair when it comes to Facial Esthetics and wrinkles. You know, the photography and before and after still are lacking in many cases, in my opinion, you know,

Speaker 1 29:27
that's interesting. Are you using some AI in terms of your studies or just in life in general? Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:34
So I have a friend who developed a hair camera that uses AI. One of the phenomenon we're trying to do is to align the before and after images. So, you know, even if you have a mole or a tattoo or a fiduciary marker, it's very hard to align the images. And so the AI is helping to do that. So it can be more representative to look at the treatment effect, as opposed to an art. Fact, because the after photo doesn't line up with the before photo,

Speaker 1 30:04
that'll be super interesting to try right now, we're using tattoos with hair metrics, and that's been a big, you know, boost from what we used to do,

Speaker 2 30:15
yeah, gets you into the neighborhood, but it doesn't get you into the perfect map, to be honest.

Speaker 1 30:21
But yeah, exactly. That's one thing that we need to work on, for sure, in terms of, like, other uses for hair. You do see changes in hair thickness and density with these products being applied?

Speaker 2 30:40
Yeah, I have to say, of course, as a disclaimer, it's very anecdotal. It's small studies done in my lab or with colleagues of mine. I think the efficacy is potentially there with exosomes. Certainly, you have to choose the right exosome and the right source. I'm not a fan, for example, of plant derived exosomes. You know, plants don't talk to human cells. You know that the language doesn't work with plants. So I'm, I'm very fussy about the type of exosome we would partner with if we ever partnered with a company, but I think the potential for efficacy is certainly there, and it's really exciting to see as we all collect more data and learn more.

Speaker 1 31:24
That's true. I just came back from lecturing in Tokyo at the anti aging World Congress, and it's interesting, they have so many different and new technologies available in Asian countries that they don't have here. And they had companies come in from China, Taiwan and Tokyo itself. So needle free delivery was a theme, because there was a lot of different devices, from air jets to lasers to multitude of devices out there. And the other interesting thing I saw was topical bio stimulators being driven in through the skin surface. What are your thoughts on that like topical PLA was being recommended for example, or pdla, which are all of these collagen bio stimulators. But can do you think that those big molecules can be pushed through the stratum corneum and the dermis, into the dermis

Speaker 2 32:18
without assistance? I think it would be a huge challenge. Let me just leave it at that. I can tell you in my lab, and I have some before and after photos that I think you'd find encouraging at a minimum, even maybe more than that, we're trying hyper dilute radius and hyper dilute Sculptra to deliver into the back of the hand, and we're showing evidence of it delivering. But if you take a bio stimulator and apply it to the surface without some methodology to enhance absorption or delivery, I don't think it will get very far. That's my thinking today. At least I'm open to being wrong, and hopefully I am, you know,

Speaker 1 33:03
yeah, no, I love the idea of hyper dilute applied with proper delivery. That would be very interesting. But it's funny what starts to trend just from people showing up and doing marketing at a booth, and then they they get the entire room thinking that you can apply by a stimulator topically, and it'll do something.

Speaker 2 33:23
So, yeah, the gold standard today, of course, is injection. But injection isn't perfect, and people fear needles. The ideal way would be to deliver things topically, you know, but, but larger molecules are not very easy to get past the stratum corneum.

Speaker 1 33:42
Yeah, is there a molecule size barrier number?

Speaker 2 33:46
So there is a kilo Dalton rule that people have prescribed to for many years, maybe 30 years. But with juvesonic, because you open up the stratum corneum, we can deliver large peptides, large growth factors, as I alluded to, and I'm happy to share with you some of the before and after photos we're showing radius and Sculptra definitely passing the stratum cornea. Interesting.

Speaker 1 34:17
Are there any validation type studies that show the tissue level effect. Are we still in the early stages to see like gene expression or angiogenesis or a new extracellular matrix and collagen synthesis? Yeah.

Speaker 2 34:32
So, so, you know, I'm not a physician, I'm a scientist. I prefer non invasive methods. So in my lab, we use ultrasound imaging. Having said that, the idea of doing a biopsy or radio labeling and confirming delivery and measuring some skin changes or changes with markers, I think, is very compelling and something I'd love to collaborate with others who would have that capability. You know, I. So I'm only in the lab one or two days a week, so I have to be very careful of my time and how I use it. You know,

Speaker 1 35:07
well, it sounds like you've developed a very interesting life for yourself. It's very inspiring that you're bringing these ideas from, you know, the scientific notebook, all the way to the all the way to us using it in the office. So congratulations on developing this device. It's I just got my hands on it, and I can't wait to try it in the office, and I will report back. And for sure, we should do some studies on this. I think if you could predict in the next five years how this technology would evolve. What would you say might happen?

Speaker 2 35:43
Yeah, so I think the technology will get smarter and more quantitative. Right now. You fill the device with a serum. It may have a certain viscosity and a certain predilection to flow and come out and get into the skin, but I think the smart idea would be to quantify the flow and assess the depth of penetration and the actual delivery. And I think with AI or some imaging or some sensors the working end of this device, meaning the part here can definitely get smarter. Tomorrow, I'm visiting with a US manufacturer, a very significant manufacturer of medical devices. My son and I are taking a drive to visit with them tomorrow to talk about exactly this idea.

Speaker 1 36:34
I love that that's going to be like if you could develop this moonshot technology and you had unlimited resources to pair, like that's, you know, in terms of what you could do next, smart biomarkers or AI control. It sounds like you're already envisioning that.

Speaker 2 36:52
You know, I have, I've been blessed by having very good mentors, Dr Kay, you know, starting with my dad, who is a PhD scientist, a geneticist, and I've surrounded myself with a lot of very smart people. And when you get to be my age, the greatest pleasure I have now, believe it or not, is hanging around with young people as I see their enthusiasm and their you know, my 29 year old son and I will be at a manufacturing facility at this time tomorrow, talking about the next version of juvesonic. So that gives me great pride, and it gives me something to do every day that I love. You know,

Speaker 1 37:27
well, that's incredible. Sanjay, I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast, and we'll report back on how much I like the juvesonic. Where can people find you, and how should they reach out if they have any questions or they want to try the device? Yeah.

Speaker 2 37:43
So you can follow us on social media. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, and to show you how all in I am the juvesonic. My new email address is sanjay@juvasonic.com

Speaker 1 37:57
Oh, that's easy. Okay. Well, there you have it. That's an amazing device from an amazing inventor and scientist. And that's it for now. Guys, don't forget to find me on my instagram. It's Beauty by Dr Kay, D, R, K, a, y, doing amazing things with people's faces. And our website is the same. It's Beauty by Dr kay.com that's where you can find our amazing skincare line. And don't forget to come visit if you're in LA we will try a juvesonic treatment on you shortly, I will report back. I'm going to try my own skin, and I will tell you how it goes amazing. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. That's it for now, guys, stay beautiful. You. You.