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SILVIA: The very first tune he wrote in this room was the tune

to When I'm Sixty-Four. No words at first, just the tune. He was

14 when he wrote that. When he got his first guitar, he'd go up

into his bedroom, that... His little room at the front really

just became his sanctuary, he said. And he wrote his first

song with a guitar up in his bedroom, a song called I Lost My

Little Girl.

JAMES GRASBY : When two teenagers started making music

in their bedrooms in 1950s Liverpool, they couldn't have

known how their writing and strumming on guitars would

change the face of cultural history.

The two young men went on to become a four. I'm of course

talking about The Beatles. In this episode, we're unlocking

The Beatles' origin story of the childhood homes of musical icons

Paul McCartney and John Lennon.

Have you ever imagined being a fly on the wall of history? Join

me for an inside view of the stories of people, places and

moments that made us.

I'm historian James Grasby. Lean in for a tale from time. Back

When.

I'm walking along Liverpool's famous Albert Docks and I'm

struck by how many of the shops and restaurants are pumping out

The Beatles' back catalogue.

It's hard to imagine what Liverpool was like before the

Beatles. There are references everywhere. Of course you fly

into John Lennon Airport, you stroll down Ringo Starr Drive or

Paul McCartney Way. The city is undeniably a living, breathing

homage to the Fab Four.

In 1995, the Trust acquired a house dubbed the birthplace of

The Beatles at number 20, Fourthlin Road. This house was

the childhood home of Paul McCartney. Then, in 2002, Yoko

Ono bought John Lennon's childhood home, 251 Menlove

Avenue.

In an attempt to preserve it, Yoko immediately donated the

house to the National Trust. Today, the Trust runs tours

around the two properties, giving you a backstage peek into

the lives of John and Paul.

I've just arrived at the tour's central Liverpool pickup point.

I'm eagerly waiting to board the bus for the 11 o'clock tour

along with lots of other Beatles fans. Let's go and see who I'll

be sharing my tour with today.

Hello. Sorry to burst into your day.

Who are you?

VISITOR: I'm Brian Hancock from Birmingham.

Yeah, Martin Lindsay from Birmingham as well.

JAMES GRASBY : You're clearly not of The Beatles' generation.

What's brought you to come on this tour today?

VISITOR: No, you're wrong, I'm not that old.

JAMES GRASBY : That generation but I've got an older brother

and he handed me his records and a rubber sole and we've still

got reel-to-reel tapes in the house of Hard Days Nights and

help yeah I think Graham's just hit it on the head for me as

well because my dad he you know he started his apprenticeship

got enough money together and he bought himself a reel-to-reel

tape recorder back in the late 50s and of course when I was

born started going through his tapes playing them and that's

where where the love of that music came from.

And how very powerful it is, isn't it, hearing music from

your child?

JOE: Ok, shall we go down then, ladies and gents?

JAMES GRASBY : Look, I think the bus has arrived. We'd better

join the tour.

How exciting. Look, we'll join the queue.

JOE: Ok, just be careful. Just watch your step getting on for

me. Take your time. Don't rush, please. Don't rush.

Okay, good morning ladies and gents. My name's Joe, I'm your

driver for today. It's going to take us about 15-20 minutes to

get there, so just sit back and relax ladies and gents.

JAMES GRASBY : Well, we've been on the bus for about 10 minutes

and we've left the sparkly, cosmopolitan, wonderful middle

of the great city of Liverpool into some very straightforward

domestic residential areas.

JOE: This next road on our right is called Penny Lane.

JAMES GRASBY : There it is!

JOE: I'm sure some of you may have heard of that.

JAMES GRASBY : Penny Lane as immortalised in the songs and

lyrics, my goodness.

JOE: Ok ladies and gents, here we are coming up to the house

where...

JAMES GRASBY : I think we've just come into Forthlin Road.

Yes we have, just turn round the corner. It's quite a broad

street with terraces of brick houses, little front gardens

that have been mostly used for parking.

Look at that, I think we're going to get out of the

pavement. How exciting!

The bus has just dropped us out on the pavement, outside this

terrace. Eight symmetrical, similar houses of brick, two

storeys. I wonder what it's like living next door to the

McCartney house, now surrounded by maybe 50 visitors, all

eagerly anticipating a look inside.

SILVIA: I'm Sylvia. So this is 20 Forthlin Road. This is the

home Paul McCartney came to when he was 13 years old. And then he

lived here for eight years, really important years

musically.

By the time Paul left here, it was right at the end of 1963, so

he turned into a Beatle, they'd already got hits in the charts,

they were appearing on television, Paul was still

coming back. That was still his bedroom up there, right until

the end of 1963. Then he was the last Beatle to move to London.

If you've got a mobile phone on, can you switch it off? We are

going back to the 1950s. So no mobile phones. Come on.

The photograph of Paul here standing at the front door.

You'll see what he's doing as you come past. That was Paul's

answer to getting complaints about noise from the neighbours

who live...

So come and have a look

JAMES GRASBY : Oh look. Look at that. Black and white

photograph. A super photy actually. Of Paul, I guess he's

in his early twenties. At this house. Yes there he is, he's

coming out of the door of this house carrying an enormous drum

kit. Not a big house by any means. So basically there's a

hall, kitchen, a front room. Just a couple of rooms upstairs.

It's really very small.

SILVIA: It doesn't seem to say anything about not playing loud

music, so that's good. Come and have a look at the kitchen. And

outside.

JAMES GRASBY : Sylvia, hello. Could I grab you? Just take you

away from the tour for a moment.

SILVIA: Yes, of course. Yeah.

This room was always full of music. All the family gathered

round the piano. Always singing in harmony. As Paul said, when I

got together with John, it was natural to put in the harmonies.

That's how I'd always sung at home with the family.

The very first tune he wrote in this room was the tune to When

I'm Sixty-Four. No words at first, just the tune. He was 14

when he wrote that. When he got his first guitar, he'd go up

into his bedroom. His little room at the front really just

became his sanctuary, he said.

And he wrote his first song with a guitar up in his bedroom, a

song called I Lost My Little Girl. When John started to come

down here, they did sit here just over this side of the room

together and they wrote Love Me Do. So that was the first

Beatles one, which was totally co-written and that set them on

their way.

We've got two photographs on the wall here, John and Paul just

sitting in this room. The song they're finishing there is I Saw

Her Standing There. In the photograph there's a notebook on

the floor, Paul's writing down the words and he's still got

that book with all those early songs in. I've looked with a

magnifying glass and I can see he's crossed out We Saw Her and

it's I Saw Her Standing There.

JAMES GRASBY : I'm standing on the very spot where John Lennon

is. I mean, it is really quite eerie. There is...

He's got his foot on that fireplace, hasn't he? Yes. So

the notebook was really where my foot is. There's the telly. I

mean, it's very poignant to see that, isn't it, that they really

were here. It is. That's so unusual. Sylvia, I'm keeping you

from your party. Show me, have you got time to just quickly

show us upstairs?

SILVIA: Yes, of course, yeah.

So we've come from the sitting room into the dining room

through the double doors. So this sitting room was where

John, Paul and George rehearsed. This was where John and Paul

finished writing She Loves You. Then they went in to play it to

Jim.

Jim was Paul's father and Jim's famous quote was, yeah it's

great I love it great chorus. But I don't like the

Americanisms in the chorus. Can you change those? So Jim wanted,

she loves you, yes, yes, yes. Didn't like the yeah, yeahs. Too

rock and roll for Jim.

JAMES GRASBY : That's a lovely story. I've not heard that

before. Could we take a look upstairs now?

So this is... Paul's room. Oh, look at those wonderful

photographs of the young Paul McCartney looking rather moody.

SILVIA: What I like to think of in here is, you know, Paul had

this little bedroom just less than a mile away. John had

exactly the same smallest bedroom in the house. And those

two young boys were doing exactly the same things, really.

Reading, writing, drawing, painting, always busy in their

bedrooms. Two very bright, clever boys. And then when they

got their first guitars, sitting on their beds and trying to

write songs in their bedroom.

This little photograph shows Paul with his guitar, his Zenith

guitar. And it's a very early photograph. There's only, of

course, no Ringo yet. So there's George, John and Paul. And

George is just 15 years old in this photograph.

JAMES GRASBY : Yes they're rosy cheeks I mean look at John

Lennon, he's just a little boy really isn't he? Yeah. It's very

touching look, at Paul with his with his rosy face and his pink

ears and his little quiff sweet isn't it?

SILVIA: Yeah.

JAMES GRASBY : Sylvia, thank you very much. It's been lovely,

fascinating. You've got a tour waiting for you downstairs.

SILVIA: I certainly have, yes.

JAMES GRASBY : That was fabulous. We just got back on

the bus and we're now going over to John's house. Goodbye

Forthlin Road.

Now look, forgive me, may I ask you, what did you make of Paul's

house?

VISITOR ON BUS: There's something special about sort of

being in the space that they were in. Just to put your hand

on doorknobs and on banisters and think of all the times they

must have been there. It has a certain resonance somehow. It's

weird. Here we are, coming up to the house where John Lennon used

to live.

TOUR GUIDE: Just stay seated for me.

JAMES GRASBY : Oh, we've just arrived outside the childhood

home of John Lennon. There we are.

My word, I mean that is a sort of house house.

COLIN: My name's Colin and for the past 15 years it has been my

job to look after this property, just as you would your own.

Paul himself told me that John had said, Paul, don't knock on

the front door because my aunt doesn't let people in that way,

it's kept for best, the vicar, the doctor. People of that ilk,

you'll have to go to the kitchen door at the back. So I'm afraid

for you also, it does have to be the tradesman's entrance.

Welcome to Aunt Mimi's Mendips. Thank you very much.

JAMES GRASBY : I'm just going to hang back from the tour so as

not to disturb them and have a bit of a look round the outside

of this house. That is a very different thing from Paul's.

It's bigger and rather more gracious. I mean, this looks

like what one might describe as middle-class living, probably

from the 1930s, I'd guess.

Pebble-dashed two-storey with pretty coloured glass in the

windows. I mean, it sits with a little front garden and a glazed

porch and a little back door here going into what looks like

a sort of kitchen. I'm going to look at that in a bit.

But, I mean, honestly, the area put aside for the coal here,

It's about the same size as the garden at Paul's house, with

mature trees. And once you get back from the road, it's really

quite peaceful. I mean, they had space here, and it looks

comfortable and really very homely. Different world, really,

to Paul's.

COLIN: I want to thank you for listening, but I want you to see

some of the house yourself. The dining room is full of

memorabilia. John's room is tiny, so maybe the best advice

is circulate.

JAMES GRASBY : Hello Colin, you've got a tour going on

upstairs, another tour arriving in a bit. Have you got a mo to

show me around?

COLIN: I have, certainly.

JAMES GRASBY : Colin, how did John come to live here?

COLIN: The war played havoc with his parents' relationship. And

within the family, it was agreed that John should come to live

with his aunt, where there was stability and security. So here,

Mimi could be quite strict. She encouraged him with his art. He

would spend hours drawing.

She would sometimes go to remove the discarded pictures, and he

would caution her, say, oh, Mimi, don't. Don't take those,

don't throw those away, because one day I'm going to be famous

and they'll be worth a lot of money. And so, yes, the arts

were appreciated at Mendips, but strangely, music wasn't

encouraged too much.

JAMES GRASBY : Colin, what was John's school days like?

COLIN: I should take you through to the morning room next to the

kitchen, because in there, there is a full-size picture of the

entire school. There's a school report there as well, so let us

go through.

The report we have is from Dovedale Primary School, which

is where John attended.

JAMES GRASBY : Isn't that good? Liverpool Education Committee,

boys, report. Name of scholar, John Lennon. Attendance good,

conduct good. Scripture, good.

Well, Colin, I can't find John in this school photograph.

COLIN: Well, he's not hiding. He's here.

JAMES GRASBY : Oh, look at that. And recognisable, too.

COLIN: He's standing next to Peter Shotton, with whom he will

form The Quarryman Skiffle Group in late 1956. And, of course,

the report... at secondary school, I'm afraid, it didn't

take long to go downhill.

By then, John really is totally besotted with rock and roll. And

he'd overcome the obstacle to being a rock and roller. The

obstacle for British children was, we didn't have the electric

guitars. Kids in... Britain could dream all they wanted

about being Elvis Presley, but they couldn't turn it into a

practical reality. So the saviour of British youth and of

John Lennon, really, was skiffle.

It was really a kissing cousin of rock and roll, a fusion of

folk, blues and jazz, but essentially not played on

electric instruments. It was played on acoustic and homemade

instruments. Well in excess of 10,000 skiffle groups were

formed in Britain, including John Lennon's Quarrymen. So as

he went into his O-level years, Mimi had the twin problem of

Elvis and the Quarrymen.

The Quarrymen perform at the St Peter's Annual Church Garden

Fete. John's friend, Ivan brought Paul to the Fade to hear

the Quarrymen and then a couple of weeks later Paul was invited

to join the group. So by Christmas 1957 you have John

Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Colin Hanton as the

Quarrymen. In 1959 going into 60 the boys are trying to think of

another name.

John got the idea from Buddy Holly And The Crickets and so

they came up with Beatles. Paul and John very quickly bonded,

not only over the music but over the realisation that they were

writing songs. Independently. So they started to come to each

other's houses to hear these and share them. They could sit in

the bed and work on the songs.

I think Hello Little Girl was written around about December

'57 and that was the first song John shared with Paul. Paul

shared I Lost My Little Girl with John. That was the first

song Paul had written on guitar. But the other songs John wrote

up there to fruition were I Call Your Name, I'll Get You, which

was the B-side of She Loves You, was written with Paul in that

bedroom.

JAMES GRASBY : Colin, you've told me a lot about the songs

that were written here. Can we go and see his bedroom?

COLIN: Yes, of course.

JAMES GRASBY : Thank you. Just going upstairs.

Look at that. Walking into the 1950s into a little single

bedroom was this John's room with a little poster stuck to

the wall hip for Elvis Presley and Brigitte Bardot and a guitar

at the end of the bed with that sort of classic 1930s brown oak

furniture with varnish on it and looking out over onto the road.

What a nice room!

We've just walked into a room next door to John's. It's the

principal front bedroom with some candy-coloured lampshades

and a double bed and one of those classic sort of 1930s

tiled fireplaces with a little gas heater. Comfy. Hello. Hello.

Hello.

What has brought you to John Lennon's house?

VISITOR: Big Beatles fans, part of my youth really, so many

memories of that. Playground arguments about who was the best

Beatle in the 60s. My older brother, who's 11 years older

than I, was a great jazz fan. He was the only one in the house

that had a record player. We were not allowed to play it on

his record player. My sister, who was two or three years

older, came home with the Twist and Shout EP and that was the

first.

The first single record I think that we ever had in the house

that wasn't jazz. So we had to wait until he went out to be

able to play it so we could sort of dance around the living room

to the music. So it was quite a contentious thing to like at the

time. We're just saying actually John's bedroom is very similar

to the bedroom my husband had in his house where he grew up.

JAMES GRASBY : What does it feel like for you? Knowing those

songs so well to be in the place where some of them were actually

penned, some of them were composed.

VISITOR: It reminds me a bit of when we went to Vienna and went

to Mozart's house. And you could suddenly get the feel, this is

where Mozart actually composed his music. And the idea that

this is where John composes music, you get the same sort of

chill down your backbone, the same sort of feeling.

JAMES GRASBY : Oh, I wish we could talk more, but I think

that was Colin. Let's go this way.

COLIN: So you may want to ask when you get back on. Thanks for

coming. It's been a delight to show you around. Wherever you go

today, have a lovely time.

JOE: Did you all enjoy your tour, ladies and gents?

Great stuff.

JAMES GRASBY : We've got back on the bus and I feel heavy hearted

because it marks the end of the day. It's been such great fun

spending time with these Beatles enthusiasts. Fanatics indeed

from all around the world.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Back When. You can

send us your ratings and reviews if you'd like. For now, from me,

James Grasby, goodbye.

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