>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s, and I used to live

in a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect

on what's happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you to take a moment to

stop and think about where you are, where you're

going, and where your relationship with God fits

into it all. Every week, I meet a new guest who

tells me about something they experienced which

changed their life forever. By talking about the

things they wish they'd known, we'll explore the

idea that God is in all things. And we'll talk

about the part that faith plays in navigating

life's challenges.

Today I'm speaking to Veronica, who's part of the

Jesuit young adult community. She is originally

from Argentina, but was living in Canada, and at

25, she moved to London. Veronica is a reflection

of seeing God in all things taught me to trust in

God's voice in the small moments. So, Veronica,

what was it like moving from Canada to London at

25?

>> Veronica: Do you know, at the time, it was really fun, and

it didn't seem, odd or strange. And looking back,

I think, wow, 25 is really young. I think maybe 25

doesn't sound, you know, you feel very old and you

feel autonomous and independent. But actually,

looking back, I was 25 and I. I had some friends

from university, but let's just say I kind of had

no real friends, no real relationships tying me to

England. So looking back, it was kind of a leap of

faith.

>> Julia: So what made you move?

>> Veronica: Yeah, I, It's a funny story. I think it's like how

God plants seeds along your path. But I was in St.

Andrews in Scotland doing an exchange, and there

was a man who was there pitching, a graduate

trainee programme in a, like, really interesting

company. And I thought, like, ooh, that sounds so

fun. I want to do that. And I went to the career

centre right after that talk the next day, and I

said, like, I want to work in London and I want to

work at that company. And the career centre guy

was like, okay, well, so does everyone else. And

I'm like, no, but you don't understand. I actually

want to do it. He's like, okay, you're going to

have to do this, this, this, this. And from that

moment on, it was London or bust. And that was my.

My big dream. And I got an opportunity to move to

London and to work at a company as an intern for

six months. And six months turned into 11 years so

far.

>> Julia: Wow.

>> Veronica: Yeah.

>> Julia: And so when you got to London, because everyone

talks about it being quite big city, actually,

when I was walking here, I heard someone going,

london, such a big city. Was it quite an isolating

experience at first?

>> Veronica: That's a good question. Thankfully, I feel like I

don't really have memories of the early days

anymore. and I say thankfully because I think it

probably was. But I just remember being so

nervous. That's like, the one thing I remember

distinctly. feeling like I was on probation in,

like, a life sense. I don't know why. I think it's

because I wanted it so badly to all work that I

just felt like I had to be good, keep my head down

and just like, one foot in front of the other. I

was lucky because I had a lot of kind of help,

like, a lot of, like, guardian angels along the

way. Looking back, I think at the time I maybe

didn't really see it, but now I do. so, for

example, I moved into, a house run by nuns in

Hampstead. And it was all young adult girls, some

of them young professionals, some of them kind of,

living and working their first jobs in London,

others in training. So they were like junior

doctors and lawyers. And, there were also girls

who would just come for a few months to, like,

study English. And, that was like a home away from

home because all of us were in the same boat. We

had all left our friends, we'd all left our

families. We were all in this cool big city. and

there were some things which ended up being the

reasons why, like, after a while I was like, okay,

I'm ready to, to leave this place. But, but at the

beginning were really comforting. So, for example,

we had a curfew, which was 10:30 on weeknights,

which was actually kind of a killer because, you

know, like, you sometimes you want to do cool

stuff, or sometimes we were at work really late

and I would always cut it fine. And then on

weekends it was 11:30, which was, like, awful. And

I remember people used to, used to know, like, oh,

she needs to get back to her Convent at 11:30. And

I was like Cinderella, like, leaving parties

early. also because it was in Hampstead, which,

for those who are familiar with London, it's on

the Northern line and it's about, like, 45 minutes

from anywhere else, especially if you're, like,

quite central or somewhere south. Yeah. So to get

there for 11:30 means you had to leave at like

10:30. And anything good starts at 10:30.

>> Julia: Is that because of the. I imagine the sisters are

like, locking their doors and make sure they're

all safe.

>> Veronica: Exactly. It was because it was like family,

basically, and they wanted to make sure that you

were safe and you were in. And of course you could

like, sign out and say, like, sisters, I'm going

to my friends for the weekend or whatever, you

know, you had to let them know. But if you hadn't

let them know, then the assumption was 10:30,

you're in the nest. And, And if you weren't, it's

because they'd stay up and they'd worry about you.

So it was those little things that, you know, made

you feel, gave you, like, the comforts of home,

within the wider context of, like, the big,

exciting, scary city.

>> Julia: So what did you do when you left. Left the

convent?

>> Veronica: Well, by that time I actually lived there, believe

it or not, three years, which is like, wow, how.

But, it was like the cheapest rent in London and

it included food and actually the people were so

fun. I made so many friends there. but it got to

the point where I was like, okay, I have enough

money and I'm a bit grown up now, time to move.

so, yeah, but it was, it was very formative and it

was really lovely and it was. It's definitely a

part of my London experience that I look back on

fondly, even though at times I hated it.

>> Julia: I feel like that's always the case. Even if you,

like, have a negative experience at the time,

you're like, when you look back, you're like, oh,

that wasn't so bad.

>> Veronica: Yeah, yeah, totally. Because you forget all the.

You forget all the nitty gritty about it.

>> Julia: being like, roast into glasses, isn't there?

>> Veronica: Yeah, like, yeah.

>> Julia: So how did you come across Farm Street?

>> Veronica: Oh, my gosh. Okay, so again, looking back, it's

like I kind of remember, but I don't have the full

details. there was a girl at work, funnily enough,

who, we were there working one late evening and

for one reason or another, and I, I don't remember

the conversation, but we got onto religion and

basically she asked me if I was Cathol, to which I

said yes, and she said, oh, you know, there's

actually a church near here, which I go to, my

family goes to. I'll bring you a brochure one day.

And I was like, oh, okay, cool. And I thought it

was really weird because you don't normally have

those conversations at work. And lo and behold, a

few days later she showed up with a brochure for

this church. And I put it in my purse and I kind

of forgot about it. I kind of ignored it, but I

knew it was there. And, I find that lots of things

kind of work like that. It's like, it's kind of

circling around you, but you're not quite ready to

action it for one reason or another. The church

that I was attending in Hampstead, it must have

been a Sunday where the schedule just conflicted

and I couldn't go to that Mass. And I thought,

okay, well, there's that other church, I can go

there. And that must have happened two or three

times. And at some point I stumbled into the young

adult Mass, which is at 7pm on a Sunday and it's

catered towards young adults. So when I walked in

and just saw young people, I thought, like, oh,

this is cool.

>> Julia: So before we get too much further, I feel like I

should clarify that Farm Street Church is a

church.

>> Veronica: Yes.

>> Julia: And it's a church run by the Jesuits.

>> Veronica: Yes.

>> Julia: And it happens to be, for us, the church that is

literally next door to us as we're recording this.

>> Veronica: Exactly.

>> Julia: But on a, at 7 o' clock on a Sunday evening, there

is a young adult Mass.

>> Veronica: Yes.

>> Julia: A Mass run by the Jesuits for young adults.

>> Veronica: And it's been, as far as I understand, growing for

like 21 years or something. So it's pretty

established

>> Julia: More because we had the 21st birthday last year,

2024, so it must be now 22 years old.

>> Veronica: Yeah. So, yeah, so running for quite a while and

attracting more and more people each Sunday.

>> Julia: So you came across the young adult Mass by

accident?

>> Veronica: Yes.

>> Julia: And did you then start coming regularly or how did

you get involved in it?

>> Veronica: Yeah, great question. So, stumbled upon it by

accident and thought it was really cool that there

were so many young people and then just kind of

kept coming, but not as a resolution, like, I will

go every Sunday, but just each time a little bit

more, each time recognising people more and who

the priests were and, feeling more familiar and

then from there to actually it becoming like my

number one choice place to go to Mass. I don't

know, just time. Time and routine, I guess.

>> Julia: So what made you stick with the young adult Mass

or made it your regular Mass?

>> Veronica: I think that sense of community, the sense that it

was the same people every week and that you could

really rely on that and that anything could happen

during the week, but you had the, the comfort and

the security of like, Sunday evening. I know who

I'm going to see. I know who I'm going to be with.

>> Julia: So why do you think it's so important for young

adults to have that sense of community?

>> Veronica: I think we all crave it. I think, you know, knock

on wood, a lot of us grew up in, in loving

families and it's innate to us, that sense of

belonging and that sense of mattering and, and the

sense of, people knowing who you are and knowing

what you bring to the table and, and conversely

you giving that to others, in the same way. And we

crave that sense of. Yeah, belonging. Especially

in, in a city that otherwise is. Know you can be

so anonymous and autonomous and, you know, no one

really knows you.

>> Julia: I've been going to the young adult mass post

lockdown, post the pandemic. But you actually

started going beforehand.

>> Veronica: Yeah.

>> Julia: So how did the pandemic change that experience for

you?

>> Veronica: I'm so glad you asked because I think one of the

great strengths of Farm street was especially the

young adult group was Covid. I feel like that was,

a really pivotal moment, in so many of our lives

where we saw things that either thrived or just

kind of fell apart. And I have this great kind of

visual, you know, in the movie Titanic, I always

refer to this because it is exactly how I saw it

at the time. you know, when the iceberg hits and

the compartment doors start to close and it's like

everyone's kind of like running through and

trying, like just slipping under. at work was very

visually like that. Like things were closing,

closing, closing, closing. The resources that we

would use, physical locations, things that we

could do, it was, it was all starting to become

like dead ends. And by total contrast of Farm

street, especially the young adult group,

everything was like opening, opening, opening,

opening, opening. And it was actually really fun

to see both sides and how each, you know, was able

to adapt. And Farm street adapted so quickly. And

I really think that that's due to Ruth Holgate,

who at the time was one of the leaders of young

adult Group.

>> Julia: We had her on the podcast.

>> Veronica: Oh, okay.

>> Julia: Yeah.

>> Veronica: And, I think it's because she's very tech savvy

and I think that those are kind of her, her

natural gifts. But she was one of the people who

seemed to get the hand of zoom faster than anyone

else and she was able to, to kind of work the

programme and, and, and Be creative and manipulate

it in a way that it took weeks for other groups

that I belong to to. To kind of be able to do

that. So I remember as soon as lockdown started,

Farm street went online. the Young Idol group went

online. And, they had these, like, online

liturgies where we'd all, you know, have, like,

Lectio Divina or have a reading. And, we'd have,

like, beautiful music and reflections and time for

sharing. And she would even put us into breakout

groups, before anyone else really knew what a

breakout group was. And. And that was really an

anchor. I actually spent lockdown in Canada, three

months in Canada. And I felt so connected to the

young adult community. and so many things that we

started during the pandemic, which were pure

initiatives out of us, like feeling alone and

craving each other's company, still remain to this

day. So, for example, we started the online rosary

group. There were five of us. And. And basically

that's because we wanted to do something and we

wanted to pray together. and Father Jim

accompanied us. he was also one of the leaders of

the young adult group at the time, and that

continues now. And it. It grows, over the years.

It's just been going from strength to strength.

And, similarly, with lots of other kind of

initiative and groups, Farm street was just so

ahead of the curve, and such. Yeah, I think anchor

is the best word for it. Such an anchor in a time

of total turmoil. I even remember Father Jim's my

spiritual director. We had our spiritual

directions, sessions over the phone or over zoom.

there was even a retreat, for young adults over

zoom during the pandemic.

>> Julia: Well, during the Easter, because that's actually

how I ended up getting involved in the young adult

ministries in the first place, because I got

invited to that young adult retreat online. Yeah,

you got to have, like, spiritual direction with

someone every day and reflect as it was in Holy

Week, as it was coming naturally. So what did it

mean for you, being part of, like, a community in

a time of, like, of such uncertainty?

>> Veronica: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. It gave

certainty. It gave, anchoring and certainty. In a

time where I feel like so many people were kind of

running around with their heads cut off. Farm

street was just, like, very secure. And I use Farm

street as kind of a metaphor for God. it's like he

knew all along who he was, come good or bad,

whether he never falters or doubts. and I think

that was a really formative experience to See

firsthand, like, come hell or high water, God's

gotcha.

>> Julia: So now we are five years later from the pandemic.

How does the Young Adult Ministries fit into your

life?

>> Veronica: So it continues to grow, and I think we continue

to grow with it. a lot of those initiatives that I

talked about still go on. but I would say the main

focus is the young adult Mass. And. And that

remains kind of the. The jewel in the crown of. Of

all of the programming that it has. it was

actually really cool because, Audrey, who directs

the choir, when the. When we were first allowed

back in the church to have services, she played

the same song, which was the last song that she

played at the last Mass before lockdown. And I

thought that that was really beautiful, that sense

of. That constancy, of God. And I think, it was.

It was actually really, really special because,

for a lot of us, we hadn't heard live music in

months. so no one wanted to leave the church. No

one wanted to leave the Mass. I remember the

priest, like, gave us the blessing and dismissed

us and stood by the door, and all of us just

stayed in our pews. We didn't want to move. there

was a sense of, like, we're home, we're together

again. The music was beautiful. And, I remember

saying to Audrey after. Imagine we had known when

the pandemic started and we thought that our lives

were going to fall to pieces. Imagine we'd known

that we'd be back a few months after in the same

church, in our same pews, her playing and us

listening to the same song. That kind of played us

out. I think so many times in life, it's like you.

You kind of play that game where it's like, well,

God, if you just reassured me or if you showed me,

then I'd be okay and I wouldn't doubt and

whatever. And it's like time and time. I don't

know if it is for you, but time and time again for

me, it's like that always happens. That pattern

always repeats itself. Like, you doubt, you doubt,

you doubt. You're like, come on, God, please, just

this one time. And he always pulls through.

>> Julia: He does always pull through. I remember we all

were, like, sat in lockdown going, right, life is

going to be so different when we get back up. We

had such, like, such dreams, such hopes,

apocalyptic visions. But just even I was like. I

think everyone was like, okay, we've learned to

slow down. We're going to remember to slow down.

>> Veronica: Oh, my gosh I had so many resolutions.

>> Julia: And five years later, I think we're busier than we

were.

>> Veronica: The same pre pandemic, we're probably worse.

>> Julia: So how does that, how does the YAM community fit

in for you now?

>> Veronica: Again, just that sense of constancy and, and that

sense that whatever happens, that group is there.

we've all become so much closer as a friend group.

that it's not even just about the young adult

community anymore. It's like, those are your

friends, that is your family. so we do so many

dinners and so many outings, and, we just hang out

all the time. and whether it revolves around

something religious or not, that is like your core

group of people who you trust, you count on, you,

you rely on, and, and who are just fun to be

around.

>> Julia: I get the absolute privilege of seeing you most

Sundays.

>> Veronica: Yeah.

>> Julia: And seeing how God works through you.

>> Veronica: Yeah.

>> Julia: But I kind of want to ask you, how does God work

through you?

>> Veronica: Yeah. Great question. I think I'm still, like,

figuring it out. and there's a great Ignatian

kind, of phrase of like, the fingerprints of God

or, like, when you can see God at work. And

there's been so many times where I'm like, I

notice the pattern over and over and again and I'm

like, something's up. But I find more and more I

see him at work in my kind of, like, opening up to

other people. I find that he helps me so much. It

comes so naturally for me to then want to do the

same for others. and more and more I see myself as

kind of like a conduit or bridge to bringing his

voice into the world. As conceited as that sounds,

because that sounds really conceited. but in just

like tiny, tiny, tiny ways where I know what a

difference he's made to me and I find it such a,

such a joy to be able to do that for others.

>> Julia: I think that's what we're all called to do anyway,

isn't it. Like, to be Jesus's hands and feet in

the world?

>> Veronica: Yeah.

>> Julia: Tell me about the makeup artist.

>> Veronica: Okay, so just to contextualise for people

listening, they're like, what is the makeup

artist? so we had, like, a little pre chat and I

mentioned, some key moments where I can, like, see

God at work. And I have so many. but I just kind

of thought, like, this one is one that kind of

really encapsulates what happens a lot. there was

a big event that I was getting ready for. And it

demanded basically having hair and makeup done,

because it was quite a high profile event. And

this makeup artist came to my house and so I had

no connection to this lady whatsoever. And she was

coming over and, I don't know if this ever happens

to you, but sometimes like, you kind of think

about your environment based on, like, who's

coming. So when my friends are coming over, like,

I don't mind that they see like the Bible open and

like all my, like, statues or whatever, like my

images of Mary everywhere. But sometimes I think

like, oh, maybe people find that like a bit much

if, like, they don't come from a faith background.

So sometimes I kind of like start to tidy. And I

remember thinking like, well, I don't have time.

She's just gonna have to love it. And, and she

came in and she was great. And we met and she did

my makeup and we had like the typical chat that

you have about whatever. And, as she was packing

up to leave, she looks at my little statue of

Saint Therese and she goes, oh, who's that? And I

remember looking at St. Therese and being like,

okay, I see what you're doing. Fine, I'll go with

it. and I thought like, okay, St. Therese is at

work. Let's like, let's see what she does. And I

was like, oh, that's St. Therese. she's like one

of the first saints that I was introduced to.

She's amazing. She's super, super powerful. And I

started like, talking about her and she was like,

wow. You know, I actually went to a school called

Teresa. And, but it was actually Teresa of Avila.

And I was like, oh, that's actually another

saying. But she just started like coming up with

all the stuff, and she felt so much affinity to

what was happening. And so we kept chatting and

she's like, you know, I used to pray, but, I don't

really have any faith background. And actually

I've been thinking lately how I should maybe get

back into, maybe like into developing my spiritual

life and praying and. And I was like, okay, cool.

Well, if you, if you want to pray, and now that

you've met Saint Therese, there's this, novena,

which is this like nine day prayer. And you pray

it every, every day for nine days, and I can send

it to you. And she, will grant you what you ask

for. And the way that you'll know is she'll give

you red roses or just roses in general. And she

was like, oh, that sounds so interesting. And I'm

like, yes, but like, really ask for what you want

because she's very, very powerful. And, and like,

on your first go, she'll really honour that. And

she was like, okay, well, I have something I'd

really, really like. And I'm like, cool, go for

it. And then she was actually going to New York,

shortly thereafter. And we talked about going to

St. Patrick's and the fact that they have a relic

of St. Therese there. Anyways, lo and behold, I

sent her the, the screenshot of the. The prayer

from, that I found online. And the phone was kind

of quiet. Then this message comes in and she's

like, oh, I'm in New York, I'm in St. Patrick's

and look. And she takes a photo and she's like, I

went to visit St Therese and she shows me like the

relic and stuff. And then she goes and look at

what happened. And she sends a photo. And she was

engaged. And there is, this bouquet of 12 red

roses. And she said, what I most wanted to was to

get engaged to this man. And I prayed so hard for

it. and then to have him propose and have the red

roses there, she's like, was such a huge

confirmation. And she actually messaged me since

this was a few years ago, with like, further

updates, which I think are testament to her faith

journey continuing. And it just kind of shows you,

like, at the time you're like, oh, I'm too busy to

put away like a statue of Saint Therese. And the

whole time Saint there is like, no, no, don't

worry, I've got plans.

>> Julia: And it's also that thing of quite often we can do

it because we don't want to talk about it. And

it's a bit, I don't want to say embarrassing, but

like, we don't want to have that kind of

conversation where, like, this isn't, that saying.

It's a professional saying, but actually God can

be in all of those moments.

>> Veronica: And he is, and he delights in it. And I think the

more you go out on a limb, the more God's like,

yeah, let's do it. And it's like you're project

together kind of, and. And again, that kind of

storey has happened so many times that I start to

see the pattern. Which is, which is why as soon as

she said, oh, who's that? I just knew straight

away, oh, Saints Ra is just going to go do her

thing. And each time I sweat because I'm Like, I'm

telling these people to ask for the impossible.

Like, you better deliver, because this is your.

This is your. This is your chance. This is your

one shot. Like, it's. You know, they've maybe left

the faith or had no faith, and this is the opener.

And she never fails. And so many times there will

be situations where I'm like, oh, my gosh, that

person is like, good luck. The stakes are high.

She always delivers and it's. It's crazy.

>> Julia: Do you have any other stories you'd like to share

with us?

>> Veronica: Yeah, I have tonnes. there's one recently which

really sticks out to me more than anything because

it keeps developing. that one started basically at

the Jubilee of young people in Rome this year. So

we're in 2025, it's the Jubilee of Hope, and a lot

of us went to Rome, for this special moment with

the Pope and with each other, essentially. They

had set up about, like 200 tents and there was

confession and anyone who wanted to partake could.

And, we were waiting outside in our line and I saw

this girl and she looked about my age and she was

crying and she was wearing sunglasses and. And I

could tell that she was crying because every once

in a while she would, put a Kleenex kind of

underneath her sunglass and wipe her tears. And

she was kind of pretending that she wasn't. And I

just remember seeing her and just seeing myself in

her. And I know that whole crying and pretending

you're not crying, but actually secretly just

wanting the world to acknowledge the fact that

you're really sa. God and. And to, like, come hug

you. And I. I felt this sense of, like, go talk to

her. Go. Go tell her, like, God loves her. And,

and I had this, like, whole discussion with God,

like, yeah, I really want to do it, but, like, I

don't know, like, what if that's not what she's

crying about? Or, you know, like, I don't know,

but I really, really want to, but I'm not brave

enough. And person in front of her went up and I

thought, okay, now or never, because it's going to

be her turn next. And I just remember saying to

God, like, oh, I don't know if I'm brave enough.

And God's like, come on, go do it. And I'm like,

okay, fine. And I remember taking that first step

and like, oh, that's it, we've committed. Now we

have to go. and I just went up to her and. And I

was Like, God loves you. And she just looked at me

and I was like, God loves you. And I think he

really wanted you to hear that. And she just looks

at me and I'm like, I think you need a hug. And I

just hugged her and she just, like, started

crying. And, and we were, like, laughing and

crying together because it was just such a bizarre

but special moment. And, I went back to my queue

and it was her turn to go up for confession. And,

so she went in and. And I was waiting for mine.

And I thought, like, oh, I wish I could keep

talking to her. but my confession carried, on. And

then when I came out, she was there and she was

talking to my friends and I thought, oh, she

waited for me. That's epic. And we started

chatting and she doesn't speak English and I don't

speak Italian. And we spoke for about half an

hour. I think it was like an epic game of

charades. and my friends were like, why is she

talking about. Because they've been talking for,

like, half an hour and they don't speak each

other's language. But I think when God's in it,

you do speak each other's language. And I. And I.

That language of tears. And what I saw in her, I

just. I knew it because I knew it in me. And, that

was a really, really beautiful moment. And, and we

stayed in touch. And it's crazy because the last

few months, that was in August, each time I think

of her, she'll randomly message, like, as I'm

thinking of her, and vice versa. It's just really

special. Anyways, I, Out of the blue, she messaged

yesterday as I was prepping for, this interview.

And I said, you know, do you mind if I actually

talk about the storey? And do you mind if I tell

people on the podcast and I'll just refer to you

as the beautiful Italian girl? Don't worry, I

won't say anything. And she said, And I'm going to

read what she said because I think it's super

powerful and I think it speaks to God at work. She

writes, oh, how wonderful. Of course you can. I am

honoured from the bottom of my heart. Your words

are always full of love and my heart smiles when I

read them. When you speak on the podcast tomorrow,

please testify that the Italian girl had her heart

in the grip of death and emptiness, that so much

pain made her doubt that there could be any hope

for her life, that she doubted that anything

beautiful could ever happen in her life. Again,

that it is a sin not to believe that a word of

love can touch your life. And that an equally

beautiful Spanish girl told her God loves you,

reassuring her as if she knew everything her heart

was feeling and her heart was reborn. And that God

spoke to her through her deepest wound. That God

is not disgusted by our darkness. It is important

to understand that God's love passes through the

love of our brothers and sisters and through their

attentions. It seems trivial, but it is often

forgotten. Many people around me forgot this years

ago. And this leads to darkness. And then she

says, you're Spanish, right? And I just think that

that is so powerful because we're both random

girls, we didn't know each other and we have this

now, this beautiful friendship because of tears

and because of seeing someone and thinking, like,

I know that. And I just felt so drawn to just tell

her, like, God loves you. Because that is. Isn't

that exactly what you want people to tell you when

you're in the same boat? Yeah.

>> Julia: So what does seeing God in all things mean to you?

>> Veronica: I think just seeing him, so alive and so vibrant

and, I wish that I could say that I've had some

kind of Damascus Ah moment where, like, you have

this flash of lightning and this voice that tells

you your mission, but I haven't and I have a

sneaky suspicion I won't. so I think the seeing

God in all things is the seeing the tiny moments

of him at work and giving enough credit to those

and enough confirmation to that's him and that's

his hand and that's his voice. rather than. Yeah,

than hoping for that kind of epic biblical moment

where your life changes. It's more like kind, of

gentle hand holding along the way.

>> Julia: And I recently was talking to someone about this,

about how often you hear those stories of, like,

what I describe as boom moments.

>> Veronica: Like which moments?

>> Julia: Boom moments.

>> Veronica: Boom.

>> Julia: Boom.

>> Veronica: Ah. Okay.

>> Julia: So it's where, like, you hear people talking on

stages and they say, and then, boom, God did this.

And then suddenly I had faith

>> Veronica: And my life changed.

>> Julia: And your life changed. And I remember growing up,

always being like, well, I already believe in God,

so that's not never going to happen to me. And I

was.

>> Veronica: That's so depressing.

>> Julia: No, well, maybe it was. But eventually I realised

I had, like, these little, like, click moments.

>> Veronica: Totally.

>> Julia: And it wasn't like a big bang, and suddenly I was

full of faith. It was like God just, like, clicked

in my life instead.

>> Veronica: Totally. Totally. And I think he knows what we

need. Right. So St. Paul needed to fall off his

horse and go blind for three days. Okay, cool. I

don't. But I could say I've been blind for like

years because, you know, you also need.

>> Julia: And Ignatius, they always talk about the

cannonball moment, which is where cannonball came

and hit his leg. And then he was in bed rest for a

long time. And it was that time that he really

found his faith as well.

>> Veronica: Yeah. And totally shattered his. His dreams and

his hopes for what he wanted, what he thought his

life was going to look like. And he had to kind of

recalculate and he thought it was the end. And

actually it was just the beginning.

>> Julia: And, actually maybe I'm really grateful that I

don't have to. Maybe I should touch wood on this.

God doesn't decide to do this to me, but at the

moment, he's not had this moment where he just

needed to give me a cannonball to change my life.

>> Veronica: Yeah.

>> Julia: He said, gently nudged me.

>> Veronica: Yeah.

>> Julia: So how do you align your life with God's plans for

you then?

>> Veronica: Oh, Julia, if I had an answer for that one, we

wouldn't be here. No, I. If anyone knows how to

answer that question, then they have made it. I

think the whole point is to not know. I think the

whole point is that you're still learning. And I

think the whole magic of it is that you're still

just a kid and your dad has plans and it's kind

of. It's kind of not for you to know the whole

plan yet because you're. You're still just. He's

still just guiding you and he's just. He'll let

you know what you need to know when you need to

know it. I think like a good father. and I think

that if now he told me, like, okay, this is your

plan for your life, I'd be like, what? Like, how's

that going to work? And it's too much info. but

how do I know that it's aligning to what I think

is where we're going? I think it's those small

confirmations and I think it's also the, the

fruits right. Like, you can judge the tree by its

fruit. I think, there's so many things that happen

in your life that you just. You. You're able to

discern. You've been. You've been discerning for

long enough that you're able to see. Yeah. The

fingerprints. Like, does that seem like it's of

God? Does that. Does that kind of taste and smell

of God. Does that sound like God? and just like in

a relationship, you know, if my mom all of a

sudden were to say something on my WhatsApp chat

that didn't sound like my mom, I'd be like, m.

That's not her. That's not in character. Who's

there? What's. Who's doing that? I think it's kind

of the same. You start to, you know, like, the

shepherd, the sheep will know the shepherd's

voice. It's like, yeah, you do start to just know.

Doesn't mean you don't doubt. Oh, my God, I could

have, like, a PhD in doubt. yeah. Graduate with

distinction. doesn't mean you don't doubt. But

you. You start to learn more and more. What.

What the path looks like and. And where to keep

going, keep walking.

>> Julia: Does your life look like what you expected it to

look like when you were graduating?

>> Veronica: Ooh. that's a great question. It definitely looks

like exactly what I wanted it to look like, but I

think it looks better than I thought it could have

been.

>> Julia: So if somebody is, like, deciding what to do in

their life, what piece of advice would you give to

them so that they can hear God's voice in it?

>> Veronica: I'd probably give the advice that my brother gives

me, which is chill out. whenever I'm, like,

stressing about whatever, like, how's that going

to work? Or how's that going to happen? Or how are

those 50 variables that I think are completely

essential to that thing panning out, going to line

up? He's always like, chill, just chill. and I

think that that is true. Like, let's put it into

context. Like, God is your father. That's all you

need. That's it. Like, you're in the best hands

possible. The Creator of the universe made you and

adores you and delights in you. That's it.

>> Julia: That's really powerful to hear.

So what do you wish you knew about seeing God in

all things?

>> Veronica: I think I wish that I could, like, enjoy it more

in the moment rather than. I think. well, I'll

speak for myself, but I think we do have a

tendency to, like, enjoy it once it happened and,

like, looking back, because we know that it all

worked out. but I think the real trick is to enjoy

it at each step. especially when you're not sure

how it's going to end up, because the pattern

teaches you that you do know how it's. My dad has,

a great piece of Advice that he always gives me.

watch the pattern, don't watch the moment. And

what does the pattern teach you? And I often find

whenever you're like, in a really tricky moment.

Okay, yeah, that's the moment we acknowledge it.

But what is the trend? Like, what does the pattern

tell us? And I think whenever you're. You find

yourself in those moments where you're, like,

unsure and you're like, am I seeing God in this?

Like, is he in this? Okay, the moment might make

you doubt, but what is the trend? And put it into

that context, do you journal?

>> Julia: Because I find that really helpful for that as

well. When you're looking at trends and patterns.

>> Veronica: Totally. I've been writing in my diary since I was

like. I think the first entry maybe is like, six

or seven. Yeah. And there's so many times where I

don't know if this happens to you, but there's so

many times where I'm like, I just need to write.

It's like, I need to write. And as soon as I write

it, it's done and it all comes out. And there will

be times where it's months or weeks that I don't.

And then there are other times where it's like,

twice a day. I'm like, oh, my God, I need to

write.

>> Julia: What are you grateful for?

>> Veronica: Oh, I'm grateful for this. I'm grateful for

another stepping stone where you can see God at

work and yet you don't really know what the next

step looks like. And I'm grateful for the. Yeah,

the journey. The fact that, like, I wouldn't be

here had I not gone on a plane at 25 with, like,

blind ambition of, like, my London life and this

new chapter. And I'm grateful for the fact that

God knew then all the things that were going to

happen and that he was there holding my hand the

whole time, when I felt it, when I didn't, when I

would rage against him, like, why aren't you here?

And the whole time he's like, I'm, right here. I'm

grateful for all that. I'm grateful for the

journey.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to Things I Wish I Knew. I

know this episode is going to stay with me because

of the powerful stories of Veronica witnessing her

faith to others. How about you? We'd love to hear

how Veronica's story resonates with you. And why

not also tell us if you're facing an experience

you wish you knew how to look at differently, it

might just be something we can help with. You can

find out more about this and other

themes at thinkingfaith.org. Thank you again for

listening. I hope you'll join me again next time

on Things I Wish I Knew.