00:00:00.02
Talal K
you it's good to see you and uh we're ready to go whenever you are

00:00:01.72
alexei sayle
see two

00:00:07.00
alexei sayle
okay hi everybody it's alexis cell back with the alexis podcast podcast number 110 110 of course there's bf uh 110 the disappointing um twin engine uh heavy fighter of the luftwaffe during the second world war or zestora was the other name for it destroyer but um They thought it would be a complement to the BF 109. Often you know people say ME 109. It's not an ME 109. It's an ME BF 109. And the 110 was the BF 110. But in the end, it it was it was conceived by Goering and the Luftwaffe as a a fighter. But in the end, it needed fighter escort to operate successfully. Later on, the war became a successful ah night fighter.

00:00:58.78
Talal K
Jesus fucking Christ.

00:01:02.36
alexei sayle
oppos

00:01:02.74
Talal K
is this World War Two?

00:01:04.38
alexei sayle
Yes, we're second world war.

00:01:05.02
Talal K
Why didn't need an escort to like refuel it?

00:01:07.64
alexei sayle
Now, just to protect it from other, from from Spitfires and hurricanes.

00:01:08.10
Talal K
Oh,

00:01:11.70
Talal K
It wasn't very like agile or anything.

00:01:13.59
alexei sayle
No, it was it was a it was a it was a disappointment.

00:01:13.94
Talal K
No, look at it. It's a big hulking thing.

00:01:16.47
alexei sayle
ran as ah as if They thought it would be out. Because, of course, the definition of the great World War II era fighter bomber, of course, is the de Havilland Mosquito, twin mailing engines.

00:01:31.13
Talal K
What number did that...

00:01:32.08
alexei sayle
superb machine it just called it i mean it went went through many different marks there's just called the mosquito i've been to see i've been to the factory which was in hartford i developed as a private project by the have london then later taken on

00:01:36.57
Talal K
Uh-huh, uh-huh.

00:01:42.47
Talal K
Mr. Schmidt. Okay, fascinating stuff.

00:01:46.26
alexei sayle
ah

00:01:46.30
Talal K
you were But you were just in Germany, though, weren't you as well?

00:01:49.34
alexei sayle
yeah so i have to say i've said this before i don't know how i'll you know whether this it doesn't exactly burnish my um

00:01:50.04
Talal K
Did you...

00:01:56.80
alexei sayle
left-wing credentials, but I have a predilection to go on the sorts of cruises that are advertised before Midsummer Murders on ICV3. Not Viking. I've never been on a Viking cruise. I think there's actually their ships look all right.

00:02:11.11
alexei sayle
They're quite stark and modern Viking, but we were... ah on a similar ship. It's that we started off, we flew into Budapest overnight on the ship in Budapest and then sailed up the ah west along the Danube. So we went Budapest, Bratislava,

00:02:33.72
alexei sayle
Linz in Austria, ah there were other places, and then ending up in... in in in vienna and then we're supposed to go on but the the the lock was broken so anyway and we ended we had to go into another ship and and the the last night i think we spent in passau in in the danube and then flew through from munich airport i have to say munich airport is the worst airport i've ever been if we need any more evidence of the collapse of uh german civil civilization and look no further than munich airport it's a

00:02:47.64
Talal K
Right.

00:03:10.07
Talal K
Really? It's probably quite old.

00:03:10.97
alexei sayle
ah It's really old-fashioned. it's It's got weird kind of idiosyncratic... It doesn't have that kind of standardized lettering, you know, signage. So it's all like weird...

00:03:25.05
alexei sayle
like it says you know like checking gates a and then there's like ah an arrow and it points to like a wall and stuff and it's just it sends you down and up and uh it was it was terrible and there's a very i mean very slow passport control and shaollandda that's you know that's perhaps deliberate uh and just oh it's the way is so i would definitely qualify um

00:03:47.93
Talal K
It sounds like an Ikea. Yeah.

00:03:49.21
alexei sayle
Yeah, i can maybe, yeah. But it's it's the worst. I mean, I've been in some airports and the worst airport I've ever been in. it took it i mean took us two hours to get from, you know, being dropped off at the airport. we to We had to go straight to the gate, you know, to get the plane.

00:04:05.06
alexei sayle
It was...

00:04:05.62
Talal K
Wow.

00:04:07.51
alexei sayle
ah But this is this is what I do. So i spent Christmas Day in Vienna, ah which is a beautiful, beautiful city.

00:04:13.14
Talal K
wow

00:04:15.58
alexei sayle
you know oh yeah Also Linz, of course. Linz is an interesting place. an amazing city. I mean, I think it's in Austria.

00:04:23.12
Talal K
Where's that? Uh-huh. ahhu

00:04:25.39
alexei sayle
Restored, I think it was quite heavily bombed because it was a big center of manufacturers, a a big steel town. And, you know, but rather than like, you know, what they like, what we did with Sheffield or Birmingham, which is basically flatten it and put roads through it what they've done is restored the city to its its former glory.

00:04:45.11
alexei sayle
There is a school in um in, right in the center of Linz where both Adolf Hitler and Ludwig Wittgenstein, the the greatest philosopher of all time, we're in the same school and we're actually scheduled to be in the same class. But, um,

00:05:02.10
alexei sayle
there was an exam or something and Wittgenstein was put up a year and Hitler was put down a year. So they never actually were in the same class.

00:05:08.15
Talal K
Oh.

00:05:11.06
Talal K
Wow.

00:05:11.16
alexei sayle
ah But it's where it's where it's, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:12.06
Talal K
That was like probably a crossroads in in in the world's history. Everything could have gone very differently.

00:05:19.80
alexei sayle
um It's, you know, it's it's it's what is the time that Hitler thought of as his... home um but um extraordinary place uh extraordinarily beautiful and um yeah i mean the you know the way that you it's now know leading kind of in green technology and all that is the way rather than the way britain has re know approached post-war redevelopment which is to make everything is to just flatten everything Linz is an example really of just you know making a you know taking the best of of of of the past and adding it to the technologies of the future and making a really harmonious whole, you know, was britain's Britain's urban redevelopment is just a ah nightmare, and particularly, course, from northern northern cities.

00:06:12.33
Talal K
Right. But that does lead to, there are, I'm sure it's not without its problems. you know If you go to Paris, some of the you know the flats there, they they struggle getting water or internet because they're just such ancient structures that they just refuse to to redevelop in a substantial way.

00:06:19.80
alexei sayle
Yeah, the Budon Ville, yeah. Yeah.

00:06:25.72
alexei sayle
Oh, yeah.

00:06:30.01
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:06:30.49
Talal K
Still got the same foundations and walls and and pipes.

00:06:33.11
alexei sayle
that's But that's why all the French are so slim and fit, because they have to walk up.

00:06:37.46
Talal K
And angry.

00:06:37.94
alexei sayle
Takes flights of stairs every day, but yeah, they are angry about that. Yeah.

00:06:42.94
Talal K
I saw a video of ah of this ah American who lives in Paris and she was like, I'm going to show you um my journey to my apartment from the street. And she's like, literally, she's on the street and she just shows you a point of view video of her getting into her flat from the street.

00:06:58.55
alexei sayle
Right. Because

00:06:59.80
Talal K
And it takes the video. I'm not kidding, is four and a half minutes long.

00:07:04.50
alexei sayle
she has to go up the stairs.

00:07:04.70
Talal K
if not longer, she has to take stairs, rickety old lift with no door on it, and then a bunch more stairs, random corridors, ah and about, she needs like three sets of keys to reach this tiny poxy little den.

00:07:05.66
alexei sayle
All

00:07:10.06
alexei sayle
right.

00:07:17.69
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. They have some complicated, you can't go around somebody's flat in Paris. They have to give you a code that you have to punch in and then it's incredibly.

00:07:26.63
Talal K
Mm.

00:07:27.74
alexei sayle
Actually, we could talk a bit about Lyft. Here's the thing. if you had Have you ever heard of a paternoster?

00:07:35.83
Talal K
No, I'm going to be honest.

00:07:37.85
alexei sayle
Well, a paternoster. is ah is a continuous lift. It's like a kind of conveyor belt. They used to have one in the English department at Newcastle University when I used to go up there when I was still at school and I was friendly but not friendly with Wilco Johnson and Brian Ferry. um ah And it's a sort of like, it' so it's a continuous, so it's not one lift. It's like a load of lifts following each other.

00:08:07.32
alexei sayle
And with no doors on it.

00:08:07.51
Talal K
Oh my god.

00:08:08.72
alexei sayle
And you just jump in and jump off. um i think it was probably, probably consider i don't know whether it's British technology, it's probably a bit dangerous, really. I think there's obvious there's obvious dangers there in terms of getting trapped between the the roof of the lift and the and the the kind of the the entrance and stuff. But for a while there in the 60s, you'd from time to time encounter a paternoster,

00:08:35.54
alexei sayle
I don't know whether you'd still encounter them anymore, but I'd love to hear people's recollections of them.

00:08:39.86
Talal K
There's one in the University of Sheffield in the Arts Tower, one in Aston University as well in the main building.

00:08:42.42
alexei sayle
Okay, that's interesting, Sheffield. Right.

00:08:48.25
alexei sayle
But seems to be popular in universities, yeah.

00:08:50.84
Talal K
And in Germany, Prague and Netherlands, you'll find them too.

00:08:54.42
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:08:55.62
Talal K
It's called a Pater Noster, which means our father. Do you know why? Can you guess why?

00:08:59.45
alexei sayle
no. no

00:09:01.50
Talal K
Because of the resemblance of rosary beads, the way they rotate.

00:09:05.51
alexei sayle
Oh, lordy, lordy. that interesting? See, it was a sort of challenge to Big Lift, wasn't it? It was the Paternoster Corporation, probably like plucky little guys. And they were like, this yeah, you've got Big Lift.

00:09:16.59
alexei sayle
got Otis and Schindler and Krupp.

00:09:18.97
Talal K
Schindler.

00:09:20.76
alexei sayle
and And they were like, yeah, we're plucky little. We've got a different lift. But of course, they were Big Lift in the end. discredited them just because people got stuck between them.

00:09:34.39
alexei sayle
I don't know. I don't know.

00:09:35.19
Talal K
That's crazy.

00:09:35.31
alexei sayle
it Yeah, yeah. But yeah, anybody's got any recollections of Pata Nosta? The plucky little lift that said no to him.

00:09:45.56
Talal K
When my sister, my eldest sister was a baby in like in 1979 maybe, or maybe 81, they were in Damascus.

00:09:58.49
Talal K
My mum had her in a pram on a lift. And it was one of those lifts with like the you know the the door that you slide back and forth yourself manually with a concertina door, yeah.

00:10:07.88
alexei sayle
Yeah. umine Yeah. Yeah. God. yeah

00:10:12.41
Talal K
And so you can see the walls rushing by as you go up. And um my sister's like shoelace got caught or something and she ended up getting dragged into it. And my mum got it to stop pretty quickly, but not before my leg sister's legs, my leg sister, ah technically also true, um were trapped in between the wall and the lift.

00:10:37.11
alexei sayle
art Lord, Lord.

00:10:37.50
Talal K
And she ended up having to go to hospital and get surgery on her legs and stuff. But luckily she was too young to remember it.

00:10:43.88
alexei sayle
Right.

00:10:44.12
Talal K
And babies are very soft and malleable, but I can't imagine how scary.

00:10:47.41
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:10:50.14
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's, yeah.

00:10:52.68
Talal K
And the paternoster doesn't, at least there's nothing to get trapped in.

00:10:54.49
alexei sayle
Yeah, pattern. Well, pattern, I still wouldn't.

00:10:56.67
Talal K
It's kind of just like open faced.

00:10:56.87
alexei sayle
No, nothing to get stuck. No, maybe we should. do, I've looking time to time. I've started looking from time to time. They're doing some interesting things in lifts now for for the older older client.

00:11:10.55
alexei sayle
You know, think we're in that.

00:11:11.22
Talal K
Really?

00:11:12.33
alexei sayle
Yeah, you can can get your own lift for about 30 grand, I think. Go straight through the floorboards.

00:11:16.33
Talal K
Oh, like in your house. Wow.

00:11:19.22
alexei sayle
um but don't and it they don't I don't know how they work. and They're not like conventional lifts with like counterweight and stuff like that.

00:11:25.91
Talal K
Yeah.

00:11:27.71
alexei sayle
They just seem to go...

00:11:28.25
Talal K
It's like a hydraulic piston shoots you up into your living room.

00:11:28.83
alexei sayle
I don't know how they work, really, but...

00:11:33.94
alexei sayle
Possibly, or explosives.

00:11:34.65
Talal K
Or suction tube.

00:11:36.70
alexei sayle
Yeah, explosive charges.

00:11:37.84
Talal K
You're getting to that age. Have you thought about getting a steno stairlift in your flat?

00:11:41.02
alexei sayle
Yeah, well, I got one for my mum, really. um I got one for my mum. i was Spectacularly ungrateful, as usual. um ah You know, it was kind of fun to ride on for a while, really.

00:11:59.18
alexei sayle
There's a brilliant episode. in the The actress who played, she died, who played Tony Sobrano's mother. A brilliant, I mean, reminded me of my mother, really. and But there's a brilliant, I think the first time we see her is Tony's round at her house and she appears from the top right-hand corner on a stairlift, slowly coming into frame. It's the great pieces of television making of all time. And he's malevolent, poisonous, uh,

00:12:28.95
alexei sayle
character who thought when we started this this show was going to be like i mean how far in are we now 12 minutes and we're still talking about lifts this is the kind of shit you don't get now lbc isn't it really this is what you get and the rest is the rest is history the rest is men who look like monkeys

00:12:48.34
Talal K
Ah, fucking LBC, man. Why do they give airtime to... LBC winds me up so much because they shouldn't fucking give airtime to these toxic, disgusting opinions as if they are important or educated or informed.

00:13:04.09
alexei sayle
Well, it's it's um traffic, isn't it, really? It's just, that I don't know. I never listen to it, really.

00:13:08.31
Talal K
I understand why it exists, but there should be some regulation or... Or the people who are, the present, there should never just be one presenter, there should be two presenters so that it's, ah because they end up sometimes have like a fascist, talking to a fascist and it just just winds me up.

00:13:26.65
alexei sayle
Really? i dont i never, listen do you listen to it when you're out driving your cab? i don't um I don't ever listen to I see occasionally see clips on YouTube of Dick Ferrari.

00:13:36.54
Talal K
Yes, yes, that's what I get, yeah. I'm just watching this very hypnotic footage of a of a ride on a Paternoster in Prague. Oh wow, when you get to the top, you can see the gears as it turns you around.

00:13:49.83
alexei sayle
Really?

00:13:50.42
Talal K
That looks dangerous. You'd wanna stick your arm in that, it'd be so tempting. You'd end up like my Buster Keaton spinning around the cogs.

00:13:59.07
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:14:00.80
Talal K
Alexei, we've been away for a couple of weeks. Apologies to our listeners.

00:14:03.74
alexei sayle
Yeah, I've not been well ready. We should have done one. I've got the cold that's going around, the one that comes on very, very quickly.

00:14:09.37
Talal K
Yes.

00:14:11.50
alexei sayle
And then it's, I mean, we I'm getting towards the end of week two now and still, not by any means 100% really I haven't been out in the evenings or anything just occasionally for a short drive or a walk to the shops so he as much as I can do but ah um but it does I mean it does make me feel if I go away the world does go to shit even more doesn't it i mean I do feel like if I've been keeping an eye on things maybe some of the invasion of Venezuela might not have happened

00:14:44.86
Talal K
Yes, Venezuela. that's the That's the big thing that happened while we were away.

00:14:47.38
alexei sayle
ben butla

00:14:50.90
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:14:51.74
Talal K
um

00:14:52.57
alexei sayle
I mean, presumably that.

00:14:52.66
Talal K
And yeah, I have to somehow somewhat blame you a little bit because you were off the clock when that happened.

00:14:57.56
alexei sayle
I know. I know. I agree. I blame myself.

00:15:01.85
Talal K
Starting the new year with a bang, I suppose. it's It was shocking. It's very shocking headlines, isn't it? But now it's settled down a bit.

00:15:14.01
Talal K
how what's your reflection on on the situation there and on on the kidnapping of the president

00:15:17.74
alexei sayle
um well it's still kind of mysterious i think what happened because you you've uh you know again with my military matters hat on the fact that no you i mean it looked like a very dangerous you know i mean there's that shot of the um helicopters silhouetted against the night sky and anybody with assault rifle or a light machine ah you know machine gun.

00:15:45.89
alexei sayle
or ah i think I think I saw someone taking a couple of shots at them with an Igla, which is a a man-pads, manportable ante ah a I think that there was either a remarkable level of sabotage or

00:15:54.58
Talal K
Oh, wow

00:16:06.23
alexei sayle
um power or something really that they uruguay uh venezuelan uh air defenses seem to have been turned off which uh because the some of those planes you know i mean any think venezuela had a reasonable air defense system and it just didn't operate for whatever reason so it's questions about what happened there i mean it's obviously you know it's completely illegal and uh

00:16:26.86
Talal K
Yeah.

00:16:35.64
alexei sayle
Again, it's funny, isn't it? there's I didn't see that, but there's that guy on Sky shouting at Jeremy about it. reminds me of the early days of the genocide. You know, will you condemn Maduro, you know, Amnesty International issued report?

00:16:49.78
Talal K
yeah

00:16:50.89
alexei sayle
I'm sure correctly, I'm no fan of Maduro. You know, the two two children were killed. when if you if you're If you're enforcing murders of children, you'd you'd have a list and you'd start with Benjamin Netanyahu and nobody seems to be going after him.

00:17:03.06
Talal K
Mm-hmm.

00:17:05.08
alexei sayle
and It is... I don't know. I mean, it's... um Nobody's talking about Epstein anymore, either. I mean, I don't know it's what but out to what extent Trump would go to stop all talk of that, really, because that's... um You know, that's something that's got... You know, it's difficult for him to get buried. it I mean, i I... I don't know. I... I mean, i'm nothing in particularly intro I mean, I don't... I have no...

00:17:35.45
alexei sayle
particular insight i think on these matters really apart from the the the military aspect really about what's going on or you know i mean it's wrong it's obviously a heinous contravention of uh international law if any of that's left um

00:17:52.50
Talal K
Yeah. is And how how much is it just sensationalism? like you get Because moving forward, ah there isn't much, from what I've heard, like how how much can America really control and take over America?

00:18:09.34
Talal K
Venezuela, um a lot of people are saying it would be like Vietnam times 50, you know, because of the how how much anti-American sentiment there is in in South America and the countries surrounding Venezuela, like how many militias would come in to help defend Venezuela, guerrilla fighters and armies.

00:18:10.01
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:18:26.10
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:18:27.05
Talal K
It would become a very difficult war if they decided to go and mil down a military route. And if they were to do

00:18:32.54
alexei sayle
Yeah, they're they're never going to put boots on the ground, yeah.

00:18:35.06
Talal K
if they ever wanted to try and actually control the oil, that's something that will take 10 plus years to actually ah make a substantial difference and actually start getting oil out of the the reserves and and and bringing it into America.

00:18:47.29
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:18:50.52
Talal K
So it's not a very sustainable thing. And to already, before you even started actioning that kind of stuff, to already start talking about Greenland, it does just seem, it does just seem very much,

00:19:03.61
alexei sayle
It's kind of empty theatrics in a way, isn't it? It's the illusion of, yeah.

00:19:06.07
Talal K
Theatrics. ah the I guess the most pragmatic thing is just they want to install a leader there that will just comply with American ah wishes if if they were...

00:19:08.09
alexei sayle
i think I think there's something... in

00:19:15.38
alexei sayle
Yeah, i mean i mean i mean it's it I mean, again, it you know it it it it shows up the the auto um bankruptcy of our own media. I mean, I don't know. i mean i mean I mean, all elections in Venezuela up to the one in 2024 were certified as being legitimate, really, that Maduro was democratically elected up until this election. Now, this election, I don't know the details of whether or not,

00:19:43.77
alexei sayle
He won or lost it.

00:19:43.96
Talal K
um it's very yeah

00:19:45.09
alexei sayle
But, ah you know, there's an implication that Maduro is a long-term dictator, and that's simply that's simply not true. And there was, mean, certainly, no.

00:19:54.01
Talal K
But he hasn't been good for the country. And I think in recent years, he's he has turned into he's shown signs of psychopathic dictatorship and and.

00:20:03.26
alexei sayle
I think probably there have been clampdowns on free speech. But still, there's lot. I mean, i mean my information about Renews is quite out of date, perhaps. But there was lots of independent anti-government TV channels a few years ago. um And, I mean, you remember, I mean, i remember i mean again that again, the bankruptcy and the dishonesty of our a media...

00:20:28.89
alexei sayle
A few years ago, there was a guy called Guaido who um declared himself president. it was there i I think he was like a deputy. I don't know if he was even elected to anything, but the whole of the Western media and swung behind this guy, Guaido, and said, yeah, he's the president Venezuela now. and in fact And it was only when Venezuela, the people, and its you know government, fair and nobody went along with it, but they...

00:21:00.12
alexei sayle
sort of quietly dropped him, but it was an extraordinary piece of ah kind of example of the yeah yeah of the bankruptcy. i mean And also fucking Machado getting the Nobel Peace Prize. yeah You know, she said, I think her first statement was, if if I come to power in Venezuela, I will move our embassy from tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

00:21:23.43
Talal K
Oh, and she offered to give Trump her Nobel priest Peace Prize.

00:21:27.19
alexei sayle
Yeah, right. he's Obviously, I think it does seem like he's he won't support her because he's pissed off that he didn't yeah get it, really.

00:21:35.39
Talal K
Hmm.

00:21:36.38
alexei sayle
But again, it's it shows what, you know, when you think that our media and, you know, our revered institutions like the Nobel Prize are all...

00:21:48.63
alexei sayle
you know dedicated to a kind of neoliberal imposition of a kind of neoliberal ideology, then you know it it shows you sometimes how deep the fix is, really how how distorted are our media and our political system is. you know

00:22:08.98
Talal K
Yeah.

00:22:09.78
alexei sayle
i mean i always i mean, I talked to before about Nord Stream 2.

00:22:11.50
Talal K
It's...

00:22:13.10
alexei sayle
Have i talked about Nord Stream 2 before?

00:22:15.13
Talal K
Rings a bell.

00:22:16.25
alexei sayle
The pipeline that you know the Russians were supposed to have, headlines everywhere, the Russians had blown up their own pipeline years ago.

00:22:16.31
Talal K
Refresh. us

00:22:23.51
Talal K
Yeah, that was a while ago that we spoke about it.

00:22:25.94
alexei sayle
Yeah, and then... ah And a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist called seeel Seymour Hersh, who has to now, you know whereas before he would be published by the New York Times or Washington Post, now had to release his finding on Substack, but a meticulously researched piece that that the Western security services have blown it up.

00:22:54.10
alexei sayle
And, you know, they're just... that's never been corrected. That's always been just dropped, you know? um So we live in if we, know i mean, we don't really need any more proof, but you know, it's you're constantly reminded of of of of how much of a world of lies that we live in, really.

00:23:06.42
Talal K
Yeah, and you've got... Yeah.

00:23:12.70
Talal K
yeah

00:23:15.54
Talal K
And the labor files, you know, they just feel like dust in the wind now.

00:23:18.10
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:19.30
Talal K
At this point, it's like, what even was that? Just, it's just, they just keep piling on the shit until the shit at the bottom isn't even a memory anymore.

00:23:29.14
alexei sayle
And also a friend of the podcast that we're going to have on, hopefully. I mean, that there was ah the Israel lobby in the shape of the campaign against anti-Semitism. And this lunatic, what's she called? She's not even Jewish. Daphne.

00:23:44.94
alexei sayle
I can't get her name wrong. She lives down the side. Pro-Israel lunatic. Tried to bring a Martin, um Mark Lewis. They tried to bring a case against Reginald Hunter, you know, that whole thing.

00:24:00.06
alexei sayle
And the judge threw it out and made really scathing comments against the campaign against the campaign against anti-Semitism, and just saying they're trying to get him cancelled. They were dishonest. They didn't, you know, you know they were, was clearly their evidence was not to be relied on. And that got no mention at all in the mainstream media.

00:24:21.62
alexei sayle
And it was really significant. It really showed how, It really showed the pro-Israel lobby up for what it is, really the dishonesty and the malevolence of the Israel lobby.

00:24:33.28
alexei sayle
And, of course, you've also got this you know shit with still going on with the Maccabee Tel Aviv and the Aston Villa match. where I mean, the reason, I suppose, they want to go...

00:24:42.98
Talal K
Why are they still fucking bringing that up?

00:24:44.28
alexei sayle
Because Maccabee Tel Aviv, that is the soul of Israel, these racist, violent racists, that they have to pretend that they're...

00:24:49.46
Talal K
Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:52.89
alexei sayle
people who should be, you know, but a kind of parliamentary committee, which I think is stacked with members of Labour and Conservative Friends of Israel. um

00:25:00.79
Talal K
Yeah, it was five out of, on the they they were doing a committee about the Maccabee Tel Aviv case.

00:25:01.14
alexei sayle
You know.

00:25:08.15
alexei sayle
Yeah, Parliament.

00:25:08.70
Talal K
Five out of eight of the politicians on on the committee were directly linked to their party's Friends of Israel group or or an equivalent.

00:25:17.46
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah.

00:25:20.04
Talal K
Yeah.

00:25:21.02
alexei sayle
But this, you know, the parliament... being so not caring about, you know um you know, health outcomes or justice but or genocide, but being really devoting itself to being affronted because some foreign football fans couldn't get to come and see their team players.

00:25:42.87
Talal K
Ugh.

00:25:44.52
alexei sayle
I mean, it again, it it shows the degree to which the Israel lobby really, yeah.

00:25:48.81
Talal K
They're just forcing the point. They're just trying to find any any strain of anti-Semitism in it when it was just a notoriously violent fan base that we wanted prevent coming from ah Birmingham and causing damage.

00:25:50.23
alexei sayle
yeah

00:25:54.04
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:26:01.05
alexei sayle
Yeah. yeah Yeah. And they shouldn't be allowed.

00:26:03.58
Talal K
and And yeah, the people of Birmingham were like, if they come here, we're going to fight them back. So they wanted to also prevent any sort of violence on the streets. like It's a straightforward, logical thing.

00:26:11.13
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:26:14.01
Talal K
Fucking thing to do, stop digging. And congrats to Reginald.

00:26:16.34
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:26:17.93
Talal K
And it was Heidi, Heidi Backram was the lady.

00:26:20.53
alexei sayle
Heidi Bachram, that's right.

00:26:21.69
Talal K
He was beefing on X and absolute.

00:26:22.71
alexei sayle
Not case.

00:26:25.24
Talal K
He's been dragged through it for months. It's been since early last year, it's been dragging on and on.

00:26:27.29
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:26:32.47
Talal K
And just for it to end up being nothing is is was so frustrating.

00:26:35.77
alexei sayle
Yeah. And that should have been covered. That should have been the lead in, know, the nine o'clock news or whatever, that what the judge said about the malevolence of the campaign against anti-Semitism and and this woman as well, and people like her.

00:26:48.82
Talal K
e

00:26:53.17
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:26:55.42
alexei sayle
And it's truly shocking that that story didn't get any coverage at all. I think one mention in the garden, one mention like in the Telegraph or somewhere. um But, you know, really yeah reveals the nature of our society, really, and those who argue for Israel and their turpitude.

00:27:20.82
Talal K
And that's another another thing that this theater of ah the of bangs and booms over in South America and is also distracting from is the ongoing genocide and the ongoing ah just continuous ah breakage of ceasefire in in Palestine and the West Bank, you know the army shooting at students at Bir Zet University.

00:27:20.89
alexei sayle
So, yeah, well, congratulations to the writers.

00:27:34.23
alexei sayle
Yes. Yeah.

00:27:39.48
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

00:27:49.82
Talal K
who were gathering to watch a documentary about the Hind Rajab case, um just the idea of just opening fire on them and dispersing that crowd, properties, family homes being demolished and seized,

00:27:59.94
alexei sayle
Really, I didn't see it. Yeah.

00:28:06.94
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah, all that's...

00:28:09.80
Talal K
just farmers being terrorized and it's it it's It's almost like this is, we're back to the status quo, just with a little extra spice of of genocide.

00:28:21.02
Talal K
like Because it was never peaceful there, ceasefire or not.

00:28:25.02
alexei sayle
No, no, no.

00:28:28.44
Talal K
And we need to not we need to so not stop shouting about it. And actually I got a a message on our Patreon. um If I can share it with you quickly.

00:28:41.38
alexei sayle
Mm-hmm.

00:28:42.30
Talal K
Thank you, Patreon subscribers. Support the show. Support the on the camp the ongoing production of this grassroots show. we have We don't use any advertising. It all depends on word of mouth. Please tell your friends. Please leave us a five-star review on whatever app.

00:29:01.98
Talal K
you use to listen to the podcast or like and subscribe on YouTube, whatever, but also support us by going to patreon.com forward slash Alexis sale podcast, ah watch video episodes and extra content and join the chat rooms and Anthony on the chat room ah received an email from his MP saying they're going ban repeated protests on the same subject.

00:29:30.14
Talal K
um and this is from his MP Chris Philp Croydon South Tory yes and

00:29:36.72
alexei sayle
He's a Tory. He's not part of it. I mean, that's ah that's what that would would be what the Conservatives would bring in, I suppose.

00:29:43.80
Talal K
Well, he says, it is right, in one part of the email, it is right that the impact of the cumulative disruption caused by protests is considered by the authorities. However, it is important that we get the measure right, which is why conservative Lords have put forward an amendment to replace the reference to a geographical area in definition of relevant cumulative disruption with that of a subject area.

00:30:11.96
Talal K
So basically they're gonna keep tally of how often a protest is about not just the same subject, the same geographical location.

00:30:20.31
alexei sayle
hmm yeah well yeah the tories are you know as yeah i mean tories aren't in power so i mean philip is a fuckbag and you know they are yeah you know they are our rights to protest are being continually narrowed really um

00:30:28.01
Talal K
Something they, yeah. Might not happen.

00:30:44.89
alexei sayle
Do we want to talk up at all about the Hunger? haven't really been following the Hunger Strikers overly much.

00:30:51.48
Talal K
Two of them are on the verge of death. it's It's really quite disturbing to read about and it's very hard to find any mainstream outlet talking about it.

00:31:04.25
alexei sayle
the baby I think the word that won yesterday had a long piece on it on Radio 4.

00:31:09.50
Talal K
Oh, that's something.

00:31:10.49
alexei sayle
Yeah, that's long last.

00:31:13.72
Talal K
When was the last time we had hunger strikers in UK prisons or UK soil? it's It's the IRA, isn't it?

00:31:18.34
alexei sayle
Or the eye of, you know, yeah, Bobby Sands.

00:31:24.03
Talal K
And God, 58 days, now 60 days.

00:31:24.11
alexei sayle
Yep. Yep, ye yep, yep.

00:31:30.90
Talal K
um

00:31:32.58
alexei sayle
Well, you know, I...

00:31:33.34
Talal K
And the government just refusing to do anything about it.

00:31:35.70
alexei sayle
Yeah, I mean, they'll they'll yeah they will you'll see them U-turn on, I think they're U-turning on business rates for pubs today. They'll U-turn, they will never, I don't think they will ever really U-turn on their crackdown on civil liberties. And I think that shows you who's in whose interest they are.

00:31:58.74
alexei sayle
operating, I think, really. They will not, you know, who they're trying to impress, really.

00:32:00.60
Talal K
It's, yep.

00:32:03.38
alexei sayle
um i can't see that they will ever really, I mean, maybe if, um you know, Star McGowan and Andy Burnham comes in, they may quietly drop some of that near the other prescription of Palestine action but this Starmer Starmer is so in the pocket of the Israel lobbying that he will not shift on this one thing shift on virtually anything else but he will not shift on this is my this is my guess really yeah

00:32:28.28
Talal K
and Yeah.

00:32:31.48
Talal K
and his willingness to let British people just die for the sake of the tiniest aspect of a foreign military, you know,

00:32:40.66
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, so a foreign military can make components for drones that can kill children, yeah.

00:32:44.64
Talal K
components. Yeah, just fucking.

00:32:48.50
alexei sayle
Shows you where their priorities lie.

00:32:50.94
Talal K
And it shows you they don't give a single, single fuck about any of us, you know, if it's them now,

00:32:56.47
alexei sayle
No, you're right there, mate. You're not wrong, yeah?

00:33:01.53
Talal K
think it would take so little for that for you to be next for them not to give a shit about you you or any of our listeners yeah you well you think you're immune starmer would let you die sorry don't know why

00:33:06.17
alexei sayle
Me. Not

00:33:11.99
alexei sayle
Me? Oh, that's worrying. No, not really.

00:33:19.96
alexei sayle
ah We've come a long way as well from the m highly, highly kind of structured, you know, early podcast. I was just thinking as well, haven't we really, Will? But I was wondering, to come back, I think they missed a trick there.

00:33:35.19
alexei sayle
Calling it a paternoster is not great branding, is it really? You know, if you called it like a a people shooter or something. ah know You know, it's it's not, people are not, it's not it doesn't inspire you, does it?

00:33:44.98
Talal K
Yeah.

00:33:50.02
alexei sayle
It's not like Jaguar E-Type or... McRib sandwich.

00:33:53.91
Talal K
yeah Yeah, they're romanticizing a very, just a very mechanical conveyance of, of, of,

00:33:55.03
alexei sayle
It's not so a great piece of branding, the Pater Noster, something in Latin that refers to rosary beads. I think the Pater Noster people missed a trick there.

00:34:13.27
alexei sayle
Yeah, it should have made it more romantic. yeah but I um actually i can't um have to say i can't I've got a cold, so I can't think of anything.

00:34:21.50
Talal K
Well, it reminds me of that, do you know that kid's toy where you have the penguins and there's a ladder, there's like a stairs that takes them up to the top, like this automated conveyor that takes them to the top of a hill and then the penguins shoot down this slide around this little course and then they come back to the bottom of the steps and then they get they get taken up to the top.

00:34:38.01
alexei sayle
Right. Yeah.

00:34:43.35
alexei sayle
This is like a a mechanical, this is a thing, it's a real thing, it's not a video.

00:34:43.51
Talal K
And it's a mechanical toy for kids when I was growing up. And it's like this little penguins racer thing.

00:34:54.65
Talal K
And that's what reminds me of. I can't be asked to Google because I don't even know where I'd begin, what I'd begin typing.

00:35:00.54
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:35:02.74
Talal K
So listeners at home, we want to rebrand the Pata Nosta, bring it back. This a big campaign. with After all we've discussed today Venezuela, Israel, the hunger strikers, I think the main issue we want to start a big campaign on

00:35:14.44
alexei sayle
Lyfts

00:35:17.75
alexei sayle
Yeah yeah

00:35:20.54
Talal K
bring back the paternos to make it popular.

00:35:21.91
alexei sayle
and see we're talking We're talking about ah penguins as well. Years and years ago, Lisa Mayer's son, Isaac, when he was young, was obsessed with this website, which was like, a ah it was a some sort of, it featured penguins. It was some kind of game in the Arctic. And he made me join up. So I remember I couldn't even be bothered spelling my, so I joined up as this penguin called a keksi. I couldn't even be bothered spelling my name right.

00:35:49.30
alexei sayle
And i never did anything. I don't know whether I ever, this is similar to the yeah the the driving game where I would just park my car outside my house. um I would occasionally check up on a Kaxi.

00:35:59.64
alexei sayle
But anyway, there there came a moment when they they announced that they were going to turn this game off.

00:36:04.29
Talal K
Was that... was that

00:36:06.87
alexei sayle
And so loads of people who over the years had played this game and then stopped, they all came back. for like And it's a bit like that scene where the world ends, isn't it, when ah a meteor is about to, you know.

00:36:21.53
alexei sayle
Everybody came back. and should waiting for the end of this world it was just a really interesting idea really and and i think there's like ah an orange flash and then it it didn't exist anymore somebody will know will know the game but i thought that was really interesting that loads of people kexy was there somewhere just standing there as he'd been standing there for 10 years um i'm not sure is that's that did is that one that they turned off

00:36:35.58
Talal K
who

00:36:46.14
Talal K
Was it Club Penguin?

00:36:52.76
Talal K
that's that's That's the one I'm finding, it looks like. That's the one. um oh my God, so everyone just gathered to watch the end of the world together.

00:37:02.43
alexei sayle
Yeah, to, yeah, yeah. Holding hands, perhaps.

00:37:07.69
Talal K
That's kind of beautiful.

00:37:08.89
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:37:10.26
Talal K
And you create you took Isaac in your arms and told him it's going to be okay.

00:37:14.99
alexei sayle
I don't know, don't know where that is, of course, I don't know.

00:37:15.90
Talal K
That's the bright light.

00:37:17.45
alexei sayle
Kexy was just, like, standing there. As he had done for a decade and a half.

00:37:28.44
alexei sayle
But yeah, he was there when the world ended, you know, staring up into the sky.

00:37:32.51
Talal K
Rubber dinghy rapids, bro. Remember that?

00:37:36.31
alexei sayle
No, I don't know.

00:37:37.34
Talal K
Four Lions.

00:37:40.09
alexei sayle
No.

00:37:40.34
Talal K
that That Chris Morris film, Four Lions, from years ago, about the the British terrorists.

00:37:45.75
alexei sayle
Yeah, really good film, Chris Morris, yeah.

00:37:47.19
Talal K
Yeah. They used to meet up on the Penguin game in that.

00:37:51.03
alexei sayle
ah really? Really?

00:37:51.96
Talal K
Yeah.

00:37:53.21
alexei sayle
Clever.

00:37:53.30
Talal K
And there's a...

00:37:54.01
alexei sayle
He's an interesting talent. crew I was cycling up a few years ago. i was cycling up um Oxford Street and I saw Chris Morris standing on the corner talking to Adam Curtis.

00:38:06.22
Talal K
Wow.

00:38:06.87
alexei sayle
And I thought, I'll go and say hello. i thought that would be too meta to see Adam Curtis and Alexi Sale and Chris Morris standing on the corner on Oxford Street talking would be just...

00:38:21.40
alexei sayle
too much really so i just kept cycling really very that's one of my that's one of my regrets really is that i didn't i know adam cases didn't know chris mollisburg a great admirer of his work i wish i'd stopped and gone and said hello already so that's a that's a real that's a real regret that i have

00:38:24.50
Talal K
ah

00:38:42.55
Talal K
know

00:38:45.72
Talal K
Yeah, that would have been a great photo.

00:38:47.51
alexei sayle
yeah yeah they all do know each other

00:38:53.08
Talal K
Be a great podcast as well, you three.

00:38:54.87
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:38:56.50
Talal K
You three chatting away.

00:38:57.05
alexei sayle
We get Adam Curtis on. He's only around the corner. We could get him on now, probably.

00:39:00.76
Talal K
Yeah, you've been teasing me with that for years.

00:39:02.09
alexei sayle
How have I? keep forgetting.

00:39:04.12
Talal K
Yeah.

00:39:06.06
alexei sayle
I'll go and get him now.

00:39:07.35
Talal K
Be good to get his point of view on all this.

00:39:07.81
alexei sayle
If he's in. Yeah.

00:39:12.54
Talal K
Let me have a quick wee, Alexei. Think about the next topic. I'll be right back.

00:39:15.06
alexei sayle
All right.

00:39:21.20
Talal K
Not yet, Claude.

00:39:24.89
Talal K
yeah bu the sorry

00:40:16.34
Talal K
Sorry Claude, not yet. Sorry.

00:40:23.05
Talal K
Sorry buddy. Soon.

00:40:39.16
Talal K
Have you got something or I've got something?

00:40:40.95
alexei sayle
And now, that's what I said. I just repeat my apologies. Hopefully we'll be back on schedule. I know that people like to hear this weekly. I'm sorry.

00:40:53.66
alexei sayle
have been ill, really. But you had... them ah You had somebody sent you a list of, well, anything from the listeners, really. Oh, just to say, I've finished, I mean, I think I'm going to have to do another draft, which I'm going to take, I've finished my book.

00:41:07.49
alexei sayle
So that's, yeah, so that's gone to the, that's with my editor now.

00:41:08.21
Talal K
Oh, amazing.

00:41:12.49
alexei sayle
She's going to give me notes. I think it's going to take another pass, actually, but hopefully that will only be a few days. Yeah. I mean, when and when it, you know, reading it, it really flies when it works, really, but it's it's it's probably still a bit rudimentary in parts because it's such a kind of complex endeavour, really, that um it's kind of like nothing else.

00:41:35.16
Talal K
Yeah.

00:41:37.03
alexei sayle
So that's, you know, when you you do something like that, it's always, it's it's difficult, really.

00:41:37.98
Talal K
ah

00:41:42.47
alexei sayle
But I hope, well, that's all, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:42.78
Talal K
And like with a world that is changing so rapidly every fucking day, do you try and keep up with that or do you just like let go and just try and make it a time capsule and in a way?

00:41:52.79
alexei sayle
Well, yes. I mean, you can't, you know, you can't, I mean, I think there obviously the genocide is going to be with us. And so that, as an indicator, both of ah an outrage in itself, but also a kind of ah kind of barometer of of where our political system in the West is right now and will be for the next few years.

00:42:11.77
Talal K
Yeah, yeah. Is that like the last chapter of the book?

00:42:14.29
alexei sayle
I think you can talk about, it's ah it's the last, because it's a kind of memoir, but it's also about demonstrations I've been on. So it's a kind of composite story. the last one, I mean, I chose at random, uh, uh, Gaza demonstration in May, really to just talk about the, you just try and describe it really, you know, in a kind of lyrical way, but also, uh, you know, just to, to get the kind of, you know, the, the things that are always, that are always there in those demonstrations really.

00:42:29.90
Talal K
Hmm.

00:42:37.47
Talal K
Every lyrical day.

00:42:45.79
alexei sayle
So that's, that's what one, that's one aspect of it.

00:42:49.59
Talal K
does your like Does your trusty Arabian sidekick to get a mention in the book?

00:42:49.82
alexei sayle
Um,

00:42:54.07
alexei sayle
ah do I don't think you get a mention anywhere in the book. I'm sorry.

00:42:58.52
Talal K
Nice. Good, that's what I wanted.

00:43:00.05
alexei sayle
It's not really.

00:43:00.62
Talal K
That's what wanted.

00:43:03.16
alexei sayle
um It's not. um um But, ah so, yeah yeah, but, you know, the work. But, yeah, i mean, I don't know, you know, day-to-day politics you can't keep I mean, I think, I mean, I hope we're still going for a kind of publication date in the book.

00:43:23.61
alexei sayle
early in september this year so i hope we're still going stick to that really um but um anyway that's sort of that's it's it's i said that being i mean this is the 11th draft or something there'll be i think there will be another draft but it's kind of nearly there really so that's just

00:43:45.98
Talal K
ah you Are you proud of it? Or is it hard to look at it that way now?

00:43:47.93
alexei sayle
Ah, yeah. I mean, yeah. I think, well, you know, you I mean, it's like anything. really Some days you think this is the greatest piece of art ever committed, you know, invented by mankind. Other days do you think thiss this is garbage, you know. So, um yeah, I think it's, I need, I i need, I mean, one of the reasons want to take another pass out is to try and see it in its entirety, really.

00:44:17.11
alexei sayle
rather than going from chapter to chapter. Sometimes when you you you go from chapter to chapter, you lose the you lose sight of the larger piece, really. It's very intense. I mean, it's very i mean it's my style. It's what I do on Sandwich Bar as well, that it's very boiled down. you know it's you know It's a very rich kind of mix of of jokes and anecdotes and memoir and stuff like that but I mean that's the way I you know I like to work I think more and more um uh so yeah no I yeah I think um' I mean I wouldn't I mean now I mean in a way it's I mean it you know the motivation for it didn't come from me that it was my editor who said you know that the world needs this book

00:45:08.44
alexei sayle
And um so, I mean, it's it's been a more complex proposition because from that point of view, really.

00:45:13.84
Talal K
Thank you.

00:45:17.09
alexei sayle
And also whether they, you know, whether um there's still, you know, when we started it, there was a tremendous desire for left-wing ideas, you know, was that um whether that is still true. It'll be interesting when we're back on the your party and all that stuff will be, I guess, back in...

00:45:37.61
alexei sayle
we're back to all that now as well so we'll see really um yeah uh but yeah yeah no it's i i i mean i'm sort of sometimes resentful that i've i was not but i wasn't forced into that i'd it's again it's a complex proposition when you do something not because

00:46:01.56
alexei sayle
It doesn't come from you, but because somebody and somebody else says, you know, the world needs this to hear from you on this subject, really. So that's a slightly more you know complex motivation, really. So yeah it's made it harder. It's made it made it a lot harder to kind of define what it is. But I think if it works, really, then it is a really unusual piece of work, really.

00:46:31.58
alexei sayle
So, we'll see.

00:46:32.55
Talal K
I'm excited to see for myself oh my god

00:46:34.26
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:46:37.24
alexei sayle
I'll be on the publicity round. I'll be on the one show trying to explain. i don't know who hosts it. To explain Marx's theory to

00:46:49.39
alexei sayle
whoever it is.

00:46:50.84
Talal K
um alright we're all behind you Lex rooting for you oh yeah

00:46:54.14
alexei sayle
Thank you. Buy it, yeah. And that may be when we'll start doing the marks, the dance videos as well again, and but also use it as ah use it as a promotional tool for the book, you know, put a kind of link or whatever for the book at the bottom, you know, to try and make, you rather than just doing it for, um you know, to try and get something out of it ourselves, really.

00:47:15.15
Talal K
I can picture now. Yeah, the video will end with a smash cut to an image of the book.

00:47:21.91
Talal K
Go out and buy Alexei's new book.

00:47:24.19
alexei sayle
kind of thing yeah yeah i don't know yeah alexa my editor as was saying she's just thinking type she's thinking just typographical at the moment really which i kind of go a lot i mean it's one of the areas where although i went to art school for five years like yeah ah it's not it's not an area where i think i have any expertise really i mean one of my no i remember one of my novels

00:47:24.50
Talal K
um I wonder what the cover art's going to be.

00:47:33.45
Talal K
Type.

00:47:40.42
Talal K
It's boring, man. You need a cool photo on there.

00:47:51.76
alexei sayle
overtaken my first novel, we used a photo, I think was it was a Martin Parr photo, of a clown, a pottery clown. and I always think, having on youve the cover of your novel, having a an image to which 10% of the population have a phobia, lapp it's that's a good start, and that's a real marketing coup.

00:47:59.80
Talal K
Yeah, that's overtaking them.

00:48:15.35
Talal K
I think you need some sharp graphic design, like a silhouette of a figure amongst ah an indistinct crowd. And then this figure is like standing out, walking, you know, just like some shapes or something, just something.

00:48:29.02
Talal K
Can't just have text.

00:48:29.30
alexei sayle
I don't know. I don't know.

00:48:29.80
Talal K
It will look like a fucking university textbook if you just have text.

00:48:30.26
alexei sayle
I don't

00:48:33.69
alexei sayle
Maybe. I don't know. I will tend to leave it to them, but we'll see.

00:48:36.55
Talal K
That's lazy. No.

00:48:37.25
alexei sayle
We'll see.

00:48:37.56
Talal K
put Oh, okay. All right. i'll give i'll Give me their email. I'll push back. Look, I had a nice message on our Instagram. Follow Alexis L. Pod on Instagram.

00:48:48.54
Talal K
um Marty messaged us. And he says, saw this and thought of you and Alexi as the first film suggested. It's a list of films. Is Battle for Algiers.

00:49:02.49
Talal K
Maybe you could use some suggestions for the film club. Happy New Year. um And this person has... Pop Smart Media has made a link on Instagram. What if watching movies this spring could help us think more clearly about the world we're living in? um Not as an escape, but as preparation.

00:49:22.01
alexei sayle
Yeah. with a

00:49:24.66
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:49:25.74
Talal K
Films for fighting fascism.

00:49:29.40
Talal K
Okay. 12-week public syllabus.

00:49:30.20
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:49:33.42
Talal K
One film per week. So they've started their own little film club, basically.

00:49:36.63
alexei sayle
Okay, all right.

00:49:36.86
Talal K
But it's films for fighting fascism. Okay.

00:49:42.46
Talal K
As mentioned, there was a Battle of Algiers. Zero Dark Thirty is another one. That's the film about...

00:49:51.77
alexei sayle
Yeah, it's an interesting... Yeah, go on.

00:49:53.98
Talal K
No, you go I haven't seen it. It's about...

00:49:55.29
alexei sayle
No, it's an interesting...

00:49:55.42
Talal K
Yeah, tell us.

00:49:56.21
alexei sayle
I've seen it a number of times. Catherine Bigelow. um

00:49:59.35
Talal K
Oh, yes.

00:50:00.18
alexei sayle
I mean, it's a sort of... It's and it's a pro-torture film, really. It's interesting to see... the The CIA operatives who are torturing, waterboarding people are really annoyed because I think Obama comes in and stops them torturing people and they're sort of... They're quite annoyed, really.

00:50:20.02
alexei sayle
It seems quite a ah real... I don't know how. I think some people have probably... um suspect that there's there's you know it's not a true account really but it's an interesting account of you know i mean just seeing it from the you know it's it's ideology there's no but it has a political ideology and that is entirely pro-american imperialism in a sense but you know why shouldn't you see watch that it's very efficiently done

00:50:49.50
Talal K
Well, so with each film, she lists a skill you can learn from it and a core question to ask. So so Zero Dark Thirty, um the skill is noticing how extreme actions become routine through procedure.

00:50:54.90
alexei sayle
All right, go on.

00:51:03.58
Talal K
and The core question, how does violence start to feel inevitable? um I won't read all the skills and questions, I guess, for all the films, but I'll quickly run through the films.

00:51:08.93
alexei sayle
Hmm.

00:51:13.66
Talal K
There's Wag the Dog. These aren't, yeah.

00:51:15.67
alexei sayle
Yeah, interesting. Yeah, just in Hoffman.

00:51:19.54
Talal K
Detecting spectacle and manufactured consent. you know what are we being encouraged What are we being encouraged not to notice?

00:51:22.08
alexei sayle
Yeah. Hmm.

00:51:25.62
Talal K
Syriana, I haven't seen that. The George Clooney one.

00:51:29.08
alexei sayle
Yeah, it's George Clooney, yeah.

00:51:32.20
Talal K
I remember when it came out and Syria? I was like, what's this? Understanding and personal systems and aligned incentives. The lives of others, the zone of interest.

00:51:43.10
alexei sayle
Yes, I still haven't seen that. I should...

00:51:46.94
Talal K
Oh, okay, which one is that? The Zone of Interest.

00:51:49.20
alexei sayle
That's the one set in the Commandant's house outside Auschwitz.

00:51:54.21
Talal K
Outside a concentration camp.

00:51:56.06
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:51:56.44
Talal K
Yeah, I haven't seen it either.

00:51:56.51
alexei sayle
Of course, Jonathan Glazer made that when he won the, made a marvellous speech about, you know, about the genocide, which was quite, yeah, yeah.

00:51:57.56
Talal K
but

00:52:06.97
Talal K
Everyone was shocked. They thought, look at this, this film about antisemitism and let's give him the award, get him up there. And then he was like, yeah, this is actually about Palestine.

00:52:17.27
Talal K
everyone was like, what?

00:52:17.40
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, made I mean, it made one of the great, you know, I mean, interesting guy, really.

00:52:28.79
alexei sayle
and and i was looking at some... matter um just on YouTube, a video, Radiohead video, a karma police, I think, where they're just to really where he's in the car, i'm a kind of a big old US car, and they're chasing a man down a track, really. It's got no, you know it's got no...

00:52:51.11
alexei sayle
And think it's the lead singer, Johnny Greenwood. Is that the lead singer?

00:52:53.90
Talal K
No, it's the guitarist.

00:52:54.81
alexei sayle
was the other guy.

00:52:55.01
Talal K
Tom York is the singer.

00:52:55.61
alexei sayle
It Tom York. Yeah.

00:52:57.29
Talal K
Hmm.

00:52:57.53
alexei sayle
He's in the front car and he's in the back of the car and singing. And then then you see the car sort of pursuing this man down the dirt road, really. It's a middle-aged man running away from this car. And I noticed that it's an amazing video from the golden age of pop videos.

00:53:08.11
Talal K
Hmm.

00:53:12.19
alexei sayle
I noticed the director was Jonathan Glazer. Um...

00:53:17.03
Talal K
Oh.

00:53:17.99
alexei sayle
Sexy Beast, of course, is a masterpiece. um

00:53:20.73
Talal K
Yes, it is.

00:53:20.89
alexei sayle
He also did a... I can't watch it, really. it's a I mean, it's an extraordinary book called Under the Skin, which I couldn't finish because it is so horrifying.

00:53:32.98
alexei sayle
um And he also made a film of it with...

00:53:33.07
Talal K
Oh, God. Is that...

00:53:36.63
Talal K
Scott?

00:53:36.90
alexei sayle
Semi-improvised with Scarlett Johansson, where she's driving around in a van. and sort luring guys, I mean, in real time, luring guys into this fan. mean, it's taking quite a lot liberties with the book. The book is staggering. Who's the author? If you just look up, who's the author of Wonder the Skinner? Is it Thibaut Fisher?

00:54:06.68
Talal K
m Michael Faber.

00:54:09.47
alexei sayle
Michael Faber, Michel Faber.

00:54:11.03
Talal K
Michelle Faber, sorry.

00:54:12.31
alexei sayle
Michel Faber.

00:54:15.32
alexei sayle
it just... Fucking hell, what a book. I find i find the that film kind of unwatchable in a way.

00:54:23.19
Talal K
Really? I've not seen that.

00:54:23.99
alexei sayle
Yeah. um But, ah you know, i'm mean, a great a great talent. well Oh, yeah, anyway, so Zone of Interest, Jonathan Glazer, yeah.

00:54:32.44
Talal K
Yes, Zone of Interest, maybe that's an interesting one for the film club.

00:54:34.78
alexei sayle
I can't... I don't know if I can watch it, maybe.

00:54:37.02
Talal K
Okay. Selma, Norma Ray, and The Insider, Children of Men, there's finally one I've seen.

00:54:48.09
alexei sayle
Children and Men, yeah, it's really interesting. It's P.G. James novel, isn't it? It's really, i mean, again, a very coherent, um

00:54:57.43
alexei sayle
really well-constructed world, I think, really.

00:55:00.70
Talal K
Really very much, yes.

00:55:02.52
alexei sayle
Interesting cars as well.

00:55:02.58
Talal K
Really well put together.

00:55:03.76
alexei sayle
They use a lot of mad French cars. The Renault Velsatis and the, yeah, yeah.

00:55:09.23
Talal K
I didn't notice that. Wow.

00:55:11.74
alexei sayle
yeah

00:55:12.06
Talal K
ah The skill to learn from children of men is protecting care and solidarity in collapsed systems. And a core question is where does hope live when institutions fail?

00:55:22.88
Talal K
It's more, vi yeah, very post-civilization.

00:55:23.09
alexei sayle
No.

00:55:26.14
alexei sayle
It's a great film.

00:55:27.45
Talal K
ah Shawshank Redemption makes it on the list.

00:55:30.26
alexei sayle
Yeah. Frank Darabont.

00:55:32.09
Talal K
about

00:55:33.33
alexei sayle
Yeah, it's so I mean, it's a movie you can watch endlessly.

00:55:35.93
Talal K
And the last one, yeah, absolutely right. It's got this timeless quality to it and it's just every note of the film just hits so nicely.

00:55:41.94
alexei sayle
Yeah, it wasn't a hit when it came out.

00:55:47.64
Talal K
it's It's a satisfying watch every time, really.

00:55:48.02
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:55:51.16
Talal K
um I used to say this thing

00:55:56.41
Talal K
and I tried to be erudite and philosophical when people would ask me about my opinions on Syria, because being Syrian, when the civil war started in Syria, i would have everyone I knew would ask me my opinion on it, as if I was in automatically informed just because I'm Syrian.

00:56:11.70
alexei sayle
yeah Right.

00:56:12.93
Talal K
And I guess being Syrian, your opinion is is important, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're informed or as informed as you should be.

00:56:24.62
Talal K
but um The thing I always, the metaphor I always used was Shawshank. The two miles of shit you got to crawl through before you get freedom, you know?

00:56:35.42
Talal K
And I would describe the Civil War as the two miles of shit.

00:56:35.99
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:56:38.70
Talal K
And I'd say, you know, revolution is and never... easy it's never simple it's never clean um it's never without death you know and you've got to go through the two miles shit to find freedom but i think they took a wrong turn at albuquerque because it's it's not quite the freedom syria deserves just yet uh and the last film on the list

00:56:45.38
alexei sayle
All right, well, that's true enough.

00:57:02.74
Talal K
is ah A Bug's Life, which is funny. They ended with like a nice soft note, but there is a film about people power and um because it's about the ants coming together sort ah to fight the authorities and how as individuals they're powerless, but when they come together, they can they can defeat any enemy, you know?

00:57:05.43
alexei sayle
ah Really?

00:57:13.43
alexei sayle
it? Okay.

00:57:25.50
Talal K
ah I thought it was really nice list. So that's the list of films. If you guys are at home want to jot that down and give yourself a list of movies to to watch. I'm think I might work my way through them.

00:57:37.46
alexei sayle
Yeah, I was actually, one of the films that we were in, I was talking to Linda about when we were on Aldi's, there's a film, I don't know where we are with Woody Allen films now really, but there's a Woody Allen film called The Sweet and Lowdown.

00:57:37.59
Talal K
um

00:57:51.58
alexei sayle
there's there's There's just been on Sky a terrible version of Amadeus, you know, the story of Amadeus, Mozart.

00:57:58.44
Talal K
Oh, yeah, i saw the ads for that. Amadeus, Amadeus, Amadeus.

00:58:02.27
alexei sayle
Also, somebody spent time in Lent, Mozart and Salieri, and it's awful. It doesn't start out too bad, but it get it's really, really, really bad. But it's about, there's also a Woody Allen film called Sweet and Lowdown,

00:58:17.02
alexei sayle
which is about how Sean Penn is the greatest jazz guitarist in the world, except he's unfortunate enough to live in the same time as Django Reinhardt.

00:58:31.00
alexei sayle
And so he would be...

00:58:32.13
Talal K
Oh.

00:58:32.60
alexei sayle
and So it's the it's that... I mean, i suppose Salieri was a mediocrity, really. So Amadeus is not the Peter Schaefer player, not quite about the same thing. But it's about... How do you live in a world when you're a genius, but there's an even greater a genius?

00:58:47.51
alexei sayle
And I know that I remember Sean Penn can't say Django Reinhart. He passes out if anybody says Django Reinhart.

00:58:53.63
Talal K
Yeah.

00:58:54.23
alexei sayle
He faints. It also stars Samantha Morton, somebody I've worked with, who has a luminous beauty as a deaf mute, really.

00:58:57.88
Talal K
yeah

00:59:07.02
alexei sayle
And, I mean, Sean Penn's character is also a really bad person. is that i mean Woody Allen's films were are interesting to see. I might watch it anyway to see. I mean, Woody Allen's at films for, you know, all what we know about him now were full of the most interesting philosophical ideas, really. um I don't know where to say where we...

00:59:29.56
Talal K
Well, I don't know. It's hard to imagine watching a Woody Allen film without feeling a bit sick, really. ah but But that's just your imagination. I'm sure actually just sitting down and watching it isn't that fucking difficult. And if it's a good film, it's a good film.

00:59:46.07
alexei sayle
Yeah, it's it' about something.

00:59:46.52
Talal K
What can we really doubt?

00:59:47.23
alexei sayle
I mean, so many of it's...

00:59:47.32
Talal K
And it doesn't seem to be like some of his other films. It doesn't seem to be about ah dating and having sex with teenagers and stuff. Or or does that feature in the film?

00:59:55.03
alexei sayle
ah No, it's not... Yeah.

00:59:56.97
Talal K
Yeah.

00:59:57.72
alexei sayle
Not as far as that. Well, and no. I mean, I think the Sean Penn character is a kind of pimp, really.

01:00:00.64
Talal K
Because that would be a bit.

01:00:04.80
Talal K
Oh.

01:00:05.75
alexei sayle
But... Yeah.

01:00:07.90
Talal K
Did you watch Sinners from last year? Okay, good.

01:00:10.01
alexei sayle
Yeah. It's a really, I mean, it's a really, I think it's ah unsuccessful. for I didn't even know that but Michael B. Jordan was playing both those parts. Well, somebody's pointing out, Lisa, I think, it was pointing out that he's an alumnus of The Wire that he plays Wallace, who gets bumped off.

01:00:30.58
alexei sayle
in the first first two seasons of The Wire, the famous line of the other kid goes, where's Wallace, string?

01:00:30.81
Talal K
Right.

01:00:37.56
alexei sayle
Where's Wallace at, man? Where's Wallace?

01:00:40.33
Talal K
Right.

01:00:40.90
alexei sayle
Knowing that he's been bumped off. um ah

01:00:43.59
Talal K
What, you didn't like sinners?

01:00:45.66
alexei sayle
I found Sinners really interesting interesting. I thought you could have done without you could have done without all the vampire shit, really. Because there's much more interesting film about...

01:00:51.86
Talal K
Yes.

01:00:54.87
alexei sayle
black life and black music and stuff like that.

01:00:56.60
Talal K
Yeah.

01:00:57.27
alexei sayle
the The vampire shit just seemed kind of getting in the way, really.

01:01:00.73
Talal K
But why not? you know It is like two different films been meshed together, but like why not?

01:01:02.85
alexei sayle
Yeah, no. Yeah.

01:01:05.16
Talal K
It was fun. And you've got all that stuff and then you've got all this other stuff.

01:01:06.42
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:01:09.17
Talal K
It's it's all there. I didn't feel like it dragged on too much, the vampire stuff, and there was some creative action ideas in there.

01:01:16.89
alexei sayle
That scene with the all the the Irish kind of musicians slash vampires singing around the campfire is an extraordinarily powerful scene. It doesn't really make any sense, but it's a very powerful scene in and of itself.

01:01:33.03
Talal K
I thought it was, I just, well, I was mesmerized by it.

01:01:36.03
alexei sayle
Mm-hmm.

01:01:36.18
Talal K
The one moment of the scene that everyone hops on about was beautiful, but it wasn't like, it wasn't all that. There's a moment where the you see all music throughout all history kind of happening at once, all through this one singer's performance.

01:01:50.71
alexei sayle
Ready?

01:01:52.65
Talal K
And, um,

01:01:53.18
alexei sayle
Right.

01:01:56.28
Talal K
people made a massive meal out of that. I think there were much more important moments in the film than that, like, uh, and performances, but, uh, but it was gorgeous.

01:02:01.64
alexei sayle
Right.

01:02:05.09
Talal K
And I don't know why I thought of the sinners, I guess, in film about musicians, sweet and low down. All right, sweet and low down. Let's hear from the listeners, whether we want to watch that and how do you feel about watching a Woody Allen film part of the film club?

01:02:13.34
alexei sayle
Indeed, this is a... Yeah.

01:02:17.15
Talal K
Do we want to mar the name of the film club with, uh, with these types of people?

01:02:20.82
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:02:23.03
Talal K
Um, We're coming up to the end of the show, Alexi.

01:02:26.52
alexei sayle
Okay.

01:02:27.31
Talal K
Support the show, please. Patreon.com forward slash AlexiSell podcast. Whenever we take a week off, when the rare times that happens, it does pain us. We don't do it on purpose.

01:02:37.35
alexei sayle
No. No.

01:02:38.46
Talal K
um And we appreciate all the support we get. Anything else? anything Well, look, man, we didn't talk about...

01:02:48.63
Talal K
ah While we were away, we didn't talk... Bondi Beach fucking happened. The ICE shooting just the other day, even yesterday, I think, for as of recording.

01:02:56.58
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

01:03:00.70
Talal K
ah And I wanted to talk about the reform candidate for London mayor. We're both Londoners. i cook I'll quickly posit this at you and then tell me what you think. All right. I'm just going to tell you a bit of some of her policies.

01:03:13.91
Talal K
What do you think? Before we go? Well,

01:03:16.22
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:03:19.16
alexei sayle
count oh

01:03:19.28
Talal K
Farage unveils London's mayoral candidate to take out Khan.

01:03:21.98
alexei sayle
yeah

01:03:23.29
Talal K
I don't think, just to start off, do you think I don't think reform ever will stand a chance in London, of all places.

01:03:28.76
alexei sayle
I guess not. I had no idea of the voting demographics. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of Sadiq Khan, but...

01:03:35.35
Talal K
Certainly, but I don't think, and we don't even know if Sadiq will be standing for a third term.

01:03:42.11
alexei sayle
Ah, right.

01:03:42.83
Talal K
But Layla Cunningham is her name. She's very glamorous. like She's like the opposite of Farage, visually, physically speaking. Former public prosecutor, but here's some of her.

01:03:55.91
Talal K
There'll be a new sheriff in town, and I'll be launching an all-out war campaign. on crime, that's the top one. She thinks that it's become a knife capital of the world, London, and she wants to stamp down on that, probably including a lot of stop and searching and discrimination against brown and black young kids.

01:04:15.58
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:21.50
Talal K
And she vows to scrap the U-les. Have we ever voiced your opinion U-les? Lex, do you want to put your...

01:04:28.48
alexei sayle
Do you less?

01:04:29.24
Talal K
You want to your name in the ring here?

01:04:31.76
alexei sayle
No, I have to pay it every time I move my car.

01:04:34.78
Talal K
And how does that make you feel?

01:04:36.75
alexei sayle
Well, you know, yeah. I think they i mean they lied to us about, didn't they, a few years ago, they told us that diesel cars were green and turned out they weren't really. Yeah.

01:04:52.56
alexei sayle
No, I mean, it's, again, like going on river cruises, having a big diesel car. I know few of you, you'll die inside when you hear this, that Lexi, no, not Lexi, had a whacking great car with a diesel engine in it.

01:05:12.92
alexei sayle
As if you weren't disillusioned enough by me going on a river cruise. Yeah. ah ah So, um you know, ah i mean, i of you know I can afford...

01:05:18.82
Talal K
hand opening the show with a fighter jet.

01:05:25.91
alexei sayle
I mean, it's an absurd indulgence having a car in London. I shouldn't have one, really. it's it's the last

01:05:30.79
Talal K
Hmm.

01:05:32.98
alexei sayle
It's the last vestige of me holding on to the nineteen ninety s I think. um

01:05:39.48
Talal K
Yeah. did used to be your job, wasn't it? To review these, um,

01:05:42.30
alexei sayle
Yeah, I was a motion journalist. So, yeah, you know east when I was gigging, I needed to... get to places.

01:05:51.03
Talal K
She wants to reclaim the city against grooming gangs.

01:05:51.10
alexei sayle
um

01:05:56.10
alexei sayle
Really, which there aren't any in London as far as I know.

01:06:00.15
Talal K
um and

01:06:09.11
Talal K
So, yeah, that's that's reforms candidate for London Mayor.

01:06:12.44
alexei sayle
I don't like her.

01:06:12.94
Talal K
I thought that would be a more...

01:06:13.60
alexei sayle
What you tell me, what you told me so far, Dalal, I don't like her.

01:06:20.63
alexei sayle
So, you know.

01:06:22.10
Talal K
Thanks for going along with our thought that wouldll be a more explosive ending.

01:06:23.26
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to, you know, i don't usually like to. That's weird. i was ah I was watching, like, just flipping around. i was watching ah Mickey Flanagan, who is a nice guy, came to see me. Came to actually see me on when I was the show. I think so when I got really nervous and my voice cracked. I got it back, but it was a difficult night.

01:06:45.24
alexei sayle
But I just watched him play in this huge arena. I think it must be Wembley. It looks like 15,000, 20,000 people. And he does some joke. I just came in in the middle of it. And then he says, um maybe I should do that on the Royal Command Variety performance. And then he says, no, I'm not, because I'm not bound and scraped into that big-eared cunt, he says. And the audience kind of cheer, but you can see their...

01:07:08.44
alexei sayle
And then I think channeling me a bit, he says, oh, they do a lot for charity. Yeah, they do a lot for charity because they've got all the fucking money. Again, the audience goes, but they're not completely convinced, I think, a lot of his audience.

01:07:19.98
alexei sayle
Or very unusual for such a mainstream. And then he says, he sort of does a bit where he says sort of into the microphone, you're losing them, Mickey, you're losing them. ah So he just went back to doing whatever he normally does.

01:07:32.77
alexei sayle
um

01:07:33.09
Talal K
That's interesting.

01:07:34.10
alexei sayle
maybe it was really and I don't know when it was from or in just but it was right in the middle list really i mean it wasn't funny you know wasn't constructed as a joke really it did remind me a bit of me but just blistering kind of anti-monarchy to such a huge audience we really weren't expecting it good for you Mickey

01:07:52.76
Talal K
Yeah, that is surprising. And he does have the, I guess, you know, his accent does make you think that a lot of his audience would be, you know, kind of like working class, right wing, white English people, you know, but maybe that's not fair, but I like, I always found him really funny and he never did anything that was racist or stupid kind of.

01:08:06.07
alexei sayle
yeah this looks like couples yeah yeah yeah funny guy no no he's funny coming yeah

01:08:14.71
Talal K
cheap jokes and I would love to ask him how it feels to have like something he came up with being just becoming a common vernacular like going out out that thing that he did you know everyone now fucking says it now and it's even on one of the tube stations you it's it's I don't know which station it is but they have the underground logo and where the name of the station is supposed to be written in the middle of the logo instead of the name of the station like Leicester Square where it says going out out

01:08:26.44
alexei sayle
yeah yeah yeah

01:08:39.29
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:08:43.18
alexei sayle
Yeah. Really? Wow.

01:08:45.40
Talal K
Yeah, in the central London tube station.

01:08:47.77
alexei sayle
What have I given the world?

01:08:48.16
Talal K
Uh-huh.

01:08:48.93
alexei sayle
I've given the world, who's that fat bastard? And the low junk got new motor. That's my contribution to the, I suppose so.

01:08:53.34
Talal K
Hello, John. got new And Dr. Martin's boots. People can't think of those boots without hearing that song in their head.

01:08:59.80
alexei sayle
I suppose so. It's not enough.

01:09:04.85
Talal K
Time for a pot noodle.

01:09:05.46
alexei sayle
All right.

01:09:08.47
Talal K
And the Marxist dances.

01:09:08.68
alexei sayle
Okay. Okay.

01:09:09.67
Talal K
People are all over that shit.

01:09:10.80
alexei sayle
That's true. All right.

01:09:13.05
Talal K
right, love you, Lexi. Love you, listeners.

01:09:14.67
alexei sayle
Bye-bye. Yeah, thank you. See you. We should be restored completely health in next week. But, yeah, I think we covered some fucking...

01:09:23.58
Talal K
We did it. We're back.

01:09:24.73
alexei sayle
Yeah, we covered some ground. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.