>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s, and I used to live

in a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect

on what's happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you to take a moment to

stop and think about where you are, where you're

going, and where your relationship with God fits

into it all. Every week, I meet m a new guest who

tells me about something they experienced which

changed their life forever. By talking about the

things they wish they'd known. We'll explore the

idea that God is in all things. And we'll talk

about the part that faith plays in navigating

life's challenges.

Today, I'm speaking to Lauren, founder of Hidden

Catholic. Lauren is talking about sharing her

faith, especially through her work, which is

taking groups on tours and showing Catholic

history. Lauren is so passionate about what she

does, and in this conversation, she talks about

how sometimes you have to have trust in God in

order to do what brings you joy. So, Lauren, tell

me about yourself.

>> Lauren: Yes. So, I'm American and lived most all my life

pretty much in the US But I have lived parts in

Europe. I was an exchange student in high school,

exchange student at university, where I met my

husband in Germany. He's not German, he's American

too. But we were both studying at the same time.

And with that I got a love of travel and seeing

new places and experiencing new cultures, and just

it opened my eyes. Studied abroad and university

too, and I wanted to do something global. I

thought I was going to either work for the U.N. or

the State Department in the U.S. instead, my life

took a completely different path and married my

then boyfriend, who's now my husband, and kind of

followed him around everywhere with his job. He

was already in Atlanta, so I went to Atlanta, and

then we got engaged while we were in Chicago. And

then after we were married, he got a job offer in

Seattle and I moved to Seattle. and then we were

there for about a decade, for a little over a

decade, had two boys. And it is there that I

became Catholic. I converted in 2015 after my

oldest was already born. So. Yeah, but I had

already been going to church since. Even my

boyfriend before my now husband, he was Catholic.

And so I went to church when I would go visit his

family with him. And so, yeah, I've kind of had

these experiences with it along the way. And then

we were married in a Catholic church.

>> Julia: What made you decide you wanted to be Catholic?

>> Lauren: That's a very interesting question because I think

what actually was a kick for me that kind of like

set it in motion was actually my father in law. We

had been going to mass, we go to mass every week.

Our oldest son was born and he was baptised in the

Catholic Church. On the Sundays we'd partake in

doughnuts and coffee afterwards. And it was a

visit with my in laws that we went, back to South

Carolina to visit them over Thanksgiving. And

actually my husband wasn't even with us. it was my

son and I and I was on a 45 minute drive to pick

up a rental car with my father in law. And he

started asking me kind of my thoughts, like, what

I believed, what I didn't believe. And he just

looked at me and he was like, you're basically

Catholic, you believe everything that you should,

like, what is the hold up? And I was like, well, I

don't like the fact that I can't have communion,

even though I do believe. So again, my pride, like

this was my pride really kind of standing in the

way. I'm like, I believe, but they still won't

give me. And he's like, so then why don't you just

take that step? And I kind of thought about it and

then there was an incident. A couple days later I

get a call from my husband that our dog was

missing and he's in Seattle and it's really dark

and it's snowing actually, and our dog was

missing. And so I'm panicking, he's panicking,

he's trying to find him, he's there all alone. And

at one point there was this moment where I just

got a complete sense of peace after being wound up

not being able to help and worried about him. all

of a sudden this sense of peace came over me and

was like, everything's going to be okay. And 30

seconds later my husband calls and he said, I

found him. When we got back to Seattle, I met with

the RCIA catechist at our parish, had an interview

with him and talked with him and he was like, why

don't you join us in January and then you can

become Catholic in April. He's like, you've

clearly understand so much. And so that's what I

did. And so I think ultimately for me, what got me

over it was just, it was a sense of I was already

feeling at home and I already loved going to the

Catholic Church, but what really Got me there was

just getting past my pride and opening myself up

to, to what Jesus wanted me to do.

>> Julia: I feel quite often like our pride gets in the way

as well.

So what made your like first pilgrimage to Rome so

significant?

>> Lauren: So I love to travel. It's one of those things.

Even my husband and I, we both share that passion.

It was such a different experience. It was

travelling and the fun of travelling and seeing

the new places, but was like this added level of

spirituality to it and it made something that was

fun, complex in a wonderful sense. It just took it

to a whole new level that pilgrimage did. Seeing

some of the eucharistic miracles that you can see

in like Lanciano and even in Assisi and seeing St.

Catherine of Assisi's head, you know, at the

church in Siena, those type of things was just

amazing because you can go as a tourist and go see

them. But it was, something was different about it

and maybe that was, you know, having the Mass

every day because you're on pilgrimage. And it

made me appreciate pilgrimage so much better and

so much differently than just normal travel that

we would take.

>> Julia: So would you say that deepened your love of the

church?

>> Lauren: It did. And it also made me realise like I'd

already known, like the church is 2,000 years old.

But it made me want to learn more about it, it

made me want to dive deeper and understand it.

because there it's so. It's so easy to just go to

church, listen to the scriptures, listen to the

homily and cheque off that box and continue. But

the church is so much more than that. Like it's

the experiences that you have with saints, it's

the in depthness of eucharistic miracles happening

which grounds that foundation of what is taking

place in Mass, of it being the body and blood of

Christ. And you see those eucharistic miracles

that just almost reinforce that a lot of times

some people you have to see to believe. Well,

here's your sight. And so even if you already

believe, then seeing kind of just adds that more

in depthness and that more profound sense of

spirituality to it. And so I think those type of

things kind of help with that.

>> Julia: So when you came back, how did you use that

experience to share about your faith?

>> Lauren: I had already been doing that, but kind of with

friends, at work and stuff. Even when I became

Catholic, I already started talking about being

Catholic and I wasn't shy about it. if anybody

asked, and sometimes even volunteered it, people

would be like, what did you do on the weekend, I'm

like, oh, I went to Mass as part of the list of

things that we did. So I never, like, shied away

from it. and if people asked, I said I was

Catholic and it came down to having conversations.

There's a really good friend of mine that we were

on the same team at work together, and she had a

Christian background, but didn't really

necessarily align with that anymore. So we would

have, like, coffee breaks that would last

sometimes half an hour, 45 minutes and talk

through kind of our beliefs and why we believed.

But it was a open conversation. We would ask

questions, but questions not on trying to poke

holes, but questions on more of curiosity. We

would touch on even subjects of, like abortion and

pro life. And we were on opposite sides of it, but

we had just really good conversations. And it was

never. We always walked away with, like, a hug and

it was never a sense of being angry. And so that

gave me comfort. And also being able to answer

some of her questions also gave me the confidence

too. and so I think that's kind of where a lot of

it started. And then once I became involved in the

parish, I was on the parish council in Seattle and

I would openly talk about it. I'd even write it

for my promotions at work. Because the big thing

sometimes with promotions, it was also, how are

you giving back to the community? Whether that was

within the company or outside of the company. And

being a leader at the church on the parish council

was one of those. So I put that in and I would

talk about it. And so it was never about, like,

oh, you should believe. It was always, well, this

is what I believe and this is what I do, and this

is why it's important to me and have those kind of

conversations so that people got to know who I am

and I could get to know who other people are.

>> Julia: So it's clear that, like, sharing your faith is

really important to you, but how has that directed

your choices that you've made?

>> Lauren: Yeah, I think it's. It made me, with the. Going on

the pilgrimage, I think, leading to where I am

now, that kind of started that trend. and so when

we. We actually travelled here in 2019 as a

family, and as part of that, I was like, well, I'm

going to look up to see what Catholic things that

there are. And coming from America, you're like, I

don't think that there's going to be much like,

Henry viii, all of that, like, this probably not

going to be able to find anything. And I was

surprised at, ah, what I was able to find. And so

we went to Tyburn Convent. Even then, when we went

down to Dover, we stopped off at a tiny little

church in Dover. I think his name was like Saint

Edmunds or Saint Edwards, I can't remember which,

what it was. but it was like this super tiny

church and, and that has been there for over a

thousand years. And so it was finding these little

nuggets along the way, going to Canterbury and

Canterbury Cathedral, but also going to like, St.

Dunstan's which a lot of people tend to miss when

they go to Canterbury. And so finding that it was

just like, opened up my eyes. I loved English

history before and then now seeing it differently,

and not necessarily how you're taught in school

and how you might read in the books that are out

there. And so, that was eye opening. And so it

was, it was those pieces that kind of continued

and so sharing it, that way of finding this and

then talking to people about it, what I was able

to find. And then when we moved here in 2022, it

was like, okay, what more can I find? and that

kind of just continued to keep going and

spiralling.

>> Julia: So how does that, like that history of the

Catholic Church? Because I remember really being

taken back when I was like 16, 17, and somebody

had just gone to Worldview Day in Sydney, and had

come back and was talking to me about how the

people they met when they said they were from

England, people like. But there's no Catholics in

England because of Reformation things. and so

these people, the people they were speaking to,

were really surprised to find out that were

English Catholics. But there's obviously like this

great history in, in the UK of the Catholic

Church. But how does that, like, help you

evangelise or share your faith with others?

>> Lauren: I think it's because it's also almost teaching,

teaching about that history. It's not. Coming to

England and looking at the church and looking at

the history of the church here is very different

than if you go to Rome or you go to Lourdes or

Spain and where it is almost like smack dab in

your face, like everywhere you turn, especially if

you go to Italy, you experience the church, but

here it's so much more subtle. I love going into

the old cathedrals and being like, okay, how,

where can I find the history? A lot of things

happened to lead me to hidden Catholic in the last

several years. but what kind of brought me and

what kind of solidified this is what I want to do

is that fact of people not understanding what all

you can have here and what all you can find. So

it's not just about coming to England to

experience the sights, which is a fun part, but if

you're Catholic, you can come experience those

sites and then see some really rich history that

didn't break, that did continue, whether it was

underground, but it did continue and it is growing

and it is strong now, today. And so let's go find

those places. And that's for me now how I. It's my

way of still showcasing my faith and talking about

it, but I talk about it through the lens of

history and the storeys of the people.

>> Julia: So you've touched on a couple of times about

Hidden Catholic. So tell us more about it.

>> Lauren: Yes. So Hidden Catholic is my tour company. It's

something again through all of these experiences

with the pilgrimages. Coming here in 2019 after

moving is kind of the ultimate piece that hit. So

I had a corporate job in the tech industry, been

there for over a decade, and had started to feel

not very happy with where I was, and with what was

happening. I'd find myself not enjoying going to

work. I have, different necklaces based off of

kind of how I'm feeling. And I wear my Joan of Arc

metal necklace when I feel like I need to be

feisty and like, put my battle armour on. And I

found myself putting on that necklace every single

day. Then in August 2023, my grandmother passed

away and it just completely shattered me. And with

that and with the grief that I was experiencing, I

just remember I kept trying to push through and

push through, go to work, take care of the family.

And I remember one day my husband and I, we were

out just for a walk and he just asked me, he's

like, are you okay? He's like, you just, you seem

depressed. And I was like, I don't think I'm

depressed because I don't feel depressed. I feel

everything. I feel happy when I'm with our family.

I feel anger, I feel sadness, I feel joy, I feel

peace. I feel all of these emotions all at the

same time. And it felt like just exhaustion and

like living on a knife edge and so talked and

everything and, and decided to take some time off

of, of work because that, you know, when all,

everything is feeling like it's spiralling out of

control and you have a family, work is the thing

that you can kind of hit pause on and you can't

stop being a mom, you can't stop being a wife. You

can't stop being a daughter, but you can stop

being an employee for a time. And so took several

months off and got through Christmas, and into the

new year. And I was like, okay, I'm feeling

better. I started to see a therapist to help me

work my way through everything. And I was like,

I'm feeling better, I think I can go back to work.

And I went back to work and within a month those

old feelings just came back. And so it got to a

point where it was like, I can either continue the

fight or I can just say I'm done. And which is

probably one of the hardest decisions ever to

make. because knowing by saying I'm done, there is

a risk, you know, from a family perspective, the

financial security that I was bringing in and

helping with the family and contributing to. And

so it was, it was such a hard decision. I remember

crying, in my husband's arms about it because I

felt, I felt like a failure by giving up and so

took some time. So I left. and around that time,

actually that I left, it was probably a godsend

that my mother in law and our niece were coming

over to visit. And it was our niece, my husband's

goddaughter is, and also our niece. And she had

just turned 16. Earlier in the year she had gone

through confirmation and so it was kind of like a,

confirmation, 16th birth. Bring her over. We

travelled around and I was showing them some of

the places, taking them to St Ethel Dreidez, went

to Westminster Abbey and Tyburn Convent. And my

mother in law just was like, this is what you

should do. She's like, you see, like you. The way

you tell the storeys is so engaging. You can

really tell that you enjoy it and love it. So this

is what you should do. and so it kind of like

stuck in my brain. and so yeah, formed the

company. And then last January, so January 2025 is

when I had my first tour.

>> Julia: Where did you go?

>> Lauren: we did the Saints and my Saints and Martyrs tour.

So we do, Charterhouse, St Etheldreda, St Barts,

around that area of St Paul's and Farringdon.

Because the big question was, is that, was it a

viable plan? Do people want to see Catholic places

in England? Because that's not the first thing you

think of going to Rome. You know what you're going

to get. Like, you, you can't, I don't think, kick

a stone without hitting it. Hitting a church.

That's true. and, and so here it's a different

level. And so if you've been to Rome, if you've

been to these places and you've had that kind of

experience, coming to England's a different

experience. And now a year later, I mean, I love

taking people on tours and them coming out of it

and being like, wow, I had no idea. And that's one

of the best things that I love to hear.

>> Julia: I'm imagining that decision to set this company up

was a big trust in God, that this was like, the

right path.

>> Lauren: Yes.

>> Julia: Has there ever been times where you've, like, is

this the right choice? Is this the right decision

for you and your family as well?

>> Lauren: I have these conversations with my husband a lot

because I constantly second guess. Especially,

early on, kind of that first six months, going

even into last summer, of having these senses of,

like, guilt, having lots of guilt. My husband is

working his butt off to support our family while I

build my dream. And then taking care of the kids

and making sure that they're, you know, living

their lives and able to grow in the way that we

want them to. And we love to travel as a family.

And so it was kind of like, we have to kind of

watch that now. And so it was those type of

things. And so I feel quite a bit of guilt creep

in, quite often. But then my husband, one time, he

was just like, do you, like, don't feel guilty?

Because now, yes, things are different from my

financial standpoint. But, like, you're

contributing to the family now in a different way

and in a way that has made it better for our

family. You are now, picking the boys up from

school, whereas when we first moved here, we got a

nanny because both of us were having meetings

lately. And so now I'm the one picking my kids up

from school. I'm getting dinner on the table.

Which was not always the case when both of us were

working, the number of times we were deliverooing

things because it just made it easy after, you

know, you're in meetings until 6, 6:30, the last

thing you want is to go into the kitchen and cook

something. So now it's like cooking dinner and

helping the kids through homework and kind of

being that support there for them and as a family.

And so just kind of keep reminding myself of that,

along the lines of also, you know, reaching these.

This dream and, and loving every single day I go

to work. It's not work, it's just so much fun.

>> Julia: So how do you see God moving in your story?

>> Lauren: Yeah, it's. It comes in different ways. I think

probably the one in which that is really that

confidence boost feel is we'll be at Mass. And

there are a couple things. One, there's been times

where I pray at mass and I get this like tingling

sensation all over my body and I feel as if like

Mary is there, Jesus is there with their hand on

me. And I find myself also too with. Because of

having the guilt that creeps in quite often will

be at Mass and after going up for, for communion

and, and partaking in the Eucharist, coming back

down and kneeling and oftentimes after, you know,

the initial parts of thanking him and you know,

giving up my graces to be delivered, asking for

forgiveness. It was also a. Am I still doing what

you want me to do? Am I still heading in the right

direction? Is this where you still see me being?

Guide me, show me where I need to go? Am I still

following in those footsteps? Whenever this

happens, within a week or two of doing it, I've

noticed all of a sudden I'll wake up one morning

and there'll be three requests for a tour. And so

then I'm like, okay, thank you. Okay, I'm still

doing, I'm still on the track that you want me to

be on.

>> Julia: And so, yeah, I think we all need that

reassurance. And especially when you've made like

such a big decision to leave your job and start

something new, I think that makes sense that you

need that reassurance from God that you are on the

right path as well.

I was thinking earlier about when you were saying

about sharing your faith with. When you were in,

in the tech world originally and you were always,

when people ask you about your weekend, you'd say

you'd go to Mass. And I have had like the

situation where I've worked in Catholic or

Christian organisations, so I've never been in

that like, more secular way of working. But I have

quite a lot of friends who are, and they always

say to me that they often quite struggle to come

like, have those conversations with people. So do

you have any advice or like, suggestions of how

they can start those conversations of sharing

their faith?

>> Lauren: That's a really good question. I would say start

small and start with those maybe, that maybe don't

share the same beliefs as you, but you feel

comfortable with, and opening up to them first.

And then I think that ends up giving you the

confidence to start doing it more. and again, and

starting small can be just saying, I went to Mass

or I went to Eucharistic. Adoration. And then that

in itself can sometimes open up questions of them

being like, oh, like eucharistic adoration. Like,

nobody else really does that, right? And so. And

that leads to, oh, maybe of what's that? And then

you can talk about it. and so those, even just

some of those simple phrases can open into deeper

conversations. and then once you even say it

enough, and then that in itself can sometimes lead

to a side conversation of like, oh, you keep

mentioning this, tell me about it. And so it can

just be statements. It doesn't have to be anything

crazy. Or if you're. If you like to go to daily

Mass and you're at work and someone's like, oh,

how was your lunch hour? You can be like, well, I

went to daily mass at this church. Let me tell you

about the history of this church. You know, and

it's those side aspects, I think, that kind of.

It's not a talking necessarily about your faith,

but it is talking about the faith as a whole when

you're talking either about history or an aspect,

in which that you're participating in for it. So I

just say maybe start small.

>> Julia: So what do you wish you knew about sharing your

faith?

>> Lauren: I wish I knew not to be scared to share my story

Because everybody has a story And I think if you

find ways of opening up your story then others

share theirs because they're also scared of

sharing their story I've had a bumpy road when it

comes to my relationship with God and Jesus along

the way of my life and things in which that I'm

still to this day trying to reconcile and work

through. But I also realised through my

conversations, everybody else has those moments as

well. So I think it's finding the courage to find

the right moments. It's not like just blurting it

out randomly, but finding the right moments and

the right people to start that conversation with.

And it leads to strong friendships, stronger

relationships. Now, those friendships like that

colleague of mine that I would have these

conversations, we still don't see eye to eye on

things, but I think our friendship is stronger

because of it, because of those conversations that

we had. We were actually just talking recently,

within the last six months, because she's kind of

now going almost through a similar crisis in a

sense of, like, work wise, of like, do I lean in

and continue the fight or do I take a pause? She's

had her own struggles that are very different to

mine but ultimately leading to similar places. And

so, like, we still now are almost. Actually, it

has been 10 years now. Now that I think about it,

it has been 10 years we've been friends and I

think our friendship has lasted because of those

coffee break conversations of talking about how

we're not similar but also at the same time m

finding that common ground in our own experiences.

>> Julia: So what are you most grateful for?

>> Lauren: Life. My family, my friends, those with me on this

journey, my clients that also in a way give me a

sense of going down this path. I try to find

something that I'm grateful for every day. I think

in terms of most grateful would be the life that

Jesus has given me, the life that he's given my

family and the way that he continues to support

us. and then, yeah, I would say my boys, my

husband and my two boys. I don't know where I

would be without them.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to Things I Wish I Knew. I

know this episode is going to to stay with me

because Lauren reminded me that everyone is a bit

scared to share their story. But by opening up

with our own story we can give others confidence

to share theirs. How about you? We'd love to hear

how Lauren's story resonated with you. And why not

also tell us if you're facing an experience you

wish you knew how to look at differently. It might

just be something we can help with. You can find

out more about this and other

themes at thinkingfaith.org. Thank you again for

listening. I hope you'll join me again next time

on Things I Wish I Knew.