Hello and welcome to Revolutionize your love life.

Do you want to know more about love relationships, what makes them work?

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Revolutionize your Love Life is a fortnightly podcast where you will access the knowledge and wisdom of love experts and relationship coaches from across the world to help you find true fulfillment in love.

I am your host, Heather Garbutt.

Welcome.

Hello, I'm here today with Lisa Hawkins again.

She's such a star we've decided to do some more, and this is all about understanding your picker.

But let me introduce Lisa a little bit further.

Lisa is a relationship and self-awareness coach and the founder of Consciously Awake Counseling.

For over 25 years, she's been passionate about the human experience, why we love, how we connect, and what gets in the way.

She works with both men and women to awaken the part of themselves that already knows how to love deeply, freely and consciously.

Through spiritual inquiry, emotional accountability, and her signature pause method.

Lisa helps people question old beliefs, shift their patterns, and create authentic relationships, starting with the one they have with themselves.

Thank you so much, Lisa.

Thank you for having me, Heather.

It's great to be back.

Oh, it's lovely.

So first of all, you better tell us what a picker is.

Picker.

well, to me, a picker is that part of us that chooses, chooses a romantic partner.

Right, and we go out on dates and we feel something with this one particular person.

A man, you know, and all of a sudden we have all these heightened brain chemicals and it's as if they've already been chosen.

Mm.

So that, that, that picker is like a, a chemical response almost.

In my experience with a lot of women it is a chemical response, yes.

And that chemical response is not necessarily a sign.

As a lot of women think it is, that it's meant to be.

No, it's not necessarily a healthy one.

No, not might be familiar.

Hmm.

So that heightened chemistry we get is usually dysfunction attracting similar dysfunction and something that our brain and nervous system recognizes.

That we've experienced before, and it usually isn't until after.

the honeymoon stage is over.

That all of that stuff comes up to the surface.

Yes, absolutely, yeah.

Well, we're in that honeymoon phase, it's just excitement and joy and fixation and passion and all of that.

Mhm.

Mhm.

Which is how Hollywood teaches us to pick our partners.

It's absolutely the craziest way to do it.

I would nigh on say the worst way to do it.

Absolutely.

Mhm.

That's my experience as well.

Yeah.

So, tell me how your, , innate picker, your dodgy picker, let's call it that, has guided you in some of the relationships that have not been good for you.

Oh yeah, , my picker has been an interesting thing to understand.

And so right after, , the abusive marriage that I had, that was physically abusive with an overt.

Abuser, narcissist.

addict.

I was looking for someone like a good man, right?

And someone that was.

The opposite of that.

And it's so interesting though when we watch your mind, how I wasn't really attracted to him in the beginning.

And somehow I talked myself into it.

because of his Worse.

Because of what he was doing at the time.

To win me over And because I had not had an opportunity to really look at myself and how I got into the physically abusive relationship.

I had not completely healed, so.

Subconsciously, I was looking for someone better to make me feel better.

Yeah, yeah, I can understand that.

So on the surface, your picker was saying, oh great, this one's not giving me that chemical kick.

This one looks more staid, there's no sort of high charge about it.

He seems a really reasonable man who's, I can trust his words.

Oh, he looked to have his life altogether.

Tell me more.

Oh, well, I mean, he instantly fell for my 3 year old at the time and .

I didn't know anything about love bombing and all of that.

yeah, it turns out that he was running away from a relationship as well, so we kind of fit together that way.

Mhm, mhm.

So he, he got in under the wire in a way by love bombing you through your daughter.

Mhm.

And not talking sexual, but it sounds like seductive behavior.

it was seductive, but seductive is a spectrum, right?

And so it was seductive in some ways, yes, you know, that I was gonna have a better life and he was treating me better and, you know, all of this.

And I fell for it.

Mhm.

Oh, I fell for it really hard.

I can see, yeah, and, and who wouldn't, you know, after such a stark.

Abusive relationship, that's physically abusive, then actually finding somebody who looked like they wanted to give you everything.

Comfort and security and kindness and good father for your child.

So, what, what, what did you see then?

What, what went wrong?

What did you start to see?

you know, there was times when I had boundaries and I left because he was still having, , What seemed to be unhealthy attachment to the woman that had cheated on him with, with his brother.

With his brother.

And so I was like, that doesn't feel right.

Mm, why would you still have Communications and.

All of this with someone like that and so.

I would leave and then I would get talked back into coming back.

And at some point though, , I guess it's around the 6 month mark, 6 or 7 month mark, , he showed some Anger issues And they were Not abusive towards me, but like breaking things.

And of course I was like, oh, wow.

This is too familiar to me.

It's very threatening.

Yeah, that's the thin end of the wedge.

Yeah, I left, right?

And I had no intention on going back.

And I went out with my friends and had a good time and had someone I met that was interested in me and You know, Heather, the thing that got me was that subconscious belief I was very religious at the time.

That I was giving up on somebody too soon.

And not sticking with it.

And that was the thing with my parents that I, always told us, you have to stick with things once you commit to them.

Wow.

So again, I got talked into coming back, right.

And then there were talks of wedding and, and this and the other, but then as it progressed, he didn't have any interest in planning a wedding.

So I started feeling bad about it and As the relationship evolved, , He started ignoring my daughter.

All of a sudden that shifted.

Yeah, and .

I started feeling like I was being treated as if I was just a thing in, in the relationship.

we were building a house together, so I was putting a lot of effort into that, and he was gaining a lot from my efforts to do that.

but inside, I kept feeling.

And hearing this voice that said, you don't want to marry this man.

Mhm.

Mm.

And If I heard that now, I would have walked off.

But back then I was like, no.

I love him.

I'm gonna stay.

So you're healthy picker, your inner healthy picker was saying run.

But you're a dodgy picker, reinforced by parental influence, we're saying no, you must give him another chance.

Mhm.

Well, I have watched my parents do it repeatedly.

That was a subconscious thing, right?

So there's some sort of pattern for you that this is how a relationship goes.

Subconsciously, yes.

Yeah, yeah, obviously, you wouldn't choose that on purpose, yeah.

And so, , but I did start doing some things that were very healthy for me.

I found an apartment somewhere else and moved into my apartment because I wasn't getting from him what I needed.

So that kind of pushed him to make a decision.

But I didn't realize the decision was gonna be him cheating on me, so.

Yeah, it was bad.

and eventually he did hit me at the end.

He hit me pretty hard.

and so.

So much for being a calm centered.

Put together a man who's, I mean, his mother was a psychologist.

I thought that he had worked on himself.

And so, but it did eventually surface that he had a violent nature.

And I did get out, but my heart was shattered.

I mean, absolutely shattered because I had just come from a very physically abusive marriage to him.

Hm.

And that's when the dam broke.

Like I cried for three months, almost constantly sobbing it all out.

Mm.

And at that point, that's when I made the decision, I'm gonna figure out why I get into unhealthy relationships.

And since then it's been.

An insatiable passion to understand love and partnerships.

beautiful, beautiful.

You chose to grow.

I did.

Mm.

Yeah.

Mhm, so what were you looking for the next time, you know, what do you?

And years later, yeah, I was single for a long time, .

Focused on myself and doing my inner work and I was into spirituality in a big way.

And I was doing all of the things, firewalks, , meditation circles, you know, all of the things, right?

And I thought that that was healing me.

And so I was in a book club at my community church and I met this guy.

Again, I was not really attracted to him in the beginning.

That's a habit of mine, right?

Mhm.

And so, , we were friends for about 9 months before we decided to be romantic, but he was into meditation, he was into all of the things, you know, that I thought.

We're super healthy.

he was fairly good communicator.

At the time, it seemed like he was holding himself accountable for things.

and we did go to therapy.

There was, there was positive aspects to the relationship.

But he was super calm and peaceful and never got upset.

Never got upset.

I can see why that was attractive.

Yeah, and so, but as that evolved, .

You know, like the time that we had a date planned and he was an hour and a half hours late.

Mm, I made an excuse for it.

And that was And then everybody's in then my community said, well, everybody's allowed a mistake.

See, I noticed it was not good, but I was again, I was talked into it.

So I have a pattern of giving people.

More chances than I should, and that's what happened with this one.

And I was, I'm here and there too, sorry to interrupt you, but I'm here and there too, giving more power to decide to other people as well.

Mhm.

Exactly.

Well, after all.

I didn't feel I could choose and trust myself, right?

And So things just evolved and and arguments started and then all of a sudden it Passive aggressiveness, and there it was, right?

So with this one, he was very, very covert and his anger came out in very passive aggressive ways.

And it felt More abusive to me than the overt.

It's more a betrayal of trust, and feels more calculated than explosive.

Mhm.

Well, and you never knew when it was gonna hit the punishment, right?

Mhm.

And so that relationship lasted a few years because we had a daughter together and so I wanted to make it work.

But again, I just, you know, this whole idea, oh, you two are soulmates, you're meant to be together and all of this stuff was going on in my mind.

Mm, mhm.

There, yeah, there is some stuff in spirituality and in spiritual communities that is slightly coercive too.

Mm, you know, you have to work through the hard stuff and you know no relationship's worth it if you don't have to work for it and all of those cliches mhm.

Can't be any good if it's not hard work.

Hm, no, it takes two.

It takes two to work on a relationship.

So I was doing all the inner work, he was not, so that was that.

that it was very enticing to, you know, actually.

We went to a Byron and Katie event in New York in 10 days and did the work together and, you know, I just really thought, OK, we're going to work through this.

Mhm, but the covert abuse just never went away.

Can you think of a couple of examples of that, just so people know what we're talking about?

Mm.

Oh, I can't, I can't involve my children in this, so, , yeah, there was just things that he would do that he knew was gonna hurt me, like tell me he paid the water bill when he didn't, and then we got the water cut off.

And it was a passive-aggressive way of hurting me.

Because he was upset about something and he couldn't communicate it.

And then, and then the flowers showed up after that.

I'm so sorry, you know.

And then That continued to happen.

The pollen, yeah, the flowers afterwards.

Yeah, that's really unpleasant actually.

Mhm, yeah, .

So again, I wanted to stay because I thought that I had committed and I had children involved and, and it was really important.

So I realized that I was carrying the emotional weight of the entire relationship.

Right, so that's another red flag to watch out for.

Mhm.

I was carrying it all.

I was the one doing the work.

I was the one holding myself accountable.

I was doing it all.

Mm, so.

Yeah, the picker, right?

I thought I was picking different.

I thought I had it all worked out.

I was picking a more calm-centered, emotionally regulated man, and it was the opposite.

Yes, he was still in fight, flight or freeze.

It just, it was all under the surface and he was acting it out.

Mhm.

He had never learned to regulate his emotions.

Mhm.

And this is really important stuff, so.

Let let's think how you tune in to your healthy picker.

A healthy picker.

A healthy picker understands, you know, that it takes time to really get to know someone inside and out.

A healthy picker is aware of when their words and actions don't match.

Yeah, yeah.

And I always tell my clients to journal because then you're going to write something down and you can go back a few weeks or months later and look and see where something did happen that you had overlooked.

And now it's surfaced again.

And so it's about keeping track of what your intuition has said.

And the fact that you overlooked it because.

Overall, you were pretty happy with them at the time, right?

Mhm, mhm.

And you really wanted to be in a relationship, so I think that oftentimes it's a subconscious need to be in a relationship.

Yeah, and we're driven not to be alone, it's very hard, yeah, to not choose when it's on offer.

Mm, mm, exactly.

The, the other thing I was noticing in what you were saying so beautifully about the journaling and tracking your intuition there.

But also there's the part of you that is observing, is reflecting.

Is integrating your intuition and is deciding.

And that piece feels very important.

Your your onlooker, your overseer, your carer.

It's keeping an eye on things for you, has your best interests at heart.

It really does, if we learn to listen to it when it's speaking.

Yeah.

Mhm So I would also say meditations, you know, the, what do I feel, what do I need?

Meditation is, is really good for this, really tuning.

and also listening to.

The part of you that is choosing and how old it is.

Mhm.

If it's really, yeah, it's really excited, it's likely to be a little part and you know, you don't want your five year old driving a car, why would you want it driving your life?

Mm.

Exactly, exactly, , and all of that takes awareness, right?

We have to be aware of our parts, yeah, yeah, and the things that you were saying earlier about things being familiar, you know, that, that, , The instinct, somehow, the dodgy picker picks things that are familiar, even if they're not overtly, obviously the same.

Yeah.

So we need to be aware and allow for a bit of discomfort.

Sometimes a lot.

Mm.

Yeah, when we're changing things, yeah, mhm, there's a sense of withdrawal for me after I went through that.

You know, the pull to go back to familiar and the steadiness to say, no, that's not gonna work for us.

It's not healthy, and to stand firm in that because it's what's best.

Yeah.

And notice when we meet a man if we're feeling that heightened sense of Euphoria.

Mm Yeah, that's the alarm bells going off, flashing lights, it's like the ability to be able to catch yourself is really important, and sometimes we're gonna make mistakes before we get to the point where we can catch it and say, oh, no, I'm not gonna do that.

Mm, absolutely.

Mhm.

And I think sometimes, you know, as long as you don't get too involved, those can be learning relationships.

Exactly, that's what they were for me, and some of them were hard lessons.

Yeah, yeah, you don't really want to be spending 20 years learning the lesson, do you?

If, if you could learn it in 3 or 4 weeks, that'd be great.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, and nice, this whole idea that good men are nice.

You know, when in my experience, sometimes the nicest guys end up being quite toxic.

Yeah, I think there's a book called Charming Men Make Dangerous Lovers.

Mhm.

And so like understanding what a good man really is, he's someone that expresses emotions like anger, but just does it in a way that's healthy.

It's just someone that's always nice and never gets upset and Yeah.

Mhm.

The communicator.

A very good communicator has a good green flag.

Yeah, it's really important.

There's a lot to pay attention to when we're adjusting our picker.

It really is, and it is a process.

And I tell people it's a journey that we have to be really patient with.

Cuz our picker was developed usually over years and.

It's not an instant fix usually for a lot of people.

No, no, it's not, because it's an attachment style.

And we'll look for the same, yeah.

And.

Part of that journey is learning to love ourselves more and more so that that kind of thing is not attractive to us anymore.

Yeah.

I'm good enough, I am of value, I am important.

I am lovable.

Mhm.

And I don't need a man.

To show me that I have worth.

I can be single and worthy.

And healthy.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Mhm.

Thank you so much.

Please tell us where people can find you.

Facebook, , Lisa Hawkins dating relationship coach.

I have a website, consciously await counseling.com.

You can find me on most social media outlets.

OK, that's brilliant.

And counseling spelled the American way, not the British way.

The American way, yes.

Thank you so much, Lisa.

You for having me, Heather.

It was a pleasure.

Beautiful stories, really making things clear.

You.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Revolutionize Your Love Life.

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