All major decisions, I pray for it for two nights,

and then however I wake up

that next morning, feel to do I do. Yeah. And

that's my way of thinking, "Okay, God,

you had 48 hours to kind of move my heart." It's

three things I would

recommend to people doing that I wish I would

have done at that time. To look at

the decisions from God's perspective. How could

the kingdom be enhanced by this?

Pray more, and by praying more you get God's will.

Be more proactive in your

faith.

This is the Made to Advance podcast. I'm your

host, Brian Aulick. We're here to

inspire and equip you for your best future.

Well, welcome everybody. It is so good to be with

you today on Made to Advance, and

before we get to our exciting conversation, I

want to let you know that

you can rate and review our show. That helps us

get the word out to more and

more people, and it also helps us bring on more

incredible guests like the one

we have today. So today I have with me Arlen Lanting,

and Arlen has had a long

and successful career in the marketplace,

including serving as the president of

Donley Mirrors, being the co-founder of Gentex

Corporation, and ultimately their

VP of Finance. He's also been heavily involved in

That the World May Know

Ministries and Help Found GTI. Am I right about

that? Help Found GTI, yeah. Which is a

company that facilitates tours of the Holy Land,

but what I most appreciate

about Arlen is his great love for Jesus and how

well he's used his marketplace

success as a platform for advancing the kingdom

of God. And so welcome to the show,

Arlen. Thanks for inviting me. It's good to have

you here. Now, I told you I had a

little factoid. I'm gonna start here, a little

anecdote. You are

actually making history today because you are the

oldest guest we've had on

the Made to Advance podcast. So I thought, you

know, no pressure to bring all that

good senior wisdom, but we have some big

expectations today because

you're representing, I mean, here to be the

oldest guest. It's a big deal. How do

you feel about that? Oh, a little overwhelming,

but I'm looking forward to

it. I really am. I think God wants me here. This

is my thing, as you know, and

you kind of talked me into it, but it's good to

be here, so let's see what happens.

Well, I'm glad I talked you into it. Let's start

by just hearing a little

bit of your story from the early days. Tell me

about your growing up. Okay,

we moved to Holland when I was in the fifth grade.

My parents did not have very

much money. We lived in a mobile home. We came to

Holland and bought Riverside

Motel, which is gone now. My mother ran that, my

dad was a carpenter and did that

work. They wanted us to go in the Christian

school, so they had a little

cigar box that every month they'd put money in,

and somebody from Holland

Christian would come and take that money out of

there for our education at Holland

Christian. So then went to Holland Christian, but

went to church twice a

Sunday, whether we wanted to or not, and at every

meal we read the Bible and

prayed, and they introduced me to Jesus as well

as, you know, Sunny School and the

Christian school. Do you feel like your story is

one where you really, basically

for as long as you remember, you go, "I believed

and trusted and followed Jesus,"

or did you have any particular times in your

journey growing up that they were

key sort of, you know, turning point times, so to

speak? I would say that I originally

knew who Jesus was and that I was a Christian,

but it wasn't till midlife

that I did a couple things differently, which I

wish I would have done earlier.

When I was about 40 years old, I guess it was 40,

I introduced looking at decisions

in the business world in my life from heaven's

perspective, and up to that time

it was my own perspective, you know, was it a

good investment, what's the ROI, and

also prayed a little bit more to see if it was

the will of God, and was more

proactive in my faith. But I knew who Jesus was.

What prompted that change?

I really don't know what prompted that, Brian,

other than seeing that God's

fingerprints were over everything in my life.

Okay. So I always admired these

people that could say on October 9 of some year

they became a Christian, and I

can't do that, but it was more of a gradual thing,

but in mid-age it moved

from my brain maybe more into my heart and soul,

and the two people that

helped that were Ray Vander Laan and Tim Brown.

Okay, gotcha. Two great men here

in West Michigan. That's so cool. Take us through

a little bit of your--you've

had quite a professional journey, so take me

through just a little bit of your

professional embarking through different roles

and opportunities.

Okay. First of all, I went to hope to be a math

teacher, but then God

had other ideas, so I ended up going to the

University of Michigan and MBA.

Thought we'd leave Holland, we were married at

the time, but Donnelly Mears

made me an office of market analyst, so I entered

that company and became

president of that, and then Fred Bauer and I kind

of started on the side,

Gentex Corporation at that time. So I left Donnelly's

and then joined Gentex,

was vice president of finance, and then took them

public in the early 80s, and

that was kind of a whole God story. That's a

separate story, and then it's a

technical company, and I'm not a technology guy,

so I left that and went

to Aspen Enterprises, was vice president of

finance, and they did investments in

manufacturing RV communities in about four or

five states. We became number

two in the nation, and then we were bought out by

Sun Communities. And then

in 1987, I think, we sold that out, and then

since that time, I've

just been working in some of the ministries, two

in Israel and about three

in the United States. Yeah, it's really

remarkable to me talking to you, because

still, you regularly make these huge trips

internationally, and that's

impressive. Let's talk about getting Gentex

started. So Gentex,

for those who are listening right now who are not

from West Michigan, has

turned into being a major, major employer here,

and really a successful company. How

did you and Fred ever have the idea to, "Hey, we

ought to start a little something

here on the side"? Well, my background at Donley

Mears was the automotive

industry, and I knew they were looking for an

inside day/night mirror to

replace the prismatic mirror, and Fred Bauer had

the technology of electrochromics,

so we thought putting those together, we could

supply the automotive industry. But

at the time we went public, we weren't profitable.

Well, we had a good business

plan, and God really blessed that offering. If I

could put that ever in a

case study, like a Harvard Business School case

study, they wouldn't believe it.

Why is that? Because we weren't profitable at the

time. Everybody I

talked to said it's impossible. They laughed me

out of a restaurant in Grand

Rapids. So I went to the penny stock market, and

we had on our board at that

time a gentleman, like a name, George Moon, and

the bank loaned Fred and I

half a million dollars with no recourse. They

didn't even have our parents sign it, and

that half a million got down to $14,280. And we

had a monthly finance board

meeting, and it was while we were going public,

and the representative of the

bank said, "Just don't send in those financials

this month." Had we sent in the

financials, we couldn't have gone public. So to

me, that's another God moment.

So then we did go public, paid the loan off, and

now it's a company of over

6,000 employees. They have very little debt. It's

a Christian environment. They've got a

lot of integrity. So that was really a blessing

moment. But I look back at it,

Brian, and God's fingerprints were over

everything. When the number, you

said, I mean, you still remember that number, was

it 14,000 and what? The

number that you guys got down to? $14,282. Yeah,

I remember that.

It was right. And I looked at Fred, he looked at

me, and we were waiting for the

bank guy, and he said, "Just don't send them in

this month." Now when you get to that

little amount of resource, are you in a place of

feeling fearful at

that point? Oh yeah. Okay. Yes. Fred and I make

presentations in Chicago, New York,

Boston, Minneapolis, Denver, Las Vegas, and LA in

four days. So we made these

presentations, and the people knew we had, I

think, a good product, because I

compared it to an air conditioner, that

eventually it's going to be standard

equipment on cars, and it was. But looking back

at those steps, I'll tell

you, it was either go public, or we'd have to

have some other alternative, and

there probably wouldn't be a Gentex today. That

is so crazy to think that you

guys got to that place. It was that precarious,

now when you look at the

size of the company. When you guys started out,

did you have to, was it a,

did you start out in such a way that it was a

really big risk to start

Gentex when you were just beginning, or did you

do it in such a way that you had

investors and such, where it wasn't a lot of your

own resource on the line, so to

speak? Or what was that startup journey like? The

startup was, we supplied smoke

detectors to the mobile home industry, and we

supplied a door alarm to Amway,

where if you traveled, you put it on your doorknob,

and if somebody would touch

your door, an alarm would go off. So that was a

product that was kind of, until we

got the electrochromatic mirror, developed and

sold to the car industry.

And we just, I had all my money that I had. Every

penny was in that thing. Okay. So it

was, it was an incentive to make it go, you know,

obviously, because, but you know,

when we look back at our marriage, we never just

did things for money. Yeah.

Marcia and I were just always happy, you know, we

both married up. Oh yeah, we did.

Yeah. And we just, we just had a great marriage,

63 years this year. Wow. And, and

we just like each other, we have fun, we separate,

we set up date nights, you know,

you get busy, you get older, and now we're just

blessed by having two

children, six grandchildren, two great-granddaughters

that are gonna be

four, because our great, our granddaughter is

pregnant with identical

twins. Oh wow. So God's good. Was Marcia, when

you're taking these big risks,

and you've got basically all your chips on Gentex,

is she wired to just go,

okay, you know, let's do it, or is she, is she

feeling anxious at home, or how does

that work out for her? I think she was, she was

maybe a little anxious, but

very supporting. She's a better processor than I

am. I'm more of a type A and,

just grab and go something. She's better just

thinking it through, so she was

helpful on some of these decisions that had to be

made. Yeah. She pretty much

let Fred and I go. Well, that feels like a pretty

big team sport kind of a

thing, if you're starting a company and you're

basically leveraging,

leveraging everything you own in order to get it

going. I mean, it feels like you

need your, you need your spouse to be a partner.

Exactly. Yeah. When you think

about, I mean, we've already kind of mentioned

this with Gentex getting

off the ground, and that, and then having that

little amount of money as you're

about to go on the roadshow and pitch the company,

but where are places where

you look back in your professional journey and

you go, "That's just a place

I really feel like God showed up"? Okay, there's,

that was one of them. Yeah. The

thing that changed, Brian, during the, when I was

40, 45, it's three things I

would recommend to people doing that I wish I

would have done at that time.

Number one, to look at the decisions from God's

perspective. Like, how is the, how

could the kingdom be enhanced by this? What would

God say? And the second thing

is to pray more, and by praying more you get God's

will. And the third thing is to

be more proactive in your faith. But at that time,

I was a Christian, I knew God

was involved in things, but I look back now and

His power and what happened was

just something that I was praying about, and He

blessed me with that.

Let's unpack those. So when you say looking at an

opportunity from God's

perspective, do you have an example that comes to

mind of how asking that

question shaped or shifted your perspective on an

opportunity or a deal?

I mean, what's that mean to think, "Okay, what's

God's perspective on that"? Well, if

I can take the Gentex thing, God's perspective

was, if this is successful,

you know, people are going to be blessed in a

Christian company, and that would

have an impact on kingdom work. That happened,

but I wasn't thinking about

praying about that at that time. Right now I'm

looking at investing, taking a

minority share in a company, and I'm looking at

that perspective. And I also

added in my walk with God a 48-hour prayer rule.

All major decisions, I pray

for it for two nights, and then however I wake up

that next morning,

feel to do I do. And that's my way of thinking, "Okay,

God, you had 48 hours

to kind of move my heart." And I can feel when He

moves me. My whole support of

Engedi Church and you, I know God wants me to do

that. We're not even members

here. But that's an example of God moving my

heart, because I saw how He's

blessing you and Christina, and what you're doing

for the people that

are giving their life to Christ. Yeah. Which is,

that's one of the things I

really just so appreciate about you and Marsha,

is you just have such spiritually

sensitive hearts, and you want to listen to God.

And you know, it's not

a really conventional, common thing for people to

give to help encourage

churches that aren't their own church, and it

really says a lot about you guys,

that you say, "Hey, we're gonna listen to the

Holy Spirit, and if He says to do it,

we will." And that's been a, you know, your

encouragement in that way has been a

massive encouragement to Christina and me, and

made a difference in a whole lot

of lives. And I've loved, I've shared your 48-hour

prayer rule many times.

Have you had many times where you've gone into

the 48 hours of prayer, and

you've had God say, you know, you thought one

thing, and then He flipped it

and said, "No, you're not supposed to do that,"

or you are? Have you had many

turnarounds? No, just the opposite. What I've had

is sometimes--the other day I

went back to my office about this investment, and

I was gonna wait two days

to call somebody, and I got back in my office,

and I just sat there, and I could

tell God wanted me to pick up the phone and call.

So if anything, it's moved up

faster. Okay. But I can just feel His--I can feel

His movement. Yeah. And it's

my thinking, "Okay, why wait? Why don't I just do

this?" Yeah. Doesn't it seem like

the more we just--when people are younger,

sometimes they feel

like, "How do I know God's voice? How do I know

it's God, and it's not just my own

thoughts?" and that kind of thing. And I do think,

like any relationship, it feels

like you learn--just like marriage, you learn

better and better how to

communicate, and how to hear what each other are

feeling, and what

the other person needs. I feel like in prayer and

discerning God's voice, it

feels like you get better with that over time. I

mean, to me it

feels like I get more tuned into, "Okay, this is

what it feels like when the Lord's

giving me a prompt to do something." Do you think

that's the case? I do, absolutely.

I can feel it more strongly now, and I think my

relationship with Him now is

closer than it was. And as you get closer to Him,

you love Him more, but you also

can feel His love. Yeah. I can definitely feel

when He's pushing or

being--and part of it too is to be proactive. I

used to not be proactive,

I'd be reactive. If somebody would ask me about

my Christianity, I would tell them.

But there are times I'd get home and think, "Oh,

I should have done this, I

should have--" Now I'm kind of looking for

opportunities. Makes sense. Yeah. But I

can tell when He's moving. Yeah. You said look at

an opportunity from a

Kingdom perspective, you said pray more, and then

there was a third

thing, I forget-- Proactive. Proactive, oh, that's

what it was. Proactive, and they

kind of tie together, if you think about it. Yeah,

totally. I kind of look for

areas to be--to grow in Him, and to other

opportunities that He might want me to

look at. How have you--one of the things that

Christine and I just love about

whenever we talk with you and Marsha, and times I'm

just talking with you

one-on-one, it's so cool to see someone who has

definitely got some life

seasoning and still is so passionate for Jesus.

And how, after so many years of--and

sometimes people feel a little stale in their

spiritual walk, and I'm

sure you've had those times too, but how have you

over the years just maintained

that growing intimacy with Him? I think partly it's

that prayer

rule, but what else do you do to just stay dialed

in spiritually? Just meet

people, be active. Sometime we'll go to a meeting

that we just initially would not

like to go to, and we go to it and we're blessed,

so I'm trying to be proactive

in what God might want me to get into. We get a

lot of requests for funding,

as you can imagine, but so we take advantage of

those, and

when you do that, then God blesses that, and that

gives you an

incentive. And so to me, the thing I've been

praying about, especially this year

since I am of this age, is I want to finish

strong, I don't want to wimp out.

I want to say to my kids or my grandkids, and I

have, that the best thing I can

leave you with is a relationship with Jesus, and

Marsha and I have a special

relationship with our grandkids. They like to

meet with us one-on-one, and

they'll bring up their spiritual walks, so we've

just been blessed by that.

But God has a way, Brian, at least I've

experienced that in the last four or

five years, of being open to new ideas or new

things, and then He blesses that, and

it's almost cumulative, it makes it stronger. I

just passionately want to

finish strong for them. I really do. And we're

getting closer to Heaven.

I think about Heaven every week. I've read the

book, Real Heaven by

Chip Ingram, and I'm not afraid to die, I don't

want to die, but I want

to finish strong for Him. When you and Marsha are

having conversations

with your grandkids, has it always been where you

proactively ask them about

their relationship with Jesus, or has that been

something that has

merged more in later years? That's a great

question. It used to be we'd kind

of have to bring it up, but now they do. Oh, is

that right? My grandson, three weeks

ago, he was on a panel at Hope College, and he

mentioned, "Well, I'm

gonna also tell the fact that God did this in my..."

He brought it up, and I got a

grandson in Colorado that's probably closer, he

and his wife, to Jesus than

anybody I know at that age. So I think it's so

rewarding to have them

bring it up and talk about it. Yeah. When you're

talking about

going to different meetings, and even sometimes

ones that you might not be

inclined to, it feels like--what's really cool is

it, I guess it sounds like

to me, you keep trying to, in some ways, push

yourself into places that

might not be comfortable. And I guess first,

would you say that's true? Do you

feel like you're trying to kind of sort of be a

little uncomfortable? You mean

like today? Yeah, exactly! Yeah. Trust me, for

the listening audience, there was some

strong-arming going on, yes. Well, this is a--great

example. I'm not

comfortable doing this, but I so support what you've

done in your life, and

this was a major push where God wanted me to do

this, but I'm not

comfortable with it. But I know he'd show up in

your prayer, you know, to

start us off really well, Brian. Thank you. That's

good to hear, it felt like a good

one just to invite God to lead this conversation.

I'm still nervous, but that's okay.

Well, you know, the thing is, it seems really

uncommon. It seems like to me,

the drift is, as we get older, the drift is in

the direction of, "Go

with what feels comfortable, what I know best."

The drift is not, "Let me

keep pressing into the uncomfortable." I mean,

would you say that's true for folks?

That's true, exactly. I've seen people do that,

and then they just kind of wind

down, you know, they're not very, you know, they're

not happy. Yeah.

But it's comfortable. Yeah. But I think it's best

to just press the

parameters a little bit, and especially if you

want to finish strong and try

things. But you're right, that's what people have

a tendency to do. They retire,

go to Florida, play golf, and they're just, their

life--I knew a guy

one time, he sold his company, you know, and he

was a really somebody around

town. After he sold his company, nobody already,

you know, cared of what he did,

and he kind of wound down. He didn't stay and say,

"What else should I do,

or what does God want me to do?" So I think that's

very true. The interesting

thing, and Christina and I will probably make

this observation, I would say after

every single conversation we have with you and

Marsha, that is--and I forget if

we already said your age--how old are you now? 84.

84. 84 years young.

Young. And so you're 84. Marsha's much younger.

Yeah, we're not allowed to talk about her age,

are we? Yeah. That's a good husband tip right

there. So what's so cool with the

two of you is, you know, here you are, 84 years

old for you, and it seems--and

when we talk with you guys, you're always just so,

so fun, so sharp, so alive, and

it really strikes me that we all have to make a

choice. Either we can, in some ways,

continue to press into uncomfortable things, like

doing this podcast or

whatever, and that causes this kind of release of

fresh creativity and life

and blessing from God, even. Or we can go to our

comfort, and the nice thing is

we're comfortable; the downside is we kind of

wither a little bit. And so I

guess it's just good, because sometimes that cost

equation isn't

clear on both sides. Yes, you can choose comfort,

but just know it comes with some

withering in most cases. Or you can choose to be

a little uncomfortable, and

with that comes a real sense of aliveness and

vitality, and that's why

for--and I've said this to you on the side

already--but that's why for

Christine and me, you guys are such heroes,

because we look at how you

live and how active you are, and we go, "Gosh,

that's doing it well."

Another factor that's difficult for us, at least

for me, is as I

get older, I can't do some of those things. You

know, my get up and go

has gone up and went, and my energy's not there,

and I like naps, so that's kind of

frustrating for me, but I don't want to give in

to backing away from that and

just kind of withering. That's a good word, "withering,"

because I think

that's what happened. So I want to stay on that

line, but I just can't

do things like I can in the future. I think about

some of my trips I went

around the world, and getting up at 5 a.m. and

midnight and doing some

of the things, I just can't even imagine doing

that. So that's difficult,

especially when I'm used to doing that and

getting things done. I always

kind of list and then check them off. Well, some

of them I got to check off

because I just can't physically do. Two new knees,

a bad back, but I

still want to be strong for him. Yeah, I love

that. Do you feel like your

ability to continue to get, I would say,

comfortable with being uncomfortable, is

that just innately who you are, wiring-wise, that

you've always been that

way, pushing for the next thing, taking risks,

being uncomfortable? I mean, you

know, I'm thinking of the person who goes, "Oh, I'm

just not like that." I mean, how

much is it you go, "Well, I don't know, it's just

how God made me," and how much of it

is, "No, this is a conscious choice, it's not

easy for you either." What do you

think about that? Well, that's a good question.

Let me think back through the

years. I always took the initiative to try things,

but I think as I

got older, I had to put more effort in that, to

try things. It's kind of

easy to think, "Okay, no, let's just not do this,

let's just do this." So I got to

put more effort in it, but I was always one that

kind of liked to take the

initiative. I'm a people person. I always hired

the best people around, and to me,

an organization chart was never vertical, it was

always horizontal,

like a pizza. Like, we each had our slice, "What

can I do to help you?" I just like

working with people. So anytime there was a

people thing, I would

gravitate and try that, but now I got to work on

a little bit more.

Does Marsha always, I mean, is she always just

like, you know, it's Batman and Robin

as far as you guys doing these things? How does

that work, that

marriage dynamic? Because it's not always that

the spouse is necessarily

always like, "Yeah, let's be uncomfortable and

try that." But is it

hard for her too, or maybe it's easier for her to

keep trying new things?

I think it's hard. She's one more to hold back,

but she helps me

sometimes too, because sometimes I have a

tendency to go early, to say, "Have you

thought of that?" "No, I haven't thought of that."

And a lot of times she's

right more than I am, but then we can laugh about

that. We just

enjoy each other. We're great friends, and 63

years of marriage this year.

You know, we used to go on vacation, just the two

of us, and people would say,

"You're just going alone?" "Yeah, we can go anyplace.

We just have a great time."

Yeah. Well, you guys always like that, just

really right from the beginning of

your relationship. It was. Yeah. That's one of

the, I mean, it's not

rocket science, but I always say to couples who

are trying to figure

out, "Is this the one?" or "How do I know he or

she is the one?" And

you just really want somebody who is truly your

buddy, your friend. You just

love to have a good time with hanging out with

them. Exactly.

Of all of the things I could do, and all the

people I know, still my favorite

thing to do is hang out with Christina. Yeah, it's

the best. And the other thing, even me and

married 63 years, I'll go to a meeting with her

and she's on the other side of

the room. You still have that little tickle. Yep,

the flutter. Exactly. And it's still

alive after 63 years. So you guys still do date

nights? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, what

else do you do to just to kind of stay dialed

into each other as a married couple?

Sometimes late afternoon we have margarita and

popcorn. Not every day, but

at four o'clock we just sat down and talk, and "What

did you do today? What did I do?"

But we just connect. We just talk about life. Big

thing is the kids,

the grandkids, how we've been blessed, and our

own kids. And so we just, we're

just together in living life, and we know we're

getting older. Like Marsha said,

she said, "We're not getting older, we've arrived."

That's her quote. That's right.

Yeah, it's a good quote. So now we're old. Yeah.

You guys did something that was really cool to

build

into your grandkids within the last couple years,

and I forget if it was

someone's birthday or not, but it was a trip

around town, and I think maybe you

got a vehicle, and you guys, maybe you could just

say, it's such a great example

of legacy building and just kind of sharing the

story, but maybe you could

share a little bit of that. On our 60th wedding

anniversary, we rented a limo.

Yeah. And we were in around town. We took them to

the five places that we lived,

because, you know, they see we got money now.

They didn't realize where we lived,

so we went to 357 1/2 Maple, an upstairs

apartment. The biggest bath, the

biggest room was a bathroom, and we paid $45 a

month, and it included all the

utilities. And then each house we went to, and

the kids just really enjoyed that,

because the grandkids, you know, never knew that.

And even our kids didn't

remember some of the first places that we lived.

And then we got to the places

on 37th, 39th Street, where Todd and Julie, our

two kids, grew up. So it was

really meaningful. It was funny, the driver on

the limo, he said, afterwards he

dropped us off, and he said, "Guy, every house

you went to got a little bit

bigger." He kind of made that observation. I said,

"That's how God blessed us."

We can look back at our financial situation. It

was all God. That's why it's

so easy to get back to Him. Let's talk about that.

One, I just love

that example of you guys taking--and I'm guessing,

by the way, back to the house

thing before we shift topics. Then when they saw

the house, did you share a

little bit at each house? Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah,

would you just share kind of--what

kinds of things were you sharing at each location?

Just some stories of what

happened, what ages they were, what churches we

went to at that time, and

they had a lot of questions too, which was kind

of neat, because they were

kind of interested. The first place, my desk was

next to the biggest bathtub in

the world. That's where my desk was when I went

to Hope College. The door

out of our bedroom, there was no steps. And then

every morning, we had the

windows open, every morning somebody brought the

papers at 4 a.m.

and woke us up. So one morning I thought, "I'm

just gonna yell at that guy." So I

shot out of bed, got to the window, I didn't have

any breath, I couldn't even

yell at the guy. So just telling stories like

that. So it was kind of a neat

experience. But we circled back into what has

caused that in life, and

that was very meaningful. Yeah. Well, and the way

you guys tell your

own story, you just don't know how to tell your

story without giving

credit to what God's done in your life, so I'm

sure that that whole journey

through, you're just giving a chance, really

giving testimony to

the faithfulness of God. You've got such--with

your resources, you

have such a heart to make the biggest difference

you can for the kingdom.

And I would just be curious to hear first, why is

that such a big deal for

you guys? Where did that come from, that desire

to be so intentional with

your resources? A couple things. Knowing that it

came from God, but right

now I think there's a revival going on in the

world. The Charlie Kirk thing just

put it in flames. We support a pastor in Turkey

that's started, I think, 12 churches

now. Now they're small churches, but about two to

three hundred a year.

Muslims and refugees from Afghanistan are coming

to the Lord. Israel, one for

Israel, are Jews telling Jews about Jesus for the

first time.

Shavette Hakeem, open-heart surgery for Jewish

people, and they're doing it in

Israel, and the kids are coming from Afghanistan

and all kinds of

countries. So the other thing that incites this

is that things are happening right

now. God--the Ohio State football team. I mean, I

went to U of M. I know, who'd

have thought? God works everywhere, as it turns

out. No, but I just see--so that's

inspiring. And also back to tithing. We tithe

pretty much during the

downturns, but at the end of it, our net worth

went up. And it's not that we're so

smart at investing, but--and so right now, rather

than just tithe, it's kind of

switching, like, what do we need for our families?

And we put a cap on what we're

gonna pass, and then we set up some foundations

for the kids, and then the

rest of it, we're just giving back to God,

because that's where it came from.

But it's having some impact. Yeah, that's really,

really cool. That's what I--I

love that idea of, a lot of times people will say,

"How much am I called to

give?" And I've tried to encourage people over

the years, sometimes it's good to

ask, "How much is actually God calling you to

live on?" Yeah, and so it's

like, oh, because sometimes we assume, "Oh, well,

if I tithe, then the rest is mine to

spend." Well, it's all God's, and so let's start

with God, "What are you really

calling me to? What level of lifestyle?" And we

don't want to say

nice things aren't bad, God loves to, you know,

bless, and we get to enjoy nice

things and whatnot, but we've really--we've tried

to ask that perspective, you know,

ask that question of God, "What are you calling

us to actually live on, not just

just give?" So I love that you guys have such a

heart to see your resources make

a difference in that way. When you think of--you

continue to be involved in

different ministries, and we were joking the

other day, because you're still--even

though you call yourself retired from the

business world, you still have your

hands in a few pots here and there with

investments and whatnot, but when you

think of your older self now, and if you were to,

say, look back on your younger

self as a young leader and a business person,

what kind of advice do you think

you would give that young Arlen? Well, I would

give this advice. When you

get to the big decisions, you know, to--again,

that heavenly perspective, you

know, is there any kingdom work that could be

potentially involved with it?

Take a look at it, including God's perception of

what's going on, and how

that might affect your life. And the second thing

would be just more prayer,

pray about it, because the more you pray, at

least for me, the closer I get to Him

and the more I know what His will is. And I think

in that--and also

involving Christian people and working together.

But I guess the overall

thing, Brian, would be those things, but also

knowing that God gave us a

helper in the Holy Spirit, you know, to get

through those things as well.

But it's exciting, you know, if God--I have found

out in the business

perception through the years, if you're a

Christian, it's always been a positive

thing. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Even calling on

the big companies, you know, we go out

to lunch or so and pray for something, and then

we talk about our faith.

We have, with GTI now, we do millions of dollars

in Israel and Turkey. We don't

have one legal document, it's just a handshake,

because we're

Christians, and we just respect each other. So

that would be an

ingredient, I would say, for all people to look

at. Yeah, that's really cool. I was

talking with somebody the other day who was part

of a branch of the

military and special forces, and he was saying

that when it comes to

recruiting, that they really appreciate folks

that come from a faith background,

a Christian faith background, because they tend

to come in with integrity and a

certain sense of conviction and work ethic and

whatnot that's really good for

being involved with some very unique serving

opportunities. So it sounds like

you see that in the business world as well. Yeah.

When you sit there

right now and you're thinking about, "Man, these

are my

dreams and hopes at this stage of life," what do

you really go--I mean,

you still are talking about investing in

companies and whatnot, so you still are

doing some things. So whether it be on the

business side or

nonprofit or not related organizations at all,

what do you go, "These are the

things I'm really trying to do at this point"? I

just like business. I like the

marketing and finance side, and especially if you

can relate it to

something that is Kingdom-related. But I flunked

retirement twice, so I just

got to be active, and I like people, I like

working with people, I just

can't see myself just not doing that. And the

difference now is if it's in the

business area, like a company I'm thinking of

investing in, I'm investing

in the guy because he's a Christian, he's about

half my age, to exactly what

you're talking about. And I know where his heart

is, for the Lord, and I know the

market's pretty good, so that's kind of a fun

thing to do. I don't want an

eight-to-five job, but I like to be involved in

things and helping other

people. And where one-on-one is three, you get

the thing going, the

synergy going. When you're processing, when

somebody

gets to a certain level of success and you're

dealing with

some questions and opportunities both that not

everybody has, is it hard

to talk with other people and/or find other

people who understand the kinds of

questions and opportunities that you wrestle with

to be able to compare notes

and get some Christian input? And I guess where I'm

coming from

on this question is, it's funny because one of

the areas that Jesus talks

the most about, let's say, deals with finances.

And yet what's the one subject

most of us don't talk with anybody about? Finances.

And it's an odd thing, you know,

and I get why we don't, because there's a lot of

sensitivities there, so you can't

just sit there and pull up a chair with anybody

and say, "Whatever."

But yeah, when it comes to discerning different

things, I mean, what made

me think of this was just you talking about

involving Christian community. Do

you end up inviting people to kind of process

with you different things, or is

that--is it just like, no, that's too hard to

have conversations about those sorts of topics?

Well, a couple of my friends I can do it with.

They've also got their

financial resources, and they're Christians, so

that helps. But I

think a thing that also helps in raising money

for something is, you know,

other Christians that have done the same thing. I

don't get involved in the

complex things. I'm more--if the person's

involved in it, I get more excited about

it. But for processing and data, you know, I try

to read and use all the data

that's available, but sometimes it gets down to

just the gut feel, or that

one feels good or that one doesn't. Yeah, that

makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

I know. That's good. On the friendship side of

things, do you and Marcia--I

mean, as so much--all the research that talks

about, actually, health relative to

as we get older, talks about the idea that

relationships are such a big deal

for us staying, like, physically healthy, not

just--and our level of

happiness, it's not tied to just sometimes people

think, "Oh, we just need

to make sure we have plenty of money," and so

much is tied to relationships. I think

when we're younger, it's easy to be, you know,

really driven on, "I've got to

raise my kids," and if you're career-oriented,

you're building

your business, and that whole idea of cultivating

relationships that are

outside of even work or outside of even your

family, but just going out and

having fun, you know, playing golf or playing

pickleball. And speaking of

pickleball, you are the source of my favorite

pickleball story of all time.

You don't probably remember this, but you were

once--we were talking about pickleball,

and you said, "I was about to take a lesson when

I was in Florida," and

you're a former tennis player, a really good

former tennis player.

Right.

And you said, "So I went to take this," you know

where I'm going with this story,

this pickleball lesson?

I don't want to talk about this story, but I know

where you're going with it.

And the way I recall it, at least, this is the

way I tell it, at least, so don't

tell me if I'm wrong, is that you saw a little

old lady who was going to be at

that same lesson, and you thought, "Boy, I'm

going to own this court," basically.

Yeah.

And then she showed you who was boss, is the way

I remember the story.

Yeah, she cleaned my clock.

[laughter]

And she was older than I, at that time, about 20

years older.

And she didn't even--she wasn't even working up a

sweat.

You know, I'm moving all over the court.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, tennis isn't like pickleball, which I

thought I could get this

throw, and then that kitchen.

I lost half my points getting in the kitchen.

Oh, yeah.

Because I'd serve and volley, but that was a very

humiliating experience.

Yeah.

And she just sat there and smiled, kept me

running over

there, and then she'd do this.

And it was fun.

Well, when we were last in Florida, we've never

done this before, we went

to a public pickleball park, and you know, it's

the middle--it's not a key

vacation time, time of year we were down there,

so it wasn't like all these

vacationers were there, it was all locals.

And it was the middle of the business day on a

business--you know,

like a Tuesday or something.

So as you might guess, it's almost entirely

retirees

that are playing pickleball.

And here we roll in, we've got Christina and me,

and then our kids, and one of

our in-laws, and these older people are all on

the court, and they see us

playing, and then one of the older guys walks

over and says, "You want to

jump in, or you guys want to--" it was something,

whatever, and we said, "Sure."

So all of a sudden, we got a good old heaping of

humility pie in that moment.

Yeah, true, true.

Oh, yeah.

And he was very gracious, but how it looks like a

guy barely moves and still

absolutely just destroys us was definitely

something I won't soon forget.

When it comes to--this is the last question I

want to ask of you, which deals

with just kind of your love for the Word of God.

I think that that's something that really, really

shines from you.

You're a Bible person.

What's your practice look like to get into God's

Word?

How does that play out in your life?

I do the devotions in the morning.

I don't start with them.

I try it both ways, but I get all my earthly

stuff out of the way.

Then I go to my office and shut the door, and I

got about four or five

different devotionals, and then I got the Living

Application Bible.

The notes are just tremendous.

So I got kind of a routine, and then Saturday

morning is my special devotion

day; there's nobody in my office building.

So I stop at Bowerman's and get a blueberry

cinnamon roll with a blueberry

donut, so I have that, and then the devotions

Saturday morning are longer.

They're maybe 40 minutes.

And then at night, I just pray to God every night,

and I got a log Monday,

Wednesday, and Friday, Tuesday, Thursday, and

Saturday, and then I leave Sunday

open because God might want me to pray about

something that's not on my list.

So the log is what you're going to be praying for

on each of those days.

Exactly.

Okay.

And has that routine that you just described, has

that been true for a lot

of your life, or is that something—

Just the last two years.

Just the last two years.

Okay.

Also, prayer got so redundant, and I didn't know

if I was really

properly being holy before God.

I mean, this is the awesome God that just made

that moon and everything, and He

still is seeking a relationship with me.

It's mind-boggling.

And He's proactive, He's waiting for us.

So that helped my prayer life, and I still think

there's room

for improvement in my prayer life.

Yeah.

Does it—are we ever going to feel like we

arrive?

I don't know.

And partly, I don't want to, because I think part

of the nature of a growing

relationship is that there's always more.

There's always more to discover of God.

Yeah, and to pray for the peaks and the valleys.

You know, and that's hard to do when you're in

the valleys.

Oh, for sure.

But He's with you, and He gives us a helper, the

Holy Spirit in our soul, so that's kind of cool.

When you were full throttle with business stuff,

was it hard to make time to get into

the Bible, or were you disciplined back then in

the same way?

It was hard to get in.

Okay.

And then I'd have the Calvinist guilt.

That helps a little bit, then you get spurred up

a little bit.

But now I need it.

Yeah.

I need the Bible every day.

Just even a word or something, or somebody will

pass something, you know,

and I got to look it up.

So now back to the question of if you would have

done anything differently, do you think

you needed it back then, and you just didn't

realize you needed it at the time?

Correct.

Yeah.

Exactly.

I just, I needed it, but I didn't read it like I

am now.

Yeah.

Well, I ask that because it's funny, when I

started developing a really good Bible

reading habit, I think that for a while it was a

real decision, and then you get so used

to being in God's Word in that way, that now--and

I know many people that would say

this, that they would say, "Once you're really

used to hearing from God through His

Word every day, it feels weird to try to do your

day without that as a part of your

practice."

And I definitely feel that now.

I feel off if I haven't spent some time in God's

Word.

Now, sometimes I'll have to adjust for timing,

and if I have to catch a super early

flight, then I might have to make some

accommodations or whatever.

But now I just would feel disoriented if I didn't

get rooted in His Word first.

And so I think that's the--you know, when it

comes to that whole, like, looking

backwards thing, it's a good perspective thing,

because you don't want it to be--and

I get it's harder, especially if you've got kids

at home, and you've got your busy

life with a job and other things.

It's easy to backburner some things, and then you

go, "Ugh," you know?

Do you stay in the Old Testament and the New

Testament, or do you combine it?

What--

I'm a one chapter of the Old Testament, one

chapter of the New Testament every day.

That gets you through the Old Testament every two

years, and the New Testament

every one year.

I think it's the old Robert, I wanna say, McChaney

Bible reading plan, and somebody

listening right now probably is like, "You got

that name wrong."

But it's a very famous Bible plan that always

just does two in the old, one in the

new.

I used to do the Bible in a year, and I like that

idea of reading the Bible in a

year, but it was so much content that I felt like

by the time I was through all the

content, I really was not leaving enough time to

just be still with the Holy Spirit

and say, "What do you want to say to me through

this?"

And I know that's...

We all have our individual wirings.

I feel like reading the Bible is a lot like

working out.

The best plan is the one you're gonna do.

Exactly.

[laughter]

You just like to write.

The one that you like.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, if somebody sees my workout plan and says,

"I could never do that," that's

fine.

If you're gonna take a walk for 10 minutes a day,

do that if you'll do it.

Don't feel like you need to be running X number

of miles or whatever.

So similarly with the Bible, though, that's where

I said I can do a chapter of each

testament each day, and I spend some time journaling

in prayer.

Similar to you, I have things I pray about on

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,

Friday.

Okay.

Saturday, I leave open.

That's my just kind of reflect and...

And of course, on any other days, you might pray

if God brings something to mind.

But on Monday through Friday, specific things.

Saturday, I leave open.

And then Sunday, as you might guess, I'm getting

up bright and early and really

praying into the message, praying for the church

and all that.

So that's kind of my rhythm.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for hanging out with me

for this podcast.

Was it as hard as you imagined?

Yes.

[laughter]

The lights and everything.

Yeah.

No, I just enjoyed talking with you.

Yeah.

And even when the basic thing we're talking about,

like you said in your

prayers, what God has done in our lives, what's

not to like about that?

Yeah.

I just can't do it as best as I did in earlier

years, but my heart's still

strong for Him, and I just want to finish strong.

So thanks for inviting me.

You still are such a great communicator right now,

so I can't imagine what you

would have been like in the so-called earlier

years, because you're a fantastic

communicator, and I think it's really good, Arlen,

and this is partially why I

just had such a passion to have you on, is I

think it's really good for us to see

folks who are further along in their journey

following Jesus passionately,

continuing to take risks, continuing to live by

faith, continuing

to listen to the Holy Spirit.

And I don't know if many of us have examples like

you and Marsha in our

lives that we get to see that up close and

personal.

I think, in fact, I think many don't.

And so part of my heart and wanting for folks to

be able to hear a little bit of

your journey was to go, I want those who are

listening to have a similar reaction

to Christina and me, which is like the reaction

of saying, "That's what I

want to be like when I grow up."

And so I hope that in that regard, for all those

who are listening, it's been

encouraging to them, and I'm grateful for you,

and I'm grateful for Marsha, and

thanks for being willing to be uncomfortable and

step into a podcast.

Okay.

Well, thanks for inviting me.

Thanks, Brian.

Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation.

One of the principles that I really appreciate in

life is begin with the end

in mind and have that picture of where you want

to go.

Part of the reason why I really appreciate my

friendship with Arlen is because I see

him down the road from where I want to be, and I

go, "Man, that's the end I want to

head towards."

I know God's writing my own story in my unique

way, but there's so many

transferables when I see Arlen just busy, active,

continuing to live by faith,

listening to the Holy Spirit, taking risks,

having a heart for God's kingdom.

And I love all of it.

And I say, "Jesus, would you please let that all

be the case for me and for

Christina as well?"

And I pray that as you're listening today, that

you're encouraged and similarly are

challenged and encouraged.

And maybe even some of the things that Arlen is

living now, you can live in and

lean into earlier in your life.

So you don't need to say, "Hey, it wasn't until a

so-and-so age."

But you heard this podcast today and you go, "It's

time to make some changes even

right now."

If you have enjoyed this conversation, please

rate and review Made to Advance.

That's a massive help and encouragement to us.

This has been a production of Engedi Church, and

we have more great

conversations on the way.

And so, until next time, know God made you to

advance.

♪ [music] ♪