00:00:00.25
Talal K
Oh,

00:00:01.66
alexei sayle
and Hello everybody and welcome to episode 112 of the Alexis Held podcast and I have first of all a vital, vital piece of housekeeping and a mere copper.

00:00:12.14
alexei sayle
Of course I said episode 111 and eleven that was the name of the single engine fighter which lost out to the BF 109 in the

00:00:21.02
Talal K
oh we've had so many complaints about this. Oh, no.

00:00:25.66
alexei sayle
the nineteen thirty five competition for the luftwaffer of course I was right, that h the Heinkel 111 was a bomber. And thee um the single-engine fighter, which lost out to the BF 109, was in fact the Heinkel 112, which is this episode.

00:00:45.78
alexei sayle
But I can only apologise to ah the one lunatic who really is interested in this, apart from me.

00:00:48.73
Talal K
Yeah.

00:00:54.86
alexei sayle
So hello, Robin Ince!

00:00:56.60
robin
I presume that's the one person who listens, not because of your acting or comedy career, but because you were the Daily Telegraph motoring correspondent.

00:01:04.34
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:01:04.74
robin
And goes, well, that's why I listen to Alexei.

00:01:04.97
Talal K
Maybe.

00:01:06.36
robin
And it's these kind of engineering details, which is why he lost that job eventually.

00:01:11.61
alexei sayle
ah

00:01:14.05
alexei sayle
Yes, exactly. there' ah it's ah It's a broad spread of, you know, I don't think anybody else has quite ever got my demographic, which is you know, Marxists and angry left wingers and um people interested in tanks and ammunition.

00:01:28.25
Talal K
we often get We often get accused of having not done our research on the topics we discussed, but who would have thought it would have your knowledge of military machinery that actually got us caught out?

00:01:41.75
alexei sayle
Yeah, finally did for us.

00:01:44.73
robin
yeah

00:01:46.65
alexei sayle
Anyway, as I can only apologise to everybody for that terrible, terrible mistake.

00:01:55.03
Talal K
we forgive you, Alexei.

00:01:55.16
alexei sayle
Hi, and...

00:01:55.32
robin
but I suppose it makes you feel the benefit of how many mistakes you've got away with over 110

00:02:02.10
alexei sayle
Yeah, yes, that's true. Yeah, um but, you know, it's always...

00:02:07.94
Talal K
Fuck.

00:02:10.65
alexei sayle
you know, you always, it's always a sense, isn't it, that eventually you're going to get caught out. You know, there is a...

00:02:15.93
Talal K
Well, there isn't an off-com for podcasting. and And it would be a good and a bad thing if that was the case. Because podcasting is such a liberal like free, liberated medium.

00:02:24.89
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:02:26.30
Talal K
that people It's such a beautiful thing that people can do whatever they want. But it's also such a horrifying thing that people can do whatever they want with it. And maybe some sort of regulation service...

00:02:39.97
Talal K
we'd We'd get fucked in it as much as all the you know the Trumpist right-wing Nazi people would.

00:02:44.73
robin
Oh, I don't think they'd get fucked in it at all.

00:02:45.02
alexei sayle
but Yeah.

00:02:46.90
robin
I think we've watched that. there's There's two very different sets of rules in terms of um understanding how turning the wheel of a car to get out of ah a situation

00:02:59.64
alexei sayle
yeah

00:03:00.11
robin
can be understood. And and it's like, you know, so I think you would be destroyed almost instantaneously. Mark Steele would have to renege on his Trotskyist beliefs and and swear allegiance to, you know, some some ah right-wing despot.

00:03:17.14
robin
um Yeah, there would be there would be nothing left

00:03:18.97
alexei sayle
yeah Yeah, i we've seen indeed we've seen how that works in the, you know, where the Ofcom allows the Jewish Chronicle to print lies constantly and is never, you know, is never criticised really, you mildly criticised.

00:03:19.99
Talal K
Shit.

00:03:23.61
Talal K
Puffcom, I think it'd be called.

00:03:35.83
robin
I did find it amazing when I've forgotten his name now, and I think I do that deliberately, the journalist in the the Jewish Chronicle loop who was saying what a great person Nigel Farage was and how he...

00:03:47.61
alexei sayle
Probably Lee Harpin.

00:03:49.46
robin
and Oh, man, it was just...

00:03:50.78
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:03:51.46
robin
It's that bit of going, how can you not see and why do you refuse to see that ah these are the very people that in the 1930s would have not been on the right side on Cable Street

00:04:01.91
alexei sayle
yeah

00:04:06.14
alexei sayle
Yeah. yeah Yeah. Absolutely. Anyway... anyway of

00:04:14.07
Talal K
Have we even um introduced him yet?

00:04:15.38
alexei sayle
Yeah, this is my guest is today is a comedian and broadcaster, um Robin Ince, the man who Linda, my wife, angrily denounces as the terrible individual who lured me back into the horrific world of stand-up, really.

00:04:17.72
Talal K
so

00:04:33.53
robin
You know, but to be denounced by Linda feels like to be denounced by, you know, someone who's got a had at least a great big statue in the middle of Leningrad.

00:04:33.78
alexei sayle
So maybe... ah

00:04:41.05
robin
You know, that that's kind of to be denounced by her, I think, may well be the the only eulogy that I get.

00:04:47.29
alexei sayle
yes probably but she thought we were free and clear of this kind of fucking fucking uh you know piero nonsense i was a serious writer and uh and then you dragged me back in with your and sort of it was like um it was a gradual thing was it first of all you dragged me back in with your chaotic book readings and i thought well i can do this because

00:05:12.18
robin
ah Yeah, that was that was a classic line-up because that had the epidemiologist Ben Goldacre on a bluegrass band and someone who'd written a book about the ex-rental market VHSs.

00:05:18.81
alexei sayle
Oh, yeah.

00:05:24.79
robin
And you you slid in to that very, very easily, I think.

00:05:24.90
alexei sayle
Right.

00:05:29.43
robin
And then the next one was we were doing a benefit for um ah a library that the council were trying to close um in in a school in a school gym.

00:05:29.66
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:05:37.95
alexei sayle
That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:05:40.10
robin
and it was a library which Mark Twain had visited and it had this very kind of, you know, rich history to it. And in fact, what the council did, I think, is one day they realised that everyone was demonstrating for keeping the library open, which meant that no one was guarding the library.

00:05:53.66
robin
And that's when they snuck in. um

00:05:56.18
Talal K
Oh, shit.

00:05:56.50
robin
but ah I do.

00:05:57.12
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:05:57.74
robin
I used to talk a lot about because it was that that evening. There was that beautiful moment where ah you had because I think the first two gigs we did, i always say you were like doing ah a conversation at a book festival.

00:06:11.54
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:06:12.02
robin
you know, the the different stories of that. And then it was right at the end that a bloke shouted out at you and you leapt up in the air and just started going, that's right, that's right, that's right.

00:06:21.14
alexei sayle
with them

00:06:21.35
robin
Don't look into Lexi's sale. And that's when I looked at Linda and the blood drained from my face.

00:06:26.87
alexei sayle
She thought, yes.

00:06:28.21
robin
And...

00:06:28.41
Talal K
see

00:06:29.14
robin
and

00:06:30.56
alexei sayle
Oh, God, he's back.

00:06:32.18
robin
Yeah. Well, as I've as i've often said, ah you know, ah but of course, Alexi Sale always says that Stuart Lee was the one who revived his career because Stuart Lee is far better known and Alexi Sale is a very shallow Marxist.

00:06:33.00
alexei sayle
Coco the Clown.

00:06:43.77
alexei sayle
Yeah. Very, yeah.

00:06:46.64
Talal K
God, do you know him so well?

00:06:51.38
robin
But you enjoyed it when you came back, didn't you?

00:06:51.48
alexei sayle
i Well, it's interesting. When... um particularly when I did, was it, Nine Carols for that Christmas thing.

00:07:00.70
robin
Yeah.

00:07:02.29
alexei sayle
And I had with me my friend, Oscar Zarate, who's very, um I think partly because he's, I think, because he's ah he's very emotionally sensitive, Oscar, Argentinian, but also full-blood Guarani Indian.

00:07:17.94
alexei sayle
And he said, when we were backstage, he said, you were you were running up and down the stairs. You were so happy. you were so And it was it was that I realised being backstage at that show, being amongst comedians, are fellow like you know I felt like I was where I should be, really. The the joy of being amongst other comics was something that I hadn't realised.

00:07:46.07
alexei sayle
You know, being in a green room at Cheltenham with Julian Barnes and, um you know, Ngoni Chigeti or whatever, you know, it's all well and good, but they're not they're not like swapping the one-liners, are they really, you know?

00:07:54.28
Talal K
Yeah.

00:07:58.30
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:07:58.31
robin
quick, everyone hide, here comes Rosie Boycott. But yeah, and and I do think that also because of the way that we've always put together those shows, they are people who are their love of comedy as opposed to their need for show business.

00:08:13.56
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:08:14.17
robin
it is is is the main thing. You know, i mean, yeah you've been been backstage there as well, you know, this this sort or that last year, you know, and ah and I think that thing of just having everyone where they really care and and it is, and I should say for the, I mean, I suppose most people listening probably know Oscar Zerati's work, but I mean...

00:08:22.81
Talal K
yeah

00:08:32.37
robin
He's not only, obviously, Geoffrey the Tube Train and the and the and the Fat Comedian, but his work, like his, his you know, Dr. Faustus and and also Small Killing with with Alan Moore as well.

00:08:43.70
alexei sayle
small island, small country, yeah.

00:08:46.55
robin
um he's He's an artist that I absolutely...

00:08:46.87
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:08:49.23
robin
I felt quite in awe when he was there. And I think and that's another thing, which is I would imagine, you know, backstage at Michael McIntyre's Comedy Roadshow, most people go,

00:08:52.34
alexei sayle
All right.

00:08:59.65
robin
you won't believe that oscar's are artists here but you know backstage there like oh my god i've read all of his books

00:09:01.50
alexei sayle
ah

00:09:06.97
alexei sayle
Yeah, currently in Argentina.

00:09:07.90
Talal K
It was an interesting atmosphere backstage at Nine Carols.

00:09:10.61
alexei sayle
What?

00:09:13.01
Talal K
Yeah, because I did it this last one. it was not just It's you're not your not your typical comedy, Green Room. It's lots of intellectuals and writers and artists and lecturers. And I think I followed someone who did a short lecture on Bones,

00:09:25.91
Talal K
and And I've never experienced that before, but somehow I think the comedians did did kind of gravitate towards each other somewhat um in the green room, but it was such a fascinating, brilliant night.

00:09:26.05
robin
yeah

00:09:39.24
Talal K
Did you come up with Nine Carols? Was that your invention?

00:09:41.94
robin
Yeah, it was but i was on a um I was on some late night debate show or something on ITV and ah with Vanessa Feltz and and other members of the contemporary Bloomsbury set. And ah the um they it was about ah why are they trying to ban Christmas, which is not what I was told the debate was going to be.

00:10:03.33
Talal K
Mm-hmm.

00:10:04.66
robin
And I got so, and Stephen Green, who was a very unpleasant man from an organisation called Christian Voice, who did a lot of the work to um ah try and get Jerry Springer, the opera band, and would have greatly helped the number of death threats that Stuart Lee got and all of that kind of thing, was on it.

00:10:20.79
robin
And of course, he wasn't really a representative of Christians at all either. He was someone who was an agitator. And um and I got so frustrated with all... Like Vanessa Feltz told this story where she said, um someone rang up my show the other day and they said in the nativity play, their son had to play a lobster, a lobster. And then later on, someone said, that's a scene from Love Actually.

00:10:44.17
robin
That's not a, you know, that.

00:10:44.44
alexei sayle
Right.

00:10:45.85
robin
And so I was so frustrated with this whole kind of, oh, why i do atheists all hate Christmas and everything? And thought, and I kept saying, I don't, I like it. I like having a break. I like it. It's nice. And so that's why I started doing the original.

00:10:57.89
robin
It was called Nine Lessons of Carols for Godless People. And then because I also realized a lot of atheists were assholes as well.

00:11:02.64
Talal K
Oh...

00:11:04.50
robin
I just made it for curious people to make it more accessible.

00:11:09.40
Talal K
Alright...

00:11:11.29
alexei sayle
that got That got me back in and then watched Stuart with the last of 1981 show which was where I first did stand up again after 17 years.

00:11:11.41
Talal K
Nice!

00:11:15.79
robin
yeah

00:11:21.05
alexei sayle
so He is culpable as well but Linda lets him off.

00:11:25.21
robin
yeah he lets again because she can get him into he can get her into all those free jazz gigs that she loves

00:11:25.62
alexei sayle
Something about you that

00:11:31.64
alexei sayle
yeah

00:11:36.86
alexei sayle
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's why she stays tight with Stuart. But you you you you can offer her nothing.

00:11:41.43
robin
yes

00:11:45.35
alexei sayle
What happened to Ben Goldacre? I forgot. Yeah, because he had a cold proper science.

00:11:48.74
robin
I think he's just doing like real work now, actually about, I mean, he did that really great thing, which was all trials.

00:11:51.96
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:11:56.34
robin
I think it was cool, which was to say that, you know, a lot of organisations actually cherry pick the trials that get released. So it can look like, you know, certain pharmaceuticals whatever it might be. Oh, these results are great.

00:12:07.77
robin
And so he did a lot of stuff, organisation on that. And I think now he he does, he works in Oxford kind of in various different organisations to try, and make many of these worlds more transparent and and more kind of comfortable.

00:12:21.27
alexei sayle
Right, yeah. Because he yeah he did have that fascinating column in The yeah Guardian for a while around about then, didn't he, really? That was, you know, his much that kind of viewpoint is sadly missing there.

00:12:29.21
robin
Yeah.

00:12:35.37
alexei sayle
So I suppose... um

00:12:36.47
robin
i think one i've just got say I think one of the reasons that The Guardian lost a lot of its science columnists was because they got rid of all of them because they kept having to write columns about how their other columnists were writing total shit.

00:12:51.00
robin
And so it was like, well, which do we get rid of? The people who are selling snake oil or these ghastly scientists? I'll tell you what, a lot of people are reading the snake oil shit.

00:12:58.87
alexei sayle
right

00:12:59.63
Talal K
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:13:01.16
robin
So let's go with that.

00:13:01.75
alexei sayle
Yeah, that's what I remember, because a lot of people think that science correspondents, like at the Daily Mail, is somebody with a science background that will have gone to MIT and done a, you know, at least ah a kind of, you know, done graduate work in engineering or molecular science.

00:13:01.91
Talal K
no

00:13:16.33
alexei sayle
Of course, they're not, they're just idiot journalists who were formerly 3am girls or whatever, who've now been bounced over to the science beat and they have no science background whatsoever really.

00:13:29.08
robin
Yeah, well, that's why so often it is it's the first three lines of a press release ah rather than everything that then remains below it.

00:13:29.58
alexei sayle
It's all... Yeah, yeah.

00:13:37.34
robin
in In the same way as, you know, the number of...

00:13:37.75
alexei sayle
yeah

00:13:40.18
robin
it's It's like when you look at the report of a lot of trials and stuff now and you see the results and you go, oh, they've literally only taken one. i mean, we see that a lot with those trials ah over like kind of a lot of the different trans issues.

00:13:52.63
robin
Yeah. where they'll say this was a partial victory for this person who was, you know, against the trans community.

00:13:56.44
alexei sayle
Right.

00:13:59.51
robin
And then you actually go, oh, but they were found to have lost nine out of 10 of the things.

00:14:05.59
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:14:06.16
robin
they But the one out of 10 means that actually they have the greatest victory.

00:14:11.00
alexei sayle
Yeah. No, you get a lot of that with Zionists as well, don't you, really?

00:14:13.99
Talal K
The sinus as well.

00:14:16.86
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:14:17.15
robin
I think those are really good lessons.

00:14:18.15
alexei sayle
Familiar.

00:14:18.62
robin
I mean, like that was one of the things is when I got a lot of the abuse that I would get when I kind of spoke up on, you know, to be supportive towards, you know, the trans community and trans issues, it's exactly the same techniques.

00:14:29.66
robin
So the first thing that you're told is that you hate women. in the same way that the first thing you're told if you bring up anything that's happening in Gaza is, oh, well, you must be anti-Semitic.

00:14:40.67
robin
And of course, to the liberal heart, that's a terrible, you know, you go, but I'm not, but, but, but, but and the fact that even you and Michael Rosen and Miriam are going, know, and again, you have exactly the same thing, which is,

00:14:41.11
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:14:46.14
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:14:54.26
robin
yeah All the women that I work with, you know with with with with Josie Long and with Grace Petrie and all this, they are all also trans allies. So that means they're the wrong women. So they kind of don't really count.

00:15:04.66
alexei sayle
Yeah, the wrong kind of women. Yeah, the wrong kind of women.

00:15:07.22
Talal K
Yeah.

00:15:09.69
alexei sayle
So you've been having... so Well, I mean, there's two things. We were talking before we um we came on air, as it were, about... Well, were about you and Ricky Gervais, ah and and then you leaving the BBC, I suppose leaving the BBC or leaving your science at the Infinite Monkey Cater, which I've been on.

00:15:27.80
robin
Oh.

00:15:28.47
Talal K
infinite monkey cage.

00:15:32.14
alexei sayle
You had me on. You were kind enough to have me on a couple of times. And I think, i think you know, mean, if you turn to out of the depth in the dictionary, you would be me, really. I did find myself, you and Brian Cox, going, you know, the cross-crocculation of the photon um diameter.

00:15:50.63
alexei sayle
And I'm, hey, Gary, I've got a... What about that German fighter from...

00:15:55.32
robin
yeah Yeah, that's the only time we've ever had a complaint.

00:15:57.18
alexei sayle
I was...

00:15:59.32
robin
Someone said I was enjoying the quantum indeterminacy episode until the misinformation about the engine that was brought in by Alexis Hale, which was both irrelevant and wrong.

00:16:08.11
alexei sayle
German fighter procurement, yeah.

00:16:12.12
Talal K
man Oh, irrelevant and wrong. I like that as a slogan for our show.

00:16:15.67
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, we'll put that on the poster. Yeah. and So, I mean, I don't know. it Well, because we were, I mean, you you said you were, I mean, it's funny.

00:16:23.70
Talal K
And wrong.

00:16:24.31
alexei sayle
I mean, we were, again, I mean, I was, I couldn't, fucking believe it i have already i think mentioned it on the podcast that they gave the golden globes for best stand-up to ricky gervais's netflix special i have to say ricky gervais has never been anything but nice to me but that yeah anyway but um um it's just it's so yeah

00:16:46.78
Talal K
Yeah, we were discussing that last week. And then I remembered that when i was I was young and I went to see him live and I saw you supporting him. And we thought, yeah, we did we'd get your point of view on him and like what happened with that relationship.

00:17:02.39
robin
Yeah, it was.

00:17:02.97
Talal K
And that I don't know if this has been something you've talked about in the press before or whatever.

00:17:05.24
robin
No, i mean, the one thing I talked about ages ago, and it was like in ah in about a seven hour podcast, one of those ones where and I very briefly mentioned that I realized the older I got that we very much had the relationship of kind of what he he does really like to bully people.

00:17:20.98
robin
which he would just see as jovial fun.

00:17:21.88
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:17:23.32
robin
But of course, as we know, that might not be how.

00:17:23.51
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:17:25.32
robin
And so he's he's very good at picking people like me who were certainly the way I was for most of my life, which who has a a level of anxiety because then you can feed off watching someone, you know, crumble a bit.

00:17:37.15
robin
And I talked about it very casually.

00:17:37.81
Talal K
Oh.

00:17:38.87
robin
And I just said, you know, I just kind of look back and I realised that it was quite a bullying relationship. and And everyone else joins in. That's the thing is because he's the one who's, you know, keeping everyone employed. So it was always, yeah know, the tour manager and all those things.

00:17:51.88
robin
um And there was one guy who I still see every now and again, who I think was assistant on the lighting. And he was the only one who said, I'm not joining in. This is really nasty. And every time I see him, I think you're a really good person because you didn't get caught up in this Lord of the Flies situation.

00:18:02.85
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:18:06.77
robin
But I talked about it very casually.

00:18:07.47
alexei sayle
All

00:18:08.33
robin
And then about seven months later, the press were looking for something.

00:18:08.89
Talal K
Oh.

00:18:12.39
robin
I think someone had said that they'd been Zeke-heiling outside um a synagogue or whatever because they were doing it because Ricky Gervais is so cool and it seemed like an edgy thing to do.

00:18:23.71
robin
It was something like that. And so obviously the papers then went, where can we find the the negative stories?

00:18:25.61
alexei sayle
right.

00:18:28.41
robin
where And they found this old podcast from like the beginning of the year. And it was amazing just see how cross- people get. I mean, again, it's one of those things of diehard atheists is they really like being a god themselves, which is, I think, why they don't like the idea of a Christian god is because it gets in the way of their own deification.

00:18:42.60
Talal K
Hmm.

00:18:44.94
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:18:46.53
robin
And um seeing his fans, just, you know, the attacks. And now I just don't even, I don't bother looking at it. And you'll always get this thing, you're just bitter. You're just bitter.

00:18:57.40
robin
I think, well, actually, I have a really nice life and I work with people that I really like working with and I get to meet amazing, well, people like Oscar Zerati, of course, you know, that that kind of thing.

00:18:57.46
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:19:07.84
robin
And um so, ah yeah, so so then i think, and we had a big, well, we never had a big falling out because it just never, I did write a thing about three or four years ago I'd started to, again, this was on the kind of his anti-trans jokes, which I i thought were were lazy and really nasty.

00:19:28.15
robin
I think if you put them, if you imagine them as racist jokes from the 1970s, these were really full on and and and very, very vicious to already a community that is tremendously dehumanised and finds it, you know, going through the world. Well, I always think it was very revealing that he used to do a load of stuff about Dawn French.

00:19:46.81
robin
um like kind of fat jokes, but he didn't do them when Richard Curtis was in.

00:19:48.02
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:19:53.50
robin
And I think that says a lot about how edgy you are as a comedian.

00:19:59.03
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:19:59.11
robin
Because I know that whenever, like, ah ah I know that when Douglas Heard has ever been in your audience, Alexei, you never drop the anti, you know, Tory stuff.

00:20:06.39
alexei sayle
Now a soft pedal on the...

00:20:08.08
robin
Yeah. I don't know why Heard keeps coming back. He loves it. But the... um

00:20:12.45
Talal K
Mm-hmm.

00:20:13.11
robin
ah But i so so anyway, so i I just wrote a piece because I thought so many people when they're under attack think, well, I imagine that because Robin worked with Ricky, he would also hold these things. And I just wrote a very gentle piece saying that I think when you've got a platform that big, you do have to think about how you're using your words and the effect they may have on people. And it's not good enough just say, well, it's just a joke.

00:20:39.42
robin
Because it's just a joke to you, but it's not to those people who now feel further dehumanised and other people feel they can take the piss more.

00:20:39.42
Talal K
here

00:20:46.58
robin
Such a gentle piece. And then we just never spoke again because like a lot of free speech people, um one of the things is you're not allowed to have any free speech about them.

00:20:57.56
robin
Yeah, which is what we see in the Trumpist thing.

00:20:57.75
alexei sayle
yeah

00:20:59.28
robin
So that was, and then now I just find it really amazing that the, I didn't watch his last standup. I saw a little bit of his last standup special, which I think is mainly about, hasn't everyone got ADHD now?

00:21:06.92
alexei sayle
so bad yeah yeah

00:21:10.30
robin
Hey folks. um And again, that seems to me to something that I could overhear in a reasonably unimpressive pub. Not, you know, and I don't mean from an act.

00:21:21.59
robin
I literally mean just, oh, look, there's some men going, well, everyone's going out there, don't they?

00:21:25.49
Talal K
that's exactly what he goes for is that kind of energy um because that's his audience as well they're like easy to impress and they just want to hear someone who they would meet down the pub speaking the same way freely and without care um I'm so lucky I dodged that bullet.

00:21:44.38
Talal K
Like, cause I was a fan as a teenager, you know, the office was so big and then everyone was, all eyes were on him and you're watching his standup and you're like, what what's he going to do next?

00:21:46.95
robin
Yeah.

00:21:52.90
Talal K
And extras and all that shit. And I found that his edgy stuff was really funny because I was a child and you know it was fun to like say things that were inappropriate and you shouldn't say it in public and all this stuff.

00:22:00.82
robin
yeah

00:22:07.10
Talal K
And I'm so glad I grew out of that. I'm so lucky that I didn't take that on as my humor. like I still like to be provocative or say something that might put someone for a moment think, oh wait, is that edgy? Oh, no, wait, I actually just understood what he said. And that's actually not a bad thing.

00:22:23.64
Talal K
But he just says the awful thing out loud and proud. And it's, I'm just, yeah, i feel very, I like like, I dodged a bullet that I didn't carry on enjoying that humor of his.

00:22:33.51
robin
Well, I think if your edgy comedy could be sold on to Richard Littlejohn if he's unable to write a column that week, then it's not very edgy. If it's something that is the kind of opinion that is across the media, in the Mail and the Express and the Times, and the then who are you being edgy to?

00:22:50.90
Talal K
Yeah, where's the edge? Yeah. Hmm.

00:22:52.87
robin
You're not really, and and I remember you saying years ago, Lexi, about when you sometimes sometimes had jokes on Americans and people would say, oh, well, you you don't pick on that group, but you do.

00:23:02.89
robin
And you said, well, it is about the positions of power. and And I think that always remained with me.

00:23:06.46
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah.

00:23:08.14
robin
And I know i i could probably go back only a few years and there definitely there's an enormous number of jokes that I wouldn't do now because I'm learning all the time.

00:23:18.91
robin
And hopefully the older you get, the more empathy.

00:23:19.07
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:23:21.41
robin
Like, do you know Tom Shakespeare? I don't know if you met him on the night you did nine lessons.

00:23:26.25
alexei sayle
I feel like I don't know, sure. The name's familiar.

00:23:28.50
robin
Tom's great. Yeah.

00:23:29.89
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:23:30.51
robin
he's He's a, yeah yeah, at least half of it.

00:23:30.62
Talal K
Yes.

00:23:34.07
robin
His dad was called Will as well, which is just, don't do that.

00:23:36.92
alexei sayle
Ray, that's true.

00:23:37.71
robin
that yeah

00:23:38.30
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:23:38.74
robin
um But he's got a form, I forget exactly what it is, but it's a form of dwarfism. And um in the book, Others, which is a fantastic collection of people talking about what it is to be othered, to be on the outside.

00:23:52.87
robin
And he was talking about the way that he can't really go out on a Friday night. Because people might suddenly just grab him and lift him up, put him on a bar.

00:24:01.91
alexei sayle
Yeah. I've seen that it's happening on the street. Yeah.

00:24:05.08
robin
He said, you know, he's had cars stop, someone leap out, point at him and laugh and then get back in.

00:24:05.40
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:24:11.25
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:24:11.93
robin
And I remember reading that and just thinking, yeah, this is what we have to be very aware of, which is there are so many things to attack in the world. But during the rise of fascism, extremism, ah covering up abuse, all those things, that seems to me to be a more interesting topic to go to than, isn't everyone neurodivergent now?

00:24:30.46
alexei sayle
Yeah. yeah

00:24:34.62
Talal K
That was a whole Gervais sketch at one point as well, was ah picking up the little person. All

00:24:40.76
alexei sayle
really

00:24:40.98
robin
Oh, yeah, suppose that is. Oh, God, I hadn't even thought that. Yeah, Life's Too Short. That kind of was... um

00:24:45.94
alexei sayle
ah Oh, God.

00:24:50.62
robin
Do you know what? That was like hearing King Lear come on at the end, carrying... daily

00:24:55.16
Talal K
and all right, we've given that prick enough oxygen.

00:24:59.00
robin
yeah

00:24:59.10
Talal K
um I've just been, ah I was looking at your blog, Robin, and there was an article from bloody hell, 2014, titled, If Alexei Sale pulls a knife, you pull a gun, said Bobby Hall, polishing his cult.

00:25:14.62
Talal K
Any memories of writing that?

00:25:16.89
robin
No, what was that from?

00:25:17.64
Talal K
It's from your WordPress blog, Robin.

00:25:23.06
robin
o God, it's a long time we ago.

00:25:24.23
Talal K
And it begins, you know, in 1979, there was a schism where the end of the pier crashed into the bar of the Marxist art school and the streets ran red with the dye of Bobby Ball, sorry.

00:25:32.98
robin
Was it Bobby Hall or Bobby Ball? Oh, that's right then. Yeah, no, I presume that was just, yeah, thinking about the... yeah Because I do find it really interesting that...

00:25:42.79
alexei sayle
Hm.

00:25:43.12
robin
the Because there are so many brilliant comics now, a lot of them not getting that much exposure. But, ah like, I don't Have either of you seen Hannah Platt?

00:25:55.49
Talal K
Oh no. no

00:25:56.30
robin
she's She's great. she's really hannah plat Katrina Dowden, who did a whole show um about, I think, um medieval saints. And it was funny. And it was, you know i mean?

00:26:07.10
robin
You watch these but and you think all of that world, that the way of using alternative comedy to talk about something bigger than, you know, mother-in-law jokes, whatever it might be.

00:26:17.40
robin
It's all there. But it is now, there are also a lot of Mike and Bernie Winters, kind of, you know, the 21st century versions of them.

00:26:24.97
alexei sayle
They've come back. I've failed to eradicate him. I will just say one thing about Ricky Gervais. His existence must really, his success must really, really upset Ben Elton.

00:26:30.80
Talal K
Oh.

00:26:36.86
alexei sayle
Because Ben is, Ben is, Ricky is what Ben would like to be, but hasn't quite navigated the, I think so, yeah.

00:26:44.47
robin
Really?

00:26:46.61
alexei sayle
I think Ben, I

00:26:46.62
robin
Oh, my God. The... yeah

00:26:50.42
alexei sayle
Because i think i don't I think he's doing a similar thing, isn't he? But in much smaller venues. Oh, God, I'm so petty.

00:27:01.33
Talal K
Here's the better one.

00:27:01.50
alexei sayle
A feud from 45 years ago Amstam.

00:27:05.69
Talal K
ah

00:27:06.46
alexei sayle
Yes, who's the bitter one, really? they

00:27:08.66
Talal K
But still, that Rod Stewart show is unforgivable, so...

00:27:13.05
robin
That is, a yeah, Rod Stewart, who I'd not realised that he actually was promoting Enoch Powell even before Eric Clapton.

00:27:13.37
alexei sayle
Tonight's the night.

00:27:20.70
alexei sayle
Yeah, he's very, very right wing, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, why wouldn't he be really? There's no, you know.

00:27:28.28
robin
I always remember John Peel saying that he was um he was the tightest man he'd ever known. He said, you'd get beers in and you'd put them down and then you'd all finish your pints and you'd just wait, thinking if we wait long enough, Rod might go, well, it must be my round.

00:27:33.53
alexei sayle
Really.

00:27:44.63
robin
And then eventually you'd give up and you'd go, do you want another one? Yeah, I'll have a pint. Oh, can you get me a short as well? I'll have a whiskey. And I did get, in fact, just after we did an event at Latitude Festival, know if you remember this, actually, that I was walking off stage, you were the final event I was doing. And the stage manager ran up to him went, oh, my God, the bloke who was meant to be interviewing Irving Welsh has run away. Is there any chance?

00:28:09.05
robin
you can interview him right now.

00:28:11.64
alexei sayle
who

00:28:11.80
robin
and So literally I turned around as you walked off with Irvin Welsh and went walked stage and said, Irvin, as you know, I've not read your new novel, but we'll just see what happens.

00:28:12.38
alexei sayle
Yes, I remember that. Yeah.

00:28:18.28
robin
But the guy said to me, the stage band just said, there's 500 quid and a bottle of whiskey in it for you, which of course doubled my fee for the weekend. So I was like, yeah, I'll do it.

00:28:26.39
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:28:27.50
robin
And it ended up being the Rod Stewart whiskey, which is, he does a brand of whiskey that's kind of, you know, has ah a copy of Rod Stewart's signature on the side.

00:28:31.48
Talal K
Oh.

00:28:38.17
alexei sayle
right.

00:28:39.13
robin
And I can tell you that, yeah, it's not an impressive whiskey on any level.

00:28:44.30
alexei sayle
I'm not a connoisseur, but, yeah, it's bad.

00:28:46.39
Talal K
It's called Wolfies.

00:28:46.89
robin
Oh, you wouldn't need to be a connoisseur. I think you would, yeah. Even with with ah with an ah you know a palate that is ignorant of the many whiskies of the world, you would... Yeah.

00:28:57.37
Talal K
called Wolfie's Whiskey, serving up Scottish whiskey with a rock and roll edge.

00:28:57.45
alexei sayle
Really.

00:29:05.07
alexei sayle
Fuck it up. um

00:29:09.58
alexei sayle
Didn't we? I think we drove back together, didn't we, from Suffolk that night. I think I came with you in your car.

00:29:14.56
robin
Oh, yeah, you did. Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

00:29:16.22
alexei sayle
Yeah. So I was trapped in, I don't know what I thought I was going to do, how thought I was going to get back. Yeah.

00:29:24.34
robin
That's always what worries me about festivals. know you've done Glastonbury a few times recently, haven't you?

00:29:28.82
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:29:29.69
robin
And the the first thing I think of when I get to Glastonbury is not who am I going to go and see. I think, how am I going to get away again?

00:29:36.70
alexei sayle
Yeah. Well, Roland Rivron lives quite nearby, so you can go and you can always make your way to Roland Rivron's house.

00:29:47.56
Talal K
Thank you.

00:29:47.58
alexei sayle
You can ask a passing farmer. Flag them down, say, take me to Roland Rivron's house. That's where I say it last. Take me to Doctor.

00:29:59.06
alexei sayle
What was his character called, Doctor? It's gross.

00:30:00.86
robin
Dr. Martin Scroat.

00:30:03.06
alexei sayle
That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:05.85
robin
They were great.

00:30:06.09
alexei sayle
So that's...

00:30:06.45
robin
I really do feel sad that those kind of things don't exist now. i was um You know Jacko Jacksit, don't you?

00:30:16.02
alexei sayle
and I feel like no. um of goians In raw sex.

00:30:18.26
robin
Jacko used to be in Raw Sex. ah And he yeah, he would play the the occasional Lothario Spaniard that Roland DeBette

00:30:28.18
alexei sayle
All right, yeah, because but because mostly it was Simon and Roland, wasn't it?

00:30:31.26
robin
Yeah, and and he would come on and Jacko is actually, he played on Nigel Plainer's Neil's Heavy Concept album and he's a member of King Crimson now and all that stuff.

00:30:31.54
alexei sayle
All right.

00:30:40.30
robin
And he says he just remembers in the 80s and early 90s being in these kind of drinking clubs and hearing Roland Riveron just talking shit and coming up with the maddest ideas like, what if I did a chat show just floating in the Thames and we've all got kind of inflated and I'll just be there bobbing up and down with Wendy James.

00:30:52.95
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:30:57.18
robin
And you think, it was a mad idea. And then he said, you go back home a month later and you turn on the TV at two in the morning and there will be Roland just bobbing in the Thames with Wendy James.

00:31:01.40
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yes. Channel 4 would make it. Yeah. thosewi it Those were the days. Actually, he was around, yeah, because he's a handyman. I don't think he bothered. You know, he's a handyman now.

00:31:19.29
robin
Yeah.

00:31:19.77
alexei sayle
And he was around yesterday fixing our toilets.

00:31:26.23
robin
His book is fantastic.

00:31:27.19
alexei sayle
I'm much happier for it.

00:31:27.43
robin
ah

00:31:28.76
alexei sayle
Well, how the fuck did I get here?

00:31:30.97
robin
Yeah.

00:31:32.92
alexei sayle
was Yeah, well, he's i mean he's ah he's ah he's an interest interesting, you know, Roland is a which maybe we should get him on, really, because he's an interesting, think i mean i I don't think I'm betraying any confidences here, but he had, um so he had, the one thing that he, because when he did the holiday show, he got into caravanning,

00:31:42.39
Talal K
It's about time.

00:31:57.69
alexei sayle
and became a kind of leading light in the caravan world. And every year at the NEC produces caravan, you know, 2026 or whatever, you know, caravanic, caravanico, caravanspico.

00:32:12.98
alexei sayle
He does like a big thing in front of like thousands of um thousands of people. Anyway, but he had a bleed on the brain and he was taken into hospital.

00:32:23.90
alexei sayle
And then they rang his his wife, Monica, and said, Your husband's down, you know, we're a bit worried about your husband's cocky because you your husband's down as ah as a handyman, or you know. um ah But he keeps going on about how he's got to get out because he's presenting this gigantic show at the NEC.

00:32:47.51
alexei sayle
And she said, no, it's it really is. He does both, really. I mean, remarkable, remarkable career.

00:32:55.70
robin
I just always found him. So the moment that I first, i mean, I loved Raw Sex. I thought they they they would just, one of the first shows I ever saw in Edinburgh when I was 18 was Raw Sex.

00:33:01.08
alexei sayle
Yes, it was inspired. Yeah. Yeah.

00:33:08.64
robin
And Kathy Burke was in that at that point as well. And Jacko was in it. and um And then when Roland used to do those things like the Bunker Show and stuff, late night ITV, Night Network, I absolutely, there was something about him

00:33:19.35
alexei sayle
I was on that. Yeah.

00:33:24.98
robin
that he was just, the eight and and I met him once, um I met him back, so I had a friend whose brother did all the legal stuff for Bad News, ah the comic strip band, and I went to see him at Hammersmith Apollo, and then he got us tickets to the after show in this pub around the corner,

00:33:38.23
alexei sayle
Which i imagine there was a lot.

00:33:48.76
robin
And, of course, as an 18-year-old, I was in awe.

00:33:48.92
alexei sayle
Right.

00:33:51.04
robin
You know, there's Rick over there. There's Dawn over there. you know But the person I got talking to was Roland, who just put up with two, you know, 18-year-olds.

00:34:01.34
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:34:02.07
robin
And he but just ah and it kept doing impressions of Ben Elton, actually.

00:34:07.77
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:08.25
robin
He said, just say anything you want. Say, you know, just so we'd say, I don't He'd say, Ben Elton's routine on hats. But then everyone's got a hat. He's got hat. She's got hat. Who's got hat? He hasn't got hat. Why hasn't he got hat?

00:34:21.69
robin
And he would just do this for about an hour. It was one of the greatest fights of my life.

00:34:24.28
alexei sayle
yeah

00:34:25.77
robin
And I thought the fact that...

00:34:26.20
alexei sayle
yeah

00:34:27.25
robin
you i've I've always had a tremendous amount of of respect to people who don't have any front. you know I always liked the fact that that bit where you could just talk to everyone just in a normal way and and not carry with you those kind of you know the the the the golden orbs of show business.

00:34:45.98
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. so

00:34:51.45
Talal K
Absolutely.

00:34:51.54
alexei sayle
He's the happiest of all of us, I think. Really. um so now so where And now you were in that you were in the papers again for quitting.

00:35:03.83
alexei sayle
Controversial. don't know if anybody's noticed that um i've through this entire interview, I've been eating one almond croissant. which comes from it's very comes from a local croissanterie called O'Panda Papi. I thought it'd be on their bag, but it's not.

00:35:21.71
alexei sayle
it's ah If you're ever in the King's Cross area and you want, it's ah it's not cheap. But if you want to if you want a an almond croissant that'll last you through an entire podcast, then I recommend O'Panda Papi.

00:35:35.00
alexei sayle
Just putting that in there.

00:35:36.59
robin
Can I just say that some of these podcasts, they're really overt in the way that they show their sponsor.

00:35:37.56
Talal K
I can't stand.

00:35:42.71
robin
But the subtlety of you showing your sponsor throughout the podcast just by picking a little bit and every now and again going, oh I think the the money they pay you is so well earned.

00:35:43.03
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:35:54.07
alexei sayle
Yeah. I thought I got away with it as well. But yeah. so Yeah.

00:36:00.34
Talal K
No, we will never have a sponsor on this show. We rely purely on the support of our good-hearted listeners who visit patreon.com forward slash AlexisL podcast.

00:36:10.99
Talal K
Thanks for the queue up there, Robin. Go to patreon.com forward slash AlexisL podcast.

00:36:16.33
alexei sayle
Ay, papi, papi, ay.

00:36:18.10
Talal K
i pop And chuck us a few quid a month and you will help keep the wheels a turning and ah keeping this show moving forward and upwards.

00:36:19.53
alexei sayle
Ay, papi.

00:36:27.18
Talal K
And you get see full video episodes and other exclusive content on that Patreon website. One last time, it's patreon.com forward slash Alexis Sale podcast.

00:36:37.75
Talal K
um Your blog goes on here, Robin. It says, Alexei Sale looked to Jimmy Tarbuck square in the eye and bit the tip off his nose. All mainstream comedians were sent to a Blackpool gulag.

00:36:49.85
Talal K
it So it looks like you've got done this little bit of creative writing in here, Robin, about...

00:36:53.48
robin
God, I didn't. you know what? It's funny because I write all the time and I'm always just making it. So i've I've even done that thing. I don't if either you have ever had that bit where you did something on stage and someone comes up to you after and said, I really enjoyed that bit about the kimono in the Dachshund.

00:37:07.42
robin
And you go, oh, I don't think that was me. And then when it was for about eight minutes, that moment where you just get to taken over by.

00:37:12.12
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:37:14.46
robin
ah but But it's such such an immediate thing.

00:37:18.39
Talal K
Yes, it belongs to that moment.

00:37:18.42
robin
that I often find that with writing. when Sometimes people will send ah ah like a couple of lines from a book that I've written and say, oh, i really enjoyed this. And then I'll think, well, who wrote that?

00:37:29.53
robin
And they go, it's in your book. And I go, whoever does my books, which is me, obviously, that sometimes they do an all right job.

00:37:34.74
alexei sayle
yeah

00:37:36.50
Talal K
ah

00:37:36.86
robin
Whatever happens in their head.

00:37:37.37
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:37:39.32
Talal K
This seems to be...

00:37:39.51
alexei sayle
i remember one years ago.

00:37:40.44
Talal K
a

00:37:40.83
alexei sayle
Come on.

00:37:41.72
Talal K
go oh Go on, Lex.

00:37:43.29
alexei sayle
and I was just going to say, years ago, me and Lisa and Rick, I think, tried to do a fan quiz about the young ones and couldn't get any of the answers, right?

00:37:52.85
Talal K
Uh-huh.

00:37:53.64
robin
Well, I still live with the pain of forgetting Bacon Sandwich, which is the name, obviously, of the pig mascot in Bambi when I did The Young Ones as my celebrity mastermind subject.

00:38:07.03
alexei sayle
Really? Really?

00:38:07.87
Talal K
Oh, shit.

00:38:08.86
robin
Yeah. i I'd originally said I'd like to do Kurt Vonnegut and they went, ah, takes too much research. Can't be bothered. um And then I said Rick Mayall and they said, well, there isn't an official biography.

00:38:20.75
robin
was like, don't need an the official biography to go through his IMDB page whatever.

00:38:22.94
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:38:24.44
robin
And so eventually we whittled it down to the young ones and I watched 12 episodes, probably about...

00:38:25.05
alexei sayle
yeah

00:38:30.10
robin
10 times, literally noting down like posters that were behind the fridge, thinking that's what John Humphreys was going to ask. And um by really overdoing the revision, I forgot little details like bacon sandwich.

00:38:44.76
robin
And much like you with some of your technological aviation errors, my failure to remember bacon sandwich was roundly mocked.

00:38:54.20
alexei sayle
Cost you dear. So um tell us about your your late well i tell us about what what you're up to generally. partly

00:39:04.34
robin
Well, love je well i'm writing ah ah the I'm writing a book about empathy at the moment, and that's quite an interesting book.

00:39:04.69
alexei sayle
the

00:39:11.72
robin
Yeah, I kind of, ah really, um I wrote a poem a while ago called Weapons of Empathy because I was thinking about how much, I mean, comedy played its part in in empathy.

00:39:16.82
Talal K
Thank

00:39:20.94
robin
You know, when I first got into alternative comedy, there was a lot of stuff that I was being introduced to. And in the same way where, you know, things like the specials, I look back now and I think, here was I, a middle class home counties kid.

00:39:35.51
robin
And then I start listening to the specials. And that was in much the same way as as some of alternative comedy was. This was like an education in the world. And it led to lots of that's what I love about, you know, really good comedy to me very often.

00:39:50.42
robin
you You think, where did I first hear about that? And it was just a name that was just dropped in the middle of a routine or whatever. But if you're really fascinated. And so I was thinking about how important a lot of the kind of art and music has been for me in terms of empathy. And then, of course, because I basically, I i think the reason that I had to resign from the infinite monkey cage was over ah an empathy situation.

00:40:11.61
robin
um So, because basically I just, what the stuff I was putting out on social media was considered incendiary.

00:40:14.94
Talal K
Yeah, what happened there?

00:40:20.57
robin
ah And I really thought it was humanitarian. I didn't see like saying things that were, Negative about Donald Trump or positive ah about trans community or other LGBT stuff or, you know, even mentioning, because at one point I mentioned some of the, when they had that, you remember they projected Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein on the side of Windsor Castle?

00:40:48.04
robin
I presume that was led by Donald.

00:40:48.95
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:40:49.66
robin
And all I did was I just put up a thing on my blue sky saying, unfortunately, it's always been very easy for paedophiles to get into this castle.

00:40:50.23
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:40:56.82
robin
And then I just mentioned that, you know, Prince Charles, King Charles, whatever he is, that he, you know, three of his closest people, Prince King Charles, Lord Mountbatten,

00:41:04.82
Talal K
think it's the Prince King Charles.

00:41:06.26
alexei sayle
Yeah. There's a very good, what's his name? Oh God. Yeah, but to go ah got Craig Murray did a very good piece on that. Yeah, Mountbatten, Wilford Thesager.

00:41:21.14
alexei sayle
That lands on the past.

00:41:21.30
robin
Lawrence van der Post, uh,

00:41:23.51
alexei sayle
Maybe I'm bad mad in Wilford Thesager.

00:41:24.66
Talal K
shit What did it say again?

00:41:25.30
robin
I think Lawrence van der Post, I don't know if it was, that but i think it was Lawrence van der Post who got a 14-year-old pregnant when he was meant to when he was 46 and meant to be escorting her to ballet school, I think.

00:41:25.62
Talal K
I talked over you.

00:41:29.59
alexei sayle
Yeah, you're right. i just

00:41:35.10
robin
And then Peter Ball, who I think was Bishop of Lewis or something like that.

00:41:37.55
alexei sayle
That's the one, yeah.

00:41:38.66
robin
And he used, and to me, that should not be considered to, well, that's very bad.

00:41:39.00
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:41:44.50
robin
And this this affects our journalistic integrity. One, I'm not a journalist. And two, I think integrity, especially when we watch, you know, ah yeah watching what's going on around Epstein.

00:41:56.06
robin
And there's a great book, which I recommend to everyone who's listening to this. Lucia Osborne Crowley wrote a book called The Lasting Harm. She went to the Ghislaine Maxwell trial every single day. She made sure she was one of the four people to, four press people to actually get into the room of the trial.

00:42:11.99
robin
She would stand in the freezing cold at two in the morning to make sure she got in.

00:42:16.96
Talal K
Jesus.

00:42:17.12
robin
She's now friends with many of the people who were victims. And um I read books like that. And I think, no, this is the whole problem, isn't it? Which go, well, I mean, there are rumours, aren't there, but?

00:42:29.82
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:42:30.04
robin
And I thought, well, these things aren't rumours.

00:42:30.68
alexei sayle
Yeah. Now.

00:42:32.50
robin
and um And I didn't think that it was. but But I think that's the bit, isn't it, which is the Overton window swung so much that actually just mentioning the proximity of, of ah you know, abusers, rapists, et cetera, to power is considered to be the kind of thing that only the maddest of, ah you know, kind of Trotskyists would do.

00:42:52.52
alexei sayle
Well, they paint it that way, don't they? and there was a be It was the there was the producers of the BBC who were giving you earache about this.

00:42:58.90
robin
it was There were a couple of executives and and I think it was, I think it probably ran a bit deeper as well because especially with, because it was the first time that I mentioned, or one of the first times I think I brought up, all I did was I'd mentioned that I saw that Graham Linehan was getting, you know, all this praise for being a great feminist.

00:43:21.17
robin
And I was thinking of the women that I knew who were great feminists, very often at cost to their own career for what they stood up for.

00:43:21.24
Talal K
Thank you.

00:43:21.24
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:43:28.45
robin
Again, people like Josie and and and Grace Petrie and then also people like Carrie Adelaide as well. And they were all getting relentlessly bullied and abused for saying positive things and trying to be positive towards the trans community.

00:43:42.68
robin
And that was coming from Linehan.

00:43:43.15
alexei sayle
Mm-hmm.

00:43:45.08
robin
I thought, how can he be a great feminist if he attacks any woman? who doesn't agree with him. And in fact, a a friend of mine said to me, you probably forgotten, but when he was campaigning for abortion rights, he would very often come to various feminists and say, by the way, you're doing it all wrong.

00:43:58.42
robin
I'll explain how you can do it better as a man. And um so that was all I put up. And then that I thought, oh, that was just, you know, it's only a mild thing I just put up. And I didn't even use his name.

00:44:09.39
robin
I just said, I think it's a bit weird that someone's being celebrated as a feminist when they attack any woman who doesn't agree with them. And um I thought, oh, that's it. No one's really even replied, forgetting I'd turned off being able to see the replies.

00:44:17.91
Talal K
It's a bit weird.

00:44:21.22
robin
And then a day later, I started getting those messages which were going, really sorry to see what's going on.

00:44:21.75
alexei sayle
Ha ha ha ha ha.

00:44:27.37
robin
and I was like, oh. And then I found out that I was ah a very popular figure on Twitter. And um and I think from that point onwards,

00:44:38.04
robin
It was really focused on because anti-trans people would write into the BBC and say that I shouldn't be allowed to present science show because I didn't know the science of sex and gender. And I think I was also being watched.

00:44:48.86
Talal K
and

00:44:50.68
robin
so So they were watching everything on the social media and then kind of reporting it.

00:44:52.22
alexei sayle
Right, similar to the Zionism thing, yeah.

00:44:55.36
robin
And I think there were people who weren't necessarily involved directly in the show, but were quite close to people in the show who were in particular watching very, very closely what I was up to and in the hope of...

00:45:08.50
robin
you know, getting rid of me.

00:45:09.27
alexei sayle
You trip up and you...

00:45:09.50
robin
And ah now, now since I've resigned, of course, I mean, what first thing I say is the thousands upon thousands of people, one of the reasons that I resigned was I thought this isn't the time to hinder your free speech during the rise of the extremism that we're watching.

00:45:25.85
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:45:26.12
Talal K
Mm-hmm.

00:45:26.49
robin
um And I had so many people have been in contact who are, who've been fans of the show and say, we're really going to miss the show, but we're glad you did that. And I think one of the reasons I wanted to do it was, I think an organisation like the BBC is constantly doffing its cap to extremists from Tufton Street and not aware that the majority of their listeners do not hold the opinions that they're being told.

00:45:47.51
alexei sayle
Absolutely, yeah.

00:45:53.21
alexei sayle
Now,

00:45:54.06
robin
her and And, you know, on the night, i the last show we did, It was ah a beautiful venue in Manchester, the NIA or something like that, and a beautiful old theatre where Nina Simone used to play a lot.

00:45:59.33
Talal K
Thank you.

00:46:07.67
robin
And when the producer got up, who's someone that I like a great deal, and I like a producer, i said oh just I said, you want to sit down, actually? I am going to have to say something. So i thought I can't leave the final le episode without mentioning it.

00:46:19.26
robin
So I just made a bit of a kind of, you know, speech about it.

00:46:19.54
alexei sayle
Right.

00:46:22.37
robin
And my friend afterwards said that everyone was in support because they they're not, they don't hold these hatreds that apparently appear to be self-evident really on.

00:46:31.93
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you see that with the...

00:46:33.98
Talal K
Jesus

00:46:36.09
alexei sayle
yeah the the po I mean, you I think you see that, you know, the Maccabee Tel Aviv ban, which is supposed to be such a scandal.

00:46:40.66
robin
Yeah.

00:46:42.45
alexei sayle
Most British people can see that it it was perfectly justified. Yeah, you never hear dicky-bared about that on the media, I think. And should also point out that I've only just finished eating that almond croissant.

00:46:55.74
alexei sayle
In fact, I've still got bits of almond in my teeth to enjoy that almond croissant from...

00:46:58.73
Talal K
Christ.

00:47:00.57
robin
slowly those almonds will start to form into the name of the patisserie. And then the smile at the

00:47:05.72
alexei sayle
ah Oh, the Petit Street.

00:47:08.60
Talal K
so you you ah So your departure from that show, who shut up, Lexi.

00:47:08.77
alexei sayle
Oh, Panda Papi, you mean. Oh, Panda Papi on the Kings Cross Road.

00:47:16.92
alexei sayle
$4.35. It's not cheap. I'm not saying it's not cheap. $4.35 is a lot, but it's a very it's so really exceptional almond croissant.

00:47:24.38
Talal K
Your departure meant the end of the show.

00:47:26.81
robin
I don't know. No no one's told me. i mean I mean, I said that I was, when I ah resigned in September last year and I said I was very happy to, we we had a ah show that we were planning to record in January and the date started to put in.

00:47:41.72
robin
And I said, I would happily do that ah because I also knew Brian was going to be taking a year off anyway. So I said, i so I thought this was a good time to do it. And they said, no, it would be much better if you just ah skipped off as soon as possible.

00:47:51.35
Talal K
Right.

00:47:55.25
alexei sayle
Just go. Just go.

00:47:56.84
robin
Yeah, you've let everyone down.

00:47:58.17
alexei sayle
Just leave.

00:47:59.70
Talal K
Jesus. and So you must have been bit fucked off.

00:48:05.56
robin
I am, you know what? I'm deeply upset by it. And I can't deny that because I think the hardest, a while ago, because there was a point where the BBC, I wrote a bit about this in Normally Weird and Weirdly Normal, and you've plugged your, ah stop looking to see if there's more almond croissant in there that you've left behind.

00:48:20.91
alexei sayle
There's a couple of... there's a couple of them

00:48:22.82
robin
um The, yeah, um But i there was a point where my agent had a meeting with me and said some of the executives of the BBC believe he might have a mental health problem, which, of course, is a...

00:48:36.00
alexei sayle
All right. Yeah.

00:48:37.35
robin
Again, i think either that's been incredibly apparent for 30 years of performing, and why has that come up now, or... but But, and also I think is a very typical thing that happens in those situations. I know many people who've been whistleblowers. They get to the point where people go, oh shit, I think they're going to talk and immediately go, we're very worried about you mentally actually.

00:48:57.24
alexei sayle
yeah

00:48:57.39
robin
But, but from that point onwards, I think I really was aware of negative voices around me. And i mean, real negative voices, by the way, now I'm sounding even madder.

00:49:09.37
robin
I was really aware of the voices, you know i mean? So, um

00:49:12.52
alexei sayle
There wasn't dogs and cats and stuff saying to

00:49:14.04
robin
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All of the... And...

00:49:15.90
alexei sayle
And there pottery clowns on the mantelpiece. They're the ones that get me, always telling me to set fire to orphanages.

00:49:22.10
robin
Yeah, and every time I flush the toilet, I hear Roland Rivron inside my system, ah just just playing the bongos.

00:49:25.88
alexei sayle
LAUGHTER LAUGHTER

00:49:30.68
robin
But but um but the the thing that kept me there was that, one, I love, love making the show. And two, I knew how much people loved the show. And I really, the hardest part of the decision was a sense of betraying those people who listened because it's ah it's like the beautiful thing where there are 10 year olds who listen and there are people in their 90s who listen and I get messages from both of those groups you know and it's yeah and and that was the hardest thing but again I just looked at the world as it is now and and I just thought if a few of us don't at least make some pointless gesture every now and again

00:50:10.58
Talal K
No, solidarity, bro. that's you You did the right thing. And it's ah it is sad that it's come to this where you have these fucking fascist voices being amplified and platformed. And then, so who's edgy now? you know Who's edgy?

00:50:28.42
Talal K
It's the ones getting kicked off the BBC. And we're the we're the fucking lefties and the ones who are have empathy.

00:50:30.49
robin
yeah

00:50:34.84
alexei sayle
if you Have you ever done that? I mean, presumably that's you done for live at the Apollo.

00:50:39.10
robin
I think that was done, a yeah, for a very long... Josie Long said to me the day, she we the only two comics who've never been on that? ah But I think, you know, there is a... That's always what I find funny about this. There's still this peddling of comedy as some left-wing pursuit.

00:50:56.60
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:50:57.34
Talal K
yeah

00:50:57.60
robin
But the majority of it is, you know, generally anodyne. And most people are very wary of saying anything. Even some of the ones who say they're a bit political will still, I mean, you know, doing the stand up for Gaza gigs, it's it's generally roughly the same people that you're going to be sharing the crisps with.

00:51:15.19
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:51:17.27
Talal K
Yes, it is, yeah.

00:51:17.37
alexei sayle
Yeah. Robin Romesh versus Interesting Things. ah I've seen Rob Beckett on that, talking about his tumble... think his tumble dryer, but not in any... Not with any, like, worked-out comedy material, but just talking about his tumble dryer.

00:51:39.38
robin
Yeah, i remember the I remember watching a comic talk about the annoyance when Pret-a-Manger don't remind you to take a spoon for your yoghurt.

00:51:39.72
alexei sayle
I thought, no, I don't know.

00:51:48.82
alexei sayle
Yeah. That's...

00:51:50.07
robin
And I felt of the rage in the world. I do know it's annoying to have to drink a yoghurt on a busy train, especially if you've got a beard or moustache. But at the same time, it felt the... um

00:52:01.02
alexei sayle
Yeah. Yeah. that was

00:52:02.07
Talal K
Well, as you said in the article, if Alexi pulls a knife, you pull a gun, said Bobby Ball polishing his coat. You said that, because this it turns out this blog is about the feud in 1979 between alternative comedy and mainstream comics and how there'll only be one winner and like this is a new breed of comedy.

00:52:20.31
Talal K
But at the end, you you do surmise the comedy world is big enough for all variants.

00:52:24.98
robin
yeah

00:52:25.14
Talal K
you know There's not a one size fits all with comedy. You can't make them all laugh, etc. So the yeah the idea that somewhere there must be a comedy that will bring the nation together, like Morecambe and Wise or Hancock is nonsense.

00:52:41.62
Talal K
Um, if Hancock was on now, would 30 million tune in?

00:52:42.62
robin
Yeah, don't I don't think that kind of thing...

00:52:45.32
Talal K
So like there is room for everyone, but, uh,

00:52:48.24
robin
It's just whether they get... I mean, I always find it amazing to see how it's the same faces. So, in fact, if I hope you don't mind. I'm going to do something that's slightly indulgent because a friend of mine died yesterday and her name was Susan Vale. And Susan was the most fantastic comic and a brilliant etc a big fan of the fall as well she did latitude once where she thing called fall bingo where basically people would pick a number and that was attached to a fall album and she'd take that out and tell a different story based around each album there's a lot of fall albums right and she used to tap dance sometimes as well and she was just really really funny but she was always kind of

00:53:21.08
Talal K
wow

00:53:30.90
robin
neglected And I remember doing a gig with her in Manchester once, there were a few of us. And afterwards, when they were dividing up the money, I said, um oh, don't forget, Susan's not had any money. And they went, oh, yeah, but that's just Susan.

00:53:42.78
robin
And I thought, no, she's, she you know, that the way that some people just get pushed into this. So I just wanted to mention her because she died yesterday and she was ah one of the, I used to write sketches with her, my mate Carl for a Radio 4 show called The In Crowd.

00:53:48.30
alexei sayle
Yes.

00:53:57.62
robin
And we would just laugh and laugh and laugh. And I think that's one of the things, sometimes I can feel angry about opportunities I've not had. And then I can also think of people who've not even had opportunities you know, the tiny bit of of ah of that kind of You know, of anything. So if any of you don't know, Susan Vale, she was a very, very funny human being, very, very smart, deserved far more than she got. And I particularly enjoyed when, I believe, in fact, in one of my books, over when she used to dog sit her daughter's angry chihuahua, that made it an even greater joy to stay there because angry chihuahuas are entertaining in their own way.

00:54:40.45
Talal K
Oh man. Yeah.

00:54:40.97
alexei sayle
It's funny, isn't it? Some people just you know don't just don't register, really. and it's not I don't know what it is. It's just yeah it's not lack of talent. It's just they don't people don't see them somehow.

00:54:53.14
robin
I also think Sue sue was, you know, again, that I know I keep mentioning Josie, but i think she was so important. She's someone who doesn't get enough, you know, stuff because she has just that level of not fitting in, which I don't think would have been the problem in 1982, say, you know, with when alternate.

00:55:09.08
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:55:13.36
robin
But now it's like, oh, yeah, but she's a little bit. And and you think that when people go and see her yeah there are certain acts that, you know, in some ways kind of help people stay alive.

00:55:26.87
robin
yo you And and

00:55:26.94
alexei sayle
Yeah, yes, absolutely.

00:55:29.34
robin
and and I think, you know, the mediocrity where you just go, oh, this blandness, and then you go and you see someone. I was mentioning, you know, Katrina Dowden. Do you know, ah oh, God, what's she called? i don't I can't believe that I've forgotten her name. oh but Don't worry, because I've forgotten name.

00:55:43.96
robin
Do you know that person?

00:55:45.21
alexei sayle
ah um No, I mean, so but it's always you're going to say, do you know Cornelia Schmuck? And then I'm going to say, no, I don't.

00:55:53.98
Talal K
People always leave leave Josie's shows with their minds blown at how fucking phenomenal she is at putting her art together, putting stories together and constructing these hour long shows.

00:56:07.02
Talal K
We've had her on the show here. She's an absolute star. And yeah, so there is room for everyone, but not at the fucking top, I suppose.

00:56:11.30
robin
Have you had Marilyn Robertson on?

00:56:14.71
alexei sayle
No, no, no, we don't know anybody.

00:56:14.74
robin
Do you know Marilyn Robertson?

00:56:17.24
Talal K
No.

00:56:18.19
robin
She's from the Shetland Islands. So immediately means that when she starts talking, it's fascinating because she's got that accent that's kind of Scandinavian and Scottish.

00:56:24.95
alexei sayle
yeah

00:56:28.60
robin
And she's an amazing storyteller. I'll just give you this example of one of the shows that she did in Edinburgh, which was during the Fringe, which was she has a condition that means that um when she menstruates, she could bleed to death.

00:56:40.75
robin
right I think now it's a handbag.

00:56:42.58
alexei sayle
Yeah.

00:56:42.91
robin
That's what she got, right? She did a whole show about that.

00:56:47.06
Talal K
Jesus.

00:56:47.22
robin
And I love that before the show started, when everyone was coming in, she just stopped spraying fake blood onto the stage.

00:56:54.46
alexei sayle
yeah

00:56:54.94
robin
And she said some nights she just hear a woman in the front row go, no, not for me. So they literally left before it even began.

00:56:59.64
alexei sayle
ah

00:57:01.49
robin
But she is the most amazing storyteller and and proper funny bones. And that's the thing is I look at someone like her and I always wanted to get her a monkey cage as well, because I think she studied something like archaeology and and ah when we did mummies and stuff that.

00:57:15.45
robin
But again, it was that kind of thing of, oh, which she's a bit weird. And I was like, well, most of our listeners are a bit weird as well. They really want a bit weird.

00:57:22.37
Talal K
Hmm.

00:57:24.28
robin
That's, you know, because it makes them go, we're not the only bit weird people in the world.

00:57:30.97
alexei sayle
I agree. um Did Donna O'Brien do astrophysics?

00:57:35.38
robin
I think so, yeah. Yeah.

00:57:36.89
alexei sayle
Makes me think astrophysics is a lot easier to do than... It's like when Eddie Izzard ran all those marathons. and made me think, I bet I could run a marathon now.

00:57:50.27
alexei sayle
Eddie Izzard couldn't run 26 one after another. Must be easier than you think.

00:57:53.72
robin
Oh, don't do it now. I mean, that idea of the autopsy, them going, he'd have made it as well, but unfortunately an almond croissant blocked up one of his ventricles.

00:57:59.67
alexei sayle
so

00:58:02.31
Talal K
You

00:58:03.13
alexei sayle
um

00:58:04.54
Talal K
Could you, could you ah rest in peace, Susan Vale? I'm so sorry for your loss of your friend. um She sounds wonderful. Marlene Robertson, I'll keep an eye out. But speaking of self-indulgence, would you mind reading to us that poem that you have about Alexei and you and Josie in the hot tub and all that?

00:58:23.54
Talal K
I would like Alexei to hear it firsthand.

00:58:23.90
robin
Oh, yeah. youeth Stuart Lee hates this poem because it reveals too much about his private life. um This was... um

00:58:32.73
Talal K
And maybe tell us before you start actually, and then maybe tell us a bit about your transition into into poetry in your in your work.

00:58:38.52
robin
Yeah, sure. ah i'll just So basically, this was... um You're doing the Larm Weekend Festival this year, aren't you, Lexi? Yeah.

00:58:45.02
alexei sayle
I don't think I am, but I don't, I usually do, but i don't think, I don't think I've been asked this.

00:58:46.26
robin
Yeah.

00:58:50.02
alexei sayle
I didn't know there was one.

00:58:51.38
robin
Oh, maybe, yeah, maybe.

00:58:51.67
alexei sayle
I don't think I've been asked, but maybe I'm, maybe I am.

00:58:52.26
robin
you were but Well, anyway, the Larm Weekend Festival is, um I remember one of my favourite times doing that was I was meant to be interviewing Mike Brearley, the England cricket captain and psychotherapist.

00:58:54.54
alexei sayle
I don't know.

00:59:03.26
robin
And I suddenly heard someone going, Mike Brearley's in London. And he'd been told the wrong weekend. It was 10 minutes before the show. And I've been interviewing Robin Asquith from Confessional Window Cleaner and obviously Pasolini's The Canterbury Tales.

00:59:12.76
alexei sayle
Yes.

00:59:16.11
robin
and um ah And I saw him walk but up by and I went, Robin, they're goingnna cancel the the show. But I thought instead, why don't we take it over? ah Can I interview you? And I'll only ask the questions I was going to um ask Mike Brearley.

00:59:30.71
robin
So Robin Asquith came in and the final question was about, i said, now Wittgenstein, when he died, just before he died, he said, um it's been a wonderful life. And John LeMessurier said, it's all been rather lovely.

00:59:42.95
robin
Now, there's a lot of similarities. And i know you work with at least one of those people. And that's how we had a lot of fun. But yeah, so this was, Josie and me were sharing a um ah little bit.

00:59:48.44
alexei sayle
ah

00:59:49.39
Talal K
Thank you.

00:59:52.04
alexei sayle
I say Robin us is the nicest. We travelled back with him that day or the day after from Larn on the train. and he's just the most you thought you We have had so much fun, me, you and him. I never want to see you again.

01:00:07.86
robin
yeah I think there's a... but Isn't there a picture of all three of us somewhere, I think?

01:00:13.34
alexei sayle
Is there?

01:00:14.10
robin
Yeah, for when we're out outside...

01:00:14.36
alexei sayle
Wow. That's like, I was, i now he's dead. I must try and see if I can get him there's a photo of me, Salman Rushdie and Alan Yentop taken by that Richard Young, that, you know, paparazzi in the 1990s. We look like a kind of Levantine,

01:00:31.44
alexei sayle
Theatre, you know, the three Mustafas. um And I know Yentob used to have it in his office, the late Alan Yentob. I could never... And I think... I i don't know whether Salman Rushdie ever asked for a copy.

01:00:44.18
alexei sayle
I often asked Richard Young for a copy, but he never would because I didn't have the the heft of Alan Yentob. But I'd like... If anybody can find that photo, I'd like a copy of it, really.

01:00:55.94
robin
Oh, that's it.

01:00:56.18
alexei sayle
Anyway, sorry, ika that's...

01:00:56.25
robin
i go

01:00:58.37
alexei sayle
Oh, Panda Pappy. what...

01:01:00.38
robin
So this was basically Josie when we were sharing ah one of the little holiday chalets.

01:01:02.06
Talal K
Okay.

01:01:04.34
robin
She went, oh, my God, there's a jacuzzi there. We'll have to have a jacuzzi tonight. And i said, I'm not really a jacuzzi person. And then we bumped into Stuart and Stuart Lee immediately went, oh, wow, you've got jacuzzi. Oh, we'll have to get in the jacuzzi then. And I was like, oh, God. So um I did in the end. And this is just called Trotsky Hot Tub.

01:01:21.69
robin
So this is about what happened there. How can this be? Stu and Josie and me all in a jacuzzi. They'll say, you can't be lefty. Too much luxury. Water bubbling like lava and you're swigging carver. Don't you want, don't you? I'll do this all over again.

01:01:37.66
robin
You do edit, doesn't matter. um

01:01:39.74
Talal K
Yes, I had it. Don't worry.

01:01:42.20
robin
So this is Trotsky Hot Tub. How can this be? Stu and Josie and me all in a jacuzzi. They'll say you can't be lefty. Too much luxury. Water bubbling like lava and you're swigging carver. Don't you lot want to ban fun?

01:01:56.70
robin
But as Alexi said, champagne socialism is champagne for everyone.

01:02:02.42
alexei sayle
Very true. That's what we're fighting for. And luxurious.

01:02:07.22
Talal K
Champagne.

01:02:08.83
alexei sayle
Armand croissant. For the entire proletariat.

01:02:14.26
Talal K
Who was, i found the picture.

01:02:14.26
alexei sayle
um Yeah, go on.

01:02:16.42
Talal K
who who did he say was with you and Salman Rushdie in the picture?

01:02:19.48
alexei sayle
Alan Yentob, former head of BBC Two.

01:02:22.04
Talal K
And David Baddiel, unfortunately. Okay.

01:02:24.76
alexei sayle
Oh, that's a later one. No, that's ah that's a later iteration.

01:02:28.73
robin
I love the fact that it turns out you've been photobombing Salman Rushdie for years.

01:02:29.11
alexei sayle
No, there's an earlier...

01:02:35.64
Talal K
ah

01:02:35.90
alexei sayle
yeah

01:02:37.09
Talal K
That's a ah gorgeous poem and I've, ah fucking you're so fucking good at writing them as well. And they're really snappy and short and great punchlines often.

01:02:43.11
robin
thank you.

01:02:47.14
Talal K
And what's your, what's brought on this transition into poetry from comedy?

01:02:51.77
robin
so Do you know what? It really was losing my self-loathing, which was kind of... um ah ah Well, um um a mixture of...

01:02:57.39
alexei sayle
Why'd you do that? Where'd you leave it? Another bench in the Houtt Barnhof in Bremerhaven. I left myself loathing.

01:03:05.62
robin
It was basically... Well, you know, if your self-loathing drives you, then I think that's – but no, I just – so I found out there was a guy called Jamie, Jamie and Lion, and he got in contact with me and kind of explained, ah oh, everyone's got ADHD nowadays.

01:03:11.06
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:03:24.56
robin
yeah Anyway, so he explained that, that I had that, and then I'd take a bit of anti-anxiety medication.

01:03:29.00
Talal K
Thank you.

01:03:30.78
robin
And the combination of the two just now means that I just write all the time. and i'm not And I don't have to, when I do poems, because um a lot of my shows now have almost more poetry and than anything else.

01:03:36.95
alexei sayle
ah

01:03:41.78
robin
And I don't, you know, in the past, I would have to introduce a poem. I'd go, well, I kind of call this a poem, but it probably isn't really a poem. It's probably not a proper poem, you know, and you'd have to put in all of the things. but Whereas now I just think, and and i I don't care. i i care incredibly about every single show.

01:03:58.58
robin
But I don't feel nervous beforehand. And I'm really excited to just kind of, you know, ah to talk and express different things.

01:04:04.04
Talal K
you

01:04:07.69
robin
And i'm i'm not I'm not ashamed. And I feel incredible. I mean, that would be one of the reasons that I was able to resign, because in the past, I think... You know, when you've got, you can very easily be shut up with with your opinions on the world, humanitarian, political, whatever it is, by people going, well, actually, you see, there's another, and you go, well, yeah, I am actually very rubbish, and I don't really know anything.

01:04:29.46
robin
And obviously having, you know, Brian Cox being very, you know, smart in the world of physics, playing and now because I think that was one of the things that went, no, I really do need to, even though I don't want to burn this bridge, I need to.

01:04:32.76
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:04:42.90
robin
Because i do have the confidence to say, i think I need to stand up for this. And I know I'll get some people who will hate me even more. And I know I'll get aggression. um It was funny because someone said the first newspaper article about the resignation was the Daily Express. And they said you were very lucky because they hate the BBC more than they hate trans people. They're actually quite pro you.

01:05:06.81
alexei sayle
Take a win where you can get it. right um and what have you got upcoming? plug the Plug whatever you've got.

01:05:14.01
Talal K
Yes, plugs, plugs, plugs.

01:05:15.58
robin
Oh, I'm doing, yeah, I'll be doing the Lion Weekend Fest. When does this go out, by the way?

01:05:20.06
Talal K
ah Day after tomorrow.

01:05:22.10
robin
Oh, okay. um I'll be at Cambridge Junction.

01:05:22.94
Talal K
Saturday morning.

01:05:24.54
robin
I'm doing Cambridge Junction. I'm also going down, I'm doing the old library in Bodmin, and next one which i'm I'm really looking forward to, with my friend Joanna Neary, who's, ah i don't know if you saw her online, so I can't remember if she was on the night you were on.

01:05:26.39
alexei sayle
Nice. then

01:05:38.55
robin
She's absolutely brilliant. And then I'm doing ah Falmouth, ah the poly in Falmouth, on, I think, Tuesday, the 3rd of February. So that's going to be just a solo show.

01:05:49.13
robin
So I'm kind of going around the place and and my poetry book, Ice Cream for a Broken Tooth, is out now and Normally Weird and Weirdly Normal is coming out in in paperback. And then there's another poetry book soon called Let the Quiet Ones Rise, which has got probably even more the kind of...

01:06:04.54
robin
um poetry of of kind of different forms of solidarity as well because that's one of the things that I love about it is because I don't have the shame and because I feel that I can express my love for things and my passion for things and I don't care if someone goes oh that's a bit whimsical or oh isn't that right on well fuck you I say to them and I shall continue

01:06:27.96
alexei sayle
Well, well done. you're You're a credit to the nation.

01:06:29.21
Talal K
Yeah, well done.

01:06:30.84
alexei sayle
And a umm where we're going to be together on February 7th at the Slapstick Festival in Bristol, a reassessment of the TV series Lexi sells stuff.

01:06:39.99
robin
Yeah. it's open

01:06:41.80
Talal K
Oh, yes.

01:06:43.92
alexei sayle
It's sold out, so I don't know what, you know, which I'm gratified.

01:06:47.70
robin
But it was. um is ah The Slapstick Festival is such a lovely thing ks because, you know, yeah we did it together about what, three years ago, was it?

01:06:49.30
alexei sayle
So a moment I don't know what nothing we can do about that, really, but.

01:06:56.70
alexei sayle
Yeah, I was so happy that... that

01:07:00.67
robin
We did it together three or four years ago.

01:07:03.48
alexei sayle
The Young was saying.

01:07:04.86
robin
yeah And then we also did a best of as well.

01:07:04.89
alexei sayle
But I do this...

01:07:06.70
robin
We did the... the the um the the You talking about your favourite comedy clips.

01:07:11.61
alexei sayle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:12.50
robin
Yeah.

01:07:12.65
alexei sayle
But also I do every... Well, I think I do it every year now. m Because they venues are so expensive in... They do a fundraising benefit.

01:07:22.74
alexei sayle
But because venues are so expensive in Bristol, they actually do it in Reading, at the Reading Hexagon.

01:07:27.44
robin
Yeah. Yeah.

01:07:28.91
alexei sayle
And I see it every year. And it was just four comics last year. Just really... There was Stuart, Arthur Smith... um I've forgotten. Shazier. Yeah, Shazier.

01:07:45.78
alexei sayle
And that tall, red-headed guy from the northeast with Longueh. He's got like an Alex the Beckett King, yeah.

01:07:49.86
robin
Alistair Beckett King.

01:07:51.34
Talal K
Alas the back again.

01:07:52.31
robin
He's great. He is. i mean, that's a great guy, but he he is.

01:07:53.75
alexei sayle
Yeah, he's really good.

01:07:55.79
robin
ah i loved I did a Just Stop Oil benefit with him. And his opening line was, um I'm not here because I support the cause. I'm here because I hate the paintings of Van Gogh. What a fantastic opening line.

01:08:09.94
alexei sayle
oh

01:08:11.13
Talal K
okay can i get a quick can i get a quick plug in please actually i have something to plug that we need to sell tickets to do you mind alexi sir can i plug a show

01:08:11.16
alexei sayle
Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah, he seemed very good.

01:08:23.16
alexei sayle
No, no. Well, I do, but I'm going to pretend I don't. Yeah, well, go on.

01:08:27.61
Talal K
Thank you, Daddy.

01:08:28.50
alexei sayle
is

01:08:28.85
Talal K
On the 13th of February, which is my birthday, annoyingly, I'm going to be in Leicester. Not annoyingly. Leicester Comedy Festival with my improv team called The Bazaar.

01:08:41.05
Talal K
We're Europe's first Middle Eastern North African improv team. And we're actually good. I promise. ah The Bazaar presents Arabian Nights Live at the Little Theatre in Leicester as part of the Leicester Comedy Festival. Go to comedy-festival.co.uk.

01:08:57.72
Talal K
and look for the bazaar and please get a ticket and come come say hi.

01:09:01.67
robin
Oh, yeah, i'm I'm doing the Leicester Comedy Festival on the 17th of February as well, which is three days before my birthday.

01:09:02.74
Talal K
I'd love that.

01:09:08.54
Talal K
Oh, we're both Aquariuses, which doesn't matter.

01:09:11.70
robin
Oh, no, I'm just on the cusp.

01:09:13.97
Talal K
oh okay, good, that's fine.

01:09:15.70
robin
I always get Brian Cox to do me astrological check every year.

01:09:17.34
Talal K
Get out of my star sign. Oh yeah. All right, I think that about does it, unless you've got anything else to plug, Alexei.

01:09:24.79
alexei sayle
No, no, no, thank you, Robin. It's always been absolute pleasure and a, you know, hayride, rollercoaster ride of, don't know where it's going to go next, a rollercoaster ride that's become detached from its rollercoaster and it's hurtling through the countryside.

01:09:43.26
robin
Oh, that's nice.

01:09:44.47
alexei sayle
taking down pomposity and anger and rage as it careens. I don't know.

01:09:52.57
Talal K
Thank you, Robin.

01:09:53.66
robin
See you in Bristol.

01:09:53.69
Talal K
Solidarity.

01:09:53.75
alexei sayle
Thank you, Robin. Thank you, Robin.

01:09:56.06
Talal K
Thank you, Pandipapi.

01:09:57.59
robin
Oh, I mentioned this as well because you mentioned Shazir.

01:09:59.42
alexei sayle
Yeah.

01:10:00.27
robin
We're also screening at Slapstick um South Park, Bigger Longer Uncut.

01:10:04.75
Talal K
Oh, amazing film.

01:10:04.92
robin
And South Park's takedown on Trump at the moment. know if you've seen it.

01:10:10.13
alexei sayle
I don't really watch South Park.

01:10:11.26
robin
Oh, I think you'll really enjoy this.

01:10:11.31
alexei sayle
I feel like I've left it too late.

01:10:12.78
robin
Right. So Trump gets Satan pregnant. um Satan has the tiniest asshole.

01:10:16.54
alexei sayle
ah right Yeah. Yeah.

01:10:18.42
robin
They deliberately made it tiny so nothing could get into it. But Trump's penis is so small it was able to get into his asshole. And J.D. Vance is basically her vilachez from Fantasy Island.

01:10:29.69
robin
And its childishness, I know, will genuinely annoy those kind of, ah but it is angry Satan being made pregnant by Donald Trump ah masturbating with a pair of tweezers is great fun.

01:10:30.49
Talal K
Yes.

01:10:37.59
alexei sayle
yeah

01:10:47.56
Talal K
Impregnated in his bum.

01:10:48.77
alexei sayle
that's a

01:10:50.30
Talal K
On that note, Alexei.

01:10:50.36
alexei sayle
just On that note, yeah, um we'll say bye-bye.

01:10:55.81
robin
Bye.

01:10:56.50
alexei sayle
See on the seventh