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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey everybody, J.J. Cooper, Jeff Punks, another other baseball America prospect podcast, Deep Dives, and today we are talking about the St. Louis Cardinals, an organization that has embarked on, if we won't call to rebuild at least a step back and a youth movement that we've seen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's led by now one of the best prospects and baseball Jeff, great to see you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just going to dive right in here because

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[SPEAKER_00]: We have a number on prospect in every organization, so we ask this question, how difficult was the decision to rank?

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[SPEAKER_00]: In the case of JJ weatherhole at number one, it's obviously easy because when you talk about JJ weatherhole, you are literally talking about someone that we were in consideration.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's one of the top three prospects in the game.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Number three prospect on our top 100.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm imagining that that was the slam dunk even in an organization that has some other top 100 prospects.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was the slam dunk choice.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he really was, and I think the debate with him is he's not one or two, but it's, you know, is he three through 10, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Depending upon what top and honor list you're looking at.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But he's in the conversation for sort of that next tier of excellent prospects.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he's not one of the two elite guys, but sort of falls in right below that is gonna be a valuable defender.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Besides all the things that he brings offensively,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's something with weather health that gets a little bit underrated is he can play all over the end field, you know, strong at shortstop above average there probably every day if he wasn't an organization or someone like Mason Win wasn't there every day shortstop.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think naturally

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, naturally would slide over the third base, or even second base, depending upon how that infield sort of comes to be on opening day.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I do expect him to break camp.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that, you know, he got more than a half season in AAA last year with Memphis really produced there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Even made some slight adjustments to his swing and his approach just to get to a little bit more

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[SPEAKER_01]: that I think is still kind of bubbling under the surface there and as, you know, he sort of grows and progresses and some of that final projection kind of hits this body.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think he is a guy that does project for 20 plus home run powers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It just may not be immediately and especially in a place like St. Louis, which isn't the easiest to hit for power.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, day one might be the best hitter in the organization right now, really good bats at ball skills, excellent approach, one of the better approaches in the game.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a 70 hit tool.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We've said this on other podcasts.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Had it not been for Kevin McGonagill, this would be the best hit tool in the miners.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Along those lines, we're going to not spend as much time on a number one prospect here because, as you noted, we just, if you want more, we'll link to it, but the top 100, I'll put it like the link right there, the top 100, we talked in depth about JJ weatherhole on that because he's the number three prospect on a top 100 video.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But what I would note with this, so also you mentioned that you expect in the right camp.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's the player who, I think that you and I actually have an offline Slack discussion yesterday about does PPI incentives and all influence decisions.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you, I think I'll probably think it affects him a little bit more than you do, but I would say the way I would put it is is even if it's just a minor factor in the case of weatherhole.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He should go into the season as one of the leading candidates to be rookie of the year in 2026.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if that's the case, if he's on the opening deroster or very close therefore to the opening deroster.

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[SPEAKER_00]: you get an extra draft pick, but the flip side of that also is, is if you don't put him on the opening, they were asked if you wait a little while, and then he is rookie of the year, well, he's going to get the full year of service anyway, so there's an incentive on both sides, not that we're going to say like, oh, he's guaranteed to be rookie or anything like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He has opportunity, like you said, this is a guy who, when you can hit like this, it gives you a better chance to be a rookie of the or candidate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing that stands out here is, there are multiple other players here on this top 10 top five, really.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That,

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[SPEAKER_00]: If there's no JJ weatherhole, Liam Doyle is a perfectly, not just acceptable, but you would feel very good, I think, in a organization about having Liam Doyle's and a more prospect.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I would throw Rhinel Rodriguez, their number three prospect into that boat as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is a number three prospect on the Cardinals list who in many years, I think, over the last decade or so, would have maybe been the number one prospect in the Cardinals organization.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What do you say?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think when you I'll just you know it's kind of speak on the top of the list here a little bit and then we'll get into Doyle, you know, I think when you look at a good farm system.

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[SPEAKER_01]: When you sort of have those questions maybe not with the number one like weather halt where it's slam dunk, but when you have.

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[SPEAKER_01]: two or three top or a hundred prospects that are all within the top 50, and depending upon who you speak with, they might have Doyle higher, they might have Rodriguez higher, and that's even something that's reflected, you know, internally I think in our top 50s that got released.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a good problem to have, and it sort of speaks to the depth of your system and the fact that you have variety of different types of prospects.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That said, I think the thing that I love about Doyle is obviously the fastball quality,

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of the foundation in this profile.

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[SPEAKER_01]: One of the hardest left-hand fastball in our top 100.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the hardest left-handed fastballs thrown by a starter in the minors.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you just kind of look at, if the velocity holds the same as what we saw in college, and I think it will.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's not a problem.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's not a question with Liam Doyle's profile.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's super competitive, he's really fiery.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I would necessarily say like a bulldog, I don't love that expression.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of a showman, and there's a lot of flair and a lot of swagger, and I think, you know,

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[SPEAKER_01]: You sort of need that as a starting picture because you're going to take your lumps and you're going to have your, you know, your big moments too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a guy that has kind of leveled up each year that he was in college has expanded his arsenal, though the big question mark with him is the secondaries, does he have a plus secondary?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think the splitter in small samples has been above average, but we need to, you know, we're kind of extrapolating that over a larger sample size that may not necessarily hold the same sort of metrics and performance, but I think it's a good starting point.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, for him in the offseason, I think sort of finding a go-to breaking ball and approach with his secondaries, because he's going to have to curb some of that fastball usage.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But we've seen guys like this translate.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the profile is all that different in some regards than what the questions were with Peyton Tolian.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the questions that still remain with Peyton Tolian.

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[SPEAKER_01]: hard throwing left hand or really unique fastball traits throws the fastball a lot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we saw a totally have a ton of success throwing fastballs at a much higher rate than anybody else in the Red Sox organization.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Unique traits just like Doyle, velocity, not quite as much as Doyle, but some.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then sort of a mixed bag of secondary looks that he was throwing at you and kind of, just changing approaches and changing looks and trying to throw a bunch of pitches

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a road map for this to work.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think the real big question mark with Doyle isn't going to be double.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I or even AAA, I think it's going to be one Doyle does when he first gets up to the major leagues.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And how successful he can be is a primary fastball probably off speed pitcher.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and not a breaking ball guy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As a lefty, that's probably a little easier than doing it as a righty, but we still obviously need to see the quality breaking ball.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And even an average breaking ball that he can consistently land, which might be the cutter.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that would take him to another level.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But those are the questions that remain, I'm personally more in the on Liam Doyle camp just because of the fastball quality.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he does have a track record of being a starter, at least for two years in the SEC, but three years against pretty good college competition and really performing last year in the SEC.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then right now Rod Riga's number three on this list.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, we'll get back to him because I think he might be an answer to a question that we've got coming up.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So before we get there, I do want to ask you, how is the system better or worse than last year?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, it's leaps and bounds better than last year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think you look obviously, weather halt was there at the top.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You had more guys like tank hens and a lot of those guys that maybe were coming off better seasons, but there wasn't the same amount of depth, there wasn't the same amount of quality.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You did have a rhino rod regas, but it was coming off a DSL season where there were still more questions than there are right now regarding how is it going to translate in terms of the hit tool, how is the power going to translate?

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of stock in Yario, Padilla.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Who is still a pretty good prospect, but just kind of underperform the expectations a little from what you know we had kind of heard with some of the growth in terms of height and

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know muscle mass and all that sort of stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think you look at some of the arms and you can maybe be a little bit more negative with some of the injuries that have happened hence has come in off a bad year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Quinn Matthews is coming off a really down year after winning minor league pitcher of the year in 2024.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But overall, he's trying to follow the Robbie, sorry, but he's trying to follow the Robbie's selling path because Robbie's

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It always goes kind of bad and then goes good again.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, maybe that's that's, you know, but I think there were always going to be some adjustments.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're a little shock that he didn't get up to the big leagues, but with some of the struggles in arm it, you know, injury stuff like that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not all that shocking in retrospect.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think you could look negatively at some of the arms.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Cooper Giarpia obviously had a surgery to Cola Roby who was a guy that scout still are really high on is out for all of 2016, assuming 2026 after a pretty good 2025.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, he got up to triple A, you know, he was on the 40-man roster.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it would have been shocking to see him get some

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so all that depth is still there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's maybe, you know, ETA wise has changed a little bit, and they've back filled with a ton of good trades at the trade deadline that added a lot of depth within this, uh, within this organization, they drafted well, uh, this year, and they had some breakouts with guys like Josh Bias and others that,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really taking this system to do another stratosphere, so it's much better, but I did try to focus on some of the maybe negatives that you could take away from it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I still think when you look at a lot of players coming in, not a lot of players coming out, not a lot of guys graduating, and they still have that sort of North Star at the top in JJ Weatherhold.

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[SPEAKER_00]: J.J. Weatherhold ranked 25th year ago, Quinn Matthews 41st, Tinkend, 68th on the top 100.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This year, the Cardinals had three players in the top 33, including Weatherhold at three, which, by the way, that number three ranking is the highest ranked Cardinals prospects since the late Oscar to Varus, kind of the tragic story Oscar to Varus, who ranked number three basically a decade ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Only players to ever rank higher on the baseball player could top on her for the Cardinals.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Rick Ankeel, back when he was a pitcher, before he kind of had the thing, man, he was really goes a pitcher before that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And JD Drew, those are the only two.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So JD Weatherhol is tied for the third highest ranked Top 100 Prospect in Cardinals, organization history, 30, seven years now of the baseball merit, Top 100.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But, who do we think will be next year's number one?

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[SPEAKER_00]: We don't think that's gonna be weather all, we just said that we think he will be on the opening day roster.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Liam Doyle,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think we think has a pretty good chance to graduate as well from how you just laid it out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like how his development goes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But Doyle, or I mean, I feel like Reno Rodriguez is assured to still be in the minors.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Still be eligible a year from now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is he the logical next year?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Number one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there's a case that you could spend.

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[SPEAKER_01]: for Rodriguez pretty easily.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think that's the easy answer because when we just look at the track record of SEC starters that had the type of success that Liam Doyle had in the SEC, those guys tend to get up to the or just collar starters that have his kind of success because the guest burns isn't technically an SEC starter though he was at one period in time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Those guys get up to the big leagues very quickly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Usually by July, especially if they're like

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's dominating Springfield, okay, we sent him to Memphis for four starts and yeah, he's, you know, shutting it down and dealing with the, the challenge system fine and all that sort of stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a chance that he gets up to the big leagues and they see what they have here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's also a chance that Doyle is the number one next year has a good season.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just one of those kind of years where we've seen this at different points.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, Boba Chandler got up last year, but for about two or three months, every chat that we did, J.J. was like, when is Boba Chandler going to finally get called up, when is Boba Chandler finally going to get called up?

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[SPEAKER_01]: It could be one of those.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He could shove and then just the Cardinals like there's no reason for us to, we're all going to get the pick with whether he'll probably, he's doing great up here and there's a scenario

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if Doyle does get called up, or even if he performs, there is also a chance that Rodriguez just goes nuclear and is one of, you know, is the new Samuel Bassayo, not as big, but a really advanced bat that catches him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think his chances of sticking behind the plate are probably pretty similar to Bassayo's.

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[SPEAKER_01]: maybe even a tick better, especially the organization that he's in and there's their track record of developing lots and lots of catching talent, whether it, you know, turns into something at the major league level as another conversation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, I do think there's a really good chance he sticks a catcher sees 70 games behind the plate for forms pretty well there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a

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[SPEAKER_01]: if he hits the way that he did in the low way and you know, high aim at West League and then maybe gets a double A as young as he is, it's gonna be really hard to keep that guy out of the top 10.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's a chance that he just, you know, that it's like a doiled doesn't perform, doesn't graduate, so whatever, it could just be that Rodriguez is on a rocket ship and this is sort of that next step in him leveling up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And in terms of just like scout feedback, it was about as good as I got in a bat all season long, and we have the underlying data, a lot of you have the underlying data, because a big chunk of a season was in the Florida State League.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's all there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this guy knows how to find the barrel, he makes contact, good swing decisions, all the traits that you're looking for in a top 10 kind of hitter, and a chance to stay at a premium position.

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[SPEAKER_00]: actually you just kind of hinted at another part which is as we ask what is this or good at developing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna have a follow-up question to this but I mean you know it's hard to think of an organization that is turning out more catching prospects right now than the cardinals.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is that what comes to mind to you or is there something else?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think it has to be because you sort of look at the cardinals and you look at some of the prospects that have gotten up to the big leagues Brendan Donovan, you know, was a prospect for them and got that they drafted, but he was a seventh rounder that kind of was a gritty guy that kind of outperformed his draft stock.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't some of that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think was on them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Burlson, I think was a success story.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They got some hitters, you know, Lars Nupar, you know, Mason Winn, they certainly got more out of him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there's also just as many cases where you'd be disappointed with a Nolan Gorman, a Jordan Walker.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think Dylan Carlson and what he eventually evolved into is a concern.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But then you look at the catchers that come to this organization and so many guys get up to the big leagues.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And currently, I mean, they have Pedro Pais, who's a really good defensive catcher guy that was always ranked in the top 30, but more in like the

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[SPEAKER_01]: 16 to 30 range, but everybody that threw to him, any pitchers in the Cardinals organization spoke to pitching coaches to spoke to everyone who really raved about Pi as his defense.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Ivan Herrera should get some more games behind the plate, not the greatest defensive country sets of injuries that I think limited his time back there as well, but are really good

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[SPEAKER_01]: They have two of the better close to the major is catching prospects in Jimmy Crooks who's a guy that can hit it's in a top 10 really good defensive catcher and then you know Leo Bernal who I guess we're kind of low on versus the rest of the industry, but.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Still have a pretty good grade on.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Think he's in every day guy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm maybe, I know we want a minor league gold glove.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm maybe not as enamored by the defense as that might state.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Those awards are in always 100%.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it's really good back behind the plate and it's going to stick, you know, as a catcher and can hit a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you can even just look in the current organization and not even look back at the annuals of, you know,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Cardinals catching prospects etc that we've seen come through.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They do a really good job with that particular position.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's tough to knock it and even some of the guys get into the organization out of the draft or sign or always kind of maybe follow them a little bit to see is this the next guy that's going to break out because they always have guys that really know how to pick it back there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That the follow-up is kind of a little bit of what you just alluded

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[SPEAKER_00]: What, if I'm a Cardinals fan, and obviously it's a new regime, the high and bloom regime now, but if I'm a Cardinals fan, and you hear about all these great prospects, I get it if you are probably the most skeptical prospect watcher of any organization right now, because Jordan Walker was a top 10 prospect in the game.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dylan Carlson was a top 10 prospect in the game.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Nolan Gorman was a top prospect, and

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[SPEAKER_00]: In the case of Carlson, Carlson was a 3.2 b-war player as a rookie, as a 22-year-old.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Third and rookie of the year voting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: At that point, if you said you have a 22-year-old outfielder, then our fielder would complain both corners, but you can play all three outfield spots.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's already had a three-war season he's hit.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As a 22-year-old, watch out, what is this guy going to develop?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And basically, to say that he's never come close to that again,

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[SPEAKER_00]: he tailed off the next year and by the year after that essentially he is he's now in the world of with an invite let's see if you know like he can regain you know big league status as a 2627 year old Jordan Walker obviously has not been productive.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Nolan Gorman kind of that same little MO where it's like Nolan Gorman was a 27 home run hitter in 2023 is a 23 year old and they're looking for him to come close to back to that again now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you're how skeptical, how worried if your cardinals fan should you be, there's like, yes, you've got another wave of prospects here, but the last wave really has not so far worked out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you know, when has worked out?

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's, there are some guys that have worked out because I think there are some success stories that we've talked about.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think whether Holt is a different class of player and prospect than the type of guys that we're talking about.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can be more skeptical, I think, with Rhino Roderigas, but even in terms of meeting a variety of markers that we look for with quality of contact beyond just EVs and just hitting the ball.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Vat the ball skills contact rate.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He checks all those boxes, was like Jordan Walker always had some of that stuff lurking, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Can he pull the ball?

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the angles are inconsistent.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was always some swinging mess.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was always higher chase rates.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And Gorman, there was always, you know, some more hit tool risk.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Carlson, I would, you know, I would have to dig in a little bit more to kind of break down specifically what it was that went wrong with Carlson, because it did like the player, you know, at the time when he first came up and, you know, was really impressive, he said, you know, three plus B wore season as a rookie.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I would understand being a little bit more skeptical.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a higher upside cardinal system.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think the players that are in the system have higher floors than the guys that we were talking about.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think as we get down the list, there's a lot more upside in terms of the pitching than we've seen.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Over the last 10 years at least in terms of the Cardinals draft approach, it's not really just the K to BB guys that throw lots of strikes, a lot of lefties with 90 miles per hour fast balls.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's some legit stuff now, and I think that's something that I am bloom.

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[SPEAKER_01]: First with the red socks and now with the Cardinals, it's kind of becoming a signature a little bit of his systems.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would say you could go back to the race, someone on that too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But so that is the end of the video portion of this on YouTube, our Baseball America YouTube channel.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you're watching there and you want to see more of this, you want to hear more of this such, it's not similar.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This phone is stare at your radio or your phone while it gives you another 20 minutes or so.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about sleepers and some other aspects of the cardinal organization on the podcast.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll go right back after right, just right after this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Jeff, we're back, and this is the part that we always love to dive into.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go a little deeper here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Who are some sleepers after the top 10 on this Cardinals list that fans should be paying attention to?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think this, this is a really fun system to kind of dig a little bit deeper, you know, I think there's kind of some some obvious guys like a Ryan Mitchell, you know, who's a hydraft pick for them this year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Second round or they got like two and a quarter million dollar signing bonus.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't seem like it's just because the depth of the system there are some guys like that that may be, you know, more like top 10 guys.

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[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of other systems.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not that fun.

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[SPEAKER_01]: A name I want to call out here is Daniel Ortiz, who is a guy that they had signed out of Walter State J.C. in Tennessee.

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[SPEAKER_01]: A couple of years ago

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[SPEAKER_01]: And really performed over a couple of seasons in junior college, but there's always questions like this of, you know, how or how are the skills going to translate, right, we see a lot of guys with loud Jew code numbers and then they come into pro ball and, you know, they get they get punched a little bit, right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That did not happen at all with Ortiz.

23:40.962 --> 23:50.496
[SPEAKER_01]: Started at low A, but he is just 21, so a little bit younger, got up to high A, across the entire season, 107 full games, JJ.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hit 300, 416, 482, 13 home runs.

23:54.822 --> 23:55.923
[SPEAKER_01]: He stole a bunch of bases.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that translates so much.

23:58.307 --> 24:05.597
[SPEAKER_01]: When you peel back the layers of the onion a little bit and you get into the nitty gritty of his underlying numbers, really good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: EVs, excellent swing decisions, some fringy back to ball skills, which I think make the profile a little bit more risky, really good angles.

24:15.129 --> 24:18.874
[SPEAKER_01]: They had them play in a multitude of positions, first base, some third base.

24:19.234 --> 24:21.617
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you played some corner out field as well.

24:22.178 --> 24:26.683
[SPEAKER_01]: Not a tremendous defender can run a little bit, so maybe he ends up in a corner out field spot.

24:27.144 --> 24:34.453
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think when you're talking about a 16th round or out of Jukeau with a 200,000 dollar bonus, to kind of get

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[SPEAKER_01]: professional debut full, you know, season out of him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Really impressive.

24:39.959 --> 24:43.703
[SPEAKER_01]: I think just the power plus angles with good swing decisions.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I can buy into that a little bit, especially if, you know, this is a guy who's coming from, you know,

24:56.658 --> 25:08.170
[SPEAKER_01]: there's some adjustments that can be made there and oh by the way one of the reasons I love this guy he is a he is a Massachusetts prospect JJ grew up in the Lynn Massachusetts transferred to many of those

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[SPEAKER_01]: in Florida.

25:09.965 --> 25:19.377
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think even from the cold weather perspective, you can kind of start to maybe build a little bit of a narrative that the hit tool could really level up in the next couple of years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's really interesting.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There are parts of me that maybe wanted to go a little bit higher with him, but get in a minute, 20 getting him into the top 20, I think sort of made a statement from an unrank guy and someone that was way off the beaten path coming into 2025.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So like you said, the other thing like the sleeper wise to stay out on this is there are guys who are ranked in spots that would make them sleeper this year that there have been other years for the cardinals that they would not because the other thing as you mentioned is

25:52.447 --> 25:56.334
[SPEAKER_00]: Help, if you're a Cardinal fan, you said there's been trades here, right?

25:56.614 --> 26:11.860
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I would say Brandon Clark being most notable, pitcher they brought in who jumped straight into the top 10, but there are multiple players on this top 30 now, this updated top 30, available at baseballamerican.com, that we're not Cardinals, but not that long ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: How much of a talent infusion have they, uh, they have they made here?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, quite a bit, and I think it's one of those conversations where

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[SPEAKER_01]: You can talk about, you know, all the different acquisition phases and how they really did a good job across the board, the draft, you know, they went and they got, you know, a Liam Doyle and a Tanner Frank when another guy with really big stuff, more of a college reliever, they do plan to develop him as a starter and we've seen some of those guys Brandon's broke obviously had a little starting a success at Florida was primarily a college reliever.

26:54.580 --> 26:57.488
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, in their, in their first full season as a starter.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really interested to kind of follow a guy like that too.

27:01.720 --> 27:06.092
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I think you look at some of the trades and while it's not anything that's.

27:07.861 --> 27:20.818
[SPEAKER_01]: Boosting up their top 10, that's, you do have one guy in Brandon Clark, huge stuff, left in a picture, type of guy that the cardinals typically have not targeted or gotten in the same trade.

27:21.219 --> 27:31.853
[SPEAKER_01]: They got Yoker, Frijardo from the Red Sox, another really interesting young picture in the lower levels with good stuff, good slider, good command of his breaking stuff.

27:31.873 --> 27:36.619
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's an interesting one to watch Ryan Mitchell who we talked about was a guy they got in the draft.

27:36.599 --> 27:47.919
[SPEAKER_01]: He's used bias was a guy that was a top five or 10 prospect for the meds last year had a little bit of a down year, but still has some really good trades, and I think would be a top 10 prospect and a lot of other systems.

27:48.400 --> 27:49.943
[SPEAKER_01]: So you kind of go throughout this system.

27:49.983 --> 27:52.988
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of guys that they drafted a lot of guys that they traded for.

27:52.968 --> 28:02.806
[SPEAKER_01]: There's been an infusion of pitching talent in particular between the draft, with Doyle, and Frank when Kade Crossland to a lesser extent.

28:03.407 --> 28:06.893
[SPEAKER_01]: And then a lot of these other guys that kind of started and we started our role.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, each shot was a guy that was already in the system that they sort of slowly developed after draft them in the eighth round in 2023.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, not part of the talent infusion, but maybe one of those classic cardinals guys of like a lefty pitchability guy but with a little bit extra, like, unfund the stuff that maybe take some a little bit further and allow some to be like a nice number five.

28:33.181 --> 28:46.918
[SPEAKER_01]: type of starter, somebody who had a phenomenal year, and that was the other pros and bring up was, though there were some injuries and underperformance with guys like Henson and Matthews, you had breakouts from guys like Josh Bias, Eashon Henderson had a really big season.

28:46.938 --> 28:55.088
[SPEAKER_01]: I think both the catchers and crooks and burn all over the last couple of years have established themselves, and then another one I wanted to call out, somebody that

28:55.321 --> 28:56.983
[SPEAKER_01]: It kind of got in a little bit forgotten.

28:57.403 --> 28:58.404
[SPEAKER_01]: It was Bryson Mott's.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I believe that he was their minor league pitcher or the year this year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Had a phenomenal year, added a couple of ticks on it with fastball.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's now throwing like a low VA, a flat VA, a four-seamer, and a two-seamer that gets a ton of ground balls.

29:13.059 --> 29:14.881
[SPEAKER_01]: So some variance in the fastball looks.

29:15.281 --> 29:19.045
[SPEAKER_01]: He's gotten above average, maybe even a plus slider, dating back to college.

29:19.065 --> 29:21.227
[SPEAKER_01]: He's always got a ton of swing to miss with that pitch.

29:21.207 --> 29:23.289
[SPEAKER_01]: And the command took another step forward this year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Britain Davis is another guy that they had targeted out of Oklahoma back in 2024.

29:29.076 --> 29:31.059
[SPEAKER_01]: He took a really big step forward this year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of guys like that in the system.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Brian Torres even, who's 28 years old at the back end of this list, and on their 40-man roster, a guy that they got out of independent ball after he had kind of washed out and affiliated ball his first time through.

29:51.734 --> 29:52.235
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

29:52.435 --> 29:53.916
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think I had that in the right up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so I, you know, I think you look at this, even some of the guys at the back end, like Zach Levinson had a really good bounce back year, even though he's 27 on this list, it's a really interesting system from top to bottom.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would argue it's probably, at least in my experience here in five years or four years of handbook writing, it's probably the best system I've ever written up for the handbook and it got even a little bit better afterwards.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's pretty good.

30:23.485 --> 30:25.087
[SPEAKER_00]: But you did also touch on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We mentioned a little bit about Quinn Matthews before, but I did want to ask a little bit about teen Ken's because if there was someone who took like he was a top 100 prospect last year, he's not this year, I feel like not just he took a step back, but I would say his role seems more likely to be less than what we thought it was going to be a year ago.

30:46.548 --> 30:48.910
[SPEAKER_00]: Like is he now more of likely a reliever?

30:50.662 --> 31:04.047
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think even the off the record internal conversations I have with Cardinals folks, that's tended to kind of be the overwhelming sentiment that you know, it's not like it's just arm injuries with him.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's legitimate where and tear across his frame.

31:07.846 --> 31:11.814
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think that he can handle a substantial amount of innings.

31:12.075 --> 31:20.734
[SPEAKER_01]: And since throwing 96 innings, which was a career high in 2023, he's really gone through the ringer.

31:20.914 --> 31:21.816
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's had

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[SPEAKER_01]: for different stints in the I.L.

31:26.231 --> 31:45.109
[SPEAKER_01]: including a 60 men, a 60 day injury, you know, I'll stint with a ribcage strain at the end of 2024 was really limited this year in terms of the number of endings that he could throw and how many endings he could throw in any given appearance.

31:45.129 --> 31:50.875
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I don't think it's totally like long term

31:50.855 --> 32:04.470
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to tell me in three years, four years he gets to a place they want to stretch him back out again and he's successful at that fine, but I think in the short term we're probably talking about a reliever unfortunately and the stuff is still really good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's just he's got to be on the mount.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's always the challenge with pictures.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But it is like we said, it is an improved Cardinal's farm system.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It better be because this is now, this is what this team is kind of built around now, right?

32:20.802 --> 32:27.831
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw, we've seen trades, we've seen kind of a little bit of a retrenchment at the big league level.

32:28.472 --> 32:33.319
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen a changeover to a new head of baseball operations in hindloom.

32:33.920 --> 32:37.905
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot that has changed here,

32:38.307 --> 32:41.215
[SPEAKER_00]: It does seem like the rival of J.J. Weatherhold.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The arrival of Porto Long of William Doyle.

32:43.601 --> 32:49.015
[SPEAKER_00]: The rival of, whether it's Leo Bernal, Jimmy Crooks, you have catchers who are not that far away.

32:49.035 --> 32:53.025
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, there's a multitude of players not that far away.

32:53.225 --> 33:12.567
[SPEAKER_00]: And that gives Cardinals fans kind of something to kind of hope for going into the second half of the 2020s in a way that has been not really all that true for less couple years and as we've had documented Cardinals fans are a little bit feisty and a little bit unhappy the fan the attendance at Cardinals games has seen.

33:12.547 --> 33:28.513
[SPEAKER_00]: A decline at a rate that we really don't see for pretty much almost anyone else in major league baseball other than maybe you want to throw in like you can really say the A's but you know the A's who are nomadic and and we could say the race but the race were playing in a

33:28.595 --> 33:29.877
[SPEAKER_00]: temporary stadium last year.

33:30.118 --> 33:42.662
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so with that is kind of the good news bad news cardals spoke with our short summary is that the farm system is definitely taking up lead by one of the best prospects and baseball, one of the best hitting prospects in the game.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Jeff and if you enjoyed this, check out we have deep dives on all

33:47.832 --> 34:01.068
[SPEAKER_00]: We're pushing along to get to all 30 MLB organizations to have them all up before really the MLB spring training games really get going up not going to promise you we have them up before the first spring training game, but we'll have them up very soon around them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We are working on putting up four of these a week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that we are now into the we have we have rounded we have now more than a third of the early done.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For a week means we will get there before too long and if you do enjoy this check out all the other content We have at the baseball market YouTube channel the baseball market podcast feed and also most importantly Obviously baseball America.com for Jeff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm JJ.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's along everybody