speaker-1 (00:00.856)
Hello and welcome to this new episode of the He Wants She Wants marriage podcast. Today we're going to give you the number one thing that will make your partner love your feedback. And if you're thinking, yeah, right, as if that was possible, you probably have experience like we have the, I want to give feedback, but I know it's going to ruin my date completely with my wife or with my husband.

giving feedback as an absolute no-go. We can't go there because that's going to be conflict or it's going to be a super long intense conversation of hours or there's going to be shut down, defensiveness. All in all giving feedback hasn't been a good experience in your life. So if that's your case

And if you also want to find a way to implement it as a beautiful enriching experience, what we're going to give you today in this episode is going to help with that.

Because we've experienced a lot of intensity when we were talking about feedback, when we were faced with the how do we give feedback to each other without going into conflict ultimately of in one way or another. So I'm going to pass it over to you because I know there's a lot that comes up with that.

Yeah, I remember my first experiment experimentation with receiving feedback from you. literally I think it was after some talk I had given in a gym many years ago and I went hey out of town how do you feel my presence was in relating with the people that night and

speaker-0 (01:51.254)
And remember you giving me feedback. was like, well, I'd put you out of four.

speaker-0 (02:00.652)
but you're at a four and it would have been at a two only for you try it. did this one thing. You said something like that. And on the inside, there was a passive aggressive part of me that was going, I'm asking this because I really thought I nailed. I thought it was like at a seven or an eight out of 10. I was a stinging. There was a sting to it. was four.

And you're telling me I would have been at a two only for I tried that one thing that you mentioned, but. It was a beautiful experience for me looking back, however, because it was the first time in marriage, I think we were, I don't know, we were 11 years in whatever amount of year. It was my first time to actually go to you and proactively seek out feedback, not, you know, wait in the background going.

I hope I'm doing okay. I'm hoping I'm appeasing you. I'm I hope I'm pleasing you. I hope I'm ticking all the boxes that you're asking of me and the 20,000 boxes that my wounded child's fearing the feminine with my mother growing up and just all of the woundedness. A part of my mind was 24 seven try to try to calculate how not to upset you. I was trying to meet needs.

that you weren't even wanting met, but I was trying to predict that anyway. All in all, was, I was living in terror feedback and that was the first experience. albeit there was this, there's almost this humorous part of me going, yeah, there, I was looking for a seven, eight out of 10. There was a grounding liberating experience in it going, okay. And it kicked off a conversation. like, okay, well, if I'm at four,

Well, what would make it seven or eight or nine out of 10, not four? So it really opened up a conversation that was never happening before. And that was totally different.

speaker-1 (04:08.302)
That's actually, it's interesting when you're saying that I did not remember this. But as you're bringing it up, it's coming back to memory.

There's a part of me that's like, ow, I gave you four? Like, that's terrible. But then there is also a part that you said it, it's like it was probably in around 11 years in and I never felt I could say something to you. And we are going to go into why that is and all of that, but this is not on you. It was

a game we were both playing, I was not feeling able or safe to actually tell you something that would be feedback. I hated receiving feedback and still parts of me don't particularly like it even now, I have to work with that. So there was a fear of giving it, a fear of receiving it.

which made it into, I'd say, the times that there was a chance to give it, it would be way harsher than it had to be. It was like, I'm getting a chance? He's asking, so I'm going to nail him on this. You know, I'm going to make this one chance that I'm getting count. And I think that's where the likes of a four or a two ends up coming out, because I've been bottling up all this.

what I think is constructive feedback, more or less. And now I get a chance to say it, so I'm going to make sure I'm just giving you the most cutting version of it that I can give you, because I really want you to get this kind of thing. So there is a load, there is actually in that four, there is a load of 11 years of... Don't say it. Or when I've said it, it hasn't been received.

speaker-1 (06:15.96)
Probably because I had landed it not in a very safe way, but that we didn't know all of this We didn't have all of that awareness at the time. We were doing what we had seen More or less was being done in our families of origin

Dear God, don't bring up the families of origin.

Which my experience in my own family of origin was like put downs and criticism and actually ridiculing everything that anyone does. That was my experience.

I think it had a different texture. I think it was just the texture was different than the volume, Italian volume and Irish volume. But the emotional signature of it was reeking in a lack of safety. I think we can both resonate with that. And I believe that's the problem for couples around the planet.

I've had hundreds, if not thousands of conversations with, with men, with husbands in my work the last number of years. And there is this, when you were speaking there, the idea that was coming to my mind metaphorically, it's like no man's land. Remember in World War, World War Two? one, I'm forgetting. It's where there was trench warfare.

speaker-0 (07:39.102)
One. Thank you. was doing the historical calculations. My history teacher would be disgusted with me now. World War One. So there is trench warfare and there's this idea that you're in the trenches your side and what can be the simple natural act of gifting feedback because you're in a team. It's the ultimate team. know, a married couple in a a healthy society.

family unit, that's the most important team in society. So it's a beautiful natural act in a team in marriage to give feedback. Hey, there's a growth opportunity. I think it'd be cool if you could hear this insight from me. But it doesn't play out like that in our nervous systems.

And hence I feel that it's because of that trauma is like Gabor Maté and I quote that quite often because there is a simplicity in it. Trauma is disconnection from authentic self. So when I know I was experiencing that with you for years, years, like I'd see things that you were saying or doing, not saying, not doing in marriage with the girls, etc, etc. I

felt like, okay, I have this thing, but I'm in this trench. Now I have to somehow figure out how to get through all of this barbed wire, how to go, not get shot, not have grenades, and get to the point where I land this insight, this simple thing I'm noticing, an awareness that I have of something that could be of benefit to you. That whole closure would take over my nervous system and I wouldn't land it.

Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (09:35.278)
And it would only get to the point where I'd either get so peed off with you and I'd landed myself or more often than not, I use it as cannon fodder. When you would finally be giving me feedback and you'd say, hey, you you're always late, whatever. Hey, you're being disrespectful. At that point, I'd be like, yeah, but...

And then I would cut my filing cabinet of resentment. Here's all the unspoken feedback that I haven't given to you in the last six or seven months. And we'd have this horrible mangled rest wrestle of like, I know three hours of horrible conversation that didn't really go anywhere. So conducive.

We feed the cycle of anytime I give you feedback, you don't receive it, but you're actually giving me back all the stuff that you, and we both did that to each other. You're bringing that up now as your example, but like I've done that a plenty, but I sort of wonder you've used the word gift in feedback and I'm kind of wondering how many people in the audience have gotten triggered just by that word. And my guess is.

A good 50 % that are the ones that are constantly getting feedback from their partners are like, oh, he's calling it a gift. Well, F that. And that's one part. And then the other ones are more the ones that, you know, you got to be humble on this, but you're the one that probably gives, tends to be the one that gives a little bit more feedback. Maybe you are seeing it as a gift, but it's interesting how that word, because you've used it, you went from giving

feedback to gifting and I was like, well, I'm sure you think it's a gift when you're giving it to me, but when I'm receiving it, I'm like, stinks. That's a really a gift. And that was actually really the dynamic where we what we're sharing with you today. We've turned this around pretty powerfully, but that was really the dynamic. I did not perceive it as a gift. It was a criticism, it's a fixing attempt. It was a

speaker-1 (11:47.682)
while you're seeing that in me, but you should see in yourself, that there was so much that could get triggered anytime. And as you said, it's a bloody minefield every time that you try. And the times that it seemed actually that it was received,

Usually there was like some kind of the person that was receiving, whether it was you or it was me, there was a, okay, you know what, I'm just going to put up and shut up on this and just give him, give him that one. I'll just, you know, yeah, you know what? yeah, Tony, you're right. I'm just going to, because I can't be bothered to have a three hours conversation. So I'm just going to go, yeah, okay, you know what, I'm just. I'll repress or suppress whether consciously or subconsciously, but I'm just going to shut this part down.

which then creates more resentment, creates ammunition that comes out in moments where it creates more conflict.

I feel that pattern was live for so many years, I 12 years. The fundamental change in my behavior started happening when I went to men's work and men's work for several years. Then I went to into a business mastermind, which these containers are foundationally set upon receiving feedback. I know pre that I had an allergic reaction to receiving it and

apart from those really sacred first steps with you. But men's work really helped me get what the benefit of receiving feedback was about. And that's when I started feeling that I was more sincerely seeking the feedback and seeking what was the diamond in the rough type element of it. It's like, yeah, okay, it doesn't have to be landed tidily, but I was really curious to get to that nugget that was in it.

speaker-0 (13:49.482)
And that started transforming the texture of our marriage. Definitely my side. just became more nourishing. And the more feedback I'd received, the better I could get at the game of marriage. was like, okay, well, there's the feedback. Well, you're not liking that and you're needing more of this or less of that. just totally just don't say things like that, Mark. And just don't do that because that doesn't work.

for you, doesn't work for us, for the girls. I became quite obsessive about that and the resisting of reading the difference between masculine grows by challenge, feminine grows through praise.

you

speaker-0 (14:37.42)
And I was, okay, well, that's it. Masking, I'm mask line. I need to take the challenge. And the only way I can give you feedback is praise. Now we can do a sub section or episodes on that. But it's important to note that principle. So I went off that principle with great gusto, great enthusiasm. And it led for a number of years and it was working.

up until the point at which and you know it and some of the guys that have been following my work for some time, I created what I call the fierce feminine feedback questionnaire. And for people that are listening in that haven't had the experience of filling it out or giving that tool to your beautiful wives, it's a radical feedback tool where

A husband gives it to his wife and a wife gets to score their husband on 30 different variables of how the husband is showing up. One to 10. page number four is, would you like to add anything else?

speaker-0 (15:52.438)
And I was so excited about that. I knew there's a great power in this. There was a part of me going, I don't think there's a tool like this out there that does that.

speaker-0 (16:06.286)
And I gave it to you. And then you gave me the feedback and I got like in the full percentages of the three different categories and 10 variables in it. You had me down to something like 52 % in presence, 51 % in protection. And I don't know, was like 60 % in progress. There was a real punch to it.

speaker-0 (16:33.066)
In the weeks that came after that, there was a rising feeling of, I'm receiving this.

but there's something really missing in my nervous system.

There's a bruising element in receiving feedback like that. And I found myself having to go to my introspective, to my cushion on my walks. And it's like rebuilding my self-esteem, building up my sense of personhood going, yeah, that's stinging feedback. You're feeling the sting, but you can be self-reliant in this. But I got to a point where it was like...

No, this just isn't right. I'm doing all of this to recognize myself. And it was when I did that episode where on Esther Perel, her work, where there's three fundamental causes of conflict. It's either an issue of priorities and power. That wasn't the thing. It's closeness and connection. That wasn't the thing. The third one rocked me to my core.

Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (17:42.732)
third cause of conflict in relationships comes down to respect and recognition. That struck me to my core. I was like, that's why my nervous system is reeling from receiving this feedback. I know it's so powerful. I want to do that as a man. I want to do that as a husband. I want to give you that tool and go, hey, strip me bare. I want to know where I need to grow. But I was really missing.

the sense of recognition. And I came to you in conversation and went, hey, I don't need your recognition. I can be self-reliant. I can build that, but I damn well want it. How was that distinction for you? The difference between me coming, I need your recognition. That was not on the table. How was that received by you? I don't need it, but I really want it.

Mm-hmm.

speaker-1 (18:25.869)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (18:39.746)
You're my queen, you're my goddess, you're the one woman on the planet. I want you to recognize me in my power.

I thought that was wonderful. actually really, there was no resistance in me in that. When we go back to filling up the fierce feminine feedback questionnaire, I actually was very resistant to fill it up. And I thought that there was a lack of safety, like maybe I'm not safe. What's this resistance about? There has to be like a lack of safety then. But it actually wasn't. And I remember giving it to you.

with those scores that were not very high and even saying to you they're based on different baselines.

It's like, I don't have anywhere to tell you that the reason why I'm scoring you like this is because you are that amazing and you've set some powerful baselines that is like, this is like an opportunity for growth is not actually a resentful wife just going, okay, you know what, I'm just gonna.

nail you because we had done work on that already and I didn't feel like I was at that point. So when you came down, now I didn't, I'm saying it so eloquently right now, of course I didn't have, it's like the, you join the dots at the end kind of thing. So when you came down and you went, what's missing? Because you didn't say to me, your feedback is crap. You didn't go all reactive on it.

speaker-1 (20:20.138)
Actually, you made a couple of jokes, I think, at the beginning when you got it, you were like, whoa, that was like, was expecting something a bit better, but okay. But there wasn't a sting in that towards me, which felt safe. But it was a genuine human need of, yeah, I get what you're saying, but tell me why I'm doing good. I have a need for that.

of course then that can also go back into well as a child I didn't get much in my family I didn't get much and that's okay I didn't get much either so there's an understanding there but but it is an actual genuine need that goes beyond what trauma we've been having it's like the person you love you're accepting the feedback but the recognition I remember like we we actually started doing it as a

or just, you know, it brought my awareness. actually brought my awareness to where can I consciously bring that? And so you've probably guessed at this point that the one thing that is going to make your partner love your feedback is recognition. That's we're getting to that. Like that recognition is going to make your partner love your feedback, receive your feedback. That's the thing that we've added to the formula.

actually only in recent months, really this conversation that we're talking about was maybe seven months ago or something like that. But it has made a massive difference.

And it makes sense because I study leadership psychology all the time. I love reading about sports managers, particularly that lead other teams because that's it's leadership of family, leadership of groups of people, leadership of men's circles online, etc, etc. And so I've been really fascinated by that. All great leaders embody both. Fierce direct feedback.

speaker-0 (22:23.478)
I mean, if you're a top end sports person, if you're a political leader, if you're a CEO of a company, you must develop the skill to be blunt and direct, not to sugarcoat it, to land it really directly. Hey, I need less of that. I need more of that. I need none of that. Can you upskill in this? It's that, you know, you need to be really clear. So the person that

is in your organization, whether that's a family, whether that's a sports club, whether that's a business, it does not matter any bunch of people. So there's that need. But in any social group of people, if that's the only thing that dominates, it falls apart.

Yeah.

The greatest leaders in sports, I'm thinking Alex Ferguson, Manchester United won everything. Some people, maybe stateside mightn't get that, Europeans would get like super successful. One of the most successful football managers ever on the European scene. Phil Jackson, stateside, Chicago Bulls, and then after that, the LA Lakers. I think the most successful basketball coach. They were incredible with the feedback, but boy, boy, they double down in

in letting people know where they were nailing it. They made sure that they took

speaker-0 (23:51.426)
their players to the side and individually on a one to one basis. They got to know the temperament, the character of the person who they were speaking with. What was most meaningful to reflect back to that person so that they were building their confidence and ultimately keeping that sacred balance. What we're talking about is fierce feedback and radical recognition. When you have those in balance,

Yes.

Any organism on the planet is going to thrive. We're clearly talking about a social organism and its family, family unit, marriage unit.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it can be, like, there can be the thing, like, there's two ways of looking at it. You can go with, my God, are they telling me there is one more thing I have to practice with my partner? Should there be all this effort? Should I have to do all of these things? That's one way to look at it. And the other way to look at it is, well...

This is one more tool of connection that you get to add to your toolbox. It's one more amazing practice that you can bring that's actually going to build a beautiful relationship. It's going to nourish the relationship. It's going to bring fuel because as you were saying when you were talking about the coaches, it's like you can give feedback and you can actually be very direct. So there are times that I'm actually

speaker-1 (25:23.81)
that we both are depending on the situation. We can be very direct with each other. You've done that with me. Sometimes I could have spoken out of terms to the girls. Maybe I'm a bit cold in my head and you're like, well, that's just not you don't. I need you to shut up right now and just breathe and then speak to the girls from a different place. And that's very direct in that moment. But there's been so many times that you tell me, you're such a great mother in the way you've done that. You're such a great mother in the way you've done that other thing in the way you've

whatever there is. So there is a filling up of the tank of recognition that then prepares for the times where you gotta be a bit direct.

Because the moment requires that. again, where feedback is going to be a topic that we're going to be doing more than one episode on because it's such an important thing. So we're going to go into that more and more and more and clarify a lot about that. But that's what these people that you were talking about were doing. It's like in their team building, they are constantly filling that tank of making the person feel seen and recognize for the things that they're actually doing good.

And then there's the moments where you have to be a little bit direct, but you can afford to do that because that beautiful reservoir is full. Where we go on like so many, well, we've had that ourselves, but I know I see it in my own work with the women that I've done so far. And I know you've witnessed that. We go all on empty.

all the time, like so many of us go on empty. There is no recognition, no recognition, no recognition. And then on top of that, there's the feedback because you have to be, you you need to be able to receive it so you get it. But that's like a slap at that point on top of something that's already empty.

speaker-0 (27:25.976)
The one thing I want people at home to really lock in on is a recognized partner will love receiving your feedback. A recognized partner will see your feedback as a gift. Because when you think about these teams, why is it that this works? Fierce feedback.

Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (27:51.508)
with a foundation of radical recognition, why it works. Think about it as kids. All of human psychology, if you bring it back to what we naturally embodied as kids, you know, it's like when you're playing a game. mean, marriage is a game. If you know the rules, it doesn't feel like a game because we start, we were not enjoying it and because of our wounds. But when you're playing life like a game as a kid, there's that simplicity.

when you're playing a game.

You want the challenge. You want the feedback. you don't score a goal. Nobody cheers when you do that. That's the fierce feedback.

but you want the recognition. Oh, you scored a goal, yeah. So it spurs you on. So you go through, you'll go through any challenge to get to the point where, oh, hey, am I like high five or, know, well done and wow, that was amazing. So it's this upward spiral. Now you bring that into a family unit. I know since we have brought this in as a combined practice.

Me bringing receiving the feedback. Yeah, things were slowly but surely getting better and there was a certain improvement, but it was like there was a ceiling to it. What I have found in the last five, six months since we've really established a balance and we're both practicing it is the emotional set point of our family is rising and rising and rising. Not without periods. We spoke in their early New Year.

speaker-0 (29:33.314)
Hey, there was there was a period of time that was pretty intense. However, it's that emotional set point of the entire family rises a little bit happier, a little bit healthier, a little bit more positive, a little bit more enthusiastic. And what has happened from there is there's a little bit more expression. There's a little bit more expansion. There's more progress. Every single one of us in our family unit.

Since we've got that dynamic going so powerfully, there's more and more expression and expansion happening and like that's where the fun happens.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and even in that period that you were talking about that was intense, well, ultimately, it would have been a million times more intense without the recognition. We practiced that like crazy in that period.

There is moments of, you know, we spoke to it, glitches, things, things are not working, whatever. We're going through some emotional intensity, but there was always a, well, I actually see the efforts you're making. I really see the progress you've made. I really see you're doing your best. We go back to the agreement. I really see you're playing poorly well. All of those are moments of recognition. Which brings us to, well, I don't know, are we?

Good to go with that. Like how do I do that? How do I? Okay, so I've heard you about recognition. I've heard that a recognized partner receives my feedback. It's gonna love receiving my feedback. I heard that I can view it as a chore or I can actually view it as a fueling of connection. How do I give this feedback? And we have three ways that are the three main ways that we implement the bringing feedback into our everyday life.

speaker-1 (31:24.684)
Will I go? Will you go?

Over you're in the flow, you're in the flow, but I'm not gonna stop you

So the first one is what we just mentioned. It's actually just bringing it into everyday life. And at the beginning, it's a little bit of a conscious decision. And then it gently becomes actually part of the culture of your family, part of a habit. But it's used in any occasion you can see to actually recognize your partner. don't know. You cooked dinner last night.

was like, what a lovely dinner. And you say it's, it's not just an assumption or a giving for granted, but like I see you've really cooked a beautiful dinner. Thank you for it. That's a moment of recognition. it's making the other person feel valued and seen in that moment. And that feels the tank goes into that bank account of recognition.

It's you can't overcook recognition. That's a really important thing. And in many senses, if it is dried up, that's going to be one thing. It's like dried up. might feel like it's coming natural. You got to dig deep. got to dig deep. You got to go over beyond the story of, well, for 20 years, well, for 12 years, well, for 35 years, you know, whatever. At some point.

speaker-1 (32:35.31)
Mm.

speaker-1 (32:47.822)
Mm-hmm.

you were recognizing the other person. It's guaranteed. Two people can't come together and get married if there isn't recognition. Early days, dating days. you look amazing in that. that's so funny. You know, like the recognition of the humor. then at some point and many different reasons and woundings and we're going to unpack that going forward. Why the the doors get shut on it. But at some point, there was a flow of recognition. There is no exception to that.

No matter what your story is now, at one point there was a beautiful flow of recognition and it's rekindling that, remembering that and making the effort. But there's plenty of opportunity, plenty. That's been a humbling thing for me. It's like, wow, I actually love having it as a bit of a game. It's like, how many times can I recognize from the mundane? And one thing what I find in that part of our practice of recognition is

Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (33:48.204)
The most obvious one for me was when you're quote unquote, you're getting it right. wow. You actually, look really lovely right now. I love that top and you. I love how you've dressed. It's just spontaneous and it just feels natural and right to say that. other part that was missing my nervous system was recognizing you in atypical moments when you're challenged.

That is so duration.

What I'm talking about is like moments when you're under weather, you're not in good form. You might have actually been, you know, off with the girls, but to go. What can I recognize in you in that moment? You know, let's say being off with the girls. Hey, I see you.

trying to play poorly while with the girls. I see you digging deep because I know the day you've had. I see you in that challenge. It's a really key one. You don't just recognize the so-called very obvious when your partner is getting it right. See them in the challenge. See them in the coming home, you know,

Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (35:09.998)
in the evening after a full day's work. And yeah, you've had your whole day as well. But can you recognize them in a moment? And they might come in and they might not look you in the eye. They might not greet you the way you'd ideally want to be greeted. But can you see and recognize the powerful man or the powerful woman in that moment and go, hey, I see you.

my powerful man coming in after being out on the day, you know, dedicated to earning money for this, for making a living and, you know, paying off the mortgage of our sacred home. see your power and whatever equivalence can be for the divine feminine. It's a really key practice distinction for me.

Yeah, what comes to mind when you said you can't overcook recognition, well, you can overcook dinner, which has happened many times. And it's like, well, you can recognize the efforts you can recognize. Thank you for for doing that. Thank you for.

I can see that there was a lot going on and you had a lot on your plate and we've had plenty of that. The cats to feed, the dogs to feed, the horses to feed, the rice gets overcooked. I know I would have been, I have done it plenty of times to go, this rice is overcooked. That's like hacking. It's actually that reservoir that we're trying to build gets hacked by a comment like that. And I know I've done plenty of times so, but.

But instead you can actually, that's the challenging moment. And it's great to be able to bring recognition when you're seeing that your partner is being challenged and you're actually recognized. But it's a practice to actually bring recognition when you're being challenged. Because if I'm starving and I've had quite a full day and I come to the dinner table to an overcooked rice, I can actually feel...

speaker-1 (37:10.056)
extremely challenged and wanting to go, my God, can you not do anything right? Which is not actually true, but it's that can come out. So be able to go, okay. Yeah, that's a thought, but can I actually bring recognition to this? That's a practice. And at the beginning, it definitely requires effort. had to make a massive amount of effort at the beginning to bring that in that way. My, because in my family, the default was

speak whatever and so that was the pattern I learned. So this is the first step.

That's first way. It's the first way of learning in the moment when something happens. The second part, the second way of learning it is informal practice. We're speaking that

Yeah.

speaker-0 (38:05.122)
formal practice with couples in coaching or in the community. That's where you there's a whole art to setting a conscious intimate container between partners. It's like you can go for 10 minutes, you can go for 20 minutes. It's like going to the gym, I suppose, without giving the details, because this is not the time and place to describe that. But it's like going to the gym. It's like you want to play.

football while you go to the gym and you intensely train your nervous system to be strong, to be fit, to be athletic so that when you hit the pitch, it comes naturally. Structured practice is that idea. You go to the gym for 10 minutes, 20 minutes, you work out your nervous system in the art of recognition. And there is that part. I think that was a.

The structure practice for me has really helped me deepen the amount of language that I bring to it, where I was doing it before. To a point it was I found it was almost behavior based. you know, you're looking amazing now. Like that spontaneous when you're looking amazing. If there's an act that you've done, there's a behavior that you have enacted cooking dinner. you did whatever you did. Brilliant with the girls. You navigated the conflict you were.

underneath it, it's to tap into the like the virtues that your partner is embodying. What's the part of their character that for me, the formal practice really has expanded my repertoire of being able to see you and go, wow, it's like words like courage comes up, your discipline, your tenacity, all your compassion. You know, I see your empathy there. I see. this whole

ocean of wow-ness. I don't have another word for it. I'm like that practice of recognition is like, wow, I'm, I'm just in the presence of the most extraordinary woman on the planet. Wow. The more I do this, the more I recognize, am I just the luckiest man on the planet? And that's, I find that's beautiful. I know before recognition, before this conscious practice.

speaker-0 (40:24.18)
As a masculine practitioner, I was relying upon sort of like this stoic, I can get my shit together. I can discipline my own mind, which is a wonderful thing as a man to be able to do as a husband, as a father, you do need to build that muscle. This does not take away from it. And yet it's also true. I'm loving the recognition practice because it just

It works my nervous system out to see wow. It eradicates the mundane same shit, different dayness where we unwillingly take for granted this sublimely beautiful person that we have in front of us. And like, what a tragedy when that happens. We shift to the.

The third one, the third one, which is you can pepper in recognition before you're giving feedback. And again, we said it before. That doesn't mean that you cannot give direct feedback. You're building a bank account of recognition, so you can actually give that feedback. But you know, the rice is overcooked. I see the amazing efforts you've made tonight to create this lovely dinner for us. Thank you so much.

I would really love live next time. You could remember to put a timer for the rice.

The cook rises a thing for you. I actually... There could be, well I don't know, maybe I'm buying... There could be 90 % of...

speaker-1 (41:54.03)
don't even think you've ever done it. I don't even think you've ever overcooked rice. It's purely because everybody-

Say it that much! The overcooking rice is your thing! It's not! It's-

Because you said earlier you can't overcook the recognition and it came to me the whole overcooking dinner. Probably I actually know I have overcooked rice a good few times. So I don't know why that came as a thing. But that's just the thing. I'm not being passive aggressive here. There isn't even a thing in our family of overcooking rice. But it was a cool example. Overcooking whatever. Maybe I'm Italian overcooking pasta would have been more appropriate.

But like literally it's just giving that little bit. It's not actually using a manipulation technique or being passive aggressive. I'm going to give them a treat and then I'm going to hack them. That's really not what we're talking about here because I know that that's a question that can come up, especially in my audience of daughters of narcissistic mothers, which have been at the receiving end of.

she's given me the praise and now she's gonna hack my legs. And I get it. This is really not, this is a conscious practice of, I'm gonna pause. I am gonna consciously bring my attention to something that you've done that I can actually recognize because I am consciously wanting to do this. This comes from seeking connection and wanting to nourish in that connection. And in that is also true that there is room for improvement and there is a safety of saying that.

speaker-1 (43:30.614)
So that's the third way, like consciously when it's possible, when that's available to you consciously, when you know that you're going to give feedback, especially on something I actually, I think there is a reason why I brought the cooking because for you, there's been plenty of times that I was over controlling around the kitchen. my God, over controlling. I was the only one that could do it right. And for ages, that has been a thing. You were coming from.

past with your mother, with your family, not being able to actually be given the space. And when you did cook dinner, giving or receiving feedback, that was actually one point that could cause quite a bit of upsetting you, quite a bit of conflict. So as a partner, I know that that's an area that's actually particularly sensitive area for you. So if I have to give feedback on that, it's worth it for me to actually take a moment and go,

Where can I praise you? Where can I actually recognize you? And then I'm also going to give feedback. Because that's where the sensitivity, that's where knowing your partner and this is what we're practicing with all the formal practices in the community and in the coaching, we're bringing that. It's like, this doesn't happen overnight. You build it and you build it and you build it so that you know when you're going to use what and how.

Yeah, I feel in our practice of it. The momentum that we have in building that culture of regular daily recognition, it's happening all the time. I don't know how many times during the day there is. A subtle recognition to an explicit recognition and everything in between.

Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (45:15.694)
I feel there's a sweet spot and the sweet spot is you have the recognition so set in the culture and it takes time. put in the effort, but the effort you put in. The rewards and the benefits that your marriage would experience and you yourself. I want married life to be easier. I don't like pain and suffering. I don't like to our arguments.

I don't like two days when I'm feeling locked off and feeling close to you, no matter how righteous my head can tell. I just don't like that. I like it when it's in flow and I believe everybody likes it when it's in flow. So the effort that you put in, the benefits are far outstripping. I think it's like a thousand fold what you get back compared to the energy and the effort that you need to, to invest to get this up and going.

really starts being swimming well and it's that one point. It's that one simple point. A recognized partner will love receiving your feedback and when they love receiving your feedback they're going to act on your feedback and you're going to be happier, they're going to be happier. They're going to know, this is how I win, my partner tells me when I'm winning.

And even when I'm not winning, they see the part that I'm winning anyway, because I'm making an effort. then when I I'm a little bit off to tell me, hey, you're not quite winning there, but here's some feedback. And wow, what a family team you've got going. What a marriage. It's a really beautiful dynamic.

So practice recognition. That's it. That's really that's the one thing.

speaker-0 (47:02.818)
Yeah, so we'll come into landing with that. This has been episode number three.

For those of you at home to support us getting the new podcast out there, if you can like, if you can comment, if you can share it with your friends, you know how social media, how life works in this moment, whatever action you can take now to help us get this out to other people, it helps the algorithms, et cetera, et cetera. That would be really, really appreciated.

Like, share, review, subscribe. And thank you for that.

troops.

speaker-0 (47:44.066)
Baby, this has been awesome. This has been amazing. Thank you everybody at home for listening in to episode number three. You can look forward to episode number four coming really soon shortly after this. And yeah, until the next episode. Go dare.

Get what you want. Get what you want. Bye.

Bye guys!