Blake Hunsley 0:00
Hello and Welcome to Season Two of within our reach, a podcast all about accessibility, inclusion and leveling the playing field at work and in our community. I'm Blake Hunsley, and I'm joined by my co host, Shelley Alward McLeod, and today our guest is entrepreneur, app developer and founder of trek. Is it trek IQ or trek.iq Yeah.

Avery Cote 0:18
So I kind of real like I it's supposed to be Trek.IQ, but then I now, when I hear people talk about it, they do the dot, and I'm like, Oh, maybe I should get rid

Blake Hunsley 0:26
of that. I've done both. So I thought I should interrupt my own introduction and ask, but let's, let's get to you, and you can tell us all about Avery Cote Avery, thank you for coming on the show today. It's a pleasure to have

Avery Cote 0:34
you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank

Blake Hunsley 0:36
you. So why don't, I guess, let's start at the beginning. Why don't you tell folks listening what trek IQ is, and then we can kind of explain your partnership with ReachAbility and what we've gotten through to get us to today.

Avery Cote 0:47
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, kind of the pitch that we, that we, we often say when we talk about the app, is that we're operating operation. We need to cut that part out.

Blake Hunsley 1:01
Cut that part out, which makes

Avery Cote 1:03
it fun. We we operationalize accessibility data for both the consumer, but also we're now kind of tapping into the B to B side, the business to business. So we're giving folks in the community tools to navigate. I mean, we're starting in Halifax, so to navigate Halifax, and specifically to get to events or get to spaces that they may have otherwise avoided due to uncertainty. Now, on the B to B side, we're equipped. We're giving businesses the tools they need to track accessibility metrics in real time, and then we're also able to. That we're able to let that data trickle down to the consumer so they'll be able to see things like crowd density, at at at businesses. And we're also implementing like a street to seat navigation tool, which would be so I mean, particularly, particularly in the live event sector, we're going to be able to navigate folks from where they are in the city directly to the seat in a venue or a concert or so on and so forth.

Blake Hunsley 2:12
Fantastic. And we talked to when you first came here to reach him. We'll talk about our partnership here in a little bit, but about how this is also going to help people navigate. So if one of the things we hear a lot of from our clients is a lot of frustration over construction work, suddenly closing sidewalks in the city are making their route much less accessible. So this will have real time data from, ideally, from the city and from other partners to they can be reported to end users, so they can look on this just like you would on. I find it funny. We have this. We have so many apps that tell me, Oh, you're driving local listeners will hopefully know what I'm talking about. You're driving the new bridge, as opposed to the old bridge. You want to stop that because there's an accident. We don't have that for someone with particularly a physical disability, saying, Hey, your sidewalk is closed. Hey, this route you cannot see has changed without any notice to you. So there's definitely, I would say, an appetite out there in the city for this app. Is that what you're hearing so far, now that you've had some focus groups and talked to some potential users, is there an appetite there for this that you're hearing?

Avery Cote 3:12
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean, so our our version one, like our first prototype, was mainly focused on navigating Halifax and just like, as an everyday journey. So like, you're going to the bus stop, and I mean, that component is still there, and then with that, like it has the it will have, like, real time updates for construction, sidewalk closures, so on and so forth. But what we've identified is that there's a large number of folks, and particularly with folks with disabilities, who are actually avoiding avoiding events that will will improve their quality of life because of the accessibility uncertainty. So that's where the B to B piece came in and shifted her focus slightly, but the core mission is still there around navigation.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 4:06
Okay, so this is very interesting, and I think much needed. I was just thinking about an event I was to at the Rebecca Cohen the other night, and there were quite a group of people that were in wheelchairs and watching, I was a bit horrified, right? Because there was some construction going on, and nobody could figure out how to get them in the building. And I'm like, thinking to myself, like, how must it feel like to be coming to that event and not knowing and the people running the event, it's like they forgot. So this sounds like a very good So what made you get involved in this navigating accessibility?

Avery Cote 4:50
Yeah, so I guess this is kind of a two fold answer, so I have the lived experience piece. I mean, not me, personally. I don't have, I guess I don't consider myself to be someone living with a disability. I do have, like, some mental health challenges that I I've worked through. I mean, I still live with it day to day, but I guess I don't necessarily like consider myself someone with a disability

Blake Hunsley 5:16
yet, as we like, if you're lucky enough to live long enough, you will be one day. And you

Avery Cote 5:20
know what? It's interesting you say that because that's kind of because that's kind of as we're as we're pitching this to people. That's kind of the point we're trying to push. And sorry, I'll get back to your question this. That's great. But we love going. We love so on, on the mental health piece. I have a bit of ADHD, if you couldn't tell so but, yeah, we what was I just saying? We can cut that part. Yeah, let's cut that part. Just repeat that question, and then I just need to

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 5:56
laugh, because I was like, you had already asked him early on to cut a piece. I was just thinking, if you could, we should have an outtakes that only, like select people can come that have a really good sense of humor, because there are some things that we have to cut out because we just get way.

Blake Hunsley 6:15
Like, yeah, it seems like you're implying we've been inappropriate. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, exactly.

Avery Cote 6:22
So how did I Yeah? I think it was, how did I get Yeah, yeah. And you were

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 6:25
talking more about your mental health challenges and how that, how that got you, yes, made you, you know, start thinking about the long term, like, why you felt you didn't have any physical disabilities or any disabilities, then you launched into your disability. Okay, that's

Blake Hunsley 6:45
right, we were talking about if you live long enough that you will have a disability, and selling it, that's what it was. This is kind of a self serving, sort of future proofing thing.

Avery Cote 6:52
Okay, I'll take it from the top there, I guess. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, Blake said something interesting, that if you live long enough you you will probably have a disability. And that's kind of how we're trying to pitch this is that there's obviously, I mean, it's not a small group, it's 26 or 27% of the population that that's folks that that identify with having a disability. But the piece that we're trying to really drive is that being able bodied is a very temporary state in our lives. Yes, and it, it can happen so quickly. And I mean, that's kind of how we're trying to get people to understand that this is really a very important issue that we need to solve, and we have the technology to solve it, so let's go out and do it now. Why I kind of embarked on this mission is I had the lived experience with my grandmother, my great grandfather. So my grandmother, she's fostered individuals with disabilities for most of her life, and still does to this day. And my great grandfather was Canadian veteran. He contracted polio when he was serving, and he lost his mobility like very, very young. I mean, if you you know, like folks, you weren't 18 when you went to when you went into the military. So he was quite young. So he lived a very large portion of his life not being able to walk. So I those two generational experiences, I guess, kind of shape the way I view the world and the built environment and accessibility in general. Now how I started building the app. So I'm very involved with a nonprofit organization called Enactus Canada, and they are, they essentially equip post secondary students with entrepreneurial skills to drive social and economic change in their communities, in their countries, in the world, and a lot of it is aligned with the sustainable development goals. So I mean, we're kind of aligned. We're on sort of more of a social mission, but we're still for profit, but with the social piece, and they ran a competition, and in partnership with a software company called Bentley systems, and we entered, we I entered that, and that's kind of where this idea started. So we built the first prototype. I mean, we went through. It was a six week sprint where we started with an idea and ended with a product. So that was our very first prototype, and we actually were recognized as top five projects in Canada. So we took that and, I mean, we just kind of ran with it. We started iterating, started talking with with the community, and I know we'll talk about it throughout the episode, but that's how I got involved with Blake and ReachAbility, and we just haven't looked back since, and now we're really on this mission to figure this out.

Blake Hunsley 9:47
Well, it's funny because you came in, I wish I had a better memory, but again, ADHD goes all around here. So no, I honestly don't remember how we started interacting the very first time, but as soon as we did talk the first. Time, it was very apparent that you were coming with a solution to a problem that I hear about every single day working here with you know, if you're if you're new to this podcast, the vast majority of our clients at reachability have disabilities, not all of them physical, but I would say well over half have physical disabilities. And the stories that we hear every day like we're very lucky that the city is growing at the rate it is. It's a good thing. The city has been stagnant for some time. It's nice to see some growth, but oh my god, the growing pains. If you think they're tough on you and you're listening to this as an able bodied person, just take take a beat and imagine what it's like. I mean, one of our board members and a good friend and previous guest on the show, Milena, has been in to talk to us constantly about the fact that she is fully blind, and her regular routes around her own little neighborhood in the north end are completely impeded every other day, and there's no real mechanism from the city to let folks know about this. So you said something that really piqued my interest. You said the technology already exists, and this is something I find incredibly frustrating, is that we seem to be very keen to use technology to make commutes easier for people who drive, but we really don't think beyond that, and we certainly don't think about using technology as often as I would like to assist people with disabilities. A lot of the new tech I see going into these new buildings, going up, for example, are flat screen technologies that don't have any voiceover for say, accessing an intercom system in our apartment. It's completely unusable by a blind person, so we've just used technology to bypass a large group of people instead of helping them. So when you came in the door saying, Hey, I'm developing an app, and I'd actually like to help some people you know around here, very, very keen to hear that now, and we've been focusing on the physical disabilities. I keep talking about blindness, because again, we do hear these navigation challenges a lot with all the sidewalk closures in particular. But I can imagine for myself as someone with anxiety and ADHD, I don't love going into a place not knowing what sort of crowd I'm about to encounter. Some days, it can be really helpful to know if I'm going to go into a store with far too many people, as I would see it. So that would really appeal to me as someone with non physical disabilities. What sort of range of disabilities are you looking at now, at this product serving at this stage,

Avery Cote 12:11
we're taking a holistic approach. I like to think, I mean, it's going to be a gradual, gradual process as we continue to develop, but our first, like beta version, we're looking at components of cognitive disabilities, mobility, disabilities, vision and then hearing. Those are sort of the main, I think, main groups that we're we're we're trying to figure out a solution for and I mean, I always say, and I've been very upfront about it with the folks I've been talking about is that I'm not, I'm not trying to be like the hero, saving the world and saving everyone like I it's a very collaborative development process that I'm trying to, trying to follow with, and that's where our partnership comes in. But we, I think every iteration we make is a step, another step in the right direction. And folks were just really happy to we're just really happy to know that someone is working in the space. So, yeah, we through conversation, we identified those four kind of sectors as really important to provide a solution for. And then also it's, it's, it's, it's difficult, in the sense where you can have two individuals who who are visually impaired, but the degree may vary what they need versus what this person needs is different. So we're taking a holistic approach, but we're going to continue to refine as we learn more and as we gather more data, right? That's great.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 13:53
So in talking, in talking about what you're, what you're doing, which is, I'm I'm loving every moment of what you're saying. Would you say that there's challenges that are unique to Halifax, or are most cities facing the same challenges?

Avery Cote 14:14
You know, that's an interesting thing to look at, because, I mean, you would think that a larger city may have and, I mean, I mean, of course, Halifax has more barriers than, like a small town, like where I came from, where I grew up, Fredericton, New Brunswick, town of 50,000 people. I mean, obviously we're not looking at, we're not looking at the same scale of barriers, I guess. But what we're trying to challenge, and why we're looking more on the B to B side is because we really need to challenge the thought process and the mindset around accessibility, and I think that's where we're all of these issues are stemming from, not that they don't care, but they it's not top of mind, right? And that's so like and so I think that's why we see it from city to city, whether we're talking about. About Los Angeles, California, over talking about Stewiacke. You know what? I mean? Like it, it's the mindset, and it's the it's this isn't top of mind for some folks. And I, I said something during the session we did with mental health, or during the story the Human Rights Yeah,

Blake Hunsley 15:21
yeah, that Nova Scotia human rights week, that's right. Yes,

Avery Cote 15:23
that. I think that I could also make the same kind of mistakes as some of the as some city planners do, because it's not always. I mean, it's top of mind for me, because it's when I'm building this is the space that I'm in, but if I wasn't in the space, I think that I could probably make those same mistakes that some city officials are making, because it wouldn't necessarily be top of mind for me, and that, I mean, without my experience, and without where I'm building, I feel like that could be something, that that could happen, and not that I'm making excuses for people, because I don't think that it's right, and that's what we're trying to change. We're trying to change. But it all goes back to that core mindset and how it's not top of mind

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 16:08
well, and I think that's a good point, like when you're talking about that. And Blake was giving the example of, like, an apartment building that thinks they've done a great job of putting this visual panel up there right, which likely helps some people, okay, but it's missing a whole group of people. I think, I think that's, you're right, like, it's not top of mind, but how do we get it, you know? How do we get it top of mind? And that goes for everything from an accessibility like, you know, it I was, you know, I'll share a little story about accessibility that just happened yesterday. I needed to post something on social media, okay for a community group that I belong to, and I was like, Oh, I think I'm supposed to put, like, some wording to this graphic. How do I do that? I've never done that before, yet I could, like, make pictures and diagrams in Canva, like that would blow your mind. I'm like, a graphic designer, right? Like Canva has made me, like, this fantastic graphic person, right? But I had no idea how to do this, so I had some time. So I poked around, like, to see and sure enough, there, when I went into more and some things in it, and then it guided, it was like, super easy. And I'm like, wow, but I use that as an example, because likely, when we're training people how to use a variety of things, we're not training them on that piece, like Canva training you to be great, to build whatever you want, but it's not then giving you that next piece, which is, then, how do you make it accessible to all, like, just as an example. So I'm thinking that, like from the city planners, like, how much training do they have? Like in the field, that one right, inaccessibility for all, like disability, like you talked about four different areas. I think we spend a lot of time, you know, thinking about physical access, right? But what about visual, hearing and cognitive.

Blake Hunsley 18:19
This is why I was so ReachAbility excited when you came in Avery and we came up with the idea of doing this focus group here with clients of who do live locally here in the city and who have disabilities as well, because one of the drums that we bang around here all the time is nothing about us, without us. You cannot be making decisions that impact people with disabilities without asking for their input. And one of the first things you said to me was, I don't want to be making these decisions without asking the people who know. And I just about gave you a round of applause as you were here on a video call with me in my office. I was very excited to hear that. The other thing, one of the things I say a lot around here, and it sounds offensive, and I apologize, but it's never a tribute to malice, what you can attribute to stupidity. And the nicer way to phrase that is that nobody is coming up with bad intentions and making bad policy. It's that people don't think about the needs of people with disabilities until unfortunately, and I say this as someone, oddly enough, also with an immediate relative who got polio. So that doesn't come up, but

Avery Cote 19:19
it's something that you don't know. It's not usually that you

Blake Hunsley 19:24
Polio is not a buzzword, but it's one that our families share in common, yeah. But for most people, unless you have personal lived experience, or you have someone immediately in your family or a very close friend, it's not going to be top of mind. So working in a field where it is always top of mind, when I have someone come in from another field entirely, and they're saying, hey, this I'm having some thoughts. I just want to make sure I started exactly the right place. Well, hallelujah, welcome to the room. Thank you for being here asking. I wish we had more city planners coming in and asking those sort of things so we did have not to throw too much shade on the city, because we do have some guests coming up this season from the city as well, who were very excited. To have on. But no, we were really excited that you wanted to do a focus group. So we did have a focus group here, the first one to kind of show some folks what the idea was, what the plans were from the future, and hear what their thoughts were on the challenges facing Halifax in particular. What were your takeaways from the focus group? Because you met with I think we had four or five people in that day to meet with you, maybe more, I can't recall, but, yeah, just sit down and spend an hour with you and tell you what their needs were and their thoughts were. So what were your what were your big takeaways from that?

Avery Cote 20:33
Yeah, I mean, it was, it was a great experience, and it's something that we identified early on, that we we had to do in order to make a solution that that works for everyone. I'm all about trying to get a deeper understanding, and I think that's why we're seeing some of the decisions where some we're seeing some of the decisions made, is because the that deep understanding doesn't exist. So I knew that I didn't want to make those mistakes, and I had to adopt that mindset. So yeah, the focus group is phenomenal experience. Not only did I get to be in the same room as these folks and really, really hear their stories. And I mean, I will say it was a little difficult for me, because I had to adopt the listen more than I talk kind of approach when I said ADHD, so that's tough for us both, and sometimes that's not my strong suit. So yeah, it was a challenge, I guess, professionally, to to to listen more than I talked, but I'm glad I did, because it gave me such an immersive experience. And I mean, I came in with, like, a survey, and we I got everyone to fill the survey, but then we, and my plan was to then, like, do a demo of the app. We didn't actually get there, because the conversation was so rich, and we we actually went over time. We were, like, it was like, almost 90 minutes, and we all just sat around the table and we just talked, and we talked from we talked about the accessibility, like actually using the app, all the way to particular businesses that don't have a great track record for accessibility. So it was a quite a wide range of topics that we talked about. But I left feeling really, I mean, really validated, that that the idea was something that that folks really see value in, and I'm hoping that that the participants felt very empowered.

Blake Hunsley 22:31
They showed up for they showed up for free, on their own time the next week to talk more about this. So, yes, I would say excited. Yeah, that's great. Which I do want to put in a little plug there too, the folks who came in to give their first that their first person lived experience expertise is people with disabilities navigating the city. Yes, they were compensated for that time. We do not believe in using people as free consultants here at ReachAbility. So I just want to throw that out.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 22:55
I wanted to ask you, if were you shocked by the information that they shared in the focus group, or surprised?

Avery Cote 23:09
Yes and no, I think, I think it validated a lot of the assumptions that I had already made, but knew that I couldn't act on my assumptions. I had to validate them. What was interesting for me is that I just got a first hand perspective. So like, Yeah, nothing like in particular shocked me, but it deepened the the assumptions that I had already made by getting that first, that firsthand experience. So I'll give you an example. I like, I mean, I was really focused on, like, the mobility side and and then some, some like, like, hearing and vision impairments. But the the focus group was mainly made up of folks with visual impairments. So it gave me, it gave me an opportunity to really dial into that particular sector that I don't have a lot of experience in because I haven't lived and I don't really know anyone with with a visual impairment. So that was very valuable, and also validated that that that this is what I need to continue to do, and have these conversations. So I think in total, so far, we've with folks from reachability, and then just folks around run this again. We're about 70 folks now that we've, we've had conversations with great and we're not going to stop there, and it's, it's going to be something that we I mean, as we grow, I'm thinking even 10 years down the road, there's always going to be the piece of the lived experience involved in everything that's that's really a core value for us well.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 24:49
And I think things will change in some of those areas, like the equipment changes, if you think of like the wide range of wheelchairs. Yeah, exactly right. And you know that have gone from being able to be, you know, people use ones that can be folded up to the ones that like weigh the about the same weight as your car. And so they can't be lifted. And they can, you know, they're, they have their own challenges. Also, they're much wider. So things that we built before are no longer of use.

Blake Hunsley 25:13
The parameters for what we consider something to be accessible have changed.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 25:32
Yeah, right, exactly. So I like that how, you know, you said, like, you know, constantly looking because I think things are constantly changing.

Blake Hunsley 25:39
Something that came up in the focus group that you just mentioned too, that I mentioned too, that I found interesting. We were initially a little worried that we had kind of stacked the deck. We had a lot of folks that just happened to be around and available that day that have visual impairments. We had some folks who were intersectional as well. They have mobility issues and visual issues as well. And the more we thought about it, the more we realized this was actually the perfect group, because not only is it a dire need out there in the city, and also one that has serious ramifications, if your route is not easily navigable, you can end up and we've seen this happen. Unfortunately, with good friends of the show, you end up trapped in the middle of the street and you're just waving frantically for someone to come and help you, which is not a dignified solution. But also, whenever we're trying to do anything tech related at all, like even if we're just doing if we're just doing updates to the reachability website, we make sure that we run it by someone with visual, either low vision, or someone blind first, because in your case, yes, the app is going to be helpful to them, but only if they can use it. So right at the design stage out of the gate, it's like, you want those low to no vision folks to be some of the very first people you have in the door if it's going to be a tech solution, because they're the people that are getting bypassed with all these fancy new technological solutions most of the time, like, again, these intercom panels. So no, we need to make sure that they can actually use the thing and then actually be helped by it.

Avery Cote 26:56
Yeah, and I mean, I was, I have to say I was, I was nervous going into it, because I, I it was at my comfort zone, right? And it I, I'm building this, this solution that I think is really valuable, and I'm building it sort of in the lens that I know so the mobility. And then I was nervous. I was like, what if this is awful. Like, what if, what if? What if they say, like, this is stupid. Like, this doesn't work. So, I mean, yeah, it was I, I was pretty nervous going into it, and we actually had to call because also I, like, I kind of had to play. I was like, Okay, I'm going to show a demo. And then I was like, well, now I really have to figure out how I'm going to do this. Because I was like, I mean, the whole the debt, like, I you have to see that, you know what he means, experience the demo. How do I and, I mean, I went to the drawing board a little bit. We had a call. I had a call with Evan, because Blake, Blake had to. (cross talk). I was like, I just want to make sure that I don't that I that I'm respectful, and then that I'm going in with good intentions and that that I don't do anything really wrong. And he was like, Don't overthink it, Avery. And I was right, but I am overthinking it. And he was like, Don't overthink it anyway. So I was like, You know what? I'm just gonna go and I'm gonna see what happens. And I was overthinking it

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 28:21
exactly, and knowing that, knowing that group that that attended, I think they appreciated the fact that you were real, right? Because I think that also gives them confidence that what you're going to build is going to work for them. Because one you're hearing what they have to say, and you're smart enough to realize in the moment and be able to be flexible that I probably can't show them a visual today that's not going to be appropriate. I mean, even saying that to them, like, oh, I need to rethink, because it also shows we're all human. We right, and I love when you said that. I kind of like had a little smirk. I was out of my comfort zone, right? And so many of the people that have these challenges are out of their comfort zone every day. So that's not necessarily a bad thing, like I always tell people like when you're out of your comfort zone, when you're developing something, designing a policy, a procedure, a process, a new program. That's a good thing. It's usually telling you, you likely don't have all the information. You better go find some people okay with that lived experience that can help you. It's so funny, too. I love the outcome. That was great.

Blake Hunsley 29:40
One of the things we just you made me think about so many of the lessons we teach in disability confidence. Here it's so one of the main things we teach is called Disability confidence, and one of the things we start with is getting people comfortable asking questions respectfully, that may not be questions that they feel they should have any right to ask, but there's nothing more offensive than not. Of being consulted and not being considered. So when you can, you know, put your brave pants on for the day and actually ask someone, hey, how much vision do you actually have? Which is a question I have to ask a lot. Is quite a tough question to ask somebody, especially meeting them for the first time. So no, I think you went in with a great attitude. You went in not knowing everything, knowing you didn't know everything, and knowing that there might be some moments that might feel a little awkward, but that's fine. And the group that you had, I know a lot of that group, and I'm sure that they were more entertained than anything else, but I find when you are reasonably respectful and confident, but still willing to engage and ask questions that are clearly outside your comfort zone. Comfort Zone. To someone with a disability, 99 times out of 100 you're going to get a great answer, but you're also going to get serious amusement and pleasure on their part, because they enjoy having this conversation. Everyone likes to talk about themselves, and no one wants to feel like their circumstances are taboo. They're not. There's nothing wrong with having a disability, for heaven's sake, so why not be comfortable asking about it, right?

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 31:02
And they were included. So, you know, let's, let's talk about, you know who you're looking to partner with?

Avery Cote 31:12
Yeah, so we launched a wait, like a future user waitlist on our website, www, dot truck, iq.ca/attendees, and what that is going to give you access to is, like, first access to the platform, but then also, like continued consultation. Almost what we're doing with ReachAbility and the focus groups, like, Hey, I'm thinking about this feature. Like, is this a value to you? So really getting, getting a solid core group of first movers to to help us validate as we as we develop, and then we'll launch, and then iterate and see what happens. But we're also looking to partner with with businesses. So we're particularly targeting like businesses that like folks actually visit, because we're trying to increase increase accessibility in those spaces, we would, I'll kind of tie that back to the the focus group. So one thing that we were tracking was how, how often barriers are are are encountered when going to like public events or venues? It was 85% of the time with with the folks that we surveyed. And one quote that kind of came out of the conversation we were talking about is that the last 20 meters is often enough to make you want to turn around and go home and say, it's not worth it. So we knew that we had to solve that last 20 meters. So that's where the street to seat comes in. But then the B to B, we're, we're, we're trying to get them to be more accountable to accessibility. So right now, apps that exist, it's all crowd source data. It's, it's folks that have gone to these events, and they've made a little note saying, yeah, the the washroom is accessible. Two things. One that goes stale very quickly. Because, like, what if the washrooms closed down when you go right? Like, really? I mean, so it goes stale very quickly. There's no one verifying it. But because it was accessible for one person doesn't mean it's accessible for someone else. So crowd source data doesn't really work how we want it to. Now, that's kind of a component of the app. I mean, we're going to solicit feedback from from the folks that are using the app and use that crowdsource piece, but where the business comes in is that they're validating that, so they're getting notifications that have barriers in their location, and they're validating that, and they're going to be the ones accountable to solve it, not the other way around. We're not expecting attendees of these of these events and these venues to to solve their own issues, because that's outrageous. It's on the business you want these folks in your business. You have to prove it to them that you want them here, and this is how they're going to be able to prove it.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 34:04
So are there specific businesses? Are we? Are you thinking like restaurants, theater, retail, like, are there specific businesses? Because we're talking to our podcast listeners, and so here's a great opportunity to get them to listen and participate. So who would you love to hear from, like, what types of businesses?

Avery Cote 34:33
Yeah, I mean, we I'd love to hear from anyone, really. But to your point, we're really looking for folks in, like, the theater space in the live event sector. So like, for example, like Christmas at the forum, those kind of organizations, and also restaurants, like movie theaters, so on and so forth. We're trying to increase access to public life and community life and. And grow, hopefully increase quality of life.

Blake Hunsley 35:04
I imagine you heard this in your focus group, but you talk to anybody who lives in the city and who has especially physical disabilities, they often have sort of a mental shortlist of like friendly businesses, of businesses that they know they can get into. They know there's not going to be a hassle. They know that the staff is well trained, and that's great to have those resources on hand, but it really limits, it really kind of minimizes your ability to go out and enjoy the city like every other citizen can. So no, I think this is a great leveler, which is what we need. We're not asking for any special access for anyone here. We're just asking for everyone to have the same the same access, the same ability to get in the door, exactly.

Avery Cote 35:44
And I mean, it comes from, if I am going to a restaurant, I'm not looking up to see if I can get in the door because I don't have to. So why are we expecting folks with disabilities to so first of all, your business, and you you, you want people to spend their money in your business, and you want people do a 10 Year event, and you want but then you're you're making folks spend, sometimes upwards to an hour researching how they can even get to you. It's outrageous. It really like it's such a broken way that we operate.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 36:19
I was just as I'm as you're talking about this, it's actually triggering a whole bunch of thoughts, because you said Christmas at the forum, and in my head, I was thinking, I was thinking, you know, getting in a restaurant, getting in like, you know, the Rebecca Cohn, you know, getting into the movie theater. But then you think about all these venues, okay, that have multiple functions or events, like the forum that has Christmas at the forum might have, like, wrestling another night. So it's actually quite different, like the setup and I sit on the board for one of the community centers in the city, and I that was now just going through my head, oh, we we need to partner. But then I was like, Well, no, we need to actually partner for all the different types of events that we have. So if the person's coming to x, then that's the event that they would know the accessibility for, versus something else, because it would be very different. Would look very different the setup. Oh, that this is, like, big this is, and I think this is will helping to level the playing field.

Avery Cote 37:30
Well, thank you. And I mean, if you want to talk offline, I'm

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 37:36
this is, this is this is great. So let's, you know, like, this is fantastic. I love, you know, hearing people that are partnering with organizations, because I say that all the time, working with organizations that one organization alone can't fix everything, right? We all need to partner. Everybody has strengths, and we need to bring those together. But let's look at the the roadblocks, because it won't be a straight path from A to B. So what do you see as some of the roadblocks, or what have been maybe some of the roadblocks thus far?

Avery Cote 38:17
Yeah, so I think we have the consumer side of it, kind of figured out we have a product that that is shaping up to be something that is really a value, and that's because of the conversation we've been having and that whole framework. The roadblock now is, how do we convince businesses that this is a good investment to make, because a core principle of ours is that the core features of our app for the consumer will always be free. We're never going to pay wall access to to life. It's just not, not in our DNA. So now, how do we convince businesses that this is a investment that you want to make, especially definite thought on this, especially because, like, I mean, in and again, it's not a small percentage of our population, it's 27% but when you when, when you have folks with, like, invisible disabilities, for example, If operators are only thinking of accessibility as like people in wheelchairs. Like, well, on my last event, we only have three people in a wheelchair. So like three people. You don't even, but why exactly, and that's what we're trying to solve, is you are leaving out 27% potentially leaving out 27% of the population from your space, and you don't know it, and you don't know how to get them into your building, because you don't know how to prove that this is like, it's great to have an accessibility page on your website and say, Oh, we have accessible seating and we have accessible washrooms, but how do you get there, and how do you navigate, and who do you talk to, and is the information even correct? And if I call. I'm getting a vague answer, and then maybe something changed from the Saturday I call to the Saturday I show up and like, there's so many moving parts. So we're trying to sell it as a solution to a cut down on the labor cost of actually managing accessibility in your space. It's a very manual process. We're trying to automate that process by having live updates and live metrics and like aI powered recommendations for improvement as as like comments roll in. That's one piece of it. The other piece is really that you can drive sales and capture sales from 27% of the population. So, I mean, I hate to bring it back to money, but when you're talking about the B to B side, you almost right, like

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 40:48
there has to be, there has to be a business case. Yeah, right. And that's just a fact.

Blake Hunsley 40:55
We talk about a lot around reach, and we're talking with employers and with business owners, is that, yeah, they almost feel bad about talking about money. When you're talking about people with disabilities. It's like people with disabilities both make and spend money. They are customers. And also, when we're talking about the 27% figure too, I believe that's the national figure. Yeah, it is, yeah. And Nova Scotia is higher. It's about 33 Yeah, it's about a third of the population, and growing as our population ages as well. When you bring it down to a money thing, there's so much money being left just on the table because people aren't engaging. And again, it all comes back to they haven't thought it through. I really don't think any business owner is sitting out there in their office thinking, You know what? I just don't care about people with disabilities. No, it's that they haven't thought it's a huge section of the population. It's not just the right thing to do to try to make life more accessible for these people, it's completely self serving in both ways that we talked about. The money way, it's more customers for you, but also there, but for the grace of a little more time goes you. Everyone is going to have a disability if they live long enough, future proof for yourself, make your business accessible for future you, if it's not for you now, yeah?

Avery Cote 42:05
And, I mean, we there, there's also going to be like, so, I mean, there's the Nova Scotia, like 2030 accessibility legislation, and so on and so forth. A lot of that's pertaining to, like, the new built environment. So if you're building a new building. These are the standards in Halifax, in other city. I mean, where I'm from, Fredericton, New Brunswick, it's a very old town. We have a lot of old buildings. We're trying to retrofit these buildings to fit the needs that we, that we we want it like. So restaurants going in an older building, a venue is going in an older building. So some something that we're hearing when we're talking with some businesses is we're never going to be able to get there because we're in an old building, and there's this and this and this. And my my feedback to that is we're not trying to get you to 100% we're trying to give folks real time, accurate information that gives them a data driven choice. So we it's very the platform is very personalized. So like, when you when you up, when you download it, you're going to be able to set up a profile, and you're going to put in, like, your various accessibility needs by particular, particular to you. And that's going to be different for everyone. And then it's going to give you a score based on the event, based on the venue, for every, every accessibility accommodation or not come but any accommodation you may need. And that's how they're going to be able to make the decision like, okay, no, I can probably do this

Blake Hunsley 43:44
without the usual mental load. Exactly, yeah. I'm very excited for the day that somebody encounters a new event space, a new business, a new, you know, any kind of public thing happening in their community that they would not have felt confident going to before that now, at, you know, in a couple of moments on their phone or on whatever device they can go, Okay, I not only do I know how to get to this. Here are all of my questions pre answered. Here are all of my fears pre allayed. I am confident I can not only get in the venue, but I love what you said Street to seat too. Like, yes, I hadn't even considered it, but having been to a number of events with folks with different disabilities, you're 1,000% right. That is the most difficult part of the journey. It's not always getting to the venue. It's when you get in the venue. How do we navigate this chaos? There's no proper signage, there's no one to help, and there's no public information on their website to tell us the answers to all of these common questions. So to have it all kind of right at your fingertips in one app.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 44:42
or it's so it's so loud, yes, the proper signage probably was there when we looked at the venue with nobody in it, okay? There was a straight path, okay, to the seat. And I'm just thinking about like all. All the times. Like, you know, you're standing outside the doors waiting to get in, right? And it is. It's like, loud, it's chaotic. Imagine somebody trying to navigate that who either has mobility challenges, somebody who's autistic, right? Like, that's not a straight to your seat process, right, that you're right, that is likely you would get to the door. You would look in, if you were not visually impaired, you would look in, and you'd be like, Yeah, I'm going home. Like, this is not for me.

Blake Hunsley 45:32
There's no dignified way to enjoy the same experience the same way as everyone else. And that's not fair. Yeah.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 45:37
So I love that we can get there like I think we can get there. This is great.

Blake Hunsley 45:44
I'm very excited to see how this goes Avery, and to see the future with you. Here, we're going to keep following your progress. Once you join up with ReachAbility, we will just hassle you and stick along beside you.

Avery Cote 45:53
So that's not not necessarily a problem for me. (cross talk). Perfect.

Blake Hunsley 46:01
Avery before we go, if people are as excited about this project as the three people in this room are, and they want to talk to you more about it, or if businesses want to partner with you, or if the city wakes up and goes, You know what? This is something we should have done ages ago. Maybe we should get this young gentleman to help us get this information out there. What's the best way for people to reach you?

Avery Cote 46:19
Yeah, so you can visit my website, www.Trekiq.ca/contact. That's going to bring you to a contact form. Or you can book a meeting directly on my calendar. There's a button on the bottom of the page for that. You can also email me directly, founder.Trekiq@gmail.com and we can set something up there. I mean, if those you don't want to do that. Reach out to ReachAbility. And they have my contact too, so I'm sure

Blake Hunsley 46:44
they'll you heard it. We got permission. We'll just share it really. Know that

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 46:48
sounds great, perfect. All right. Well, thank you so much. It really, this was enlightening. I love hearing things that are going to be inclusive, because the this process is me, you need inclusivity, right? And so I'm going to encourage all those businesses that are listening out there to reach out to Avery, even, to have a conversation where Avery can pitch to you what's in it for your business and why you need to participate. But Avery I'd like to thank you for taking on this work and sticking through, and thank you for being here with us today.

Avery Cote 47:28
It was such a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for letting me share what I've been working on. And I mean, I'm I may be a little delusional, I guess, and it how much I want this to work, and I'm very excited about the future. I think we've made a lot of great gains, and we have a great framework, and we're just going to keep on running. So thank you. Thank you for the time. I appreciate it.

Blake Hunsley 47:52
Well, you've got some committed focus group folks now behind you that really want to see this happen, so they know how to find your email now too. All right. Thank you both very much. Thanks for listening to Within Our Reach. Season two of our podcast is made possible thanks to the support of the Province of Nova Scotia and the Support 4 Culture program. If you have feedback on this episode, or if you have ideas for future episodes, or if you would like to come join us as a guest, write to us at WithinOurReach@reachability.org.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai