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[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, everybody.

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[SPEAKER_00]: JJ Cooper and Alex Spear today on another of the baseball America Prospect podcast deep dives and if you follow the Boston Red Sox at all, I think that you're going to have a pretty good idea what's going on here, who we're going to talk about if you see Alex on the pop.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think we did this about this time last year, Alex, it's always good to talk to you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: you're getting ready to head down to spring training, but before you do, we're going to talk Red Sox prospects coming off of a very interesting season where we saw Robyn Anthony obviously emerge as a big leaguer and someone looks like you're going to be a big leaguer star and then at the end of the year,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Peyton Holy comes up, who is number one on the in the system.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Great to see you, how are you doing and how is your off season by and as you get ready to ramp it up for another MLV season?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well it's the off season is when it certainly keeps you busy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This has been an interesting one from the Red Sox perspective in that um, that

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're so trade heavy right now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're so trade heavy right now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so you know, we had both lived through this with the top 10 of the Red Sox system having to be reshuffled and reshuffled and reshuffled as they think about not only how to use that use their top prospects in order to be able to reinforce the big league team, but also reshape different aspects of their minor league team.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a fascinating off season for them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: uh, in many respects and uh, yeah, but I'm excited to see players on the field again.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's always, you know, kind of the joy of the job, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you hit on that one thing before we kind of dive further in, I do kind of find the interest of this is part of that is by where this team is now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Finally, is that, you know, this is the team that went to the playoffs last year, that is about contention now, not building for some future down the road.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But on top of that, when you look at it,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Another reality of this is that if everything goes the way the Red Sox want, there just aren't that many openings, there aren't that many spots where you're saying, okay, this prospect's going to step up some of the trades we saw like seeing, you know, the past we're just not just mixing Garcia being traded to the pirates.

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[SPEAKER_00]: is in part where it's like, if you've got a guy who's a triple A who's basically bigly ready and you look at it and say, well, I don't think he's going to make our roster.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then it's probably smart to move a guy like that now rather than let him spin year two in triple A and maybe start to lose a little bit of that prospect now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You maybe you get some depth down the road, but that's they've been having moves like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like in some cases.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's been a much more intentional approach to kind of leveling out areas of organizational surplus and in trying to trying to address areas of organizational deficiency or in this case building a surplus in a different area because what the red socks have been incredibly focused on.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Since Craig Breslow came over as Chief Baseball Officer was taking a farm system that was rich in position playing prospect where that was the obvious obvious strength of their organization and in trying to balance that out with with enough starting pitching and enough high end starting pitching both at the both established big leaders and kind of young promising prospects that they have the ability to withstand the perennial attrition of the season.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The, to think about how drastically the organization has changed in terms of its strengths on a one year or two year or three year basis is pretty striking.

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[SPEAKER_00]: along those lines, I do find it kind of that that really kind of started even I guess last year we could say because last year was the Garrett Crusade trade, you know, when we were also remaking the top 10 in the top 30 over and over like you had the Garrett Crusade trade last year, this year we've seen multiple moves, but that ties in to the number one prospect on the red-suck system.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Payton told me number one,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Coming out of the coming out of the 2025 season, it would have seen logical that you to expect off the fine work he had.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this is someone who's going to be in their opening day rotation in 2026.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Here we are.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And barring injury, it looks like he's ticketed to head back to Worcester to start the year, is he not?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's an extremely high likelihood and it's interesting because Toli is someone who traveled kind of the same like that same blitzing through the miners path that we saw in a trace out, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: But with the difference being that his savage had multiple pitches that he was really, there were really weapons in the strike zone, you know, at the majorly level, obviously

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[SPEAKER_01]: into that starting pitcher role in the big leagues, whereas for Peyton Toli, he dominated dominated dominated dominated in a way that I don't think anyone expected across multiple levels of the miners.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He was just kind of an avalanche going downhill over the course of the 2025 season, where I was like, oh, he's punching out a lot of people in high-a.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And in AA, and in a few AAA starts, and then that very impressive body of work did not translate at the big league level because he just didn't have feel for his secondaries once he got up there, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like he had a wonderful major league debut when she was able to overpower the pirates line up largely on the strength of

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[SPEAKER_00]: of that of that high 90s heater with a lot of adrenaline behind it that majorly debut and and the pirates line up you hit a key word in there also it's high res line up which would not compare with the Dodgers or the Yankees or several other teams is line up that you're really worried about how do you turn itself.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Or the Diamondbacks against whom he made his second Big League start and they were just sitting fastball and he wasn't able to execute anything else in the zone.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Even though, you know, I'm not sure if you got to see him JJ, I think you did at some point over the course of the 2025 season.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I got a great look at him in AAA right in his last start before he got caught up and he was executing the whole Shabbang.

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[SPEAKER_01]: right like he looked really impressive in a way that he was carving up the strike zone uh against I think a pretty advanced triple A team in Buffalo uh with you know it was he was landing his slider and he was landing his sweeper and he was executing a change up just below the bottom of the zone.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and the the AAA lineup looked over matched against the full arsenal, but he didn't have fuel for it once he got to the big leagues.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so right now, Peyton Tolley is trying to show that he's going to be in a visit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He has to establish himself in AAA.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The red sexes have an opportunity to let him re-establish himself in AAA.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is the whole arsenal, it's not just going to be fastball only, and if he's that guy, if he is able to land a lot of different stuff, a lot of different weapons and strikes own, then you're looking at a mid rotation starter, but they don't need to rush that equation and have him, you know, and have him get his brains beat now, if he's only a one pitch pitcher at the beginning of 2026.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Teach to me is one of the guys I'm most interested to see.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When we get to spring training, I mean, there's parts of spring training that are noise and there's parts of it that are signal and when, you know, when you're talking to Peyton toll and I bring the stories not long from now and he's talking about what he did early off season to work on his secondaries and things like that that's going to be fun to watch in March to see kind of how he's developing that way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: it does kind of strike me him and kind of the early who also was a guy who kind of rocketed up last year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: pair of guys who now seem to have a little bit more time to develop because again that what the depth of this rotation now was

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[SPEAKER_00]: was totally like the slam dunk like, okay, this is obviously number one, or was there any like, okay, maybe it's Franklin areas.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Again, you know, kison business or first run pick on the early had a very good year is very starterish although not with the same quality of fastball was it was totally the clear number one to you as you kind of did your reporting.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was some conversation about Toli vs. Ares, I think that Ares had his backers, but ultimately I thought that the industry value seemed to be pretty, there was a pretty strong consensus around the game about Toli having more value right now, Ares being someone who's further off, he's someone who

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[SPEAKER_01]: As a teenager, so super impressive, super fast track in his own right, reached AA last at the end of last year, and you're still waiting to see some tools develop in a way like there's, you know, whereas totally at least flashed everything, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like he flashed everything that you would need for a mid-rotation starter, areas still a, well, if he develops, you know, if he develops another

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[SPEAKER_01]: half great to a great of power, then you're talking about someone whose profile would really, you know, would really put him as a slim dunk to be, you know, in a above average every day short stop, as opposed to an average every day short stop.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's a guy with a great floor for a considering that he was only 19 in double a last year, because the defense is so good, because the battle ball is so good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But you're waiting for that clear view of impact to crystallize whereas with Toli it was there and so and so there there was there was conversation but I think ultimately there was a clear lean a strong lean in the conversation I'll say it was clear for Toli over areas and it was a year ago with Roman Anthony versus Christian Campbell for instance, which is wild to think about

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[SPEAKER_00]: It is well now, but at the time, yeah, I mean, it was Christian Campbell had such a season in 24.

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[SPEAKER_00]: With areas, the thing I do find fascinating, there is this, I think 10, 15 years ago, regular areas would not be appreciated the same way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I say that is that he doesn't run all that well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it used to be that kind of,

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[SPEAKER_00]: The there was an adage that if you're, you know, it's especially his age.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you can't, you know, if you don't have that plus speed or above average speed, okay, well, then are you going to have the range to be a short stop.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like over the last decade we've seen like these bigger short stuff the court, Cory Seger didn't run all that well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a number of short stops who have not run all that well and then quite good at short stop areas like to say it's not.

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[SPEAKER_00]: the physical, he's not the physical monster.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's more of kind of that the skills are so advanced at a very young age, isn't it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's something where for a teenager, the bat to ball skills, the understanding of how to do everything defensively and then execute it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of those the skill components of it are so advanced and the tools are solid.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As opposed to, we've seen a lot of guys over the years where it's like, okay, the 19 year old who the tools are amazing and it's like, well, but we got to see, can you learn how to hit, make, you know, which pitches to hit, make contact, can he tone all these things down areas kind of is really advanced in some of those aspects, isn't it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's game feel over like explosiveness, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, it's interesting at any given point in time, how much those two things are valued.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we've become like the industries become better at quantifying the game feel part of things, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: In terms of being able to measure out conversion and being able to quantify reaction time,

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[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, and how that plays into range, and that sort of thing in order to appreciate someone who despite as you rightly point out, this is someone who already is, you know, he is not even a 50 runner.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's a 20 year old who is a, you know, who's like, you know, maybe scraping 45 is a runner right now, and it's probably going to take down, but just.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Does such a good job of having feel for the game that that is defense plays well, well, well, above that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we, the industry has progressed to the point where there is an opportunity to believe in that as a kind of sticky skill set rather than thinking like, you manage to get to some balls, but he's not fast enough to keep doing that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we now are able to view things differently.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that you learn so much watching players in games, this is what, you know, why it's still great to have scouts like clock is so like is such a powerful thing and it is so particularly for an infielder like just that internal instinctive clock.

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[SPEAKER_01]: for, you know, to be moving, to have a lean at the point of contact, right, and to know where the ball is going to be going based on understanding pitch types and pitch locations and all of that stuff and picking up, you know, picking up like swing paths and the whole shipping.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's it really is striking to see the defenders who excel at just being able to read the game and what's in front of them, you know, and it's it's interesting too because like areas is probably viewed as a better defense of shortstop prospect in Marcelo Meyer.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and Marcelo Meyer's gifts are also that just wonderful, wonderful game clock, the ability to anticipate the ability to ring common, have wonderful quick reaction times in those kind of magic hands that are able to be, you know, to serve the role of press the digitator when it comes to those infield smashes, which is why he looked so natural

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, to just, you know, do the kind of Mr. Miyagi thing with his glove, and it's it's super fun to watch.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I will just start by saying the Red Sox system is clearly as a farm system where so it was last year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's no knock.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Roman Anthony was our top prospect in the game at this time last year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Christian Campbell was a top 10 prospect as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: you graduate those, you're not going to be at the same level, it's still a system with multiple top hundred prospects.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But so I will even phrase this a little different.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The same is this worse, better or worse than last year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: How much has it changed?

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[SPEAKER_00]: How much has it taken a hit?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Not just from graduations, but like you said, there's kind of been a rebalancing of this farm system as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Has there not?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that if you know JJ you guys have had me doing the top 10 list for I think this was my 14th season of it and I don't know that I've ever seen a more massive year over year alteration to the Red Sox farm system than I have from from 25 into 26 because not only was it those three guys knocking on the door in the form of Anthony Campbell Meyer right like you know Marcelo there was a like Marcelo by the end of spring training last year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: like was had reestablished himself as kind of spectacular prospect credentials just was so good when when he was kind of in the rhythm of the game and healthy and just the tone was great um yeah so not only do you have it did you have this group of of almost major league ready guys who are knocking on the door who are elite across the game

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[SPEAKER_01]: but they were all position players, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And now we've gone to a, now we've gone to a red socks farm system where at the top, aside from areas, you have a bunch of pictures and then but neat that you have and then, and then when it comes to the position players, they are all far from the big leagues.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a chance for areas because of the glove to make an impact at the big league level at the end of 2026, depending on the health threat socks and how some different things develop.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But otherwise, their position players are coming out of the DSL, or coming out of A-ball, and it is just a wildly different system now than it was a year ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the changes, the changes monumental, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have those guys.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They have pictures who are going to be able to contribute in the near term.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that has been such a clear emphasis for this organization over the course of the last.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Again, dating back to when Craig Bresle was hired.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like one of the first things that he did was to acquire a guy like Richard

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[SPEAKER_01]: fits as a piece in the Alex Perdugo trade to the Yankees and, you know, fits ended up being majorly depth and we've just seen, you know, we've seen the Red Sox since then just continue to work on reshaping their majorly depth, their majorly pitching depth as it extends into AAA and it is a

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[SPEAKER_01]: wildly different system.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Although JJ, it is also interesting to think about like Marcello Meyer was lost his prospect eligibility by a few at bats and you know it would be off Marcello would have been the number one prospect for me had he remained eligible this year and I would also be curious you know if you were to think about how close you know where he would fall in the top 100

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[SPEAKER_00]: He'd still be quite high.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think this way, the summarizing how much it changed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Looking at last year's top 10.

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[SPEAKER_00]: At the the prospect handbook top red sucks top 10.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the top three graduated that we just talked about the the big three.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then another four from that top 10 have been traded since then.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there are three players, and we just talked about, you know, areas was in there, and we talked about Connie Lee, early, who was in there, who was number 10.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yohel and Cessepadis, who's in the top 30, is the only other member of the top 10 from a year ago, who's still eligible to rank on this list.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, you just mentioned like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's not just that like hundred ovens was number 11.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's been traded and Richard fits was number 12 and he's been so it's

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[SPEAKER_00]: the top of this system there's been from last year there's been graduations, but there's also been a ton of trades, which does make sense when we talk about this for the standpoint of when you have these guys who are big league ready and their depth, but it's also like 40-man roster construction and some other pieces like that that kind of all tie into this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That also means as we look ahead to next year,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't expect there to be the same amount of change over as there was this time this year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like when you look at this top 10, I think there's a number of guys who could still be back again next year, but we would expect that totally is going to graduate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that commonly early should be expected to graduate.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Outside of that, Jake Bennett, who they traded for, but, you know, I could see him graduating as well, conceivably.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But who kind of fits in that next year, maybe not, maybe maybe not.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But who fits in that group for next year, like, could be the number one, again, we're going to have graduations, they're probably able to smooths.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is areas the logical one considering his age and the fact that he's probably not going to make his major league debut in, in 2026?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Or even if he makes his major league debut, there's a high likelihood that he retains prospect eligibility at the end of, I mean, if he's making his major league debut, it's probably just amplifying his cases number one by the end of this year, because it would most likely be kind of the September scenario where he's getting his shot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think that areas is the clear is the clear candidate to be number one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's why he's ranked number two.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that there's also a group

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[SPEAKER_01]: Kison with her spoon is another obvious candidate for 25 right and viewed as the best college right hander in the 2025 draft someone who might end up starting the year in AA and you know there's

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the Red Sox or shy about the positive, it's now evident that the Red Sox are among the many organizations that aren't shy about moving players quickly through that first professional season, so it's not outlandish to think that he could be in the same realm as the kind of like totally like prospects.

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[SPEAKER_01]: who shoots through the miners and ends up emerging as the number one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So those would be the two most obvious, and that's why they're ranked where they are, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if we assume that Toli and early end up kind of aging out of Prospect status, then Prospect number two and four in a system are obvious candidates to emerge.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There are probably

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[SPEAKER_01]: Then there are a couple, there are a little further down that have a chance that have a chance to really make more considerable jumps, right, that would maybe not be necessary within the realm of expectation, but I think that the candidates that you would point to there include Juan Valera, who is who was super impressive last year as a teenager in many respects, super impressive.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We all get it, ERA is not really, is not really the predictive thing that we look for when evaluating prospects at this point.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he was someone who pounded the strike zone as a teenage starting picture.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's physically huge, but has enough body control to be able to land strikes while throwing, you know, while topping out like 98, 99, Hondo and, you know, and with

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[SPEAKER_01]: with the components of two pretty good secondary pitches, so he's someone who could make some considerable strides, particularly again, given the strike throwing, like there's Hill, oh, he'll assert himself with a pretty good floor, and if he's getting to the upper levels by the end of the year as a very young pitcher, Hill, he might stand out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Justin Gonzalez has been and will be a fascinating lottery ticket slash wildcard.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He is someone who who just had enormous tools in no real in very little game field when the Red Sox signed him for very little money out of out of the Dominican.

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[SPEAKER_01]: out of the Dominican a few years ago and he's been fascinating because he hits the ball incredibly hard.

22:08.880 --> 22:13.005
[SPEAKER_01]: He makes really good swing decisions and he just happens to hit the ball into the ground.

22:13.446 --> 22:16.970
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is one of the strengths of the Red Sox system.

22:17.451 --> 22:22.137
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that unlocked Christian Campbell was taking a guy whose approach had been

22:22.117 --> 22:52.123
[SPEAKER_01]: Ground ball and line drive heavy and teaching him how to be able to kind of catch the ball like, you know, change the contact point a little bit get the ball in the air and be able to drive it from gap to gap Gonzalez has huge power potential to the point where you know if he is if he is catching the ball if he's not catching the ball quite as deep

22:52.103 --> 22:58.837
[SPEAKER_01]: if he's able to continue to assert himself as a corner out builder and not just a first base only profile.

22:59.699 --> 23:05.350
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's someone who there's the possibility of a huge offensive numbers from him.

23:05.390 --> 23:13.487
[SPEAKER_01]: If if a few different things click, it's not as high a probability, but it could.

23:14.378 --> 23:25.872
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the one where the tools are huge and there's an approach underlying it, but there would need to be some transformation to the game and the offensive approach to allow it to unlock.

23:27.054 --> 23:34.463
[SPEAKER_00]: You just touched on this one of the things that the red socks obviously have done a good job of is is they they're hitting development kind of seem like it took some strides.

23:35.523 --> 23:39.709
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that still like if you were going to say what are the risks kind of hang their head on as a barn system?

23:40.130 --> 23:43.575
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it that or is it kind of solid development again?

23:43.615 --> 23:47.040
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw the developments of a totally of a commonly early of some of these pictures.

23:47.601 --> 23:50.905
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it becoming a little bit more of a picture focused development again?

23:51.046 --> 23:54.130
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the answer is you want to do all of the above.

23:54.150 --> 23:56.854
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to improve hitting, you want to improve defense, you want to improve pitching.

23:57.155 --> 23:58.797
[SPEAKER_00]: But what do you think that they're good at development?

24:00.093 --> 24:12.965
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that the the so-called lowing like they've done a great job of implementing processes that have allowed them to add power to to their players across the board, both position players and pitchers.

24:13.025 --> 24:15.992
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, bat speed training, they were, you know, they

24:15.972 --> 24:27.568
[SPEAKER_01]: behind Jason O'Chart, a former driveline instructor who had a few years as the Philly's hitting coordinator and then was hired to be to oversee Red Sox hitting development.

24:28.449 --> 24:36.360
[SPEAKER_01]: They have made major across the board games in terms of, in terms of, bad speed training and getting guys to be able to hit the ball harder.

24:36.340 --> 24:42.749
[SPEAKER_01]: and then they've been able to make huge gains in terms of implementing velocity programs across the organization.

24:42.769 --> 24:51.041
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you see, you see the patent totally of the world kind of disappearing after their drafted and emerging eight months later throwing five miles an hour harder.

24:51.521 --> 24:54.606
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's patent totally isn't the only one for whom that's happening.

24:54.726 --> 24:57.049
[SPEAKER_01]: So they've been able to attack

24:57.029 --> 25:16.590
[SPEAKER_01]: Those areas and then and then supporting it to that they've also like it's not like they've said, okay, that's enough like just that power they've done a really nice job of being thoughtful and intentional about creating systems that develop tools right and so I mentioned back path earlier with regards to Christian Campbell and Justin Gonzalez.

25:16.570 --> 25:26.920
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something where they've had a really like they've done a really good job of coaching players up on figuring out like you know how to get to good attack angles with their swings.

25:27.281 --> 25:39.393
[SPEAKER_01]: And Franklin area is actually an interesting example of that because he had been too steep as an 18 year old and they were like well this isn't really going to you know you're going to head a lot of pop ups if you continue this way.

25:39.693 --> 25:46.240
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he had a super he ended up with a super

25:46.220 --> 25:54.008
[SPEAKER_01]: which explained how he got it to this like to these incredible contact numbers like just no zone swing and miss at all.

25:54.548 --> 26:07.781
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now it's kind of continued to adjust the dials and find something where you're okay getting on that like getting on that plane with the pitch to be able to drive it into the gaps a little bit more or maybe through the fences a little bit more with it.

26:07.801 --> 26:15.889
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if you add a little bit of strength, you're getting some homers out of it.

26:15.869 --> 26:37.033
[SPEAKER_01]: All these elements, I do think that they have gotten to a point of balanced, you know, of having both position player and picture development programs that have been effective in building out tools and now, you know, there is a there is a game field element to it that there are.

26:37.688 --> 26:43.237
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of what they do is, a lot of what they do is in these training sessions and training settings.

26:43.838 --> 26:56.398
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if there is a critique of the Red Sox system that you hear most, it is whether or not all the tools development is translating into games and particularly on the defensive side of things.

26:56.498 --> 27:03.409
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that they've heard the criticism and they recognize a need to

27:03.845 --> 27:11.837
[SPEAKER_01]: to tweak some of their programming and some of their training to get players to have better game feel as well.

27:13.079 --> 27:17.886
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's kind of a big picture look at the Betsox Armed System.

27:18.187 --> 27:31.827
[SPEAKER_00]: For the video portion on YouTube, that's the end of this show, but at the same time, if you are listening on the podcast or if you want to listen on the podcast, we're gonna go on for a little while longer, talk about some of the sleepers in the organization and a little bit kind of the 2026 outlook right access quick break.

27:35.587 --> 27:38.730
[SPEAKER_00]: So Alex, okay, looking past the top 10.

27:39.431 --> 27:41.113
[SPEAKER_00]: We always have the writing these up.

27:42.054 --> 27:48.661
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always guys that you start like, I write up guys that I'm like, man, start to really kind of be enamored by this guy.

27:48.701 --> 27:51.084
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's talking to a scout about them.

27:51.104 --> 27:52.525
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's watching some video.

27:52.545 --> 27:59.893
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be different ways, but I'm guessing that there was a couple that popped to you that you're like, oh, this is a guy to kind of keep an eye on going forward.

27:59.953 --> 28:01.375
[SPEAKER_00]: Who kind of jumps out to you?

28:02.502 --> 28:30.417
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I think that, you know, there are a couple of players who kind of light you up with with regards to their considerable potential and I think that a couple of them are going to be coming out of the DSL or going to be coming out of the DSL this season and making their state side debuts in short stop Hector Ramos as well as as well as outfielder hell of rebust those are guys to have really broad tool sets.

28:30.397 --> 28:37.711
[SPEAKER_01]: And kind of offer a number of opportunities to be able to, to be able to contribute, you know, like those are.

28:38.232 --> 28:49.232
[SPEAKER_01]: It shouldn't come as a huge surprise that, you know, that the guys who are viewed as having the ability to just fly up the rankings are going to be coming out of the DSL because, you know, that.

28:49.212 --> 29:18.342
[SPEAKER_01]: Once you get state side, particularly since, you know, you come to state side and the expectation is no longer that you spend a full season in short, like the entire year in extended and then short season ball, but if they're going to be getting exposure to able by the end of it, you learn a lot about players and if they continue their physical maturation, if they're able to start driving, showing the ability to drive the balls, the gaps and gains on top of, on top of interesting defensive floors and speed, then all of a sudden you start thinking like

29:18.322 --> 29:24.630
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, those are the guys who have a chance to be the kind of five-tool talents.

29:24.710 --> 29:35.403
[SPEAKER_01]: And then someone else who's not too far out of the top 10, but who's going to be interesting to monitor as Anthony Iyansin, who is their third-grounder out of LSU.

29:35.743 --> 29:43.473
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people view him as being a much higher as being a kind of someone who should have been taken higher than where he actually went.

29:44.113 --> 29:46.236
[SPEAKER_01]: He was incredibly effective.

29:46.216 --> 30:03.128
[SPEAKER_01]: as the day, as the, you know, as the number two starter in a national championship caliper rotation and he's someone who's probably going to end up, and I'm interested to see him in spring training, see how much power he's added to the fastball because

30:03.800 --> 30:19.547
[SPEAKER_01]: It was already a kind of invisible fastball certainly an invisible slider and, you know, if you're, if you're adding power to the section, then you have it with the guy who's more willing than most to throw strikes, you have a chance to move pretty quickly.

30:20.557 --> 30:24.263
[SPEAKER_00]: If he, I don't want to put him on the patent holy track, that's unfair for him.

30:24.443 --> 30:34.699
[SPEAKER_00]: But if he makes the development like a connolly early has, where, and it doesn't have to be that he shows up to spring training, and you're like, oh, he's found four miles an hour.

30:34.799 --> 30:46.817
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it's just even something where, there's just a steady improvement, where it's like, okay, he adds a mile an hour a year over the next couple, three years.

30:47.506 --> 31:01.127
[SPEAKER_00]: I watch out to me for him because as you said, like, that's really that's kind of the only big question is okay you would like to see a little bit more velocity a little bit more power behind it, although as you said, the fastball plays as is right now.

31:02.305 --> 31:08.751
[SPEAKER_00]: He was, he was essentially, he was the, they had on a LSU team that had a pair of aces.

31:08.811 --> 31:15.518
[SPEAKER_00]: He was an ace and you kind of saw that last year, he is one that really does jump out to me.

31:15.558 --> 31:18.821
[SPEAKER_00]: I did want to ask a couple, because we're going to get the questions.

31:18.921 --> 31:25.928
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that always happens is some players, you know, the developments never linear, but some players rise up, some other players slide down.

31:26.509 --> 31:27.790
[SPEAKER_00]: When you look at

31:27.770 --> 31:37.503
[SPEAKER_00]: Miguel Blis, a micro Romero sesspidus, we talked about a little bit earlier, or an Allen cast, but those are guys who've ranked pretty high and then have slid down a little bit.

31:38.304 --> 31:42.830
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there one of those that jumps out of this that kind of the most likely to kind of really keep an eye on in 26?

31:43.331 --> 31:46.555
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is there, you know, is it kind of a more of a muddled group?

31:47.918 --> 31:49.541
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it is it is fairly muddled.

31:49.561 --> 31:58.657
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say Mike your marrow is going to open the year in AAA and he's going to be in big league camp and he is beloved by established big leagueers.

31:59.278 --> 32:09.336
[SPEAKER_01]: You know he he lights up the the guys like Trevor story and I think there's you know there's there's something to that blink test right when when you are a player who.

32:09.316 --> 32:15.284
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, who naturally, who naturally gets buy-in from established big leaders, I think that there's something there.

32:15.684 --> 32:21.572
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that Mikey or Maro is someone who grew up with, you know, he has really good game feel.

32:21.712 --> 32:31.825
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think that I think that he has feel for, he has feel for his skill set in being able to figure out how to maximize it.

32:31.845 --> 32:33.467
[SPEAKER_01]: So like he was

32:33.447 --> 32:52.266
[SPEAKER_01]: like who impressed me when I would see him even though his numbers in AAA weren't great, but I continually I frequently saw him being able to even with relatively modest exit velocities drive the ball into the gaps for extra base hits because he just hits the ball at ideal launch angles when he makes contact and

32:52.347 --> 33:03.286
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the approach isn't necessarily, it wasn't great, but I think that he just finds a way to, he's going to find a way to make himself into being a contributor.

33:03.306 --> 33:10.158
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I, I don't know yet with guys like Miguel Blaise, with guys like Eureli and Céspedes.

33:10.599 --> 33:12.803
[SPEAKER_01]: They're still an opportunity for them.

33:12.783 --> 33:38.335
[SPEAKER_01]: To really, you know, to really figure things out, but I haven't seen enough of them being able to do so I think I think that they've they've been, you know, they've been focused on like on applying training stuff and that it's taken away from their game field like Miguel blazes one of the great examples of that because he just hits a ton of pop ups and his pull rate has gone just bananas and like he's strong enough where.

33:38.315 --> 34:06.347
[SPEAKER_01]: you know what like he can dial it back a little bit he can catch the ball a little bit deeper and still drive it to right center and he hasn't been able to make that adjustment yet in terms of his approach and so you know and so like there's there's the tools to still be an impact player but the fact that someone with his prominent prospect profile of a of the last couple of years didn't get taken in the rule five draft is awfully telling about where the gap is right now between tools and production.

34:08.015 --> 34:11.780
[SPEAKER_00]: Other thing that you talked a little bit earlier, there's been a shift here.

34:11.820 --> 34:15.305
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen prospects now get moved to help the big league club.

34:15.325 --> 34:16.747
[SPEAKER_00]: You've seen that in multi-class.

34:16.767 --> 34:23.576
[SPEAKER_00]: We've now seen prospects move to help move big leagueers off the roster, like an important hit break.

34:23.596 --> 34:28.943
[SPEAKER_00]: David Sandlin is like, we'll send him with you if you'll take Jordan Hicks to the white socks.

34:29.986 --> 34:32.871
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that another we talked about totally, I know we talked about early.

34:32.891 --> 34:36.397
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a couple of guys who will probably make an impact in 2026.

34:37.479 --> 34:41.265
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you said what this farm system is going to make its biggest impact for the Red Sox.

34:41.285 --> 34:43.930
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've seen this again, someone on the offseason already.

34:44.671 --> 34:46.915
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it really now kind of more.

34:47.097 --> 34:52.906
[SPEAKER_00]: that there's a lot of players here that could be moved in trades to help the big league club.

34:52.946 --> 34:59.897
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this a foreign system that you should you should be, you know, if you're a minor league or you're well, you don't have to rent now.

34:59.917 --> 35:00.278
[SPEAKER_00]: The good news.

35:00.298 --> 35:01.159
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to rent now.

35:01.861 --> 35:14.100
[SPEAKER_00]: Housing is paid for by the big league club, but you shouldn't be, you know, basically getting that red socks tattoo necessarily on

35:14.688 --> 35:44.053
[SPEAKER_01]: Another way to put it is that there's probably going to be like, you know, for those teams that still scout in person, there's probably going to be a pretty good amount of heat on the red socks through the first half of the season because they are a team that's that's proven to open to open and moving from a variety of prospect classes and, you know, the fact that they use H. Justinson Garcia, because they have, you know, I've big league outfielders, so they trade Garcia in order to acquire Johan Oviedo, right?

35:44.033 --> 35:55.008
[SPEAKER_01]: Clearly Garcia wasn't, you know, Garcia represented, a trainable asset even though he's a really nice prospect someone who, you know, was in, you know, did he land in the top 100 JJ?

35:55.588 --> 36:13.973
[SPEAKER_00]: Just off the edge of it, but I would expect like, I mean, if you're saying like if you said could he get rookie the year vote in the, and I wouldn't be stunned because the opportunity's going to be there for him.

36:13.953 --> 36:16.196
[SPEAKER_00]: if you stayed in Boston.

36:16.216 --> 36:18.099
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is exactly why they end up trading, right?

36:18.139 --> 36:34.881
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they view him as they view this opportunity as being limited and as you're playing the options game and thinking about, you know, thinking about long-term control and where the opportunity to contribute will, will hit relative to relative to the opportunity to kind of keep them in the organization.

36:34.861 --> 36:36.284
[SPEAKER_01]: you start to run out of rope.

36:36.304 --> 36:59.164
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you also see that to a certain degree with what I think is a very fascinating trade like a very telling one that the Red Sox executed in dealing Luis Peralis as as high ceiling in arm as you can hope to find in the minors for Jake Bennett with the nationals in just

36:59.144 --> 37:13.656
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, uh, they, you know, as, which I think is telling on a couple of, uh, on a couple of points, one of which is I do think the red sucks a bit hyper focus this year on, uh, what the impact might be of the implementation of the ABS challenge system and the big leagues.

37:14.137 --> 37:18.807
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that they have, uh, they've kind of shifted the dial a little bit away from.

37:18.787 --> 37:21.511
[SPEAKER_01]: stuff in more towards command in the strike zone.

37:21.531 --> 37:43.782
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you saw an off-season in which they traded for sunny gray, in which they signed Ranger Suarez, in which they traded Luis Parales in exchange for Jake Bennett, because they're going after their targeting guys who who worked in the strike zone, which is probably also part of the reason why a David Sandlin ends up being as somewhat

37:43.762 --> 37:50.215
[SPEAKER_01]: Sandlin is someone who really struggled to execute within the strikes, so you saw it pretty in pretty pronounced fashion once you got to AAA.

37:51.116 --> 38:01.737
[SPEAKER_01]: But the Red Sox we're willing to take a guy with, you know, who was going to be entering, I, Parallelist was going to be entering into what his, his third, his second option here.

38:02.341 --> 38:03.042
[SPEAKER_01]: or is third.

38:03.643 --> 38:04.845
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's third.

38:04.865 --> 38:05.426
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's third.

38:05.506 --> 38:05.846
[SPEAKER_01]: I will.

38:05.866 --> 38:06.227
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's.

38:06.427 --> 38:06.587
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

38:06.627 --> 38:09.992
[SPEAKER_01]: So this was going to be, you know, he was going to be running out of options after 2026.

38:10.453 --> 38:19.567
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they deal them for Jake Bennett, who is, you know, just added to the 40 man roster, but who, but who is, you know, who has three years of options of optionality remaining.

38:19.667 --> 38:25.075
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so you saw that that change and they're willing to deal prospects for prospects.

38:25.395 --> 38:27.859
[SPEAKER_01]: And that pitching prospects for pitching prospects.

38:27.839 --> 38:38.314
[SPEAKER_01]: That tells you a lot about how they're approaching the fluidity of training and of their system and of development and how, yes, you're right, JJ.

38:38.334 --> 38:41.578
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Brent, don't know.

38:43.000 --> 38:48.548
[SPEAKER_00]: Three, yeah, this will be his third option this year, which again, kind of gets you into that point where all of the sudden

38:49.675 --> 38:56.278
[SPEAKER_00]: your because we've always been talk with paralysis of okay well this is a guy who could maybe start or he ends up in the pen.

38:56.318 --> 38:59.348
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to move him to the pen.

38:59.581 --> 39:12.478
[SPEAKER_00]: You kind of want to do that ideally before you run out of like you kind of want to have some option years that's kind of the value of a pen guy is to have a young guy who's got option years and you know, give you quality and things in the pen.

39:13.299 --> 39:15.262
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's you know, they get that's where they kind of moved.

39:15.622 --> 39:21.690
[SPEAKER_00]: They've moved it on to another guy who they have a little bit more time before they make need to make any decisions like that with.

39:21.670 --> 39:22.651
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

39:22.832 --> 39:35.189
[SPEAKER_01]: And the nationals are a great learning spot for Parallis because they're going to have the opportunity not only if they want to, not only to let them develop, you know, for plenty of the year, use a 40 men spot on a guy who's going to spend a lot of the year in the minors, right?

39:35.229 --> 39:39.194
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can let him have four months, five months in the AAA rotation.

39:39.775 --> 39:46.024
[SPEAKER_01]: And then maybe give him a look at the at the end of year or stash him for the whole thing, you know, whatever.

39:46.004 --> 39:51.372
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I guess, uh, I guess, yeah, that wouldn't be able to delay the service time clock on him.

39:51.392 --> 40:11.083
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, so maybe not, right, because it's going to have to be in the big leagues by, uh, by the beginning of 2027, so you probably call them up late in the year, but, um, they will be able to give him runway to develop in the miners on his own schedule, get that big league call up in the rotation at the end of the season and, uh, and probably carrying into 27, they can continue.

40:11.063 --> 40:21.543
[SPEAKER_01]: to give them that opportunity in the rotation if if they think that that path is still there, where's the red sucks needs someone who's going to be an immediate rotation contributor if they're going to have a spot in the big vegetation.

40:22.986 --> 40:25.731
[SPEAKER_00]: That'll at least the last question I'll ask you because you mentioned the nationals.

40:26.533 --> 40:30.861
[SPEAKER_00]: How much does the nationals obviously hire Paul Toboney?

40:30.908 --> 40:43.783
[SPEAKER_00]: And not just him, but there was a kind of like obviously whenever that happens, you expect that you're going to see some people leave also to go with and kind of move up and get promotions because they're going to a new regime.

40:45.285 --> 40:50.131
[SPEAKER_00]: How much is there, again, a little bit of a brain drain?

40:50.631 --> 40:53.254
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a good problem for an organization to have.

40:53.335 --> 41:00.443
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're having people who are in relatively high roles,

41:00.676 --> 41:01.678
[SPEAKER_00]: get to run their own team.

41:03.022 --> 41:08.815
[SPEAKER_00]: But do you think that you're going to see like that the Red Sox will see much of an impact from these kind of moves like this?

41:09.056 --> 41:13.707
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it something where, well, that's just kind of the price of the normal price of doing business?

41:15.492 --> 41:33.906
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the extent of high level of high level hires elsewhere like has to be felt to some degree, right, like so it's not just polypony, you mentioned the devan Pearson who had been their director of amateur scouting is now over with the nationals as an assistant to him who's going to be in charge of player development.

41:33.886 --> 41:39.672
[SPEAKER_01]: Jake Bremel, who had been the assistant director or a player of rather amateur scouting, moves up the ladder.

41:39.852 --> 41:53.706
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you have relative continuity, but still people getting used to people getting used to the new chair, and without benefit of kind of the institutional wisdom of the previous people who helped that job, because both Boney and Pearson are gone.

41:54.087 --> 41:58.111
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jake Bremel is going to be doing this in many ways, like he has a lot to do on.

41:58.131 --> 41:59.472
[SPEAKER_01]: He is like he,

41:59.452 --> 42:06.391
[SPEAKER_01]: He does the amount of mentoring that would normally go on for that first year in that position isn't there, right?

42:07.033 --> 42:15.115
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are different people in the Red Sox organization who can provide that kind of feedback, but it's a different dynamic and you have.

42:15.095 --> 42:23.472
[SPEAKER_01]: not only the two of them, but you also have field coordinator and Andrew Wright who had been had a huge role in player development.

42:23.733 --> 42:25.336
[SPEAKER_01]: He's now with the national as well.

42:25.978 --> 42:35.297
[SPEAKER_01]: You also have Justin Willard who had been the Red Sox director of pitching, basically overseeing their minor league pitching infrastructure.

42:35.277 --> 42:36.038
[SPEAKER_01]: He's gone too.

42:36.198 --> 42:37.501
[SPEAKER_01]: So they they promote from within.

42:37.541 --> 42:44.492
[SPEAKER_01]: They promote Ben Buck who had been a coordinator, coordinator of the upper levels to be overseeing the whole enchilada.

42:44.532 --> 42:48.438
[SPEAKER_01]: But nonetheless, like again, you're dealing with you're dealing with different dynamics.

42:48.478 --> 42:53.345
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that one is maybe like that one that there's more continuity there, right?

42:53.406 --> 43:00.036
[SPEAKER_01]: Because because he'll still be able to work with you know, work with Andrew Bailey at the majorly level, work with

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[SPEAKER_01]: Craig Breslow is obviously heavily invested in the pitching development side of things, but yeah, I think that, again, I'm not sure if I would characterize it as, well, you know, there are talented front office people who are no longer there and so there has, there's a necessary reconfiguration that will occur in the wake of that, but, you know, whether, how, how that manifests itself, whether for good or for bad, that that one's, that one's going to be tricky to put a finger on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: for years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Alex, again, it's always fun to talk a talk baseball with you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I look forward to hopefully running into you in Fort Myers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if not that, I know we'll run into each other at some point down the road, probably in Philly at the least, when we get to all star week features game and the draft and all that running together in a kind of

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[SPEAKER_00]: But thank you again, and if you did enjoy this, please like and subscribe and tell your friends.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We always want to continue to grow the baseball America podcast as well as the YouTube channel at Baseball America.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, if you're enjoying this, and you haven't, I can't imagine that you've gotten this far and you haven't gotten the Baseball America come.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if so, go check out Baseball America.com.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For Alex, I'm JJ, so long everybody.