I think the greatest sign of manhood is being

willing to be led by God and led

by his spirit and prayer positions you to be led.

Very seldom people talk about

having a praying dad and I think that has to

shift but it doesn't shift unless

we have the maturity to acknowledge I have to get

on my knees because I cannot.

It's that place of I can't that actually strengthens

you to be able to do it.

Are the people that I'm surrounding myself with

really helping me and really

challenging me to get to where I know God has

called me to be? And I think

that's a very important thing because who you

surround yourself with also is

going to help you where you're trying to get to

in life.

This is the Made to Advance podcast. I'm your

host Brian Aulick. We're here to

inspire and equip you for your best future. Hey

everybody it is so good to be

with you on Made to Advance and man we got some

great stuff coming today but

before we get started if you could rate and

review us that helps us get the word

out to more and more people so that would be a

huge help. Also we're talking

about doing an episode coming up where we just

respond to questions that we've

received from our listening audience and so if

you've got a question you would

like us to wrestle with here at Made to Advance

you can email it to

madetoadvance@engeddychurch.com. Made to Advance

at engeddychurch.com. Take all

those questions and we'll see what we can respond

to with an upcoming episode.

Well today is gonna be a little bit different

because a couple of years ago

here to Getty Church we had a men's conference

and part of that conference

was a pastor panel where I invited some of my

good pastor friends in and we just

we just responded to a number of different

questions but the reviews of

that experience were so strong in fact it was one

of the most appreciated

elements of the entire men's conference and I

thought man this would be really

really cool to make available to our Made to

Advance audience and so without

further ado enjoy. Well we have got something fun

today that I've been

looking forward to for a long time and we've got

a panel of pastors some of my

favorite pastors in the world so pastors come on

up if you're on my panel and I've

been I've been so excited about this. Welcome our

pastors. Can we do that

everybody?

So these guys are fighting which seat they're

gonna take. I got all right cool

we're good we're good I love it. So one of the

things that I wanted to do and

and this I don't know why God put this in my

heart months and months ago is I

wanted to have a bunch of pastors up here with me

and I'll tell you what I

hope I hope you guys say something good up here

today okay I really I really do

but watch this even if you don't this has already

been successful for me and

and here's why because I wanted all of you guys

to see a bunch of dudes who

lead churches who love each other and are for

each other and don't compete

with each other okay that's what I want you to

see up here we got it we got a

team of guys and this is true for so many other

pastor I'd that honestly

fellas the hard thing for me was which pastors do

I invite because there's so

many great pastors I know and and we all root for

each other and we all pray for

each other we all share the hard stuff if you

guys discovered ministry can be

hard sometimes I mean maybe your churches don't

have any hard people

probably but it's just in Getty I don't know I

don't know but um but we got each

other's backs and and and you guys have had my

backs over my back don't have

multiple backs just just the one but um you guys

have had my back for for over

the years some of you more than others just

because the time of relationship

and I'm just I'm grateful for all of you so just

honestly I hope something good

comes out of this for them but you just being up

here is a gift to me so thank

you for being here can we thank him again for

being here

all right so maybe you'd like to know who they

are though so we'll do some

introductions we'll start with Roger tell us here

here's what I want you to

do tell us who you are what church you're part of

and then also one manly

thing that you enjoy all right see how I said

that one manly thing that you enjoy

I'm trying to get my lungs voice going here if I

can here it comes all right go

ahead Roger hey come on Tommy hinted yeah I'm the

pastor of in getting a

spaniel and so for those of you don't know me I'm

Roger Cruz and one of the

manliest thing that I do is crossfit it is crazy

it's intense it kills me every

time but that's the manliest thing that I do

right now nice nice all right that's

good welcome right I thought for a second you

said cross stitch and I was

like all right you are confident your manhood

that's impressive yeah yeah

never heard of that myself I I'm knitting you

know it's all about the

knitting for me so all right take us away Josh

yeah my name is Josh Shockey

we're in downtown Detroit at Motor City Church

and oh come on Detroit appreciate

it and I don't know manliest thing it probably

lifting weights I brought my

workout partner today he came with me from

Detroit so if I'm not looking in

shape wall just blame him he's the one that's

been leading the work on is your

partner do you know sorry who's your partner

I'm sorry he's on it came with yeah yeah he's a

Holland native my man my man

looks like I'm not gonna say anything about the

way all right good glad to

have you what a manly thing lift weights go let's

go to lungs yeah my name is

lungs McKellar and I my wife and I had family

lead a church called sozo City

Church in Chicago and so we love we love it I'm

quite like I'm in bad company

it's CrossFit lifting weights while I chase

around a white ball and I love

golf that's the manliest thing I do with it my

name is Eric Fulkers my wife Erica

and I lead a church called Foundry Church we're

neighbors within Getty I

love Brian I love being here yeah fellas and you

came from all the way for the

foundries located in Zealand Zealand Michigan

what a sacrifice he's made to

be with us all here you know the long way I serve

the way I can here so and

the manliest thing I love to do I super wanted to

say sex but that's not

appropriate so I'm not gonna say that but I would

say the manliest thing I

like to do I love and there's a little bit of redneck

in me I love shooting

prairie dogs and that is manly it's awesome it's

wrong but it's lovely if

it's wrong I don't want to be right all right by

the way y'all you should be

jealous for those of us who are in ministry I kid

you not off this true for

you guys I laugh harder when I hang out with

pastors than any other group of

people on the face of the planet oh my gosh so

let's we're gonna get serious

now all right y'all ready to get serious for a

minute all right here we go so I

want to ask if you guys were just thinking about

a singular quality that

for you is is really at the center of biblical

manhood what comes to mind a

singular quality and we'll just have somebody

jump in and get after it here

yeah I mean I would say print I think it's print

because no greater active

dependency than print and I think the greatest

sign of manhood is being

willing to be led by God and led by his spirit

and prayer positions you to be

led prayer is the greatest act of strength it's

the greatest act of wisdom

it's the greatest act of grace because you again

you surrender yourself to his

power within us and I think that's the most

biblical and godly thing you can do

is to lead your family and yourself in prayer so

good so good and by the way

y'all and this would be true for the rest of the

day and oh my gosh I can't

wait you guys I got a message prepared for later

I'm just telling you God put

it on my heart like six months ago and it's been

burning for so long so I'm

man I hope you're all here for that but why am I

saying that oh because if they

say something you resonate with we're like an

amen preach whatever kind of

culture if you haven't picked that up I know

about a quarter from a Getty so

feel free to be like come on somebody so somebody

else a biblical quality of

manhood that just jumps out to you I would say

having a servant's heart I

mean what did Jesus say he said I came not to be

served but to serve so you're

never more like Jesus than when you're serving

someone that's good it takes a

heart of humility to really say you know it's not

about myself I'm gonna put

others before me it's good thank you so for me I'm

always kind of big picture

details have never been like a skill but but big

picture and and one of the big

pictures God's given me in this is that Greek

word prowess which is which is

when Jesus said come to me you who are weary and

heavy laden for I am gentle

and lowly that word gentle when Jesus says in the

Beatitudes blessed are the

meek for they will inherit the earth the word meek

is prowess it's a Greek word

it was to define a war horse in Greek and it

means this strength under

control there it is we are to be strong but we

are to be under control and

biblical manhood is not weak it is strength under

control and so when I

hear like the prayer and servanthood that is

those are those are the details

of that kind of concept of strength under control

so good I love it I love

it go ahead Roger yeah I was gonna jump in I was

gonna say love I know that's

not the the biggest one that a lot of men would

identify with but it's

definitely one that we're called to yeah and that's

to love the Lord with all of

our hearts but not just that but it's also to be

in loving relationship with

others and I think that's one of the ones that I

feel like God is just really

pressed in my heart - how do I'm loving towards

God but I'm also loving towards

others I love it so good man those are those are

all great answers when you

agree come on love that so we you know we all

have the privilege as pastors

is and you guys all have this you've got your own

your own congregations and so

we're talking with guys all the time from all

different backgrounds multiple

cities represented and I would I would love to

hear what from you guys is

perspective and I know this is a tough one but is

like the biggest issue you

see guys wrestling with and and how do you

counsel how do you counsel guys when

you when you see them you know when they come to

you with that issue or you can

or you can see signs of it in their life so yeah

Roger why don't you start us you

I know you left us but like you want to yeah

absolutely yeah for me I think it's

identity one of the biggest things that I've seen

within even my own cultural

context of men that I lead is identity one of the

biggest issues I see is a lot

of Latino men don't really belong to their

natural culture after they've been

in the US for a couple years it's like this thing

of like I don't really belong

there but I no longer belong here either and

under in this limbo of like trying

to identify like who am I really where do I fit

in maybe that doesn't pertain

to you but maybe it's you're trying to identify

with somebody in the culture

that's telling you this is what a man should look

like this is how you oughta

live this is how you oughta be and you're trying

to find in these places of

like I need to fit in here I need to fit in there

and one of the things that I've

come to realize that if you are in that place in

a way it's a good place to be

because ultimately it comes back to Christ

ultimately it comes back to we

oughta identify with who Christ is and God calls

us to be imitators not of our

surroundings not of our of our cultures not even

of our natural belongings or

backgrounds or where we came from but ultimately

to be identified to who Jesus

is and we ought to be imitators of Christ so that's

my encouragement to

men if you are battling right now you're like I

just don't know where I fit in

you might be in a good place because maybe God

didn't call you to fit in I

didn't call you to fit into the culture he called

you to be an imitator of Jesus

Christ yeah so good so good I love that because

what you're saying is in some

ways when we have this equilibrium in our

identity that can be a good thing if

it causes us to root out the false identities and

come back to Jesus I love

that what about the rest of you guys what do you

see with issues the guys

face and and how do you counsel them I would say

something I see especially

with a lot of young men is comparison constantly

looking around and comparing

your life to others and what ends up happening is

that you can continuously

compare your life to others you feel like you're

not enough and I'll counsel

with a lot of people who in their 20s 30s and

they're like yeah but this guy's

got and I'm like bro he's 70 yeah he's taking him

a lifetime to do this and

what you see a lot of is when you see that

comparison and somebody's trying to

obtain something so quick and fast that they will

put their priorities out of

order yeah and so it's it's constantly keeping

your priorities in order going

it's God first yeah and I'm not gonna let

anything get in the way of that

relationship that I have with the Lord oh man

that's so good so good yeah how

about the rest of you guys I think this is

definitely not unique to Chicago but

I think it's definitely heightened where we are

just the pace of life cost of

living this this real again this weight and

pressure to provide in an economy

that's not you know not not friendly in a city

that's very expensive in a

culture that doesn't I mean stuff like this this

is not the normal in a place

like I think this is why I think take a moment

and take all this in because this

is not normal what what Brian and the team here

built here is is really I

think for me a picture of heaven and a picture of

what we long to see across

the pond because again culturally Chicago is anti-christian

in many many

ways and so how do you how do you lead your

family how do you keep your faith

how do you navigate the pressures of providing

financially how do you raise

your kid in a godly man in a place or they're not

how do you keep up with the

pace and I think one of the biggest challenges we

faced and hearing from the

men in our church is I just don't feel like I can

do it all I'm not enough and

they might not say it out loud in different ways

but it comes out they're

going I just don't know if I can keep up and I

can do all that's required of me

and that can that can lead to a lot of issues

because then they're looking for

outlets whether it's alcohol or different outlets

you know you don't

have to go through the whole list we know what

they are different coping

mechanisms that actually lead to more destruction

what do you say to them and

so what I've often said to them is this you

actually can't yeah that is the very

first and greatest acknowledgement you can do is

you actually cannot which is

why I said what I said about prayer being the

greatest act of manhood godly

manhood is to recognize I can't and I have to get

on my knees daily because I

cannot lead this family I cannot keep up with the

demands I cannot lead myself

without the grace and wisdom straight from heaven

and so it's really leading

me into that place of absolute vulnerability

getting on your knees and

you know we've often heard you know people talk

about I had a praying

grandmother a praying mother very seldom people

talk about having a praying dad

mmm and I think that has to shift but it doesn't

shift unless we have the

maturity to acknowledge I have to get on my knees

because I cannot it's that

place of I can't that actually strengthens you to

be able to do it all

yeah come on guys are starting to steal my sermon

from me for later but Eric

about you I mean can I just say yes and in the

end I don't want to make noise

that would take away from what that was said I

mean that that's it amen yeah

amen yeah that's good learn something one of the

things I think that that guys

face uniquely and I didn't have to ask you guys

if you agree with this but I

feel this is attention so I suspect it's not just

me is I feel like on the one

hand we need to be models of strength and and you

know be foundations for our

families and and for other guys around us so on

the one hand we've got a

message I think a good biblical message of be

strong and all this then we've got

this other tension of be authentic and be okay

with being weak and stuff like

that and I'm just wondering if you can help me

navigate how you do both of

those at the same time how do I how do I model

straight just give it to Eric I

like that yeah we're just gonna look at you

because you're the only one who

didn't wear a black today so apparently yeah

someone clearly wasn't listening to

the Lord I love safe spaces yeah oh man I think

the reality is we all are broken

somewhere and to pretend that is idolatry and it's

wrong and it's sin so

if you're if you're strong you know where your

weaknesses are and you

compensate - you bring strength to weakness and

you build around yourself

with that and I would say in my friendships I don't

I don't hang out

with overly competitive people because I will I

would push my grandmother down

the stairs to win right it's a negative trait no

I would God rest her soul I

would have to is she still with us there oh she's

not I mean it felt wrong was

that a confession yeah I'll be leaving in the

backseat of a car but but for me

it really comes back to like can can I be honest

with people when I just say

like this is an area where I really struggle I'm

not strong here yeah I'm

afraid when I do this can you teach me can I get

under your wing and learn or

can can you be a strength to me because when I do

that other people begin to

feel free to be like well you're strong in this

thing I'm not and it opens up a

vulnerability that but if it's if it's fake you

know if you're like I'm not

really good at this and then you dominate you're

like you're a doorknob

what are you doing you know so you've got to be

honest with it but I like to

surround myself with people who are so much

better than me in so many areas

because then my weaknesses do grow yeah that's

good really good thank you yeah

you got something else look like right now I was

pointing Josh oh yeah what

anybody else got wisdom on this subject this

tension I think when it comes to

this conversation about not feeling like what you

were saying so brilliantly

like feeling like you're enough you got to

remember who you have access to and I

had this I had this thought as I was listening to

Frank do his breakout

session he's showing like the Blue Angels and all

of this stuff and I just

thought what is it like if he ever flies

commercial you know and he gets on he

sees the pilots and then he's just chilling in

the back you know and I

thought what if something went wrong you know yet

they got this guy in the back

that knows way more and how to do this right and

I thought about man we can't

do it all but we've got access as a believer to

the Holy Spirit that lives

within us the same power that rose Christ from

the dead and then here we

are going man man I just feel weak it's like by

ourselves we are so you've got

a you've got to remember who you have access to

there it is and allow him to

give you the strength to get through yeah yeah

that's cool anybody else want

to jump in on this one yeah I was gonna jump in I

was gonna say you know we are

called to be strong and that's one of the things

that I think we have to be

able to position ourselves in the places where

God is calling us and he's saying

be strong in this moment be bold in this moment

be be straightforward in this

moment I know we've hit a little bit on

weaknesses but I feel like oftentimes

men have forgotten their position of like God has

called you to be strong and

he's called you to lead in the places of your

work he's called you to lead in

your marriage he's called you to lead to your

children and I think there's this

position of where God's like I put you there but

I've also given you the

strength to do that and you got to stand in boldness

you got to stand firm in

what God has given you and he has placed you so

it's okay to be strong as long as

you know and understand where my position is and

the calling that God has

placed over my life as a man in my house in my

job wherever I'm at yeah so good

so good yeah I feel like in some ways like with

what it means I wouldn't want

to try to be what we think of as a biblical man

apart from the power of

Jesus in my life I feel like it's too much

honestly I would I would fail and I

would feel overwhelmed every day and I if I if I

didn't know that I've got the

Holy Spirit at work in my life and that and that's

where like for and I know we

had some guys last night that that you gave your

life to Jesus which is the

best decision you ever made in your life all

right that's amazing it's amazing

and and some of you are gonna make that I bet

some of you are gonna make that

decision today but listen it's important honestly

everything we're saying right

now you know it's easy to write some stuff down

in your notebook like oh yeah

I got to be more that I got to do some more of

that I got to make that change

and listen all of it you're like you're gonna

fail royally at all of it if you

don't first give your life to Jesus because what

we're talking about today

is way more difficult than anything you can pull

off on your own you need the

Holy Spirit in your life you need the power of

God in your knife you need some

resurrection in your life all right so that's the

first step now this is I

want to talk about friendships a little bit guys

can struggle with friendships

and and I want to I want to just ask you guys

when you think of some of the more

meaningful friendships that you've had in your

life what what made them stand

out is like man that was a killer friendship that

that impacted me this

wasn't just you know I mean I do like to make fun

of golfers don't get me wrong

but that wasn't just golfing like that was that

was more than that all right

and and how did you develop practically for the

guy in the room who's like well

that sounds good but I mean I don't even know

where to start with that like how

did you get to that place with a friendship that

was actually impactful

in your life I mean I'd suck so it actually works

with the last question

you asked even about I think for you know when we

acknowledge our weaknesses

we realize what I've seen can happen is that if

you don't have these godly

friendships or spaces you'll end up doing one of

two things you won't share

your weaknesses with anybody which then it'll

actually kill you because it stays

in the dark and the enemy can go can go to work

on you in that area or two

because you don't have a space or God godly

friends you'll dump on anybody and

everybody which actually diminishes your capacity

to lead so I would say for me

some of the best godly friendships I have are

spaces that I intentionally

went to and got vulnerable and I told people who

I trusted we have to find

trusted spaces we can't divulge everything to

everybody you have to find

so for me it took me getting vulnerable people I

looked up to who possessed

strength who possessed aptitude in the areas

where I knew I was vulnerable and

I had to take the first step I think too often we

wait and go somebody somebody

will see that I need help somebody will no one's

coming doc you have to take the

first step and so I went and took a first step

with a few key people in my

life and I had to go here's why I need help which

is hard for us to say but it

actually unlocks what we need so I had to own it

and ask them for help and

those friendships have become strong and I think

they are my best friendships

because they're the spaces because I got

vulnerable it opened the door to my

friends to ask me the tough questions and no one

else can we we don't realize

that people actually need permission to speak

into your life and many of us

don't have that because you're not open the door

to it yeah and my best

friendships of the doors I've opened and those

people can speak really aptly

really poignantly and really straightforward

going hey I've seen this

hey how you doing in this area who do you have in

your life who loves you

enough to look you in the eye and tell you what

you need to hear really good

that's so good hey let me let me say something

about that too one of the

things that I love about what I would consider

manly men is manly men take

initiative and and manly men do not sit there and

blame and play the victim card

and say well I don't have any friends I don't

know why nobody's calling me

nobody's texting me nobody's reaching out I love

what you said there if you're

gonna be a man a man about friendships you're

gonna go seek out those

friendships if they're not in your life already

you're gonna take some

initiative and some ownership so that's so good

Roger you're gonna say something

yeah and I think part of the reason why we don't

do that is because we probably

have past hurts so an example for me personally

was like my dad walked out of

my life when I was eight years old so I was used

to like who do I trust when the

people that are supposed to love me the most are

no longer there and that

developed into my friendships like I don't want

to be too close with somebody

I don't want to be too open with somebody because

I'm afraid they're

gonna end up leaving me again and it got to a

place where I started to feel

lonely I got to a place where like I started to

see like people have

community here there's friendships here there's

friendships there and then

growing up and I'm like who are my friends I don't

really have friends so I

had to learn to trust again I had to learn to

open up and be vulnerable but

the more I started to do that the more I started

to realize how helpful that is

and then I also had to walk into a point in my

life where like I had to really

ask myself the question are the people that I'm

surrounding myself with really

helping me and really challenging me to get to

where I know God has called me to

be so good and I think that's a very important

thing because who you

surround yourself with also is going to help you

where you're trying to get to

in life and and that is very important so I had

to learn the two things how do

I let the guard down again to trust people but

also make sure I surround

myself with the right people that are gonna care

for me be there for me and

build me up so I just want to encourage you to do

the same yeah it's so good I

don't know it's interesting as you're saying that

I read this stat I might be

misquoting it but I don't think I am that they

said something like the the

your level of income will be like the average of

the three people you that you

hang out with the most does anybody heard what I'm

talking about before is

this you got that okay so so here's a we've been

hanging out with pastas I

need some new friends I'm done with you chokers I'm

out

my gosh what this is brand new to me I remember I

remember hearing that stat

about that average of the three friends and I

thought how many other areas in

life is that true not not just with income like

oh how many how many you

know how much does the people I'm hanging out

with how much they make but

what about their character what about the kind of

men they are I just with

what you're saying Roger about you you end up

reflecting those guys and if you

don't have any guys that are that are pushing you

I mean I don't know you're

not gonna be going many places how about other

guys on friendships so for me I

think it's incredibly important my best friend is

my wife there will never be a

guy closer to me than Erica because because there's

nothing she doesn't know

which I oh dear God but yeah that's how it goes

because if we're gonna be as

close as best friends are there can't be that so

I don't have any friends that

ever want to compete with her if you want Erica's

spot you just yeah well I'm

serious there's guys who want to be so close you

know like that's not your

place but if I have brothers iron sharpens iron

guys who are like you know

hey how is your marriage how are these things

that matter in your life and they

and they recognize station in life that there is

this friendship that I think

it's one of the things I respect about you most

Brian is you and Christina you

guys are tight and you do this together and it's

one of the models I had in my

head when when we started the foundry was like I

want to do this together with

my wife I want to be together with her and and

the reality is you've got to

choose people who value that and some of the

people you like the most don't value

that mmm and it's said that again some of the

people you like the most don't

value that that principal relationship in your

life and you have to be honest

and you have to be willing to cut bait with

people you like to be around the

people who will grow you oh my gosh so good so

good so good

we're all dropping the mic on each other right

now okay anybody else want to weigh

in on friendships yeah I would say when it comes

to friendships for me one of

the things I try to think about often is what

does this person pull out of me

right like in the book of Romans 1 it talks about

how the culture it brings

you it says to its level of immaturity but it

says God brings the best out of

you yeah last night we stayed in a hotel in town

from Detroit and this morning

there was a Starbucks in the lobby and - who came

traveled with me we were just

laughing right we had been in Starbucks we were

laughing and this lady who was

in her 70s walks up and she goes you two are

believers hmm and I was like how does

she know that and she goes y'all have so much joy

and love Wow and as I thought

about it it's he's pulling that out of me right

and so when you evaluate your

friendships you got to ask what is this person

bringing out of me are they

constantly dragging me down to their level of immaturity

or they going man I

see more in you I feel like God's got a calling

on your life and they're pulling

that out of you though all of the fruits of the

spirit yeah that's so good so

good I love that she could see that - you can see

it see that you guys's lives -

that's so good that ought to be the case for all

of us I want to shift gears a

little bit and talk about the sphere of being a

dad now everybody up here is a

dad and I want to talk about fathering because

you know fathering is going to

be for all of us whether you have a good dad a

bad dad a no dad that relationship

is going to be key and it's going to shape it's

going to shape Roger already

got at this a little bit it's going to shape how

you live and it's going to

shape how you see manhood and so I thought it

would be good for us to just

spend a minute talking about fathering and this

is this I want you to listen

out of two ways some of your dads right now and

obviously listen as dads some of

your dads but you're also sons and and and and

all of us are sons even if your

dad or not so there's all I think that as we're

listening here I just I'm just

praying that some of us got some tremendous great

dad models and some of

us got some vacuums where we would have liked to

have some dad models and some

of us got some big dad hurts and I I've just been

praying hey we could have a

conversation about being fathers and that maybe

the Holy Spirit could use

this to bring some encouragement maybe even some

healing as we're just talking

about as we're talking about fatherhood so yeah

just if you guys have some

pastoral advice when it comes to as a big subject

I know but just some

pastoral advice when it comes to being a great

dad what would you say yeah I can

start off I would say just be present and what I

mean by that I got a I got a

four-year-old son he'll be four actually on

Sunday and my daughter is six and

they take a lot of energy out of me honestly and

obviously ministry takes a

lot of work some of you guys probably work 12-hour

shifts or you run a

business and you're you're just you're just busy

busy go-go mode but the big

thing that I've learned is like my kids are not

asking eight hours of me but

they want me to be present when I'm there with

them and so one of the things

that I've learned is that I at least block out 30

minutes to an hour a day

just to be present and what that means is I've

probably given a lot of energy

to work and to other areas of my life but in

those 30 minutes to an hour I'm

doing horseback rides I'm playing robot I'm

playing all these silly games of

hide-and-seek and all this stuff but all I'm

doing is I'm being present and I

also give my kids something to look forward to

and so rather that's like hey

this weekend we're gonna do this hey this year we're

gonna take this trip but

all I'm doing is in those moments in those times

I'm letting them know hey

yes I'm busy yeah there's a lot of things that

occupy me out of the home

but when I'm with you I'm going to be present

with you you're gonna know what

you're gonna feel it and that's the best advice

that I can give you your kids

don't want all your time but they want you to be

present

how many of you're glad we got Roger Cruz as

pastor of Engedde Espanol come

on can't believe he's on our team oh my goodness

all right talks about being

dads I would say for me it's been the this didn't

happen in my childhood I was

raised more honor culture of you know there's it's

very pyramid shape there you

don't question the people in charge I never heard

I was I'm sorry I apologized

to my kids all the time for obvious reasons I

mean it's not like well

clearly you should but um but the reality for me

is I apologize to my

children I've asked them to forgive me because I'm

human and I showed them the

the rawness of what that's like I've told them

about why I've lost friends

when they asked like what happened there I just

say like look I was a doorknob I

was arrogant I did this or whatever happened and

and my kids my kids don't

see me as Superman but when anything in their

life rattles they come running

because they do look they know I'm not invincible

but they but they know I'm

approachable so I would say that's big and then I

would just 100% echo what you

said Roger be present love is spelled T I M E

spend a little bit of time joy I

lose it fortnight at least twice a week I hate

fortnight I don't lose it madden

and they drive some nuts I like they don't know I

watch YouTube on I'm like

what should I do here cuz I'm done like they

would beat me and so I'll let them

get to a Super Bowl and they're undefeated cuz

you know that happens in

real life and they're like I'm gonna dominate you

and then I just wax the

floor with them I'm like you're gonna be okay big

fella cuz I own you I do that I

do that in all honesty with them like I I play

with them I play with them I

protect my my daughter I cheat when a boy asked

to date her I can I be super

blunt in this a boy asked to date her and I like

him and I'm like yes I think

you're a great young man keep your dick in your

pants or I'll feed it to you and

so what you meant by that or so when you say I

don't know but here's the thing

for my daughter my daughter I said him I'm not

giving her to you she's not

yours and so I'll speak to that and she came back

to me and she goes dad what

she calls me peeler peeler what did you say he's

shaking I'm like great I'm not

gonna clean a gun in front of him and act weird

but but so it's it's not if

you're like I think I had a better dad than I

realized yeah right but here's

the thing you do those things and it's you do

life with him and in such a way

that there's not a lot of pretense you're real

and you're present and they

see you warts and all and and the weird thing is

they love you warts and all

that's I think that for for both of my boys I

mean we've we've walked through

and they've walked through some difficult things

and you know it's

always it's there's still like a father resort

sort of like pastoral wisdom that

comes on what you share with your kids and what's

the right time and how deep

and real do you go but I'll tell you my boys

would both get up here and tell you

I've gotten real with them on a hundred percent

on stuff I mean sexual stuff

sexual brokenness of my past bumps in the road

that Christina and I have had

trying to navigate it all particularly in the

early years I mean they've heard

it and and and and more right they've heard that

the screw-ups and the

temptations and all that stuff now I didn't it

wasn't like hey Jared you're

four now I need to tell you about mom and my sex

life all right no no no no

but we've had some super transparent

conversations and bless God we continue

to do that all right that's such a big deal yeah

somebody else on fatherhood

yeah I'd say I have a very unique relationship

with fatherhood because I

didn't grow up with the dad and I felt like for

me father fatherhood was

building the plane while flying it because I wasn't

I didn't inherit a

fully functioning plane so I spent so much of the

early days my kids are still

young I think six four four and baby girls five

five months old so they're

relatively young but I spent those first probably

two three years of being a dad

fighting and trying to spending so much energy

just trying not to be like mine

that I stopped actually becoming who I wanted to

become and there's a book by

Paul Scanlon I'm not my father and he did a whole

study on all these men who

grew up with father the fatherlessness as their

story and almost 90% of fathers

who whose whole mission was not to be like their

dads and they're becoming

like their dads because again you put the focus

on what you're not wanting to

be and not the emphasis on who you wanted to

become and so there was this

really great pivot moment for me as I looked at

my at the time he was my only

son Titus and my next son was about to be born

and I just remember going I've

got to be something for them to model I can't

teach him how to evade I've got to

teach him how to build and grow and so you know

it took a lot again

vulnerability and get into space of going okay I've

got to find people who I

can model and actually determine who we wanted to

become and in that it's also

shaped even how I parent I think really I've got

had this philosophy show your

kids let your kids see in you what you want them

to become that's right and so

I let my kids do Bible reading with me I don't

lock myself in a closet and go

don't disturb daddy I'm doing my quiet time I'm

doing my prayer I bring him

into that I want to show them how to pray I want

to show them how to worship

so in our house we worship together frequently

before dinner sometimes the

boys are naked and just come out and do it and

say okay don't do that in the

house of God do it in this house it's a different

conversation going Genesis 1

2 on us right there I like that but you know all

this it's it's it's it's the be

present it's that I've tried to all that but I

think the biggest thing I've

decided I want to give my kids is a blueprint for

them a really built plane

on how to live this thing out called faith and so

that's been a game changer

can I ask a question so when you're doing your

quiet you're like devotion

time and stuff if your kids interrupt you you

because I've always been like

hey let me finish right tell me more about it is

that so it's not even

interruption I actually invite him in so I got

challenged probably about three

four months ago I was doing some study on the

Jewish culture and history and

realizing actually by the age of 12 most Jewish

boys had memorized the entirety

of the first five books of the Bible and I looked

at our shelf at our kids Bibles

and kids resources for reading and I thought we've

dumbed down our kids are

really intelligent and the Spirit of God that

lives in me lives in them they can

handle real scriptures so I did a major pivot now

I'll wake up my oldest son

because he's six and he's at the point where he

can actually understand and

I'll bring him in and I'll show him how I do my

devotion so we'll read it

together we'll dumb it down and then we'll do

their own specific reading in

the evening which my wife really kind of leads

the charge on that and I want to

again for them to see that again a biblical

marriage is not just men but

women also lead and and actually can take things

forward so I've brought him

in and praying so my both of my kids sometimes

wake up early and they'll and

if I hear them wake up I'll stop praying I'll

bring him in I'll teach him how to

pray yeah so that has been a it's a recent shift

because of a challenge

going I think our kids can do this I love that

and that overall idea long as

that you're getting at of giving your kids an

example that they can see it go

down and whatever it may be those you're talking

specifically in that case about

some spiritual disciplines which is fantastic

sometimes I'll hear couples

say like oh we never fight in front of our kids

well I get that I get that to a

scent in a sense I get that there are places and

times where you don't want to

put it all in front of the kids I get work that

can be destabilizing and all

those things so there it for sure there's a time

and place where hey we're

gonna do this offline and the kids aren't gonna

watch but that being said I

think there's a place to get some work through

some tensions in front of the

kids I think there's a place for saying some hard

things and all that I want my

I want my kids to be able to say yeah we saw mom

and dad mix it up a little bit

and and and I we saw them work through that hard

moment you know and and so

just in general thinking about what's it look I

want I want them to see you know

dad hanging out with friends you know that's I

mean I basically never saw that

with with my growing up I wanted to see me

messing around and just hanging out

with dudes I want them to see you know I'm saying

and so just be thinking about

how you in general invite your kids you got to be

the real thing right you

that's where it starts you got to be the real

thing but then looking for ways

intentionally to invite kids into the real thing

what you said there's is

profound because again if we don't show our kids

conflict resolution they'll

learn it from somebody else yeah and the benefit

of them watching oh mom dad

fought but they still love each other oh so we

can still continue to love in

disagreement I mean there's so much in that yeah

that's profound yeah other

stuff on fatherhood for any of you guys that you

want to throw out there I think

for me some of the best advice I got on fatherhood

was right as we were planting

Motor City Church three years we now have three

children seven four and nine

months old so my kids were young as we were

planting in the church and one of

the pastors that I have in my life that's a

mentor he just reminded me as

we were planting he said listen you know people

are gonna come and go over the

years at Motor City Church many of them will have

numerous pastors over the

years to come but he said your kids have one

father yeah and so he said you've

got to make sure that you are leading them well

and you know I pastor in an

area where unfortunately there's a lot of people

who grew out grew up without

fathers and fortunately for me I had a beautiful

opportunity to grow up with an

amazing dad as an example so one of the questions

I get a lot of from people in

our church is well if I'm now a father but I didn't

have a father as an example

what do I do and I always tell them you'll find

what you're looking for

right and so what I always often tell people to

do if they didn't have a

father figure in their life growing up look at

somebody that they really admire

and then go who's your dad can I meet with him

Wow and then he'll tell you

hey here's the things that I did well here the

things that I wish I'd have

done differently and and then that way we don't

have to learn from our own

mistakes but we can learn from the people who

have gone before us and say

hey tell me what you did right tell me what you

did wrong that way I don't make

the same mistakes as I'm fathering man that's so

good and I love that point

Josh of saying that our kids I mean you know they're

gonna have all kinds of

different people in their life and all this stuff

right they get one dad they

get one dad that's it and and if you're a dad

right now that's you and sometimes

I read the Old Testament you know people be like

they see some of these crazy

stories of people who says sacrileges I mean

sacrifice children I mean that

that's what they were doing and I don't mean like

metaphorically like kids were

getting sacrificed and we look now and we're like

oh my gosh how barbaric it is

barbaric I'm not and and I'm but I'm gonna make a

parallel here it's not the

same I recognize that we look at that that that

ancient culture of where these

people would sacrifice their children were like

oh my gosh how could they ever

do that it's so evil it's so wrong and can I tell

you when you work so many

hours that you never see your kids you're equivalently

doing the same thing

I mean when you're spending that much time where

you can't invest in them or

you're spending that much time where you're that

much resources where you

can't put towards support man you're doing the

same thing like you're

sacrificing your kids on the altar of whatever it

is you're getting after it

might be your career it might be your hobbies it

might be hanging out with

your buddies and so just that idea your kids only

got one dad and there's no

redo's and can I just say I think that's why it's

so vitally important that we

have this right because like I said I have three

children seven four and nine

months and up into this point I've never had one

of my kids articulate to me dad

you're being a great dad you know however we get

that encouragement being

around other men when people can say hey man I

just want to let you know I know

your kids aren't old enough to understand this

yet but man I see the

work that you're putting into your family that's

keep doing what you're

doing and I think that we need that encouragement

along the way yeah that's

good and and let's just let's let's let also that

be a word to us as sons I get

you know some of us have we all got dads that you

know are you know imperfect and

some are more imperfect than others for sure but

my guess is we could all call

out something to honor in our dads so and maybe

maybe some of us we need to

give a good word to our dads because our dads

feel like they blew it maybe they

largely did and maybe we need to speak a good

word into their lives and and

whatnot and that really does lead me to the last

thing I want to say today or

ask rather whether it whether it's just as dads

or as men we talked a little

bit about failure yesterday but we all have times

where we have just blown it

and it might be on the home front it might be in

in habits and purity issues

it might be on our jobs it's fine whatever and so

for the guy in here

right now who is feeling like a failure for the

guy in here right now who's

feeling like man I jacked up my life and I just

it feels like why even try at

this point what do you speak into their lives

this might sound weird but I would say

congratulations because that's now where

you can begin to start experiencing growth I

think in our culture today we

have a lot of people who don't even see their

need for a savior and I think when

you finally come to the end of yourself realizing

I'm not enough I'm broken I've

made a wreck of my life congrats yeah because now

you're ready to receive and

so that's what I would say is like this isn't

just the end the moment that you

give your life to Christ is not the finish line

that is the starting blocks

and so it doesn't matter if you're in your 60s 70s

or wherever you're at in

your life or if you're in your 20s you know it

doesn't matter where you're at

the moment you give your life to Christ is the

moment that now you're beginning

to live with purpose yeah and so I think that's

probably the best advice I could

give yeah that's so good see what I hear you

saying is your great failure moment

it actually could be your greatest victory from

the standpoint of you're

finally giving your life to Jesus that's it yeah

it's good that's a word of hope

good yeah I'll take this one I think one of the

things that I've had to learn is

really accept that I have failed accept and come

to terms with the fact that I

have messed up and I think the reason why that's

important and that's key is

because oftentimes and this happened to me many

times I just I was brought up in

such a way that all the time I felt like in order

to win something I could not

give in to anything like I am NOT gonna be the

one that you're gonna lose an

argument to because I was taught that you never

lose an argument and you got

to stand your ground and you got to do this and

you got to do that and and so

what I came to realize is that that's not always

helpful this this place of

like trying to be of like I'm never wrong or I

don't admit my faults because

that's weakness and that means I'm a failure and

that means I'm this and the

reality is the moment I started to realize no I

am a failure I do have

shortcomings I do mess up then there's a

beginning work of like okay now I can

tap into what I'm not to become who really I

should be or who really God is

calling me to be and I just want to encourage

some of you men out here today

that maybe you're in a place where you felt like

I just got to fight for

everything and I can't let my guard down but

sometimes that leaks to other things

like I remember being in three four days of

arguments with my wife for something

really stupid just because I didn't want to admit

that I was wrong just because I

didn't want to admit my flaw and and and that's

just where I want to encourage

you like you can't be in a place where you can't

say I did mess up you can't

always live in a place where you can't admit and

tell someone hey I'm sorry

that I said that I'm sorry that I messed up this

way and you're prolonging the

hurt all because you're not willing to step into

and say I need some work in my

life and the best advice that I can give you is

get the help surround yourself

with the right people learn from those that have

really have failed that have

overcome that failure and and just like what we're

speaking today understand

that failure isn't the end of all the results it's

the beginning of something

better and something good for your life but you've

got to sit with the fact that

yes I've messed up yes I have failed and that's

okay.

So in in my life I think one of the areas this

this really it just plays out

is just just I think I like how Chandler said it's

okay not to be okay it's just

not okay to stay there and and recognizing if you

never pause to

recognize like I'm not okay this is this is an

area where I failed where I've

hurt people where I've done something and being

able as a dad to to be the

failure you most are afraid of being and then

allow allow your children your

family to restore you in ways and and for me I

think that that has been so

critical is being known by my family and and

being known for the good and the bad

and then allowing them to speak words of life and

restoration over me so that when

it's time for me to say the thing to a boyfriend

that I never want my daughter

to have to do that so I'm gonna I'm gonna say

something or I say that to my

sons and I do these things they know I'm not

coming from a place of moral

high-ground I'm coming from a place they know and

they've seen and they know like

you're honest about the dangers the pitfalls and

the failures so that they

don't feel like they have to live this glossed

life that you know I love the

fight in front of your kids don't be weird about

it but do those things

because when they see imperfection they know they

could have a good marriage too

because good marriages fight well they just fight

fair right and those things

so for me knowing I've blown it knowing that I'm

sinful by nature my desire is

to exalt me against the glory of God but knowing

also Jesus didn't come to just

for me to justify my sins he came to forgive them

and remove them from me and

when I recognize that that Jesus isn't here to

endorse my justifications he's

here to remove from me that which separates me

from God and those I love

my sin that changed everything

yeah I won't go long I wanted to say this you're

not the only you know the

first and you're not the last I think one of the

greatest lies the enemy is to

have you believe that your sin or your failure is

unique to you you know you're

the only one who's ever done that you're the

first and you're last and so we then

keep it hidden because we feel I can't talk to

anybody about it no one will

understand there's no grace for it because it's

unique and I want to say to

you and I really this is important you're not the

only and you're not the

first and the last yeah and as a follow-up to

that I'd say this do you

still believe in the grace that first saved your

life hmm I think some of the

biggest mistakes that Christians who've been a

Christian a long time is we think

that grace was reserved for only those who come

to the church doors for the

first time it's really the last of Jesus but the

grace of God abounds much and

there's still room at the table for your sin

after 20 30 40 years and some of you

go you don't know exactly how big what I've done

is or how big my failures are

and I'd say this there's provision for that in

the gospel Romans 7 tells us

that where sin abounds grace abounds come on has

made provision for your

failure already yeah the invitation is open to

you today as it was the first

day well that's a fantastic word to end on I hope

you enjoyed that incredible

conversation man I love those guys so much and

they contributed so much

wisdom on what it means to follow Jesus today hey

if you enjoyed it please do

rate and review us that's such an encouragement

to our team this has been

a production of a Getty Church and we've got more

great conversations on the way

and so until next time know you were made to

advance

you

you