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Welcome to the amazing The show for acquisition entrepreneurs,

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search funders and Holdco gold is across the UK and Europe.

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Each week we dive into the real world stories, strategies and challenges

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behind buying and building small businesses.

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So whether you're searching for your first deal

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or you're already running a growing group of companies, this is the place to be.

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This week we're back with an ever popular buy side break down

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and I am, as ever, joined by my green fingered co-host Gareth Wilkins.

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Lights up in called.

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It's been a pretty exciting start to the year.

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Here we are, early February.

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January was full of news of various searches achieving great things.

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A couple of shout outs, I guess, before we get stuck into the main event today.

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Congrats to Margetts and Scott

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Winship, who have got my co partners off the ground.

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Now they were working on it through 2025.

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We met up with them at the Civil Acquirers Symposium for, they launched

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their funded, they've got all the good and the great on their table.

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Walker. Big fonso.

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Miramar.

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Plus a few family offices.

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These guys are incredibly packable. They've.

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I think they visited two startups in the past.

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They've grown some fintechs between them.

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So, yeah, really great to see them off to the races.

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And then the other end of the spectrum, in terms of, you know,

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with the MCO starting their search, ash, Ravi and Novus,

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have got their next acquisition under their belt.

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They're, they're really flying.

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So they've got, recently acquired trade door,

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which is, UK garage door manufacturer and access control equipment Co.

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So yeah, they're, they've got a few under their belt.

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So congrats to them.

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If any of our listeners want some shout outs as to emerging funds

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or successful acquisitions, drop us a line.

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Yes, we'd have a success story.

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Excellent. Congrats to both.

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Well, we're gonna start today's by side breakdown with,

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a little bit of a hot topic. So landscaping.

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So across

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Europe and indeed here in the UK, landscaping is consolidating fast.

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So private platforms are working through a 7.2

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billion pound UK market.

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But it's still sort of highly fragmented.

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So the two major players and nurture group and Edward it's third.

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I'm not sure if I'm saying that correctly.

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Between them they have over 100 acquisitions

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equaling 500 million pounds in combined revenue.

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But the top 50 players only hold about 20% of the market.

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So there's still a lot to play for.

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60% of the owners in this market are over

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55, and 80% of those, as always, lack succession planning.

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So deal flow surging.

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Quite an exciting proposition, Gareth.

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Yes. Lots of excitement.

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Both sides of the Atlantic.

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And actually across Europe.

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On consolidating this space.

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You've

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mentioned a couple of the big players there.

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Acquisition entrepreneurs coming out with their AI powered roll

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ups of have also started targeting, this space, albeit at the smaller end.

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But yeah, the avatars to sort of emulate, are, as you mentioned, their,

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nurtured group, nurture,

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incredibly tall flag.

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And very, very, active in their acquisitions over the last few years.

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I mean, they're doing almost quarterly, if not slightly more frequently.

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Acquisitions and growing out their, their platform.

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There's a lovely circularity story behind nurture

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because, Peter fame, who is leading it,

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has been in the game for 40 years.

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He founded Water Is in 1983, so that in 2003 to.

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One of the big FM companies.

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But then bought it back from es when it had become Tivoli Group.

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But carved it out from them.

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Just in the last 18 months.

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After having built, nurture through a series of acquisitions.

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Tivoli was the ice killer cake because it absolutely,

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supercharged the sort of value of the of the business at the top end.

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Anyway. Top line.

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So, yeah, they've done, prior to that, they've done haltech.

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They've done Chris Wood and Tom's,

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space care is there's been loads that's going on.

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Interestingly, though, if you look at the 2025 accounts,

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you have to, steel yourself because,

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the business is doing about 118 million in revenue.

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But making a 9.1 mil operating loss.

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It's got 16 mil annual cost of interest.

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And the finance that it's taking in in order to, fund these acquisitions.

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Long term, it's got about 170 million in,

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creditors and lenders, beyond one year.

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So clearly a lot of repayment to do.

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But they managed to do to clear a 5 million adjusted EBITDA.

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So even in 120 mil revenue

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businesses, you still have an adjusted EBITDA to, to the shot.

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But it's good to know.

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But yeah, really interesting business.

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And obviously have set the trend for what others want to do.

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You've got the the Swedes doing it, with,

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the green landscaping group, which is pushed out

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across some parts of, northern Europe, as well as obviously the Nordics.

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You mentioned advert, which is everywhere.

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Yeah.

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And has TCL, which is their subsidiary in the UK.

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Simon Cashmore.

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Yeah.

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Massive operation.

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BGF backed before they obviously exited to advert.

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Advert totals over €800 million in group revenue.

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Employs 8000 people.

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Present in France and Germany and Denmark and the Netherlands, including.

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And obviously here in the UK.

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So you've got these really great platforms.

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You know, well backed

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by and build operations.

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However,

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it's leaving a lot of the sort of lower market,

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unconsolidated these guys are picking up businesses

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that are doing, you know, 20 mil plus in revenue each.

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But there's a there's a huge base of the pyramid that's doing,

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you know, sub ten mil revenue is like these regional players.

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Yeah.

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Well, like I said, 80% of that of the market is,

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it's still sort of largely untapped.

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So there's a ton of great companies out there.

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We did a short search earlier, didn't we, and found a couple of off market.

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I know that we going to talk about some of market deals that we found, but we,

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found a couple of good off market companies and we.

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Yeah, we did we, you know, it's it's they're out there.

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They've all got their sort of local authority contracts, going around doing,

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grounds maintenance,

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everything from bin emptying and lawn mowing through to, you know,

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arboriculture, tree, tree care.

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I mean, you know, the beauty of this is it's evergreen, literally,

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no pun intended.

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You know, it's beautifully recurring revenue, operation.

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You know, these businesses are sitting

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upwards of 50, 60% of their revenue is being contractual, recurring.

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And of course, these bloody plants, they just keep growing.

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It's the ultimate business in that sense.

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You would think it was is quite a seasonal thing.

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But I guess

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if you look at specialties like Arbor culture,

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you know, if you need a tree cutting down, you know, a

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tree cutting down doesn't matter what time of year it is.

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So suppose if you have those specialties

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and then you have the kind of recurring government contracts,

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then you can keep it, as you say, sort of evergreen,

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revenue coming through, which is, which is awesome.

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And I suppose then perhaps are less,

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leaning on contractors and have more sort term stuff,

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which kind of reduces a bit of risk as well.

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So yeah. Interesting stuff.

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Yeah.

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With the, with the brain drain, the sort of skilled, skilled shortage

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that we find in, in every hands on market.

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Yes. It is vital that you have paid staff,

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but then you've got to make sure that you don't have seasonality,

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that you've got constant work for them all the year through,

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or that you make sufficient in the boom, summer, spring,

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early autumn, to see you through the fallow winter.

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Yeah. Well, this is one thing.

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Sorry to interrupt you.

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One thing I thought was really interesting about nurture.

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So zoom in on this earlier, and it says that, they have 95% plus

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direct employment, so no subcontractors with a living wage commitment.

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So they've got, you know, 170 plus UK depots,

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all fully staffed by directly employed,

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staff,

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a living wage, which I think is super impressive.

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Yeah. Well two things, to that one.

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The more staff you have, arguably the greater the capacity for the business

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to to grow and serve more clients.

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Yeah.

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So, you know, you can hit a glass ceiling if you don't have the manpower.

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But two had a corner of the market.

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Well, in a, an environment where trade is a premium

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and skills are, you know, becoming ever more scarce.

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Own the skills if you own the market. Yeah.

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Buy up all the stuff, and nobody else can have them.

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Yeah. You just got to make sure you got enough work for them. So,

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The beers, diamond approach.

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Nice analogy.

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Yeah.

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So. Yeah.

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So we thought we'd take a look

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and see what we can find, off market and on market.

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So instead of having a single buy side

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breakdown today, we've got a couple of deals, in this space.

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To to have a look at, looking for green flags as well as, red, an amber ones.

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But, just by way of the sort of, medium

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sized business that is, you know, out there still to be rolled up.

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You've got, I won't name names, but you've got,

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one based here in the southeast that also serves with depots,

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down into Hampshire and Surrey and, Oxfordshire.

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They're, doing 30 mill in Rev

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making about a million in operating profit declared.

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So yeah, they're looking pretty tasty.

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Great coverage.

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Lots of local authority contracts.

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You've got, one in the East Midlands

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that's doing 25 mill, similar sort of footprint.

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Lots of capital plant.

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In terms of, you know, mowers and trucks and,

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various different things and chainsaws probably aplenty.

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So, yeah, you've got some pretty high asset value businesses here

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making some decent money off of some, some pretty regular, consistent turnover.

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Tend to find that the lower down you go,

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the more net profitability in terms of percentages you're finding.

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So it must be some inhibition at scale here in terms of,

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you know, the health and safety obligations and, you know,

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all of the, the breadth of infrastructure

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that you need in order to support these larger kind of corporate businesses.

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I guess also, if you want to tender for government contracts and retain them,

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you've got a you've got to have some pretty robust back office.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, I'm one of these the listings that we go through today,

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there's a couple of sort of accreditations and, certifications

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that I've never heard of before.

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And yeah, I'm guessing that in order

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to take those government contracts, you probably need some of those.

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And that's where that sort of barrier comes from. Yep.

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I mean, and you also have maintenance.

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You have lots of your own internal maintenance.

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You know, some of these big boys have, you know, rented premises all over

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where they park up,

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you know, compounds and depots, but also repair workshops

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and all of the things that go with that to really sweat the assets

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and make sure that they're keeping the stuff working.

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And a lot of these

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guys, you know, look to recycle their cash into plant and own the stuff

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outright and, you know, the less less likely to lease

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products to lease equipment and pretend to,

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so, yeah, all of that's really useful considerations.

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But, I think there's, there's a real kind of untapped profit center,

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if you will, in that kind of Sub10 million.

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Company that it's,

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right, for consolidation.

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You could strip out some duplicate, you know, back office stuff.

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You could, consolidate things like the, the, the health and safety

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and the risk management and the compliance pieces.

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Yeah.

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And we found a few of those both, off market,

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and a couple here that will go through that are on market.

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So should we get stuck into those. Yes.

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So the first on market there will be found and so on the intelligent platform.

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And they are leading specialist in front garden design restoration

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and creation for period properties based in southeast England.

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So you think about your sort of acres and acres of period

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sort of Victorian and Georgian properties you see all over London.

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These are the guys to go to and date.

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Yeah. Firstly, love the intelligent platform.

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Mark and his team, do a nice job.

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They've sort of managed to strike

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a good balance between a sort of,

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supportive kind of traditional brokerage business, but with some decent tech

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that makes it accessible for, for businesses to list themselves.

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So, congrats to them.

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And yeah, this, this interesting little business based in south London

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seems to be,

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well, tapped into the kind of affluent

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London market, with folks that own, you know, mostly townhouses.

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I guess that want to do, conversions

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to, you know, feature front frontages.

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So it seems to be a bit of a landscaping, but mostly a sort of

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small construction project type, operation.

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Owner operated.

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The the founder seems to go back quite some time.

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Been in the game.

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Where do they incorporate 2013?

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And he seems to been going

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as an operator for, you know, probably a good 5 or 6 years prior to that.

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But, yeah, really great reputation.

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But making some, some decent profitability in a, in a percentage terms,

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obviously, from a, a small staff, these guys are doing just over a million.

00:14:03:05 - 00:14:05:15

Is that right, Alfie?

00:14:05:15 - 00:14:06:24

Yeah. In revenue.

00:14:06:24 - 00:14:09:04

Yeah, yeah, just about that.

00:14:09:04 - 00:14:12:11

Made in revenue, making a couple of hundred grand.

00:14:12:14 - 00:14:14:12

In in net profit.

00:14:14:12 - 00:14:20:01

As a consequence, notice that if you scrutinize their company accounts for 25,

00:14:20:04 - 00:14:25:19

they manage to grow their cash balance by about 170 K and grow their,

00:14:25:22 - 00:14:27:27

shareholder reserves by 130 K.

00:14:27:27 - 00:14:31:16

So that would take into consideration both of those year after tax after dividends.

00:14:31:19 - 00:14:35:16

So it speaks to that healthy 200 k plus Ebit.

00:14:35:19 - 00:14:38:13

So you got to ask yourself if you, if you can run a company of that size

00:14:38:13 - 00:14:44:28

and make over 20% in, in net, you know, earnings.

00:14:45:01 - 00:14:45:18

Not a bad little

00:14:45:18 - 00:14:49:17

number for an acquisition entrepreneur that likes to spend some time outside.

00:14:49:20 - 00:14:50:18

No, absolutely.

00:14:50:18 - 00:14:54:23

And if it is the company that, that we think is,

00:14:54:26 - 00:14:57:04

they've got a couple of very interesting propositions.

00:14:57:04 - 00:14:58:21

You know, they talk about how they can help you

00:14:58:21 - 00:15:00:17

with planning permission and conservation, er,

00:15:00:17 - 00:15:03:18

restriction concerns, which is obviously super important.

00:15:03:18 - 00:15:04:14

And, you know,

00:15:04:14 - 00:15:05:23

restoring to a sympathetic level

00:15:05:23 - 00:15:08:12

when you think about all of the money that you spend on,

00:15:08:12 - 00:15:11:26

you know, converting lofts and, and doing up these houses and, you know,

00:15:11:26 - 00:15:15:01

as an area in London gets gentrified, all these kind of rows and rows of houses

00:15:15:01 - 00:15:19:12

get, get, get some work done and not the million spent.

00:15:19:15 - 00:15:24:22

I wonder, though, how many of those jobs add up to a million in revenue?

00:15:24:25 - 00:15:28:13

I mean, I'm not sure what the, you know, the kind of charge per job, but,

00:15:28:16 - 00:15:29:06

you know,

00:15:29:06 - 00:15:30:27

what kind of volume do you think it needs

00:15:30:27 - 00:15:33:19

to be getting to, to, to to get to that turnover?

00:15:33:19 - 00:15:34:28

Yeah, this is the thing, isn't it?

00:15:34:28 - 00:15:39:27

I doubt they're, I doubt they're doing hundreds of projects a year.

00:15:40:00 - 00:15:44:21

It's probably, you know, less than 100 projects a year.

00:15:44:24 - 00:15:48:00

You know, the sort of value that they'd be going out at,

00:15:48:03 - 00:15:51:10

in that sort of area, kind of affluent London,

00:15:51:13 - 00:15:54:28

seems to have some examples of going pushing into Mayfair

00:15:54:28 - 00:15:58:18

and Knightsbridge and, Kensington and places like that.

00:15:58:18 - 00:16:02:27

So, you know, obviously some fairly high value properties,

00:16:03:00 - 00:16:04:23

reasonably broad frontages.

00:16:04:23 - 00:16:06:04

It could find that they're doing,

00:16:06:04 - 00:16:09:27

you know, a couple of projects a month and, and still making, this,

00:16:10:01 - 00:16:15:06

you know, healthy profitability on a 1 million revenue.

00:16:15:09 - 00:16:18:01

Is it scalable?

00:16:18:01 - 00:16:20:10

Probably not.

00:16:20:10 - 00:16:23:05

I wouldn't say so.

00:16:23:05 - 00:16:27:24

I mean, again, I think that this is probably quite a London centric business.

00:16:27:25 - 00:16:31:07

I'm not saying there aren't other sort of wealthy city hubs in the UK

00:16:31:07 - 00:16:33:16

that have a kind of fair share of period properties,

00:16:33:16 - 00:16:37:17

but I think you could kind of run out of those in a Manchester or,

00:16:37:20 - 00:16:39:28

Leeds or Liverpool sort of fairly quickly.

00:16:39:28 - 00:16:43:26

And I think that scaling outside of London would be difficult.

00:16:43:29 - 00:16:47:11

Yes. And obviously all the manpower seems to be based down here

00:16:47:11 - 00:16:50:24

in sort of the sort of Surrey neck of the woods, I think.

00:16:50:27 - 00:16:55:22

So, yeah, it is very regionally specific, regionally anchored.

00:16:55:25 - 00:16:59:18

Note that the listing doesn't talk about, being able to relocate,

00:16:59:19 - 00:17:01:29

and it's not an relocatable business.

00:17:02:02 - 00:17:03:02

And so,

00:17:03:02 - 00:17:06:02

yes, I think they've got a particular niche in a particular area.

00:17:06:08 - 00:17:08:06

Well, you know, they Google reviews are great.

00:17:08:06 - 00:17:11:15

They're, you know, they're up for four and a half stars.

00:17:11:18 - 00:17:15:01

I think they carve themselves out a really nice, nice space.

00:17:15:04 - 00:17:18:13

Really, Unique offer.

00:17:18:16 - 00:17:19:06

In the area.

00:17:19:06 - 00:17:22:25

So great. Great for them. But,

00:17:22:28 - 00:17:26:07

Yeah, if, if they haven't already scaled.

00:17:26:10 - 00:17:28:09

I wonder if

00:17:28:09 - 00:17:33:02

there is enough demand to scale with and enough skilled labor to scale with.

00:17:33:05 - 00:17:36:23

Because they do some very ornate things, by the looks of it.

00:17:36:26 - 00:17:37:06

Yeah.

00:17:37:06 - 00:17:39:01

And I think my other concern with this would be

00:17:39:01 - 00:17:43:06

how much of this is found a centric because the founder of this company

00:17:43:06 - 00:17:46:06

looks like he's an incredibly knowledgeable guy.

00:17:46:11 - 00:17:49:11

You know, and he talks about his, you know, passion for this and,

00:17:49:12 - 00:17:52:09

you know, understanding of the history and looks at the conservation areas.

00:17:52:09 - 00:17:55:18

And, you know, if they are working that small number of projects.

00:17:55:21 - 00:17:59:00

I would imagine that he is probably the person striking up these relationships

00:17:59:00 - 00:18:01:08

and selling these deals and talking to the homeowners.

00:18:01:08 - 00:18:05:26

And if you take him out of the equation, how long does it last?

00:18:05:27 - 00:18:07:11

That would be my question.

00:18:07:11 - 00:18:09:19

Well, this is always the the challenge of this

00:18:09:19 - 00:18:11:02

sort of size of business, isn't it really.

00:18:11:02 - 00:18:12:29

And that would probably come through in,

00:18:12:29 - 00:18:15:11

whatever deal structure eventually gets agreed for sure.

00:18:15:11 - 00:18:19:16

The seller because there is a, you know, a big concentration risk.

00:18:19:16 - 00:18:25:04

I imagine the listing doesn't speak about, you know, other commercial staff,

00:18:25:07 - 00:18:28:26

it talks about, you know, skilled labor, skilled artisans.

00:18:28:29 - 00:18:30:09

But it doesn't necessarily talk about.

00:18:30:09 - 00:18:34:23

Yeah, who would do the commercial stuff going out and winning the clients and,

00:18:34:26 - 00:18:38:25

designing the jobs and, making sure that things are profitable,

00:18:38:25 - 00:18:41:11

maintain the level of profitability they have

00:18:41:11 - 00:18:45:00

if the seller is, is off to do other things or looking to retire.

00:18:45:03 - 00:18:48:15

So, there is a, I would say a huge concentration

00:18:48:15 - 00:18:52:11

risk in a, in a business of this size.

00:18:52:14 - 00:18:53:02

So, yeah,

00:18:53:02 - 00:18:57:00

one to think about, probably needs a long transition,

00:18:57:07 - 00:19:00:04

needs a heavy dose of deferred consideration.

00:19:00:04 - 00:19:04:12

Probably doesn't attract, a high percentage of the deal value

00:19:04:13 - 00:19:06:22

cash down on the day.

00:19:06:22 - 00:19:09:10

But it gives the owner an exit option.

00:19:09:10 - 00:19:12:00

And hopefully someone to pass the baton to.

00:19:12:00 - 00:19:15:19

I think anyone coming in should be under no illusion, though, that they're going

00:19:15:19 - 00:19:16:18

to have to roll the sleeves up.

00:19:16:18 - 00:19:20:02

You know, they got a they've got to be doing replacing the owner.

00:19:20:08 - 00:19:23:08

And this is the thing at this level, owner operators,

00:19:23:08 - 00:19:26:02

they're having to exit to owner operators.

00:19:26:02 - 00:19:29:17

So if you're if you're a spreadsheet jockey coming in expecting to buy

00:19:29:17 - 00:19:33:28

this sort of business as a, as a, you know, profit generator, cash generator

00:19:33:28 - 00:19:38:09

and not have to be in it, operating it, I think you might be in for a surprise.

00:19:38:12 - 00:19:40:04

Well, at least glance my next question, which was,

00:19:40:04 - 00:19:43:28

you know, who do you think buys this and and does a good job with it?

00:19:43:28 - 00:19:45:20

Like, is it something that

00:19:45:20 - 00:19:49:06

if you already a landscaping company, you could acquire this as well

00:19:49:06 - 00:19:50:29

and it could give you access to a London market?

00:19:50:29 - 00:19:52:24

You know, one of your staff can learn from the owner.

00:19:52:24 - 00:19:55:24

And maybe you can also get into do some back garden work with them and,

00:19:56:01 - 00:19:58:22

you know, expand with the customer base that he has.

00:19:58:22 - 00:20:00:10

I mean, that's where I would probably say.

00:20:00:10 - 00:20:01:28

Exactly that, exactly that.

00:20:01:28 - 00:20:04:28

So I see somebody based in, in,

00:20:04:28 - 00:20:07:28

you know, Surrey, Hampshire, Kent,

00:20:08:02 - 00:20:12:08

Essex, Hertfordshire, like, you know, M25, surrounding area

00:20:12:11 - 00:20:16:05

that has a good, healthy business in the burbs but wants access to

00:20:16:10 - 00:20:21:05

the London market, also wants to diversify a little bit in a move out of,

00:20:21:08 - 00:20:24:08

the sort of horticulture piece that as a concentration

00:20:24:09 - 00:20:27:04

and into a bit of, more, you know,

00:20:27:04 - 00:20:31:12

kind of harder FM works, and harder,

00:20:31:15 - 00:20:33:12

projects.

00:20:33:12 - 00:20:37:00

So, so yeah, there is it will have a, the right fit for someone.

00:20:37:00 - 00:20:38:28

Someone will have an appetite for it.

00:20:38:28 - 00:20:40:26

But yes, it's very niche.

00:20:40:26 - 00:20:43:25

And just at that, you know,

00:20:43:25 - 00:20:46:07

level of financial viability

00:20:46:07 - 00:20:49:21

that still attracts some existential risk.

00:20:49:24 - 00:20:51:08

Well said.

00:20:51:08 - 00:20:51:17

Though.

00:20:51:17 - 00:20:52:13

So as we've got

00:20:52:13 - 00:20:55:18

the two of these in this episode, are we doing a sort of thumbs up thumbs?

00:20:55:18 - 00:20:59:23

Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:59:26 - 00:21:00:05

Okay.

00:21:00:05 - 00:21:01:08

Well, for me,

00:21:01:08 - 00:21:03:14

it would be for me personally, it would be a thumbs down

00:21:03:14 - 00:21:06:02

because I would not know where to start with this.

00:21:06:02 - 00:21:09:24

I can just about keep my house plants in my office alive.

00:21:09:27 - 00:21:12:01

I know nothing about conservation areas.

00:21:12:01 - 00:21:14:14

It wouldn't work for me, so I thought it would be a thumbs down.

00:21:14:14 - 00:21:16:14

But for the right person, I can absolutely see.

00:21:16:14 - 00:21:18:15

It's been a really great buy.

00:21:18:15 - 00:21:20:14

Yeah. Exactly that.

00:21:20:14 - 00:21:22:22

I was, I'm really surprised, though,

00:21:22:22 - 00:21:26:29

on your, foliage in the back of your, background there because,

00:21:27:02 - 00:21:30:08

when you're saying about keeping it alive, I actually thought that was, artificial,

00:21:30:15 - 00:21:31:24

interior foliage, so.

00:21:31:24 - 00:21:35:15

No. Well, this one is artificial, but this one's real.

00:21:35:18 - 00:21:35:29

Okay.

00:21:35:29 - 00:21:36:16

Yeah.

00:21:36:16 - 00:21:40:09

I thought you had, succumbed to the plant area group.

00:21:40:12 - 00:21:44:00

Is there the one of these that are in the ascendancy buying up?

00:21:44:00 - 00:21:46:07

I think I've done nine acquisitions.

00:21:46:07 - 00:21:49:12

Green team interiors, office landscapes.

00:21:49:15 - 00:21:52:15

It was reminiscent for me when I was researching for this episode.

00:21:52:18 - 00:21:54:24

Obviously we know, said Willan. Who?

00:21:54:24 - 00:21:57:23

You're just a folio, cracking deal.

00:21:57:23 - 00:21:59:03

With a lot of seller finance.

00:21:59:03 - 00:22:02:03

And he, must be thinking about his exit opportunities.

00:22:02:03 - 00:22:06:12

I wonder if he's got his eye on plant area, in the future.

00:22:06:15 - 00:22:08:00

Well, anyway,

00:22:08:00 - 00:22:10:18

see, I get them when they're new, and then after a couple of months,

00:22:10:18 - 00:22:12:05

if they don't survive very well,

00:22:12:05 - 00:22:14:10

they go live in his office, and I kind of get the next one.

00:22:14:10 - 00:22:16:05

That's how our pricing works.

00:22:16:05 - 00:22:18:17

This one's not real, because finding a trillium plant

00:22:18:17 - 00:22:21:04

that stays lush and greenery around is difficult.

00:22:21:04 - 00:22:24:03

So yeah, it's a 50. It's a 5050 split.

00:22:24:03 - 00:22:26:27

Hey, why are you showing your horticultural knowledge here?

00:22:26:27 - 00:22:27:26

Gareth.

00:22:27:26 - 00:22:29:20

How about you sum up or thumbs down for you?

00:22:29:20 - 00:22:34:07

Gareth, it's it is a thumbs down for me because,

00:22:34:10 - 00:22:37:24

I think it will affect a disproportionate,

00:22:37:27 - 00:22:40:26

area concentration risk with the seller.

00:22:40:26 - 00:22:44:24

I feel like, you know, this might just be me being jaded.

00:22:44:27 - 00:22:48:06

But you might spend a lot of time negotiating this only to find

00:22:48:06 - 00:22:52:03

that the seller wants out sooner than you need them to be there.

00:22:52:06 - 00:22:53:06

Potentially. Yeah.

00:22:53:06 - 00:22:55:08

Yeah, I could see that happening.

00:22:55:08 - 00:22:55:20

Yeah.

00:22:55:20 - 00:22:58:12

So on the other end of the,

00:22:58:12 - 00:23:00:23

playbook, we've got an interesting,

00:23:00:23 - 00:23:03:22

second deal to talk about today.

00:23:03:22 - 00:23:07:15

Which is a specialist grounds maintenance about a boring culture

00:23:07:15 - 00:23:12:15

and landscaping service provider, based in the Midlands.

00:23:12:18 - 00:23:14:10

In researching this one, I got all excited.

00:23:14:10 - 00:23:18:26

I've got to say, so do you want to give us a bit of the lowdown? Yes.

00:23:18:26 - 00:23:24:10

So this one is listed by, friends at CVS, and it's on UK businesses for sale.

00:23:24:13 - 00:23:25:18

So they're kind of company.

00:23:25:18 - 00:23:26:05

Blurb says

00:23:26:05 - 00:23:30:04

that the company's complete services are delivered for clients of all sites,

00:23:30:04 - 00:23:34:24

ranging from small guards and sports pitches to large scale development areas.

00:23:34:27 - 00:23:38:00

So open space maintenance, site clearances, plot, landscaping,

00:23:38:00 - 00:23:39:27

the Boer culture, horticulture.

00:23:39:27 - 00:23:41:03

And it goes back to

00:23:41:03 - 00:23:42:21

to what we're saying earlier is kind of having that

00:23:42:21 - 00:23:46:17

spread of different skills is probably what allows them to not get

00:23:46:17 - 00:23:49:25

too caught up in sort of lumpy seasonality stuff.

00:23:49:28 - 00:23:52:13

You know, maintaining the sports pitches over,

00:23:52:13 - 00:23:56:11

you know, the football season over the winter is probably helping them out.

00:23:56:14 - 00:24:00:19

You know, in that terms, arboriculture, you know, so site clearances

00:24:00:19 - 00:24:05:06

and they've got real sort of mixed pot of stuff that they get into,

00:24:05:09 - 00:24:07:26

turnover it says from 1 to 5 mil here.

00:24:07:26 - 00:24:09:02

It's not very helpful scale.

00:24:09:02 - 00:24:12:09

That's got it's quite a big quite a big spread.

00:24:12:12 - 00:24:14:22

But we think we, we might know who it is.

00:24:14:22 - 00:24:15:01

Yeah.

00:24:15:01 - 00:24:16:04

And I think further in the listing,

00:24:16:04 - 00:24:19:08

they're talking about a one to a quarter million, turnover.

00:24:19:15 - 00:24:22:10

What impressed me about that, though, is that, they're also

00:24:22:10 - 00:24:26:15

reporting an adjusted EBITDA of 450 grand off of that one.

00:24:26:15 - 00:24:27:22

And a quarter million.

00:24:27:22 - 00:24:32:18

So, you know, up over the 22%, net margin.

00:24:32:21 - 00:24:34:14

But that got me very excited.

00:24:34:14 - 00:24:37:06

Well, I think that's interesting because they look like they,

00:24:37:06 - 00:24:40:05

kind of at the scale level where we said things potentially get more expensive.

00:24:40:05 - 00:24:44:13

You know, they are accredited by C as in S mas WorkSafe.

00:24:44:15 - 00:24:47:26

I don't know either of those secrets registered,

00:24:48:00 - 00:24:49:06

but they've got some

00:24:49:06 - 00:24:51:27

great sounding accreditations and it seems like they work on know

00:24:51:27 - 00:24:54:19

a lot of scale developments with sporting teams and with councils and stuff.

00:24:54:19 - 00:24:59:04

So they they've surpassed that barrier and they're still,

00:24:59:07 - 00:25:00:12

you know, turning over

00:25:00:12 - 00:25:05:10

getting a yeah full for 450 K EBITDA of 1.26 mil turnover is incredible.

00:25:05:13 - 00:25:06:07

Exactly. Yeah.

00:25:06:07 - 00:25:09:07

Those accreditations Chaz and SMAs.

00:25:09:14 - 00:25:10:24

How about. The way and format?

00:25:10:24 - 00:25:11:15

Yeah.

00:25:11:15 - 00:25:16:03

And SMAs not do dissimilar from the, East End.

00:25:16:06 - 00:25:18:26

Piano piano duo. Rabbit, rabbit.

00:25:18:26 - 00:25:21:26

I don't see why he would get accredited these days.

00:25:22:01 - 00:25:23:16

At least. Still, even with us, I don't know.

00:25:23:16 - 00:25:26:16

I mean, God help me if I've spoken to them.

00:25:26:17 - 00:25:27:24

Okay. Sorry.

00:25:27:24 - 00:25:30:23

So. I only send you.

00:25:30:23 - 00:25:31:10

Indeed.

00:25:31:10 - 00:25:33:06

Chaz and Dave. Josh.

00:25:33:06 - 00:25:35:26

So, yeah, these guys do have Chaz and spares,

00:25:35:26 - 00:25:40:08

which is a good sort of sign of their, focus on health and safety.

00:25:40:08 - 00:25:43:14

You know, a lot of this is going to be chainsaw wielding, work.

00:25:43:17 - 00:25:46:14

And, you know, it's important that they are

00:25:46:14 - 00:25:49:23

they have a clean, clean health and safety record, which I'm sure they do.

00:25:49:26 - 00:25:54:13

But, I'm more interested in their clean books and their,

00:25:54:16 - 00:25:56:01

highly profitable model because they're,

00:25:56:01 - 00:25:59:12

they're making a considerable earnings from,

00:25:59:15 - 00:26:02:13

you know, quite, modest turnover,

00:26:02:13 - 00:26:05:11

which might account for the size of their team.

00:26:05:11 - 00:26:09:25

If I look at the company that I think it is, they've got a veritable army.

00:26:09:25 - 00:26:10:29

I don't know if they're listing

00:26:10:29 - 00:26:15:15

some subcontractors in amongst all this, but they got, a healthy,

00:26:15:18 - 00:26:19:16

healthy number of headshots, and they're obviously actively recruiting as well.

00:26:19:19 - 00:26:23:16

So these guys are over in the, in the West Mids, seem to come out of a,

00:26:23:19 - 00:26:26:28

a rather large, Staffordshire estate,

00:26:27:01 - 00:26:31:21

and seem to have some nice local authority contracts, as you've alluded to.

00:26:31:24 - 00:26:35:17

A huge asset base, 600,000 pounds

00:26:35:17 - 00:26:41:00

worth of combined fixed and current assets,

00:26:41:03 - 00:26:44:03

of which the cash accounts for, I think, 150 of that.

00:26:44:03 - 00:26:47:04

So let's say for 50 to half a million in fixed assets.

00:26:47:04 - 00:26:50:04

So they've obviously got some decent plan,

00:26:50:04 - 00:26:53:13

on the books, even at those written down values.

00:26:53:16 - 00:26:57:00

So, yeah, they're, they're up for sale.

00:26:57:03 - 00:26:59:00

Seem to cite that they've got

00:26:59:00 - 00:27:02:13

some strong second tier management team,

00:27:02:16 - 00:27:06:09

looking at the incorporation and the ownership,

00:27:06:12 - 00:27:10:03

seems to be guys kind of looking for early retirement.

00:27:10:06 - 00:27:15:11

It's been going since 2004, incorporated in 2006.

00:27:15:14 - 00:27:18:07

Which actually also aligns with the listing.

00:27:18:07 - 00:27:21:26

So, yeah, I think, it looks like a nice company,

00:27:21:26 - 00:27:25:23

good reputation, decent contracts, sites that,

00:27:25:29 - 00:27:29:24

65% of its turnover is recurring contractual.

00:27:30:00 - 00:27:30:19

Yeah.

00:27:30:19 - 00:27:34:14

So I'd rub hand that very exciting recurring revenue.

00:27:34:14 - 00:27:36:28

Everybody loves recurring revenue in this game. Yeah.

00:27:36:28 - 00:27:40:06

But it also and this is really interesting for this listing because we don't often

00:27:40:06 - 00:27:45:07

see this, you know on the listings on, on, on UK businesses for sale

00:27:45:10 - 00:27:47:23

strong second tier management team including employee.

00:27:47:23 - 00:27:51:09

You can absorb financial duties currently undertaken by the shareholder.

00:27:51:09 - 00:27:54:28

So it shows that they've kind of already thought about that kind of sale ability.

00:27:54:28 - 00:27:56:21

And and you know how someone could come in

00:27:56:21 - 00:27:58:15

and take over this business, which is something

00:27:58:15 - 00:28:00:19

we talked to the sellers about, you know, quite regularly is

00:28:00:19 - 00:28:04:08

are you prepared to hand the reins over to someone?

00:28:04:11 - 00:28:07:12

And, they're kind of already thinking about de-risking the acquisition,

00:28:07:12 - 00:28:08:13

which I like.

00:28:08:13 - 00:28:14:10

Oh, I think it says to me that the sellers have actively been de-risking,

00:28:14:10 - 00:28:17:20

or at least trying to make the businesses less dependent on them

00:28:17:27 - 00:28:19:06

from an operational standpoint.

00:28:19:06 - 00:28:20:05

You know,

00:28:20:05 - 00:28:23:08

you actually could bring in a spreadsheet jockey that wants to run this sort

00:28:23:08 - 00:28:25:21

of financially, remotely,

00:28:25:24 - 00:28:27:22

because you've got the operational management

00:28:27:22 - 00:28:30:27

in there that's already doing the day to day, by the looks of it.

00:28:30:27 - 00:28:35:02

So that feels even though the turnovers are comparable,

00:28:35:09 - 00:28:38:04

I would say this one has obviously greater profitability,

00:28:38:04 - 00:28:42:28

but more longevity and transferability as a consequence of the efforts

00:28:42:28 - 00:28:46:21

they put into making sure they've got a robust team.

00:28:46:24 - 00:28:48:28

Yes. So for all the sort of spreadsheet

00:28:48:28 - 00:28:53:14

jockeys out there, as you keep affectionately calling them.

00:28:53:17 - 00:28:55:18

You know, and that's that's what I would be in a business like this,

00:28:55:18 - 00:28:58:19

I, you know, I'm, let's say I'm not a green fingered person.

00:28:58:19 - 00:29:01:16

I don't have any deep knowledge of this, but it does seem like

00:29:01:16 - 00:29:03:09

you could come in and take this business over,

00:29:03:09 - 00:29:06:09

and there is enough going on there that it could run

00:29:06:12 - 00:29:09:09

without too much operational input from you.

00:29:09:09 - 00:29:11:20

And, you know, even sort of on the financial side,

00:29:11:20 - 00:29:14:13

which is super interesting because that's something that

00:29:14:13 - 00:29:16:14

a spreadsheet jockey would only come in and do for you.

00:29:16:14 - 00:29:18:27

But the fact that they've already got someone who can take that over is,

00:29:18:27 - 00:29:21:14

is the even more interesting.

00:29:21:17 - 00:29:22:12

Yeah, I like it.

00:29:22:12 - 00:29:25:13

And if you were looking for a platform regionally to be able to bolt

00:29:25:13 - 00:29:30:08

on other businesses to in the, you know,

00:29:30:11 - 00:29:34:28

estate services, estate management, software, FM kind of stuff.

00:29:35:01 - 00:29:37:24

This is this, this this represents, I think, a

00:29:37:24 - 00:29:42:04

good sort of business in the ascendancy that you could use as a bit of a platform.

00:29:42:04 - 00:29:45:07

So I, I think it's worthy

00:29:45:07 - 00:29:50:06

of further exploration, frankly, if you want to do the thumbs up,

00:29:50:09 - 00:29:52:06

If you say if you want to be the next nurture,

00:29:52:06 - 00:29:55:11

you could kind of buy this and it could be your springboard into,

00:29:55:14 - 00:29:58:06

you know, either some or selling to nurture.

00:29:58:06 - 00:29:59:16

Potentially.

00:29:59:16 - 00:30:04:24

So eventually these platforms, these, these consolidators are going to run out

00:30:04:24 - 00:30:08:04

of, decent sized businesses

00:30:08:04 - 00:30:11:04

that they can be buying and, and adding on.

00:30:11:05 - 00:30:14:28

And so there needs to be, you know, the movement of acquisition

00:30:14:28 - 00:30:17:28

entrepreneurship and owner operators

00:30:18:02 - 00:30:21:00

looking at these are the size of businesses in the kind of,

00:30:21:00 - 00:30:24:14

you know, few million revenue, decent profitability,

00:30:24:17 - 00:30:25:02

the cash

00:30:25:02 - 00:30:28:25

generative nature of this business, which would make it a good initial platform.

00:30:28:28 - 00:30:32:23

But but albeit as a smaller start, more affordable, you know, more

00:30:32:23 - 00:30:38:06

accessible start, I guess for someone coming in at at it from search.

00:30:38:09 - 00:30:40:08

Yes. Fast forward five,

00:30:40:08 - 00:30:44:29

seven, ten years and you probably got something of a size,

00:30:45:02 - 00:30:47:12

you know, maybe it's, you know, you've cleared the senior, you've cleared

00:30:47:12 - 00:30:51:13

the seller, you've thrown off some cash that you've put into a war chest,

00:30:51:13 - 00:30:53:02

you've got some lending you.

00:30:53:02 - 00:30:57:21

Maybe you've got 2 or 3 acquisitions done within the next five years.

00:30:57:24 - 00:30:59:15

And then you might be off to the races.

00:30:59:15 - 00:31:03:04

You could be looking at, you know, north of ten mil in combined revenue,

00:31:03:05 - 00:31:09:12

you could be looking at, you know, one and a half mil in profitability, net.

00:31:09:15 - 00:31:12:14

I think those, those kind of numbers make it attractive.

00:31:12:14 - 00:31:15:06

That's where these nurtured and, you know, green

00:31:15:06 - 00:31:18:15

landscaping and diverter people are probably starting to look that.

00:31:18:15 - 00:31:20:03

And what was that's for entry level.

00:31:20:03 - 00:31:24:13

And what's the sort of multiple that you get on that sort of after this arbitrage.

00:31:24:13 - 00:31:26:23

And you've had a couple of Boltons and it's been for ten years.

00:31:26:23 - 00:31:29:09

What sort of multiple are you looking at from your ten mil revenue?

00:31:29:09 - 00:31:29:23

Yeah.

00:31:29:23 - 00:31:34:08

I mean, a ten mil, you've got to be talking

00:31:34:11 - 00:31:36:07

5 to 7 x, I woulda thought.

00:31:36:07 - 00:31:37:22

Awesome.

00:31:37:22 - 00:31:42:07

But you're you're buying in to these smaller companies at no more than three.

00:31:42:10 - 00:31:44:21

Realistically. Yeah.

00:31:44:21 - 00:31:47:17

So there is a multiple arbitrage game to to play here.

00:31:47:17 - 00:31:49:06

Definitely.

00:31:49:06 - 00:31:50:11

Well there you go.

00:31:50:11 - 00:31:54:23

Any listeners out there this could be like is this the next hot market?

00:31:54:26 - 00:31:56:24

We're sick of care homes.

00:31:56:24 - 00:31:59:15

Bets have already been, been and gone.

00:31:59:15 - 00:32:02:13

Is it this landscape in the the new frontier?

00:32:02:13 - 00:32:05:13

Well it's exhibiting some strong growth.

00:32:05:20 - 00:32:06:09

Okay.

00:32:06:09 - 00:32:09:06

That's a very political answer.

00:32:09:06 - 00:32:12:06

Yes. No, I was going for a pun, actually, and.

00:32:12:06 - 00:32:13:04

I missed that. Sorry.

00:32:13:04 - 00:32:14:09

I know, I know, and.

00:32:14:09 - 00:32:17:16

I'm all about the dad jokes that you are.

00:32:17:19 - 00:32:18:26

So. Yes, I'm thumbs up on this one.

00:32:18:26 - 00:32:21:07

I think this one excites me. I want to know more.

00:32:21:07 - 00:32:23:09

This is one to pull the sim on. Definitely.

00:32:23:09 - 00:32:24:20

You were so excited and you didn't even.

00:32:24:20 - 00:32:27:00

I didn't even ask me to give you a thumbs up or thumbs down. You just.

00:32:27:00 - 00:32:28:15

You couldn't wait to get the thumbs up out there?

00:32:28:15 - 00:32:32:27

No, you know me. I've got no poker face.

00:32:33:00 - 00:32:34:15

How about you, Alfie?

00:32:34:15 - 00:32:36:08

Yeah. I'm absolutely the same.

00:32:36:08 - 00:32:37:24

This would be a really exciting one.

00:32:37:24 - 00:32:38:18

Like we said,

00:32:38:18 - 00:32:41:15

this could be a super exciting sort of launch

00:32:41:15 - 00:32:45:25

pad into, growing a sort of small group and doing some bow ons

00:32:45:25 - 00:32:47:03

and selling off down the line.

00:32:47:03 - 00:32:49:15

I think you could come into this as a spreadsheet jockey

00:32:49:15 - 00:32:51:28

that doesn't know a huge amount about the space and learn over time.

00:32:51:28 - 00:32:54:28

And yeah, big thumbs up for me.

00:32:54:29 - 00:32:56:06

Maybe we should buy this one.

00:32:56:06 - 00:32:58:26

Gareth would be very excited about it.

00:32:58:26 - 00:33:01:21

That is halfway between both of us as well, with you in Manchester and me

00:33:01:21 - 00:33:03:00

just outside of London. There we go.

00:33:03:00 - 00:33:07:14

Why not buy something in the West Mids and, gun drive tractors all day?

00:33:07:17 - 00:33:09:28

But that actually sounds like quite a lot of fun, doesn't it?

00:33:09:28 - 00:33:11:03

Yeah. Awesome.

00:33:11:03 - 00:33:12:04

Okay, we'll see.

00:33:12:04 - 00:33:15:09

The the commune next door and, you know.

00:33:15:12 - 00:33:16:06

If there isn't,

00:33:16:06 - 00:33:18:28

if there isn't a next episode of the pod, you know what's happened.

00:33:18:28 - 00:33:21:16

Indeed. And that you know where to find us.

00:33:21:16 - 00:33:24:15

Reserve on a track to somewhere in the West Midlands.

00:33:24:15 - 00:33:25:20

Yeah,

00:33:25:23 - 00:33:27:07

well, I think we'll leave it there.

00:33:27:07 - 00:33:29:17

That was a really, interesting episode.

00:33:29:17 - 00:33:32:23

We kind of covered a hot topic and gave you a bit of background.

00:33:32:23 - 00:33:35:17

We looked into into two deals.

00:33:35:17 - 00:33:35:24

Let's see.

00:33:35:24 - 00:33:39:18

You got anything else to add before we sign off this week, Gareth? No.

00:33:39:21 - 00:33:40:14

Absolutely not.

00:33:40:14 - 00:33:43:14

I think we got an exciting year coming up.

00:33:43:20 - 00:33:46:02

And more great interviews.

00:33:46:02 - 00:33:50:03

Some already in the can, some, scheduled over the coming weeks.

00:33:50:06 - 00:33:51:12

So stay tuned. We're here.

00:33:51:12 - 00:33:51:25

We are.

00:33:51:25 - 00:33:55:18

Well, a year in season three already.

00:33:55:21 - 00:33:59:09

Pushing 50 episodes, I think, in the horizon.

00:33:59:12 - 00:34:02:03

So, yeah, thanks to all our listeners and,

00:34:02:03 - 00:34:05:28

growing number of followers and viewers that, bother to tune in

00:34:05:28 - 00:34:10:14

and listen to us, debating the merits of these opportunities. Yes.

00:34:10:20 - 00:34:12:09

And when you when you do see us in speeches,

00:34:12:09 - 00:34:16:00

please do keep, giving us your feedback on, on on what you like about the episode.

00:34:16:00 - 00:34:19:00

So I've been increasingly meeting people in, in biz crunch demos that say,

00:34:19:00 - 00:34:19:26

oh, I listen to your show

00:34:19:26 - 00:34:21:00

and I particularly like

00:34:21:00 - 00:34:22:29

this style of episode or that style of episode,

00:34:22:29 - 00:34:25:02

or I've got that one bookmarked to go back to.

00:34:25:02 - 00:34:28:26

And so, yeah, I really love that feedback.

00:34:28:29 - 00:34:30:22

So yes, apart from when somebody can

00:34:30:22 - 00:34:33:04

you said they love the episodes where we tear down businesses.

00:34:33:04 - 00:34:34:14

That's not what we're doing.

00:34:34:14 - 00:34:38:20

I think they use more, pejorative language than that, actually.

00:34:38:23 - 00:34:40:26

Which made me feel very guilty.

00:34:40:26 - 00:34:44:09

So, but ultimately, we try to do this in good faith,

00:34:44:12 - 00:34:47:17

and not name businesses and, you know, help

00:34:47:20 - 00:34:51:09

fledgling acquirers to navigate the space and know what to look for

00:34:51:09 - 00:34:52:01

and what to avoid.

00:34:52:01 - 00:34:54:21

So and as you've seen today, if it's a good listing

00:34:54:21 - 00:34:57:09

and a good business, we will be overwhelmingly positive.

00:34:57:09 - 00:34:59:04

And you know,

00:34:59:04 - 00:35:02:15

so I think we I think we found but fair I would say that's a number for.

00:35:02:18 - 00:35:02:21

Yeah.

00:35:02:21 - 00:35:06:20

We all that's that's going above the door.

00:35:06:23 - 00:35:07:09

Excellent.

00:35:07:09 - 00:35:10:03

Well, thank you very much, everybody for tuning in.

00:35:10:03 - 00:35:11:01

Stay tuned for next week.

00:35:11:01 - 00:35:13:15

We've got a very exciting interview for you.

00:35:13:15 - 00:35:20:18

And until next time, keep on crunching.

00:35:20:21 - 00:35:21:27

Tuber.

00:35:21:27 - 00:35:23:06

All right, we're out.

00:35:23:06 - 00:35:25:17

He's doing the post-production on this one.

00:35:25:17 - 00:35:26:04

I'm happy to do.

00:35:26:04 - 00:35:28:16

I don't think we need many edits in that, do we?

00:35:28:16 - 00:35:29:08

Not really.

00:35:29:08 - 00:35:30:29

It's going to be a little bit of us talking over each other

00:35:30:29 - 00:35:33:04

about five minutes in. Meet me talking over you.

00:35:33:04 - 00:35:34:21

So maybe cut that out if you can hear.

00:35:34:21 - 00:35:37:16

It was a point where we landed, where you were saying something, and I would.

00:35:37:16 - 00:35:42:11

I'd shut up by then so we could probably just trim out a couple of seconds where I.

00:35:42:14 - 00:35:44:18

Yeah, I love, I love listening through and do that.

00:35:44:18 - 00:35:47:06

I might yeah, I'll see if I can do it tonight.

00:35:47:06 - 00:35:48:20

If not, I'll get it out tomorrow morning.

00:35:48:20 - 00:35:52:05

But you'll be out in time for the lunchtime share. So

00:35:52:08 - 00:35:53:28

Patrick also,

00:35:53:28 - 00:35:58:06

busily working on, producing this one that I did with Tom and Luke.

00:35:58:09 - 00:35:59:04

A labor of love.

00:35:59:04 - 00:36:03:15

Frankly, these these in real life ones are not as easy as these remote ones are.

00:36:03:18 - 00:36:05:18

He really?

00:36:05:18 - 00:36:07:25

I think if you know,

00:36:07:25 - 00:36:10:22

we've got all the different flavors now, we've we've done,

00:36:10:22 - 00:36:14:09

let's pay someone an extortionate amount of money to lend us

00:36:14:09 - 00:36:19:09

a studio hire as a studio and then, do all of the post-production.

00:36:19:12 - 00:36:21:17

That was nice, but I'm not sure it paid for itself.

00:36:21:17 - 00:36:22:15

Yeah.

00:36:22:15 - 00:36:26:11

Then we we obviously we've got these kind of quick,

00:36:26:14 - 00:36:28:07

you know, point and shoot ones.

00:36:28:07 - 00:36:29:22

Yeah.

00:36:29:22 - 00:36:33:15

And then obviously now we're into let's try hiring a co-working,

00:36:33:18 - 00:36:37:21

an office in a space, recording it ourselves,

00:36:37:24 - 00:36:41:20

and then doing the post-production with multi angles and multiple whatsits.

00:36:41:23 - 00:36:44:00

So, I don't know,

00:36:44:03 - 00:36:44:16

yeah.

00:36:44:16 - 00:36:45:08

Okay.

00:36:45:08 - 00:36:48:10

Because obviously we got, we got with three people on The Voice.

00:36:48:10 - 00:36:50:08

So yeah it needs any support two channels.

00:36:50:08 - 00:36:51:20

So you know.

00:36:51:20 - 00:36:55:11

Yeah, I had one that's in audacity that I've had to move across and.

00:36:55:14 - 00:36:58:23

Oh yeah, I had fun with that after the symposium.

00:36:58:26 - 00:37:00:24

Yeah, at least that was a new angle.

00:37:00:24 - 00:37:02:22

But that was a yeah.

00:37:02:22 - 00:37:05:06

Yeah, that was a pain in the ass.

00:37:05:06 - 00:37:06:10

Indeed. Good.

00:37:06:10 - 00:37:07:26

All right. Well thanks loads mate.

00:37:07:26 - 00:37:10:17

You were right to grab it and download it and do the necessary then.

00:37:10:17 - 00:37:14:00

And I think it ended at 35 minutes.

00:37:14:02 - 00:37:16:19

So perfect. Lovely. Cheers, mate.

00:37:16:19 - 00:37:18:12

All right I think bye bye.