[SPEAKER_01]: All right, welcome back to another episode of the baseball America Prospect podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are continuing on forging ahead with our prospect eat dives across all 30 teams.

[SPEAKER_01]: Today, I am joined by my colleague, Hazoo's Cano.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hazoo's, we are talking Colorado Rockies.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a lot of build up for me to then tell the people we're talking Rockies today.

[SPEAKER_01]: not the most talented organization in the game.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's kind of top to bottom at this point, but we have had some shakeups in the front office.

[SPEAKER_01]: So before we kind of go into our typical questions, why don't we start there?

[SPEAKER_01]: What sort of the feelings around Colorado, the Rocky's organization now, maybe among those, you're out in Arizona, so baseball is kind of 24, 7365 days a year out there on like most places.

[SPEAKER_01]: So sort of,

[SPEAKER_01]: Are there anything's kind of slipping out about chains in approach under Deepadesta or sort of, you know, what the potential perspective is on certain players in the organization?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how are we moving forward?

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, he's known from being a character and money ball more or less than, you know, going and working with the Mets.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, was mostly recently in the football world.

[SPEAKER_01]: with the Cleveland Browns.

[SPEAKER_01]: So coming back to baseball after some time off, it is kind of an interesting move.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was kind of one of the early analytics people will say, um, but things have evolved quite a bit since the money ball days at this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of course.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the the biggest hope in the sense of that I know the Rockies, you know, have just gone too so so much you know toes as an organization with them being able to construct the quality roster.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's optimism, but at the same time, it's pressure.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and it's pressure because it's the first year of something for something new.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the hiring of a dip or decision just shows that, you know, the block is, you know, for an office and everybody finally understands what needs to be done, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just, you know, for an office, there was a lot of coaching changes.

[SPEAKER_00]: But for the most part on the farm system, you know, they kept the farm director Chris Forbes and most of the guys that were in that coaching development system down there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it seems like from, you know, just that action and a lot of things that have hurt within the organization is that they are optimistic of the guys that they have right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, this rank has the, you know, towards the lower end of our farm rankings.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, there's plenty to build upon up, you know, you look at the top, which will get into a little bit of, you know, there's plans that could, you know, add it's best that they figure it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are going to be very good major league players and there's players at the bottom that have quite a bit to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: although that's kind of the resounding thing within the entire organization.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's plenty about to miss a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, a lot of pressure, which isn't normal to hear when you start like a fresh slate and you bring somebody in.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the rockets have just been bad for a very long time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, there's flashes here and there, but they've also proven in the past that despite the challenges that course field may present, you know, that they can develop a winning baseball team like you

[SPEAKER_00]: saw in the early 2000s and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So in a homegrown town, no less but a lot of the players that came through that system, obviously, you know, I was a young child when that was happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know you were getting vividly remember everything else going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: So as it turns to the page and stuff like that, I mean, starting with Ethan Holiday, getting somebody who has, you know, bloodline statter connected to the Rockies and a player you had heading into the draft had the established track record.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really optimistic top the bottom with

[SPEAKER_00]: there is a lot of work that needs to be done.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think, you know, just to put it into perspective, there are keys.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in existence since 1993, entering 2023, had never had a 100 loss season.

[SPEAKER_01]: They've now had three consecutive 100 loss seasons, including 119 loss season last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And by many metrics outside the wins and loss column, they are considered to be one of the worst teams, 2025 Rockies we're talking about.

[SPEAKER_01]: in the modern era.

[SPEAKER_01]: So things have really, really bottomed out, and I think what's kind of interesting, and I know we're kind of going off board here a little bit, but I think what's interesting when you look at the Rockies, and prior to me handing you over this jewel of an

[SPEAKER_00]: It was that your form of having me pay your dues?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had done, I had written the Rockies for years, even prior to me coming here.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, my, my previous spot, prospects live.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had always done the Rockies farm system.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I had Hartford near me, so it was an affiliate that I saw on a regular basis.

[SPEAKER_01]: And at that point in time, like they had been coming off of a couple of playoff appearances in like 2017 and 2018, there was some depth in the farm system.

[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't as far behind at that point in time as they've kind of fallen.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they've had guys like over the last couple of years who come up and have one good year, and then our anator will repeat it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Brent and Doyle had a huge year in 2024 unable to repeat it.

[SPEAKER_01]: This past season, it was Hunter Goodman.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see, you know, the jury still out if he can repeat his success in 2026.

[SPEAKER_01]: A couple of years ago before that, it was a Zekeel Tovar.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's really regressed or just really not improved the approach as a hitter.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, is there going to be an overhaul of the hitting development focus?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I feel like it's never been, at least maybe now.

[SPEAKER_01]: But a few years ago, now it's covering the system.

[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't a lack of talent, Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: As much as it was, the talent just stayed the same.

[SPEAKER_01]: The guy that you saw on the complex or an A-ball,

[SPEAKER_01]: very rarely was much different from the player that you saw on AA.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a problem.

[SPEAKER_01]: There needs to be progress along the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the reason that we have a sport where guys don't just walk out of the first round, you know, into the starting lineup of their respective organizations on day one.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's why we have the minor leagues and we have player development, et cetera, because there was a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: The you need to learn and adjust, you know, in the professional game.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on to the first guy here who is kind of a prime example of old rockies, I'm not so sure how successful this guy could have been.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're hoping we don't know this, but we're hoping with the new regime, maybe a new focus, that Ethan Holiday can take a step forward and kind of put a really difficult pro debut in the rear view.

[SPEAKER_01]: How difficult was it to rank him at number one, you know, with

[SPEAKER_01]: highly touted prospect in his own right, Charlie Condon, who had his own struggles in early point and pro ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: How difficult was it to rank holiday over him, talking to scouts out there throughout the game that, you know, opposing scouts, etc.

[SPEAKER_01]: How much of a debate was it at one?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, it was relatively easy decision to be able to put him at number one overall.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, heading into the draft, you know, Ethan Holliday's name kind of even even before, you know, kind of named on into circulation.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's been there just being, you know, from the family lineage that comes into play.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you saw what was he going to do in the showcases and everything leading enough to the draft, it was good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like you mentioned, you know, the Rocky's number two prospect is Charlie Condon and obviously had a lot of struggles.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there was a little bit of progression with some swing and misstep,

[SPEAKER_00]: concerns and issues.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's not even a top 100 guy for us right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's also moved to first space only.

[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like and it's just really hard to be able to kind of catapult your way up with the defensive versatility for just a first space guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're bad at popping ass for say somebody like a Nick Kurtz that a couple, you know, around this time last year as he started to begin.

[SPEAKER_00]: So putting holiday at number one was was easy, but you know, it was a little bit concerning to see his pro debut to be specific.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, we were looking at the numbers.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were all working on it together.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, it has plus raw power with an advanced pitch recognition.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when you see what happened down in Fresno, there was a lot of extreme swing and miss.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a 39% strike percentage.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a 42% with freight, you know, against really quality stuff in the zone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was actually just adding one of our oracle reports right now that we're submitted to us in reading it with specifically about Ethan Holiday and the struggles that he had.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a couple of people who did the coaching staff down in low-way friends and did say that it was a timing thing too, that he was failing off a lot of the pitches that, you know, just could it just been past ruined stuff like that or stuff that, you know, if he would have maybe.

[SPEAKER_00]: time, you know, point point point point one seconds a little bit earlier, whatever resulted from a hit to a foul ball.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think, you know, that's just what it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: His swing, you know, from some scouts that I've talked to, we have said that it looks a little bit long and it didn't make the proper adjustments when he was up there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when you look at the young tap attention, I think we're just measuring, you know, what we saw in this pro debut in under 2019, 2019 games, whatever the exact situation was.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, stands at six four is definitely the more, you know, more jack brother between him and Jackson has the more hide has the more muscle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whether he remains that short step or not is going to be a mystery just as he continues to grow.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, his frame is pretty big already what it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And at 18 years old, there's room to grow, room to add muscle is he going to be mobile enough to play there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it somewhere where you change in the third base?

[SPEAKER_00]: I've even heard some scout said that he could ultimately end up as an outfielder.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but, you know, season starting off, you know, more than like he'll start in low way and then I'll get to see him plenty down here in the count and down at the complexes and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a relatively easy decision, especially with this organization respectively.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a case for Condon and I'll say like well Ethan Holliday's draft stock was not as high as maybe it was built even internally.

[SPEAKER_01]: There were major question marks around the hits whole dating back to when it was a high school junior.

[SPEAKER_01]: there was always swinging this here.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's not twitchy or athletic.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's, you know, a below average athlete.

[SPEAKER_01]: I honestly think there's a good case that holiday ends up at first base long term.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you look at the bats of ballability.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,

[SPEAKER_01]: The coaching staff can say, I'm sorry, I'm pushing back at this, but the coaching staff can say, can say foul balls.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a 39.2% in zone wifery.

[SPEAKER_01]: That, like,

[SPEAKER_01]: like just to put it into perspective, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like we get all over Spencer Jones, all right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Spencer and it was a bigger sample size and it's also at a higher level, isn't all the player?

[SPEAKER_01]: That was a 32% in zone width rate.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was catastrophically bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: Almost to the point that if I actually think that they did holiday a disservice by him even playing in games after the draft.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and some of that might be, you know, the

[SPEAKER_01]: organization.

[SPEAKER_01]: For example, like Connor Griffin got shut down after the draft.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was a guy that there were some questions regarding the swing.

[SPEAKER_01]: There were adjustments that were made.

[SPEAKER_01]: There were six or seven months of hard work behind the scenes to get that to where it needed to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ethan Holiday even beyond the Rockies has all of the resources available to him to make the adjustments that he needs to get to more consistent contact.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because as you said,

[SPEAKER_01]: The power is plus plus, I mean, a 105.5 90th percentile EV is an 18 year old out of the draft.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's 7G grade when you look at it, age to level, and all that sort of stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he catches a ton of barrels.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a 26% barrel rate, really high.

[SPEAKER_01]: All of his launch angle, that was pretty good.

[SPEAKER_01]: On the hard hit stuff, like when he actually hit the ball hard, which when he hit hit, it was fairly frequently.

[SPEAKER_01]: 13.2 degree launch angle, so pretty good.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's catching barrels there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nine degree pull side launch angle.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's able to pull the ball in the air pretty consistently.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like his damage numbers, like his ex-woldicon numbers, where they kind of remove contact and approach from the equation were excellent.

[SPEAKER_01]: The approach is fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's passive.

[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't chase a ton.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I kind of look at those numbers, he's as I look at like,

[SPEAKER_01]: the difference between swing rate and chase rate.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a pretty low swing and chase rate.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he takes a lot of pitches for strikes as well, which I think doesn't help.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I wonder how like discerning his eye is frankly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's like this could track the like a 30 hits hole.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, it might be 70 power.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's got an arm.

[SPEAKER_01]: And unlike most prospects he has

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a big leader for a brother and a big leader, you know, all star, former all star for father.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's resources.

[SPEAKER_01]: They are ton of coaches in the family as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, they would take an action.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I wouldn't write it off.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think by the same token, we could talk a little bit about Charlie Condon here.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was really bad after the draft.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that he struggled with some injuries.

[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't have a terrible season.

[SPEAKER_01]: He really didn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: plus underlying power, the contact was an awful 21% in zone with rate, just comparatively, really good swing decisions from content, low chase rate, higher swing rate for a guy with a chase rate as low as he has.

[SPEAKER_01]: Another guy that has excellent angles, I think there's like,

[SPEAKER_01]: a three-true outcome first basement here who could maybe pop like 25 to 30 and you know, probably get a little bit of a boost from the batting and jump balls and play bump at course.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, like I don't want to completely write off condon because it's not like I think's how it is like some defensive wizard or specimen that has.

[SPEAKER_01]: or even as that much better of a hit or if even as a better hit or like I feel like there's similar concerns with both profiles but you know that may also be an indictment of like what the acquisition processes like for the Rockies a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't do this system last year so this is an interesting question for us to talk about but do you think this system is

[SPEAKER_01]: at the beginning of the season to now, we'll say, how much has it improved or gotten worse?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because you did add, you did add Ethan Holiday and it's not like they graduated, you know, any real public.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it just slightly got a little bit better.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, some, you know, they added, obviously some college vats and they added plenty of pretty helped too and a lot of the traits, the Ryan McMahon trade and a couple of other ones that they would do, you know,

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and keeps pitching sprosse fix came over.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, it's slightly better than it was last year, but it's not like it's totally some stats.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, still, you know, bought a tier farmer system for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you had this last year, I guess just had a glimpse especially since you guys helped me allow doing this process.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, I, I think it's a little bit better and there's also like some of that is based on the premise of there's some hope in this system, which is I think something that really did not exist.

[SPEAKER_01]: previously, you know, with this organization, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of the bottomless pit of nothing's ever going to change and they're going to keep on doing the same thing over and over and over again.

[SPEAKER_01]: So now at least, and I don't know if it's reality or not, but now at least there feels to be some element of like, oh, this could potentially get better.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think that we were necessarily

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's a little better and, you know, you got, you did get, you know, one of the top plate prep bats in the class one way or another.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, it's, it's a bad farm system, but it's hard to say that it got any worse year over year after, you know, a full draft class and, you know, some trades at the deadline, you know, it's still not, still not a super deep system, but you do have, you know, a couple of guys here in the top 10,

[SPEAKER_01]: you know, from this most recent draft class.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I would argue that maybe a couple of breakouts too in a guy like Roly Brito and Jackson Cox, who kind of finally was healthy and down the stretch, I think was much better than a lot of people even realize.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of, kind of an interesting arm.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I would say, I agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the system has gotten a little bit better.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on to the next one.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think this is going to change, but who's your guess to be able to win?

[SPEAKER_01]: Are there any other candidates outside of holiday?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the only other guy who I can truly think about that has to potential to go up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know, a big role to breed a guy, but I just don't see him.

[SPEAKER_00]: The clips seem perhaps the number one potential, but a guy that I think outside of our top 10.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean,

[SPEAKER_00]: Top 10 specific, I think Jackson Cox, like you mentioned, if he just continues the progression that we showed specifically being able to remain healthy for one, which is what he was able to do, but especially towards the end of the season, you know,

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he has a possibility to end up as a top three guy next year is the number one potential.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not entirely sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think J.B. Middleton, a picture that they selected out of Southern Misters past here.

[SPEAKER_00]: If they don't, you know, he, you know, still remains a prospector at the next year, which I think should happen next year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he has a potential to kind of eclipse that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's a really tough decision between

[SPEAKER_00]: between him and a Wellington or Rara to have at the number 10 spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just like Wellington or Rara stuff a little bit more and I think that he is going to be a solidified closer eight inning guy down the road.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Middleton, you know, three above average pitches, strong control for games, you know, has limited simply because he has a smaller frame.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think he's somebody that could that could potentially catapult his way up there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if not, I'm banking on holiday again.

[SPEAKER_00]: If I was a Betty Man, I think it would be holiday.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just looking at these names again as a refresher.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, I don't see anybody else.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and, you know, it's not like there's a wealth of options within the organization and then on top of it, because of the way the draft is now with the lottery, the Rockies picked 10th this year, so despite having an all time bad record for the organization,

[SPEAKER_01]: and one of the worst in history, they don't even pick in the top five, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So they're bright songs.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll see we'll see how this this all works out, but they're probably not going to get a player at 10 that's going to rank above holiday unless holiday has an astronomically bad season.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's much of a hater as I was earlier in the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to bank on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to bank on it being that bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do think he's still

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the last one.

[SPEAKER_01]: This might be the trickiest question you're going to get all day on a zoos.

[SPEAKER_01]: What is this organization going to develop it?

[UNKNOWN]: At

[SPEAKER_00]: Silence.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what you're going to say can disorganization develop.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think feel like they pushed their international guys a little too quickly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I was so I just don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say like false hope for anything like that or anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not trying to be it, but it's just how, how, how do you assess the hitting as I'm in good, the pitching has been good.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, role players, oh, one in guns, you know, Hunter Goodman, if, you know,

[SPEAKER_00]: I think at this one, it's got to give the hitters.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's just, I don't know, Jeff, it's kind of really like you mentioned.

[SPEAKER_00]: I totally forgot this question.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to be asking you saw the reaction on my face, but I think you're, I don't think there is a good answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because like even some of the other bad organizations, I think have had more development wins than the Rockies have.

[SPEAKER_01]: But my mind kind of goes to these,

[SPEAKER_01]: These athletic outfielders like a print and Doyle, I think Nolan Jones was an example of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if this question was asked me last year, I would have said those types, you know, guys that have power and kind of like tools and are really outstanding defensive players in the outfield, they kind of get them to a place where like their hit tools are kind of, you know, good enough.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I would have said Jordan Beck could be the next version of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But none of those guys have sustained those gains year over year.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you have guys with that profile, like Cole Carrig, Robert Colis, I mean, Zach Bean for the longest and certainly Thompson can hit, but doesn't really have a position.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they just kind of have them out there in the outfield.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it just hasn't hasn't been able to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Thompson, like you need to like really maximize the power there.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in the angles because he was never going to have a defensive position, you need that bad to be as good as possible for him to really be so like they just don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: seemed to focus on like the right parts of each player's game, which is what I think is a really defining characteristic for the best player development organizations.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think a lot of teams at this point are doing that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is up to this point and this could change.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of exclusive to the Rockies of being kind of very old, you know, hat in terms of their approach to

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Azus, this is the end of the video portion of this podcast, so if you're watching us on YouTube, thank you for tuning in for those of you listening to the podcast version of this stick around we still have a few more questions we're still going to go a little deeper into this rocky farm system, but we're going to do that right after this quick break.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, and we are back.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are talking Rocky's farm system here in the baseball America Prospect podcast or host Jeff Ponce alongside me is Hazoo's cano.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hazoo's, what's getting to the first to the back end questions here, who are some of the sleepers after the top 10?

[SPEAKER_01]: Did they actually have any of those in this system?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they do and I may be a little bit not necessarily more biased, but because I got to see a lot of these guys play in person and a lot more than most people because I'm down here at the complex league, but I think will their dally specifically third basin that played on their ACL team and eventually got promoted to low eight friends now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he was a guy who wasn't as touted in the international signing class that he was a part of kind of forgotten and just over the years has really grown into the body and just has gained the ability to hit, you know, had really strong contract rates and has physical projections as a switch hitting corner guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is he going to be able to hold down the position?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he'll be able to.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he sees

[SPEAKER_00]: ease, I think, relatively, you know, maxed out potentially for his age, both physically, it has really good swing, his swing length and his breaking balls, I think, in recognition against breaking balls is something that's kind of held him back a little bit more, and he could add a little bit of personality to his third base profile too, but I think he's somebody that that kind of sprung out a little bit this past year with the complex, and they had really good players, obviously we talked about role deeds.

[SPEAKER_00]: Who at one point, you know, I had at, you know, number 11 in my rough draft of the top of the top 30 and eventually, you know, with the convincing and obviously consulting with you guys, he skyrocketed to the top five, I think he was a pleasant surprise within the system to see, but I've see we're talking about guys outside the top 10 and think, well, their values has that potential.

[SPEAKER_00]: And think another guy too had a number last year's DSL MVP, Christian Arroyus, you know, now feel different.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Rockies, you know, was a DSL product for them where they did really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And had a leak contact in some control.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is a guy who was able to hit most of the balls that came with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't have a lot of power or anything like that, but he was able just to make contact all over the field.

[SPEAKER_00]: It probably is going to max out to any type of power or anything like that, but place solid defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: The contact skill I can mention is it's borderline close to really, really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, he'll be in the ACL this upcoming year, which is what I've been told by people within the organization.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited to see him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He already comes with the, you know, the declaration in the fan fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have you wouldn't mean the SLMP, but I expect them to kind of have like a really brutal type of season except the biggest differences.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 18.4% with rate for ugliest, that's pretty ridiculous.

[SPEAKER_01]: So.

[SPEAKER_01]: Excuse me, lots of bats above skills there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like the underlying performance was good.

[SPEAKER_01]: The EVs are below average.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he's 18, you know, complex ball, like typically, you know, that could jump a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a 98 mile per hour, 90th percentile, which is obviously not good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did have a 107.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they they felt like he was ready enough to make the jump after because they believe he's a BSL repeater.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had enough to play, you know, be one and done in the DSL, but they wanted to really let him mature and grow into his body a little bit more.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, you know, that ended up being the right call of Duke as he went out in one of the MVP out there for the Rockies and just kind of bolsters up, but they got going down on the lower levels specifically.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, that's kind of interesting and they they honestly covering the system for years they have a lot of DSL repeaters like whether pictures or hitters they seem to have just a ton of DSL guys that spend a couple years there and then then they come state side and then move them too quickly as you said, um,

[SPEAKER_01]: with Sean Sullivan and I've seen Sullivan um dating back to when I was he was in high school and I don't think that he has added a mile per hour onto that fastball in that point of time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um I mean it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is mid, I saw him in 2024, Hazoo's, and he was hitting 86 miles an hour in his fastball.

[SPEAKER_01]: His parents were in front of me too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Place was packed, and his parents were in front of me, and it was like, I can't make any comments at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: I gotta be really, really careful about what I say here.

[SPEAKER_01]: but he's so unusual because it's a weird angle.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like he sat 87 this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like 86 to 88.

[SPEAKER_01]: He touched 90.8.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was his peak velocity.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really weird angle because it's a lower slot.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like a five foot three release height.

[SPEAKER_01]: He got seven and a half feet of extensions.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you can wait down the mound.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a ton of arm side run.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a reasonably high amount of ride for how low his arm slot is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so the fastball plane is unique and he really commands this change up and his slider, but it's, it's so soft.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like, I don't know how many conversations you had about Sullivan throughout the process.

[SPEAKER_01]: Funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm always interested what other, like, what scouts think about him because I just don't know how this could work outside of just being a really weird

[SPEAKER_00]: like when I when I talk when I was talking to a couple of scouts one answer that stood out to me when I mentioned them I mean do you think somebody you know with the mid 80s fastball could have success in the major leagues that's a common question I asked one scout Paulson said name one player who's having success with a mid 80s fastball right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe outside of Ryan, you are burrow.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was absolutely nobody that's been able to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, the angle is really funky.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'd say, I mean, for anybody who's ever seen, what's called Charles Barkley's golf swing, I feel like that's kind of what is the liberty.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very funky.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very unorthodox, but it just makes it hard to read.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like how, how is it's able to happen?

[SPEAKER_00]: Even when players know that, you know,

[SPEAKER_00]: a cutter down the middle is coming in, you know, they just, or I mean, you know, a fastball down the middle is coming in like they just can't able to get the reading.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is a really funky delivery.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think out of all the pictures that I watched for this one, his delivery was the one specifically that I just kept on looking because it's like you see it, it looks uncordinated, it's like all the success that he's able to get.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, you know, a lot of scouts who I've talked to kind of, you know, are split between like, yeah, he can be good, but he'll maybe just be a

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, a guy that comes in when the games, you know, either out of hand or, you know, whatever way it is, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: A guy that makes him the casual spark start for a two or three in and then you go back and whatever, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just, it's just really tough to be able to project how he's able to have success.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, they're writing it all the way through, you know, they continue to plan to continue to develop them as a starter until something tells them they're not.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to be interesting to see how he goes and he's not, he's not too far away,

[SPEAKER_00]: knocking on the door the majors.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, if he continues it at some point, like we are going to find out that answer when he's a throwing, you know, that that fastball at course filler wherever it goes, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Wherever it goes, it could be an interesting angle, a way to end that conversation, because it might go far, far, far away.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha, I wanted to ask you about Zach Vene as we wrap up here.

[SPEAKER_01]: At one point in time, it was the number one overall pick in that 2020 draft class.

[SPEAKER_01]: Full of high school outfield, there is a lot of which you have not paned out at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: Being in still 24 years old for all of 2026, is there any hope, he made his major league debut, but is there any hope around being finally taking that step forward and establishing himself as a major leagueer?

[SPEAKER_01]: The numbers don't look bad, 289, 359, 464 on their face.

[SPEAKER_01]: But for AAA and the PCL, it was a 95 of your RC Plus.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're just to put that into perspective.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those numbers sound good for the major leagues.

[SPEAKER_01]: And most baseball leagues outside a little league, or a high league.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that was 5% below league average in the PCL.

[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't run as much as he used to.

[SPEAKER_01]: The power is never taken that step forward and the hit tool doesn't look or the on-base ability just look as good as it once did.

[SPEAKER_01]: What are the conversations around Vene?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because my last year covering him, he was limited to 110 games between two seasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of it could be kind of washed away with the injuries.

[SPEAKER_01]: What was the feedback like on Vene?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I do want to, I know this is the podcast version of it only right now, but I didn't want to pull out the exact mean bubble head that I got well, it was in college, the first on Brazil is when there was a lot of conversations going on about exactly a lot of them not to neck, not too positive, you know, asses bubble, I was right here in front of me, so there was a lot of subject to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: but with that being said, you know, I think you look at where he was last year and it was just it seemed like every time I was writing the list and I placed him somewhere new, there would be some sort of negative feedback that would just impact my ranking on and based on scouts conversations and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, he's an athletic guy, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And we mentioned that that the the Rockies have a specific, you know, type of guys that they like to draft and attempt to develop.

[SPEAKER_00]: and I think being fits into that mold from a body perspective and from a positional perspective, but it's like you mentioned like it just hasn't been the season that you've been able to see, you know, he's always had that power speed plan when he's healthy, but he's historically just hasn't, you know, he showed solid play discipline, put your recognition, but once it's time to execute and stuff like that, there just isn't really a lot of work that could be able to be able to do and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the fact that you still

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, I think that there's still hope that he'll be able to develop a little bit more, but I mean, this guy was drafted in, I believe, 2020 right he was a 2020 guy and it's been, oh, man, it's almost been, you know, kind of six years since that job, which is kind of crazy to say out loud, right, and George has some in the progression or anything that they've ever seen so far.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, the help, the fact that he's so athletic, I think, kind of helps someone still stick around for this long, but, you know, he had a chance to, you know, when they a position last year into spring training wasn't there when he got his opportunity down the road, it just wasn't able to translate and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: He just hasn't penned out yet and I don't know if, you know, they'll make you just and stuff like that to be able to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, you know, whatever color he wants to die is hair purple last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what it will be.

[SPEAKER_00]: That'll help him burn anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think there's, there's this hope that, you know, that hype certainly since he was last chapter, that's certainly faded.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm, you know, well, I'm seeing a decent amount of spring training and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think there's a lot of optimism around them like in any valuations perspective.

[SPEAKER_00]: Who knows, maybe now under this new regime and stuff like that, they do something they're for an end, they're able to jump in on tapped dental and potentially it stands out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it'll be interesting to kind of track, you know, he was, he's been on the 40 man for a couple of years now, obviously, you know, has used an option.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, there's a good chance he's back at the major leagues this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe he's the guy that that breaks out under this new regime.

[SPEAKER_01]: They, they tap into the untapped Zac Vint potential.

[SPEAKER_01]: We shall see.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Hazie, we just want to thank you for joining me and talking through this

[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, my apologies for handing this off to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you're out there in Arizona.

[SPEAKER_01]: You see these guys much more frequently than I do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully, I'll say that like, I don't owe my top 30.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I saw at least half of those guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: I saw everybody in the top 10 and same thing for the mergers.

[SPEAKER_00]: I saw a lot of those guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's something that take a lot of pride in.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and even salt river fields is about 15 minutes away from me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's fantastic.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to drive down that road.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not as fun going over the peor to watch the mergers, but definitely better to go watch them down the rock

[SPEAKER_00]: I enjoyed it, and I'm excited to see this kind of new crop of guys that they have coming from the international level and all the boys that saw the backfield last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited for this year too, and see what's implemented and get some buzz, talk to some people, and see what the Rock is doing this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right, for Jeff, for Hazoo's, for everybody tuned in on the podcast and on the YouTube, when I thank you guys for joining us today.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I thank all the subscribers out there, for subscribing, it's why we have an opportunity to do this and break down these these farm systems and such great detail.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to all you and have a great week.