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Page 94: the Private Eye Podcast

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Hello welcome to another
episode of Page 94.

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My Andrew Hunter Murray and
I'm here in the I studio with

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Helen Lewis, adam McQueen Ian Hislop.

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We are here on quite

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a fast

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moving news day.

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So

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this is just to

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say that at

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time of recording Kirstan was

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Prime Minister and Peter

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Mandelson hasn't been brought
back in again for another

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job.

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I've

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up

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with a new principle, of, political life.

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the

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thing of the Peter

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principle everyone is employed

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one degree more than they should be.

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This is the

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Peter

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principle where

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you come back one

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time after you really should be.

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One

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time too many.

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One time too many.

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Yeah.

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I would say

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three

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is

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three times many.

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Yeah.

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I suppose we're gonna start off with

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how this whole

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thing unfolded in the first

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place.

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were

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any signs

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possibly that making Peter

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mad

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ambassador

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to the USA was a bad decision?

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Yes.

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The two previous resignations for
basically exactly the same sort of thing,

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which is having slightly suspicious
relationships with wealthy people.

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It's

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how much

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due diligence you

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actually need to do.

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'cause

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you can pretty much guarantee that

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if you he's man on the job, he's gonna
be in with some dodgy, very rich person.

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He's not gonna declare
that to the people he

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should have been.

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gonna open up some

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sort of back channel to do
some kind of dodgy favor

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for them, and he's

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gonna have to resign pretty quickly
and make everyone look stupid.

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it's not, hard

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to work out, is it?

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I'm not saying that I was underwhelmed
by the scandal, but there has been

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a lot of that this is the greatest
scandal since the perfumer affair.

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It's the scandal of the century, whatever.

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And I, kept running into.

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my, but This is what Peter
Mandelson does filter.

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Yeah.

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And I also wonder whether or not
for people who aren't so tuned into

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the Westminster bubble and the soap
opera aspect of it, the way that it's

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affected now, KISS Summers now former
Chief of Staff Morgan McSweeney.

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This was just a kind of like
more sort of SNAs in the trough

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I I,

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it on a par with maybe MP's expenses
perhaps as the most similar scandal of

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the kind, which is I think it would've
validated a lot of people's prejudice

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about the kind of thing that they thought
politicians were all up to anyway.

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I know there's an element

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it, which is very much scorpion

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stings, frog shock.

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But there is also

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an element where we

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promised all of boring process.

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We were promised a that treads

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likely on everyone's lives.

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And

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appear to have

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that.

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I still cannot believe anybody's surprise.

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I've made a point about the cover
about, Beatrice and Eugenie being.

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Sold off to, Epstein, which
we made a long time ago.

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But when he went on that yacht
with Osborne and De Paska,

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private, I ran a cover and we
put in as many puns as we could.

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At the time, I feel sleaze sick every
Mandy for himself, bankers away, corfu

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or a stink.

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it's not as

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though,

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whenever Mandy did anything involving
rich people, no one noticed.

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How

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can he have gone through?

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And

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this is,

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that scandal's not mentioned in
the top three, which are all,

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we

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have to resign over

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one.

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It was

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one of

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the rarities, wasn't it?

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And,

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and you asked yourself why not?

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But it did happen,

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and everybody knew.

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Everybody in politics knew what
happens when you appoint Mandy and they

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did it anyway.

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not to, I know this is my area of
specialist interest and or personal

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psychological scarring, but the
Labour psychodrama of this is quite

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worth, revisiting because essentially
the series of events is, this.

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Kirstan is elected In 2015, having been
a very successful human rights lawyer.

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But fundamentally fairly apolitical.

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And he moves his way through
the Labour ranks by essentially

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attaching himself to Brexit, which
he was shadow Brexit secretary.

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And that's a really useful place to
be in with the membership because they

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were fervently, far more pro-European
than Jeremy Corbin, at the same time

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that they absolutely loved Jeremy
Corbin and were very resistant to

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people from the center and the right
of the party having a go at Corbin.

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But this was the one issue
actually, that Corbin was not

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as one with the membership on.

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So when you get to that leadership
election in 2020, I went to see Ki

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Amadou Hustings, and you would not
have thought you could really put a

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cigarette paper between him and Corbin.

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That's the way he presented it.

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He thought Corbin had been a bit soft
on antisemitism that come up on the

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doorsteps, and he actually wished
that he'd been more, repellent of

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Brexit, both of which were okay with
the membership, but he did not present

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himself as this radical departure.

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But what then subsequently happened
is through Morgan McSweeney

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He

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brought in this entire agenda.

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That was the one in which they
won such a big majority last year,

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which was essentially appealing
to white working class voters.

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People who might have
been Labour to reform

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switches,

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hero voters, they called
them whatever it was.

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But in order to kind of staff that
when the gravity of the party was

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still somewhere in the Corbin to Ed
Milliband Soft left zone, they ended

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up bringing in a lot of blairites.

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And I think this is one of the things
we, as we're recording this, Tim Allen

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has just gone from down Street as
executive Director of Communications.

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He was only brought back in
September, a Blair veteran.

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We've talked before, you've mentioned
Alan Milburn brought in to do health,

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a Blairite veteran, Max, Jonathan
Powell and National Security.

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Yeah.

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and

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this other person who I think will
maybe is a landmine for the future,

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Matthew Doyle, who was a comms person
in the Blair era, brought back to do

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comms for Kier, has just been ennoble
by him and is facing questions about

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whether why he kept supporting a

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guy who had been charged with looking
at child sexual abuse material and then

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ran against Labour as an independent.

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And the common, this

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not

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Epstein, this

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is,

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This is another pedophile just to keep
tracking if you're playing at home.

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but the, one of these issues is the fact
that they essentially, thema, what is

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the Stara project they just bought in
Blairism as a way of staffing up roles.

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'cause they're just and a
long time in opposition, lost

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all their institution memory.

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So you're getting a kind of, I
guess for you two who were in a

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private eye through the Blair areas.

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This is a sort of bizarre deja vu,

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right?

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It's all happening again.

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Yeah.

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Roger Little suddenly

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we're

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talking about, again,

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him,

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he was

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the one that was hosting these Sunday
night dos with, Mandelson and various

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other people.

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he's a yet another name that was knocking
around when I first started at the

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magazine.

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It is extraordinary.

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I, cannot believe there's nobody else
alive in Britain who couldn't do the

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job better than people who worked for
Blair in a very previous government.

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Why why would you let
Mandelson vet candidates.

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Of all people.

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Why would you let Mandelson do anything?

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It's still utterly beyond me.

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But yes, I gather you are
heading towards the center.

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You need some people
who've done things before.

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But do you need people who've
done things before very badly?

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this is the greatest mystery about Mandel,

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isn't it?

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'cause

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always had and maintained this
reputation as being this great PR spinner

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and this

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fantastic

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who can, work

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behind the scenes and
achieve amazing things.

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What all he's ever done is make

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dislike him quite intensely and
turn himself into a symbol of

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corrupt politics repeatedly.

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I think there is something quite
attractive, and as a political journalist,

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you have to be honest about it, about a
people who are really great sources and

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they've got a lot of really good gossip.

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But also people who absolutely love
politics and love the game of politics.

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One of the problems, I, was at the
New Statesman during the Ed Miller

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Band Reign and he ply disdained and
politics was, it was beneath him.

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Why is everybody just plotting always and
briefing and, oh, it's te so terrible.

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and I think Stama has that view too.

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So therefore it is.

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As a journalist, more refreshing
to spend time with people who

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absolutely love, like the George
Osborne, your Ed Balls, people who

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just

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gove

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Michael Gove is a very good example.

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So I think from the point of view of
journalists who work in those circles,

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not only those people, very good sources
of information, but like you, they, enjoy

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the personal drama versus your kind of
Gordon Brown, your kiers, who are, try

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and see themselves as a, as aloof from it.

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I

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the problem with that probably is
that 99.9999% of people in the country

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aren't political journalists and are

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actively repulsed a bit like Ed Miller

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and I think Kiama buy

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by that sort of

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politics.

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doesn't really

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help.

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there has been a slight change
of line, I'd say from Mandelson

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as this story has evolved.

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and

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We should remember he was sacked

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September after a previous
batch of emails was released.

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he's issued an apology
and I'm quoting here to

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the women and girls

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suffered.

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His

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previous

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line when he was asked about this
by the Financial Times was, it's

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an FT obsession and frankly, you

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can

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all fuck off.

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that,

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is a change of

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isn't it?

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It's a change of line.

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light.

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Pr,

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what more

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Pr,

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PR genius

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really got a

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spin.

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But

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But

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I suppose the question
is, and I know the week

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is gonna play

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out with whether these files are
gonna be released, showing what was

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known, when was being vetted for
the job, how the decision was made.

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The Peter files, if

265
00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:16,620
you like.

266
00:08:17,817 --> 00:08:18,297
sorry,

267
00:08:18,638 --> 00:08:18,833
but,

268
00:08:19,524 --> 00:08:20,104
but his line,

269
00:08:20,108 --> 00:08:21,398
and I think this is very important,

270
00:08:21,398 --> 00:08:21,818
is that

271
00:08:22,058 --> 00:08:25,148
everybody else had said, how
could I possibly know this?

272
00:08:25,208 --> 00:08:26,918
I didn't know Peter that well.

273
00:08:27,218 --> 00:08:29,648
This line was repeated by Peter Mandelson.

274
00:08:30,068 --> 00:08:33,595
How could he have known about
Jeffrey Epstein He had no

275
00:08:33,625 --> 00:08:34,765
idea who he was.

276
00:08:34,915 --> 00:08:39,745
And at that point, even the dimmest of
political journalists thinks I better jump

277
00:08:39,745 --> 00:08:40,135
ship.

278
00:08:41,665 --> 00:08:42,565
there was a very

279
00:08:42,565 --> 00:08:45,655
funny piece about the Times,
his attitude, the Times, were a

280
00:08:45,655 --> 00:08:47,375
very pompous leader saying, Who

281
00:08:47,375 --> 00:08:50,255
on Earth thought that Mandel
should be trusted and why?

282
00:08:50,465 --> 00:08:52,535
And then someone pointed
out, you put him on your

283
00:08:52,565 --> 00:08:53,585
election podcast

284
00:08:53,705 --> 00:08:56,405
and you've invited him in
to talk to your journalists.

285
00:08:56,765 --> 00:08:59,855
The very brilliant Simon child writing it.

286
00:08:59,945 --> 00:09:01,415
It is a bit of a point.

287
00:09:01,655 --> 00:09:03,665
You can't thunder when you've had

288
00:09:03,695 --> 00:09:04,385
this person

289
00:09:04,625 --> 00:09:06,215
on Times radio on your

290
00:09:06,245 --> 00:09:06,995
podcast.

291
00:09:07,835 --> 00:09:07,925
Yeah.

292
00:09:07,925 --> 00:09:08,225
Why did

293
00:09:08,225 --> 00:09:08,945
you put him on?

294
00:09:09,065 --> 00:09:09,215
And

295
00:09:09,215 --> 00:09:09,905
if you say, I

296
00:09:10,055 --> 00:09:11,225
him on, 'cause he's really interesting.

297
00:09:11,225 --> 00:09:12,155
He's got good gossip.

298
00:09:12,155 --> 00:09:13,175
You say that's their

299
00:09:13,175 --> 00:09:13,535
line.

300
00:09:13,955 --> 00:09:14,435
What's your

301
00:09:14,435 --> 00:09:14,765
line?

302
00:09:14,915 --> 00:09:15,635
But the line is,

303
00:09:15,712 --> 00:09:16,282
it is

304
00:09:16,342 --> 00:09:16,822
all the way

305
00:09:16,955 --> 00:09:17,645
to Epstein

306
00:09:17,705 --> 00:09:18,305
is,

307
00:09:19,025 --> 00:09:19,775
I was lied to

308
00:09:19,835 --> 00:09:20,555
about this.

309
00:09:20,645 --> 00:09:20,825
So

310
00:09:20,825 --> 00:09:22,085
Mandelson says he was completely

311
00:09:22,145 --> 00:09:22,625
deceived

312
00:09:22,625 --> 00:09:23,240
by Epstein

313
00:09:23,422 --> 00:09:23,782
when he

314
00:09:23,782 --> 00:09:24,502
was visiting

315
00:09:24,502 --> 00:09:25,072
the island

316
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,170
the He never saw any, young

317
00:09:27,170 --> 00:09:27,530
girls

318
00:09:27,530 --> 00:09:27,710
there

319
00:09:27,710 --> 00:09:28,760
or anything like

320
00:09:28,762 --> 00:09:29,152
this,

321
00:09:29,915 --> 00:09:30,275
except

322
00:09:30,275 --> 00:09:30,395
there

323
00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:32,150
were two Swedish women there.

324
00:09:32,510 --> 00:09:32,930
In one

325
00:09:33,470 --> 00:09:33,830
email.

326
00:09:33,830 --> 00:09:35,960
So either he's Blind or

327
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,880
being homosexual, deprived you of

328
00:09:37,882 --> 00:09:38,332
sight,

329
00:09:39,010 --> 00:09:39,360
which

330
00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:39,830
is a

331
00:09:39,862 --> 00:09:39,952
new

332
00:09:39,952 --> 00:09:40,762
he still, that was

333
00:09:40,762 --> 00:09:41,312
the line, wasn't he?

334
00:09:41,312 --> 00:09:41,542
He knew

335
00:09:41,780 --> 00:09:42,590
about it because he's gay.

336
00:09:42,590 --> 00:09:43,340
So he wasn't involved in

337
00:09:43,460 --> 00:09:43,820
sort was, and

338
00:09:44,180 --> 00:09:44,390
then

339
00:09:44,390 --> 00:09:45,260
the, email comes out of him

340
00:09:45,650 --> 00:09:46,220
about, oh, hey,

341
00:09:46,220 --> 00:09:47,060
you're outta prison now.

342
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:47,960
we're celebrating with

343
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,820
some strippers called, Liberty

344
00:09:49,822 --> 00:09:49,942
and

345
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,080
modesty Modesty

346
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:51,170
and,

347
00:09:51,170 --> 00:09:51,530
yeah,

348
00:09:51,935 --> 00:09:52,085
yeah.

349
00:09:52,085 --> 00:09:55,295
But Also in the birthday book, which
came out last year, there's a line,

350
00:09:55,295 --> 00:09:58,565
a, there's pictures of him with
women over age as far as we can tell.

351
00:09:58,565 --> 00:10:01,085
But there's a line about how this,
there was a man called Jeffrey who would

352
00:10:01,085 --> 00:10:02,825
turn up with some interesting friends.

353
00:10:03,125 --> 00:10:06,695
So there's, I, they, and, the Epstein
files are full of references like that

354
00:10:06,695 --> 00:10:09,556
to his reem, to you and your girls,

355
00:10:09,667 --> 00:10:10,147
this is the thing.

356
00:10:10,357 --> 00:10:10,897
Mandelson's

357
00:10:10,927 --> 00:10:13,252
line is I couldn't possibly known and you

358
00:10:13,252 --> 00:10:14,422
can judge for yourself whether,

359
00:10:15,292 --> 00:10:15,502
how

360
00:10:15,502 --> 00:10:15,832
li how

361
00:10:15,832 --> 00:10:16,792
likely that is.

362
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:17,340
But

363
00:10:17,345 --> 00:10:17,395
the

364
00:10:17,407 --> 00:10:17,707
line of

365
00:10:17,797 --> 00:10:18,997
the line of Labour team

366
00:10:19,582 --> 00:10:20,812
Mandelson lied to us when

367
00:10:20,827 --> 00:10:21,577
we were vetting him,

368
00:10:21,595 --> 00:10:22,075
you he

369
00:10:22,075 --> 00:10:22,315
said

370
00:10:22,327 --> 00:10:22,477
that the

371
00:10:22,477 --> 00:10:22,957
relationship

372
00:10:23,092 --> 00:10:23,452
over.

373
00:10:23,660 --> 00:10:23,815
But

374
00:10:23,818 --> 00:10:23,998
this

375
00:10:24,011 --> 00:10:25,601
isn't how vetting works.

376
00:10:26,338 --> 00:10:26,518
you

377
00:10:26,531 --> 00:10:27,012
don't say,

378
00:10:27,655 --> 00:10:27,865
you

379
00:10:27,881 --> 00:10:28,271
in any

380
00:10:28,271 --> 00:10:29,111
way dodgy?

381
00:10:29,261 --> 00:10:30,551
They reply, no, of course

382
00:10:30,565 --> 00:10:31,015
I'm not.

383
00:10:31,165 --> 00:10:31,345
And

384
00:10:31,361 --> 00:10:32,051
then you say, thank

385
00:10:32,068 --> 00:10:32,488
you very much

386
00:10:32,488 --> 00:10:32,848
indeed.

387
00:10:32,848 --> 00:10:33,028
That's

388
00:10:33,028 --> 00:10:33,508
very kind

389
00:10:33,551 --> 00:10:33,731
you,

390
00:10:33,791 --> 00:10:33,911
you

391
00:10:34,060 --> 00:10:34,120
you

392
00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:34,870
have to ask other people

393
00:10:34,888 --> 00:10:35,308
as well

394
00:10:35,758 --> 00:10:35,968
or

395
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:36,238
just

396
00:10:36,238 --> 00:10:37,498
read some papers.

397
00:10:37,738 --> 00:10:37,888
or

398
00:10:37,901 --> 00:10:38,561
can I just point

399
00:10:38,561 --> 00:10:39,191
out or Indeed

400
00:10:39,730 --> 00:10:40,000
command.

401
00:10:40,193 --> 00:10:40,603
very clear.

402
00:10:40,783 --> 00:10:41,003
On

403
00:10:41,050 --> 00:10:41,260
note,

404
00:10:41,261 --> 00:10:41,981
what might have been wise

405
00:10:41,981 --> 00:10:42,431
for everyone

406
00:10:42,431 --> 00:10:42,791
involved

407
00:10:42,850 --> 00:10:44,500
be to, read private eye.

408
00:10:44,650 --> 00:10:46,750
I, it's good advice for anyone
at any time, but this is slicker

409
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,330
writing on the 30th of March, 2009.

410
00:10:49,570 --> 00:10:50,080
So this is

411
00:10:50,441 --> 00:10:50,711
very,

412
00:10:50,711 --> 00:10:51,071
shortly

413
00:10:51,071 --> 00:10:51,311
after

414
00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:52,090
Manton is brought

415
00:10:52,121 --> 00:10:53,861
back into the government
by Gordon Brown Okay.

416
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,890
serve as, trading industry secretary, but

417
00:10:56,908 --> 00:10:57,298
effectively

418
00:10:57,491 --> 00:10:57,941
number two

419
00:10:57,941 --> 00:10:58,451
in the government.

420
00:10:58,451 --> 00:11:01,061
He was very much above darling A
Chancellor in the packing order.

421
00:11:01,468 --> 00:11:02,878
Slicker writes In uncertain

422
00:11:03,250 --> 00:11:03,580
government

423
00:11:03,581 --> 00:11:05,081
ministers need all the expert help they

424
00:11:05,081 --> 00:11:05,471
can get,

425
00:11:05,996 --> 00:11:08,906
which may explain the surely fanciful
suggestion that business secretary

426
00:11:08,906 --> 00:11:09,686
Lord Mandelson

427
00:11:09,850 --> 00:11:10,540
has been discussing

428
00:11:10,556 --> 00:11:11,396
with American Money

429
00:11:11,396 --> 00:11:14,456
Manager Jeffrey Epstein,
the new Obama administration

430
00:11:14,980 --> 00:11:16,210
and new powers on

431
00:11:16,226 --> 00:11:16,856
Wall Street.

432
00:11:17,425 --> 00:11:18,355
Last July, Epstein

433
00:11:18,356 --> 00:11:18,986
began serving an

434
00:11:18,986 --> 00:11:23,126
18 month prison sentence in Florida after
pleading guilty to soliciting sex from

435
00:11:23,128 --> 00:11:23,938
underage girls

436
00:11:24,086 --> 00:11:25,046
young as 14

437
00:11:25,735 --> 00:11:28,165
multimillionaire Epstein, also
a friend of Prince Andrew and

438
00:11:28,166 --> 00:11:30,416
ex-President Clinton has
been on day release from

439
00:11:30,416 --> 00:11:31,316
the Palm Beach County

440
00:11:31,318 --> 00:11:32,488
jail since October.

441
00:11:32,668 --> 00:11:32,968
And so

442
00:11:33,056 --> 00:11:34,826
available to meet and speak by telephone

443
00:11:34,826 --> 00:11:35,426
to friends.

444
00:11:35,756 --> 00:11:36,596
But it is surely

445
00:11:36,598 --> 00:11:37,348
too absurd to

446
00:11:37,706 --> 00:11:37,856
that

447
00:11:37,885 --> 00:11:39,565
British government minister would

448
00:11:39,598 --> 00:11:40,768
be talking to a jailbird.

449
00:11:40,768 --> 00:11:41,608
So these suggestions

450
00:11:41,608 --> 00:11:42,028
cannot

451
00:11:42,115 --> 00:11:42,392
true.

452
00:11:42,566 --> 00:11:44,066
30 of the March, 2009.

453
00:11:44,396 --> 00:11:44,816
Wow.

454
00:11:45,085 --> 00:11:45,235
Was

455
00:11:45,235 --> 00:11:45,385
that

456
00:11:45,385 --> 00:11:45,775
a case of

457
00:11:45,775 --> 00:11:46,405
sort of lawyer

458
00:11:46,405 --> 00:11:46,855
induced

459
00:11:46,855 --> 00:11:47,515
sarcasm?

460
00:11:49,225 --> 00:11:50,455
That's how I think of the tone of that.

461
00:11:50,905 --> 00:11:52,585
that can't possibly be happening.

462
00:11:52,618 --> 00:11:53,098
because Very

463
00:11:53,210 --> 00:11:53,370
possibly.

464
00:11:53,995 --> 00:11:54,985
he followed up, slicker, followed

465
00:11:55,016 --> 00:11:55,166
up

466
00:11:55,166 --> 00:11:55,496
again

467
00:11:55,496 --> 00:11:56,096
a couple of years later.

468
00:11:56,215 --> 00:11:56,335
is

469
00:11:56,933 --> 00:11:57,113
which

470
00:11:57,130 --> 00:11:57,220
is

471
00:11:57,220 --> 00:11:57,940
when the, the

472
00:11:58,267 --> 00:11:59,077
story starts

473
00:11:59,080 --> 00:11:59,530
to get slightly

474
00:11:59,797 --> 00:12:00,487
circulation.

475
00:12:00,997 --> 00:12:01,627
he points out

476
00:12:01,627 --> 00:12:04,807
that, it suggested Mandelson
contacted Epstein while

477
00:12:04,823 --> 00:12:05,483
he was on day release

478
00:12:05,483 --> 00:12:05,633
from a

479
00:12:05,977 --> 00:12:08,857
prison to see whether he could
help smooth the way for the then

480
00:12:08,890 --> 00:12:09,700
business secretary

481
00:12:09,877 --> 00:12:10,387
to contact

482
00:12:10,403 --> 00:12:12,383
leading Wall Street banker Jamie Deon,

483
00:12:12,517 --> 00:12:13,987
chief executive of JP Morgan

484
00:12:14,003 --> 00:12:14,483
Chase,

485
00:12:14,577 --> 00:12:15,357
to discuss

486
00:12:15,373 --> 00:12:18,163
important financial matters,
which is exactly the stuff

487
00:12:18,237 --> 00:12:18,537
was coming

488
00:12:18,553 --> 00:12:19,783
out in the emails last week,

489
00:12:20,187 --> 00:12:20,607
about,

490
00:12:20,707 --> 00:12:21,247
Mandelson

491
00:12:21,250 --> 00:12:22,390
suggesting to Epstein that,

492
00:12:22,613 --> 00:12:22,913
JP

493
00:12:23,167 --> 00:12:23,407
should

494
00:12:23,603 --> 00:12:25,193
mildly threaten Alistair Darling,

495
00:12:25,193 --> 00:12:25,433
that then

496
00:12:25,450 --> 00:12:26,140
chancellor over

497
00:12:26,140 --> 00:12:26,680
the proposed

498
00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:27,820
banker's bonuses,

499
00:12:28,252 --> 00:12:28,612
ban,

500
00:12:29,063 --> 00:12:29,483
right?

501
00:12:30,127 --> 00:12:30,277
So

502
00:12:30,293 --> 00:12:30,473
it's

503
00:12:30,473 --> 00:12:30,713
all there.

504
00:12:30,894 --> 00:12:31,177
It's all

505
00:12:31,177 --> 00:12:31,297
there.

506
00:12:31,297 --> 00:12:31,387
It's

507
00:12:31,403 --> 00:12:31,523
all

508
00:12:31,523 --> 00:12:31,913
in the eye.

509
00:12:33,362 --> 00:12:34,352
as, Helen says, it may

510
00:12:34,383 --> 00:12:35,283
not be the biggest

511
00:12:35,642 --> 00:12:40,682
ever, but suggesting government policy
should be shared and influenced by Major

512
00:12:40,713 --> 00:12:41,223
Peter files.

513
00:12:41,745 --> 00:12:42,890
It's, it's probably

514
00:12:42,903 --> 00:12:43,773
a bit new, isn't

515
00:12:43,787 --> 00:12:43,967
it?

516
00:12:44,705 --> 00:12:44,795
I

517
00:12:44,795 --> 00:12:45,005
think

518
00:12:45,018 --> 00:12:45,438
in terms

519
00:12:45,482 --> 00:12:46,502
how high it goes as

520
00:12:46,535 --> 00:12:46,685
well.

521
00:12:46,835 --> 00:12:47,525
we were saying literally he

522
00:12:47,538 --> 00:12:49,428
was pretty much second in
command in the government.

523
00:12:49,830 --> 00:12:50,888
the profumo affair, which

524
00:12:50,904 --> 00:12:51,684
this has being compared to,

525
00:12:51,731 --> 00:12:52,391
there wasn't even

526
00:12:52,404 --> 00:12:53,244
any accusation.

527
00:12:53,244 --> 00:12:53,334
I

528
00:12:53,334 --> 00:12:54,144
don't think the Profumo

529
00:12:54,144 --> 00:12:55,134
had leaked anything,

530
00:12:56,694 --> 00:12:57,054
via,

531
00:12:57,054 --> 00:12:57,174
his

532
00:12:57,191 --> 00:12:57,521
various

533
00:12:57,984 --> 00:12:58,404
It was just

534
00:12:58,448 --> 00:12:59,018
fact that he was,

535
00:12:59,258 --> 00:12:59,828
sleeping with

536
00:12:59,861 --> 00:13:00,251
Christine Kiler

537
00:13:00,264 --> 00:13:00,984
at the same time that she

538
00:13:00,984 --> 00:13:01,404
was sleeping

539
00:13:01,404 --> 00:13:02,964
with with a Russian spy.

540
00:13:03,174 --> 00:13:03,294
in

541
00:13:03,294 --> 00:13:04,104
terms of actual leak

542
00:13:04,358 --> 00:13:05,018
it tended to be very

543
00:13:05,291 --> 00:13:06,371
low down people.

544
00:13:06,671 --> 00:13:06,941
Usually

545
00:13:06,954 --> 00:13:07,824
the Ministry of Defense

546
00:13:07,824 --> 00:13:08,574
was the kinda the weakest

547
00:13:08,591 --> 00:13:09,461
place, but it was low down.

548
00:13:09,461 --> 00:13:09,941
civil servant.

549
00:13:10,058 --> 00:13:10,838
was actually the second

550
00:13:11,034 --> 00:13:11,364
powerful

551
00:13:11,364 --> 00:13:11,814
man in the country.

552
00:13:11,814 --> 00:13:12,714
It was quite prepared

553
00:13:12,938 --> 00:13:13,448
to discuss

554
00:13:13,464 --> 00:13:15,534
market sensitive information,

555
00:13:15,534 --> 00:13:16,584
confidential documents and

556
00:13:18,293 --> 00:13:18,503
share

557
00:13:18,521 --> 00:13:18,731
them with,

558
00:13:19,208 --> 00:13:21,668
but share them, particularly
with an American pedophile

559
00:13:21,791 --> 00:13:22,541
does seem quite

560
00:13:22,554 --> 00:13:23,034
major.

561
00:13:23,603 --> 00:13:23,963
And,

562
00:13:23,993 --> 00:13:24,113
the

563
00:13:24,144 --> 00:13:25,074
line that Andy's

564
00:13:25,583 --> 00:13:27,233
is that everyone lied to everyone.

565
00:13:27,662 --> 00:13:27,932
Peter

566
00:13:27,963 --> 00:13:28,353
Balson

567
00:13:29,132 --> 00:13:31,412
voluntarily handed over

568
00:13:31,443 --> 00:13:33,003
the information straight away.

569
00:13:33,842 --> 00:13:35,522
And then lied to the Prime Minister.

570
00:13:36,392 --> 00:13:37,412
so it's

571
00:13:37,443 --> 00:13:37,653
not

572
00:13:37,653 --> 00:13:38,013
just

573
00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:38,921
passive.

574
00:13:39,018 --> 00:13:39,678
I suppose the thing

575
00:13:39,711 --> 00:13:39,801
I'm

576
00:13:39,814 --> 00:13:41,418
interested in at what point

577
00:13:41,601 --> 00:13:43,131
does believing

578
00:13:43,461 --> 00:13:43,641
you

579
00:13:43,654 --> 00:13:45,918
are being lied to by someone is a

580
00:13:46,818 --> 00:13:47,268
proven

581
00:13:47,268 --> 00:13:47,748
liar,

582
00:13:48,411 --> 00:13:49,401
become culpable.

583
00:13:49,971 --> 00:13:50,121
it

584
00:13:50,121 --> 00:13:50,631
seems

585
00:13:50,823 --> 00:13:50,903
possible.

586
00:13:50,903 --> 00:13:51,078
This is the

587
00:13:51,078 --> 00:13:51,438
Cretin

588
00:13:51,471 --> 00:13:52,101
paradox,

589
00:13:52,101 --> 00:13:52,221
right?

590
00:13:52,938 --> 00:13:53,118
It's

591
00:13:53,118 --> 00:13:54,558
the Cretin paradox.

592
00:13:56,181 --> 00:13:56,361
It

593
00:13:56,361 --> 00:13:56,703
seems,

594
00:13:56,721 --> 00:13:57,051
plausible

595
00:13:57,064 --> 00:13:58,264
that the

596
00:13:58,264 --> 00:13:58,804
only world

597
00:13:58,804 --> 00:13:59,104
leader

598
00:13:59,104 --> 00:13:59,524
to be brought

599
00:13:59,524 --> 00:13:59,764
down

600
00:13:59,764 --> 00:14:01,264
by Epstein files is Kia Starer.

601
00:14:01,264 --> 00:14:01,564
someone

602
00:14:01,581 --> 00:14:01,791
who,

603
00:14:01,803 --> 00:14:02,013
as

604
00:14:02,013 --> 00:14:02,854
far as I can tell, would

605
00:14:02,854 --> 00:14:03,724
absolutely

606
00:14:03,724 --> 00:14:06,513
never have consorted with
anyone Epstein, someone

607
00:14:06,513 --> 00:14:07,113
who seems,

608
00:14:09,303 --> 00:14:10,653
pretty, square

609
00:14:10,923 --> 00:14:11,103
and

610
00:14:11,103 --> 00:14:11,673
prosecuted.

611
00:14:11,673 --> 00:14:11,853
Quite

612
00:14:11,858 --> 00:14:11,948
a lot

613
00:14:12,028 --> 00:14:12,108
of

614
00:14:12,108 --> 00:14:12,188
people

615
00:14:12,363 --> 00:14:14,973
guess, prosecuted people
like this, rights lawyer,

616
00:14:15,663 --> 00:14:17,134
this is extraordinary, isn't it?

617
00:14:17,794 --> 00:14:18,214
I know.

618
00:14:18,313 --> 00:14:19,988
Donald is named thousands of time in

619
00:14:20,005 --> 00:14:20,065
the

620
00:14:20,065 --> 00:14:20,425
files,

621
00:14:20,438 --> 00:14:20,528
and

622
00:14:20,528 --> 00:14:21,278
apparently this just

623
00:14:21,278 --> 00:14:21,488
cuts

624
00:14:21,488 --> 00:14:22,538
no ice at all in the

625
00:14:22,555 --> 00:14:22,870
USA.

626
00:14:23,627 --> 00:14:23,747
I

627
00:14:24,022 --> 00:14:26,632
I think you have to look at it in
the context of the fact that quite

628
00:14:26,632 --> 00:14:29,782
a lot of the parliamentary Labour
party think that Stan is a lemon.

629
00:14:30,487 --> 00:14:34,742
the scandal is one thing in itself,
but a bit like, who really outside

630
00:14:34,742 --> 00:14:37,432
of nerds like us remembers the
Chris pincher scandal, right?

631
00:14:37,672 --> 00:14:39,382
In terms of doing for Boris Johnson.

632
00:14:39,622 --> 00:14:42,532
But it was finding the accumulation
of a lot of people thinking,

633
00:14:42,562 --> 00:14:43,582
we are better off without you

634
00:14:43,582 --> 00:14:43,732
than

635
00:14:43,753 --> 00:14:44,173
with you.

636
00:14:44,610 --> 00:14:44,760
Right.

637
00:14:44,782 --> 00:14:47,722
And so I think that's, you
have to see it as part of that.

638
00:14:47,902 --> 00:14:48,562
I know what you mean.

639
00:14:48,562 --> 00:14:52,792
It does seem odd that so few consequences
have been suffered by anybody in America.

640
00:14:52,792 --> 00:14:56,807
A few people have lost a, some
TV gigs and some, administrative

641
00:14:56,807 --> 00:14:59,867
stuff in US universities So there
has been some collateral damage.

642
00:15:00,137 --> 00:15:03,152
But in terms of the political
scandal, the fact that Donald

643
00:15:03,152 --> 00:15:06,617
Trump fell out with Jeffrey Epstein
in the two thousands before all

644
00:15:06,637 --> 00:15:07,297
these emails

645
00:15:07,367 --> 00:15:10,997
occur, and the fact, I suspect
that this was man used to fax mean

646
00:15:10,997 --> 00:15:13,907
things to his email, his enemies
really quite late into the nineties.

647
00:15:14,117 --> 00:15:16,277
I'm not sure he'd ever really
got to grips with email.

648
00:15:16,487 --> 00:15:20,117
Just means that actually Trump has escaped
this, But there's also the fact that he's

649
00:15:20,117 --> 00:15:22,997
elected president for a four year term,
there's really no way to get rid of him.

650
00:15:23,619 --> 00:15:23,739
So

651
00:15:23,897 --> 00:15:25,667
just not that live question in the way.

652
00:15:25,937 --> 00:15:30,982
And I felt like about a week ago, there
was just this kind of Cent of blood in

653
00:15:30,982 --> 00:15:32,962
the air, essentially from the lobby.

654
00:15:32,962 --> 00:15:34,942
And, that they just
thought, hang on a minute.

655
00:15:34,942 --> 00:15:35,812
We like, we've

656
00:15:35,827 --> 00:15:36,217
got him.

657
00:15:37,247 --> 00:15:40,642
and at that point it becomes, it always
becomes very unpleasant actually.

658
00:15:40,942 --> 00:15:43,402
George Osborne and Ed balls were
talking about this in their podcast,

659
00:15:43,402 --> 00:15:44,302
and George Osborne did this thing.

660
00:15:44,302 --> 00:15:47,752
We said, I never like this bit when you
see this sort of hunting pack mentality.

661
00:15:47,907 --> 00:15:51,112
And I thought, I bet you Shad Having
been on the end of it a couple of times.

662
00:15:51,382 --> 00:15:54,952
But then both of them ends up saying,
I was shocked by the bit where you

663
00:15:54,952 --> 00:15:58,132
would be in government and you would
just press forward on your email

664
00:15:58,132 --> 00:16:00,202
from the treasury onto someone else.

665
00:16:00,472 --> 00:16:04,132
I think that's the bit that even people
who thought they, and in the case of

666
00:16:04,132 --> 00:16:05,392
George Osborn knew Mandelson quite

667
00:16:05,409 --> 00:16:05,589
well,

668
00:16:06,562 --> 00:16:08,932
actually ed Balls and a
sort of frenemy kind of way.

669
00:16:09,142 --> 00:16:12,232
But that, that, I think people were
genuinely shocked by that even, and

670
00:16:12,232 --> 00:16:13,342
I don't think that was fake shock.

671
00:16:13,342 --> 00:16:14,152
I think that was real

672
00:16:14,152 --> 00:16:14,482
shock

673
00:16:14,482 --> 00:16:14,812
actually.

674
00:16:14,812 --> 00:16:15,082
that It was

675
00:16:15,082 --> 00:16:15,382
worse

676
00:16:15,382 --> 00:16:15,742
even

677
00:16:15,742 --> 00:16:16,012
than

678
00:16:16,117 --> 00:16:16,417
they thought.

679
00:16:17,412 --> 00:16:17,632
Are

680
00:16:17,724 --> 00:16:17,994
Are you saying

681
00:16:18,384 --> 00:16:18,954
we're not remotely

682
00:16:19,297 --> 00:16:21,187
that he consort with a
pedophile after conviction,

683
00:16:21,637 --> 00:16:21,757
but

684
00:16:21,757 --> 00:16:21,967
this

685
00:16:21,967 --> 00:16:22,687
email forwarding

686
00:16:22,704 --> 00:16:22,974
think is

687
00:16:22,974 --> 00:16:23,394
outrageous.

688
00:16:23,497 --> 00:16:23,617
Yes.

689
00:16:23,812 --> 00:16:24,202
Yes.

690
00:16:24,502 --> 00:16:25,552
genuinely yes.

691
00:16:25,762 --> 00:16:31,732
On the basis that Lord Manon has always
delighted in this reputation of the Prince

692
00:16:31,732 --> 00:16:33,562
of Darkness and whatever it might be.

693
00:16:33,562 --> 00:16:38,182
I, And, his lobbying firm had a group
of people whose Wikipedia pages have got

694
00:16:38,182 --> 00:16:40,372
very long controversies sections, right?

695
00:16:40,732 --> 00:16:44,819
this is this has always been
his shtick, but I think the

696
00:16:44,819 --> 00:16:46,679
word that ki used was betrayal.

697
00:16:46,769 --> 00:16:49,289
And I think there are lots of people
within the political class who do feel

698
00:16:49,289 --> 00:16:50,519
like that, that this is a betrayal.

699
00:16:50,549 --> 00:16:53,759
This is so outrageous that you
just wouldn't have comprehended,

700
00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:55,529
that anybody would not know.

701
00:16:55,529 --> 00:16:56,969
that this was just, You should never

702
00:16:56,972 --> 00:16:57,182
do

703
00:16:57,182 --> 00:16:57,542
this.

704
00:16:58,322 --> 00:16:58,862
equally in terms

705
00:16:59,069 --> 00:16:59,939
Trump patenting on it,

706
00:17:00,092 --> 00:17:00,542
you talk about

707
00:17:00,644 --> 00:17:01,634
lobbying firm, his global

708
00:17:02,879 --> 00:17:03,989
absolutely secretive

709
00:17:03,989 --> 00:17:04,649
about what clients

710
00:17:04,709 --> 00:17:05,489
was representing there.

711
00:17:05,807 --> 00:17:06,347
still, right

712
00:17:06,419 --> 00:17:07,499
until last week, serving as

713
00:17:07,529 --> 00:17:08,009
a member of the

714
00:17:08,159 --> 00:17:08,639
of Lords, a

715
00:17:08,639 --> 00:17:08,969
member

716
00:17:08,969 --> 00:17:09,629
of Parliament,

717
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:10,019
he?

718
00:17:10,229 --> 00:17:10,589
And,

719
00:17:10,829 --> 00:17:13,979
he claimed that, the
rules, did not apply to

720
00:17:13,979 --> 00:17:14,219
him

721
00:17:14,219 --> 00:17:14,789
as a peer,

722
00:17:15,029 --> 00:17:18,118
that he did not have to disclose
who these clients were, that,

723
00:17:18,478 --> 00:17:19,948
his lobbying firm lobbied for.

724
00:17:19,948 --> 00:17:20,098
And

725
00:17:20,098 --> 00:17:20,398
as you

726
00:17:20,398 --> 00:17:20,518
would

727
00:17:20,518 --> 00:17:21,148
expect,

728
00:17:21,733 --> 00:17:22,273
everyone

729
00:17:22,318 --> 00:17:22,798
a wronging

730
00:17:25,063 --> 00:17:26,683
the list is unbelievable.

731
00:17:26,683 --> 00:17:26,953
Even

732
00:17:26,956 --> 00:17:27,226
list of,

733
00:17:27,298 --> 00:17:27,958
Saron technology

734
00:17:27,958 --> 00:17:28,738
is limited.

735
00:17:29,038 --> 00:17:29,668
Emperor pal

736
00:17:29,721 --> 00:17:30,001
appetite.

737
00:17:30,271 --> 00:17:30,561
Yeah.

738
00:17:30,961 --> 00:17:31,481
LLC.

739
00:17:31,591 --> 00:17:31,881
Yeah,

740
00:17:31,963 --> 00:17:33,163
absolutely.

741
00:17:33,313 --> 00:17:33,883
Nuclear,

742
00:17:33,883 --> 00:17:35,068
south African tobacco,

743
00:17:35,188 --> 00:17:35,218
uh,

744
00:17:36,478 --> 00:17:38,008
you name it, they're all in there.

745
00:17:38,683 --> 00:17:42,043
and it was, again, this is this old

746
00:17:42,403 --> 00:17:42,943
hiding in

747
00:17:42,958 --> 00:17:44,158
plain sight business.

748
00:17:44,623 --> 00:17:48,820
I dunno how many pieces Richard Brooks
wrote for us about, Mandy's lobbying firm.

749
00:17:49,390 --> 00:17:49,570
but

750
00:17:49,993 --> 00:17:50,383
it was,

751
00:17:50,413 --> 00:17:50,803
this.

752
00:17:51,140 --> 00:17:53,450
area between business and politics.

753
00:17:53,690 --> 00:17:56,030
that's described on
their mission statement.

754
00:17:56,030 --> 00:17:56,120
You

755
00:17:56,136 --> 00:17:56,146
think.

756
00:17:56,243 --> 00:17:56,313
You think

757
00:17:56,990 --> 00:17:57,710
that's the

758
00:17:57,743 --> 00:17:58,673
area we don't

759
00:17:58,673 --> 00:17:59,213
want.

760
00:17:59,730 --> 00:17:59,950
We

761
00:18:00,050 --> 00:18:01,490
want politics and

762
00:18:01,506 --> 00:18:01,926
we want

763
00:18:02,390 --> 00:18:02,810
and we do

764
00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:03,170
not.

765
00:18:03,170 --> 00:18:03,470
want

766
00:18:03,470 --> 00:18:03,980
you.

767
00:18:04,043 --> 00:18:06,683
it was helping clients see opportunities

768
00:18:06,785 --> 00:18:07,265
politics.

769
00:18:07,505 --> 00:18:09,425
it's pretty blatant in terms of

770
00:18:09,593 --> 00:18:09,983
one of those

771
00:18:09,996 --> 00:18:10,446
opportunities in

772
00:18:10,775 --> 00:18:11,165
of course, was

773
00:18:11,166 --> 00:18:11,856
the hosted a dinner

774
00:18:11,873 --> 00:18:15,593
for Palantir, Peter
Fields, company, with a

775
00:18:15,606 --> 00:18:16,566
load of NHS bosses

776
00:18:16,583 --> 00:18:16,763
just

777
00:18:16,925 --> 00:18:17,345
they picked up

778
00:18:17,363 --> 00:18:17,963
an enormous,

779
00:18:18,485 --> 00:18:19,145
NHS data

780
00:18:19,146 --> 00:18:19,686
contract in

781
00:18:19,686 --> 00:18:20,646
2023. That was one

782
00:18:20,646 --> 00:18:20,736
of

783
00:18:21,005 --> 00:18:21,455
stories.

784
00:18:21,455 --> 00:18:21,545
Yes.

785
00:18:22,373 --> 00:18:22,613
there's

786
00:18:22,613 --> 00:18:23,513
an awful lot more

787
00:18:23,526 --> 00:18:24,036
of these as

788
00:18:24,036 --> 00:18:24,396
well,

789
00:18:24,906 --> 00:18:25,116
and the

790
00:18:25,116 --> 00:18:27,456
idea that this was a good person to have

791
00:18:27,695 --> 00:18:29,975
in charge of your, American

792
00:18:30,021 --> 00:18:30,561
Embassy,

793
00:18:31,475 --> 00:18:35,075
and I, again, I do not buy this
argument that they all say,

794
00:18:35,451 --> 00:18:35,901
it was,

795
00:18:36,515 --> 00:18:39,665
High risk, low something, appointment.

796
00:18:39,785 --> 00:18:41,945
It was a very high risk, no possible

797
00:18:41,991 --> 00:18:43,131
benefit appointment.

798
00:18:43,685 --> 00:18:45,035
the diplomatic service is

799
00:18:45,035 --> 00:18:45,275
not

800
00:18:45,275 --> 00:18:45,785
short of

801
00:18:45,785 --> 00:18:46,265
people

802
00:18:46,385 --> 00:18:47,645
who can go in and suck up

803
00:18:47,645 --> 00:18:48,395
to foreigners.

804
00:18:48,575 --> 00:18:49,565
That is part of

805
00:18:49,611 --> 00:18:50,121
the job.

806
00:18:50,577 --> 00:18:52,107
this isn't a new observation

807
00:18:52,122 --> 00:18:52,212
and

808
00:18:52,212 --> 00:18:52,302
you

809
00:18:52,362 --> 00:18:52,602
don't

810
00:18:52,602 --> 00:18:52,752
have

811
00:18:52,787 --> 00:18:52,907
to

812
00:18:52,912 --> 00:18:52,922
have

813
00:18:52,922 --> 00:18:54,027
balson to do it.

814
00:18:54,237 --> 00:18:54,387
So

815
00:18:54,387 --> 00:18:54,507
you

816
00:18:54,507 --> 00:18:54,867
don't buy,

817
00:18:54,867 --> 00:18:55,017
you

818
00:18:55,017 --> 00:18:55,227
don't

819
00:18:55,244 --> 00:18:55,934
buy the, we

820
00:18:55,934 --> 00:18:56,294
needed a

821
00:18:56,607 --> 00:18:57,897
creature to be in the swamp

822
00:18:58,137 --> 00:18:58,437
line.

823
00:18:58,797 --> 00:19:01,592
Previous ambassador did a
perfectly good job, right.

824
00:19:02,212 --> 00:19:03,477
Why appoint a political

825
00:19:03,507 --> 00:19:04,077
appointee.

826
00:19:04,182 --> 00:19:07,062
There was a, I think that was one
of the many things that has pissed

827
00:19:07,062 --> 00:19:10,902
off the PLP because that Karen
Pearce was welllike respected,

828
00:19:10,902 --> 00:19:11,682
seemed to be getting on the job.

829
00:19:11,682 --> 00:19:14,532
There was no, there was no
black marks against her record.

830
00:19:14,802 --> 00:19:17,922
And they parachuted in Peter
Mandelson, essentially because he

831
00:19:17,922 --> 00:19:20,592
was a mate of Morgan McSweeney's.

832
00:19:21,132 --> 00:19:24,252
And I think that's maybe part of
the, rage that Kirsten's feeling is,

833
00:19:24,342 --> 00:19:28,542
I think he feels he was duped into
this, but he's the one with his name.

834
00:19:28,782 --> 00:19:29,112
I was gonna say

835
00:19:29,112 --> 00:19:29,202
his

836
00:19:29,202 --> 00:19:29,952
name above the door,

837
00:19:29,952 --> 00:19:30,162
unless

838
00:19:30,162 --> 00:19:30,462
his name's

839
00:19:30,492 --> 00:19:30,822
10.

840
00:19:30,822 --> 00:19:31,332
That's not true.

841
00:19:31,662 --> 00:19:32,202
But like

842
00:19:32,652 --> 00:19:34,002
Ultimately, he's the prime minister.

843
00:19:34,002 --> 00:19:35,592
That's, who he's the ultimate decider.

844
00:19:35,988 --> 00:19:39,513
and the other thing it really
spoke to was a sense that I've been

845
00:19:39,513 --> 00:19:43,053
hearing for coming up two years
now, about the sense of a kind of

846
00:19:43,053 --> 00:19:45,333
little boys club clique in number 10.

847
00:19:45,843 --> 00:19:49,953
And, there's lots of women working number
10 star's, two new chiefs of staff.

848
00:19:50,073 --> 00:19:50,793
one's acting both

849
00:19:50,794 --> 00:19:51,124
women,

850
00:19:51,723 --> 00:19:52,173
for example.

851
00:19:52,173 --> 00:19:55,203
But there was a feeling that there
was a kind of little, group of

852
00:19:55,203 --> 00:19:58,053
people who just got this sort of
stitched up in amongst themselves.

853
00:19:58,893 --> 00:20:01,233
and I think that's the Karen
Pierce thing spoke to that

854
00:20:01,233 --> 00:20:01,503
is that

855
00:20:01,683 --> 00:20:03,903
particularly the women's PRP were
like, hang a minute, you've got rid

856
00:20:03,903 --> 00:20:07,413
of this very well qualified woman
in order to put in a very dodgy

857
00:20:07,444 --> 00:20:07,894
man.

858
00:20:08,719 --> 00:20:09,169
What that

859
00:20:09,453 --> 00:20:09,603
There

860
00:20:09,603 --> 00:20:09,723
was

861
00:20:09,723 --> 00:20:09,753
a

862
00:20:09,753 --> 00:20:09,963
kind

863
00:20:09,963 --> 00:20:10,083
of,

864
00:20:10,563 --> 00:20:10,773
what's

865
00:20:10,773 --> 00:20:10,953
that

866
00:20:10,953 --> 00:20:11,313
all,

867
00:20:11,433 --> 00:20:11,733
what's that

868
00:20:11,733 --> 00:20:12,543
all about actually?

869
00:20:12,651 --> 00:20:12,801
Because

870
00:20:12,889 --> 00:20:12,919
are

871
00:20:12,921 --> 00:20:13,071
are no

872
00:20:13,071 --> 00:20:13,491
terms.

873
00:20:13,491 --> 00:20:13,581
It

874
00:20:13,581 --> 00:20:13,791
wasn't

875
00:20:13,791 --> 00:20:13,881
as

876
00:20:13,969 --> 00:20:14,869
she was coming up to the end of

877
00:20:14,871 --> 00:20:15,111
a set

878
00:20:15,111 --> 00:20:15,471
term as

879
00:20:15,471 --> 00:20:15,531
the

880
00:20:15,949 --> 00:20:16,789
You just get appointed.

881
00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:16,879
And

882
00:20:16,879 --> 00:20:17,119
then,

883
00:20:17,373 --> 00:20:17,733
yeah, I

884
00:20:18,141 --> 00:20:18,441
it was.

885
00:20:18,441 --> 00:20:18,531
a,

886
00:20:18,813 --> 00:20:19,353
You are right.

887
00:20:19,353 --> 00:20:22,353
The way that people defended it at
the time was essentially like, MAGA

888
00:20:22,353 --> 00:20:23,073
is horrifically

889
00:20:23,073 --> 00:20:23,553
corrupt.

890
00:20:23,553 --> 00:20:24,423
Why don't we send

891
00:20:24,423 --> 00:20:25,443
over someone who won't make them

892
00:20:25,443 --> 00:20:26,403
feel ill at ease?

893
00:20:28,011 --> 00:20:28,191
But

894
00:20:28,318 --> 00:20:32,133
isn't the, lesson of the past six
months that sending people who

895
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:32,419
are

896
00:20:32,419 --> 00:20:33,319
a bit straight,

897
00:20:33,739 --> 00:20:34,879
into battle against

898
00:20:35,013 --> 00:20:36,363
Trump, like Mark Carney

899
00:20:36,379 --> 00:20:37,009
works,

900
00:20:37,893 --> 00:20:38,043
and

901
00:20:38,043 --> 00:20:38,133
the

902
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:38,959
people who stand up

903
00:20:39,063 --> 00:20:40,353
him get results.

904
00:20:40,413 --> 00:20:42,993
The people who don't our
brilliant China deal.

905
00:20:44,013 --> 00:20:46,003
not only have we got
nothing at all, but Jimmy

906
00:20:46,019 --> 00:20:46,529
Li goes to

907
00:20:46,873 --> 00:20:47,623
for 20 years.

908
00:20:47,791 --> 00:20:47,911
Oh,

909
00:20:47,939 --> 00:20:48,569
that was good.

910
00:20:48,673 --> 00:20:50,443
That's diplomacy working well,

911
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:51,190
the whole

912
00:20:51,562 --> 00:20:53,542
of putting mandelson in is

913
00:20:53,647 --> 00:20:54,487
nonsense.

914
00:20:54,619 --> 00:20:56,029
private eye does, we should say feature

915
00:20:56,236 --> 00:20:57,196
the Epstein files, doesn't

916
00:20:57,196 --> 00:20:57,316
it?

917
00:20:57,316 --> 00:20:57,736
Yes.

918
00:20:58,126 --> 00:20:58,576
Yes.

919
00:20:58,636 --> 00:20:58,996
And

920
00:20:59,026 --> 00:20:59,146
it's

921
00:20:59,146 --> 00:20:59,686
not me on

922
00:20:59,716 --> 00:21:00,076
plane.

923
00:21:01,726 --> 00:21:07,156
it's, a story found by, Robbie
Griffith and Adam, about, a

924
00:21:07,187 --> 00:21:07,577
lawyer.

925
00:21:07,577 --> 00:21:07,787
Tell

926
00:21:07,906 --> 00:21:08,386
about him.

927
00:21:08,386 --> 00:21:08,686
Paul

928
00:21:08,717 --> 00:21:09,197
Tweed?

929
00:21:09,226 --> 00:21:09,556
Yes.

930
00:21:09,556 --> 00:21:09,706
Yeah.

931
00:21:09,706 --> 00:21:10,306
Who's been written back

932
00:21:10,337 --> 00:21:10,697
quite a lot

933
00:21:10,697 --> 00:21:10,757
in

934
00:21:10,757 --> 00:21:10,937
the, are.

935
00:21:11,387 --> 00:21:14,537
He's a, Very keen on his
job, defamation lawyer,

936
00:21:14,537 --> 00:21:14,687
should

937
00:21:14,761 --> 00:21:14,941
say.

938
00:21:14,941 --> 00:21:15,991
Let's describe him that way.

939
00:21:16,021 --> 00:21:16,411
and he

940
00:21:16,459 --> 00:21:16,759
was,

941
00:21:16,877 --> 00:21:17,357
retained by

942
00:21:17,357 --> 00:21:17,678
Epstein

943
00:21:17,719 --> 00:21:18,499
for a while, although

944
00:21:18,571 --> 00:21:18,871
been very

945
00:21:18,887 --> 00:21:19,487
clear, like

946
00:21:19,487 --> 00:21:19,847
many people

947
00:21:19,879 --> 00:21:21,409
just say, say this week,

948
00:21:21,409 --> 00:21:21,679
that,

949
00:21:21,991 --> 00:21:22,561
actually you didn't,

950
00:21:22,879 --> 00:21:23,839
knew nothing about him and

951
00:21:24,001 --> 00:21:24,961
actually, didn't

952
00:21:24,977 --> 00:21:25,697
stay with him for very long.

953
00:21:25,697 --> 00:21:26,027
He wouldn't take

954
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:26,119
his

955
00:21:26,327 --> 00:21:26,567
advice.

956
00:21:26,897 --> 00:21:27,137
so

957
00:21:27,529 --> 00:21:27,739
they,

958
00:21:27,857 --> 00:21:28,817
stopped representing him in,

959
00:21:28,951 --> 00:21:30,301
in, in, in 2011,

960
00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:31,759
after

961
00:21:31,847 --> 00:21:31,967
come

962
00:21:32,071 --> 00:21:32,851
prison for the first time.

963
00:21:33,001 --> 00:21:33,301
But,

964
00:21:33,481 --> 00:21:33,991
yes, he

965
00:21:34,009 --> 00:21:34,639
took great

966
00:21:35,027 --> 00:21:35,297
with,

967
00:21:35,507 --> 00:21:35,627
the

968
00:21:35,627 --> 00:21:36,407
private eye cover

969
00:21:36,407 --> 00:21:38,537
that we were discussing,
the, Beatrice Eugenie.

970
00:21:39,022 --> 00:21:39,562
it was about the

971
00:21:39,562 --> 00:21:41,212
time, the story, first story, first of

972
00:21:41,422 --> 00:21:42,052
many, stories

973
00:21:42,068 --> 00:21:43,388
came out about Fergie taking

974
00:21:43,388 --> 00:21:45,368
money from, Jeffrey Epstein, who

975
00:21:45,368 --> 00:21:45,728
she seems

976
00:21:45,730 --> 00:21:46,900
to have treated as a sort of cash

977
00:21:47,258 --> 00:21:47,828
really, doesn't she?

978
00:21:47,828 --> 00:21:49,868
Whenever she was in trouble,
which of quite often, just said.

979
00:21:50,558 --> 00:21:51,368
Any suggestions

980
00:21:51,368 --> 00:21:52,058
and he would wire

981
00:21:52,202 --> 00:21:52,562
money.

982
00:21:52,622 --> 00:21:52,982
but,

983
00:21:53,170 --> 00:21:55,930
Paul Tweed took great offense
at this cover and, suggested to,

984
00:21:56,078 --> 00:21:56,528
Epstein

985
00:21:56,528 --> 00:21:56,648
that,

986
00:21:57,152 --> 00:21:57,422
it was a

987
00:21:57,458 --> 00:21:58,418
great a front and that legal

988
00:21:58,772 --> 00:21:59,552
should be taken, not

989
00:21:59,558 --> 00:21:59,918
in fact

990
00:21:59,950 --> 00:22:00,820
against us, but against

991
00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:01,690
Sarai Ferguson at

992
00:22:01,742 --> 00:22:02,162
time,

993
00:22:03,068 --> 00:22:03,158
who

994
00:22:03,158 --> 00:22:03,608
he thought was

995
00:22:03,608 --> 00:22:05,798
damaging, Jeffrey Epstein's reputation.

996
00:22:07,238 --> 00:22:07,388
and

997
00:22:07,388 --> 00:22:08,108
then the second

998
00:22:08,108 --> 00:22:08,558
mention

999
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:09,550
was, it

1000
00:22:09,550 --> 00:22:09,880
was

1001
00:22:09,910 --> 00:22:10,720
Peter Mandelson,

1002
00:22:11,145 --> 00:22:11,565
who,

1003
00:22:11,586 --> 00:22:11,916
was

1004
00:22:12,414 --> 00:22:12,834
sending an

1005
00:22:13,266 --> 00:22:16,026
to Jeffrey Epstein saying, I

1006
00:22:16,042 --> 00:22:16,702
think you are going

1007
00:22:16,836 --> 00:22:17,256
need,

1008
00:22:17,766 --> 00:22:17,856
a

1009
00:22:17,902 --> 00:22:18,172
good

1010
00:22:18,172 --> 00:22:19,132
libel lawyer.

1011
00:22:19,459 --> 00:22:19,969
again in

1012
00:22:19,969 --> 00:22:20,839
reference to

1013
00:22:21,124 --> 00:22:21,694
the private

1014
00:22:21,709 --> 00:22:21,799
eye

1015
00:22:21,799 --> 00:22:22,549
cover and

1016
00:22:22,971 --> 00:22:23,721
the story that

1017
00:22:24,124 --> 00:22:25,924
Fergie had herself released.

1018
00:22:26,134 --> 00:22:26,494
So

1019
00:22:26,944 --> 00:22:27,334
there is

1020
00:22:27,334 --> 00:22:27,394
a

1021
00:22:27,394 --> 00:22:28,174
sense in which

1022
00:22:28,174 --> 00:22:28,864
revenge

1023
00:22:29,989 --> 00:22:30,229
is,

1024
00:22:30,229 --> 00:22:31,549
being served as a

1025
00:22:31,579 --> 00:22:32,629
very cold dish

1026
00:22:33,094 --> 00:22:33,814
around here.

1027
00:22:33,994 --> 00:22:34,324
But,

1028
00:22:34,791 --> 00:22:35,331
that's why we

1029
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:35,839
put in the

1030
00:22:36,244 --> 00:22:36,724
joke.

1031
00:22:37,054 --> 00:22:39,334
'
cause you said, you suggested to Epstein

1032
00:22:39,334 --> 00:22:39,454
he

1033
00:22:39,454 --> 00:22:39,844
needed a

1034
00:22:39,844 --> 00:22:40,204
lawyer.

1035
00:22:40,444 --> 00:22:40,744
We

1036
00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:41,299
reckon you are

1037
00:22:41,299 --> 00:22:41,569
gonna

1038
00:22:41,569 --> 00:22:42,109
need a good

1039
00:22:42,109 --> 00:22:42,349
lawyer.

1040
00:22:45,434 --> 00:22:45,764
right.

1041
00:22:45,854 --> 00:22:46,064
We're

1042
00:22:46,212 --> 00:22:46,332
be

1043
00:22:46,332 --> 00:22:47,352
staying with

1044
00:22:47,442 --> 00:22:47,682
this

1045
00:22:48,041 --> 00:22:48,791
because it seems.

1046
00:22:48,881 --> 00:22:49,031
To

1047
00:22:49,031 --> 00:22:50,051
be quite a big one.

1048
00:22:51,824 --> 00:22:52,034
good

1049
00:22:52,421 --> 00:22:52,691
Andy.

1050
00:22:52,766 --> 00:22:52,886
you.

1051
00:22:53,036 --> 00:22:53,076
you.

1052
00:22:53,296 --> 00:22:53,716
That's

1053
00:22:53,894 --> 00:22:54,194
Say that

1054
00:22:54,379 --> 00:22:54,459
again.

1055
00:22:54,676 --> 00:22:54,796
Yeah,

1056
00:22:54,826 --> 00:22:55,436
Promote that

1057
00:22:55,436 --> 00:22:55,636
boy.

1058
00:22:55,661 --> 00:22:55,811
right.

1059
00:22:55,811 --> 00:22:56,261
All right.

1060
00:22:56,801 --> 00:22:57,011
We're

1061
00:22:57,147 --> 00:22:58,871
gonna be staying this story.

1062
00:22:58,974 --> 00:22:59,484
Before

1063
00:22:59,632 --> 00:23:00,082
do that,

1064
00:23:00,114 --> 00:23:00,294
there

1065
00:23:00,442 --> 00:23:00,982
one other

1066
00:23:01,971 --> 00:23:03,112
news story that I

1067
00:23:03,144 --> 00:23:03,384
think we

1068
00:23:03,651 --> 00:23:04,071
cover,

1069
00:23:04,371 --> 00:23:04,641
which

1070
00:23:04,641 --> 00:23:04,701
is

1071
00:23:04,701 --> 00:23:06,171
that this podcast

1072
00:23:06,711 --> 00:23:07,671
proudly

1073
00:23:08,241 --> 00:23:09,171
lost

1074
00:23:09,171 --> 00:23:12,291
in its category at last
week's political awards.

1075
00:23:12,654 --> 00:23:12,804
I

1076
00:23:12,804 --> 00:23:13,044
didn't

1077
00:23:13,311 --> 00:23:13,491
you

1078
00:23:13,491 --> 00:23:14,017
three at the

1079
00:23:14,017 --> 00:23:14,377
event.

1080
00:23:15,441 --> 00:23:15,651
you

1081
00:23:15,654 --> 00:23:15,834
were

1082
00:23:15,834 --> 00:23:16,914
all busy I

1083
00:23:16,927 --> 00:23:17,287
got to go

1084
00:23:17,287 --> 00:23:19,327
and hang out with George Osborne, ed Balls

1085
00:23:19,327 --> 00:23:20,257
and others who

1086
00:23:20,257 --> 00:23:20,497
won

1087
00:23:20,497 --> 00:23:20,935
big,

1088
00:23:20,990 --> 00:23:24,350
I was just gonna say all the people
who knew Manon very well won awards.

1089
00:23:25,562 --> 00:23:26,177
or have you got

1090
00:23:26,206 --> 00:23:27,346
have stayed on a yacht with

1091
00:23:27,379 --> 00:23:27,529
him?

1092
00:23:27,739 --> 00:23:28,009
What's,

1093
00:23:28,009 --> 00:23:28,819
the exact

1094
00:23:29,089 --> 00:23:29,689
criteria?

1095
00:23:29,689 --> 00:23:29,779
there?

1096
00:23:29,882 --> 00:23:32,440
Have just wanna thank the judges
of that, the whole competition

1097
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,400
who did a brilliant job.

1098
00:23:34,063 --> 00:23:34,243
they

1099
00:23:34,243 --> 00:23:34,483
were,

1100
00:23:35,020 --> 00:23:35,860
Alexander,

1101
00:23:36,670 --> 00:23:36,970
Liam

1102
00:23:36,970 --> 00:23:40,180
Conlin, mp Greg appointed mp,
Steve Race, MP Tom Rutland, mp.

1103
00:23:40,420 --> 00:23:40,630
Bar

1104
00:23:40,633 --> 00:23:42,013
Ann Jenkin, de

1105
00:23:42,041 --> 00:23:42,311
Mattson,

1106
00:23:42,838 --> 00:23:43,198
Harry Quilter,

1107
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:43,810
Qui pinner,

1108
00:23:43,810 --> 00:23:46,090
and someone called Lord Ben Houchin,

1109
00:23:48,083 --> 00:23:48,353
Who

1110
00:23:48,353 --> 00:23:48,503
I

1111
00:23:48,503 --> 00:23:48,683
don't

1112
00:23:48,701 --> 00:23:49,361
think we realized

1113
00:23:49,373 --> 00:23:49,493
was

1114
00:23:49,493 --> 00:23:49,643
on

1115
00:23:49,643 --> 00:23:49,703
the

1116
00:23:50,020 --> 00:23:50,470
panel.

1117
00:23:50,650 --> 00:23:50,770
And

1118
00:23:50,770 --> 00:23:50,890
we

1119
00:23:50,890 --> 00:23:51,130
might

1120
00:23:51,143 --> 00:23:51,953
have saved ourselves

1121
00:23:51,953 --> 00:23:52,013
the

1122
00:23:52,013 --> 00:23:52,373
email.

1123
00:23:53,728 --> 00:23:53,948
How

1124
00:23:53,981 --> 00:23:54,101
on

1125
00:23:54,148 --> 00:23:54,308
earth

1126
00:23:54,328 --> 00:23:54,548
did

1127
00:23:54,611 --> 00:23:54,881
not

1128
00:23:54,968 --> 00:23:55,188
win,

1129
00:23:57,210 --> 00:23:57,500
Matt,

1130
00:23:57,563 --> 00:23:58,283
Matt, the producer and I

1131
00:23:58,283 --> 00:23:58,463
just

1132
00:23:58,463 --> 00:23:58,673
looked

1133
00:23:58,673 --> 00:23:59,573
at each other and thought,

1134
00:23:59,603 --> 00:24:00,563
wow, have a

1135
00:24:00,563 --> 00:24:00,803
nice

1136
00:24:00,803 --> 00:24:01,073
meal.

1137
00:24:01,853 --> 00:24:02,033
And we

1138
00:24:02,056 --> 00:24:02,216
did.

1139
00:24:02,545 --> 00:24:02,725
He's

1140
00:24:02,725 --> 00:24:05,605
got no style though, because the cool
thing to do in that situation would be

1141
00:24:05,605 --> 00:24:07,855
to give the award your enemy and a sort

1142
00:24:07,883 --> 00:24:07,973
of

1143
00:24:08,875 --> 00:24:09,625
ha i, have.

1144
00:24:09,865 --> 00:24:11,035
'cause in he's he's

1145
00:24:11,050 --> 00:24:11,650
won, hasn't

1146
00:24:11,650 --> 00:24:11,710
he?

1147
00:24:11,710 --> 00:24:11,800
In

1148
00:24:11,845 --> 00:24:12,115
sense

1149
00:24:12,115 --> 00:24:13,075
of in we're talking

1150
00:24:13,075 --> 00:24:13,285
about

1151
00:24:13,315 --> 00:24:13,885
scandals

1152
00:24:13,885 --> 00:24:14,035
that

1153
00:24:14,095 --> 00:24:14,425
we

1154
00:24:14,545 --> 00:24:15,295
private eye point

1155
00:24:15,295 --> 00:24:17,005
out a lot and no one does anything about,

1156
00:24:18,251 --> 00:24:18,461
he could

1157
00:24:18,625 --> 00:24:20,215
be like, haha, maybe you can

1158
00:24:20,215 --> 00:24:20,485
frame

1159
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:20,680
this

1160
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:20,920
next

1161
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:21,190
to your

1162
00:24:21,580 --> 00:24:21,910
many,

1163
00:24:21,910 --> 00:24:22,180
like,

1164
00:24:22,180 --> 00:24:22,540
reams

1165
00:24:22,540 --> 00:24:22,630
of

1166
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:23,050
coverage

1167
00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:23,200
about

1168
00:24:23,785 --> 00:24:23,935
my

1169
00:24:23,963 --> 00:24:24,533
dealings.

1170
00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:24,960
good

1171
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:25,260
point.

1172
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:26,070
that, that's

1173
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:26,160
an

1174
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:26,340
idea

1175
00:24:26,363 --> 00:24:26,453
for

1176
00:24:26,453 --> 00:24:26,753
you next

1177
00:24:26,753 --> 00:24:26,873
year,

1178
00:24:26,873 --> 00:24:27,113
Ben.

1179
00:24:27,623 --> 00:24:28,223
so anyway,

1180
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:29,400
We should come back to

1181
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,920
the, big winners of the night,
George Osborne and his close

1182
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,210
personal Trump, Peter Mandelson

1183
00:24:33,593 --> 00:24:33,893
and the

1184
00:24:33,893 --> 00:24:34,313
fallout

1185
00:24:34,481 --> 00:24:35,021
that story.

1186
00:24:35,021 --> 00:24:36,071
Are there, is there, are

1187
00:24:36,071 --> 00:24:36,701
there any stories

1188
00:24:36,713 --> 00:24:37,403
that you think

1189
00:24:37,463 --> 00:24:37,673
have

1190
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:39,341
received the prominence they should have?

1191
00:24:39,883 --> 00:24:40,033
that

1192
00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:40,920
out in the last week, which

1193
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:41,010
have

1194
00:24:41,053 --> 00:24:41,353
slightly

1195
00:24:41,353 --> 00:24:41,503
been

1196
00:24:41,503 --> 00:24:41,953
overwhelmed

1197
00:24:41,953 --> 00:24:42,613
by political

1198
00:24:42,926 --> 00:24:43,526
drama

1199
00:24:43,526 --> 00:24:43,886
and

1200
00:24:44,246 --> 00:24:44,426
stuff

1201
00:24:44,426 --> 00:24:44,666
from the

1202
00:24:44,666 --> 00:24:45,146
Epstein files?

1203
00:24:45,146 --> 00:24:45,296
Stuff

1204
00:24:45,296 --> 00:24:45,506
from the

1205
00:24:45,506 --> 00:24:45,866
files,

1206
00:24:45,866 --> 00:24:45,956
yeah.

1207
00:24:45,956 --> 00:24:46,136
Okay.

1208
00:24:46,526 --> 00:24:46,736
this,

1209
00:24:46,736 --> 00:24:47,306
I think is very

1210
00:24:47,620 --> 00:24:48,280
This is a statement from

1211
00:24:48,313 --> 00:24:49,963
the General Osteopathic Council,

1212
00:24:50,156 --> 00:24:50,726
seems to have otherwise

1213
00:24:50,726 --> 00:24:51,536
gone and reported.

1214
00:24:51,940 --> 00:24:52,360
It says, we are

1215
00:24:52,376 --> 00:24:53,066
aware of media

1216
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:53,980
that the husband

1217
00:24:53,996 --> 00:24:54,086
of

1218
00:24:54,250 --> 00:24:54,790
Mandelson,

1219
00:24:54,973 --> 00:24:55,513
Ronaldo

1220
00:24:55,526 --> 00:24:58,526
rdo Avila de Silva, was in receipt of
funds from Jeffrey Epstein to fund an

1221
00:24:59,140 --> 00:24:59,590
course in

1222
00:24:59,636 --> 00:25:01,316
the UK in 2009.

1223
00:25:01,870 --> 00:25:03,340
Ronaldo Avila DeSilva

1224
00:25:03,386 --> 00:25:04,346
did not graduate

1225
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:05,410
osteopathy course and has

1226
00:25:05,426 --> 00:25:06,416
never been registered with

1227
00:25:06,416 --> 00:25:06,746
the General

1228
00:25:07,330 --> 00:25:07,870
Council.

1229
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:08,260
Therefore,

1230
00:25:08,306 --> 00:25:08,996
he's not able

1231
00:25:08,996 --> 00:25:09,086
to

1232
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,270
osteopathy in

1233
00:25:10,286 --> 00:25:10,736
accordance

1234
00:25:10,736 --> 00:25:12,086
with the law within the uk

1235
00:25:12,610 --> 00:25:12,940
if he's

1236
00:25:12,973 --> 00:25:13,363
poised

1237
00:25:13,466 --> 00:25:13,796
his hands

1238
00:25:13,796 --> 00:25:14,516
over your spine at this

1239
00:25:14,516 --> 00:25:15,026
moment.

1240
00:25:15,535 --> 00:25:16,465
Get off that table.

1241
00:25:19,286 --> 00:25:19,406
that

1242
00:25:19,406 --> 00:25:19,856
was one of the

1243
00:25:19,873 --> 00:25:20,563
bizarre details.

1244
00:25:20,563 --> 00:25:22,393
'
cause when it, this was the
point where Del was still

1245
00:25:22,406 --> 00:25:22,706
talking

1246
00:25:22,706 --> 00:25:25,406
to the press and he said, I was just
under the impression that this 10,000

1247
00:25:25,406 --> 00:25:25,856
pounds

1248
00:25:25,933 --> 00:25:26,023
was

1249
00:25:26,036 --> 00:25:28,046
given to his then partner, now husband,

1250
00:25:28,855 --> 00:25:29,065
was a

1251
00:25:29,066 --> 00:25:29,246
a sort

1252
00:25:29,246 --> 00:25:31,706
of bursary and, that Jeffrey was

1253
00:25:31,855 --> 00:25:32,605
a very charitable

1254
00:25:32,636 --> 00:25:33,446
guy who handed out

1255
00:25:33,446 --> 00:25:34,136
these bursaries.

1256
00:25:34,196 --> 00:25:34,256
So

1257
00:25:34,915 --> 00:25:35,605
If you are hunting

1258
00:25:35,636 --> 00:25:36,146
out charitable

1259
00:25:36,445 --> 00:25:37,105
you probably

1260
00:25:37,136 --> 00:25:37,496
don't

1261
00:25:37,735 --> 00:25:39,235
them to people who have recently

1262
00:25:39,235 --> 00:25:40,225
stepped down

1263
00:25:40,465 --> 00:25:40,705
as an

1264
00:25:40,736 --> 00:25:42,296
extremely important cabinet minister and

1265
00:25:42,296 --> 00:25:42,416
have

1266
00:25:42,416 --> 00:25:42,926
quite a bit

1267
00:25:42,926 --> 00:25:42,986
of

1268
00:25:42,986 --> 00:25:43,676
cash already.

1269
00:25:43,723 --> 00:25:43,843
Do you?

1270
00:25:44,143 --> 00:25:44,353
No.

1271
00:25:44,516 --> 00:25:44,906
probably

1272
00:25:44,906 --> 00:25:46,196
some sort of means testing

1273
00:25:46,196 --> 00:25:46,316
that

1274
00:25:46,316 --> 00:25:46,796
goes on.

1275
00:25:47,288 --> 00:25:47,578
look,

1276
00:25:47,665 --> 00:25:47,905
just

1277
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:48,220
loves

1278
00:25:48,220 --> 00:25:48,670
spinal

1279
00:25:48,670 --> 00:25:49,210
realignment.

1280
00:25:49,833 --> 00:25:49,925
A

1281
00:25:50,005 --> 00:25:50,395
A man has

1282
00:25:50,395 --> 00:25:51,025
gotta have a hobby.

1283
00:25:51,613 --> 00:25:51,973
hobby.

1284
00:25:52,450 --> 00:25:55,510
So we're having all this discussion
about K Starer is, former

1285
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:56,680
director of Public prosecutions.

1286
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:57,010
There's

1287
00:25:57,043 --> 00:25:57,553
another

1288
00:25:57,596 --> 00:25:57,866
former

1289
00:25:57,910 --> 00:26:00,100
director for public prosecutions
who I think has got some questions

1290
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:01,420
to answer, which is Ken McDonald.

1291
00:26:01,930 --> 00:26:03,340
So there's a very upsetting case of a

1292
00:26:03,343 --> 00:26:03,913
a Norwegian

1293
00:26:03,913 --> 00:26:04,393
student

1294
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:04,660
back.

1295
00:26:04,660 --> 00:26:08,800
In the two thousands was found raped and
strangled, having left a club and got into

1296
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,080
taxi with the son of a Yemeni billionaire.

1297
00:26:11,260 --> 00:26:14,680
So her name's Martin Vic Magnuson
and his name's Farouk Abdulhak.

1298
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,060
She was found two

1299
00:26:16,106 --> 00:26:16,736
days later,

1300
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,265
in the basement of this, of his
apartment block, by which time he

1301
00:26:21,296 --> 00:26:21,776
had got on a

1302
00:26:22,045 --> 00:26:24,775
to Cairo and then to Yemen
in his father's private

1303
00:26:24,776 --> 00:26:25,076
jet.

1304
00:26:26,143 --> 00:26:28,243
The Met decided there wasn't enough

1305
00:26:28,495 --> 00:26:29,065
to charge.

1306
00:26:29,065 --> 00:26:30,055
Basically, I've been trying

1307
00:26:30,056 --> 00:26:30,356
to get him

1308
00:26:30,655 --> 00:26:34,075
to Britain ever since he confessed
to the BB, C that he said it was

1309
00:26:34,135 --> 00:26:36,895
a sex game gone wrong, which is
a defense that's often used in

1310
00:26:37,285 --> 00:26:38,365
situations like this.

1311
00:26:38,755 --> 00:26:40,375
But there are emails from the

1312
00:26:40,406 --> 00:26:41,516
billionaire father

1313
00:26:41,905 --> 00:26:45,595
to Jeffrey Epstein about a meeting that
he had with Ken McDonald, which says,

1314
00:26:45,595 --> 00:26:49,855
Ken McDonald was paid 20,000 pounds
for, consultancy about how they might

1315
00:26:49,855 --> 00:26:54,055
possibly facilitate the return of this
kid to Britain and make this case.

1316
00:26:54,055 --> 00:26:55,945
It was just a sex game gone wrong.

1317
00:26:56,245 --> 00:26:56,561
Can I

1318
00:26:56,593 --> 00:26:56,603
I

1319
00:26:56,603 --> 00:26:56,758
check

1320
00:26:57,148 --> 00:26:57,658
this

1321
00:26:57,658 --> 00:26:58,798
meeting proposed

1322
00:26:58,918 --> 00:27:00,208
was after McDonald's

1323
00:27:00,221 --> 00:27:00,551
time

1324
00:27:00,730 --> 00:27:01,060
director

1325
00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:01,360
of

1326
00:27:01,390 --> 00:27:02,020
public prosecutions.

1327
00:27:02,365 --> 00:27:02,485
Yeah,

1328
00:27:02,488 --> 00:27:02,548
yeah.

1329
00:27:02,548 --> 00:27:03,778
He's working for matrix chambers

1330
00:27:03,850 --> 00:27:06,520
at this point, so you can find it if
you search for matrix chambers in the

1331
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,480
files, but it was arranged, essentially,
he said, as a lawyer, you end up meeting

1332
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,550
lots of people with, with checkered

1333
00:27:12,550 --> 00:27:13,150
cvs.

1334
00:27:13,753 --> 00:27:13,903
But

1335
00:27:13,915 --> 00:27:16,825
nonetheless, I found this, there's
a reference to the fact that,

1336
00:27:17,185 --> 00:27:19,855
Ken McDonald was helpful advising
him because he'd be dealing with

1337
00:27:19,871 --> 00:27:19,991
the

1338
00:27:20,335 --> 00:27:21,445
D-P-P-I-E.

1339
00:27:21,535 --> 00:27:25,225
They'd be, he'd be brokering the terms
under which this kid would come back

1340
00:27:25,273 --> 00:27:25,813
to Britain

1341
00:27:25,813 --> 00:27:26,833
and and face

1342
00:27:26,833 --> 00:27:27,343
the music.

1343
00:27:27,793 --> 00:27:27,973
And

1344
00:27:28,105 --> 00:27:30,625
just the thing that got to
me about all of this really

1345
00:27:30,641 --> 00:27:31,571
horrible story

1346
00:27:32,095 --> 00:27:33,895
about a poor dead woman.

1347
00:27:34,075 --> 00:27:36,865
who, you, know whatever happened,
she's not, she's never coming back.

1348
00:27:36,865 --> 00:27:38,395
There's a whole life that
would've been lived there.

1349
00:27:38,965 --> 00:27:39,205
And at

1350
00:27:39,253 --> 00:27:39,913
the end of one

1351
00:27:39,955 --> 00:27:43,765
the emails about this back and forth
between the Yemeni Billionaire and

1352
00:27:43,765 --> 00:27:47,785
Epstein, it ends after this discussion
of what, what's gonna happen with how

1353
00:27:47,801 --> 00:27:48,041
was the

1354
00:27:48,073 --> 00:27:48,703
Caribbean?

1355
00:27:49,555 --> 00:27:53,695
And it's like they're having this chit
chat about how, like, how's life on

1356
00:27:53,695 --> 00:27:57,775
your yacht in between the discussion
about the death of this young woman.

1357
00:27:57,985 --> 00:28:02,065
And that to me just really, I think
a lot about that line that f Scott

1358
00:28:02,065 --> 00:28:05,050
Fitzgerald line at the End of Great
Gatsby back, they were careless people.

1359
00:28:05,050 --> 00:28:08,800
They broke people and things and retreated
back into their vast carelessness.

1360
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:09,220
And that

1361
00:28:09,268 --> 00:28:09,658
to me is an

1362
00:28:10,030 --> 00:28:10,240
of it.

1363
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,630
You're discussing somebody, your, son
killed, whether he did that culpably

1364
00:28:13,661 --> 00:28:14,561
or as an accident.

1365
00:28:14,938 --> 00:28:15,718
And you are also just

1366
00:28:16,030 --> 00:28:17,890
catching up with, how's
the holiday going on?

1367
00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:18,700
Was the weather nice?

1368
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:20,830
Did you get any good snorkeling in it?

1369
00:28:20,830 --> 00:28:23,560
Just, it seemed
unbelievably callous to me.

1370
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:26,230
and as I say, Ken, McDonald's
made a statement about it,

1371
00:28:26,261 --> 00:28:26,501
but,

1372
00:28:27,370 --> 00:28:28,900
I just, I don't think that reflects

1373
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:29,080
very

1374
00:28:29,128 --> 00:28:29,278
well

1375
00:28:29,278 --> 00:28:29,398
on

1376
00:28:29,411 --> 00:28:29,951
them, frankly.

1377
00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:31,330
And this

1378
00:28:31,361 --> 00:28:31,931
is just

1379
00:28:31,931 --> 00:28:32,231
one

1380
00:28:32,231 --> 00:28:32,291
of

1381
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:32,560
things

1382
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:33,760
that you've noticed.

1383
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:34,450
The

1384
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:34,840
amount

1385
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,520
of stories in the files

1386
00:28:36,670 --> 00:28:36,850
that

1387
00:28:36,881 --> 00:28:36,941
are

1388
00:28:36,941 --> 00:28:37,421
buried

1389
00:28:37,421 --> 00:28:37,961
underneath

1390
00:28:37,978 --> 00:28:38,038
it.

1391
00:28:38,068 --> 00:28:38,338
cause we

1392
00:28:38,350 --> 00:28:38,530
just

1393
00:28:38,530 --> 00:28:39,370
doing the politics and

1394
00:28:39,370 --> 00:28:39,820
who's up

1395
00:28:40,030 --> 00:28:40,240
and

1396
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:40,480
who's

1397
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,410
down at the moment, it

1398
00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:42,050
is incredible,

1399
00:28:43,045 --> 00:28:43,285
how

1400
00:28:43,285 --> 00:28:43,675
much

1401
00:28:43,675 --> 00:28:43,855
there

1402
00:28:43,873 --> 00:28:44,323
probably

1403
00:28:44,336 --> 00:28:44,546
is

1404
00:28:44,546 --> 00:28:45,266
yet to go

1405
00:28:45,266 --> 00:28:45,506
in

1406
00:28:45,523 --> 00:28:45,763
these

1407
00:28:45,763 --> 00:28:46,243
millions

1408
00:28:46,243 --> 00:28:46,685
of files.

1409
00:28:46,735 --> 00:28:48,835
The thing that's interesting about
these files, whether or not you're

1410
00:28:48,835 --> 00:28:51,085
looking at criminal wrongdoing
in all these cases, and obviously

1411
00:28:51,085 --> 00:28:52,525
you're not in all of them, you

1412
00:28:52,558 --> 00:28:53,098
are looking

1413
00:28:53,305 --> 00:28:56,365
the, he is a really grim insight
into the way that this bit of

1414
00:28:56,398 --> 00:28:56,488
the

1415
00:28:56,488 --> 00:28:57,358
world works,

1416
00:28:57,508 --> 00:28:58,048
essentially.

1417
00:28:58,135 --> 00:28:58,145
Yes.

1418
00:28:58,648 --> 00:28:58,918
it's

1419
00:28:58,918 --> 00:28:59,038
a

1420
00:28:59,188 --> 00:28:59,488
claim

1421
00:28:59,501 --> 00:29:00,641
that was made a lot

1422
00:29:01,465 --> 00:29:02,395
by the MAGA

1423
00:29:02,395 --> 00:29:02,875
movement

1424
00:29:02,875 --> 00:29:03,205
was that

1425
00:29:03,238 --> 00:29:03,718
society

1426
00:29:03,718 --> 00:29:03,868
was

1427
00:29:03,868 --> 00:29:04,078
being

1428
00:29:04,091 --> 00:29:04,751
run by

1429
00:29:04,991 --> 00:29:05,321
elite

1430
00:29:05,338 --> 00:29:06,058
pedophiles.

1431
00:29:06,538 --> 00:29:06,658
It

1432
00:29:06,658 --> 00:29:06,778
now

1433
00:29:07,015 --> 00:29:07,721
look quite so

1434
00:29:07,721 --> 00:29:08,171
absurd,

1435
00:29:08,171 --> 00:29:08,981
unfortunately.

1436
00:29:09,941 --> 00:29:11,321
they thought it was
happening from a pizza parlor

1437
00:29:11,321 --> 00:29:11,411
in

1438
00:29:11,411 --> 00:29:11,861
Washington.

1439
00:29:11,861 --> 00:29:12,011
That's

1440
00:29:12,011 --> 00:29:12,131
where

1441
00:29:12,131 --> 00:29:12,431
they went

1442
00:29:12,448 --> 00:29:12,628
wrong.

1443
00:29:12,783 --> 00:29:13,053
but

1444
00:29:13,053 --> 00:29:13,953
apart from that, they

1445
00:29:13,966 --> 00:29:14,716
were on the money.

1446
00:29:14,776 --> 00:29:14,986
Yeah.

1447
00:29:15,602 --> 00:29:15,752
can

1448
00:29:15,825 --> 00:29:17,145
also say you just find

1449
00:29:17,324 --> 00:29:19,094
things that would've been really helpful.

1450
00:29:19,244 --> 00:29:19,394
To

1451
00:29:19,425 --> 00:29:20,565
know a long time ago.

1452
00:29:20,925 --> 00:29:21,105
in a

1453
00:29:21,494 --> 00:29:25,904
exchange of emails, we find out
that Ghislaine Maxwell, derived

1454
00:29:25,904 --> 00:29:29,924
her enormous wealth This from
some secret trust funds left to

1455
00:29:29,955 --> 00:29:31,245
her by her father.

1456
00:29:31,695 --> 00:29:32,265
Oh, good.

1457
00:29:32,864 --> 00:29:33,164
So

1458
00:29:33,212 --> 00:29:33,692
the public

1459
00:29:33,944 --> 00:29:37,664
in Britain, given because he'd stolen
all the money from the pensioners,

1460
00:29:37,844 --> 00:29:39,674
our money given to bail them out,

1461
00:29:39,902 --> 00:29:40,562
could easily

1462
00:29:40,575 --> 00:29:41,205
have been paid

1463
00:29:41,222 --> 00:29:43,532
by Zla Maxwell outta these secret

1464
00:29:43,814 --> 00:29:45,374
funds that weren't secret

1465
00:29:46,124 --> 00:29:46,694
to her

1466
00:29:46,694 --> 00:29:47,054
friends

1467
00:29:47,102 --> 00:29:47,972
in New York.

1468
00:29:48,644 --> 00:29:51,314
and, everybody is the poorer.

1469
00:29:51,855 --> 00:29:52,065
It was

1470
00:29:52,364 --> 00:29:53,894
it was a hundred million,
I checked a hundred

1471
00:29:53,895 --> 00:29:55,365
million in compensation, was paid by

1472
00:29:55,365 --> 00:29:55,875
the government

1473
00:29:56,114 --> 00:29:57,344
for the 32,000

1474
00:29:57,512 --> 00:29:57,992
former

1475
00:29:58,005 --> 00:29:58,695
mirror staff

1476
00:29:58,815 --> 00:29:59,085
who had

1477
00:29:59,144 --> 00:29:59,594
pensions

1478
00:29:59,595 --> 00:30:00,855
stolen by her dad.

1479
00:30:01,034 --> 00:30:01,274
Whilst

1480
00:30:01,292 --> 00:30:02,042
obviously he was stashing

1481
00:30:02,042 --> 00:30:02,342
this money

1482
00:30:02,355 --> 00:30:02,565
away.

1483
00:30:02,565 --> 00:30:03,465
Her, her

1484
00:30:03,465 --> 00:30:05,055
total net worth in 2013

1485
00:30:05,114 --> 00:30:05,654
apparently estimated

1486
00:30:05,702 --> 00:30:06,482
by JP Morgan.

1487
00:30:06,542 --> 00:30:07,022
It's them again.

1488
00:30:07,035 --> 00:30:07,125
They're

1489
00:30:07,125 --> 00:30:07,305
always

1490
00:30:07,322 --> 00:30:07,502
in, the

1491
00:30:07,635 --> 00:30:09,135
one of the first, 10 million.

1492
00:30:09,495 --> 00:30:09,705
Yeah.

1493
00:30:10,095 --> 00:30:10,395
So

1494
00:30:10,922 --> 00:30:11,102
the

1495
00:30:11,102 --> 00:30:11,882
idea was, I

1496
00:30:11,925 --> 00:30:12,585
think up until

1497
00:30:12,590 --> 00:30:12,910
now, that the.

1498
00:30:12,959 --> 00:30:14,729
that, that that was the

1499
00:30:14,775 --> 00:30:15,255
attraction

1500
00:30:15,345 --> 00:30:16,095
of Epstein for

1501
00:30:16,095 --> 00:30:16,545
her, wasn't it?

1502
00:30:16,545 --> 00:30:16,635
That

1503
00:30:16,635 --> 00:30:16,875
he was

1504
00:30:16,877 --> 00:30:17,357
funding her all

1505
00:30:17,357 --> 00:30:17,537
the way.

1506
00:30:17,537 --> 00:30:17,687
But

1507
00:30:17,865 --> 00:30:18,135
turns

1508
00:30:18,135 --> 00:30:18,315
out

1509
00:30:18,465 --> 00:30:18,735
yes,

1510
00:30:18,737 --> 00:30:18,857
And

1511
00:30:18,857 --> 00:30:18,947
it

1512
00:30:18,947 --> 00:30:19,247
was this

1513
00:30:19,545 --> 00:30:20,055
poor, sad

1514
00:30:20,055 --> 00:30:20,505
family,

1515
00:30:20,505 --> 00:30:20,625
the

1516
00:30:20,625 --> 00:30:21,225
two brothers

1517
00:30:21,284 --> 00:30:23,504
whom obviously took me
to court for contempt of

1518
00:30:23,535 --> 00:30:24,525
court during

1519
00:30:24,525 --> 00:30:24,645
the

1520
00:30:24,647 --> 00:30:25,127
process.

1521
00:30:25,127 --> 00:30:25,277
And

1522
00:30:25,964 --> 00:30:26,054
I

1523
00:30:26,054 --> 00:30:27,644
have no, beef about that.

1524
00:30:27,794 --> 00:30:28,759
But it, for

1525
00:30:29,204 --> 00:30:29,594
younger

1526
00:30:29,594 --> 00:30:31,604
listeners to the podcast, Maxwell

1527
00:30:31,604 --> 00:30:32,834
did Sue privat

1528
00:30:33,014 --> 00:30:33,074
eye.

1529
00:30:33,164 --> 00:30:33,569
Robert

1530
00:30:33,569 --> 00:30:34,214
Maxwell sued

1531
00:30:34,214 --> 00:30:34,664
us on

1532
00:30:34,664 --> 00:30:35,204
the ground

1533
00:30:35,597 --> 00:30:35,837
that

1534
00:30:36,015 --> 00:30:36,255
said

1535
00:30:36,255 --> 00:30:36,405
he

1536
00:30:36,494 --> 00:30:38,324
stealing from his own pension fund.

1537
00:30:39,134 --> 00:30:39,434
and

1538
00:30:39,434 --> 00:30:39,674
then

1539
00:30:39,674 --> 00:30:40,334
he died,

1540
00:30:40,424 --> 00:30:40,634
but

1541
00:30:40,634 --> 00:30:42,254
not before he'd stashed

1542
00:30:42,287 --> 00:30:42,617
enough

1543
00:30:42,617 --> 00:30:43,007
away

1544
00:30:43,277 --> 00:30:43,457
for

1545
00:30:43,457 --> 00:30:43,667
her

1546
00:30:43,667 --> 00:30:44,267
not to have

1547
00:30:44,267 --> 00:30:44,387
to

1548
00:30:44,387 --> 00:30:44,567
live

1549
00:30:44,684 --> 00:30:44,744
the

1550
00:30:44,744 --> 00:30:45,104
world's

1551
00:30:45,104 --> 00:30:45,734
most famous

1552
00:30:45,734 --> 00:30:46,244
Peter file.

1553
00:30:47,325 --> 00:30:47,780
it, it

1554
00:30:48,047 --> 00:30:48,977
is completely,

1555
00:30:49,127 --> 00:30:49,217
yes.

1556
00:30:49,667 --> 00:30:49,907
Just

1557
00:30:49,907 --> 00:30:50,027
as a

1558
00:30:50,235 --> 00:30:50,325
for

1559
00:30:50,325 --> 00:30:50,505
Peter

1560
00:30:50,715 --> 00:30:50,925
Ton, if you

1561
00:30:50,939 --> 00:30:51,119
listening,

1562
00:30:51,119 --> 00:30:51,509
that's how

1563
00:30:51,509 --> 00:30:52,049
you declare

1564
00:30:52,094 --> 00:30:52,604
interest.

1565
00:30:53,237 --> 00:30:53,657
Yeah, That's

1566
00:30:53,745 --> 00:30:59,216
you say what you, there is an online
phrase that, punish the villains is

1567
00:30:59,216 --> 00:31:01,226
actually quite a good electoral mantra.

1568
00:31:01,256 --> 00:31:01,316
You

1569
00:31:02,653 --> 00:31:02,743
it's

1570
00:31:02,743 --> 00:31:02,983
quite a

1571
00:31:02,983 --> 00:31:03,523
powerful saying.

1572
00:31:03,536 --> 00:31:04,556
Let's just, should we punish

1573
00:31:04,556 --> 00:31:05,006
the villains?

1574
00:31:05,006 --> 00:31:05,156
It's

1575
00:31:05,156 --> 00:31:05,186
a

1576
00:31:05,186 --> 00:31:05,846
good idea.

1577
00:31:06,326 --> 00:31:06,716
it doesn't

1578
00:31:06,716 --> 00:31:06,986
seem

1579
00:31:07,061 --> 00:31:07,301
be,

1580
00:31:07,460 --> 00:31:09,994
Dominic Cummings's mantra was fund the NHS

1581
00:31:10,027 --> 00:31:10,297
hang

1582
00:31:10,354 --> 00:31:10,864
Pedos.

1583
00:31:11,224 --> 00:31:13,924
Which also actually probably
in this case would, be go

1584
00:31:13,924 --> 00:31:15,484
extremely popular with people.

1585
00:31:16,024 --> 00:31:18,034
one of the things that's interesting
about the opposition parties

1586
00:31:18,034 --> 00:31:20,284
though, is I think they're quite
keen to have the focus day on

1587
00:31:20,347 --> 00:31:21,127
Mandelson,

1588
00:31:21,574 --> 00:31:22,984
because then it's just pure, purely

1589
00:31:23,017 --> 00:31:23,107
a

1590
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,080
Labour scandal.

1591
00:31:24,364 --> 00:31:24,454
And

1592
00:31:24,487 --> 00:31:24,757
I'm not

1593
00:31:24,770 --> 00:31:25,160
sure it is

1594
00:31:25,654 --> 00:31:26,794
purely a Labour scandal.

1595
00:31:26,794 --> 00:31:30,484
So there's a, an appearance by the Reform
Treasurer and Nick Kante if they're not

1596
00:31:30,487 --> 00:31:31,207
in the files.

1597
00:31:31,657 --> 00:31:32,467
Yes, there is.

1598
00:31:32,857 --> 00:31:33,187
again,

1599
00:31:33,289 --> 00:31:37,519
of these casual references
that, turned up in the files.

1600
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:40,279
And, Nick Kante says that
he and his brother bought

1601
00:31:40,357 --> 00:31:41,167
this building.

1602
00:31:41,420 --> 00:31:41,570
oh, not

1603
00:31:41,588 --> 00:31:42,148
was a, any building,

1604
00:31:42,212 --> 00:31:42,812
we should say.

1605
00:31:42,992 --> 00:31:43,602
No, this is

1606
00:31:43,623 --> 00:31:43,833
one.

1607
00:31:43,833 --> 00:31:44,387
Hyde Park.

1608
00:31:44,643 --> 00:31:44,883
This

1609
00:31:44,883 --> 00:31:44,973
is

1610
00:31:44,973 --> 00:31:45,423
indeed

1611
00:31:45,423 --> 00:31:46,173
one Hyde Park.

1612
00:31:46,173 --> 00:31:46,323
But

1613
00:31:47,012 --> 00:31:47,312
that

1614
00:31:47,312 --> 00:31:48,482
was the subject of a,

1615
00:31:49,232 --> 00:31:49,382
an

1616
00:31:49,382 --> 00:31:49,982
appearance

1617
00:31:49,982 --> 00:31:50,132
in

1618
00:31:50,132 --> 00:31:51,482
court by Nick Kante,

1619
00:31:51,710 --> 00:31:51,890
in

1620
00:31:51,890 --> 00:31:52,100
which

1621
00:31:52,100 --> 00:31:52,220
he

1622
00:31:52,220 --> 00:31:52,520
said

1623
00:31:52,580 --> 00:31:52,880
he

1624
00:31:52,910 --> 00:31:53,540
didn't buy it

1625
00:31:53,807 --> 00:31:53,987
with

1626
00:31:53,987 --> 00:31:54,527
his brother.

1627
00:31:55,067 --> 00:31:55,247
His,

1628
00:31:55,247 --> 00:31:55,487
brother.

1629
00:31:55,487 --> 00:31:55,907
bought it.

1630
00:31:57,020 --> 00:31:57,260
and

1631
00:31:57,363 --> 00:31:57,483
was

1632
00:31:57,483 --> 00:31:58,203
wrong to say

1633
00:31:58,337 --> 00:31:58,547
he'd

1634
00:31:58,547 --> 00:31:59,027
bought it

1635
00:31:59,237 --> 00:31:59,657
'
cause he

1636
00:31:59,747 --> 00:32:00,467
just provided

1637
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:00,920
various

1638
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:01,370
services,

1639
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:01,820
which

1640
00:32:01,820 --> 00:32:01,975
is a bit,

1641
00:32:01,975 --> 00:32:02,175
of all court.

1642
00:32:02,210 --> 00:32:02,240
he

1643
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:02,450
was the

1644
00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:02,900
interior

1645
00:32:03,407 --> 00:32:03,767
wasn't he?

1646
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:04,010
Yeah.

1647
00:32:04,010 --> 00:32:04,070
it

1648
00:32:04,233 --> 00:32:04,413
he Was

1649
00:32:04,413 --> 00:32:04,543
that was

1650
00:32:04,543 --> 00:32:05,193
that and that, that had

1651
00:32:05,387 --> 00:32:07,277
implications for the tax
that they paid or didn't pay.

1652
00:32:07,487 --> 00:32:07,727
It

1653
00:32:07,817 --> 00:32:08,387
did.

1654
00:32:08,472 --> 00:32:08,692
And

1655
00:32:08,958 --> 00:32:08,968
And

1656
00:32:09,980 --> 00:32:10,280
who's

1657
00:32:10,383 --> 00:32:10,803
know

1658
00:32:11,103 --> 00:32:11,433
is,

1659
00:32:11,433 --> 00:32:11,763
this

1660
00:32:11,777 --> 00:32:12,407
email

1661
00:32:12,437 --> 00:32:14,657
in the Epstein files right?

1662
00:32:14,807 --> 00:32:15,017
Or

1663
00:32:15,017 --> 00:32:15,167
is

1664
00:32:15,167 --> 00:32:15,347
what

1665
00:32:15,347 --> 00:32:15,947
he said in

1666
00:32:15,993 --> 00:32:16,923
court under oath?

1667
00:32:17,690 --> 00:32:17,960
don't

1668
00:32:18,093 --> 00:32:18,183
at

1669
00:32:18,183 --> 00:32:18,363
me.

1670
00:32:18,363 --> 00:32:18,993
I have no

1671
00:32:18,993 --> 00:32:19,173
eye

1672
00:32:19,173 --> 00:32:19,323
for

1673
00:32:19,323 --> 00:32:19,833
these things.

1674
00:32:21,810 --> 00:32:21,930
I

1675
00:32:21,930 --> 00:32:22,110
do

1676
00:32:22,110 --> 00:32:22,290
think

1677
00:32:22,303 --> 00:32:22,813
there's a bit of a

1678
00:32:23,052 --> 00:32:23,472
principle

1679
00:32:23,472 --> 00:32:23,562
in

1680
00:32:23,562 --> 00:32:23,892
political

1681
00:32:23,892 --> 00:32:24,223
life that

1682
00:32:24,223 --> 00:32:24,373
when

1683
00:32:24,373 --> 00:32:26,082
Nigel Farage is slightly quiet for

1684
00:32:26,082 --> 00:32:26,412
half

1685
00:32:26,460 --> 00:32:26,730
an hour,

1686
00:32:26,743 --> 00:32:26,863
you

1687
00:32:26,863 --> 00:32:27,163
should look

1688
00:32:27,163 --> 00:32:28,663
extremely carefully at what he's

1689
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:28,890
being

1690
00:32:28,890 --> 00:32:29,190
quiet

1691
00:32:29,502 --> 00:32:30,012
because he has

1692
00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:30,270
been

1693
00:32:30,270 --> 00:32:30,450
a,

1694
00:32:30,673 --> 00:32:31,723
he has made a fair few

1695
00:32:31,723 --> 00:32:32,113
points about

1696
00:32:32,113 --> 00:32:32,263
this,

1697
00:32:32,263 --> 00:32:32,473
but he

1698
00:32:32,473 --> 00:32:32,953
has kept

1699
00:32:32,953 --> 00:32:33,313
a little bit

1700
00:32:33,313 --> 00:32:34,123
quiet because his

1701
00:32:34,453 --> 00:32:34,783
chief

1702
00:32:34,783 --> 00:32:35,053
money

1703
00:32:35,053 --> 00:32:35,413
man

1704
00:32:36,180 --> 00:32:36,300
is

1705
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:36,450
now

1706
00:32:36,463 --> 00:32:36,793
involved

1707
00:32:36,793 --> 00:32:36,853
in

1708
00:32:36,972 --> 00:32:37,122
too.

1709
00:32:37,197 --> 00:32:37,487
Yeah.

1710
00:32:37,530 --> 00:32:37,770
Yeah.

1711
00:32:37,992 --> 00:32:38,202
very

1712
00:32:38,622 --> 00:32:39,852
relatively tangentially.

1713
00:32:39,852 --> 00:32:40,032
But I

1714
00:32:40,032 --> 00:32:40,212
think

1715
00:32:40,212 --> 00:32:40,332
the

1716
00:32:40,332 --> 00:32:40,722
other thing

1717
00:32:40,722 --> 00:32:41,022
for his

1718
00:32:41,022 --> 00:32:41,232
point

1719
00:32:41,232 --> 00:32:41,292
of

1720
00:32:41,292 --> 00:32:41,712
view is that

1721
00:32:41,742 --> 00:32:42,582
Donald Trump

1722
00:32:42,612 --> 00:32:42,972
doesn't

1723
00:32:42,972 --> 00:32:43,212
like

1724
00:32:43,212 --> 00:32:43,272
a

1725
00:32:43,272 --> 00:32:43,452
lot

1726
00:32:43,452 --> 00:32:44,052
of focus

1727
00:32:44,052 --> 00:32:44,502
on this,

1728
00:32:44,502 --> 00:32:44,832
and

1729
00:32:44,892 --> 00:32:45,462
he's very

1730
00:32:45,462 --> 00:32:45,642
keen

1731
00:32:45,642 --> 00:32:45,732
to

1732
00:32:45,732 --> 00:32:46,062
preserve

1733
00:32:46,062 --> 00:32:46,242
that

1734
00:32:46,302 --> 00:32:47,142
relationship too.

1735
00:32:47,152 --> 00:32:47,382
Why, would that

1736
00:32:47,382 --> 00:32:47,442
be?

1737
00:32:47,465 --> 00:32:47,585
be?

1738
00:32:48,685 --> 00:32:48,905
Who

1739
00:32:48,910 --> 00:32:49,050
could

1740
00:32:49,362 --> 00:32:49,962
say the

1741
00:32:49,962 --> 00:32:51,492
author of the quote in New York magazine?

1742
00:32:51,642 --> 00:32:53,562
Jeffrey likes a lot of
women and he likes them

1743
00:32:53,610 --> 00:32:53,790
on the

1744
00:32:54,042 --> 00:32:54,462
side.

1745
00:32:54,702 --> 00:32:55,422
Another person

1746
00:32:55,482 --> 00:32:55,962
who simply

1747
00:32:55,962 --> 00:32:56,202
didn't

1748
00:32:56,202 --> 00:32:56,382
know

1749
00:32:56,382 --> 00:32:56,502
what

1750
00:32:56,517 --> 00:32:56,607
was,

1751
00:32:56,607 --> 00:32:56,757
didn't

1752
00:32:56,940 --> 00:32:57,030
on.

1753
00:32:57,073 --> 00:32:57,223
no

1754
00:32:57,223 --> 00:32:57,463
idea.

1755
00:32:57,688 --> 00:32:57,968
absolutely no idea.

1756
00:32:57,988 --> 00:32:58,208
no

1757
00:32:58,208 --> 00:32:58,368
idea.

1758
00:32:58,368 --> 00:32:58,488
at

1759
00:32:58,488 --> 00:32:58,608
all.

1760
00:33:00,253 --> 00:33:00,343
I

1761
00:33:00,391 --> 00:33:00,631
feel

1762
00:33:00,883 --> 00:33:03,373
than a lot of the correspondence
who into the letters page

1763
00:33:03,373 --> 00:33:04,513
of the eye this week saying

1764
00:33:04,531 --> 00:33:06,841
that cover made me feel sick

1765
00:33:06,883 --> 00:33:07,453
my stomach.

1766
00:33:07,603 --> 00:33:08,983
You redacted the wrong bit

1767
00:33:09,148 --> 00:33:09,298
when you

1768
00:33:09,313 --> 00:33:09,913
when you covered

1769
00:33:10,021 --> 00:33:10,141
up

1770
00:33:10,903 --> 00:33:11,563
Ty's face.

1771
00:33:12,028 --> 00:33:12,388
Yes.

1772
00:33:12,388 --> 00:33:12,628
No.

1773
00:33:12,628 --> 00:33:12,778
And

1774
00:33:12,991 --> 00:33:13,081
a

1775
00:33:13,273 --> 00:33:14,503
of people said it put me off

1776
00:33:14,521 --> 00:33:14,671
my

1777
00:33:15,103 --> 00:33:15,313
Some

1778
00:33:15,418 --> 00:33:17,128
our, less,

1779
00:33:17,166 --> 00:33:17,376
um.

1780
00:33:18,358 --> 00:33:18,718
Busy

1781
00:33:18,958 --> 00:33:19,588
said it put me off

1782
00:33:19,636 --> 00:33:20,146
by lunch.

1783
00:33:21,748 --> 00:33:22,018
But,

1784
00:33:23,008 --> 00:33:23,668
I, think

1785
00:33:23,683 --> 00:33:28,633
we may be near an apology
for that camera Under, So the

1786
00:33:29,098 --> 00:33:29,188
of

1787
00:33:29,193 --> 00:33:29,653
underpants,

1788
00:33:29,808 --> 00:33:31,978
general, that's the only
people to pay consequences,

1789
00:33:32,026 --> 00:33:32,746
is gonna be you and

1790
00:33:32,968 --> 00:33:33,688
Starber isn't.

1791
00:33:33,688 --> 00:33:34,078
funny old

1792
00:33:34,156 --> 00:33:34,276
world,

1793
00:33:34,276 --> 00:33:34,396
isn't

1794
00:33:34,408 --> 00:33:34,468
it?

1795
00:33:34,573 --> 00:33:34,693
it?

1796
00:33:37,852 --> 00:33:38,902
so those are some of the

1797
00:33:38,976 --> 00:33:39,336
side

1798
00:33:39,336 --> 00:33:39,696
cases

1799
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:39,879
that

1800
00:33:40,056 --> 00:33:41,616
received maybe the
attention that they deserve.

1801
00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:43,116
Maybe we

1802
00:33:43,116 --> 00:33:44,466
should now come back to

1803
00:33:44,556 --> 00:33:44,976
the,

1804
00:33:45,726 --> 00:33:45,906
I'm

1805
00:33:45,906 --> 00:33:46,236
afraid

1806
00:33:46,236 --> 00:33:46,806
you said, it's

1807
00:33:46,806 --> 00:33:47,046
all about

1808
00:33:47,046 --> 00:33:47,346
who's up,

1809
00:33:47,346 --> 00:33:47,526
who's

1810
00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:47,739
down.

1811
00:33:47,739 --> 00:33:47,919
But

1812
00:33:47,992 --> 00:33:48,202
does

1813
00:33:48,202 --> 00:33:48,712
have big

1814
00:33:49,042 --> 00:33:49,642
political

1815
00:33:49,647 --> 00:33:49,907
Effects Yeah.

1816
00:33:50,032 --> 00:33:50,856
Effects story.

1817
00:33:51,306 --> 00:33:52,386
there's a huge hunt on it.

1818
00:33:52,386 --> 00:33:53,196
The moment for anyone

1819
00:33:53,196 --> 00:33:54,516
who thought appointing mandelson was

1820
00:33:54,516 --> 00:33:54,576
a

1821
00:33:54,576 --> 00:33:55,162
good idea.

1822
00:33:55,179 --> 00:33:55,299
'
'cause

1823
00:33:55,299 --> 00:33:55,449
they

1824
00:33:55,449 --> 00:33:56,439
mysteriously.

1825
00:33:56,964 --> 00:33:57,174
They've

1826
00:33:57,174 --> 00:33:58,224
all remembered

1827
00:33:58,224 --> 00:33:58,314
that

1828
00:33:58,327 --> 00:33:58,987
actually they thought this

1829
00:33:58,987 --> 00:33:59,167
was a

1830
00:33:59,184 --> 00:33:59,514
terrible

1831
00:33:59,514 --> 00:33:59,784
idea

1832
00:33:59,784 --> 00:34:00,414
all along.

1833
00:34:01,644 --> 00:34:02,184
it's the least

1834
00:34:02,376 --> 00:34:04,326
of which I thought was
David Lamie, who some

1835
00:34:04,566 --> 00:34:05,046
David Lamie

1836
00:34:05,046 --> 00:34:05,196
was

1837
00:34:05,196 --> 00:34:06,216
always against this say

1838
00:34:06,216 --> 00:34:07,656
he sauce close to David Lammie

1839
00:34:07,806 --> 00:34:08,286
the weekend.

1840
00:34:08,521 --> 00:34:08,741
bit.

1841
00:34:08,741 --> 00:34:09,181
That sources

1842
00:34:09,486 --> 00:34:09,696
close

1843
00:34:09,696 --> 00:34:10,296
to David Lammie.

1844
00:34:10,327 --> 00:34:10,477
Got

1845
00:34:10,477 --> 00:34:10,597
that

1846
00:34:10,597 --> 00:34:10,777
out

1847
00:34:10,777 --> 00:34:10,957
there.

1848
00:34:11,064 --> 00:34:11,214
Yeah.

1849
00:34:12,564 --> 00:34:12,744
Took

1850
00:34:12,744 --> 00:34:13,164
the time.

1851
00:34:14,094 --> 00:34:14,454
but if

1852
00:34:14,454 --> 00:34:14,664
this

1853
00:34:14,677 --> 00:34:15,307
does, and

1854
00:34:15,324 --> 00:34:15,534
again,

1855
00:34:15,534 --> 00:34:15,684
we are

1856
00:34:15,727 --> 00:34:17,736
recording this before I probably

1857
00:34:17,814 --> 00:34:18,564
24 hours of

1858
00:34:18,564 --> 00:34:18,774
quite

1859
00:34:18,996 --> 00:34:20,317
on news before you hear it.

1860
00:34:20,334 --> 00:34:20,844
But if

1861
00:34:20,946 --> 00:34:21,276
does

1862
00:34:21,276 --> 00:34:22,206
lead to

1863
00:34:22,481 --> 00:34:23,381
the sense that kt,

1864
00:34:24,307 --> 00:34:25,537
his position is untenable,

1865
00:34:25,807 --> 00:34:26,197
then there are all

1866
00:34:26,197 --> 00:34:26,857
sorts of people

1867
00:34:27,067 --> 00:34:27,637
wondering

1868
00:34:27,637 --> 00:34:27,997
who might

1869
00:34:27,997 --> 00:34:28,447
be next.

1870
00:34:28,524 --> 00:34:28,644
But

1871
00:34:28,644 --> 00:34:29,334
there seem to be all sorts of

1872
00:34:29,334 --> 00:34:29,904
problems with everyone

1873
00:34:30,066 --> 00:34:30,156
as

1874
00:34:30,156 --> 00:34:30,366
well.

1875
00:34:30,438 --> 00:34:33,828
The problem is, so Angela Rainer,
bastion of the soft left now in the

1876
00:34:33,828 --> 00:34:37,338
been on the back benches, which has
given her a lot of time to network,

1877
00:34:37,548 --> 00:34:39,438
has still got the tax investigation.

1878
00:34:39,468 --> 00:34:42,648
her second home, declaration,
hanging over her.

1879
00:34:42,678 --> 00:34:45,888
So, she, that's, that, that
might put a pause on some people.

1880
00:34:46,278 --> 00:34:46,878
Some people

1881
00:34:46,878 --> 00:34:47,088
want

1882
00:34:47,088 --> 00:34:47,208
Ed

1883
00:34:47,238 --> 00:34:47,628
Milliam

1884
00:34:47,628 --> 00:34:47,928
back

1885
00:34:47,928 --> 00:34:48,078
and

1886
00:34:48,078 --> 00:34:48,258
that's

1887
00:34:48,258 --> 00:34:48,588
because

1888
00:34:48,588 --> 00:34:48,678
they

1889
00:34:48,678 --> 00:34:48,798
were

1890
00:34:48,798 --> 00:34:49,638
apparently asleep

1891
00:34:49,848 --> 00:34:51,678
during the period 2010, to

1892
00:34:51,876 --> 00:34:51,936
The

1893
00:34:52,293 --> 00:34:52,533
vote

1894
00:34:52,596 --> 00:34:53,106
loser is

1895
00:34:53,106 --> 00:34:53,406
what we

1896
00:34:53,439 --> 00:34:53,659
Now

1897
00:34:53,839 --> 00:34:55,339
He wa I will say he was right

1898
00:34:55,564 --> 00:34:55,924
on

1899
00:34:55,924 --> 00:34:56,494
Mandelson

1900
00:34:56,496 --> 00:34:56,661
when he

1901
00:34:56,676 --> 00:34:57,246
was asked about

1902
00:34:57,273 --> 00:34:58,023
in 2010.

1903
00:34:58,023 --> 00:34:58,833
He said, I think it's

1904
00:34:58,866 --> 00:34:59,196
important

1905
00:34:59,196 --> 00:34:59,256
to

1906
00:34:59,256 --> 00:34:59,646
preserve the

1907
00:35:00,004 --> 00:35:00,094
of

1908
00:35:00,094 --> 00:35:00,664
dignity in

1909
00:35:01,338 --> 00:35:01,488
And

1910
00:35:01,488 --> 00:35:01,578
I

1911
00:35:01,578 --> 00:35:01,758
think

1912
00:35:01,758 --> 00:35:01,908
that

1913
00:35:01,908 --> 00:35:02,148
was

1914
00:35:02,358 --> 00:35:02,598
okay.

1915
00:35:02,598 --> 00:35:02,688
That

1916
00:35:02,688 --> 00:35:02,808
was

1917
00:35:02,808 --> 00:35:02,868
a

1918
00:35:02,886 --> 00:35:03,156
banger,

1919
00:35:03,244 --> 00:35:03,304
of

1920
00:35:03,304 --> 00:35:03,394
the

1921
00:35:03,394 --> 00:35:04,084
few sensible

1922
00:35:04,534 --> 00:35:04,864
things

1923
00:35:04,864 --> 00:35:05,014
that

1924
00:35:05,014 --> 00:35:05,104
has

1925
00:35:05,106 --> 00:35:05,501
been, said about, I was

1926
00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:05,939
hoping

1927
00:35:05,939 --> 00:35:06,899
he said Dig in

1928
00:35:06,901 --> 00:35:07,501
retirement,

1929
00:35:07,601 --> 00:35:07,821
but

1930
00:35:08,401 --> 00:35:08,621
no.

1931
00:35:08,621 --> 00:35:08,781
that

1932
00:35:09,059 --> 00:35:09,139
been

1933
00:35:09,144 --> 00:35:09,634
an extreme.

1934
00:35:09,936 --> 00:35:10,086
No,

1935
00:35:10,086 --> 00:35:10,176
I

1936
00:35:10,343 --> 00:35:12,743
ed Milliman has had a Renaissance and Ed

1937
00:35:12,743 --> 00:35:13,313
Renaissance,

1938
00:35:13,313 --> 00:35:13,553
if you

1939
00:35:13,553 --> 00:35:14,333
will, in, in

1940
00:35:14,333 --> 00:35:14,783
that climate

1941
00:35:14,783 --> 00:35:15,293
change brief.

1942
00:35:15,293 --> 00:35:15,743
But I,

1943
00:35:15,743 --> 00:35:15,983
don't

1944
00:35:15,983 --> 00:35:16,133
think

1945
00:35:16,133 --> 00:35:16,223
there

1946
00:35:16,223 --> 00:35:16,283
were

1947
00:35:16,283 --> 00:35:16,463
that

1948
00:35:16,463 --> 00:35:16,823
many people

1949
00:35:16,823 --> 00:35:16,883
who

1950
00:35:16,883 --> 00:35:17,153
remember

1951
00:35:17,153 --> 00:35:17,243
his

1952
00:35:17,243 --> 00:35:17,513
time as

1953
00:35:17,513 --> 00:35:17,766
leader of

1954
00:35:17,824 --> 00:35:17,914
the

1955
00:35:17,916 --> 00:35:18,276
Labour

1956
00:35:18,443 --> 00:35:18,623
with

1957
00:35:18,893 --> 00:35:19,343
fond

1958
00:35:19,403 --> 00:35:19,973
affection.

1959
00:35:20,046 --> 00:35:20,166
I don't

1960
00:35:20,259 --> 00:35:20,579
think he does.

1961
00:35:20,723 --> 00:35:20,843
I don't

1962
00:35:20,843 --> 00:35:20,963
think

1963
00:35:20,963 --> 00:35:21,053
he,

1964
00:35:21,053 --> 00:35:21,063
does.

1965
00:35:21,063 --> 00:35:21,073
I

1966
00:35:21,073 --> 00:35:21,203
don't think he worked.

1967
00:35:21,203 --> 00:35:21,893
no, he hated it.

1968
00:35:21,923 --> 00:35:23,633
Yeah, he said everyone was
just kept going on about how

1969
00:35:23,633 --> 00:35:24,023
he'd stabbed

1970
00:35:24,023 --> 00:35:24,773
his brother in the back.

1971
00:35:24,773 --> 00:35:25,283
And the problem

1972
00:35:25,324 --> 00:35:25,414
with

1973
00:35:25,414 --> 00:35:25,774
that was he

1974
00:35:25,953 --> 00:35:26,373
stabbed his

1975
00:35:26,373 --> 00:35:26,553
brother.

1976
00:35:26,616 --> 00:35:26,706
in

1977
00:35:26,764 --> 00:35:26,944
back

1978
00:35:26,944 --> 00:35:27,034
and

1979
00:35:27,034 --> 00:35:27,874
it was entirely fair

1980
00:35:27,874 --> 00:35:27,994
to

1981
00:35:27,994 --> 00:35:28,474
go on about

1982
00:35:28,474 --> 00:35:28,594
it.

1983
00:35:29,046 --> 00:35:29,616
And then,

1984
00:35:29,993 --> 00:35:30,893
we streeting who's

1985
00:35:30,893 --> 00:35:31,073
seen

1986
00:35:31,073 --> 00:35:31,163
as

1987
00:35:31,163 --> 00:35:31,253
the

1988
00:35:31,253 --> 00:35:31,403
kind

1989
00:35:31,403 --> 00:35:31,463
of

1990
00:35:31,463 --> 00:35:31,703
great

1991
00:35:31,703 --> 00:35:32,183
hope of the

1992
00:35:32,303 --> 00:35:32,613
Labour,

1993
00:35:32,963 --> 00:35:33,263
Whatever you

1994
00:35:33,304 --> 00:35:33,904
might call it

1995
00:35:34,011 --> 00:35:34,071
Um,

1996
00:35:34,613 --> 00:35:36,953
is friends, Has long time.

1997
00:35:37,013 --> 00:35:37,253
Been

1998
00:35:37,253 --> 00:35:37,643
friends

1999
00:35:37,846 --> 00:35:38,456
Peter's friends,

2000
00:35:38,846 --> 00:35:39,456
much, much more

2001
00:35:39,708 --> 00:35:39,798
with

2002
00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:40,519
Peter Mandelson than

2003
00:35:40,576 --> 00:35:41,376
Stanmore was ever

2004
00:35:41,388 --> 00:35:41,868
personally,

2005
00:35:41,868 --> 00:35:42,138
didn't they?

2006
00:35:42,228 --> 00:35:42,408
Yeah.

2007
00:35:42,468 --> 00:35:44,988
His partner, Joe Dcy, worked
for Mandelson at one point.

2008
00:35:44,988 --> 00:35:48,828
There was a suggestion in the times that
they were on Mandelson Stag do, which is

2009
00:35:48,828 --> 00:35:50,388
a concept I would like to investigate.

2010
00:35:50,388 --> 00:35:53,088
more At greater length
because I wonder what that

2011
00:35:53,121 --> 00:35:53,871
involved now.

2012
00:35:54,348 --> 00:35:54,858
Sort of heady

2013
00:35:54,858 --> 00:35:58,428
mixture of strippers and
leaking for briefings

2014
00:35:58,909 --> 00:35:59,029
just

2015
00:35:59,568 --> 00:36:00,558
in a limo on the bright

2016
00:36:00,589 --> 00:36:00,679
and

2017
00:36:00,828 --> 00:36:01,038
front,

2018
00:36:01,158 --> 00:36:01,548
stripped him

2019
00:36:01,554 --> 00:36:02,074
Ms. trousers,

2020
00:36:02,178 --> 00:36:02,358
him on the

2021
00:36:02,359 --> 00:36:02,419
on the

2022
00:36:02,443 --> 00:36:02,683
cover of

2023
00:36:02,683 --> 00:36:03,083
private Heart.

2024
00:36:03,883 --> 00:36:04,243
It can Happen

2025
00:36:04,338 --> 00:36:04,848
to anyone.

2026
00:36:05,148 --> 00:36:08,598
So there is, that's the kind
of the holding pattern really

2027
00:36:08,598 --> 00:36:09,918
is that it's not perfect timing

2028
00:36:09,951 --> 00:36:10,341
for any of the

2029
00:36:10,488 --> 00:36:11,388
people to move.

2030
00:36:11,808 --> 00:36:16,008
Andy Burnham obviously denied his
ability to run in the Gorton by election.

2031
00:36:16,008 --> 00:36:16,998
So has at the moment

2032
00:36:16,998 --> 00:36:17,178
no

2033
00:36:17,178 --> 00:36:17,568
route

2034
00:36:18,018 --> 00:36:18,168
to

2035
00:36:18,168 --> 00:36:18,648
be becoming

2036
00:36:18,648 --> 00:36:19,308
Labour leader

2037
00:36:19,368 --> 00:36:19,938
unless he

2038
00:36:19,938 --> 00:36:20,298
could get

2039
00:36:20,508 --> 00:36:21,318
kiss down to very

2040
00:36:21,318 --> 00:36:21,618
quickly

2041
00:36:21,681 --> 00:36:21,801
Eni

2042
00:36:21,801 --> 00:36:22,341
noble him

2043
00:36:22,701 --> 00:36:22,821
and

2044
00:36:22,908 --> 00:36:23,088
it from

2045
00:36:23,088 --> 00:36:23,148
the

2046
00:36:23,148 --> 00:36:23,418
Lords.

2047
00:36:23,418 --> 00:36:24,078
But that's probably

2048
00:36:24,078 --> 00:36:24,258
not

2049
00:36:24,321 --> 00:36:24,501
gonna

2050
00:36:24,501 --> 00:36:24,681
happen.

2051
00:36:24,771 --> 00:36:24,951
there will

2052
00:36:24,951 --> 00:36:25,041
be a

2053
00:36:25,041 --> 00:36:25,281
seat

2054
00:36:25,281 --> 00:36:25,491
going

2055
00:36:25,758 --> 00:36:26,028
will there.

2056
00:36:26,328 --> 00:36:26,628
That's true.

2057
00:36:26,628 --> 00:36:26,868
There's a

2058
00:36:27,048 --> 00:36:27,468
red

2059
00:36:27,513 --> 00:36:27,553
an,

2060
00:36:28,024 --> 00:36:29,194
there's Aman free.

2061
00:36:29,208 --> 00:36:29,538
free.

2062
00:36:29,568 --> 00:36:29,628
uh,

2063
00:36:30,288 --> 00:36:30,558
after

2064
00:36:30,606 --> 00:36:30,906
long, But the

2065
00:36:30,954 --> 00:36:33,019
the end of the vetting will
now take much, much longer.

2066
00:36:33,019 --> 00:36:33,559
'cause they'll have to

2067
00:36:33,559 --> 00:36:34,549
take that much more seriously.

2068
00:36:35,269 --> 00:36:35,419
might be

2069
00:36:35,523 --> 00:36:36,513
difficult to turn around in time.

2070
00:36:36,726 --> 00:36:36,876
Can

2071
00:36:36,919 --> 00:36:37,249
come back to

2072
00:36:37,249 --> 00:36:38,299
my point with we street,

2073
00:36:38,463 --> 00:36:39,033
which I keep

2074
00:36:39,066 --> 00:36:39,306
banging

2075
00:36:39,439 --> 00:36:39,949
back 'cause everyone else

2076
00:36:40,053 --> 00:36:41,433
to figure, forget he's got a majority of

2077
00:36:41,449 --> 00:36:42,829
528

2078
00:36:42,906 --> 00:36:43,086
in

2079
00:36:43,086 --> 00:36:43,446
Elford.

2080
00:36:43,473 --> 00:36:43,533
I

2081
00:36:43,699 --> 00:36:43,819
there's

2082
00:36:43,819 --> 00:36:44,719
a really, strong

2083
00:36:45,183 --> 00:36:45,363
that

2084
00:36:45,576 --> 00:36:46,776
at the next general election he

2085
00:36:46,789 --> 00:36:47,629
will be out.

2086
00:36:48,079 --> 00:36:48,979
What happens

2087
00:36:48,996 --> 00:36:50,046
if you are the leader

2088
00:36:50,059 --> 00:36:51,649
and then the prime minister
and then you lose your seat?

2089
00:36:51,769 --> 00:36:51,949
I know

2090
00:36:51,963 --> 00:36:52,323
never happens.

2091
00:36:52,833 --> 00:36:53,268
you can't be

2092
00:36:53,324 --> 00:36:53,604
be minister.

2093
00:36:53,749 --> 00:36:54,439
the last person

2094
00:36:55,203 --> 00:36:56,673
that got close to happening was, Joe Sw.

2095
00:36:57,156 --> 00:36:57,456
anyone

2096
00:36:57,633 --> 00:36:58,203
her lib

2097
00:36:58,279 --> 00:37:00,873
de leader in the 2017 was this.

2098
00:37:00,873 --> 00:37:01,203
Yeah.

2099
00:37:01,803 --> 00:37:02,313
she went out

2100
00:37:02,359 --> 00:37:02,599
in one

2101
00:37:02,673 --> 00:37:04,083
then back in again in the another.

2102
00:37:04,083 --> 00:37:04,413
Yes.

2103
00:37:04,563 --> 00:37:04,863
Yeah.

2104
00:37:05,223 --> 00:37:05,403
Yeah.

2105
00:37:05,403 --> 00:37:06,123
So she was

2106
00:37:06,229 --> 00:37:07,519
out as leader, you you know

2107
00:37:07,519 --> 00:37:08,149
of that morning.

2108
00:37:09,153 --> 00:37:10,113
if your party has

2109
00:37:10,129 --> 00:37:10,849
got the majority,

2110
00:37:11,013 --> 00:37:11,283
would be

2111
00:37:11,556 --> 00:37:11,766
quite

2112
00:37:12,123 --> 00:37:14,043
at the for Labour but, um, and,

2113
00:37:14,043 --> 00:37:14,053
and,

2114
00:37:14,076 --> 00:37:14,406
your leader

2115
00:37:14,703 --> 00:37:15,213
their seat, then

2116
00:37:15,259 --> 00:37:15,619
you've got a

2117
00:37:15,723 --> 00:37:16,788
of a problem I

2118
00:37:16,836 --> 00:37:17,136
know I'm a

2119
00:37:17,358 --> 00:37:20,328
record on this, but I dunno, there
really are that many safe seats anymore.

2120
00:37:20,358 --> 00:37:21,828
If you look at Joe Sw in being

2121
00:37:21,846 --> 00:37:22,116
a very

2122
00:37:22,218 --> 00:37:26,838
example, that SMP post Indie
referendum, 2015 tidal wave

2123
00:37:26,838 --> 00:37:28,248
of yellow was extraordinary.

2124
00:37:28,818 --> 00:37:31,578
Ti used to be the safest seat,
Goran old seat, safest seat.

2125
00:37:31,578 --> 00:37:31,638
Gordon Brown Old's seat safe seat.

2126
00:37:31,728 --> 00:37:33,168
And that went to SMP.

2127
00:37:33,828 --> 00:37:36,408
just these, the swings
were vast and I think that

2128
00:37:36,441 --> 00:37:36,861
same thing

2129
00:37:36,978 --> 00:37:38,628
happen at the next election here.

2130
00:37:38,628 --> 00:37:39,618
I don't know

2131
00:37:39,649 --> 00:37:41,119
anyone whose seat looks,

2132
00:37:42,291 --> 00:37:42,981
nailed on.

2133
00:37:42,981 --> 00:37:43,956
said Farage.

2134
00:37:44,628 --> 00:37:44,748
I

2135
00:37:46,998 --> 00:37:49,218
the thing is it would be
trending in his direction, right?

2136
00:37:49,218 --> 00:37:49,578
That's the thing.

2137
00:37:49,578 --> 00:37:52,968
Any, maybe I should modify
that and say any Labour MP with

2138
00:37:53,088 --> 00:37:54,858
majority under 20,000 should

2139
00:37:54,873 --> 00:37:54,963
be

2140
00:37:54,963 --> 00:37:55,383
thinking

2141
00:37:55,818 --> 00:37:58,308
should put a bit of a shift in
at the constituency surgery.

2142
00:37:58,758 --> 00:37:59,088
Yeah.

2143
00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:00,379
no holding candidate?

2144
00:38:02,013 --> 00:38:04,683
What there's in the sort of like the
kind of, when they have a Pope and they

2145
00:38:04,683 --> 00:38:07,953
pick a really old one and then they
just go, give us another six months.

2146
00:38:07,953 --> 00:38:08,703
We'll have a think about this.

2147
00:38:09,093 --> 00:38:09,333
You

2148
00:38:09,381 --> 00:38:10,311
can tell that things are

2149
00:38:10,593 --> 00:38:13,893
because there was a very brief moment
of excitement where someone seems to

2150
00:38:13,893 --> 00:38:15,213
have briefed a lot of lobby reporters.

2151
00:38:15,213 --> 00:38:15,993
Maybe it'll be Al

2152
00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:16,579
Carnes.

2153
00:38:16,884 --> 00:38:17,104
Now,

2154
00:38:17,583 --> 00:38:19,023
And I know the first question

2155
00:38:19,023 --> 00:38:19,233
on your

2156
00:38:19,233 --> 00:38:19,473
lips,

2157
00:38:19,506 --> 00:38:21,156
Which who?

2158
00:38:21,224 --> 00:38:21,864
is Al Kanes?

2159
00:38:21,864 --> 00:38:21,874
I

2160
00:38:22,088 --> 00:38:23,743
I think of him very much as Labour's,

2161
00:38:23,763 --> 00:38:24,513
Mel Stride.

2162
00:38:25,173 --> 00:38:25,473
Brilliant.

2163
00:38:25,593 --> 00:38:26,343
He's not Labour's male.

2164
00:38:26,343 --> 00:38:26,583
Stride.

2165
00:38:26,646 --> 00:38:26,766
And

2166
00:38:26,899 --> 00:38:27,169
who's Mel

2167
00:38:27,169 --> 00:38:27,409
Stride?

2168
00:38:27,409 --> 00:38:29,089
Shell Chancellor.

2169
00:38:29,163 --> 00:38:30,003
Cute, Of course.

2170
00:38:30,047 --> 00:38:30,317
But,

2171
00:38:30,350 --> 00:38:30,530
he's

2172
00:38:31,067 --> 00:38:31,547
Spice

2173
00:38:32,938 --> 00:38:33,228
Yeah.

2174
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:37,999
I fear that Al Kas might have had
a similar, had one drink with a

2175
00:38:37,999 --> 00:38:40,849
journalist in which he went, if
the ball came looser in the back

2176
00:38:40,897 --> 00:38:40,957
of

2177
00:38:40,957 --> 00:38:41,467
the scrum.

2178
00:38:41,959 --> 00:38:45,079
And this has become a
very brief, Kanes mania.

2179
00:38:45,319 --> 00:38:45,859
But we'll see.

2180
00:38:45,859 --> 00:38:47,179
Maybe by the time we finish

2181
00:38:47,179 --> 00:38:47,479
recording

2182
00:38:47,479 --> 00:38:47,599
this

2183
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:47,959
podcast,

2184
00:38:47,959 --> 00:38:48,079
he'll

2185
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:48,169
be

2186
00:38:48,215 --> 00:38:48,485
our prime

2187
00:38:48,485 --> 00:38:48,905
minister.

2188
00:38:49,475 --> 00:38:49,595
The

2189
00:38:49,595 --> 00:38:49,895
joke

2190
00:38:49,895 --> 00:38:50,615
will be on me.

2191
00:38:51,741 --> 00:38:54,561
the thing I think will happen is
that the party will snap back like

2192
00:38:54,591 --> 00:38:55,791
very much like Lord Mandelson's

2193
00:38:55,837 --> 00:38:56,077
nickel

2194
00:38:56,841 --> 00:38:59,121
to its, its default state, which is

2195
00:38:59,589 --> 00:39:00,369
soft left.

2196
00:39:00,951 --> 00:39:01,641
So that's where the,

2197
00:39:01,689 --> 00:39:01,959
that's

2198
00:39:02,077 --> 00:39:02,647
the, it is in comfort

2199
00:39:02,647 --> 00:39:03,607
zone stuff.

2200
00:39:03,636 --> 00:39:03,936
Yeah.

2201
00:39:03,936 --> 00:39:05,616
But that's where the,
that's where the gravity of

2202
00:39:05,647 --> 00:39:05,737
the

2203
00:39:06,336 --> 00:39:06,546
is.

2204
00:39:06,876 --> 00:39:11,766
So Shaban Mahmud has put through
immigration reforms that are probably

2205
00:39:11,766 --> 00:39:13,236
broadly popular with the country at large.

2206
00:39:13,416 --> 00:39:13,806
Very

2207
00:39:13,867 --> 00:39:14,647
unpopular with the

2208
00:39:15,216 --> 00:39:16,716
mps, very unpopular with

2209
00:39:16,747 --> 00:39:17,377
the membership.

2210
00:39:17,646 --> 00:39:20,496
The composition of the membership
has changed since 2020.

2211
00:39:20,496 --> 00:39:22,356
'cause quite a lot of them have
left to join the Greens for

2212
00:39:22,356 --> 00:39:24,306
a. start, But it's still in

2213
00:39:24,337 --> 00:39:24,667
where you'd

2214
00:39:25,086 --> 00:39:27,186
to be socially liberal, pro-European.

2215
00:39:27,546 --> 00:39:30,516
So with Street, for example, has
been talking up his pro-European

2216
00:39:30,516 --> 00:39:31,446
credentials because he

2217
00:39:31,477 --> 00:39:33,007
knows, in other respects on

2218
00:39:33,486 --> 00:39:37,506
sort of cultural issues He's more in
the Blair, the hated Blairite Zone.

2219
00:39:37,507 --> 00:39:37,537
Mm.

2220
00:39:37,851 --> 00:39:37,941
Mm-hmm.

2221
00:39:38,736 --> 00:39:41,886
whereas Angela Rainer is, for example,
has extremely strong links with

2222
00:39:41,886 --> 00:39:44,496
trade unions, which are traditionally
a very good thing when one is

2223
00:39:44,706 --> 00:39:46,536
standing for the, Labour leadership.

2224
00:39:46,896 --> 00:39:51,096
But there's, there's sort of something
for all of those involved, this

2225
00:39:51,096 --> 00:39:52,971
is not the ideal time for them to

2226
00:39:53,019 --> 00:39:54,129
move, essentially.

2227
00:39:54,651 --> 00:39:54,831
And

2228
00:39:55,177 --> 00:39:55,417
yeah,

2229
00:39:56,151 --> 00:39:58,971
think that even as late as last
week, the suspicion had been

2230
00:39:58,971 --> 00:40:00,141
that something would happen after

2231
00:40:00,189 --> 00:40:01,449
the May local elections.

2232
00:40:02,541 --> 00:40:03,321
and that's why Anna

2233
00:40:03,321 --> 00:40:03,501
swa.

2234
00:40:04,476 --> 00:40:05,946
has put that distance, because he's

2235
00:40:05,979 --> 00:40:06,429
facing the

2236
00:40:06,457 --> 00:40:07,057
SNP,

2237
00:40:07,089 --> 00:40:07,119
uh,

2238
00:40:08,227 --> 00:40:08,647
in what is

2239
00:40:09,066 --> 00:40:11,136
to be a pretty brutal
battle up in Scotland.

2240
00:40:11,526 --> 00:40:14,211
And he wants to put a bit of distance
from himself in the way that Douglas

2241
00:40:14,211 --> 00:40:17,646
Ross distance himself from the
unpopular Boris Johnson in England.

2242
00:40:18,126 --> 00:40:19,026
that's always been.

2243
00:40:19,326 --> 00:40:21,966
Ever since the Ros actually, to go back
to the Miller Band era about whether

2244
00:40:21,966 --> 00:40:25,446
or not the, mp, the Scottish Labour
leader  the kind of leader of a branch

2245
00:40:25,446 --> 00:40:27,816
office or a fully fledged leader in

2246
00:40:27,849 --> 00:40:28,569
their own right.

2247
00:40:28,806 --> 00:40:29,346
It has been a

2248
00:40:29,347 --> 00:40:30,157
a really difficult

2249
00:40:30,306 --> 00:40:33,846
when the party in power, like
the center, the Westminster

2250
00:40:33,846 --> 00:40:35,316
leader of Labour is unpopular.

2251
00:40:35,586 --> 00:40:37,416
What do you do as the regional leaders?

2252
00:40:37,746 --> 00:40:41,256
And the Welsh Labour will be having
exactly that discussion too, because

2253
00:40:41,256 --> 00:40:45,636
again, they're expecting to lose their
majority in the Senate for the first time.

2254
00:40:46,266 --> 00:40:46,866
ev they

2255
00:40:46,927 --> 00:40:48,097
won't be the biggest party in

2256
00:40:48,099 --> 00:40:48,639
in Wales

2257
00:40:48,966 --> 00:40:50,136
since, for the first time since

2258
00:40:50,199 --> 00:40:50,259
the

2259
00:40:50,287 --> 00:40:50,887
evolution.

2260
00:40:51,216 --> 00:40:53,436
So there's a big incentives for people

2261
00:40:53,469 --> 00:40:55,689
in the regions and Nations to

2262
00:40:55,689 --> 00:40:55,959
kind

2263
00:40:56,346 --> 00:40:59,586
in the same way that there is for
Andy Burnham to say, actually, I'm

2264
00:41:00,489 --> 00:41:01,059
I'm getting off this

2265
00:41:01,357 --> 00:41:01,367
ship.

2266
00:41:02,047 --> 00:41:06,022
And I guess there's big incentives as well
for people nationally who are possible

2267
00:41:06,022 --> 00:41:07,222
contenders for the Prime ministership to

2268
00:41:07,971 --> 00:41:08,661
not want to take

2269
00:41:08,661 --> 00:41:09,441
on when that's gonna be

2270
00:41:09,682 --> 00:41:10,942
your immediate thing is a very difficult

2271
00:41:11,061 --> 00:41:12,081
election up in Manchester

2272
00:41:12,142 --> 00:41:12,802
and then those local

2273
00:41:13,071 --> 00:41:14,031
results, it's kinda yeah, no

2274
00:41:14,124 --> 00:41:14,334
care.

2275
00:41:14,422 --> 00:41:17,572
have those and then that's a much
better point at which to come

2276
00:41:17,811 --> 00:41:17,871
a

2277
00:41:17,874 --> 00:41:18,114
in a very

2278
00:41:18,171 --> 00:41:18,591
cynical

2279
00:41:18,591 --> 00:41:18,711
way,

2280
00:41:18,891 --> 00:41:19,281
Yeah.

2281
00:41:19,286 --> 00:41:22,671
And also the one thing that has
plagued the star administration is the

2282
00:41:22,671 --> 00:41:24,921
perceived and indeed actual lack of

2283
00:41:24,952 --> 00:41:25,042
a

2284
00:41:25,044 --> 00:41:25,584
plan.

2285
00:41:26,241 --> 00:41:26,331
the

2286
00:41:26,364 --> 00:41:27,414
very panicky

2287
00:41:27,801 --> 00:41:28,971
winter fuel allowance.

2288
00:41:29,001 --> 00:41:30,261
Oh no, we're not pit reform.

2289
00:41:30,444 --> 00:41:31,224
Oh no, we're not,

2290
00:41:32,391 --> 00:41:33,501
no, we're not gonna raise taxes.

2291
00:41:33,531 --> 00:41:33,741
Okay.

2292
00:41:33,741 --> 00:41:35,631
We'll get through these
sneaky ones instead.

2293
00:41:35,991 --> 00:41:37,386
That actually, which of the

2294
00:41:38,346 --> 00:41:38,616
other

2295
00:41:38,616 --> 00:41:39,156
candidates

2296
00:41:39,156 --> 00:41:40,446
has got a kind of, have

2297
00:41:40,464 --> 00:41:41,034
they already

2298
00:41:41,166 --> 00:41:43,956
in place a fully formed, do, what
do they think the problems are with

2299
00:41:43,956 --> 00:41:47,196
Britain and how would they solve
them and how would they get the rest

2300
00:41:47,196 --> 00:41:48,366
of the parliamentary Labour party

2301
00:41:48,414 --> 00:41:48,924
to vote for

2302
00:41:49,086 --> 00:41:49,776
solutions?

2303
00:41:50,226 --> 00:41:52,746
That's, Luke Trill does a
lot from more in common.

2304
00:41:52,746 --> 00:41:54,006
He does a lot of focus group polling.

2305
00:41:54,006 --> 00:41:55,506
and He said the emotion he sees now is not

2306
00:41:55,522 --> 00:41:56,812
apathy, but

2307
00:41:56,812 --> 00:41:57,622
nihilism.

2308
00:41:57,846 --> 00:41:59,526
People just think everything
is screwed and they

2309
00:41:59,542 --> 00:41:59,572
doning,

2310
00:41:59,646 --> 00:42:00,666
think anyone can fix it.

2311
00:42:01,026 --> 00:42:05,256
And I think that is also a bit of a, an
inhibition on some of the candidates too.

2312
00:42:05,814 --> 00:42:06,234
And that's

2313
00:42:06,336 --> 00:42:07,506
your initial point is.

2314
00:42:08,136 --> 00:42:10,326
why this scandal may have

2315
00:42:10,884 --> 00:42:11,154
bigger

2316
00:42:11,916 --> 00:42:16,026
than it should have is 'cause people
feel so badly about politicians

2317
00:42:16,314 --> 00:42:16,464
and

2318
00:42:16,627 --> 00:42:17,077
plays

2319
00:42:17,346 --> 00:42:17,976
the narrative.

2320
00:42:18,846 --> 00:42:19,566
look at that.

2321
00:42:19,926 --> 00:42:21,096
It couldn't get worse than that,

2322
00:42:21,144 --> 00:42:21,474
could it?

2323
00:42:21,744 --> 00:42:24,114
What we all believed, is true.

2324
00:42:24,654 --> 00:42:25,164
None of them are

2325
00:42:25,296 --> 00:42:25,596
good.

2326
00:42:25,727 --> 00:42:25,907
Yeah.

2327
00:42:25,907 --> 00:42:27,047
What does Britain's future look

2328
00:42:27,047 --> 00:42:27,167
like?

2329
00:42:27,167 --> 00:42:27,437
I'm off

2330
00:42:27,437 --> 00:42:28,007
to California

2331
00:42:28,172 --> 00:42:28,502
week and

2332
00:42:28,772 --> 00:42:29,012
say

2333
00:42:29,012 --> 00:42:29,282
what you like

2334
00:42:29,282 --> 00:42:29,462
about

2335
00:42:29,780 --> 00:42:30,140
It's good.

2336
00:42:30,197 --> 00:42:30,617
permanent.

2337
00:42:30,662 --> 00:42:30,932
Yeah,

2338
00:42:30,937 --> 00:42:31,137
but

2339
00:42:31,372 --> 00:42:31,722
Which

2340
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:32,555
no, you're

2341
00:42:32,792 --> 00:42:32,912
it

2342
00:42:32,912 --> 00:42:32,972
too.

2343
00:42:32,972 --> 00:42:35,012
It's not always bloody raining.

2344
00:42:35,102 --> 00:42:35,852
And actually

2345
00:42:35,885 --> 00:42:37,445
people are excited about the future.

2346
00:42:38,252 --> 00:42:41,132
there's a sense that things are actually
changing and the world is improving and

2347
00:42:41,132 --> 00:42:46,382
there's a, yes, they're all mad peptides
and, worrying about the antichrist,

2348
00:42:46,592 --> 00:42:48,152
but the least like that's a, that's.

2349
00:42:48,152 --> 00:42:50,072
Quite a classy problem
to have the antichrist.

2350
00:42:50,072 --> 00:42:52,562
Our problem is like chronic
low productivity and a,

2351
00:42:52,802 --> 00:42:54,182
welfare dependency ratio.

2352
00:42:54,182 --> 00:42:55,652
That's, that's

2353
00:42:55,668 --> 00:42:56,358
really troublesome.

2354
00:42:56,762 --> 00:42:57,122
So

2355
00:42:57,152 --> 00:42:57,452
I think

2356
00:42:57,452 --> 00:42:58,562
that's, I

2357
00:42:58,580 --> 00:42:58,820
just

2358
00:42:58,820 --> 00:42:59,090
think there

2359
00:42:59,162 --> 00:42:59,222
a,

2360
00:42:59,702 --> 00:42:59,852
that

2361
00:42:59,852 --> 00:43:00,362
pervasive

2362
00:43:00,362 --> 00:43:00,692
sense

2363
00:43:00,770 --> 00:43:02,330
of doom.

2364
00:43:03,258 --> 00:43:03,408
we've

2365
00:43:03,408 --> 00:43:03,618
reached,

2366
00:43:03,618 --> 00:43:03,708
I

2367
00:43:03,708 --> 00:43:04,098
refuse

2368
00:43:04,098 --> 00:43:04,488
to share,

2369
00:43:05,448 --> 00:43:05,598
we've

2370
00:43:05,598 --> 00:43:05,838
reached

2371
00:43:05,838 --> 00:43:05,928
our

2372
00:43:05,928 --> 00:43:06,738
traditional cheerful

2373
00:43:06,738 --> 00:43:06,978
point

2374
00:43:06,978 --> 00:43:07,068
to

2375
00:43:07,068 --> 00:43:07,548
end on.

2376
00:43:07,548 --> 00:43:07,698
so

2377
00:43:07,698 --> 00:43:07,758
I

2378
00:43:07,758 --> 00:43:08,298
think we should

2379
00:43:08,298 --> 00:43:08,508
wrap

2380
00:43:08,508 --> 00:43:08,598
it

2381
00:43:08,598 --> 00:43:08,868
up there.

2382
00:43:09,078 --> 00:43:09,558
Yeah, sorry.

2383
00:43:10,442 --> 00:43:10,862
it's all right for me.

2384
00:43:10,862 --> 00:43:11,132
I'll be in

2385
00:43:11,132 --> 00:43:11,732
California.

2386
00:43:15,035 --> 00:43:15,245
that's

2387
00:43:15,245 --> 00:43:15,335
it

2388
00:43:15,335 --> 00:43:15,845
for this episode

2389
00:43:15,845 --> 00:43:16,534
of 94.

2390
00:43:16,534 --> 00:43:17,825
Thank you so much for listening.

2391
00:43:17,842 --> 00:43:17,992
We'll

2392
00:43:17,992 --> 00:43:18,352
be back

2393
00:43:18,352 --> 00:43:18,592
again

2394
00:43:18,725 --> 00:43:18,785
a

2395
00:43:18,785 --> 00:43:19,205
fortnight

2396
00:43:19,205 --> 00:43:19,325
with

2397
00:43:19,325 --> 00:43:19,745
another one.

2398
00:43:20,104 --> 00:43:21,124
in the meantime.

2399
00:43:21,455 --> 00:43:23,733
private eye is available on newsstands,

2400
00:43:23,812 --> 00:43:24,142
but

2401
00:43:24,142 --> 00:43:24,292
if

2402
00:43:24,334 --> 00:43:25,355
don't want people to

2403
00:43:25,372 --> 00:43:25,642
see

2404
00:43:25,804 --> 00:43:27,425
carrying around a picture of

2405
00:43:27,442 --> 00:43:28,762
Peter Mandelson in

2406
00:43:28,762 --> 00:43:29,032
his

2407
00:43:29,224 --> 00:43:32,044
fronts, you can get a subscription
which is delivered to you.

2408
00:43:32,044 --> 00:43:32,974
I know, 'cause I've got one

2409
00:43:33,184 --> 00:43:33,364
in

2410
00:43:33,364 --> 00:43:33,424
a

2411
00:43:33,424 --> 00:43:34,099
plain

2412
00:43:34,099 --> 00:43:34,924
envelope.

2413
00:43:35,437 --> 00:43:35,737
Hide

2414
00:43:35,737 --> 00:43:35,977
your

2415
00:43:35,977 --> 00:43:36,367
shame

2416
00:43:38,647 --> 00:43:38,887
for

2417
00:43:39,247 --> 00:43:39,577
very

2418
00:43:39,577 --> 00:43:40,717
reasonable prices.

2419
00:43:40,927 --> 00:43:41,197
Five

2420
00:43:41,497 --> 00:43:41,707
nine

2421
00:43:41,975 --> 00:43:42,995
Co uk.

2422
00:43:43,775 --> 00:43:44,315
all there

2423
00:43:45,844 --> 00:43:47,824
until then, thanks again for listening

2424
00:43:47,887 --> 00:43:48,157
and

2425
00:43:48,157 --> 00:43:49,087
we'll see you next time.

2426
00:43:49,147 --> 00:43:49,297
And

2427
00:43:49,459 --> 00:43:49,609
as

2428
00:43:49,609 --> 00:43:51,859
always, to Matt Hill of
Rethink Audio for producing.

2429
00:43:51,859 --> 00:43:52,159
Bye for

2430
00:43:52,159 --> 00:43:52,369
now.