[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody, JJ Cooper, Ben Badler, another of the baseball America, Prospect podcast, Deep Dives, and today, we are looking at one of the most interesting and one of the deepest farm systems in baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Milwaukee Brewers who have had a very busy offseason, Ben, I feel like you wrote a top 30.

[SPEAKER_01]: and then there's been a lot of movements since then with the top 30 obviously the very significantly the Freddie Parallel to deal.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had the trade that as we were recording this just yesterday with the Red Sox where the brewer seemed to send a bushel of third base types over to the Red Sox and got pitching that then returning Kyle Harrison and Shane Groan in addition to a utility

[SPEAKER_01]: been a busy offseason for a team that I guess is it fair to stay with the Milwaukee Brewers they never really stay and still?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah they're they're not going to go out and sign you know Kyle Tucker or you know the tier or maybe in two tiers below that in free agency.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what what they have done is they built an outstanding farm system and

[SPEAKER_00]: It's tough when you, I don't know, say you have to trade for any feralta, but, you know, those are the moves that in their position that they're in with what, you know, ownership is willing or unwilling.

[SPEAKER_00]: to spend, they make those deals to try to keep themselves, you know, keep the talents sustainable and growing through the future.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they already had one of the best farm systems and baseball.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now they get a whole handful of new toys to come through.

[SPEAKER_00]: And guys do should be able to make an impact right away.

[SPEAKER_00]: This year obviously you're not going to replace the impact that Freddie Perlta has at the top of your rotation.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just it's a strong farm system throughout it's it's deep.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's talent at the upper levels, the lower levels position prospects pictures to it's I mean it checks all the boxes you're really looking to see in an upper tank type farm system.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing they've done is the brewers do a really good job.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like of acquiring kind of semi-free talent.

[SPEAKER_01]: We saw multiple, multiple players they've traded now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Isaac Collins, who had a very good year for them last year, Andrew Man's Monastery out.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're minor league free agents who then, or minor league rule five picks in the case of Collins, who then end up making it to the big, like Anthony Seagler, another minor league free agent who was signed,

[SPEAKER_01]: They, but they keep churning it like I, you said like that they're going to be, you know, there's some of the guys they got back are going to have immediate impacts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, obviously, talk a little bit about jet Williams.

[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing I kind of feel like with these most recent trades, they climb the cleared the decks of a lot of kind of upper level utility player infielder types where you look at them right now and

[SPEAKER_01]: They're a little bit thinner as far as big league experienced infielders right now, you know, you still have joy or tears, you still have rice terrain, gently and probably fits in there somewhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I kind of wonder if this is going to also mean that they're kind of maybe the ETA for some of the guys like a Cooper Pratt or other guys who were, you know, Cooper Pratt was at double A last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel like that there might be another move down the road here?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because I look at third base right now and go, okay, you could slide Ortiz over, but I don't know if you want jet Williams be every day sure stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like there's still one more move to make or there's something coming down the road, maybe to kind of make all this fit together in the long term.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, potentially, um, I think Cooper Pratt is going to start the year in AAA.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the brewers certainly would love for him to have a big offensive year and force his way into the big league picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the, there's any questions, certainly that they have about his defense being ready to play in the big leagues right now, but

[SPEAKER_00]: you know, he didn't light light it up offensively last year either.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's going to need maybe a full season in triple A.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know that he's going to necessarily force his way into into the picture.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, with and with terrain, you do have that flexibility where he's a phenomenal defender at second base.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you wanted to move into shortstop, you could.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Jet Williams is in the opening day, roster picture for them, or forces is that way they're pretty soon.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'm not 100% sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, how if there's another move coming or not, but the brewer certainly, you know, looking beyond 2026 are of some pretty stacked infield options that'll be coming certainly by by 2027.

[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of that, the first question we ask on this every time is how difficult was the decision right that everyone prospect?

[SPEAKER_01]: In the case of Jesus' body, obviously, this was an easy answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus' body is one of the best prospected baseball, but as you were doing the work on this at all, what stood out about modding, what kind of you've covered

[SPEAKER_01]: the international talent kind of procurement for us for years now, what makes money kind of special among the group of elite international prospects?

[SPEAKER_01]: You kind of have moved pretty quickly.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's, he's just an extremely complete hitter, at least as much as you can be when you're 18 years old.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's, he's moved extremely quickly and he's, he said at every level,

[SPEAKER_00]: that he's been at.

[SPEAKER_00]: He hit a low-way.

[SPEAKER_00]: They pushed him aggressively.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even just going to low-way last year, as an 18-year-old was an aggressive assignment.

[SPEAKER_00]: It looked totally comfortable there.

[SPEAKER_00]: He got bumped to high-a and where you saw, you know, Luis Payne, you get promoted with him and we saw some more holes with Payne that were not surprising.

[SPEAKER_00]: My day just continued to rake at a high level.

[SPEAKER_00]: to get to the big leagues at a, you know, probably by 20 years old.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's, you know, he's a switch hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's a good swing from both sides of the plate.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of bat speed.

[SPEAKER_00]: He makes really good swing decisions.

[SPEAKER_00]: He makes ton of contact the adjustability of his swing stands out.

[SPEAKER_00]: He recognizes pitches, so it doesn't matter if it's

[SPEAKER_00]: up down in out fastball, breaking ball, change up, he just has a neck for putting the barrel to the ball and the bat speed is there that the power is there and he's not fully physically mature.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, there's still a pretty lean, teenage hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now there's other tools there too.

[SPEAKER_00]: He can run, he can throw, you know, TBD on some of the defense of stuff, but as an 18-year-old hitter,

[SPEAKER_00]: there's not too much more you can ask for.

[SPEAKER_01]: You just said like TBD on the defense.

[SPEAKER_01]: You just said they're he's a teenager still who's still filling out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Does this feel like this is your sense that this is a long-term shortstop or is this someone who may end up partly just because of straight gains and things like that could it not maybe sliding to a second or third long-term or where do you kind of see him

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it depends on a few things, some of which is just, you know, the same thing for a lot of prospects is just okay, well, who your teammates are going to be by the time you get to the big league.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I do I think he has the tools and the traits to develop into into a major league.

[SPEAKER_00]: shortstop.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's athletic.

[SPEAKER_00]: He runs well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think speed is everything for a shortstop, but he is quick.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is athletic.

[SPEAKER_00]: He does have a strong arm, but it's not, I think, hitting comes extremely naturally to him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say the same thing about defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the things which is just like his internal clock and how dependable he is on some of the routine plays.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think some

[SPEAKER_00]: I also don't think like most 18 year olds you have a lot of time to get better defensive like in his case, I think he's going to be ready to be a major league hitter by the time he's 20 years old.

[SPEAKER_00]: So is he going to be ready by then?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he has to go to third base, if he has to go to second base.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really matter to me, the offensive upside, the offensive profile there is good enough to be a perennial all star at either spots, and then Cooper Pratt is ahead of him in the organization right now, not in terms of the prospect,

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if the offensive game is good enough to be in every day, basically, or he's going to be their shortstop of the future, Cooper Pratt will be, I should say.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then my day, you know, whether it's second base, third base, you know, see how the composition of the brewers and field looks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like a couple of years down the road, but then Cooper Pratt certainly has the inside track to be the brewers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Shortstop even if my day is just a better overall prospect.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will note with that, like this is kind of fits very much with kind of the brewer's approach.

[SPEAKER_01]: You just mentioned Bryce Tarang, who's there's been their studs second base been defensively.

[SPEAKER_01]: Was a shortstop all the way through the miners.

[SPEAKER_01]: Joey Ortiz has played shortstop, he's also played third base for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like there's been a number of guys that they've brought up who are shortstop to then slide around the infield.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do want to ask you mentioned about Pratt, but we's pain, yeah, obviously, we started that year on the same team with mod A, and Meday is basically kind of on a rocket ship of an development path.

[SPEAKER_01]: In another organization, I think that this would be kind of the cornerstone prospect.

[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of you would love to hang your head on as the number one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't it like the guy who has made the strides that he has made already as a prospect?

[SPEAKER_01]: Your professional.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or he'd be the best international signing from a lot of teams, 2024 classes, but like every step of the way he's like, you know, I'm sure he appreciates.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's used my day and I know there are close friends, but it's obviously like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Luis Pena is really, really good, but also just, you know, nobody's quite Hesus my day, unless you're, I guess, Connor Griffin or Kevin McGonagall, but, but yeah, I mean, Luis Pena, you know, he's, he's even faster than Hesus my day, stole a ton of bases.

[SPEAKER_00]: He has outstanding hand-eye coordination.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he very rarely

[SPEAKER_00]: swings and misses.

[SPEAKER_00]: He got a lot stronger this season too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he saw the exit velocities jump.

[SPEAKER_00]: So combination of batable skills with some impact there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously the speed to the two risk factors with him are

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he can hit just about everything or police put the bat to the ball and just about anything, but sometimes too often he's trying to put the bat on the ball on pitches that are outside the strikes down or borderline pitches.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's going to need to tighten up his selectivity.

[SPEAKER_00]: We saw that one out of promoted.

[SPEAKER_00]: uh to high a at the end of the season and you know if he's 18 years old and it's the end of the season maybe he's run down All right, no like real major concerns there, but he is going to have to improve his strike zone judgment and and start swinging at better pitches and then defensively Sure, like there are questions about where it is my day ultimately end of fit fitting with pain yeah

[SPEAKER_00]: it's an even bigger question.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a very slim shot that he ever plays shortstop in the big leagues.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's more of a question of does he stay in the infield or, hey, look, I mean, he's a 70 runner.

[SPEAKER_00]: He go plays potentially center field.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's the brewers.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they are pretty high bar for center field defense and they have a bunch of center fielders at every

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, flexing back and forth between the outfield, the infield, I mean ideally he would improve his defense enough in the infield to stay, you know, whether it's second base, third base, either way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really good and appealing offensive profile with the batsball skills, the damage that he's come into over.

[SPEAKER_00]: the past year and and the speed that he has and certainly has the athleticism to make a adjustments just defensive defense doesn't clearly come quite as naturally to him as the offensive side.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say there's also that there's not the the same kind of flexibility fluidity to him like watching trying to watch a lot of the end this past year.

[SPEAKER_01]: The short stops, the natural short stops are the guys who when they go to the ground, it's like they go to the ground and get back up and it's all this amazing, again, the one example I was gonna point to is think of what Tray Turner looks like when Tray Turner slides into home bay, you know, home play.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, wow, how did he manage to make that look?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he was just doing something naturally.

[SPEAKER_01]: Pain is a guy who when he goes to the ground, getting back up is not a fluid, you know, like just pops back up, there's some effort involved.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit more things just take a little bit more work for him than they're like when we talk about a mod A or a prep.

[SPEAKER_01]: But again, this is the guy who is a really advanced bat with really loud tools who has already impressed any full season ball and a time when most of his contemporaries are kind of hoping this year to get to full season ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: That would be a great development for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of want to go to the next question we have, you know, which is how the system better works than last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's even changed.

[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned Williams.

[SPEAKER_01]: We also should

[SPEAKER_01]: reinforced and added significant reinforcements even since we did the handbook a couple of months ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like where do you kind of put the state of the system right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they have a case to be the best farm system in baseball.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have the Pirates number one and I think they certainly deserve recognition in that spot.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you look at it like

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, like Connor Griffin is just like a special special talent.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the pirates get credit for having Connor Griffin, but like, okay, let's even just set aside Hazel's my day and then set aside Connor Griffin, like two through 30, who has a deeper farm system.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say it's the brewers and the brewers have high end talent too, right obviously we talked about my day.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then Pania and Cooper Pratt and now you're adding chat Williams and Brandon Sprote to Logan Henderson.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's what six top 100 prospects right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're top 10, I think is one of the strongest top 10s in the game.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think top 30, I mean, you get to the back of their top 30.

[SPEAKER_00]: You and I have been here for for a long time at B.A.

[SPEAKER_00]: J.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've we've written some good systems.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've written some very bad farm systems over the years and there's some systems where you get to 30 or you get to 20 or sometimes even before then you're struggling to be like Let me try to find some guys I like whereas in the brewer system you get to

[SPEAKER_00]: get to 30.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's guys I like that I'm still leaving off or just even especially in that 15 to 30 range.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a bunch of guys who has a lot of breakout type guys here who could really make a move up next year, young arms that I like, or guys who are just closer to being ready where, okay, there's maybe there's not huge ultimate upside, but you know, like these guys are

[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that stands out to me is you could look at the middle of this 30 and I'm sure that someone looking at it just looking at the ranking number is going to be like, oh, so Ben, you must really be down on Brady Ebel who is a first ground pick for them or clearly you don't believe that Luke Adams is going to be able to translate this to the big, like Robert Gasser, this guy could be in the rotation for them at some point in 2020, six, how is he so low?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you look because it's the guy's ahead of him and you're like,

[SPEAKER_01]: Someone has to slot behind.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that, yeah, the middle of this, the teams on this list is a list that if you took it picked it up, we just did the Rockies deep dive.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you took the middle of the teams on this brewers list and said, okay, you just put Luke Adams Brady evil and Robert Gasser on the Rockies, I think they're ranking somewhere in the three four five range.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's probably a bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a good way to think of it when, yeah, a lot of times, sometimes I don't know when I'm racking this farm system.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how can this guy be number 14 or this guy and be number 12 or even, you know, how can Josh Adam Chefski be, I think he's number 11 now.

[SPEAKER_00]: That seems way too low, but who am I going to, I don't want to take any of the guys ahead of him down, but yeah, it's just that group in the teens that 11 to 20 group would be better than some teams top 10s.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so, is it reasonable to think?

[SPEAKER_01]: There are a number of these guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: We mentioned just gas or a second ago, but Jet Williams and Brandon Sproke, who right now, four and five, after we've updated.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are they the most likely to make a significant impact in 26 or their other players who could probably fit in that, hey, this guy is big league ready or at least close enough that we're gonna see him significantly this year?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, those, those two guys would be big ones, Logan Henderson, obviously we got to see him toward the tail end of last season.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he got hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think if it, you know, if he had gotten hurt earlier in the season maybe, I think it was healthy enough to come back by the end of it, but I don't think the brewer's wanted just like throw him back into the fire coming off of an injury into the,

[SPEAKER_00]: the posties and mix, but I think we saw, just a lot of strikes really advanced change of the fastball plays above.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's rava lossity.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really have much of a breaking ball that was always a big concern to my own.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's in the world levels, but

[SPEAKER_00]: He's done it now at every level, including in the big leagues in some small sample size, but I expect him to come in and be, you know, if he can stay healthy, which is a big question with him, you know, be a back and starter.

[SPEAKER_00]: And by the end of the year, the bat looked like what we had seen prior to his shoulder injury that required surgery and wiped out, basically his entire 20, 24 season, a lot of the defense looked the same as it did before.

[SPEAKER_00]: except for one part of his game, which was the throwing because before he got hurt, he had a 70 arm.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was one of the best defensive catchers in the minor leagues.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would not have been surprised if Jefferson Carolina went in a gold club one day, based on what we saw prior to his injury, but last season when he came back, not a big surprise because it was a shoulder surgery,

[SPEAKER_00]: But the arm strength just was not there.

[SPEAKER_00]: He really struggled to throw out runners.

[SPEAKER_00]: The pop times were way down.

[SPEAKER_00]: The raw arm strength was way down.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot of times, it was a 40 arms instead of the 70 arm that we had seen before.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe flash of 45 arm at times.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was one of the hardest players to rank, because I feel like he's not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever, it is the ultimate outcome which ever's in Carolina, I feel like he's not ranked in the right place, because either the arm strength doesn't return and if it doesn't, then you go from a guy who was in a lead defensive catcher to a much bigger question mark about if you can count on him to catch it if you want somebody who can control the running aim, whereas if it comes back me, maybe not also the way it was 70 arm,

[SPEAKER_00]: are they believe it 50 sure yeah okay then I feel like this this guys probably should be a top 100 prospect and maybe that happens just getting a little bit further away from surgery but we'll see that's that's the big question mark with him the good thing obviously for the brewers is like hey we don't need Jefferson Carrow to come in like be our everyday catcher

[SPEAKER_00]: right now, but I think he come in, be the backup, get acclimated to the big leagues that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think certainly there's a lot more upside with him than maybe like his organizational prospect ranking might reflect.

[SPEAKER_01]: And again, we just laid out.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a team that has a ton of guys ahead of him who they say a little bit less of a question like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is not a knock-on-quero.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a real actual question that we can't have an answer to right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's, there's a lot of uncertainty to this that is also kind of a fascinating part of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mate is likely, I would say, you just kind of laid it out as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, he's kind of on the Cheerio timetable.

[SPEAKER_01]: If we go Cheerio timetable, that kind of puts him on the opening day roster 2027 seems very unlikely that he is going to graduate though in 26.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he doesn't graduate, I really struggle to imagine someone else becoming their number one prospect for next year, but who would be next up after mod A as far as the guys who are still going to be eligible.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it pain?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, or there's someone else who could kind of climb to that spot that next up behind mod A. Yeah, I think the question for mod A is like,

[SPEAKER_00]: is he going to be the number one prospect in all of baseball next year, not just in the Brewer's farm system, because after him, yeah, I think probably Luis Pena would have to be the strongest candidate, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about all the things to like with him.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're the same age.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's obviously not going to graduate either whereas, you know, Cooper Pratt, Jet Williams,

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if there, if there are some sneaky candidates for somebody you could.

[SPEAKER_00]: maybe be a number one prospect in another organization where Hasey's Monday is not in your farm system.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bishop Letzon, I think, is an interesting one.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to have to stay healthy, but right hand to picture outstanding extension, like elite, like some of the best extension and baseball pitches from this really low, really

[SPEAKER_00]: up to like 96, 97, but you could see there's this physical upside to throw even harder, had success in AA, but you know, very limited sample because he got her last year, but I think he's got a chance to move way up if he can stay healthy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know if that's going to be the case and always, you know, pictures are very volatile, but

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that could be a negative.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could also be volatile on on the way up next year and I think the brewers have certainly shown the ability to to maximize their their young arms.

[SPEAKER_01]: They seem to be pretty good at developing pictures year after year after year after year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Both theirs and then guys like Quinn prester were like they get them in the minute and a half.

[SPEAKER_01]: They get more out of him than the previous multiple organizations had who thought to be pretty good at developing pitching.

[SPEAKER_01]: But speaking of that, the Rocky's deep dive, his use was stuck in the difficult question of who or the Rocky's good at developing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we really kind of, he kind of struggled understandably to come up with a good answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the Brewers, I don't feel like we could ask, what is this organization not good at developing?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because as you noted, they're pretty,

[SPEAKER_01]: If not homegrown all the time, they're either homegrown or kind of low cost deals because this is not a team that's been to ton of money.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a team that is in the playoffs pretty much year in year out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I know someone's going to say, well, when are they going to win a world series?

[SPEAKER_01]: But I'll say this from there.

[SPEAKER_01]: They keep giving themselves chances.

[SPEAKER_01]: They produced, they produced a jackson trio in a Jacob visorowski in recent years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just two of many highlights.

[SPEAKER_01]: They got Andrew Vaughn basically as a low-cost pickup and seemed to somewhat fix him.

[SPEAKER_01]: And again, a minute and a half after he arrived after he had been struggling for years with the white socks.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what is it that kind of stands out?

[SPEAKER_01]: What is kind of the brewer's way?

[SPEAKER_01]: And what is it that they're good at doing as far as their farm system development?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're pretty good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Both in scouting and player development in

[SPEAKER_00]: really all all lanes, all avenues, they're good at developing pitching.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can just see the number of high school pitchers that are in their organization on a late round guys that have, you know, good traits that have ticked up since they drafted those players.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just like a combination of scouting and player development.

[SPEAKER_00]: on that side.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't draft maybe quite as many college arms as some other teams, but then you see like a Tyson Hardin who was, you know, well, like a 12th round pick out a college wasn't very good in college and was very good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Last year, again, another example of like, man, he feels like he's ranked way too low and and maybe he is, but I don't want to move the guys who were ahead of him down anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think just overall in pitching, they do a good job catching, they have a very strong reputation and deservedly so.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I could just interject there, I think that they have done a better job of developing catcher defense in guys like Contreras, obviously being a prime example of this, but it's not just Contreras.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's been over and over when a guy comes into the board of organization, even if he's face defensive questions, often he gets better defensively, which then means you have an offensive catcher who also is good defensively.

[SPEAKER_01]: They've done that on multiple occasions, I feel like over the last 10 years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess the probably the biggest complaint, maybe, that I hear from Brewers fans like, like, we don't have enough power in our line up, right, like, it's a lot of, you know, very contact oriented guys who don't have a ton of juice.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's more, more so than development, sort of the players that they,

[SPEAKER_00]: that they go after, right, that they target.

[SPEAKER_00]: They target guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: And both in the draft and international free agency who make it's on a contact, a good basketball skills, right, they make good swing decisions, they have a good understanding of the strike zone, but maybe aren't like the big present raw power, guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also you do see, so I think there's some limitations for what your power expectations should be on the development side of the coin,

[SPEAKER_00]: was never a big power guy coming up in the minor leagues.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they've managed to squeeze more power out of him.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think it's a developmental weakness necessarily.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that they have.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they do have other guys in the farm system now who have bigger power like a Brock Wilkins or Eric Batonzi, Blake Burke.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those guys who obviously have question marks themselves about position and maybe swing and miss in some cases.

[SPEAKER_00]: But

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think they can, or they have shown that they can get some more power out of guys or just the types of players that they've targeted and that they have a quiet, haven't fit like that big power hitting molded, I know some fans want to see more of other their lineup.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's, I mean, again, there's not a whole lot that they haven't done at least some part of.

[SPEAKER_01]: And power, the other thing I wonder about that is is we've seen that

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a long conversation about that run prevention of often is a way that's a little less expensive to keep guys who could defend than it is big offensive numbers, but I also think if you have that philosophy, it up like you mentioned they're outfield, they're not, this is not a team that's going to put a big thumper who's a 30 defender in left field.

[SPEAKER_01]: you look around the infield.

[SPEAKER_01]: They do the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have shortstop caliber players who could play shortstop for you in the major leagues, often playing second base, shortstop and third base, and they always have good defensive catchers.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that they kind of look at that as trading off sometimes a little bit of power because they're not, they're not willing to sacrifice the defense.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is, I think, helps why they're pitching is so good as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: All of

[SPEAKER_01]: fused together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's again, it's a fascinating organization.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the end of the video portion of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if you are listening on the podcast, stick around, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be talking more about sleepers and all right, just quick break.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're on the video side, just head over to our podcast feed and you can hear much more about this as we go beyond the top 10 as we just already mentioned, a lot of prospects worth watching.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll be back, we'll be back right after

[SPEAKER_01]: We just said, this is a team that you don't, I actually don't even, we didn't even cover everyone in the top 10, but when you look past the top 10, pretty much for one thing, you look past the top 10, and that's where you get their 2025 draft, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there are some interesting players they drafted this year, and they're almost all like, they again, normally your first round picks kind of slot in four, five, six, you know, if you maybe one, two, three, if you drafted at the top,

[SPEAKER_01]: sorting out here and you've got guys who I feel like that there's such a wide range you have a you have a Blake Burke here in Eric Patanti who are kind of like, you know, didn't you have an Andrew Fisher so you got that type, but then you've got like in the Luke Adams and the here you're Brady E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I guess with a trade with the meds ended up squeezing out Josh Adam Chesky from their top 10 and I really liked Josh Adam Chesky, you know, second baseman played a lot of left field in the Arizona fallie.

[SPEAKER_00]: defensively TBD, like, let's start with the good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess with Josh Adam Cheski, which is not on the defensive side.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a really sweet, pure, left-handed swing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's something that's the type of swing you see in a hitting textbook.

[SPEAKER_00]: draw it up, tight turn of the barrel, a lot of adjustability to the swing, stays through the hitting zone for a long time and can drive the ball with some, with some impact to, I think this is a guy who has a chance to end up being a top 100 prospect.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very much an offensive oriented,

[SPEAKER_00]: player and I'd like to see the defense get better enough to the point where he can stay at second base.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we've talked about this whole episode, Brewers of a pretty high bar for defense and especially in the middle and field right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if it ends up staying there.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he ends up being a trade chip, I think he's going to be a very high demand.

[SPEAKER_00]: Trey chip.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think this guy, you know, we saw him hit in a little way.

[SPEAKER_00]: He got hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in the second half of the season, so we didn't see him hit obviously the upper levels, but I don't see anything in what he does.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to prevent him from hitting higher up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you mentioned Andrew Fisher to certainly not a sleeper by any means.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was their first round pay, but obviously a lot to like offensively.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody I think knows that what surprised me was that, hey, this guy was a first baseman At Tennessee, they drafted him and said, no, no, he's he's going to play third base for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: He, you know, he had some third base experience in college, but, you know, usually college first baseman don't end up

[SPEAKER_01]: Even if they talk about it like Spencer Torkos and was like, no, no, no, he's going to be a third basement and then like as soon as he got to the pro balls like, yeah, okay, yeah, that was just saying that, you know, you're a first fisher actually did it that's feels primary at the base when he came out not only did he do it, but I watched every play every ground ball that he took and not like I'm not saying he's going to win a gold glove.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I do, I should think he has a chance to stick at third base.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like the hands are there.

[SPEAKER_00]: The arm strength is there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he moves well side to side.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe like coming in on balls.

[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't look comfortable there, but how many times are you charging in on a ball?

[SPEAKER_00]: first base, so maybe that's just some experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he could, you know, whether it's for the brewers or somewhere else, I think he has a chance to be a legitimate major league third base, and maybe the brewers have more need of first base, so maybe he ends up flipping back over the first base long term, we'll see.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's one guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's somebody who I do actually think is a legitimate chance to stay at the position.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the brewers just

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're going to start by if they just draft more high school players and rounds, you know, 11 to 20 than any other team.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they just have this plethora of like really interesting arms, young pitchers with a lot of traits that you like and one of them that I really like is Ethan Dorchys who, okay, not 11 to 20 is a 10th round pick, but.

[SPEAKER_00]: sign for post 10th round money, basically.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really small, you know, it's like a smaller signing bonus guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was a high school pitcher out of Illinois, and that they drafted in 2024.

[SPEAKER_00]: Six foot six, like 225 pounds, not

[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing like overwhelming right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he, he has feel for a whole bunch of different weapons to attack you with whether it's the fastball that's up to 96.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Brewers can squeeze a little bit more juice out of a tank with him, slider, splitter, cutter in there as well, good control, throws a lot of strikes,

[SPEAKER_00]: really well with good extension, you know, mixes to and foreseemers in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I know he definitely impressed a lot of people in the Arizona complex league last year and then also once he got up to the Carolina League and, you know, he's also just super young for that class so he's 18 years old all of last season.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if I had to like pick a young breakout arm in the

[SPEAKER_01]: you touch on this is something that if you haven't read the piece that Ben wrote, I'll try to link it in the show notes here.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the Ben wrote, you wrote about the brewers kind of taking a little bit of a different approach, draft-wise than other teams.

[SPEAKER_01]: And kind of the payoff that they've had of kind of not treating

[SPEAKER_01]: I say day three now, it's day two, but not treating the 11th through 20th round as the the area to just say, okay, well, that now let's just draft college guys to fill out rosters and all could you give you if someone hasn't read it again, I'm going to link to it, but give people a little bit if you haven't read that like a sneak peek of what stood out to you about how the brewers have done things a little bit differently in the draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so just, you know, as you go through the, you know, as I was writing up the brewers, top 30, you just, you don't have to go too far down the, down the 30 to say, oh, all right, like Bishop Letzon, like interesting, like high school, pitcher 11 thrown pick was like Purdue commit, you know, got like a mod, you know, reasonable like 500,

[SPEAKER_00]: Luke Adams, another mid-western high school pitcher committed to Michigan State, they draft him, late round, smaller to 100,000 or so, bonus.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's like a bunch of guys like that Josh Adam Chesky, you know, similar boat similar example or, you know, Dorothy is kind of the same way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you look at their draft last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just jumped out how many high school pitchers, or a high school pitcher, but just high school players, they took after the 10th round.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, just went and looked at the data over

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, since the draft went to 20 rounds in 2021, you know, how many, how many high school players they drafting in rounds 11 to 20 compared to other teams.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it really wasn't close like the brewers are very aggressively.

[SPEAKER_00]: not just drafting because right because you know, sometimes we'll draft high school players like a late round flyer, like a backup plan, in case some earlier signing doesn't work out and they pivot and they sign a different player.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the brewers are aggressively targeting, drafting and signing high school players way more than any other club in those 11 to 20 rounds in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're, you're seeing it pay off and guys like let's in or add them chef ski or or Luke Adams and look I'm sure most of those guys like of those three probably two of them won't pan out right but they've already created some value there they're they're getting good prospects that way guys like

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like I chained into banowits to like there's just you can see there's other players in their top 30 right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm even just outside the the cusp of their top 30 that are good prospects that they've gotten through that strategy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And okay, I sure like there's some opportunity cost there because you're drafting fewer college players, but you look at the players who were drafted at a college just from all teams.

[SPEAKER_00]: After the 10th rounds since 2021, okay, like you got like a Caleb Durbin, you know, the Brewers didn't draft him, they traded for him, but there's just not that many great college players in those rounds, which makes sense because for the first like 10 rounds, like, obviously like, you know, the high school players still go in the first few rounds, but certainly by like rounds four or five, like, then team just going like college college college, like we got a sign.

[SPEAKER_00]: these guys we can't take you know the risk of not signing high school player and losing bonus pool space there and screwing up our whole draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of even the second and third tier college guys are gone by that point whereas the brewers are saying

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, like, we're not going just through our, you know, our draft board and just taking off the very top high school players.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're, but we're going to take high school players who we do like who we think are signable.

[SPEAKER_00]: So doing a lot of homework, obviously, on that end, see both identify the talent and get the signability.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right on, you know, a Luke Adams or a Josh Adam Cheski or some of these other guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's, I think it's paid off for them in my expectation as we will, maybe to the brewers, Shigrin has seen some other teams drafting some more high school players beyond the tenth round than they otherwise have in previous years this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So last year on your 31 to 40, you had Isaac Collins who ended up, you know, get this is what ranking the brewers and kind of the nightmare that is because the duct they have.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was originally, he was originally tucked into the back of their top 30 and then they made, I don't remember what like all three of their acquisition, they made it not to knock them out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this year, like if someone looks at the 30, they may say, well, what about Coleman Crow, they added the 40.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's also, he's number to think 32 this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And again, this just goes back to this is not, I don't even think like if you read your report on Coleman Crow, you pretty make it pretty clear that this guy could be in the big leagues this year at some point, like he's part of the, I'm sure he will, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the many, many pitching pitchers who will kind of fit in that group of who's the next

[SPEAKER_01]: But this goes back to this is the depth of the system.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that guys like that?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of hard to say like, okay, do you like him or do you like the brisemacogges of the world?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like that there's just the depth of the system is pretty absurd, is it not?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, the back of their top 30 is still really strong.

[SPEAKER_00]: guys outside the top 30 that I like, you know, like you look at, I mean, I'm just looking in their 20s right now, where it's, yeah, whether it's, you know, like a young arms, like a price message and a Josh Knoweth coming back from surgery, Jayden Dupandoitz, another one of those,

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, late round high school arms for them was just got like intriguing projection type traits, handle free and carnoseo and like just not sure ultimally like with the upside is going to be but it's a really nice left-handed swing like hit orish looking guy or like in a like man well rod regas is one of the more fascinating arms to me where.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he just looked at his numbers and his age.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this guy got to double a at the end of the season.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it just turned 20 years old in August.

[SPEAKER_00]: This guy has outstanding command, pitchability.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's moved quickly.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's dominated at every level.

[SPEAKER_00]: He just, you know, maybe every now and then will like scrape a 91, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, is that gonna work higher up?

[SPEAKER_00]: If it stays, you know, as an upper raise fastball, touch a 91, no, but like this guy just turns 20 years old.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think there is some more upside in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: He throws an incredible amount of strikes.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like this really unusual fastball with the ton of spin and some cutting action.

[SPEAKER_00]: to it and he hides the ball really well too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's deception, there's like a quality slider and cutter in there too.

[SPEAKER_00]: So with him, it's just, okay, can he throw harder?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I look, there are obviously exceptions of guys who can make it work, who, you know, top out in the low 90s.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, but

[SPEAKER_00]: The odds are probably not, but sometimes guys can come into more velocity later on and look up until last year, this guy was still a teenager.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, this is a guy who's in the very back of their 30 and has been a dominant picture reaching AA as a 20 year old.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a pretty good sign.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think if that guy's tucked away at the back of your 30.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a fascinating system, but that's true, you know, you've got a good fun system to play with every year here, and one that you know to never write everything in ink at the start of the off season, because as you mentioned, usually there are moves that move guys around, but that is our deep dive look at the Milwaukee Brewers farm system.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're getting there.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are.

[SPEAKER_01]: Rounding, yeah, we're getting at least coming close to third base on our round of around going around the entirety of the major leagues for deep guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: We will keep rolling these out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you Ben for joining us.

[SPEAKER_01]: And thank you by the way for the download.

[SPEAKER_01]: Please like and review your reviews of our podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Help other people find the podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: We appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And check out this and I'll link some of these in the show notes, but so much stuff about this about the top 30, the 31 to 40 prospects and Ben's story about kind of how the Brewers have done things a little bit differently in the draft, all we're checking out over at baseball america.com for Ben.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm JJ so long everybody.