Shelley Alward-MacLeod 0:00
Hello and Welcome to Season Two of within our reach, a podcast all about accessibility, inclusion and leveling the playing field at work and in our community. I'm Shelley Alward MacLeod, and I'm joined by my co host, Blake Hunsley, and our guest today is Jean St-Amand, counselor for district 6,16, 16, which in case you don't know is Bedford Wentworth and a member of the Halifax's accessibility Advisory Committee, which we are going to talk about. What the heck is that? So thanks for joining us, and welcome

Jean St-Amand 0:31
to the show. Thanks for having me.

Blake Hunsley 0:33
So I'd love to hear a little bit about you and your district, because, like Shelley mentioned, I don't know much about Bedford Wentworth. I wish I did, but I'm a Dartmouth kid, sorry. So I'm the other side of the harvest. I'm way out

Jean St-Amand 0:43
in the suburbs, okay, not as far as some of my colleagues, but, you know, we're kind of sandwiched in in between. It's funny because it it feels so connected to HRM in a way that it didn't. When I was a kid, there was always, you know, from Bedford into Halifax. There was always this span where there weren't all that many houses and businesses that's filled in over the years, it sure has, So, you know, the sprawl is a real thing. So my district specifically goes from rough, it's not, it doesn't quite reach Kearney Lake Road, but it's a little bit further over than Larry UTech. So there's a bit of a green patch in between those two streets going all the way up to the 102, and that is where the Wentworth name comes from. Incidentally, the it's a family name of an individual from a very long time ago that donated the land upon which that little Rotunda is built. Down on the Oh, interesting on the waterfront. And so that that name was, I believe, anyway, I'm imagining what the decision was that was affixed to Bedford as the name of the district, in part because people that live in that area don't think of themselves, traditionally, as living in Bedford. And so the idea of just labeling the district Bedford didn't seem right, and so they gave it a hyphenated name, much like they do with so many other districts. That's actually made up of a bunch of different communities. And that's, that's the border that's closest to the city, but then it goes all the way around, over to Duke Street, where the Walmart is in Bedford. So it's a very large district. We are the most populated district

Blake Hunsley 2:21
in and growing fast, like the entire rest of the city.

Jean St-Amand 2:25
Quite, Yeah, yeah, it's hard to pick who's growing at a faster rate, because, honestly, there's so much development happening everywhere, everywhere. You know, Spryfield is expanding very quickly. So is the Dartmouth side. So is Sackville. So we're nobody's in a race to become the biggest, but we're all trying to grow in a really sensible way and in a way that allows our residents to feel included in what's happening. Now. How long have you been representing the district? Now, just

Blake Hunsley 2:52
barely over a year. Okay, great, so relatively new, that's good. We're getting fresh perspective. I'm one

Jean St-Amand 2:56
of the rookies. I don't think I can call myself that anymore, because I've at least gotten through the first year and gotten some of the jitters out and reached out to staff about every question that residents have brought to me. They're helping inform the education that I get into how the processes are inside the municipality, because it's, it's very much, you know, try to put the fires out as they come up, and so residents will wind up bringing your attention to the things that are most important to them, and therefore you go off and research it, talk to staff, and then come back with answers Exactly. Well.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 3:29
Thank you for your service to being a counselor, stepping up to politics. It's not a not an easy, not an easy job, challenging gig, exactly. And you know, we need more people to step up to do this type of work. So that's great. So tell us about the you sit on the accessibility advisory committee. So tell us about that committee.

Jean St-Amand 3:52
Well, basically its role is right there in the name we're an advisory committee. So we, we through the executive standing committee provide advice and direction to the municipality on issues related to accessibility so we don't enact changes directly, we can make recommendations, and then other levels of council wind up taking that information away and deciding what to do with it.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 4:19
And are there specific mandates for that committee? Yeah.

Jean St-Amand 4:23
I mean, it's very focused on the elements of accessibility that you would think of traditionally. So, you know, the easy example would be, you know, I've received quite a number of phone calls and emails over the last little while after our first couple of snow storms. And so, you know, if there's an issue around snow plowing in and around sidewalks, whether it's in and around the transit stations, like all of these things wind up being the focus of what the accessibility team talks about. And so, you know, we part of our charter for the accessibility committee. Committee is that we hold a town hall every year, so we just did one in October, and that was an opportunity to bring residents together to voice their concerns in a little bit of a larger format. But we receive feedback from residents on a regular basis, and so anything that is accessibility related in any way, shape or form, winds up being passed along to the accessibility committee at least as information to help inform some of the discussions that we have, and there are specific things that will wind up being brought up. So, you know, a lot of it has to do with the some of the commitments that have been made by council, generally. So there is an accessibility strategy that was adopted back in January of 2025 okay with and that runs from 2025 through to 2028 and those are all the considerations that council as a whole and municipal staff are meant to keep in mind as we move forward. So a lot of it speaks to what the emphasis will be in municipal planning, and relate back to how we make sure that accessibility is top of mind when we're making decisions as a council.

Blake Hunsley 6:05
I'd love to hear a little more about this strategy and what sort of goals the city has for 2028

Jean St-Amand 6:10
It's broken down into a few categories. I'm going to flub the names, but they certainly have one related to transportation. They have one related to service delivery. Specifically, there's one relating to communications, and there's a fourth, and it's going to escape me. If I had it in front of me, I'd know for sure. But the end, there are a variety of outcomes that are sought in the recommendations from this strategy. So the strategy was actually or developed over the course of a couple of years of research that was done both in person and online surveys by staff reaching out to the community to find out what are all the things that need to be incorporated into a strategy to help serve as a guiding document for how the municipality treats accessibility and how it prioritizes it. I mean, we have to recognize that we're in a city that's, you know, it's a little older. We have some facilities that are new, some facilities that are decidedly not and so there are challenges in implementing accessibility standards, at least modern accessibility standards in buildings that are a little bit older. So among the recommendations was to do an audit of 100 or so municipal facilities and identify the areas that could be improved upon, and prioritize how to change accessibility standards in those environments and not blow up the budget, which is always a consideration, because especially now, construction costs are considerably higher than they once were, and standards have evolved over time, and so sometimes those standards are really easy to implement when you're building from scratch, and much more difficult to shoehorn in after the fact.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 7:48
Well, absolutely, it's one of the things that, you know, we've been talking about for, you know, quite a number of years here at ReachAbility, especially with the heightened emphasis on, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion, I've, you know, really been focusing with my clients, and then again, here at reachability on the inclusion piece, because we're talking about accessibility from an inclusion if, regardless of your cultural background, if you can't actually access something like, if I can't actually get into the library right, right? Then it's not going to matter what my skin color, what my, you know, religion is, I really simply have no access to that. And, you know, here in Halifax, here in Nova Scotia, we, you know, we have a lot of old buildings and structurally, I think that is right. Like trying to in some of the buildings, it would be easier to probably level it to the ground than to try to put an elevator in.

Jean St-Amand 8:54
In some cases, yeah, we hope not to be in that specific right choice. But yeah, that's one of the challenges. I mean, removing barriers is really, I think, the focus of a lot of the discussions that we have as an accessibility group. And so some of it is identifying standards to which municipal facilities will be held going forward. So, you know, we have capital projects that are underway, and so, you know, major construction projects like the Cogswell exchange, accessibility was a key component of how that particular project was undertaken. So those are all things that help inform projects going forward. It's the more challenging aspect of it is looking at facilities that already exist, and how do we address accessibility that was not addressed at the time that these particular facilities were crafted? And you know, in some cases, it will take a very long time, because in most cases, what we try to do is wait until some form of renovation is called for so that it can be all kind of built into the same project, rather than treat accessibility as its own project. There are exceptions. I mean, there are certainly bus stops that have been renovated specifically because it was identified as a key choke point for people. And there were, there was enough of a use case to justify accelerating making a change, right, But we can't do that in every instance, so we're trying to be as responsible as possible, and staff is doing a very good job of identifying the specific areas that will provide the best bang for our buck and serve the most people. Right, exactly.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 10:35
So backing up a little bit the accessibility Advisory Committee, I keep wanting to make sure I get that correct. If you're gonna sit on the committee, might as well give it the right title. So what led you to join this committee?

Jean St-Amand 10:48
I mean it was, it was just an area of interest of mine. You know, I've got family members that have some mobility issues. My mom has a bad hip, and so she has a hard time getting around, and so accessibility is just top of mind under those circumstances. But I've also been a crossfit coach for a long time, and I've got athletes that I've worked with that are in wheelchairs or have other physical disabilities, and that's outside of other forms of disability that are recognized by the accessibility Advisory Committee as priorities as well, whether it's visual impairment or sensory challenges, everyone should have a degree of access and inclusion and have that as part of municipal priorities. So I just saw it as something that I thought I could have some really good conversations with the people that were part of that committee. And it's a committee that's made up principally of community members. We have some representation from staff. There are three councilors that are part of the committee, but we're not allowed to be the chairperson or vice chair. It's meant to be community led, because it's meant to be a reflection of community interest and community priority. And so we've, we've got a chair and a vice chair that get elected every year. And so we've gone through. There was a chair when I first joined that was already in place because the committee was was struck very early, and then we wound up changing over, and just recently, got a new chair and new vice chair. And so, you know, the process of having all of these discussions largely led by community members, each of which have completely different perspectives, because they too, have different and very representative challenges. The intention is for up to six of the community members to themselves represent, or at least have a a form of disability that would be represented. And so we wind up getting a lot of different perspectives because of that, and it leads to some really interesting conversations with the team as a result.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 12:52
Yeah, go ahead. No, no, it's just gonna say, I'm curious from these

Blake Hunsley 12:55
different perspectives that you're hearing. I love that. It is kind of citizen led as well. What has surprised you most that you've learned from these folks since joining the committee, or is there anything that's really been a surprise, or was it more challenges that you kind of see around in your district on the day to day?

Jean St-Amand 13:09
Well, in some cases, it's a reflection of what I see in my district, although my district isn't necessarily representative of everybody's experience either. I mean, we're a suburban district, so everyone, for example, you know, being in a suburban district, we're more carbound than than folks that are downtown, but less so than folks that are in rural districts. So we're a bit of a blend of both audiences. Potentially, we have far less bus service in the suburban areas than downtown does. Again, we have more than the rural districts do. So it's, you know, being that, being the middle of the sandwich, kind of an interesting thing. But one of the things that I continue to hear is, there are, there continue to be some challenges in accessing certain municipal services, but the municipalities made some great inroads in being able to expand the services and its capacity to deliver service to those that have some form of disability. So 311, has some real time translation that occurs. So there are multilingual opportunities that we didn't have previously they're working on. They do have a the ability to service people by email, which, of course, depending on what the particular deficit is that the person has, they can use voice to text in order to submit that information. So there are technology is providing some conduits for improving service in that regard, but there's always more that we can do. And so, you know, one of the things that the town hall helped reveal is just where are those gaps? Yeah, you know, I think we intuitively knew where those gaps were because we've identified them over time. Anyway, the municipality has been working on this for some time, but hearing from people about what their specific experiences. Have been really helps kind of sharpen the edge a little bit and allow us to direct resources where they need to be.

Blake Hunsley 15:06
Tova. And actually were at, Tova, our boss here at reachability, we were at the town hall. I was particularly impressed by the 311 response, yeah, because they really had made a lot of really tangible improvements. It sounded like, I think part of that is that the technology is right at the right time, that there are some problems that have been going on for a long time. There's for a long time, they're suddenly able to fix. I don't know how that will apply to people like the excessive bus sort of problems, which have always been, I hate to say that they've sounded the same for the last 15 years sort of thing. I don't think it's as easy. There's not new tech coming along that can solve things quite as

Jean St-Amand 15:37
Well to some extent. I mean, they did identify I breezed over the accessibility strategy document again this morning, just to bone up on the hot topics. And, you know, some form of online scheduling for access a bus was identified as one of the outcomes sought. Okay, I know that there has been some progress in evaluating more so identifying needs versus identifying a specific player in the market to deliver on that. Because I think you know, knowing what specific set of services that you need and and the feature set that would be valuable to the audience that you're serving is important before you even go out looking. So I think that effort is well underway, but you're right, like some of those services are very challenging to deliver, and technology won't be the singular way to address a gap that we have, but it will move the needle quite a bit for at least a portion of the audience. It'll never work for everybody. You know, we recognize that, but I think if, if the priority is treated with the kind of respect that I think it is, then we will be able to make some inroads on that front.

Blake Hunsley 16:56
Well, that respect is something I'm curious about too, because personally, I found the town hall. I thought it was great. There was a lot of good energy in the room, a lot of positive developments. I was pleased to hear about some of the same things that we've been hearing about for years later. Is our struggle, of course, but that's always going to be the case. We've done here at reachability. We do assessments on physical buildings, like you're talking about, doing the assessments on some of the older properties, and to see what challenges they have. We've done them in other towns in Nova Scotia, and we've been met. I don't want to say resistance, necessarily, but I had one town official make the comment to me that we didn't have to worry about their town hall building because they didn't have any employees with disabilities, so it wasn't a concern. And my immediate response, of course, was, and you never plan to, I understand based on that comment. So in how perspective is everything exactly? Is the perspective as healthy as it seems to me here in Halifax, because it seems like it has been kind of an increasing priority for the city, that we are making more of a focus on accessibility. I'm hoping that's the case. It may just be that I work in this sector, and so I'm banging the drum a lot, but it seems to be a priority in new developments, in particular, like Cogswell, you mentioned, it really seems to be a priority there.

Jean St-Amand 18:03
It really does. And I think, you know, to some extent it's, it's a marker of modern city to have accessibility addressed to the degree that I think we're seeing in some of the most recent projects. And, you know, I think one of the things that we're trying to do in working with staff and council is really just meant to be a reflection of the community. I mean, we are people that were plucked out by the community to represent them on council. It's not like we're career politicians. I certainly wasn't,

Blake Hunsley 18:34
not a year in No,

Jean St-Amand 18:37
I'm not that jaded yet. We'll talk again in 20 years. But you know, if the idea is that, you know, we appropriately prioritize what we think is most meaningful to the residents that we represent, then that will wind up being a natural reflection of the priorities that staff has. And you know that we're meant to be as a council, we're meant to set the priorities for staff to go away with. That's the general premise. And so as long as we continue to hear from the community that this should remain a high priority, and I believe that staff already considers it a high priority, but you know our job, as is your job, to advocate for the community. That's what our job is, too. We're just advocating for absolutely everything. We don't have a specific focus other than our own districts, but every time we reach out to staff, we are met with very positive energy. They're all they are all working doggedly to serve the public. They wouldn't be in the role that they're in if they didn't genuinely care about the city that we live in. So I feel like they've made really good progress, and part of that is leadership coming from past councils to identify where they feel like priorities need to be. And I think that modern city that we're trying to build this is a critical component of that. That's why we've looked to provide as many modes of transportation as possible, and accessibility is a key component of delivering that too

Blake Hunsley 20:09
well in kind of aiming for this modern vision where this is a priority for us, I do want to ask too, what do you think after a year of kind of looking at all these issues that Halifax is doing particularly well because, you know, as maritimers, we love to complain about the things that we're falling behind on. It's our kind of regional sport here, but I'd love to hear what you think we're doing, where we're making tangible progress that you're seeing in accessibility here.

Jean St-Amand 20:30
Well, I think the certainly the service side, 311, was a great example of taking that priority seriously and finding ways to get creative about how we deliver services in an accessible way and minimize barriers. The service delivery in our our libraries, I think, is one of the shining lights in what municipal service delivery is and in specifically how accessible and inclusive service delivery at a municipal level can be you know, we've seen accessibility prioritized in all of the buildings that have been put in place Keshan building. The Keshan library was was renovated and is unbelievably accessible. The central library is an extremely accessible building. We've seen that priority carried over into assets that have been created in the city over the last decade. So I think we're doing a really good job using those priorities to help inform what we're doing for service delivery, whether that's the physical construct of a building or in the programming of services, to ensure that there's something for everyone, and making sure that we minimize every barrier that we possibly can. Now it's going to vary fairly substantially from district to district, potentially because some districts have older assets than others. Some have less capacity to deliver service than others. Recreation services in a downtown environment are very different than recreation services in a rural environment, but we're trying to narrow the difference between the two, because the demand is there.

Blake Hunsley 22:05
Okay, I have to ask the flip side of that, of course, as well. Where are we dropping the ball, or where are the real struggles that you're seeing?

Jean St-Amand 22:12
There continues to be at least a couple of specific areas. I mean, you know, we have some transit stops that are just not accessible at all. I've had that conversation with transit staff, and one of our directors wrote me an incredibly thoughtful and complete email this morning, in fact, as a result of a question that I had asked about accessibility of a couple of specific spots, she gave what I was hoping for, the broader answer about how the priorities are laid out, and it dovetails with the accessibility strategy that the municipality holds. And you know, she she indicated that there are always going to be some spots that are going to physically have some barriers that will not make it possible to make them accessible, but one of the things that we're specifically trying to do is address that through planning. So you know, the planning effort winds up having to construct the opportunity for accessibility just from the very beginning. So using an example of in my own district on Larry UTech, we've got bus stops that are on a side of a road that have no sidewalk, no infrastructure of any kind. Basically, you're standing in a ditch in order to wait for the bus. Well, that's clearly not accessible, not safe for everyone, so it's far from ideal, yeah. So you know, going and Larry UTech isn't a new street. It was renamed after the far end of Kearney Lake Road was split up in two, and so this was always a country road, and so there's a side of it that has a sidewalk, and then it just kind of abruptly ends. The intention is for that to be addressed. A multi use pathway is going to be going in, and that will facilitate a little bit more infrastructure being put in for some safe transit stops, but we can achieve that through appropriate planning, and it's kind of like with some of the buildings, it's hard to shoehorn that in after the fact, because where do you get the money for it? If you if when in the plan, you have funds set aside to put in the infrastructure that that allows you, enables the delivery of accessible infrastructure. That's a totally different animal. It's far more reasonable to put it in under those circumstances. So the more we can get out ahead of it and plan infrastructure that supports accessibility, the better. And that's something that we historically haven't done great, and we're starting to move in the direction that will allow us to better enable accessibility in these new communities that are popping up all over the municipality, especially as we grow as quickly as we are and we know we're we're, we've got more of an accessibility issue in Halifax to come because, you know, we've got an aging population, and so

Blake Hunsley 24:58
We do have an aging population. Population and the growing pains are a serious issue as well. Like, you're right, things like Cogswell is a great opportunity to make an entire new district much more accessible. However, all the building that's going on, we really hear constantly around here from the setbacks during construction now that things are getting less accessible because of closed sidewalks, because of Yeah, so trying to achieve the long term advances in accessibility in these areas, I understand is coming with short term pain. So that must be a particular challenge of just the explosive growth we're seeing right now.

Jean St-Amand 25:28
It is, yeah, and that was identified, again, as a result of my glancing through the strategy guide. That was one of the things that was identified as well is, you know, signage requirements, or providing standards for accessibility, to maintain sidewalks and signage during construction to minimize the impact. I mean, you can't eliminate the impact entirely. There are some practical limitations on how you can go down with narrow streets. Yeah, and if you're you know, if you're going to tear down a building, put in a new one, there's only so safe a perimeter around that that you can provide so it might mean that there's a sidewalk closure on one side of the street. You don't want that to be indefinite for certain, and you want to be able to provide alternatives. You also don't want the signage that indicates that there's a closure to be in the way of the sidewalk itself, which we've seen in a couple of instances, and sort

Blake Hunsley 26:19
of face height for folks with visual impairments. We see that and hear that a lot, right

Jean St-Amand 26:24
So you know, there and adopting some standards around how that is treated, and ensuring that contractors are respecting those standards, that's a whole conversation that happens inside the municipality and its relationship with the contractors that are out there doing work on our behalf or doing work on their own behalf, and they're in our right away, and so we want to be able to impose that standard on them as well, right?

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 26:47
So when we think about, you know, HRM, and the work that you know we're doing and have to do in accessibility, do we look to any other municipalities across Canada as a frame of reference that are doing an exceptionally great job?

Jean St-Amand 27:03
I don't think we look to one in particular. I think we instead there is commonly a jurisdictional scan that is done by municipal staff whenever they're looking to set new policy. And so they'll look for great examples of some particular facet that's being done well in Ottawa or Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver, very often, they'll look to municipalities that are in around our size, slightly smaller, slightly bigger, rather than looking at a megalopolis kind of thing, because we want to make a fair comparison. We know that we have to compare ourselves to municipalities that are under similar fiscal constraints, but we also look for just best practices in general, and so whatever, whatever we can beg, borrow and steal from what others are doing well, is worth looking at and figuring out. How do we what's the Halifax spin on that that makes sense for our municipality and our particularly unique geography?

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 27:59
True that, you know, because that's one of the things then you hear anytime somebody has an issue, then they always compare well, in so and so, when I lived in such and such a place,

Blake Hunsley 28:10
in this flat city with no hills and wide streets, yeah, right. And I

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 28:13
do always kind of kind of chuckle, because I like how you describe like your district, right? Can be very different. As you said, the sandwich, right? And, you know, I think about my district I'm in, like, East Dartmouth, like the that district, Tony Mancini's district. Give him a little shout out. Love Tony and and that is also growing as well, like, you know, we, we've got, you know, now, all the way out to Lake Charles that knew, and so that's becoming more populated. Like, the whole no sidewalks, or the sidewalk ends abruptly, like, so, you know, just trying to compare yourself, like, I mean, even in this from one side of our city to the other, you can't compare the needs of what people.

Jean St-Amand 29:02
Yeah, very much. So, I mean, I think about the neighborhood that I grew up in, in old Bedford, or at least what everyone in Bedford would consider old Bedford. I was off, I was on Douglas drive off of Meadowbrook. That's, that's where I grew up at the time. No sidewalks, right? There was a, I think there was a sidewalk on the lower portion of Meadowbrook at the time, but it kind of abruptly ended at Douglas drive. There was no sidewalk up Douglas. Basinview school didn't exist. Actually, Basinview didn't exist. It was woods at the time. And so we've, we've grown in and grown up and added all of this, all of these places to live and businesses in the areas. And it was very much done with different plans in mind. I mean, one of the reasons that the suburban plan consultation is underway right now is because the municipality has recognized that, you know, when amalgamation took place, we were merging very different communities that each. Had their own set of bylaws. And you know, the regional plan that was first crafted in 2014 did some rejigging of what those land use bylaws were in order to provide for a degree of commonality between them. But there are an unbelievable you would not believe the number of different rules that there are from one to the next. And so the suburban plan is an attempt to modernize and consolidate, provide a common framework for the expansion of the municipality. And you know, we're layering things out. The Regional Plan is sort of the 30,000 foot view we the center plan was adopted not long after the regional plan at the time. Now we've revised the regional plan. It's still with the province to finally approve the updated version of it, but that provides that guiding document. And now we're looking at that outer layer of the suburban area, and the suburban areas, specifically the areas that are serviced with Halifax water. And so there are communities that consider themselves Suburban. They're technically not included in that catchment because they are on well water. And so we're trying to find a way to consolidate all these land use bylaws, and these land use bylaws themselves dive into levels of accessibility and inclusion in how we build out the suburban areas of the municipality. So I think it's important for residents to weigh in on where their priorities are. You know, we have the periodic points at which we ask for feedback on accessibility specifically, but there's another opportunity for residents to weigh in on, how do we better provide services that are accessible and inclusive within the suburban areas in the consultations that are ongoing right now? So you know, if you, if you visit the halifax.ca website, you can go in and find access to the surveys. You can in the shape your city website, you'll find the dates with, I think there's six different in person consultations, all at locations that were picked for their accessibility. Fantastic. And so you know that priority continues to permeate in everything that we do, including when we pick locations to have consultations with the community.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 32:17
So that you answered one of my questions, which was going to be, what do members of our community or residents of the community who have accessibility concerns or want to talk about priorities for them specifically, what do they do? So you heard it here, okay, go to the shape your city portion of the website and look for the various consultation that will be in your area that are appropriate to you

Jean St-Amand 32:41
Yeah, and, you know, talk to your counselors too. I mean, we're we all have our ear to the ground on what's going on in our district, and there are unique challenges from district to district. You know, the the bus stop that I was contacted about most recently wasn't in my district, and it was in the district of somebody that is not on the accessibility advisory committee, but she was fully aware of what that consideration was, and we, we as a committee, looped her in on the exchange about this particular location, right? And she already knew about it, and was was on top of it. So, you know, we're doing the best job we can to help one another and be as informed as we possibly can. Because, you know, the idea of the accessibility advisory committee is to ensure that council has a good sense of how we are meant to address accessibility in the municipality. And so, you know, the accessibility Advisory Committee is not meant to be an island unto itself. We're just meant to be the representatives on the ground in that particular group, and we're meant to try to help keep the rest of the council informed on what's going on,

Blake Hunsley 33:48
speaking of what is going on. So this is the first I've heard about the suburban plan reassessment, which is very exciting. But what else is kind of coming down the pipe that people should be excited about?

Jean St-Amand 33:59
Geez, good question.

Blake Hunsley 34:02
Give you an easy one here early in the morning.

Jean St-Amand 34:04
Well, I mean, you know, if you want to talk easy, let's talk budget. Let's go.

Blake Hunsley 34:10
Wow, taxpayers, no one's gonna go.

Jean St-Amand 34:13
We look, you know, I hope that the community is engaged in the budget process we, as a council, well, I'll speak for myself. I know we're in a really tough spot. You know, the the staff was given direction by council back in November to go away and come back with a bare bones budget. Basically, if we deliver all the services that we historically have delivered. How much is it going to cost in this coming budget year, as long as we, you know, maintain the level of service and protect investments X, Y and Z, and that is what resulted in the number that everyone has seen so far. And it just comes down to where our again, it's it's price. Prioritization and how we will wind up reflecting the priorities of our residents in the debate process that we go through in reviewing the budget. That's the big ticket item that I'm quite focused on, and I think all of my colleagues will wind up being very focused on that budget process, because we're all going to have our own ways of articulating what we're hearing from residents and finding a way to reconcile this, you know, the services that we want to be able to deliver versus the tax bill that we want people to feel comfortable with. You know, we're never going to make everyone happy. We recognize that, I think. But the more we can try to ensure that their views have been reflected in the decisions that we're making, I think will, on balance, deliver the best outcome for residents.

Blake Hunsley 35:52
I suppose that boils it down to to the best thing anyone listening to this podcast can really do right now, if you have any concerns, rather than sitting around and indulging in our regional support of competitive complaining would be call your counselor, reach out. I have to say, anytime I've had to reach out to a counselor, you've all been almost shockingly easy to get a hold of. So I wish it

Jean St-Amand 36:08
were a very accessible level of government.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 36:10
It's true, and participate like I can't. I can't stress enough, okay to people who have concerns, who want things to be better in, you know, the community that we live in, if you don't participate right, then your point of view is never going to be taken into consideration. So participate in these focus groups are great. They're easy. Some of them happen, like in the, you know, the months of the year, like the winter months, when, you know, we complain about not having anything to do so, you know, most of them have like a, you know, like a free refreshment, participate. I can't stress that enough. It's to, you know, to Blake's point about our competitive sport of complaining that, you know, show up, right? If you want to make change, you need to be part of the change. And that's working. You know, with sharing your opinion you have a concern. Bring it to bring you know, bring it to your counselor. And as you know, Jean has talked about today, that one of the biggest things that you know, we're hearing, you know, with the winter months is, you know, during snow removal and reach out, you know, maybe you know. You're sitting back saying, Well, shouldn't they know? Well, if you don't tell them, then maybe they don't know.

Jean St-Amand 37:32
Yeah. And I mean, the one piece of advice that I have, and maybe it's a little selfish, is the community should, when they're reaching out, be as constructive and respectful as possible. You know, one of the things that I found most challenging about taking on this role, and I knew it intuitively going in, was that people really have a strong distrust and a high degree of angst and anger when something doesn't go according to plan. You know, if it whether that's the service standard being met for snow removal or having salt put down or having accessibility to a building like for some reason, we've gotten into a place in the culture where it you go from zero to 100 and unfortunately that the result is that it makes it a lot harder to address the problem. You know, the more constructive and respectful you can be in the dialog. I mean, that's what I try to do. I see my my role as being a diplomat. I'm the bridge between residents and the council as a whole, and through Council staff, and so we have to work as a team, and that goes all the way down to the residents themselves. They have to recognize that they're part of the team too.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 38:56
Absolutely here, here to respectful communications. We can agree to disagree. You and I can disagree. We can still walk out of here, you know, having shaken hands. We don't have to agree on everything absolutely, and mistakes will be made. Like we could have the best plan in the entire country for, you know, salting our roads or clearing our roads, and something's going to happen. The snow plow is going to break down on the day it's supposed to do your area, halfway through your area. That's not like a malicious attack on you personally, but you know, residents, and that goes for everybody in this community, we just have to start talking to each other in a more respectful manner.

Jean St-Amand 39:39
And I think that's one of the reasons that 311, was spun up in the first place, is to provide like one common experience, one common data collection point, if you will, for the municipality to have its finger on the pulse of what's happening and how residents are perceiving the service that they receive. Right. And it's important to note that it's perceiving versus fact, because that there are very often distinctions between those two things. You know when, when someone says, Well, no one has plowed my street, sometimes that's true. Can't deny that. Sometimes it's not. And you know I mean, short of my having the ability to jump in my car and go verify in person. The best way that people can communicate whether expectations are being met is by calling 311, and that goes across the board for all services that are delivered by the municipality. And the reason that that's important is because it gives us a historical look at what services are consistently being met or and it's not like people are calling us to tell bang up job, you absolutely met the standard today. No, we're looking at the exceptions, and so that provides us with a good amount of information to say, hey, we may have a problem here, or this is within the standard. This might just be a perception thing, and we'll do better to manage that perception by communicating better with residents. So there's, there's, there are nuances to how service delivery is rendered within the municipality, and I think as long as residents understand and respect that, and you know, 311, calls too should be subject to the same level of respect and and constructiveness as as I request of residents when they reach out to councilors. But you know, the reality is, everyone's trying to deliver the services. That's the reason we have these standards written down, and we have, we have policies and procedures. But you know, service delivery is a human thing, and so sometimes, sometimes things happen that are within our control, and sometimes things happen that are outside of our control, and they all influence how service is delivered, and that include that extends down to levels of accessibility that we're meant to adhere to. And sometimes it's not always possible, and we miss the mark exactly.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 41:59
Yeah, well, perfection is not something that is going to going to happen. We strive to have, you know, a high level of quality of service, performance, delivery. But nobody's perfect, and all of these things are being delivered by humans. And I don't know about you guys, but I'm not perfect well, and I hate to, like probably break it to you out of this portion of the podcast but neither are you guys perfect.

Blake Hunsley 42:27
No, we know, I would like to shout out the folks who work at 311, because I'm sure that's not an easy job right now anytime. But I mean, we talk around here a lot about how the entire city and society at large, our emotional regulation has gone to pot since covid, it hasn't really recovered. I'm sure that's an incredibly tough job. I would like to shout them out for what it must be an immense amount of patients they have, and to remind people, 311, you can be it can be very helpful, not only in reporting your concerns. I didn't realize you could request a call back to learn when the situation has been rectified. I believe that's the case as well.

Jean St-Amand 42:59
You can, as they've given you a reference number, then you can call or if you submitted your inquiry through an email, then you there's actually an online form that will allow you to submit the reference number and the email address through which you submitted the inquiry, and it'll tell you what the status is. Fantastic. It's not the most revealing of responses. It's kind of just open or closed

Blake Hunsley 43:22
better than being left in limbo, though, because I think that's what frustrates people so much, is there's two things. They're either left in limbo, not knowing if their problem has been given any consideration at all, or and this is the one we've run across here a lot at reachability is people phoning in with the same concern again and again and again. Seems to be what drives a lot of the frustration. Unfortunately for for you and the folks working for the city, that tends to be a step removed, where it's something, you know, the policies are in place, everyone's doing the right thing, and then you have a third party contractor who's not following the rules, or you have someone who's not enforcing So,

Jean St-Amand 43:53
yeah, and you know, our auditor general Did, did identify a gap that we're looking to Close, and that had to do with, you know, this notion of trust but verify. Yes, you know, we have exceptionally well documented policies around like so in this particular case, it was winter operations, and so there was an extensive look at how well documented the standards were, but the mechanisms for verifying that the standard had been met were a little bit lacking, and so that's what the Auditor General identified. And so staff is now moving to address that gap, so that we have a better understanding, not only of whether or not the standard is being met, but importantly, the component of a standard being met is ensuring that the accessibility that we are seeking to achieve by having that accessibility, that standard being met is actually being achieved. And coupled with that, are we getting value for our money, right? You know, when it comes time to evaluate contracts on an ongoing basis, I have to expect that the public works department would find it valuable to know whether or not standards are consistent. So. You know, I think that that was one of the unspoken pieces of his evaluation, was, if you really want to know, then you need to measure. And so narrowing down how to measure and the level of specificity of that measurement is an important component to that so the more we can get that sense that we know for sure that we're achieving our objectives the better, and that that translates to absolutely everything we deliver. But that's one of the reasons that the specific recommendations in the accessibility standard were so completely articulated. There were some that were a little bit broad, but some were explicit about what we want to achieve going out to 2028, okay, that's great. And there are timelines associated with each of them in the document as well. Yes, very short, medium and long term objectives.

Blake Hunsley 45:52
Pie in the sky is great to aim for. But yes, no, I would like some some timelines and measurables would be very important there. Nice to know when it's going to happen. Yeah, exactly. That'll help with some of that, some of that tough emotions with people waiting for these things too, is knowing it's coming in when, yeah, for sure. Well, I really appreciate that. I really appreciate you coming in today, and honestly, for being part of the accessibility committee within your first year, that's got to be an additional challenge to take on while you're learning all the ropes of just being a counselor on top of that. So Well,

Jean St-Amand 46:18
I'm a part of I've lost count now. I think five committees, and I'm the chair of one and vice chair of two at the moment, and I sit on the board at discover Halifax, and I'm the Francophone and Acadian liaison. So I have a lot of different roles to play in this job, but that's not uncommon, because there are so many committees for councilors to sit on, and I think it's important that we represent Council on these various different committees, some of which have actual voting authority to move things up to council, and others are only advisory in nature, but they all play a role in determining how we shape HRM,

Blake Hunsley 47:00
well, I look forward to having you back on in 20 years, when we see if you become a jaded career politician, as promised. We'll play it back. Yes, exactly. Yeah, we'll check back on quotes from this episode.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 47:11
I of course, won't be checking back in 20 years because I'll be retired while you guys are still carrying on the work. I too wanted to thank you for one, as I said, being a member of council, sitting on this advisory committee, working towards some of the same goals we push here at at reachability. But thank you just for being here today. And you know, really, I think it was coming in. It was, I think it was really important for our listeners to hear that you know what the city is doing and some things that they can do to contribute to that. So thank you very much for being with us today.

Jean St-Amand 47:48
You're very welcome. And even though I said that we don't commonly hear back from people when things have gone well, you do have the ability to tell 311, that things went well. So you know, I mean, if we're, if we're looking to make their job just a little bit brighter, yeah, by all means, email 311, and say, great job. Honestly, that sounds kind of nice. Yeah, I've heard from the odd resident when something has been resolved after I've made an inquiry on their behalf, and they sent me this wonderful email saying, Oh, they did a great job. The snowplow operator got out and talked to us and asked, like, where would you like me to put this snow so that it doesn't block your entrance? And so, you know, I wind up forwarding that on to 311, and they, in turn, share it with our snow operations team. So positive reinforcement can go a long way as well.

Blake Hunsley 48:33
It sure does. Well, in that case, speaking of then if, if your constituents, or anyone here in the city has has feedback positive we're hoping for, or negative or constructive. What's the best way for folks to get in touch with you?

Jean St-Amand 48:44
Email and Phone for all councilors is the preferred mechanism. I mean, while we all have social media presences, it's not really the best conduit for official business, and we are all extremely accessible by virtue of the fact that we don't really have staff standing between residents and us. It's our direct cell phone and our direct email that is on halifax.ca so if you really want to talk to a counselor, you are going to get us responding. So that's how to reach us, perfect.

Blake Hunsley 49:15
I can say, from my own experience, it is, like I said, almost shockingly easy to reach a counselor. So I do appreciate your event community a lot. So you know that's true. We do see you folks the same events we show up at, so I

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 49:26
appreciate that commitment as well. Perfect. Well. Thank you very much for participating. Thanks for listening to Within Our Reach, season two of our podcast is made possible thanks to the support of the Province of Nova Scotia and the support for Culture Program. If you have feedback on an episode, an idea for future episode topics, or if you're interested in appearing as a guest, write to us at withinourreach@reachability.org

Transcribed by https://otter.ai