Blake Hunsley 0:47
Hello and Welcome to Season Two of Within Our Reach, a podcast all about accessibility, inclusion and leveling the playing field at work and in our community. I'm Blake Hunsley, and I'm joined by my co host, Shelley Alward MacLeod, and our guests today are Sharisse Lebrun, Director of Education and Outreach at the Neptune Theatre School, and Milena Khazanavicius, local advocate and activist for the Halifax blind and partially sighted population and also a reachAbility board member. Thank you both for joining us today. Thanks for having us. So we are talking today about accessible theaters, particularly at Neptune. So I'm very excited about this. I just got to go with Milena to the Wizard of Oz production and see some of the work she was doing on the audio described performance, which is great. We've heard lots of reviews about low sensory performances. So Sharisse, we can start with you. Why don't you tell people a little bit about, well, I guess, first about yourself, what you do at Neptune, and what sort of accessible measures that Neptune has been undertaking in the last bit to bring more people with different disabilities into the theater.

Sharisse Lebrun 1:01
Excellent. Thank you. So yes, my name is Sharisse Lebrun. I'm the Director of Education and Outreach at Neptune theater. I've only been at Neptune for just over a year, so I definitely want to start by acknowledging that the accessible programming that we have was built by so many people before me. I was kind of gifted and I get to run with it, but Laura Caswell, the previous director of education, really was at the forefront of all of this. And and community members too, asking Neptune and saying, Hey, we want to see we want to experience theater, and you're not making that super possible for us, so yeah, Laura Caswell, her team, people like Julia Topple, Maddie Mason, who are the theater school managers, some other theater school instructors who were passionate about this and got roped in And gladly, like Lucas Arab Sophie Wolcott, Misha Bakshi, and also a lot of Laura did a lot of work with community partners. So a big shout out to A utism Nova Scotia, that did a lot of consulting on our Relaxed Performances. NSCC, ASL, teachers and students. Milena, of course, and there have been quite a few other consultants who have their own practices, as far as audio description, or people with lived experience who are theater lovers and theater makers and want to see theater be for everyone. Also, a big shout out to our development team at Neptune, who's been working really hard to find money to help us do what we do. Accessibility costs money, needs support and and I, I'm really grateful for Leslie and Tamara who've been spearheading that, and the Craig Foundation, which has been our our main sponsor as far as supporting our accessible work. So those are some of the people who have been making this happen. And I think Milena can probably speak to kind of that journey a bit more, because I'm so new here. But essentially what we have offered right now for audience members is we have Relaxed Performances, which are, as you said, kind of low sensory performances. The way I like to describe them is it's actually less about the show being relaxed, and more about us relaxing the rules and etiquette and kind of rigid expectations that we have around experiencing theater. So it's actually, really, we're trying to relax the viewing experience. So there's things like, you know, we lower the volume just a little bit so that it's not jarring. We make sure that any any lighting effects that could cause seizures are removed. We do a lot. There was a time in Relaxed Performances where this is one thing I do. I'm very new to accessible work, but relax performances, I've been working on for some time with them, in my in my theater practice. And there was a time where what we would do is we'd go great. We built a show. It's beautiful, it's theatrical, it's stimulating, it's exciting. And now we're just going to water it down. We're going to take out all of the fun, because we don't want to trigger anyone in the audience, and we we want everything to be safe and easy and gentle. Then where'd the theater go? Right, right. Where's the excitement, where's the magic. And so what we're doing now and then. The big shift in Relaxed Performances has been it's not about taking those things out of the show. It's about how you support the audience through it. So things like in Wizard of Oz, there's a whole bunch of Pyro and loud explosives. So what we did is we did a sample at the pre show to show everyone what it would look like with warning and told them exactly when in the show it will be happening. So they can leave if they want. They can watch if they want. They can go, Oh, I'm going to put my newest canceling headphones on because I know there's going to be an explosive or they can go, Oh, that wasn't so bad. I can't wait to watch that in the show. And we do a lot of and giving them the option of experiencing all of that beforehand, or experiencing it live, and always being able to leave easily with house lights up, doors open, lots of extra Ushers and just an understanding from everyone in the audience that people are going to be coming and going. To be you might hear vocal tics. You might hear there might be children. A lot of families like to bring kids to relax performances because they get nervous about, oh, my kids gonna be loud. And it's like, actually, you're allowed to be loud here. So it's just giving permission to people to experience the show in a way that's best for them. Interesting, yeah, and it's been really, I've gotten to be a part of a few of those now. And the really fun ones are actually the shows like Wizard of Oz that are so big and boisterous. And we get to kind of, there's a bit of a teaching component too. Of like, we get to show you how the magic is made. And I think that that's that makes it easier to watch if you know, like, Oh, that's not real, or Oh, everyone's safe. But it's really, it's really cool to watch people delight in that, and to watch people delight in the magic, and not remove that magic, because we think they can't handle it. We make it. We try to package it in a way that's a the audience is able to

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 6:51
enjoy it and receive it well. It gives the gives each person in the audience control exactly.

Sharisse Lebrun 6:57
Yeah, we're not deciding what you can and can't experience not

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 7:00
everybody's level of need, okay, yeah, is the

Sharisse Lebrun 7:04
same, especially with the relaxed performance, because there's, there's, there's such a wide range of people and abilities and ways of living and experiencing the world that are accessing a show like that, whereas some of our other shows are a bit more like This show is for this community. And while no community is you can't paint any community with one one color, there is a bit of like, oh, well, we know everyone here will have a different like, they won't be able to hear the show in the same way as a fully you know hearing person would. And so there are certain things that we know will support all of you in that. So, yeah, so those are our Relaxed Performances. The next piece is our ASL performances, where we don't have as many of those, to be perfectly honest. And that's something there. There were quite a few. And then, kind of covid, they kind of disappeared a little bit. Well, everything disappeared, and that was something that hasn't been brought back in the full fullness of the way it was before covid. So that's something I have a lot of questions around how we can be getting back to having at least three of those. But yeah, we bring in ASL interpreters. They rehearse the show with the actors, depending on the show. Sometimes those interpreters are really integrated into the performance, and sometimes they're placed in front of the stage, you know, a dance musical, trying to rehearse an interpreter into a show. That's going to be a safety issue, or would require weeks of rehearsals, but like our Christmas carol that happens every year, because that one happens every year, there's been a lot of rehearsal that can go into it. So that one's really beautiful in that the interpreters are right on stage with the actors, and there's actually a lot of play and interaction between the actors and the interpreters, like they acknowledge each other and kind of mess with each other, and it makes it's like a whole other level of theatrical performance, which I love. I love one of my favorite things is when accessible theater actually becomes more theatrical and is a whole other level of performance. And then, of course, our audio described performances, which I'm happy to kind of have Milena talk a bit more about, if I, if you don't mind me handing it over to you, sure you're our expert.

Sharisse Lebrun 9:27
So what you want me to do, I would love

Blake Hunsley 9:28
to hear you talk about it, because I have to say, I've been very fortunate. You very kindly took me to see Wizard of Oz with you, and you were still working on the audio, described portion of it. And it was really fun to kind of get to pick your brain and watch you work on it, and then also to sit there. And I would be sitting there howling, laughing, totally honest. I was laughing at the facial expressions of the actress playing the Wicked Witch of the West, because I'm obsessed with her face acting some of the funniest things I've ever seen. And I would just be howling, and Milena would have notes at most o f the places where I was laughing. And then every once in a while, you would turn to me, go, okay, what are you laughing at? Right? Yeah, that's fine. It's the face acting. It's so good. So it was really neat to get to see kind of a bit of, I hate the expression, how the sausage is made, but a little bit kind of, so why don't you tell us what's involved in your in your particular sausage making?

Milena Khazanavicius 10:18
Oh, Lord, oh, Lord is right. We're about to make the sausage. Let me give you a little bit of history in the background, if you don't mind. So for me, as Sharisse has already mentioned, so I've been, I've been knocking on Neptune's door for at least 15 years, because I had opportunities to go to the US and watched, described, this audio described, not described video. That's a whole other compartment department, but audio description, live in live theater over in the US. Toronto, Alberta, British Columbia, are high up in there and they and they're running, they're they're blind and partially sighted folks, population slash community come out in significant numbers. Okay? We were having a problem bringing in our blind and partially sighted audience to audio description because, you know, they didn't know it's probably going to be shitty, or what this is going to be, or whatever, right? And so one of the last shows that we did, actually Wizard of Oz, that we did for the 2025 2026 season, we had our largest number, which is small in Toronto terms, but we had 17 people come out. And so the marketing, the word is getting out more and more and more. So 15 years, and it wasn't until I met Laura Caswell, as Sharisse had met, and we were on the board of the Friends of the public gardens together years ago. And I said, Listen, I've been knocking that door. She says, I've been knocking on the door too. And she says, Let's partner together. So, so it's been, it's been a for me on my end, because I you know, and understand, not everybody likes live theater, but I it's, I've just, I've always loved it. I back home in Lithuania, where I was born. My parents brought me to live theater from the beginning, when I was sighted, and the magic that's on stage can be, I mean, just really, you know, it can bring you, can it can crush you. It can elevate you. It can do everything. And as somebody who's been blind 30 years, I want that. I need it and so. And little by little, we're bringing it so to do an audio described show, if you are doing it professionally. And this was put in by, I cannot deny the fact that Kat Jermaine, which is one of the best audio describers, she was here, and it was actually Kat taught Laura. Kat's gone back to Ontario. So sad. Boo hoo. Doing, doing, you know, more work out there. And so Kat, Kat, I was under Kat's guidance as a consultant, and for me as a consultant, because I'm completely blind when I'm watching the show, to put together an audio described show. And let's, let's look at what we're running now, Mad Madge, for example, right? Which is crazy amounts of action on stage, non stop talking. And rule number one of audio description for the describer is not to talk over the actors on stage. This is a show where it's really difficult, because there's a lot of physical body movement that is quite funny while the people are talking. And in order to get all of that in, you have to be able to talk really fast and cut your words so you remove the word is, you remove the word the you remove the word act, because that's the second two, three seconds you've saved in your description. For me, as a consultant, I go to watch the show at least three times before we go through what we've decided to call it a wine and cheese run script. And what that means is the audio describer is writing an entire script alongside the show that is running for description. I go to see the shows three times, the first time with very little acknowledgement or interpretation, with a sighted friend as as I believe Blake, it was you and I, when we went to see wizard of Oz, you were the first on the go. Okay, and so I'm listening and I'm listening, and I have to really split my brain into many different compartments. One, I was born sighted. Two, I've been in the theater world through friends of mine, and so I understand downstage, center left, and all of that. That's something as an audio describer, you cannot use no theatrical terms in audio description, because generally people don't understand that. Okay? And three, while I may be understanding what the action is happening on on on stage with somebody who's never seen in their entire life, understand so I have to put. Everything aside from me and thinking in those terms. Then I write down those notes the first time, then they go back and watch it again with a different friend to get a different perspective on what and you'd be surprised on and I picked out my people who are very good at watching Blakey poo. You're one.

Blake Hunsley 15:19
I'm opinionated, and apparently that's helpful. Yes, I'm not subtle. When I'm entertained, I was the loudest one in the theater, at the Wizard of Oz.

Sharisse Lebrun 15:30
I have the same problem.

Milena Khazanavicius 15:32
So so go, and then I'm taking my notes back, and I'm either emailing or calling or talking to the audio describing team. You know, here's what I was getting. This is where it needs a description. The audience was laughing here. Why were they laughing? You'd be surprised at audio describers when they're watching the show, how much they actually miss. As a sighted person, and this comes from experience, right? It's, it's, you're watching the action, you're laughing, but you're not seeing everything. Sometimes you're missing other things too. Sometimes you're missing that people are laughing, right? But somebody who is blind or partially sighted needs to know why the people are laughing. What's so funny? Why didn't my audio describer tell me what that was? So this is why I do the three runs with sighted friends that are not biased in the theater world, in audio description, because all three of my sighted friends bring something different to the table, for example, and you can cut this out. (Blake: Oh no.) Okay, so in Mad Madge, there is a scene where, where, where the queen is saying, Oh, I sucked it off. I sucked it up. Do you know what I mean? And while she's seeing all this, she's she's showing the motion of a blow job. Okay, so we were talking with the audio describers, a little bit too loud, I guess, in

Speaker 1 16:54
In the lobby. As patrons arrive.

Milena Khazanavicius 16:57
Yes. Before the tech run yesterday, and they were like, ahem, there's patrons arriving. Like, Oh yeah, right, okay, so we did decide against going saying a blow job, for fear of offending anybody. And what, what did we use? I think we went with the jerk off

Unknown Speaker 17:13
Jerk off motion,

Milena Khazanavicius 17:15
jerking off motion.

Blake Hunsley 17:16
This is gonna be our first explicit content warning episode. I'm very excited

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 17:24
Is that R Rated?

Milena Khazanavicius 17:25
But know, but this is live theater. And while, well, I mean, the words are very funny, because the queen is the actor on stage is so theatrical, right? And it's just like, you know, and all of this. And I mean, you're getting what's happening, but it's also the physical action, and people are laughing hard. Is the vocal stuff that funny? Yes, but why are people laughing even harder? Because she's making hand motions with that jerking off hand job thing. And so while the queen is talking, the audio describer has to get that in. And I got that BJ word from a sighted friend of mine, where it was very, very soft and kind from the audio describer's point of view originally. I'm like, No, we're doing what is on stage. Sighted people get to see what is happening, and we're gonna say what is happening, plain and simple. This is not, this is not an, you know, a child. It's not Wizard of Oz.

Sharisse Lebrun 18:27
This is our first show with audio description that has sexual content, right? And so that's been a really interesting learning experience. There's in theater when there's sexual content on stage or any nudity which the show also has. You have an intimacy coordinator whose job is to craft those moments with the actors, to kind of remove the power dynamic of director saying you have to do this. And also, there's just been a real acknowledgement that this is a specialization, and that it can be, you know, as beautiful as a dance piece and as caring as a traumatic scene that you need to be guided through. So we did do some chatting with our intimacy coordinator to go, like, how do we, how did what's the language you use to talk about these moments? But then also, like, a big thing you said, Milena, is that it's people tend our own shame around those things cause us to under describe them, or to not use the right language, and then you don't get the same experience that the audience does.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 19:40
That's just what I was I was thinking, well, most of us don't like to use some of that wording.

Sharisse Lebrun 19:46
We want to see it. (Laughter)

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 19:48
That's exactly war with ourselves. We want to see it because we see it, and then we understand and we get the we get, I think, a much greater experience. But when you, as you said. When you soften it down, it's almost like you're softening down the performance, which wasn't by the sounds of it. That's not meant to be soft. It's meant to be loud, right?

Milena Khazanavicius 20:10
And you're also belittling the blind and partially sighted patron. And just to very, very quick example of that. So there is nudity by the main character, and while speaking, when Sharisse did the speaking with the intimacy coordinator, and to me, because watching some adult content that was audio described, not very properly Descriptive Video. Okay, that's a whole other journey. Never mind that. That's a whole nother episode, right? And there's big, huge issues amongst the blind and partially sighted populations. So that, you know, we're adults too. So don't, don't tell me, oh, you know, talk it. Say what's there. So back to the show. Mad Madge is an example, right? The intimacy coordinator had certain things to say, and for me, I said, we will describe the person who will be exposed as this individual chooses to describe themselves and the way and the way, and we have to cater to that, because I'm not going to tell Blake here. I'm going to describe you this way when Blake you want to describe yourself or Shelley or Sharisse. So the way that the that the partial nudity was with the main actor was that she described herself as red pasties on her chest. And that's what we had to go with, and that's what we're going with on her chest. Now to me, I would have rather preferred that it was her breast, but that's not my decision, because the main actor described herself as the red pasties in a flame in a flame form looks like a flame shape. It's on my chest, and we're going with that so that, because that's the person, that's what they want to be described as, you know, and that's so we're going to take it that way in reality, I know what's there, so on and so forth and but we have to go with what the actors on stage want to self describe as for the most part. And I really believe in that. And if we don't have that, that opportunity to actually speak to the to the actor, then then we don't, you know, then we have to go on the most descriptive, yet correct and and polite way, and using the word,

Sharisse Lebrun 22:39
The anatomical word. This one was interesting too, where a lot of actors identify as non binary and play particular actually, in this play, too, sometimes they're playing multiple genders, yeah, and, and, so yeah, every I love the piece of every actor records a self description, and they give us a sample that describes their their costumes, and my favorite part is they give us a sample of what their character voice sounds like. So you get such a clear like, I like to listen to those with my eyes closed and see what I imagine. And for me, it's the voice that really goes, Oh, now I can imagine this character. So I love that piece. And I love

Blake Hunsley 23:24
is that something just internal for you guys, as you're working on the audio description, or is that included in the final product?

Sharisse Lebrun 23:29
Included. So when the audience comes in and their earpiece is is all set up, our audio describer, you know, does a little intro for the show talks about the space, you know, where bathrooms, bar, safety exits, things like that. And then, before the show begins, we have pre recorded character descriptions that play for you so you get to it makes it so that we're not You're not talking over the actors as much, right? If someone walks in and says, It's me, the Queen, and then you have to say everything you're wearing and what they look like. Yeah, exactly. And then they do the same with the set and any language that is going to make communicating easier. So for example, mad Madge, there's a lot of ensemble work, so a lot of the actors who aren't the principal in a scene will come in together and do a lot of movement. And so in the pre show, Misha said there's going to be a lot of ensemble movement. The actors will be playing multiple characters. They're going to come in and out and support the main action on stage. We're going to call them the company. So then every time one or two or 10 of them enter, she can say, the company circles mad match, rather than six or seven people run on scene. So there's a lot of like, kind of almost like creating shared language before the actual performance starts.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 24:54
Setting the stage, so to speak.

Sharisse Lebrun 24:56
Exactly. And getting like, almost like that quick speak that theatre Artists have of like moved downstage left, but it's when we say, you know, living room, we mean a couch in the middle, and two chairs over here, and the lights pink, things like that.

Milena Khazanavicius 25:14
Yeah, and we, and we and we again. This came from Kat Jermaine that we put in the self description, because it also permits the audio describer. So I think what people misunderstand, you don't just go in and start audio describing and then people think it's really easy, but it's not. It's an art form in its own it really is. And there is many, many meaning rules to it, right? So you cannot be subjective to, oh, Sharisse is wearing a beautiful What are you wearing? By the way,

Sharisse Lebrun 25:46
black and white striped turtleneck.

Milena Khazanavicius 25:49
Okay, maybe not so beautiful. (Laughter. Sharisse: I've got pretty red boots on!) Oh, a pretty red boots. Excellent. Okay, so if you're saying pretty red boots, you are saying because you are wearing them, and so they're pretty red boots. Now, if I was actually sighted in describing Sharisse, what Sharisse was wearing, the only thing I can say is Sharisse is wearing a sweater, black and white stripe, red boots, ankle high or knee high. I cannot use the term a beautiful sweater or stunning red boots, because that's my biased opinion, and I cannot give that to the blind or partially sighted audience. I can only describe and so sometimes, and this, this goes through Laura, we had to train Laura Kat, and I know you can't the only time that's something that's permitted, that it's more like, like we had Cinderella, or, you know, Sleeping Beauty, because if there's kids in the audience who are blind or partially sighted, you want to make it that much more magical when it's adult content, you can only say what you are seeing, plain and simple. That's it. You cannot do your own interpretation. Okay? So that's something that's really difficult. And then again, and you cannot say on stage Sharisse is wearing. Sharisse wears because wearing is two syllables. Wears is one syllable. So you get so it's a lot. It's a lot, a lot for the actual audio describer. It's a true talent. It's an art of its own. And then for me, as a consultant, you know, I got to bring this on and and talk to the describers. And I've, I've argued with with my audio describers. I don't like the way you're describing that. That's not going to work for for people who are there. And while there was no argument, there was a discussion on one of the characters in Mad Madge, on how this, this actor's hands were throughout the whole stage, right, somebody identified as a horse, and I and I said, Well, I've been told by a couple others of my sight of friends outside the theater looks more like a begging little puppy. Let's go with that. And then the end. By the end it but that begging little puppy image is all wrapped up, because at the end of the show, the character is walked off, off stage in a leash, and never mind all that, you'll have to come and see the show.

Sharisse Lebrun 28:05
I also was talking to the actor, and he said, Oh, this actor made sense to me. The realized the moment I realized he was a dog. So actually, that is what he is envisioning as well. Yeah, so, but we just have to, yeah. We have to find it ourselves, because we don't get their insight.

Milena Khazanavicius 28:21
All right, for anybody, okay,

Blake Hunsley 28:22
for anyone who's hearing some hacking and coughing and lots of licking, that would be, that would be hope Melinda's guide dog who's doing all the licking and hacking on the floor here. Hope, we're very happy to have you joining us on the show.

Sharisse Lebrun 28:36
Hope is an unofficial consultant on our audio to a number of shows.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 28:43
I think hope, hope got up and started walking around because hope felt, I think, a little left out of the conversation. But So back to this audio describing this is so amazing for me, like as a fully sighted person, you know Milena, when you said, people think it's easy, I literally never stopped once in my life. Okay, to think about the work that would go into that this conversation, I think that's very important. You know, when people are saying, well, we need to have this that it's not just a matter of snapping their fingers and you run out and get somebody who's going to come in and describe, like, to to give it the same experience, so that, like, you know, blind and partially sighted people are having the same theater experience as as I have, like getting to have that I never, ever would have thought of this? This is, like, really, really informational.

Blake Hunsley 29:45
I think anyone who's well, I mean, anyone who would have gone and seen you work on the process, for sure, but anyone who's even heard a snippet of an audio described performance ever, I think easy would be the last thing that they would that they would use to describe it. Because for me, as someone who you know. I host a podcast. I'm naturally on the verbose side of things, to have that succinct language to describe everything that is being shown on stage in between the lines of dialog, that sounds like a nightmarish task to me.

Sharisse Lebrun 30:13
I could record some on Saturday for you.

Blake Hunsley 30:15
I was actually going to ask at the end, yeah, if we could get a little snippet,

Sharisse Lebrun 30:18
I'll record some on Saturday. And I think again, like, similar to the ASL performances, there are, there are moments where the description really does evoke, like, the same experience. Like, you know that energy you feel in your body when, like, the pacing is moving beautifully on stage, and the lights are coming up and the music swelling, like having someone describe that can make the hair rise on your arms true.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 30:49
You don't even realize you start, like I've been at the theater where, like, things start to happen. You lean in, and you don't even realize, like, you've started to lean in on your chair, your hands have come up, and you're, you're like, trying to, I don't know, get your face into the Yeah, and

Sharisse Lebrun 31:02
there's a aliveness to it as well. Like the rehearsal last night. You know actors play, and you can rehearse something a million times and it's not going to look exactly the same. So there was a lovely moment last night where the actor, one of the actors, did a little pelvic thrust, and our describer said she thrusts, and then she did another one. She goes, she thrusts, she thrusts, thrust, thrust, thrust, thrust, thrust, thrust thrust.

Milena Khazanavicius 31:29
And she was also laughing and laughing, yeah, it was

Sharisse Lebrun 31:32
so funny. And like that wasn't rehearsed, you know, like, so there's, it's almost like, really, as you said, Milena, it is an art form, not just in, like, the storytelling piece of it, but the listening and the and the play with the performers and the audience, which is like, that's theater. That's the magic and and I think it's so incredible that that magic isn't missing,

Blake Hunsley 31:56
that there's depending on how well you've done, yes, you're enhancing the experience and making it just as magical. Or the risk, I suppose, is you can really take someone out of the experience if you're not being descriptive enough, if you're being in any way subjective, if you're talking, talking over the dialog, must be the worst that would take.

Milena Khazanavicius 32:13
Yeah, and it's happened a few times, and I will say that some of our patrons were quite upset about it, you know, to the point where it's like, no, I don't think I want to come back again, because it was talking over, we're, we're, we're, how do I put it? And Sharisse, you wouldn't know that yet, but you know, we're really in its, let's say, at the toddler stage, because you know, even Laura Caswell for the audio, describing she's still learning. You know, I've gone through the ropes, I've lived it. And they go back to Kat Jermaine, who was, who was a part of this. I mean, she's been doing that for years. There's training involved as well. And the one thing that, as if you know anybody wants to go into that business, is you do not. And it really irritates. It actually, that makes me angry for audio described shows that are in some theaters who have not consulted with somebody who's the lived experience person you cannot, as a sighted person, understand what is happening and then go up there and start describing and say, This is great. The other, the other thing, the other thing I'll point out, is people quite often ask me, you know, why don't you just record and so you can run audio description more nights than not? And the problem with live theater not a problem. The beauty with live theater is that every night there's something different. Again, thrust, thrust, thrust, right? That didn't happen any of the other performances, right? And then there was one, there was one show, I think was the play that that was, oh my god, the play within the play, the play that goes wrong. Oh, the play that goes wrong. Oh my god, I'm rolling my eyeballs inside my empty socket, by the way, people that that, that that play was almost, virtually impossible. And so then the describe, audio describers to say there is a superb amount of action and and and vocabulary happening. We will try to describe as much as we possibly can, but we can't get everything, so we've got that heads up. But what happened on, on, on the night of and after we we, we did a tech run. We've run the scripts. We've done all of it. And on actual audio, described night, a fire went in a basket on stage, which was not part of the show. So our audio describers like there's a fire on stage. And not to worry, it's just been put out. Okay, so that actually happened. How the fire started? Nobody knows, but this is live theater. That's the beauty of it, and it's wonderful. And I want to throw in before I turn it back over to Sharisse, that while we're growing our audience, you know, people are now aware of what Neptune is doing and and they're asking, Can we have more audio described shows? Can you run? Can you run? For example, we're going to be losing one audience member for Come From Away, because there's something else that they're going to and. National Tournament, and they were asking if there's going to be another audio described show for Come From Away. Well, sadly, we're not. So for all those people who are providing grants and a little bit of money, you know, you give a little bit of money, you get more patrons, and we grow the arts. And we do because this is great. We're only doing three shows out of 12 for 2025, 2026 three shows out of 10, right? Sharisse for 2026, 2027 I want to bring it up to four shows. And it would be nice if we could have more, because people will come. People will come. We can be Toronto. We can be we can be British Columbia, Vancouver. We can do it. So we just need a little bit more funding and yeah,

Sharisse Lebrun 35:44
and help communicating what we're doing. Because I think something that surprised me. I'm not from Nova Scotia and I but I'm I'm a theater artist, and so I've been really aware of what Neptune's been doing for a long time, but there are people in this province that don't know the quality of professional theater that exists here, let alone that we have options beyond just your standard performance. And yeah, I think that's definitely a goal, is to just be able to talk to more people about what we're doing and get more people excited and get more people in so thank you for having us and helping us do that.

Blake Hunsley 36:24
Well this actually brings us back something you said right off the start, too, about the kind of lower sensory, lower barrier performances that it's to lower the kind of formality, if you will, as well, for people who might not be used to live theater, too, I think that's a fantastic approach, not to water down the performance, but just to make it something that's a little less maybe scary for people who aren't yeah and familiar with what a live theater performance is, I'm

Sharisse Lebrun 36:48
like, I love theater. I just think it's the greatest thing in the world. But I've definitely had experiences of bringing people to see plays who are uncomfortable in the theater, and that might just be because they've never been they don't know what the expectations are, and I do, unfortunately, think that theater has given itself a bad rap, sometimes as something that's stuffy or elitist or pretentious, or, you know, the amount of theaters I've walked into in the pre shows like open your candy wrappers Now, because we don't want any noise. And I'm like, what, why do we let, why do we go into a live experience and expect our audience not to be live and not to be living their full selves in that space? And I think, I think that Neptune does a good job of that. And I think their offerings, like, how broad and how many shows they're offering is inviting a lot more people in, but it can be scary just to walk in the door and so, yeah, something that I'll add is like, you know, when we do an ASL performance, we have an interpreter in the lobby to greet you and welcome you. When we do a relaxed performance, we send out a pre show package that shows you how to even get to the theater, where to walk in, where the bathrooms are, who, who are the different staff you're going to encounter. For our our audio described performances. Milena does training with our front of house staff on guiding and welcoming blind and partially sighted people into the theater. And so I'm really proud that this work is beyond the performance, and that I think something Neptune does really well is think about like the performance begins, or the experience begins when you're buying your ticket. And and buying a ticket can be a barrier, you know, like, so trying to trying to change those expectations, trying to dispel those myths, trying to like I even my politics are that when I watch a show, I'm loud at that show because I want other people to know they're allowed to be loud. I'm the loudest laugher in the room, and because when I'm on stage, I love that, because that's the magic. It's, it's us being together and reacting and experiencing together. And if you're just sitting with your feet together and your hands together, stifling your opinions, that magic leaves, you know. And so yeah, I think I'm, I'm really thrilled that that's been a piece of your work, Milena, is that it starts from the moment people are thinking about joining us. I think there's, yeah, there's continued work in us communicating that piece of it. Because for us to say, well, the show is, you're going to love the show. Well, if, if you are, you know, if you live in a wheelchair, it's not the show you're worried about. It's the experience of getting to it right.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 39:46
Exactly so and on. On that note, I was before the show, I would, I was like to go to whoever the organization is, their website, and I I was, because I've never really would have a need to. I. Have to look that stuff up, but it was very clearly written on the website, like your different offerings, right, which, which I, which I, you know, was, was pleased to see. But you know, two, two takeaways that I've heard from today show, because the descriptions of what you do and what goes on to make those things happen, I think, are phenomenal. I think it's important for our audiences to know that. But two takeaways, I think, is like there needs to be continued communication, okay, about the offerings, okay, even about what goes into the offerings, what to expect, because there could be people who are maybe intimidated, have had bad experiences in the past. And the other takeaway is for, you know, all those people that are listening that would like to, you know, make a donation. Okay, yeah. Help support, you know, inclusive, you know, an accessible theater for all. Please reach out to Sharisse. We'll have a reach out to share some and you did you want to leave your email?

Sharisse Lebrun 41:04
Yes, my email is slebrun@neptunetheatre.com, and if you go to our website, I'm on, if you go to the theater school tab and the staff tab, my information is also there. And, yeah, I think because to the the audiences for these shows are still small enough that we can consult so like we sent out as soon as the season for 26/27 was announced, I sent all the information to everyone who's bought a ticket for an audio described performance. And I said, What do you want to see? We can't promise you that we're going to give you exactly what you want, but if all of you want to see the Grinch, we're not going to choose, you know, rent, we're going to choose the Grinch and and so like I think, for me too, I'm very new to the community here, and so part of my My job is, is connecting and getting out into community. But I'm also very like, I love getting an email from someone saying, I've been coming to Neptune for 10 years, and I bring my mom, and she can't see and what do you have? Or, what about this show? Because it's hard to at a company this big. It's hard to be, you know, really relational with, with everyone who comes through the door. And so, yeah, send me an email. As you can hear, I'm pretty, pretty friendly, pretty down for a chat.

Milena Khazanavicius 42:31
Oh, she's very friendly. Yeah. And I just sorry. I want to, I just want to throw in three quick little things, so when we do offer touch tours when possible, ahead of time for those who are blind and partially sighted. So you actually get to touch some of the some of the if there's puppets like, you know, during Christmas show and stuff like that, which is phenomenal, just to bring that whole entire image into into into the cranium of the of the person who's blind and partially sighted, on the on the, you know, the survey. And this was since Sharisse came on board and and I said, Listen, I want to, I want to switch it up a little bit. Because previous to Sharisse coming on, I was asked, like, what shows you think we should do? And I don't want to be the person deciding on the show that we're going to do, because what I actually like is not what the general talk people like, like, I'd rather watch Mad Madge shows all the time, right? I want nudity. I want yeah, I want something, right? (Laughter) And it was actually the three shows that we were doing. I you know, they've all been great, they've all been wonderful, but I would have rather seen something else. So I said, I don't want to be that person. Let's send it out to who we have now. Let them pick and choose, because then, then, then it's known up to me, etc, etc. So that's through. And last but not least, I want to, I want to bring something for anybody else who's listening. And this comes, comes from two people over the years who were actually partially sighted, and they came out, and I said, Here, just give it a shot. All right, I don't need audio description. I don't need audio description. And the response from both those people, two different shows, two different locations, was, when they had the audio description was, I did not realize how much I was not seeing, right, exactly? And I said, I said, I don't know how to respond to you for that. I said, I kind of feel bad, you know, does that make you upset? They said, No, that that makes me feel that much better because I, because I needed to know, you know, I was missing some of the really good stuff. And what were the people talking about? Why was this so great when, when all I saw was what I saw, but what the audio description I saw everything. So I was kind of afraid that those comments, I'm like, oh, did I just send you down a, you know, a sad road that you, you, you, you're not. You just realize you're not seeing as much as you are. But in fact, what it did was, was just given that much more light and imagination, and I'm gesticulating here, because how exciting I was to do, you know. Excited to hear that, that they didn't realize how much they were not seeing, but because they had audio description, they got it all and so good for us.

Sharisse Lebrun 45:08
Yeah, you're killing it. Milena, absolutely

Blake Hunsley 45:12
Before we wrap up. I just wanted to say we haven't said a start date or anything for Mad Madge. So did you want to is there a start date?

Sharisse Lebrun 45:19
Yeah, so Mad Madge is actually closing this Sunday, but we do have, yeah, we have an audio described performance this Saturday, February 7, at 2pm

Blake Hunsley 45:31
So we'll have missed that, sorry, folks,

Sharisse Lebrun 45:34
yes, of course. It's, we're not live. However the next one, the next one is Come From Away. And I'm so sorry I don't have the I've hold so many dates in my head. I'm gonna look it up.

Milena Khazanavicius 45:47
I believe it's April 27 is that whatever the Saturday? One of the last Saturdays in April, one of the last Saturdays in April, it's Come From Away. Audio described, yeah, so they won't be missing that. Okay?

Sharisse Lebrun 45:59
Perfect. Yeah. You keep you keep vamping while I look it up. Or maybe what I'll do is I'll just send it to you.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 46:09
There would have been no difficulty for Milena to vamp. (Laughter)

Sharisse Lebrun 46:16
I did. I looked it up before I came and then it left my brain, because you've had such a great conversation. But, yeah, I think Come From Away has been the show that, like our, our the public is so excited to come and see and it's selling really fast. So get your tickets if you're coming to the audio described show. I'm really, we've, I've got some ideas for the touch tour that I think will be really fun. And what's really exciting about it too, is it's been, you know, it's on Apple TV. It's, it's been done in Toronto, like, there have been some professional Canadian productions, but this will be one that's like, hyper local. There's gonna be, there's a ton of, like, Halifax rock stars in it. And just

Milena Khazanavicius 47:00
got the shivers for the audience,

Sharisse Lebrun 47:01
it is gonna be like, it's not a replica of the original. Come From Away. So the director, Jeremy Webb, is, you know, gonna be bringing his own vision to this. The designers, I've already seen samples of the design, and there's these beautiful wooden strips that are like curved to look like waves and flight paths and like, I'm really excited for you to we're going to take the samples and show them, and you can touch them, Milena. And I'm I think it's going to be a really special show. And I think it's the my experience of the show in the past is it's one that the audience leaves feeling so connected to each other, yeah. So I'm excited to to experience that with our audio described audience, and I'm really excited to see what they want to experience next year, there's already a lot of requests for the Grinch. Don't you worry, Milena, I love Grinch.

Blake Hunsley 48:03
Milena very Kindly lets us know here at reachability, whenever there is an audio described performance coming up at Neptune. So that goes on our social media here as well. So if for some foolish reason, you're not following Neptune on social media, which you should follow us on social media, and we'll put it on there as well.

Sharisse Lebrun 48:17
I have one plug I'd love to make, which is we also, you know, we have a theater school, we have these education programs for four year olds all the way up to adult. And something that we're working on is just making more awareness around how we make those classes accessible as well. Right now, it's been very much. It's so relational, right? It's a parent calling a kid showing up, a teacher, listening and adapting. But I just want to make sure that people know that they can we want, we want their kids to come and experience theater with us, and we are doing a lot to train and equip our teachers to be better at bringing accessible practices into their classroom. We have a workshop coming up with someone from Camp Brigadoon who programs their theater their theater programs, and so they're going to do some training with us. And we also just got funding for the first time to have someone dedicated to accessibility in our summer camps, so that person will be helping us create best practices, training our staff, but will also be there to to tailor curriculum and to be extra support for the teachers, To to Yeah, help every kid thrive in our programming. Because, yeah, something that I think is really important is if we're inviting audiences in. What happened to me when I get invited in as an audience is I fell in love with theater, and I knew I wanted to make it. And I think if we show people what theater is, but then we don't give them a space where they can go and make it and dream of being a theater artist. Then, you know, we're not thinking holistically. And also, then those kids, hopefully will be able to advocate for, you know, more disabled artists on stage as well. So I'm really, really excited to see how we can just formalize our accessible, accessible practices in our classrooms. And it just makes me, like, really excited about the future, to think about what that could what the ripple effect of that could be. So, yeah, so, you know, send your kids our way. And if you're nervous about it, just give me a call. Maddie Mason, our theater school manager as well. We love to talk to parents and guardians about how we can, yeah, help kids thrive in creative spaces and spaces where you know the goal is really allowing kids to show up as their full selves and growing in confidence about who they are and what they have to offer in the world and yeah, so that's my last little plug.

Milena Khazanavicius 51:11
(Singing) I believe the children are the future, teach them well and let them lead that way. Thank you very much. I'll be on stage in 2035.

Sharisse Lebrun 51:20
Come from Away starring Milena.

Shelley Alward-MacLeod 51:23
That's right, stay tuned for milena's show stopping performance, singing, dancing. It'll be similar to a karaoke performance. Oh yes, coming to you in theater near you in 2035 Yes. Anyway, I jest. Well, our time together has come to an end, but I really wanted to thank both of you, both Sharisse and Milena, for this very, very informative and lively conversation. And so thanks so much to our listeners for listening to within our reach, season two of our podcast is made possible thanks to the support of the Province of Nova Scotia and the support for Culture Program. If you have any feedback on an episode, not this one, and not the content, (laughter) an idea for future episode topics, or if you're interested in appearing as a guest, write to us at withinourreach@reachability.org, thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai