>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s and I used to live

in a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect

on what's happening both to us and around us. And

so we're taking our moment to stop and reflect, to

work out where we are and where we are going and

where our relationship with God fits into all. So

we're back again doing another reflection episode.

So welcome back, Ethel.

>> Ethel: Thank you. It's so good to be on this side of the

microphone.

>> Julia: Does it feel a bit strange though?

>> Ethel: No.

>> Julia: Okay, that's.

>> Ethel: Sorry. I used to be a presenter.

>> Julia: That is true, you did. And so we've had quite a

wide range of topics over the last 10 episodes,

including two really good episodes on addiction

with Lauren. and I've been saying to everyone, I

could have spent all day talking to Lauren. Like

she had so much to say and so much in depth, which

is how we ended up in two episodes.

>> Ethel: Yeah. And I think the thing that I found really

interesting was like, sometimes you don't really

think, obviously you think about how like

addiction impacts people. you don't want to get to

be one of those people that's like, oh, addiction.

Can everyone gets addicted to something? Because

it's like, no, no, no. Like addictions can impact

people's lives in like really difficult ways. But

it was that reminder, that stuck with me, like

every time you feel that ur to touch your phone,

that is a similar urge to what someone feels when

they're like addicted to alcohol or drugs. That's

that impulse and it's like, wow, like I didn't

really realise how, I suppose how much of a battle

it is because something like a phone addiction is

obviously can be serious but in my life

personally, it's quite trivial. So it's just, it

was just such an opening, like eye opening moment

for me.

>> Julia: And I think with a phone addiction, I think all of

us, if we're being honest, would admit that we do

have a phone addiction. And just because it is

what, what happens in society. But like the way

she just described that was, it was just so

powerful to think of it in terms of like how

addiction impacts your day to day living as well.

>> Ethel: Yeah. But hearing also just how God showed up in

Lauren's life as well, it's just something that

I've also found quite fascinating because I think,

yeah, it's something I don't know if you've picked

up on this.

This idea of, like, the boom moments, as you like

to call them. Do you want to explain what a boom

moment is?

>> Julia: So, a boom moment is like, when God just appears

and it's just like, boom. God is there, present in

your life. You can feel his presence. He changes

your life and he impacts it in such a huge way

that it's really easy to define the moment that

happened. And then I talk about it as little tick

moments for most of us, like, we're just keeping

going in our daily life, particularly if you've

grown up Christian or Catholic. for me, I've grown

up as a cradle Catholic, so I feel like. I feel

God's presence like little ticks where, like, it

seems like a puzzle piece just slides into place

rather than this big boom moment.

>> Ethel: So I was actually reading a book by, Pete Greig.

He basically wrote this book called How To Hear

God. And in it he talks about how Jesus appears to

St. Paul, but in a Damascus Road moment. Whereas

there's the two people that he approaches on the

road to Emmaus, and they're two different

encounters in how he appears. So you could

describe, like, the Damascus Road experience like

a boom moment, but actually, we often forget how

Jesus reveals himself, sometimes slowly and in

conversation and in meals and. Do you know what I

mean? Like, it's. I think that's something that

I'm like, wow. Like, I'm always waiting for God to

show up in a boom moment. But how much have I

missed out on God walking with me and talking with

me and laughing with me and asking me questions?

And those are the moments where he's appeared.

>> Julia: And when you look at the Gospels, that is what

Jesus mainly did. Like, he did mainly just spend

time with people, having those conversations,

having meals. He did. Like, he did have the

miracles, but actually, probably the moments he

changed people's lives more were in those. Those

conversations. I think the challenge for me, and

we were talking about this earlier, is when I was

about 18, I really struggled with how often people

who were put on stages to share their testimony

were just talking about those boom moments or

those Damascus moments. And as a younger person

who had, as I said, grown up in my faith, I didn't

necessarily have that big boom moment. I felt like

I was doing something wrong. Like. Or not. Maybe

not, maybe not wrong, but something that maybe I

wasn't good enough, that I didn't have, like, God

showing up, boom, in my life. But as I've got

older, I've realised Actually, more people have

those smaller moments of where God shows up rather

than these big moments. It's just people on, when

they're coming to share their testimonies, it's

easier to share those bigger moments. And I just

think one of the reasons I love this podcast is we

have those opportunities to share those stories.

>> Ethel: Yeah, yeah. And you reminded me so much of the

conversation that we had with Nisha. And just like

everyday faith, like the small moments, the

conversations that you have with people, the small

decisions that you make, like, it's almost like

St. Ignatius was onto something about seeing God

in all things. Right. Like, shocking, you know, so

it's literally like just allowing yourself the,

the, the freedom and the patience with yourself

and with God to just show up in the little thing,

or like that thing Veronica was talking about, to

notice the fingerprints of God, like, on your life

and stuff like that. So I, I think that's been a

really interesting and poignant theme that has,

like, been in the last few episodes that we've

done.

>> Julia: And you messaged me over the weekend about. You

were reading something about the examen. And one

of the things I love about the Examen is that. So

the Examen is a daily prayer where you reflect on

your day and what's gone well and, what's well and

what you're looking forward to. And you can do it

slightly differently, depending, and there's lots

of different resources for it. But what. I think

if you do it regularly enough, you start to see

God in all things, but share what you were very

excited about.

>> Ethel: Yeah, it was so this kind of, like, stemmed off,

like, the conversation with Edwin around the idea

of, like, you're like, in a reflection and looking

inward. And funnily enough, it was actually in

that, that same book with Pete Greig, How to Hear

God, where he talks about, like, the Examen

Obviously he's kind of approaching it from like a

Protestant point of view, the beauty of Ignatian

spirituality, that seeing God in all things and

having those moments where you look inwardly is

like, obviously a thread of this podcast, but a

thread of just life with Christ.

>> Julia: Right. But Lauren from Hidden Catholic, she kind

of shares some of that with her own experience of,

deciding to leave the tech world and going into,

doing tours of what happens in the Catholic world.

Like, it wasn't for she woke up one morning and

thought, God is calling me to this. It was more

that she was doing it and she was sharing about

how she took some family members, including her

mother in law, on a tour and then her mother in

law was like, well have you considered maybe this

is what you should do? And even then she, it took

her a few minutes to be like, is this what God is

calling her to? Rather than she felt God's voice

going, go set up Hidden Catholic.

>> Ethel: Yeah, I mean I found that conversation with

Lauren, Hidden Catholic Lauren also very

challenging because this idea of like I, first of

all I loved how she was just very much like a.

I've always talked about my faith. I'm not going

to shy away from it because I think sometimes,

especially when you go into like into normal work

life, right. I mean we both work for Catholic

organisations so like we know that it's easy to

talk about what you've done at the weekend to talk

about mass, talk about Jesus and all these other

things, but how do you then go into like a non

faith context and talk about your faith? And she's

just like, just do it. Just in little moments,

just be like, yeah, I was at mass this weekend or

yeah, you know, me and my church family went to do

this and it's like, it's those moments.

>> Julia: Yeah. And I think when she was sharing about it, I

am very aware, I think I even said it on the

episode. Like I've worked in Catholic or Christian

organisations but I know a lot of people who

haven't and I've heard them say about how it takes

a lot of confidence just to say when someone was

like, how was your weekend to choose to say I,

went to Mass or I went to church? and I think

sometimes we just have to push ourselves a bit

more to be able to say that. I also say that

knowing that I do work for a Catholic

organisation, so. But I do have other contacts.

Like yeah, ah, I have friends who aren't Catholic

or Christian. Obviously they know I am. But I have

to push myself to be a little bit more confident

to just speak about how my m. Faith changes me.

>> Ethel: And I think there is something about like just

being honest about that part of your life that one

lets you live more like authentically to who God

has created you to be. But people do see a

difference in you. I remember having a

conversation with someone and she was like, I

thought you're religious, right? And I was like oh

yes I am. And then we just had a really

interesting conversation about faith and she had

grown up Catholic but had kind of, I suppose

walked away from the faith in general just because

of some disappointment and also just the

regularity after her grandma passed away that she

just didn't go to Mass anymore. Wasn't really in

the Catholic world that much. so she still has

questions and things about faith. And me having

been explicit about, like, yes, I'm going to

church this weekend, helped us have those

conversations about faith in a completely

refreshing way to me, because I'm like, oh, I

could talk forever about faith. Like, let's talk

about. I'm happy to talk about faith. Whereas,

maybe she kind of felt like she didn't know how to

approach it. But I guess being honest and being

bold and being confident and being, like, brave to

even just slip that into conversation can actually

be something that helps you also bless and help

other people along their journey.

>> Julia: Yeah, that's so true. I was just thinking about

that. How daunting it must be if you have a

question about faith and you either come from a

lapse background or no background, just to have

the confidence to ask that question. But if

someone of faith, if we are. If we make it clear

that we are happy to have those conversations,

then people are more likely to join in. I was just

thinking, about my friend Joseph, who was the

priest at one of the priests at our wedding. And,

during that evening, he got a lot of conversations

from people who were not of faith or, asking him a

lot of questions. And I guess my. I say this in a

way of. We leave a lot of responsibility on our

priests or our church leaders, but actually it's.

It's a responsibility for all of us to step up

and.

>> Ethel: Do you sound like Christine Allen? That's

basically what she was saying in that conversation

when we talked about women in the leadership. This

idea of, like, we put way too much, not just

pressure, but we almost. What's the word? Not

offset. We. We delegate our responsibility to

priests and other people in leadership roles

within the church, when actually, like, we're all

called to be the hands and feet of Christ.

>> Julia: Yeah, we're all called to be the hands and feet of

Christ. And I. I guess it's always good to be

reminded of that as well, particularly from

Christine, who in her professional life, she is

Christine, the director of CAFOD, Catholic Agency

of Overseas Development. But she also spoke about.

In her. In her life in the parish, she just tries

to be just Christine.

>> Ethel: Yeah, she's. No, Christine is great. But what are

kind of your reflections? Because I know you've

got that relationship with Christine, as in, she

was the head. She is the head of Cafford, where

you used to. But also just as a woman in lay

leadership. What's that like Kind of having

conversations with women who are being the hands

and feet of Christ but in a very like high, role.

>> Julia: Yeah. I think one of the things that. And I said

it in, in the episode that will stay with me is

when you become a personality figure like

Christine does as the director of CAFOD, it's how

do you stay authentically yourself and more

authent authentically who God is calling you to

be. And I think interviewing her you just get like

when you talk with Christine, she is just so

authentically herself. She's just Christine. And I

think that was a real good reminder to myself of

how do I just be just Julia.

>> Ethel: Yeah.

>> Julia: And not be Julia, the presenter of Thinking Faith,

this Things I Wish I Knew podcast. and how do I

still stay authentically who God is calling me to

be? Now I say this hopefully from a humble place.

I'm not saying that I'm now a big personality

myself where I would say Christine is, but it's

just how, how do you stay in that zone where like

for example, when I come to the Young Adult Mass,

because I do a lot of the talking at the front of

church, a lot of people know who I am or recognise

my face, but I haven't had like a proper one to

one conversation or I might have, but I have many

of them and so it's being. It was just a good

reminder that. Of not becoming too big headed in.

In it and becoming a more this is who I am

professionally and this is who I am personally and

like making those merge together. M. Does that

make any sense?

>> Ethel: It makes perfect sense. Yeah. No, it's true. And I

think there was also just something like, just

like you say Christine is just so 100% Christine,

but it was also really interesting hearing her

talk about the fact that she has to make the point

of when it's time to be Christine Allen, the

director of Cafford, that's a different hat. But

on a Sunday, she's Christine who does the music.

>> Julia: I love that.

>> Ethel: That is just such a. First of all inspiring

because I think she's really at what she does and

how she does it and juggles those two roles.

Right. But also it's just like what you're saying

there, that reminder of like, obviously you have

to mentally be in two different spaces when you do

those roles. Like she can't be just like, oh, I'll

do the music if I want to. Like when she's

director Christine. Right. But there is just

something about like God's grace and like

blessings for both of those roles, but just the

way that she's able to honour God in both of those

roles too.

>> Julia: I also should add that Cafford, or at least when I

was there, we quite, There would be masses on,

like, certain days, and Christine was always,

like, the first to be part of the music group and

just be there, like, singing along.

>> Ethel: Oh, so she still is Christine who does the music.

>> Julia: I had that flashback when you said it, but, Yeah,

but also that is part of her just being Christine.

Right. Like, she's not like, well, I can't do the

music here because I need to be director. She's

joining it as well.

>> Ethel: Yeah.

So what would you say then, Julia? I'm going to be

the one who turns the mic on you. What are the

things that you feel like you learned so far?

>> Julia: so last time we talked about that real sense of

community, and I think there's still that theme

coming up.

>> Ethel: Like the chat with Nicky.

>> Julia: Yeah. And I think the more. I think because I have

this privilege of this podcast and hearing

people's storeys, the more I'm hearing the need

for community and authentic community. And I've

been thinking about that in lots of ways in terms

of parishes I've been involved in and stuff. but I

think for me, it's coming back to what I've kind

of just said about Christine, about how am I

authentically being who I'm called to be. And I

think that also comes back to those boom moments

or tick moments. I think I, It's so easy. It's

much easier for me to look back at my life and see

where God's presence was than necessarily while I

was living in that moment. And I don't. I don't

think God is calling me to be a. To have these

boom moments. He's calling me to be. Have the

Emmaus moments, as you were talking about before,

and just walk beside him. And I guess it's like

that footprint prayer where it's like when they

look back at your life and the guys, like, at, the

hardest times, there's only one foot set of

footprints, but the rest of the time there's two.

And then he felt like God had abandoned him. And

actually what God said was, that's when I picked

you up, I carried you in these moments. And it's

about remembering that. That, like, God is always

there with us, always walking beside us. And in

the hardest times, he's carrying us through those.

Mom. But at the same time, we need to be who. Who

he is calling us to be as well.

>> Ethel: I think mine's similar. My reflection is similar

in the sense that I need to allow myself the grace

to make mistakes. Yes. But in the sense of like, I

can sometimes be crippled with decision making,

but actually knowing that you can spot the

fingerprints of God. Throughout my life, so much

when I've struggled to make decisions, but I've

just done it and it's like, just trust that God's

going to be with you wherever. It's not like a one

set plan. And I think that's what I've picked up

from the conversations from a lot of people is the

idea of like, you can go either way and God's

going to be with you, but you just have to trust

that you know, like what you're saying there. In

those hard moments, God will be carrying you or

walking alongside you. And it can be in those sort

of quieter moments and not necessarily waiting for

a big boom moment of like, do this, Ethel, now go

here. Like, it's like, no, no, no. It's just keep

trusting and keep walking.

>> Julia: And I think not just from the podcast, but that a

life, lesson I've learned in life. I remember

again being 18, 19, 20, those university days of

being like, I know God has a plan for me and I

need to do exactly that plan. And if I get it

wrong, I have like derailed messed up. And it was

actually because we talked about it, Ruth being my

spiritual director before, and she was like, do

you think you're so big that you can mess up God's

plan? And when it was put, that phrase was put at

me that way, I was like, no, I'm not that big to

mess up God's plans.

>> Ethel: I'm just a girl.

>> Julia: And as you said, God might put two or three paths

in front of you and you choose one and he's still

going to walk beside you in that path or if you

chose the other one, he'd still walk with you in

that path.

>> Ethel: God is so good.

>> Julia: He is all the time. So thanks for listening to

Things I Wish I Knew. So obviously this episode

has been our reflections, but we would love to

hear yours. So please do get in contact. You can

write to me at J Corcoran, so that's

jcorcoran@thinkingfaith.org and you can find out

more about these themes we've discussed

today at thinkingfaith.org. But you can also find

us on Instagram.

>> Ethel: Tiwik that's @tiwik_pod

>> Julia: Thank you again for listening. And I hope you'll

join us next time on Things I Wish I Knew.