[SPEAKER_00]: Hey everybody, JJ Cooper, John Meoli here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Another of the baseball America Prospect podcast, Deep Dives, and today, we are getting into deep and diving in to the Baltimore Orioles Farm System.

[SPEAKER_00]: John does the Orioles Top 34 us.

[SPEAKER_00]: John, great to see you as always and talk about a fascinating offseason.

[SPEAKER_00]: a fascinating season last year, not in the way that the Orioles would have liked, but it was from the outside, at least it was fascinating.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then in off season that I would say was fascinating, in some ways that probably more Orioles fans, some like and probably some are still a little bit skeptical about, but a big significant off season, big free agent signings, big trades, big moves,

[SPEAKER_00]: And still as we're sitting here recording this during spring training, a whole lot of, okay, how is everything going to shake out?

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say at the same time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But great to see you kind of take me through like what the offseason like was like, you know, someone following this team.

[SPEAKER_00]: It felt like that there was twist turns and everything in between.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we got a lot of, you know, even from the 2024 playoff exit, you know, Mike Elias said they were going to do a lot of soul searching as to why they kept getting sucked out of the playoffs and what they were going to do to change it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That line came back after he fired Brandon Hyde in May.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I've been on the high alert basically for the last year, then a half about, okay, like what is actually going to be different?

[SPEAKER_01]: And it started basically the day after the season ended.

[SPEAKER_01]: He said at his end of season press conference that he wanted the Orioles to be a team that people thought like people like you and I, people who were right about talk about are around baseball inside baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, people in front of offices and his beard.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted the Orioles to be a team that

[SPEAKER_01]: People thought could win the AL East and they were not that kind of team last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So just the idea that

[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted that to be the case.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is something I've lashed on to pretty early on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just that he wanted that to be the case.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a front office that has done a lot of unpopular things and done things their way and put their blinders on and done what they thought was best to have an off season where people would think this team that was one of the most disappointing probably ever in baseball would be the a team that could win a division that is sending teams to the world series pretty regularly.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to do a lot of big stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have to do splashy stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought there was only one way to free hints of fulfill that, and I was kind of wondering how that would happen, and then they went out and traded pretty smarter against each other.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ward, they go out and sign ran Hellsley as their clothes are before the closer market starts.

[SPEAKER_01]: The, the, you know, they miss out on Kyle Schwabler and they pivot to Peter Lanzo and all of a sudden they have their marquee free agent, they've kept and then there's if that all wasn't crazy enough, they do what people have done for I've been asking them to do for The better part of this decade and package of lunch or prospects for a controllable starting picture and Shane Bosn all of a sudden you have an office season that's completely outside of their Norm and you have one, you know, I'm we're splitting hairs over a couple of projected winds.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's going to bat an eye if you say this team can compete at the top of the A. L. East, which makes them one of the best teams in the American League by extension.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he started out, he laid the marker down and I think there's, I think that in a way that's very unfamiliar to people around here in Baltimore, he kind of, he kind of met that challenge.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we will get more into it as we go along.

[SPEAKER_00]: But speaking of that, they also do have, we saw the end of last season.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the Orioles.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be arrivals, but the arrivals last, the end of last season, one of them was one of the most anticipated in a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: Famous Basayo is the number one.

[SPEAKER_00]: The question we always start this with is, how difficult is the decision?

[SPEAKER_00]: This one's an easy one of them, actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even though Dylan Beaver's had a great, you know, great arrival and all that great breakout season in uh, 25, but Samo Bassayo, Samo Bassayo, if you're an Orioles fan listening to this and you're saying I've heard a lot about prospects and what is has to secure stead doing and I'm still not sure about Colton Couser and Kobe Mayo doesn't have a, you know, established job and all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Samobasayo fits in kind of I would say that tier of if it doesn't work out for him, I'll be shocked because maybe he's not a catcher.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see, I think you might be able to catch, but as far as the hit or as far as doing damage, especially at the age he is right now, there's a lot here to like, isn't there?

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a ton here to like, and that was a separated that, you know, I think the talent wise, you could make the case just straight up on tools and projection, but he is that he's above don't be worth it.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is so.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's so young, he's so percosious.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're talking about the types of performances, the types of kind of precedents that, you know, handfuls of guy, like only a handful of guys do what he did in the minors and movies quickly as he did.

[SPEAKER_01]: And as long as much as he did at the ages and levels he did, like a handful of guys will do that over the course of a decade.

[SPEAKER_01]: And for the Orioles to have,

[SPEAKER_01]: for the Orioles to have kind of pushed that along and let him stay in the places he needed to stay and let him move quickly in the places he needed to move quickly from it really speaks to a good understanding of him as a player, him as a prospect, as a person.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think back to this time last year and we're coming off a, we would be coming off a year when he's been most of the year at AA and people, you know, we're talking about him struggling and it was like in 800 OPS, it was like most people his age and his profile are not doing that at that level and that was a quote unquote bad year for him.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I think I think there might have been a little bit, you know, if you're grading solely and evaluating solely based on what happened in the big leagues, you know, Dylan Beaver's was

[SPEAKER_01]: was kind of just loose and allowed to play and played freely.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think given the PPI incentive, Sam Lobasayo was very clearly on an at-back count and that I think when you only get to play every other day and you know you're only going to get a certain amount of at-bats and you're that age and trying to make an impression even with the contract extension already locked in.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to produce that way.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's having his first healthy spring training.

[SPEAKER_01]: in years and and I'm pretty fascinating to see how he is fit into this line up because whether it's behind the play at the age there's there's going to be a need for him and and he's a kind of guy where if this starts out well it's not going to stop going well.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the next question I want to ask with it, which is, okay, obviously, we know right now they do not need the same oversight to catch 130 games this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no scenario that's a good one for the Orgles, like Adley Rushman is still here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I know Adley Rushman did not have the season that anyone including Adley Rushman wanted to have last year, but this at most would be I would imagine a job share and probably

[SPEAKER_00]: how much like when I watched the style and I talked to people last year, I do want to emphasize, I don't feel like that this is one of those things where you have the bat first catcher who everyone says, yeah, he might be able to catch, but then they, you know, under that breath or like, oh, he's never going to catch.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a guy who, what, what do you think the chances are that Samuel Bessillo is a short term catcher and then what do you think the chances are that he's a long term catcher?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I think if he catches

[SPEAKER_01]: a third of the games this year, and that's being, you know, that's a little less that somewhere between catching like two turns out of the rotation and one turn more likely to.

[SPEAKER_01]: That feels fine to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he can, he's adequate at it.

[SPEAKER_01]: One thing the Orioles seemed to have kind of lashed onto last year was he seemed to have a good rapport with Trevor Rodgers.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not sure we're going to go like a personal catcher situation, but

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's a day that could, if they wanted to do that and kind of keep down that road, that would be a really easy way to ensure he's catching at least one day.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's anything about his skills that would say that he can't catch a couple days a week in the big leagues.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now he is a man with human being and in the most he would be he's massive and I don't mean that in the bad way, you know that profile is not one that you see staying behind.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully for a long time, I don't think there's anything to say that he's going to outgrow it quickly.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just kind of something you assume will happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: That said, if he, you know, if he puts his mind to saying, I don't care, I'm just going to stay behind the plate, like he's this kind of person that's going to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But as you're talking about that, you know,

[SPEAKER_01]: There is nothing more dangerous as a concept than when evaluators or people around the game tell you that a catcher is getting better and the miners will say, well of course they're all they're working on at it every single day.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure if I've heard it like a handful of times about a handful of guys you've heard it a hundred times about hundreds of guys it's like it's such a hard thing to take you know to put any kind of it's a hard thing to not believe but it

[SPEAKER_01]: I think, especially now, the Orioles have Craig Alburn as a former catcher all the way up to AAA in the race system.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Joe Singley is their catching instructor.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is very well regarded in terms of what he's able to do like on the technical side catching wise and then hand-congers on the coaching staff as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have, there's a lot of people who are going to be working with them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's also going to be an incentive to catch him because

[SPEAKER_01]: has worn down basically each of the last three seasons and the less he catches the better he's going to be long-term.

[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing I would say with that is if you want to get besides back in the lineup, I've been obviously he's going to de-h some, but

[SPEAKER_00]: first base, which is somewhere that had been talked about in the past, like maybe you could play some first base.

[SPEAKER_00]: Petalonzo, if he's healthy, Petalonzo does not leave the field.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we have seen this, I know he's getting a little older, but Petalonzo prides himself that when the season's over, there's a one-six, you know, and the game's plate starts with six, one-six.

[SPEAKER_00]: It may be one-six-zero, one-six-one-one-six-two, but he's not someone who's like, oh, I'm gonna take a day off every other week, or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously they have Ryan Mountcastle.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have a bazillion outfielders.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have Kobe Mayo.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the point being is is if he, we both think that he's going to catch.

[SPEAKER_00]: If he can't catch, then all of a sudden at bats, not either for him or someone else, become a lot more scarce.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a lot of guys, there's a lot of mouths to feed.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're trying to figure out how they all fit in that lineup I would imagine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Kobe Mayo has been playing basically.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've my home now is home for there for the first week of spring training.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kobe Mayo is playing exclusively third base after basically giving up the position in the middle of last season.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I didn't see Sam Albasayo doing any first base work.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it seems like their solution to that problem is to just

[SPEAKER_01]: run the other direction and say we don't have too many people who are first-based at DHS look this guy's at their base when this guy's a catcher and that's not to say that none of those things are true but you know they went through the offseason there's a lot of guys you know I think some of the names you mentioned are you know in Ryan Mountcastle and Kobe May you wonder where they're going where their spots going to be given that Peter Lanzo is now here given Sam Elbassai on Adley Restaurant are going to be in line up as DHS when they're not catching

[SPEAKER_01]: Baseball has a way of giving you opportunities to figure that out in ways you can't even imagine.

[SPEAKER_01]: The first week of Royals, Camp Jordan, Westburg, and Jackson Holiday go down in all of a sudden.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kobe Mayo, you are now a third basement and let's figure out a way to get all these guys in the lineup.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that actually kind of ties into our next question, which is how system better or worse than last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that has happened with this system right now is a lot of these guys have graduated.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just hit it with Mayo.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that this is, I don't want to say the last opportunity, but this is the opportunity, if he's ever going to be a third baseman, and I don't Westburg when Westburg's healthy is going to be a better third baseman, probably defensively.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this is his chance to hit,

[SPEAKER_00]: And show he can, you know, he's got this window here where it's like better claim it because if not, then I think that that window gets that it becomes a very narrow opening pretty quickly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because once he's back, once holidays back, we just talked about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not exactly a whole lot of first base opportunities there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, Mayo, not that Mayo had actually shown yet that you could be really comfortable putting them over there at first base.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was still a question too.

[SPEAKER_00]: When you look at this organization as a whole, how is it different?

[SPEAKER_00]: How is it changed over the last year?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it is definitely less top heavy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think back to the, I mean, I'm, I imagine the top handful of guys this year, the top handful of guys last year too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of a, a false dichotomy.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think what we have seen now is the, is the, is the evolution of this being an organization where you could look at the top 100 lists and and pick out the names with the word Orioles next to them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that represented

[SPEAKER_01]: 90% of their prospect value really you know there were some pictures who who didn't get you know who weren't In that mix who turned out to be better than people expected

[SPEAKER_01]: But by and large this was an organization who the top handful of picks every year were hitters and those hitters were good and got here got to the big leagues quickly and there is not a thing wrong with that they were trying to turn the ship around as fast as possible it worked out very well.

[SPEAKER_01]: What we have seen over the last year especially with the deadline trades last year and and a really and a draft in which they had four of the top thirty some picks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and we have much money to spend as basically anybody.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and a ton of money to spend.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have seen a broadening out of this system.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that has honestly been a long time coming.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think a couple of things have factored into that.

[SPEAKER_01]: The trades obviously helped.

[SPEAKER_01]: They are now three years into kind of this iteration of their pitching program and I think it's really starting to click.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if I had a dollar for every time I said, this was the year that it was going to start appearing in came in there that have like $4 so so you know, eventually it's going to happen, but.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a system that is much deeper than it has been.

[SPEAKER_01]: There were people who I went into this process thinking were slam dunks to me in the top 10 who were in the mid to late teens because there's just not, you know, and it's not, you know, all these things end up being preference and splitting hairs.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in the past, I've had a lot of trouble.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've had a lot of trouble in like the eight nine 10 range because all of a sudden it just falls off that fall off happened at like 17 18 19 this year and I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's at some point they were doing these they're having their meetings the off season the team and there was like wait a second we have 20 top 10 prospects and it's like that's not.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's me know because there's only 10 but you could have you could put those 20 names you know outside the top two in basically any order and come up with a list that.

[SPEAKER_01]: you weren't going to feel ashamed of.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll put it this way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Draw on Watts Brown before they made the boss trade.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if we go back, you know, to when they still had the slater to bronze and the Caden bow dines and all, but Michael Ferret, but when they did Jackson Watts Brown was 19 on this list.

[SPEAKER_00]: Levi Wells was 18.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those are guys who, like you said, it would not have been that long ago that you would have been thinking when you got to 9 or 10 like, yeah, okay, where does this guy fit now even after this they're still, you know, they're still in the middle of the teens, even after they traded away a significant number of prospects to bring back Shane bought, you know, the in the Shane boss trade, but.

[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that stands out here will get to some of these players is they've also now started to have kind of those lower level like you said.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jackson holiday emerges when Gunner Henderson emerges.

[SPEAKER_00]: Gunner was not a first pick, but he was a well-paid supplemental.

[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't something where it's like, wow, where do they find this guy?

[SPEAKER_00]: Nate George is, wow, where did they find this guy?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Estabon Mejia, Louis Staleon coming up, not that those again were out of completely out of nowhere, but that's again.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not the same thing as we picked one.

[SPEAKER_00]: We picked two, we picked three.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we said here, this the top probably in the draft is going to be our guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a little bit more of that deepening of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's like where I think

[SPEAKER_00]: is going to be really interesting this year, because you're going to see probably the top two asylum bevers, if they don't bevers was right here about an inch from graduating last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: The silo, as you said, was very very carefully done to make sure that he's still eligible, PPI picking all, but those guys are graduating.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tray Gibson is kind of their, I would say,

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, prominent pitching prospect who might be the one who actually keeps you from getting that dollar next year of, you know, the next year will be the year because maybe he's the one or maybe there's a couple other guys, but after that I do feel like that there's a number of guys here who you could say, okay, some of the draft picks from last year, some of the guys who started to emerge last year, there's a lot of different paths to like who could be the top prospects in this organization a year for now, I feel like.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and you know my mind and this is this is very like Orioles coded, but I feel like

[SPEAKER_01]: Even as all this stuff is happening, I have a weird feeling that one of the guys who were remaining from last year's draft from the first day, where the Icaires for Viva Loy, it seems like those are the types that they are going to.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just have a feeling that you can't say that an organization is due, basically their first day picks just shoot through the miners and like end up on top 100 picks or on top 100

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that those are archetypes and the types of players who can just go out and have one of those Colton cows are play three levels and put yourself on the map thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many options.

[SPEAKER_01]: All those pictures you mentioned, Nate George, if Nate George ends up in AAA and has any kind of season like he did this year and he's still at that age.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about somebody that's hard to do as anything other than an impact

[SPEAKER_01]: you know, five two outfuelers.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's there's just a ton of, I've done this exercise before and I'm hesitant to give out a name because I just forgot who I said, but um, but um, and I don't want to have, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, there's, there's just a ton of, I've done this exercise before and and I'm hesitant to give out a name because I just forgot who I said, but um, but um, and I don't want to have.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll make the case for George and not that because just because I find him fascinating right and he is a fascinating like a high school pick again credit to Scouting development all this Nate George, but like this is a later round this is a day three pick out of high school not a whole lot of teams there were teams on it, but not a ton or else did a really good job also being aware of kind of the signability there.

[SPEAKER_00]: comes in and basically has one of those, where did this come from seasons last year?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is there are a few players that I would say that I had more fun watching games of last year, the Nate George.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was just telling you before we started here, I was going back and watching, you know,

[SPEAKER_00]: hop on synergy and it's like, there's the Nate George play where he hits the ball, hard hit grounder to the third baseman and it hits off the third baseman and flies through the air and the second baseman feels it and thinks about making a throw.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's one, that's something in your odd one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then there's the next play not long after it where it's

[SPEAKER_00]: The source stop goes two steps to his left, feels about cleanly makes the throw a Nate George beats it because Nate George, not only can fly is an eight runner at his best, but also gives you the hardest 90, you know, like you're ever going to see over and over and over or where you rarely see him not play basically as if he's playing his last game ever, and he wants to make sure that he leaves it all on the field.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of part of his seems like

[SPEAKER_00]: The interesting thing to see is, is like with him is, he does not pull the ball in the air right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like his swing is very much, he's a right-handed hitter who, at his best, is lining the ball to right field.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or hitting the ball on the ground to the left side of the infield.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that, like we'll have to see if that develops.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I will say, if you're going to be that kind of player, and it doesn't develop, and he's very young.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it could, but if not, have these other skills, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like be a Justin Crawford type with the fillies who's going to be in the Big League's probably this year, where you're like, he does everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: He hits 320 every year and every level he goes.

[SPEAKER_00]: He can run, he can play in the outfield.

[SPEAKER_00]: He just can't hit for power.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of like the,

[SPEAKER_00]: The Nate George like it doesn't come together is he runs really well.

[SPEAKER_00]: He'll fly around the outfield.

[SPEAKER_00]: He'll steal bases, although he doesn't need to figure out sometimes yes, sometimes hold off a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just find him fascinating.

[SPEAKER_00]: But again, he's one of like you could we could have this same kind of conversation like you said about Ike Irish who was one of the best hitters in the SEC last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: We could have this conversation about Luis De Leon who is a really intriguing

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, has just the filthiest stuff out there if you could throw strikes, this will be my prospect at some point and that was something that came up and not to cut you off.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was something that came up in this process.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, you know, everything that that was out there on him was real.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just,

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just that you put it you wait for it to kind of click and like once it does click everyone's going to know because it's going to happen like he's going to be in the big leagues like that, you know, and I think there was just and there was an interest at least internally of like making sure it was kind of apparent that that was not going to happen and, you know, in May and as is that right in the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is their right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was in rookie ball at that time, I guess, because, yeah, because Josh saw for us in the complex league, I want to say in May.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he's not, you know, I'm, I'm fast and you see how they handle it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't imagine he's going to pitch more than once a week.

[SPEAKER_01]: He pitched 50 innings last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're still trying to scale that, but you don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: you don't take that kind of skill set lately.

[SPEAKER_01]: And just the fact that we're having this conversation about how many different archetypes profiles versus like this guy was so first they shortstop who hits it's a ball really hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: This guy was the first they outfielded with the ball really hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was a great college player and he's going to be on the Orioles in an hour and a half.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just the fact that we're not having that conversation we're having conversation about

[SPEAKER_01]: such a vast kind of swath of talent.

[SPEAKER_01]: It really speaks to, you know, it speaks to a lot of the evolution that's happened around here.

[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing I'll say, the has to, because the other thing that's true here, I know they had it down your last year, but this is not a team that should be picking one, two, three, four, or five anytime again soon.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't get to say, okay, we think the Adley Rushman is clearly the number one pick.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Rock Chalowski's really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Orioles aren't gonna have a chance to get Rock Chalowski.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is not the team of a a few years ago that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I did want to ask about one other guy in the, because when we talk about like the the log jam out the upper levels, it's kind of lessen the little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's more of the guys who've already graduated, but there is one exception of that, which is, I want to assume that Enrique Bradfield starts to year at AAA and where it gets tough is finding how he fits.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, obviously, the great thing for him is a little different skill set than most of their

[SPEAKER_00]: but is this probably a whole other year at Triple A for him barring injury or how do you think it kind of, built route?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's an opportunity for him to come up at some point this year.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think, I definitely don't think he's going to get the Ryan Mount Castle 2019 like you are going to play every single day of the season in Triple A and we'll talk to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll talk to you in October.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be really fascinating because it is such a unique skill set.

[SPEAKER_01]: If this team is where they want to be towards the end of the season, there's no one else that can do what he can in a, in a, you know, even a bench like, like, game roll, they're, they're outfield doesn't make a ton of sense now looking at it in April, but I also doesn't matter who's going to come off the bench as a defense replacement in, you know, sitting here and spring training, but like he would be such an asset to have.

[SPEAKER_01]: felt weird about having ranked lower this year than last year.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is somebody who has done exactly what he's been asked to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is improving the things that need to be improved on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Significantly, this kind of goes back to the, is the catcher getting better behind the plate thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like of course they're getting better for enough for it to matter.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's another question.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he's his ground roll ball rate falls every year.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's hitting the ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: on a line over the infield more often.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what you need to do because even as fast as him, you can't just hit the ball on the ground and beat it out once you get into the high miners and the big leagues.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's guys who are able to feel that ball and throw you out.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the Orioles have a very high opinion of his potential value.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they

[SPEAKER_01]: Jorge Mateo is on this team for years because he played really good shortstop defense and their estimation and could steal bases and he would hit for like three weeks out of every year and that would be kind of the dream he'd hold onto, but at its best that was a valuable player for the Orioles.

[SPEAKER_01]: They understand that profile can be valuable.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Enrique Bradfield Jr's going to be better than

[SPEAKER_01]: or himateo, but I think every time I wonder how is this going to work, I remember that that they have found a way to keep a player who can do the things and in Recaprad field does really well on the roster because they think it matters and that's kind of how I've always had to frame this.

[SPEAKER_00]: right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, like you said, if they're in the playoff hunt, it's hard to imagine not on the playoff roster because his ability to pinch Ron and then also stay in as a defensive replacement, if they've got the lead is valuable enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now the question is, is where does how is he carve a path to regular, you know, being a regular?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the different story, maybe, but that's, again, that's he is a very unique skill set.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is an eight runner, because steel bases and can also give you exceptional outfield defense, not a bad combo to have.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he could be like, he could be, sorry, he could be like, you know, when he was first coming up, this is after his first draft year, you know, everyone's sitting around during BP and Aberdeen, I believe, and someone was like, he's going to be like a two-in player that you're like, how did this even happen?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're watching him on a daily basis and you're looking at his, you know, fan grasp page and you're like, what's going on here?

[SPEAKER_01]: But he's making an impact on their value and like,

[SPEAKER_01]: That would be, you know, I'm sure the Orals would take that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure he would take that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there's no one's giving up on the offensive impact, but he can make an impact in so many other ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look it again.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know Pete Crow Armstrong has way more power, but look at what Pete Crow Armstrong's year will ask you was with the power, but also, thunderstorms out, not a great batting average, not a great on base percentage, but just look at how much defensive value he gave the cubs.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard for me not to look at that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you are this good at defender, look at what Sedan Raffi Ella has done for the Red Sox.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're this good at defender in center, the bar offensively is not nearly as high to produce real value.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be fun to watch.

[SPEAKER_00]: But well, that's going to end the video portion on the YouTube side.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you want to see more, if you're on the podcast side, stick around, but if you're not, go check out the podcast feed because we're going to dive into some, we said this is a really deep system.

[SPEAKER_00]: After this break, we're going to look at guys outside of the top 10.

[SPEAKER_00]: So John, looking past the top 10, like we said, this is a,

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a list past the top 10 that would be guys who would have been in many cases at the back of the 10 last year, who are a couple of guys who stand out to you that you're kind of like, oh, when you're writing them up, you're like, wow, this guy's not a top 10 prospect here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, gosh, Boston Baton, that was an easy one.

[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't, you know, you get bored of games and like August and you're sitting there behind home play.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you don't want to watch anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to take me in order to know it's and you start just writing down every game of the system.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to rank and he was always in the top 10 in those in that, you know, like a tear guys out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was always in that mix for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: and it kind of became clear that other guys just were viewed in higher esteem than him and these things happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things that are tricky about kind of evaluating him and seeing him is that he made significant gains from being drafted by the podres to being traded by the Orioles in terms of velocity in terms of pitchability.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of stuff that

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the Orioles picked up on, and we're like, this is a pretty rare combination of age, even though he's massive, projectability, stuff, you know, velocity from the left side for a teenager.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they,

[SPEAKER_01]: obviously pounced on that and then he comes over in the trade and he looks like somebody who's in the last month of his first full season of professional baseball.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard to you know hold your velocity for that long.

[SPEAKER_01]: You show me a you show me a high school drafty pitcher and I'll show you somebody who gets tired and August and I think I think that you know I don't think I under ranked him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think I just kind of I think that

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that was like a little splash of cold water on on the Boston Bateman buzz that kind of built around the trade, but the idea that he's not on the top 10 prospects given he was the

[SPEAKER_01]: probably the best player they acquired and enabled those trades felt very strange to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it says anything about him and his prospects, you know, he's going to be somebody I'm very interested to see with a full off season with a year working with the Orioles pitching program in developing, you know, a couple, you know, I'm sure he's going to end up throwing like three more pictures than he did this time last year because that's kind of how they do

[SPEAKER_01]: They get these guys get the high end.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: You now throw a splitter in a cutter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: And once you master them, you can leave.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really fascinating to see him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Dr. Onwax Brown was another interesting one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who you kind of brought up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that is a big leak slider.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I've ever seen one of my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the last one I would flag is, is Erin Astrada, who's doing things on the infield.

[SPEAKER_01]: At least as a hitter, who is that are the types of things that get prospects.

[SPEAKER_01]: ranked highly and, you know, he is somebody who we could be sitting here on the all-star break and he could be, you know, he could be intripley already and like having put up like a 900 OPS and in double A and everyone's saying, what is this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, excuse me, it's probably second base only, I know, but it's a switch hit like high contact profile, it's a lot of line drives, it'll be stretched because it's hard to play only second base.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a lot of offensive promise there, right, especially it'll be stretched because you can only use it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's only second base and almost everyone who's only second base is the guy who has to work hard to stay at second base because the reason that you're only second base is because they're like, can you play third?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, can you play short?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, can you play second?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, but yeah, I love the back running around in the outfield and and you know, there's

[SPEAKER_01]: There's, that's not exactly like a land of opportunity for you or I was considering anyways, but, but you know, if I got any feed, you know, you know, you've done this long enough, you know, you get some feedback and some things they don't tell you, but one thing, you know, and I always take it, I always take it into consideration what they do to tell me.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like man, I restrated on top 10.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I don't know, I told you guys, and you know, I,

[SPEAKER_01]: I split up my calls between like here's the guys that could be in the top 10 and here's the guys that probably won't be and he was always I always I prefaced every single person I talk to inside and outside the organization.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to put this guy on top 10 I don't know how I'm gonna deal with do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I can but like

[SPEAKER_01]: again, sitting there in August, I'm like, dude, like, this is a really good bitter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I know what I'm seeing is is there, I know I'm seeing something I want to do it and I just couldn't pull the trigger.

[SPEAKER_00]: The struggle is to, to me because he's 11 and a lawyer was nine and a straw is a better hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really think that a straw is a better hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then you've got

[SPEAKER_00]: a true shortstop.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when you've got, like, that's where I get.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why this is fun, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that there is no right answer to that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's like, do you like the guy who's a second basement?

[SPEAKER_00]: Who's a better hitter?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you like the guy who's a true shortstop?

[SPEAKER_00]: And let's see how it's bat develops?

[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, when I say true shortstop, let's see how it's bat develops.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a griffo fairly either.

[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't a guy who you're like,

[SPEAKER_00]: He's a short stop.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to hit, oh, don't worry about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we were just wanting to play defense.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a guy who was solid in the SEC, but now it's like, okay, can he find another gear?

[SPEAKER_00]: The trade deadline really did.

[SPEAKER_00]: But between that, the draft, because you hit on those guys, we can spend time talking about Willfield Taylor Cruz.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think Anthony new news will pitch in the big leagues this year and help in the bullpen.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a guy, fascinating story because he was a guy who was a legitimate drafted position player failed, and you're like, oh, so they converted to a reliever that no, then he went

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you were drafted and then comes back as a pitcher, that's the, that is not a path that you see very often and he will probably hit the big leagues and then you got the Interesting international signings who kind of taken steps forward like the, you know, the hill dog goes and all where.

[SPEAKER_00]: This list, I feel like is, I would say that this list remains fascinating.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I would say even the back of it, Vance Honey cuts at the very back of this list.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's one where you say, he should be at the back of the list.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was a terrible season.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I will also say, that is something where when you look at the defense, when you look at the athleticism, if they can fix the hit tool, which is the biggest if, I mean, that's a massive if.

[SPEAKER_00]: that to have that guy be 28 one year after he was top 10, even after a minute, a really bad strike out right saw this.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's just I feel like there's a lot of, there's not a lot of guys in this list, even if you get down to the 30 where you're like, it's kind of just a generic guy that there's nothing really that interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and there were pictures that, you know, and, and I've kind of learned the cadence of how, you know, basically like every picture they draft the next year their first full season, they all pitch like 75 innings and strikeout like 10 and a half guys per nine and are.

[SPEAKER_01]: completely understandable and unremarkable and I've tried to get a couple of those pictures onto the back end of the list knowing that the next year they're going to show up with two new pictures and and and start striking the world out but it's you know the back end of this list as you mentioned and I think there's a through line here so I just want to flag this so we're talking about Vihiboloi, I like Irish, Vince Honeycutt, all very different players.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Orioles played in Aberdeen as they're high affiliate for a long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a graveyard.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know you guys do all the park effects stuff and it does adjust this, but it is a miserable place for hitters to hit.

[SPEAKER_01]: You basically have to hit tanks down the line to get it out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Everything in the gap styles, you know, guys have really been impacted by playing there.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're moving to Frederick, same league, but so they're going to face, you know,

[SPEAKER_01]: prospects from the race and the Yankees and the meds and the fillies.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very good league for pitchers, but the Orioles hitters moving from Aberdeen to Fredrick is going to make such a difference.

[SPEAKER_01]: Man's honey cut could just show up and make a little more contact and have a lot more production.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so me like the people of Lloyd, his raw power, which is

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they took batting practice on the field of caminiards and the pirates were in town and O'Neill Cruz was literally hitting the ball off the warehouse, but we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we,

[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to look so much better.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, you know, it's going to be a challenge for me as somebody who has to kind of filter this out to say, like, what's real, what's not.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's going to be a perception that a lot of these guys take a huge step forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I think a law is a really interesting one in that sense, because we're talking about in Ricky Bradfield, and even nature, of like finding guys, swing adjustments to get them a little more slog and tap into their contact ability and enhance

[SPEAKER_01]: What's deficient on those high contact low with guys, where they've had a little more struggles is the guys who hit this not out of the ball and and don't make as much contact as you want.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jud Fabian has made it pretty far.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not closing the book on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: forever, but, you know, it's a hard thing to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, so I have my advanced honey cup, but I think if there is a world where they do that with a vehicle like this is going to, it's going to look like something that is pretty remarkable is happening in Frederick this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that is a great thing to kind of, as we wrap this up, to kind of note, which is that that is going to be a very significant change.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that will be something again.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's subtle, but it's also not because I know that we are now in an era where teams are analyzing players on much more than the slash line at the same time.

[SPEAKER_00]: It does not matter how much a player is told, hey, by the way, you're expected, well, but is way higher than what your actual numbers are here because the part, it still messes with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to go up there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, wait, that says 180, three, two, 90, two, 90.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's terrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm never hit like that before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that is a hard lead to hit in period.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're basically if you stack up,

[SPEAKER_01]: other than like, you know, the teams are on the west coast who wouldn't be in that league.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of teams that do pitching really, really well in that league.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they, you see things there that you don't see in the, even like in the SBC.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're just, you're just wearing it every single day.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's a lot that's grinded on these guys in the fact that they don't have to hit an Aberdeen anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm honestly like, I've been trying to prepare people for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: but that's the perfect way to wrap it up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for the time John.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for the list and everyone listening and please like and subscribe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Leave a review, it does help other people discover us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously if you enjoyed this, check out baseballamerica.com and also the Baltimore banner, wherever John is a columnist because, you know, we, again, we're, we love covering all 30 teams and we like to give you deep insights on all of them having connections and working with people like John helps us do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: For John, I'm JJ, so long, everybody.