[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone J.J. Cooper Carlos Klausov, baseball-america draft podcast, and if you have been here, you know this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey wait, what a second.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not Carlos hosting.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're got to kind of a little bit of a new format.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know that Carlos and I did the podcast last week.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm very excited to be a regular part of it going forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: And more importantly, flipping it where I'll host because I want to hear, I think you all want to hear more about Carlos has to say that anyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Carlos is for us the one who's covering the draft the longest has been, well, I should say the longest.

[SPEAKER_00]: I guess technically I was covering it before.

[SPEAKER_00]: But.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, has been covering it the most and covering it for quite a while and obviously is the one who is most devoted to it as you all know so we're kind of flipping the format here a little bit we're looking forward to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we're diving right in because Carlos just got back from yet another.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say very productive weekend.

[SPEAKER_00]: Texas has been very good for you so far, hasn't it, Carlos?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it has.

[SPEAKER_01]: With the exception of every time I travel to Texas and come back, I'm kicking some sort of cold or travel book.

[SPEAKER_01]: So apologies if my voice is not at a hundred percent today, but in terms of the players that I've been able to see with these Texas runs, it's been tremendous.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think a week three was maybe even

[SPEAKER_01]: more impressive than a week one just in terms of the quality of the players I got to see.

[SPEAKER_01]: It really feels like between those two trips that I've seen half the first round at this point, which is a pretty impressive thing to say on Thursday, I basically hopped off the airplane and drove straight to a high school game and then after that game I went to another high school game and then it did two more after that and it was all day facing down high school players and that is a sort of run that is just not super common

[SPEAKER_01]: for me to make, it is very common for areas, scouts and scouts on the ground to do that, but it was just a lot of fun to basically follow around a scout crowd.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I had my guys down that I wanted to see, but I definitely pivoted some after hearing, like, oh, you got to go see this person.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was just a blast to do that, and then obviously sitting on global life for the rest of the weekend for Rock Chilowski.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll guess, Brino, we'll get into all that, but yeah, I had a blast to do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I'm also very happy about the podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let me just comment quickly on this.

[SPEAKER_01]: For those who have been listening to the podcast, the draft podcast specifically for the last few years, it's been, it was kind of a me and Peter show.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think as just the veteran BA podcast or I kind of naturally took over the hosting responsibilities, but it will be fun to kind of have you shepherd the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're gonna have a lot of really fun conversations.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it won't be,

[SPEAKER_01]: anything drastically different for those who've been listening.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think if you'd like to show previously, we're still really excited to talk to after every week.

[SPEAKER_01]: So looking forward to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: The biggest change you may notice is I'm planning to put this up.

[SPEAKER_00]: So up on YouTube now every week and kind of share some of the video that Carlos is getting on these trips and all that as well, stats for players, you know, little graphics and all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you have been listening on the podcast

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're like me and you like listening to podcast on TV, you know, whether during the day when you're working or whether it's at night, is you're falling asleep, stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're now going to have the YouTube option as well as the plan.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm looking forward to that as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted to say that you said like, you know, you don't often get to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't often like, yes, that is the area scout life is bouncing from game to game and figuring out how to range it, but I would say that your Thursday was a little bit more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Normally when you're doing that and when an area scout is doing that, they're going to see guys who are targets who may be a guy who is this guy going to be on, you know, someone we need to keep paying attention to or not.

[SPEAKER_00]: You are getting a little bit more star-studded version of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And normal Thursday.

[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I definitely feel like I'm in a bit of like a cross-kick a roll when I go out to things during the spring, like they're a clear targets I have.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there are a lot of various cuts at all of these games I'm going to, but for areas cuts, you also have to work really deep down your preflist, you'll be seeing guys who are not going to be considered in the first 10 rounds and that's really valuable.

[SPEAKER_01]: But for me, again, it was like very prominent players who we have ranked highly on our board and it's just fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of the events I do are

[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, there's this showcase, this tournament, you're at one field.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're kind of sitting here all day.

[SPEAKER_01]: Players are coming through.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's very efficient, it's very valuable.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there just was something a little exciting about traveling around the Dallas area and watching high school games.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it also is different, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you're watching high school players, it's so much more focused, it's rare we do not have a Corona high every year where they're just players and players you can watch on a high school team with these it's like you're you're watching one specific player so you're very focused during their at bats or when they're on the mound and then when they're in the field you're kind of just watching them.

[SPEAKER_01]: to see if they get in the opportunities.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very different way of watching a game.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's refreshing to do, and again, it's enjoyable when work is going and watching really good baseball players.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's get into some of those.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, just speaking of, we're gonna start it off with, I would say the player who has probably done more

[SPEAKER_00]: in the first view and we are still, we are play 12 games as we're recording this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But UCLA's Will Gasparino already has CS12 games, he has 10 homers.

[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to see him this weekend.

[SPEAKER_00]: You've been talking to scouts, cross-checkers, from off the officials, we've got a mock coming, so you're trying to get kind of a sense of where everything is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wanna kind of ask with that, like, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll lay the land out and then kind of hand it over to you, which is I would say that gas freno came into this season viewed more skeptically than positively two years at Texas never hit close to 300 and as the study we did last year kind of spells out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, you've got to hit 300 in college.

[SPEAKER_00]: Going back to 1981, there are very few players who have been drafted in the first round who don't hit 300 in their draft year.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was something Gasprino had never done.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was more kind of a 250 hitter.

[SPEAKER_00]: 300 on basis first year, 339, the second.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter how much power you have.

[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to show some consistency of contact to be a real top of the draft contender.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here we are.

[SPEAKER_00]: 390, 528, 1, 2, 2, 2, 0, so far.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got to see it.

[SPEAKER_00]: 10 homers already.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to kind of ask like, how important is this because the other thing that lays out here is, I would say that the probably hasn't been any teams that's had more scouting heat on them.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would guess in the first three weeks, then UCLA just because of the quality of competition, they face so far.

[SPEAKER_00]: These big

[SPEAKER_00]: The schedules actually, I would say like for a lot of guys, the schedule could get a lot tougher, I would say that the quality of computation, you can't say what guests for, you know, that he's feasting on bad competition so far.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not that they're playing teams who have no hope of going to the, and seeing that, you know, being in the field of 64.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean UCLA in terms of our top 25 teams, I believe they're the maybe one of two teams that has played six games against top 25 opponents.

[SPEAKER_01]: They had a series with TCU week two that was quality competition this week three tournament.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're playing good teams every single day.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think it is really important for Will that that he has been able to do this damage against.

[SPEAKER_01]: big teams, because I think it just, it makes you take his changes a little bit more seriously.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he was doing this against a bad competition, again, it's just really weak, non-conference competition that first few weeks, like some teams really do just have lighter schedules than UCLA.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he was doing this against those teams, I think it would be a lot easier for evaluators to maybe shake it off and not take it as seriously.

[SPEAKER_01]: And because he's done it against

[SPEAKER_01]: On the site this week, there's there's a whole section where I kind of get into will gas Reno's profile and his changes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd encourage everyone to read that.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a pretty deep notebook that I have from from this trip.

[SPEAKER_01]: So but the very much will read that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the kind of sense I have a will gas arena right now is he's making everyone on the industry very nervous.

[SPEAKER_01]: And what I mean by that is, I'm trying to get a grasp of where to place him on our board currently.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're constantly tweaking how we rank players like Will Gasprino is not on our top 200 right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that is not because we were unaware of who Will Gasprino was.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was the top 100 prospect in coming out of high school, like his tools and upside potential has always been really exciting.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a player who's grown up around the game, his father, Billy Gasprino.

[SPEAKER_01]: formerly the Scouting Director with the Dodgers currently a VP with that organization.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's been a very prominent name for a while, but kind of like you said at the beginning, he just really struggled his first two years at Texas in the hitting department.

[SPEAKER_01]: He came into this spring with a real skepticism about just the quality of the hair he was, both in terms of

[SPEAKER_01]: making consistent contact, and also with his swing decisions.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, as a freshman in 2024, he played 59 games.

[SPEAKER_01]: He had a 32.9% strike out rate in just a 4.8% walk rate to his credit in 25 he improved those numbers, but it was still.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's 25.6% strikeout, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Which is very solidly in the skeptical, like can you really hit territory?

[SPEAKER_01]: And so far this year, there are real improvements that are meaningful changes that he's made to his swing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, he's leading the country with 10 home runs.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's just 11 games, which is absurd.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's only three home runs off his single season career best line from a year ago, which he did in 58 games.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it feels pretty comfortable that he's going to shatter that record.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's my top that this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would hope my top that this week, you know, by the time we get, you know, if it keeps it up, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's homering basically once once a game.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's the most exciting number eight hitter in the country, probably.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's worth pointing out like this is a guy hitting eighth in a lineup, which is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just an incredible luxury for UCLA to have a little high school thing where you put your best hit or eight because then you think that they won't pitch around him because they don't have any scouting I mean I do think like if things are going well don't really change it it's kind of a great addition to have this kind of game changing power in the eight hole it really lengthens a lineup in a dangerous way but in terms of draft stock I think yes very good that he's doing this now I also think just given his track record

[SPEAKER_01]: and given the uncertainty that the industry seems to be having right now and exactly like, is this a hot streak?

[SPEAKER_01]: Is this a real change?

[SPEAKER_01]: What are we going to, basically everyone I've talked to is like, yeah, I feel very light on his hit tool right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm scared.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be really wrong on his hit tool evaluation.

[SPEAKER_01]: I need to see him more to try and create some confidence and like, what I'm actually going to upgrade that to.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think for him,

[SPEAKER_01]: It is going to be important for him to continue to maintain this improvement in the entire year.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he kind of falls off and regresses and is more back to the 2024, 2025 version of Gas Reno, I think it'll be very easy for a lot of teams to kind of choth his up to just a hot stretch.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like he is a player who has this sort of power in tools where when things are going right, he can just go on these searches.

[SPEAKER_01]: But just how real the offensive set up changes, the approach changes will be extremely important for his draft stock.

[SPEAKER_01]: with a scout today, just talking about some of the top players in the class, Gaspreeno's name came up, and he said, hey, I think this is going to probably be one of the more polarizing players in the entire class, because it's first round tools.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is not a first round track record in terms of hitting performance in like where we wind up with that evaluation, how close everyone gets to a consensus on Gaspreeno is going to be intriguing to follow.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I actually would say I think that there is a player that is going to hurt Billy Gasparino's draft stock, which is 100 bishop.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because you mean will.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, although Billy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Billy's Billy's son.

[SPEAKER_00]: Billy's busy scouting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Will Gasparino that I think will hurt will Gasparino's draft stock, which is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hunter Bishop kind of had this year in 2019 right like Hunter Bishop was a tooled up guy at Arizona State but his first two years he had five home runs each of his first two years never hit 300 had concerns about his contactability the tools were always loud but never had kind of put fully put it together.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then Hunter Bishop went out and in 2019 kind of had this kind of start to the season like he was sitting, you know, again, he never hit more than five homers.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at that season, like you get to mid March and he already was at like 50, you know, like 12, 14, 15 almers and after that, it did kind of tail off somebody did have that year where he hit 342, 479, 748 overall that year went very high in the draft and then in pro ball.

[SPEAKER_00]: the hit tool questions very quickly get injuries as well, but they kind of very quickly arose again and it never kind of came together.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's never kind of come together for him.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that that's going to drag aspirin.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, but I do think there's a lot of people who will be scouting

[SPEAKER_00]: Gasparino, who will remember that story and be like, okay, you know, and again, like the fun, the, what I remember from that year is it was like the comparison of Cameron Eisner and Hunter Bishop, because Eisner was like the guy who really didn't have the year, it was kind of very much like, okay, which one of these guys, the guy who kind of had the track record coming in,

[SPEAKER_00]: or the guy who had the great draft year in and up like mysters actually I would say like neither of them have been you know hold run draft picks but I would say myster has ended up being the more productive big pro he's made it to the majors and all but I do wonder how much like you said there's that kind of like okay we know about we've known about this guy for a very long time

[SPEAKER_00]: He's on this great heater.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do think, like you said, there's probably is that a little bit of this natural, like, I want to see him do it for a couple more months.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Before I'm going to feel comfortable with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: The player, I thought of two in regards to Gasprino.

[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe this just because I did a study on strike-out rates of first-round college hitters in the Bundespol era.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's fans, honeycutt.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've been very different players in terms of there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Their size and kind of levers at the plate, but I think they have similar pros in terms of their very athletic and toolsy with upside and they have very similar cons in the sense of like we have a lot of uncertainty about the quality of the peer hit tool, but in that study, I basically looked at.

[SPEAKER_01]: All of the first round hitters at a four year university's first 30 picks, I guess, to be specific, because first round picks can be a little bit more variable than the first 30, but setting it a 30 because we don't have to have as a lot more straightforward, but at the time I did that study, there were 106 hitters drafted at a four year university's in the first 30 picks.

[SPEAKER_01]: bonus pool error to now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So 2012 to it would have been the 2024 draft.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there were only 13 players in that span that had a career strike at rating college north of 20%.

[SPEAKER_01]: North of 20% feels low for players like gas breeno and vans any cut, but here are some of the other players that fell into that bucket.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was Vance Honeycutt, Kyler Murray, Hunter Bishop, Bryce Matthews, Reggie Crawford, Spencer Jones, Jiren Kendall, Michael Toglia, Jordan Westburg, Trevor Larnock, Joey Bart, Matt McLean, Logan Davidson, Brock Wilkins.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like not a group.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're less there.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are some hits here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who else?

[SPEAKER_01]: Jerry is still out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it will Spencer Jones make the

[SPEAKER_01]: the adjustments.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those are the questions we've had for Spencer Jill.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I honestly think a Spencer Jones comparison is not a terrible one with Will Gasp Reno.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's left handed hitter versus right handed hitter, but they're both like freakishly tall, freakishly athletic for their size with, I mean,

[SPEAKER_01]: Spencer Jones has 80 grade raw power.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll guess, Bruno, I'm sure some people are putting 80 grade raw power.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has at least 70 grade raw power.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I saw him miss hit foul balls of the opposite field that went like almost 400 feet down the line.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just jarring to see.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he is in this bucket of,

[SPEAKER_01]: like extreme risk, extreme reward profile, and I can imagine the industry is gonna have a whole host of different placements for where he's at on their boards because of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I will note, you said the key thing here is is we can't ignore like you brought up Spencer Jones, which may be go to someone else here, which is you said top 30, you look your study was top 30 picks.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was a certain very tall outfielder with some strikeout concerns taking it pick 31.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you went to pick 31 Aaron judge, you know, I mean, again, it is worth noting that Aaron judge never hit more than 12 homers at Fresno State, what a bum, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: And basically, how to face some of these contact questions, like, this is not saying the gas breeders are in judge, but when you have things, that is like, when you point to Aaron judge, it's like, this is the sort of upside.

[SPEAKER_01]: you dream about like this is why you take the risk because they're like kind of griffin from a few years ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like everyone knows aware that there was really exciting pure upside.

[SPEAKER_01]: You just had to take on a certain amount of hit risk.

[SPEAKER_01]: to acquire that upside and now the pirates are the beneficiaries of that seems like it's going to pay off really well for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of these guys are just going to fail is ultimately what seems to have to grapple with.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to know ahead of time who's the player who's actually going to pan out.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is game changing power.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is above average or plus speed for guy who's 67, maybe six hate at some point in the future.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good arm.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's playing center field now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you move to a corner, he's probably a plus defender, or at least has a chance to be a plus defender.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's probably going to terrify every team in the industry, but there's no denying like the the upside ability he has to offer.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm still torn on what I think of him because I went into this series, really being down on Gasbury News approach and just contact and then first game, he had his really ugly miss on a on a breaking ball as like,

[SPEAKER_01]: Casparina, like, there's just too much swing and miss here, the approach, but then I kept watching him more and more and he kept hitting balls and I feel like day two, in particular, all his head bass were just rock solid and the way he's able to backspin a baseball to the Bright Center gap, it is elite, carry, empower, I have no concerns that all that is going to transfer to wood bat.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he's terrifying, but also super exciting.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, where are you?

[SPEAKER_00]: I do think you come to a point in the first round where if he keeps this up in any sort of way, you have to consider it because what you said like, I think this gonna be a theme of this this year, it's like we often offer the reminder.

[SPEAKER_00]: In any draft, even in the first round, half the guys are gonna either fail or be like very modest impact, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And,

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, like when you take someone like David doll, I'll tell you more, I was just looking at 2012 draft and they give you like two, four.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a useful pick, but that's also, you get to a point in the back of the first round or even a little bit earlier that where you're like, okay, this guy is either gonna fail or be like an all star and this guy could be fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: You might start in being in, okay, we're trying to win between here.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you talk about like a guy who's this tall as well, it's understandable, yeah, like that this is going to take longer this is I was talking to one scow who basically wondered because of his life just the inherent length that is in the swing or the player of this height like if he is just always going to be susceptible to velocity in on the hands and soft stuff away like that's typically the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: on those profiles and I think that's going to be the game plan for how teams are going to attack him at the next level when pictures are more equipped to do that regularly.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like you said, it is always a kind of a question of risk versus reward where that becomes like a worthwhile risk to take and I do think maybe the one.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing that could limit how high will goes in this class is the fact that this class is just really good.

[SPEAKER_01]: It really feels like there are 10 to 15 players who are.

[SPEAKER_01]: locked into the top of the first round, barring injuries, and even with some injuries like with Cameron Flooky, still feels like he's gonna go in that range, as long as he comes back and everything looks good, a lot of that is just coming down to like the medicals, but there are a lot of premium offensive profiles and college at better defensive positions, and I got a chance to compare and contrast to with the very best this week as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was, I feel like you're useful to see.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm posting, but you're now segueing perfectly, even though I'm hosting, which is, it is a perfect segue, because the other thing that does stand out from what you got to see is comparing and contrasting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say the two top shortstop candidates on the college side in this draft class, and we're going to get into that right after this quick break.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Carlos,

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we've got to talk about Rock you'll ask you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we'll probably talk about Rock you'll ask you on at some point in almost every draft podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe non-white socks fans will get mad at us for talking up so much because they don't have any chance.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, but I would say the more important thing that you got to see this weekend is you also got to see Alabama's Justin LeBron.

[UNKNOWN]: Who?

[SPEAKER_00]: I would say we just laid it out with Gasparino, that will Gasparino has so much to prove this year, but also could do more to help his draft stock, as you said.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's not even a top 200 guy coming into the year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will say that when we update it the next time, I feel very comfortable that way, Jake.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, my crack that list.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you might move in.

[SPEAKER_00]: we have to take throughout the season and this will, that will change.

[SPEAKER_00]: But Justin Lebron came into this year as one of the top players in this draft class.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I would say like, if the rock Chalowski error bars would say that like his range was from like one, two, three, you know, like as far as pure talent, like not bonus bands, all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like

[SPEAKER_00]: A bad Rock Chalowski season was not going to see him slide very far.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was not going to that first call of, hey, we're interested in taking you would not last very long.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Justin LeBron,

[SPEAKER_00]: is a guy, if we say rocks one right now and he's the clear one.

[SPEAKER_00]: The bars even right now, as we talk about this three weeks going into week four of the season, we're still talking about a guy who's range goes anywhere from the very top of the draft to sliding, I would say reasonably significantly in the first round, depending on the contact rate, the hit tool questions and all that kind of stuff surrounded him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that, um, and even more so than Will Gasprino, what Justin LeBron doesn't conference play is really going to dictate where his draft stock winds up this year, because the biggest question with LeBron was, I mean a year ago, it did feel like Justin LeBron was having a sort of Will Gasprino start to the season.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was maybe,

[SPEAKER_01]: one of the most impressive hitters in the non conference slate of college baseball in 2025 and then we got into conference play and the bottom kind of fell out for him you talked about will guess where you know hitting 248 to 52 in his career in his first two seasons of the scary strikeout rate will in conference play in 2025 just on the run hit to 52 with a 31.9% strikeout rate those are alarming numbers those are numbers that he's going to have to improve this year and if he does not improve in those areas

[SPEAKER_01]: It feels very unlikely that there is going to be a rock-chalasky versus Justin Lebron conversation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I will say so far.

[SPEAKER_01]: This season, Justin Lebron seems to be trending in the right direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, so much of this, you could just wash away and say okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: shut up until you do it in conference play we'll see but he's striking out 13.2% of the time through 14 games so far he's walking at a 17.6% clip if those numbers are maintained they will represent career best for him in his college career and I do think ultimately with Justin LeBron

[SPEAKER_01]: his package of tools and profile is the most competitive with Rocholowski in this draft class.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he has similar upside in a similar no doubt sort of shortstop profile.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we talked about Brady Emerson a few weeks ago on this podcast, but the tool set and the just dynamism,

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, of the upside potential with Lebron, I think is in a different tier, uh, from Great Emerson.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is always weird to compare and contrast, Grady with Lebron, because typically you invert those high school and college profiles, but I do think that's the case.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what stood out to me when watching rock versus Justin Lebron,

[SPEAKER_01]: I think if you're in like the pro Justin LeBron camp and to be very clear, I have talked with Scouts who are more excited about Justin LeBron than Rock Chalaski.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now maybe they would temper that excitement with some of the natural risks there and I don't think anyone is saying Rock is not still in that one one category of his own pretty handily.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he is maybe a full-grade better of a runner than Rock Chalaski.

[SPEAKER_01]: There is a lean sort of

[SPEAKER_01]: a wierry physicality that is a bit different than rock rock is more solid and thick and sturdy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Justin Lebron is always going to maybe offer some more value on the basis.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's been a very efficient basilar his college career.

[SPEAKER_01]: Looking at the numbers now, he's 36 for 37.

[SPEAKER_01]: He already has 12 bags in 26.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think rock is ever going to be that sort of runner rock is maybe a solid average runner Maybe he'll turn it some above average times, but Justin LeBron accelerates rapidly.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is this bouncy buttery smooth mover in the field Watching him do an in and out at like 50% speed was was a thing of beauty to see and and I think that the differences between LeBron's game and rocks are

[SPEAKER_01]: little bit more hit risk obviously and then I even think with the the the security of of just LeBron's hands the reliability of his glove at the position.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Rock is just a little bit more advance right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw Rock make every play.

[SPEAKER_01]: He had an opportunity to make this weekend and he made it.

[SPEAKER_01]: with with shocking ease, like just eating up 110 mile prayer ground balls, short hops, positioning his feet incredibly well around challenging plays, like knowing when and how to use his arm, both of these guys have plus arms, but like in the whole that you that you shared, that you know, that we'll put up on the YouTube while you're watching this, like,

[SPEAKER_00]: You could say like, okay, that wasn't like the, that wasn't a canon arm like where you threw in the foot, but it was absolutely using every bit of awareness.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say this is your environment.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys ever wonder, like, well, what does internal clock mean with a short stop?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this play is grabbing grovig.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a ball into the hole.

[SPEAKER_01]: Rochelowski ranges over takes a backhand very quickly turns and gets rid of the ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: He could have taken it a little bit longer to load up, get his feet set.

[SPEAKER_01]: He gets rid of the ball quickly and he's intentionally throwing it low on a skip and it's accurate.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just think that awareness and that, um,

[SPEAKER_01]: That like baseball intelligence that rock has is more advanced than anyone in this class.

[SPEAKER_01]: And with Justin LeBron, I think I saw like some of the highs and some of the loads of him defense.

[SPEAKER_01]: He has great range.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw him range up the middle, have a forehand.

[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of botched a forehand play that he should have made.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he will make those more in the future as he gets more reps. And then there's another play where he ranges across the second base bag and a shifted position, tracks back, throws across the second base bag with his body moving to third and throws a dart to first base for double play.

[SPEAKER_01]: He looked really good coming in and making a slow roller.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like I have no doubts that Justin LeBron can become a plus defender.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just think Rochilowski is a plus defender right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think those are some of the differences between these two that maybe we'll make the the gap between them decisive.

[SPEAKER_01]: If they're not closed up more, that's kind of how I frame it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll just note with that, I'm not a giant errors are that important for a young short stop.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's so many short stops who have errors at a young age and then they

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a part of me that almost is like errors for a young shortstop, especially if it's because of errors of aggression, they'll learn to not do that, but I would rather see that than the guy who just can't even make that play.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I will note with LeBron, we are very early in the season.

[SPEAKER_00]: He already has six errors.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a 913 field in percentage.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had nine errors last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is going to almost assuredly blow well past that this year considering how many errors he already has this year.

[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be something where, again, a lot of what you talk about, there will be probably some diving deep into kind of just the hands and the reliability.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, if you're drafting at the top of the draft,

[SPEAKER_00]: You have to get forensic on this stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have to be over-analyzing things and trying to figure out, okay, why are these things happening?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is there something here that is temporary or long-term, you know, all these kind of things?

[SPEAKER_00]: But it is worth noting that 9, 13 field percent right now is easily the worst he's ever had, you know, it is two years before this.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the freshman had 11 errors, you know, and he's already at six right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's something to watch doesn't mean that that's, oh, he can't play defense, you know, or anything like that, but it does mean.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which to be clear, I do think he can and I think he will be very good defender.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the current reliability.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think you have the good rock and that's probably the case for rock compared to basically any short something in this class, but that that is just kind of a difference.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: like macro view, the way I frame it is like Justin LeBron has tremendously exciting upside.

[SPEAKER_01]: It might require a few more reps to get to that, to get to that polish that rock just has now.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you want to say, oh, let's dream on the athlete, let's let's dream on what he can be in a few years, like you could make a really compelling case for Justin Ron, and I came away from my look, really being excited about him.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the way he's able to lose a ball to the pull side, there is an ease to his game that I think the elite players typically have, like everything he does on the field looks easy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw him strike out, I saw him get hit by a pitch or some fly out, but the home runs that he hits.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to describe it really.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's not the most physical player in the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a six foot, 275 pounds, something like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's probably a little bit heavier than that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But when he makes contact, it really doesn't look like the ball she goes as far as it does.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think he just has such tremendous bat speed.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, he's has a very fun player.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think,

[SPEAKER_01]: He would probably be my favorite at this stage to overtake gradie Emerson as the number two player on the class.

[SPEAKER_01]: I could easily see that happening.

[SPEAKER_01]: If he does continue to show some swing refinements in contact improvements in conference play.

[SPEAKER_01]: But again, just to maybe emphasize here at the end of the this conversation, Justin LeBron in conference play is going to dictate so much about his draft stock.

[SPEAKER_01]: And everyone is basically just waiting to see, okay, what do you look like as a hitter when conference play comes around?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the one thing, the last thing I want to kind of touch on this, like we're comparing the dressing, we just talked about rock, we're almost talking about gasp green or earlier.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at UCLA, Versailles, Emma, look at LeBron, Versailles, Chalowski, Chalowski.

[SPEAKER_00]: As he goes into conference play, that's not going to be that the competition ramps up.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the schedule that's kind of coming up, I mean, this is the thing about being in the big ten as opposed to Ohio State, Rutgers, Minnesota, like Michigan States on the schedule coming up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like they have conference weekends that are not going to be, oh, this is the must see to see like what, you know, the best of rock, whereas with Alabama,

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be something where I feel like that there's much more of just an Iran season to be written than there is, which allows you just from the standpoint up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see who's got all that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got this weekend.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Get it up.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be fun to watch.

[SPEAKER_00]: As you said, he had the season going to go in like this last year at this time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then his how he performs in conference is probably going to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: as important for him as about anyone they can think of in that top tier of the draft class just because, yeah, that's the question that he faces.

[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.

[SPEAKER_00]: But so, we've talked a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: You saw, like you said, you saw a lot of college guys, but you also did see high school guys on the strip too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And is Cooper Harris kind of the takeaway, your big takeaway on the high school side for the stripper?

[SPEAKER_00]: What, you know, why should people be paying attention

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Cooper Harris, I wrote this.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's not exactly a pop up player.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a player.

[SPEAKER_01]: We saw over the summer.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's mostly just a player that we

[SPEAKER_01]: currently have underranked based on what I saw from him in person and just the general conversations around the field about Cooper Harris.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's a Rayana pitcher out of Texas committed to Texas.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got to see both him and Trayeringel, who's also a Texas based Texas commit in the area on the same day.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Cooper Harris's start was more impressive.

[SPEAKER_01]: Trayeringel is a guy we haven't said the top 50.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's probably sitting in the second third round range.

[SPEAKER_01]: At this stage, but Cooper Harris is a

[SPEAKER_01]: On our next update, I've heard as much from Scouts when soliciting feedback again.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought he looked like that sort of player.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I saw him, he had one of the more impressive starts that you'll see from high school player, he struck out 17 batters in six innings.

[SPEAKER_01]: He struck out 12 of the first batters he faced.

[SPEAKER_01]: He had two non-strike out outs in this game.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were both groundouts.

[SPEAKER_01]: And for a while it was looking like he was going to throw a no hitter with just nothing but strikeouts.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one batter who actually got on base against him reached on a drop third strike on a strike out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So no one really did anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was sitting ninety ninety five.

[SPEAKER_01]: The fastball control.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought was good.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's got two distinct breaking balls.

[SPEAKER_01]: A slider in a curve ball that looked good.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's flashed to change up in the past.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, he just looks like another solid addition to this really deep high school pigeon class, I think I mentioned it on one of our early season podcasts maybe one or top 200 drop, but there were a number of.

[SPEAKER_01]: high school pitchers, who I couldn't find room four in the top 200 that I was still really excited about.

[SPEAKER_01]: Cooper Harris would be in that bucket as well and now like he's just been too much warrant him being excluded.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think maybe in hindsight, I would have liked to have him on prior to the season.

[SPEAKER_01]: But again, this is kind of why we continue to take steps at it because

[SPEAKER_01]: We're not perfect.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not perfect, but we will be very transparent about kind of our process and how it works and very transparent about the fact that we're constantly Just trying to solicit information and get these guys lined up.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think right now he looks like a no doubt top three rounds talent for me and he's also if you're a Texas fan, I think both Harris and Ringale

[SPEAKER_01]: feel like they're in this range where if they got a campus, it wouldn't be shocking because there is a lot of competition in this high school pitching group and not all of these guys are going to get paid.

[SPEAKER_00]: The money they are worth and not only that, but obviously the dynamic has very much changed nowadays where you aren't talking about your choices are either getting paid or not getting paid.

[SPEAKER_00]: Your choices are getting paid as going to minor league baseball in

[SPEAKER_00]: to be, you know, potentially an ace in college.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it changes that dynamical a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, now I want to say like you said you want to be transparent about, but also this is part of the history.

[SPEAKER_00]: We both have kind of dove deep into Texas in the draft over years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that there's one of these guys every, like, you said, Harris is not the true pop-up where this isn't a guy who

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of guys where I would say that we've seen this over the years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Grayson Rodriguez is one that stands out where it's like, wasn't that people didn't know about Grayson Rodriguez before his senior year, but Grayson Rodriguez found another gear his senior year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Go way back, Noah's Cinderguard found another gear.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're does seem to be kind of this history of the Texas high school pitcher who is reasonably well regarded and then comes out for a senior year and you're like, oh, there's something more here than it was before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wouldn't like in it exactly to the Grayson Rodriguez situation because I do think there was a significant jump and stuff that maybe Cooper Harris is kind of just doing more of the same like we we wrote about Cooper Harris as a stand out at the very good game.

[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe it's just like, hey, you should have had him on here earlier.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's a case of like, hey, there's so many good high school pictures like sorting through them is just difficult to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's both of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, they're they're always so I guess I'm waiting for like who's going to be the first legitimate high school pop up player.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that we've had that so far, but at some point I'm sure that's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, I do want to ask a big and deeper limit though, like you said, we've wrote about him in the area because of all this.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you said the stuff's not dramatically different, what was better about him now?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why is he more effective now?

[SPEAKER_01]: Why is he kind of like, oh, well, again, I think part of it is like we probably just had him place two, two light.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, like, I mean, he, I would say in contrast to try to ring out maybe.

[SPEAKER_01]: what is a separator or potentially a separator for for those two just the command that he showed the fastball control again these are high school zones so there are a lot of there are a lot of calls that he's getting that he's not going to get at the next level but I felt the consistency of his location with his entire mix was pretty impressive where Tray Ringel has shown maybe a bigger gear of velocity in the past and maybe has a better breaking ball outright than Cooper Harris but I think

[SPEAKER_01]: After watching them both on the same day, I came way more confident that Cooper Harris has a really good chance to profile as a starter and I do think they're going to be some continued starter reliever questions for tri-ringel that he's going to need to answer, at least, um, moving forward the spring-honey-day answer, or if you get to college-honey-day answer then.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's maybe the differentiator for me when

[SPEAKER_01]: when looking at those two specifically, but I think they both belong in a similar tier on the draft board.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if there are more people in Texas who prefer Cooper Harris, moving forward, that wouldn't be shocking to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they're both really talented pitchers.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was fun to see them both.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that is kind of our look at Carlisce's trip to Texas.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and a lot more, I think they're like 20 more people that are road up.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's lots of detail.

[SPEAKER_01]: We got video.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've got notes on a whole slew of players.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I also have an underclass notebook that I need to take a cranking on today too.

[SPEAKER_01]: So by the time we're listening to this podcast, that should be out as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of stuff on the draft side as we will be doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll getting you ready for the draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: We hope that you enjoyed this latest edition of the Baseball America draft podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do check out Baseball America.com so much over there.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, check out the other podcast on the podcast feed.

[SPEAKER_00]: We pretty much, we want to give you something to listen to.

[SPEAKER_00]: Pretty much now one day, you know, every day when you get up, you should have another be a in weekdays.

[SPEAKER_00]: You should have another be a podcast in your feed We're going to cover in college.

[SPEAKER_00]: We cover the draft.

[SPEAKER_00]: We cover prospects.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be covering the WBC spring breakouts everything spring training all that and again check out base ball american.com and check out the base ball american youtube page because if you like this, there's a lot more over there that you will like as well

[SPEAKER_00]: and we will keep that rolling all the way getting you ready for the draft as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: For Carlos, I'm JJ.

[SPEAKER_00]: So long, everybody.