1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:03,320 Hello. How's it going? 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,000 Welcome along to another episode of press X to continue it. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,040 Is Stefan Powell here holding the fort for you whilst I is away? 4 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:14,240 Being a a theater star, treading the boards 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,200 all over the UK with his stage show. 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,320 But look, fear not okay? 7 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,800 We have got another special episode with an extra 8 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,920 special guest for you this week to keep you busy and enlightened here 9 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,960 on press X to continue and to sit down. 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,800 Or if you're standing up, you can sit down. 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:33,760 Don't worry. 12 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:35,960 Just just get yourself comfortable in the brain. 13 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,960 You know, when you mind, get comfy, whatever you are, 14 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,600 wrap your use around this conversation. 15 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,800 We've had with one of the brightest minds making games in the UK at the moment. 16 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,520 It's a big sell, but frankly, it's true. 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,200 Now, before I tell you more about who it is, you already know who it is 18 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,080 because it says it on the episode description, isn't it? To be fair. 19 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,320 So look, just a reminder, please. 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:58,920 It makes such a big difference for us. 21 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,560 And so many of you do it already, which we love. 22 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,200 But if you haven't subscribed, make sure you subscribe to us. 23 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,440 Comment when you see our posts on social media, 24 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,280 whether you agree or disagree or or whatever with this stuff is on there. 25 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,240 Like those posts as well, telling me it's about us. 26 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,160 Get involved in the discord channel. 27 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,880 It makes a huge difference. To us here on press X. 28 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,000 So thank you very much everybody that's doing that already. 29 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,320 Keep up the good work and please join in if you've got a chance to do it. 30 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:22,120 Just yet. 31 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,920 Now you might have played one of these games like Thomas Was Alone, 32 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,000 which won a BAFTA for the performance of Danny Wallace, the comedian in that game. 33 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,040 Maybe you played John Wilkes X, seen it on the App Store. 34 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:33,760 You've played that. 35 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,400 How about Tron Identity or Tron Catalyst? 36 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,520 Maybe you've tried Volume or Solitaire Conspiracy. 37 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:41,080 Maybe you haven't heard any of them. Right. 38 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,440 But these are some of the most, significant independent 39 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,600 games made from the UK the last ten, 15 years. 40 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:47,960 Right. 41 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,600 Mike Bithell is the brains behind all of them. 42 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:52,920 And he's joined us on press X 43 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:57,640 to talk about his journey in making independent games. 44 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,440 What worked, what didn't everything in between. 45 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:02,720 It's a it's a really cool chat. 46 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:04,400 We've had quite a broad ranging chat as well. 47 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,120 But his journey 48 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,160 to making games, some advice for people who want to go and make games. 49 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,560 And we also talk about podcasts actually as well, because he's 50 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,720 one of the team that make a podcast called play Watch. 51 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,640 What does he play watch, listen, which is brilliant. 52 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:19,520 And you should go and check it out. 53 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,360 Actually, after you've listened to this. Of course. 54 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,920 So listen, stick with us for a really fascinating chat with Mike. 55 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,120 I'm definitely thinking to get loads out of it. 56 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,880 So yeah, welcome along to this episode of press X to continue. 57 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,800 And I a special episode with one for only Mike Bithell. 58 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:37,960 the obvious 59 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:43,080 place to start is for some people with some of a community or tuning on to 60 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,360 this will will know the name might, but might not necessarily be aware 61 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,440 of all of your sort of the ins and outs of your career 62 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,640 and the stuff that you've made and you've been, 63 00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:54,800 you've had such a varied career and sort of the cool stuff that you've done 64 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,520 which will come and touch upon. 65 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,480 But how would you introduce yourself at parties, Mike? 66 00:02:59,480 --> 00:02:59,840 When. 67 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,840 Oh, hey, this is my mate Mike. 68 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:40,720 The Bissell. 69 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,720 Yeah, this is it. 70 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:46,200 No. No, no. Do it. 71 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:46,480 Yeah. 72 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,480 Why not? 73 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,040 Yeah. 74 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,520 Did you always want to be a games maker? 75 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,520 Then when did that sort of happen for you? 76 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,400 Will you, was I wasn't very good 77 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,600 child actor, which is why now I make video hahahahahahahaha. 78 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,000 What did you, Did we win anything that we might have seen? 79 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:05,680 Michael. 80 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,240 Is it. 81 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:29,160 good looking enough to play. 82 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,880 And band, you know? 83 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,600 So I, And so there you are. You. 84 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:35,400 You're 15. 85 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,880 You've been told you're not handsome enough to be, Nicholas Cage. 86 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:44,240 And and so you always clearly wanted to do something creative. 87 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,240 And Michael obviously. 88 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,560 This is amazing. 89 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,560 Yeah. 90 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:35,840 Yeah. 91 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,000 On the Dreamcast is a beautiful game. 92 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:46,640 Yeah. 93 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Amazing. 94 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,400 Wow. So that's a Shen who's got a lot to answer for. 95 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,400 Yeah. Mike. 96 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:08,040 Yeah. 97 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,600 And so you end up sort of starting 98 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,600 to work in games development and and creating games. 99 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,880 Did you always want to sort of have control 100 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,120 over the titles you made, or did you enjoy being part of a team, 101 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,600 part of a greater haul in terms of that, that experience, or did you always. 102 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:24,840 No, no, no, no, I want to be number one. 103 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,800 I want it to be my ideas and be in charge. 104 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,120 Yeah. 105 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,120 Yeah. 106 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,080 Wow. Yeah, yeah. 107 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,040 Yeah yeah yeah yeah. 108 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,760 Yeah. 109 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,200 Yeah. 110 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,800 Yeah. 111 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,360 Yeah. 112 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:00,200 Yeah. 113 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,840 And that meeting then with your with your boss when you're like. Oh. 114 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,560 So this is, this is it was that. 115 00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:07,880 Were you excited. Were you scared. 116 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,880 What was your sort of emotion at that point. 117 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,800 Yeah. 118 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,680 I mean. 119 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:16,680 Yeah. 120 00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:25,000 Yeah. 121 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:26,920 It's amazing. 122 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:27,160 Yeah. 123 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,920 And in a, in an industry that has been so up and down and chopped 124 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:31,960 and changed and, 125 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,720 and, and everybody sort of in the middle of one of those periods at the moment to, 126 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,000 to, to have been doing it for so long is, is is a heck of an achievement, isn't it? 127 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,680 So, some of the 128 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,800 I suppose you didn't imagine at the time that you, when you, when you 129 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,400 release that game in your spare time that it would lead to this. 130 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,520 Right. That was never the grand plan. I suppose. 131 00:12:59,320 --> 00:12:59,720 Oh, yeah. 132 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:00,240 Jazzy. 133 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 134 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,960 five years I 135 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,440 Yeah. 136 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,400 The long way round. 137 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,400 Yeah yeah yeah. 138 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:06,520 Yeah, yeah. 139 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,400 To being realistic is very, quite a British thing, isn't it? 140 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:11,840 I suppose. 141 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,840 Yeah. 142 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:17,880 So, like you were saying, you've gone on then to develop 143 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,880 with your company lots of, of different things in different genres, 144 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,680 like you say on your website, you tend to focus on sci fi, 145 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,480 sort of settings and things. 146 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,360 So I have to ask, what is your what's your favorite sci fi setting? 147 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,360 What inspired you to want to be to be a sci fi 148 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,200 dude? 149 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,200 Oh, is it? 150 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,600 Yeah. 151 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,480 So you were in the in the 90s. 152 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:47,800 Yeah. 153 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,800 Yeah, yeah. 154 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,480 Yeah. 155 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,000 Yeah. 156 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,280 Yeah. 157 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,280 And to. 158 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:32,760 Yeah. 159 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:34,480 And has it did it to teach you stuff, 160 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,560 or did you learn things by your fandom that you've then applied in your, 161 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:38,560 in your day job. 162 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,160 Yeah. 163 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,160 Was very diverse, very inclusive wasn't it. 164 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:21,800 Yeah. 165 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,600 Yeah yeah you can. 166 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,600 But it's like it's actually, 167 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,720 you know, being the cleverest person in the room, which I am never. 168 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:30,520 But you know, it's 169 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:31,200 I don't know, it's 170 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,640 not speaking from experience, but I can imagine being the cleverest 171 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,480 puts the room sometimes, you know, and not and not coming across like a, 172 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,840 like a book is actually quite hard, isn't it? 173 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,640 Yeah. 174 00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:02,960 Yeah. 175 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,000 So I wonder actually, 176 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:06,480 because obviously 177 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,800 we we've got this feature on the podcast where we talk about people's unsung 178 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,000 hero games, which is a game that maybe doesn't get the plaudits it deserves. 179 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,040 It doesn't get the recognition. 180 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,920 Well, I was wondering, I imagine that you might have 181 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,520 a Star Trek game that there could be your unsung hero game 182 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,080 because you can't you can't see one of your own games. 183 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,840 Mike is the unsung hero game because we going to talk plenty about your games. 184 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:28,400 Yeah. 185 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,000 That's it. Yeah. 186 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:31,480 That's it. 187 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,560 Yeah. 188 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,400 That's they, they've got he's got one of his games, got a BAFTA. 189 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,680 So come on Danny what is Danny. 190 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,680 What is what a BAFTA feels right. 191 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,840 Yeah. 192 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,640 Yeah. 193 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,080 it holds up and 194 00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:19,720 Ha ha 195 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,720 ha ha ha. 196 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,200 Yeah. 197 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,520 So talking obviously, you know, a lot of people listening to 198 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,760 this will will come because, either they know your work and really enjoy it 199 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,080 or they listen to us, or they want to be game 200 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,200 designers, developers, and they look at you 201 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,080 as a successful person in the British games industry 202 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,640 who's made it work for 15 years. 203 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,840 It's been your you've, you know, career being able to make games. 204 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:07,120 What would you what advice would you give people now because that 205 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,480 like you've already touched upon, the landscape is very different today 206 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,680 as it was when you started all those years ago. 207 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,920 Yeah. 208 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,960 That's great advice because we've had the similar question people have. 209 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,880 But this podcast, because we obviously doing our independent podcast that is done 210 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,720 for the love of it by by a crew of people that that get a kick out of it. 211 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,080 On whether or not we become the most watched or listen to podcasts in 212 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,640 the world is unlikely, but we are having fun making it. 213 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,120 We get to chat, interesting people argue, and then you get a 214 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:52,080 you get a kick out of it regardless. Then it's hard. 215 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,400 Then when when you do something because you're thinking about the pounds 216 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,720 in the pen sometimes, or the career progression and all that sort of stuff, 217 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,720 because that that's when it starts to get a bit muddled and muddied, isn't it? 218 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:28,480 We both do. 219 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:28,920 It's fine. 220 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,920 It's right. 221 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,280 Yeah. 222 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,080 And because it is, it's difficult sometimes for people not to get 223 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,480 swept up in, especially if you go and work for it for a company or whatever, 224 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,400 and you and that are making because it definitely feels like to me. 225 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,640 I wonder if you agree or disagree. 226 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,880 As someone who makes what we would call classes independent games, right? 227 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,600 Indie games, there seems to be like a two tranches of an industry 228 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,600 that we live in at the moment, and the stuff that we, we consume. 229 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,880 There's the big Triple-A, if you will, titles 230 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,080 that are chasing the same sort of financial monetization schemes. 231 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,080 So are off to them, free to play games 232 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,440 that will get you to pay monthly, or they'll cost a massive amount of 233 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,360 money upfront. 234 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:28,040 And they're so massive and big in scope, 235 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,880 you could even conceive of putting that together on your own. 236 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,680 And then you've got smaller companies that are able to do 237 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,800 be nimble and do more different things. 238 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,840 But obviously the scale is smaller. 239 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,880 And I suppose often sometimes people think that they have to do the thing 240 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,440 at the top, right. But I suppose you don't you don't have to. 241 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,800 You don't have to. That's not that's not what a game necessarily is. 242 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,840 Yeah. SIM. 243 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,360 Well of course, of course. 244 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:54,160 No no no. 245 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,080 Yet that's that's a, that's a, that's a advice. 246 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,080 That is. 247 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:07,680 Yeah. 248 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,600 Yeah I know and of course it keeps slipping. 249 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,440 Everybody's. It keeps it. Okay. We'll put it out this time. We. 250 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,600 Oh no wait. No we can't do that. 251 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,120 Let's pull it forward or let's push it back. 252 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,120 Let's, let's whatever. 253 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:22,680 Yeah. 254 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,800 Yeah. 255 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,280 You know that decision we made a couple of months? 256 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,040 I said, can we change it? Yeah, absolutely. 257 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,960 You also have made games that are played a lot on mobile devices. 258 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,280 And, I mean, just because we don't, I don't 259 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,800 we talk about mobile games here and, you know, sometimes, again, 260 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,560 thought of as another thing when it's just as it's 261 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,400 just as much a part of the games industry is playing a game with a console, 262 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,280 PC or whatever. 263 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,800 Well, financially. 264 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:51,400 Absolutely. 265 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,160 And also you've got a wider 266 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,000 audience base in terms of, you know, demographic, right? 267 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,640 The people who can play courses on the app stores or whatever, 268 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,960 how tricky is it to navigate that space? 269 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,040 Because it's interesting. 270 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:02,720 Like if you're like, 271 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,120 if you just go on your store and you want to just get a game to play 272 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,360 while you're on a table on the train or whatever, 273 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,360 or you're just, you know, busy, it is. 274 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,800 You are bombarded with up with options. 275 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,040 And as someone who has sometimes choice anxiety, it's like, well, where to start? 276 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,120 So how would you navigate that as a creator trying to, 277 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,120 you know, to get some space in there? 278 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,440 Yeah. 279 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:53,760 Wow. Yeah. 280 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,280 Wow. That. 281 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:24,840 Yeah. 282 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,440 That came that, It's so it's so good, isn't it? 283 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,160 Schizo addictive. 284 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,520 Just just dropped by. 285 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,560 I mean, I was playing a lawnmower sim at one point, which I was. 286 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,200 I was advocating for people. So, you know, this stuff you get. 287 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,080 But it is because it is like it is such a big part of the game space, 288 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,320 though, and games and creators and people who want to get into 289 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,040 I think, oh, well, maybe we can try to do that. 290 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:47,960 But it is like you 291 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,840 say, it's hard to it's hard to try and break into there and therefore, 292 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:53,960 no, I'm just gonna say, 293 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,280 therefore you feel confident that, that there's enough people 294 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,840 wanting to spend money to pay you for games, that you've not pivoted 295 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,680 to, those sort of free to play type experiences. 296 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,480 Yeah. 297 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,880 Yeah. 298 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,200 Yeah. 299 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:42,800 Yeah. 300 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,800 Now I really wanted to talk to you because I knew obviously 301 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,400 you were coming on to on today about this thing that we've touched upon 302 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,360 a couple of times and on the podcast, but not in sort of any, any depth. 303 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,640 And we, we spoke about a couple of weeks ago, 304 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,080 we had Che Thompson on, we were talking about what we're excited for for 2026, 305 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,240 and I was talking about fable because I remember the fable games, 306 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,480 because of their, their Britishness, if you will. 307 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,640 You know, we we Stephen Fry was in a fable game, you know what I mean? 308 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,240 There was there was, there were British gags and, 309 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,320 and I suppose that was an, an era where Britain 310 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,760 really punched above its weight and still does in the indie game space. 311 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,120 But in terms of not just in terms of the creative vision behind the game 312 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,040 and those who create created it, but also what you saw on screen. 313 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,880 But I wonder if we're not actually culturally British, and 314 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,240 I wonder if we haven't been seeing as much of that recently 315 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,640 and in fact, the game that sort of, you know, thank goodness you're here. 316 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,160 Did you play? I don't know if you had a chance to play. Thank goodness you're here. 317 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,280 I mean, 318 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,040 yeah, only works in Britain, right? 319 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,040 Because of it's set in a very particular part of the UK. 320 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,040 But you've had, you know, we talked with Danny Wallace earlier. 321 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,640 I think Sue Perkins, you've worked with the in the past. 322 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,040 Right. 323 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,280 So you've had sort of British elements in, in some of your titles in the past. 324 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,640 Do you think we will ever see some of that sort of come, 325 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,360 come around again or we are living in sort of an amalgam of culture now where 326 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,200 when it comes to movies and television and games, it's all sort of Hollywood 327 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,760 or actually increasingly South Korean influence or whatever. 328 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,840 I just interesting to see if, if you think that there's still space for 329 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,080 Britishness, quote unquote, in, in games of the future. 330 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,640 Yeah. 331 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,200 Yeah. 332 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,280 Oh, wow. 333 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,080 Yeah. 334 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,080 Also, just, certainly having a compete for more Welsh, 335 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,360 accents in video games because they're not that many. 336 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:19,640 Mike. 337 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,640 So just saying. 338 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,120 I mean, we could. 339 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,200 Well, you know, I'm happy to, 340 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,400 your best half will want to have, you know, a Welsh voice in your next game. 341 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,360 Just saying. You know, if you happen to know. 342 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,440 Anyway, as broadcasters with the relatively thick accent. 343 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,000 Well. 344 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,200 Well, It's just a lack of Hey, 345 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,160 I thought you were a starter. 346 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,840 I thought you were a, you know, come on, 347 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,240 come on. 348 00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:58,600 It's, We're talking about this. 349 00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,920 I'm British in games and. Interesting. 350 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,440 You touched upon it, earlier with your sort of discovery of 351 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,720 of Doctor Who later on in, in sort of your, your sci fi journey, 352 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,520 this sort of lack of and I've had this conversation 353 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,440 with, with Russell T Davies, lots of people who are sort of across, 354 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,160 Doctor Russell T Davies is the show. 355 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,960 He's the is the showrunner of Doctor Who, so he's sort of in charge. 356 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,000 And, I make a TV show about how they make the TV show, 357 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,760 and I've asked him a few times, like Doctor Who in games. 358 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,720 Isn't that a thing there? 359 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:29,160 And it's never quite. It's never quite happened. 360 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:29,920 If there's never been, like, 361 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,040 a Doctor Who game and I wonder, you know, you're you're upset if I gave. 362 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:34,640 You've talked about it. 363 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,880 I wonder if you ever thought about trying to to to bridge that gap. 364 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,880 I wonder why it hasn't happened. 365 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,920 Yeah. 366 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,840 I think that I'd expect. 367 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,720 Yeah, there are experiences out there, but. 368 00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:45,520 And I've often wondered, I think, you know, 369 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:46,880 it's definitely got the fan base for it. 370 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,920 I think also a challenge is, is that the doctor doesn't shoot anyone, 371 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,000 you know, and often the mechanic in the, you know, in a game, 372 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,800 an action game where you're playing a sci fi hero, what do you shoot? 373 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,480 You know, like a, you know, Star Wars games. 374 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,880 Yeah. Shoot someone. 375 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,480 The Star Trek game you referenced earlier as a first person shooter, you know? 376 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:07,440 So, yeah. 377 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,960 So it's it is an interesting challenge, isn't it, for someone. 378 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,480 Someone someone is going to crack it, surely. Because I think they'd be. 379 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,080 I mean, no doubt they'd be open, to a conversation. 380 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,720 But if it was the right, if it was the right idea. 381 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:19,800 But, so if it's not you. 382 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,520 Well, it should be like someone will someone will come up with the idea, 383 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,360 no doubt. 384 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,840 So what do you play talking about your your sort of love of games? 385 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,440 Mike, is the games that you play, what are those? 386 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,240 What do you unwind with? 387 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,120 It's a good show. 388 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,400 So it's it's it's so fluid and the gameplay 389 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,640 is so brilliant. 390 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,800 Yeah. 391 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:14,800 The peak peaks. 392 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,800 Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. 393 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,000 Yeah, yeah. 394 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,080 What's wrong with this? 395 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,080 Yeah. 396 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,240 I haven't played the drifter. 397 00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,240 that was great. 398 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,240 Okay. 399 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,000 Sounds amazing. 400 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,960 I'm going to stick that on the list. 401 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,960 Yeah. 402 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,080 Yeah. 403 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,640 Oh, brilliant. 404 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,320 So it's it's it's I mean, you're quite like you're feeling 405 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,400 quite positive about the, the sort of future 406 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,200 because think you've you've already touched upon it. 407 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,760 It was tough 2025 for you having to make some layoffs to the company 408 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,600 and things not quite go into plan. 409 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,680 How do you feel you know about this year and the years 410 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,680 ahead? 411 00:41:46,080 --> 00:42:16,040 But, Yeah, 412 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,480 but and does that because. 413 00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:22,720 Yeah. 414 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:29,920 And is that 415 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,080 because, it draws like a big I guess it will pull new players in. 416 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,040 Right. And then. No. Said no. I enjoy playing that. 417 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,080 I want to try something else. 418 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,800 But I do want to spend another $100 on a game or whatever that's going to cost. 419 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,080 And so I might spend ten on this, split the type over here. 420 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,360 And that's really fun. I'll try another one. 421 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,680 Yeah. 422 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,120 Yeah. 423 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,720 Yeah, I think I think it's because maybe I know 424 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:05,760 there was a new Mario Kart with it, but that was it, isn't it? 425 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,040 I think software ultimately sells. 426 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,600 It gets more attention. 427 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,120 Right than than hardware does. And that's why I was a big fan. 428 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,120 I thought E3 was an important event that we used to have every year that LA 429 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:16,880 is a big gaming show because it got 430 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,320 I used to be center for the BBC, for example, you know, and that's that. 431 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,480 And you, you'd see gaming in places you don't normally normally see it. 432 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,720 Because I still think do you, do you ever get frustrated 433 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:29,840 the fact that game is a scene 434 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,480 because I know you're on your podcast, obviously about television and film 435 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,600 and other parts of culture that we're still I, I'm asking people this 436 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,400 a lot and people move on to the conversation, 437 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,800 but I'm just fascinated by this idea of why games still isn't 438 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,560 thought of necessarily in the same way by the gent, by the man 439 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,040 on the Clapham omnibus, or whatever 440 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,400 the saying is for the that you median person in the UK. 441 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,000 I do find it fascinating that it hasn't 442 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,000 cut through in that sense, so I thought it would have done by now. 443 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,360 Did it? 444 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,360 Yeah. 445 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,920 And Star Trek taught you all of this? 446 00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:34,640 Okay. 447 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:34,920 Thanks. 448 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,920 I if I. 449 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,760 Yeah. 450 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,320 Yeah. 451 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,160 Yeah. 452 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,960 games 453 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,960 Yeah. 454 00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:40,240 Yeah. 455 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,160 Yeah. 456 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,360 Yeah. 457 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:48,880 Yeah. 458 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,600 Yeah. 459 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,160 Well, Mike, listen, it's been a joy talking to you. 460 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,440 Thank you so much for your time. So, 461 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,960 well, I go to cut, I let's let's turn into a positive. 462 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,080 Just to finish off, I suppose when you look back at your 463 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,320 your 15 years and all the different stuff you've been able to achieve with your, 464 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,560 with your company in the games that you've made and things. 465 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:07,080 What's that? 466 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,200 What what makes you proudest and what makes you smile the most? 467 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,640 And what should people get excited about that you're working on? 468 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,640 Oh, you're the guy available soon or now or. 469 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,920 Yeah. 470 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:43,800 Oh, exciting. 471 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,120 Well, we're looking forward to that. And. Yeah. 472 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:45,600 Play watch. 473 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,760 Listen, we've had Austin on. 474 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,000 We've had, you know, on Mike. 475 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,920 Now we've got to get a liner again and then we can get all 476 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,520 we said we will have done. We've done play. We've done watch. 477 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,040 Now we need to do listen. 478 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,960 So we've done all three of the of the elements. 479 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,600 Mike it's been it's been a joy chatting with you. 480 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,640 Thank you so much for giving us your time has been really fascinating. 481 00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,440 And getting your take on how you've got to where you are 482 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,360 and your take on the current situation of stuff. 483 00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,680 And, and maybe the germ of an idea for the first big Doctor 484 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:13,800 Who game we've had in ages. 485 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,240 Maybe it's maybe that maybe that happened today. 486 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:18,920 Yeah, yeah. 487 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,040 Mike. Cheers, mate. 488 00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,760 All the best. 489 00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:23,000 Right. 490 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,800 Congratulations for being with us till the very end for beating the end, boss. 491 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,440 You x beasts. 492 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,320 We can be back in your feeds once again next Tuesday. 493 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,440 Until then, look after yourselves and keep busy on the discord. 494 00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:34,920 See you soon.