Hello. How's it going?
Welcome along to another episode of press X to continue it.
Is Stefan Powell here holding the fort for you whilst I is away?
Being a a theater star, treading the boards
all over the UK with his stage show.
But look, fear not okay?
We have got another special episode with an extra
special guest for you this week to keep you busy and enlightened here
on press X to continue and to sit down.
Or if you're standing up, you can sit down.
Don't worry.
Just just get yourself comfortable in the brain.
You know, when you mind, get comfy, whatever you are,
wrap your use around this conversation.
We've had with one of the brightest minds making games in the UK at the moment.
It's a big sell, but frankly, it's true.
Now, before I tell you more about who it is, you already know who it is
because it says it on the episode description, isn't it? To be fair.
So look, just a reminder, please.
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Keep up the good work and please join in if you've got a chance to do it.
Just yet.
Now you might have played one of these games like Thomas Was Alone,
which won a BAFTA for the performance of Danny Wallace, the comedian in that game.
Maybe you played John Wilkes X, seen it on the App Store.
You've played that.
How about Tron Identity or Tron Catalyst?
Maybe you've tried Volume or Solitaire Conspiracy.
Maybe you haven't heard any of them. Right.
But these are some of the most, significant independent
games made from the UK the last ten, 15 years.
Right.
Mike Bithell is the brains behind all of them.
And he's joined us on press X
to talk about his journey in making independent games.
What worked, what didn't everything in between.
It's a it's a really cool chat.
We've had quite a broad ranging chat as well.
But his journey
to making games, some advice for people who want to go and make games.
And we also talk about podcasts actually as well, because he's
one of the team that make a podcast called play Watch.
What does he play watch, listen, which is brilliant.
And you should go and check it out.
Actually, after you've listened to this. Of course.
So listen, stick with us for a really fascinating chat with Mike.
I'm definitely thinking to get loads out of it.
So yeah, welcome along to this episode of press X to continue.
And I a special episode with one for only Mike Bithell.
the obvious
place to start is for some people with some of a community or tuning on to
this will will know the name might, but might not necessarily be aware
of all of your sort of the ins and outs of your career
and the stuff that you've made and you've been,
you've had such a varied career and sort of the cool stuff that you've done
which will come and touch upon.
But how would you introduce yourself at parties, Mike?
When.
Oh, hey, this is my mate Mike.
The Bissell.
Yeah, this is it.
No. No, no. Do it.
Yeah.
Why not?
Yeah.
Did you always want to be a games maker?
Then when did that sort of happen for you?
Will you, was I wasn't very good
child actor, which is why now I make video hahahahahahahaha.
What did you, Did we win anything that we might have seen?
Michael.
Is it.
good looking enough to play.
And band, you know?
So I, And so there you are. You.
You're 15.
You've been told you're not handsome enough to be, Nicholas Cage.
And and so you always clearly wanted to do something creative.
And Michael obviously.
This is amazing.
Yeah.
On the Dreamcast is a beautiful game.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Wow. So that's a Shen who's got a lot to answer for.
Yeah. Mike.
Yeah.
And so you end up sort of starting
to work in games development and and creating games.
Did you always want to sort of have control
over the titles you made, or did you enjoy being part of a team,
part of a greater haul in terms of that, that experience, or did you always.
No, no, no, no, I want to be number one.
I want it to be my ideas and be in charge.
Yeah.
Wow. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Yeah.
And that meeting then with your with your boss when you're like. Oh.
So this is, this is it was that.
Were you excited. Were you scared.
What was your sort of emotion at that point.
Yeah.
I mean.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
Yeah.
And in a, in an industry that has been so up and down and chopped
and changed and,
and, and everybody sort of in the middle of one of those periods at the moment to,
to, to have been doing it for so long is, is is a heck of an achievement, isn't it?
So, some of the
I suppose you didn't imagine at the time that you, when you, when you
release that game in your spare time that it would lead to this.
Right. That was never the grand plan. I suppose.
Oh, yeah.
Jazzy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
five years I
Yeah.
The long way round.
Yeah yeah yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
To being realistic is very, quite a British thing, isn't it?
I suppose.
Yeah.
So, like you were saying, you've gone on then to develop
with your company lots of, of different things in different genres,
like you say on your website, you tend to focus on sci fi,
sort of settings and things.
So I have to ask, what is your what's your favorite sci fi setting?
What inspired you to want to be to be a sci fi
dude?
Oh, is it?
Yeah.
So you were in the in the 90s.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And to.
Yeah.
And has it did it to teach you stuff,
or did you learn things by your fandom that you've then applied in your,
in your day job.
Yeah.
Was very diverse, very inclusive wasn't it.
Yeah.
Yeah yeah you can.
But it's like it's actually,
you know, being the cleverest person in the room, which I am never.
But you know, it's
I don't know, it's
not speaking from experience, but I can imagine being the cleverest
puts the room sometimes, you know, and not and not coming across like a,
like a book is actually quite hard, isn't it?
Yeah.
So I wonder actually,
because obviously
we we've got this feature on the podcast where we talk about people's unsung
hero games, which is a game that maybe doesn't get the plaudits it deserves.
It doesn't get the recognition.
Well, I was wondering, I imagine that you might have
a Star Trek game that there could be your unsung hero game
because you can't you can't see one of your own games.
Mike is the unsung hero game because we going to talk plenty about your games.
Yeah.
That's it. Yeah.
That's it.
Yeah.
That's they, they've got he's got one of his games, got a BAFTA.
So come on Danny what is Danny.
What is what a BAFTA feels right.
Yeah.
it holds up and
Ha ha
ha ha ha.
Yeah.
So talking obviously, you know, a lot of people listening to
this will will come because, either they know your work and really enjoy it
or they listen to us, or they want to be game
designers, developers, and they look at you
as a successful person in the British games industry
who's made it work for 15 years.
It's been your you've, you know, career being able to make games.
What would you what advice would you give people now because that
like you've already touched upon, the landscape is very different today
as it was when you started all those years ago.
Yeah.
That's great advice because we've had the similar question people have.
But this podcast, because we obviously doing our independent podcast that is done
for the love of it by by a crew of people that that get a kick out of it.
On whether or not we become the most watched or listen to podcasts in
the world is unlikely, but we are having fun making it.
We get to chat, interesting people argue, and then you get a
you get a kick out of it regardless. Then it's hard.
Then when when you do something because you're thinking about the pounds
in the pen sometimes, or the career progression and all that sort of stuff,
because that that's when it starts to get a bit muddled and muddied, isn't it?
We both do.
It's fine.
It's right.
Yeah.
And because it is, it's difficult sometimes for people not to get
swept up in, especially if you go and work for it for a company or whatever,
and you and that are making because it definitely feels like to me.
I wonder if you agree or disagree.
As someone who makes what we would call classes independent games, right?
Indie games, there seems to be like a two tranches of an industry
that we live in at the moment, and the stuff that we, we consume.
There's the big Triple-A, if you will, titles
that are chasing the same sort of financial monetization schemes.
So are off to them, free to play games
that will get you to pay monthly, or they'll cost a massive amount of
money upfront.
And they're so massive and big in scope,
you could even conceive of putting that together on your own.
And then you've got smaller companies that are able to do
be nimble and do more different things.
But obviously the scale is smaller.
And I suppose often sometimes people think that they have to do the thing
at the top, right. But I suppose you don't you don't have to.
You don't have to. That's not that's not what a game necessarily is.
Yeah. SIM.
Well of course, of course.
No no no.
Yet that's that's a, that's a, that's a advice.
That is.
Yeah.
Yeah I know and of course it keeps slipping.
Everybody's. It keeps it. Okay. We'll put it out this time. We.
Oh no wait. No we can't do that.
Let's pull it forward or let's push it back.
Let's, let's whatever.
Yeah.
You know that decision we made a couple of months?
I said, can we change it? Yeah, absolutely.
You also have made games that are played a lot on mobile devices.
And, I mean, just because we don't, I don't
we talk about mobile games here and, you know, sometimes, again,
thought of as another thing when it's just as it's
just as much a part of the games industry is playing a game with a console,
PC or whatever.
Well, financially.
Absolutely.
And also you've got a wider
audience base in terms of, you know, demographic, right?
The people who can play courses on the app stores or whatever,
how tricky is it to navigate that space?
Because it's interesting.
Like if you're like,
if you just go on your store and you want to just get a game to play
while you're on a table on the train or whatever,
or you're just, you know, busy, it is.
You are bombarded with up with options.
And as someone who has sometimes choice anxiety, it's like, well, where to start?
So how would you navigate that as a creator trying to,
you know, to get some space in there?
Yeah.
Wow. Yeah.
Wow. That.
Yeah.
That came that, It's so it's so good, isn't it?
Schizo addictive.
Just just dropped by.
I mean, I was playing a lawnmower sim at one point, which I was.
I was advocating for people. So, you know, this stuff you get.
But it is because it is like it is such a big part of the game space,
though, and games and creators and people who want to get into
I think, oh, well, maybe we can try to do that.
But it is like you
say, it's hard to it's hard to try and break into there and therefore,
no, I'm just gonna say,
therefore you feel confident that, that there's enough people
wanting to spend money to pay you for games, that you've not pivoted
to, those sort of free to play type experiences.
Yeah.
Now I really wanted to talk to you because I knew obviously
you were coming on to on today about this thing that we've touched upon
a couple of times and on the podcast, but not in sort of any, any depth.
And we, we spoke about a couple of weeks ago,
we had Che Thompson on, we were talking about what we're excited for for 2026,
and I was talking about fable because I remember the fable games,
because of their, their Britishness, if you will.
You know, we we Stephen Fry was in a fable game, you know what I mean?
There was there was, there were British gags and,
and I suppose that was an, an era where Britain
really punched above its weight and still does in the indie game space.
But in terms of not just in terms of the creative vision behind the game
and those who create created it, but also what you saw on screen.
But I wonder if we're not actually culturally British, and
I wonder if we haven't been seeing as much of that recently
and in fact, the game that sort of, you know, thank goodness you're here.
Did you play? I don't know if you had a chance to play. Thank goodness you're here.
I mean,
yeah, only works in Britain, right?
Because of it's set in a very particular part of the UK.
But you've had, you know, we talked with Danny Wallace earlier.
I think Sue Perkins, you've worked with the in the past.
Right.
So you've had sort of British elements in, in some of your titles in the past.
Do you think we will ever see some of that sort of come,
come around again or we are living in sort of an amalgam of culture now where
when it comes to movies and television and games, it's all sort of Hollywood
or actually increasingly South Korean influence or whatever.
I just interesting to see if, if you think that there's still space for
Britishness, quote unquote, in, in games of the future.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Also, just, certainly having a compete for more Welsh,
accents in video games because they're not that many.
Mike.
So just saying.
I mean, we could.
Well, you know, I'm happy to,
your best half will want to have, you know, a Welsh voice in your next game.
Just saying. You know, if you happen to know.
Anyway, as broadcasters with the relatively thick accent.
Well.
Well, It's just a lack of Hey,
I thought you were a starter.
I thought you were a, you know, come on,
come on.
It's, We're talking about this.
I'm British in games and. Interesting.
You touched upon it, earlier with your sort of discovery of
of Doctor Who later on in, in sort of your, your sci fi journey,
this sort of lack of and I've had this conversation
with, with Russell T Davies, lots of people who are sort of across,
Doctor Russell T Davies is the show.
He's the is the showrunner of Doctor Who, so he's sort of in charge.
And, I make a TV show about how they make the TV show,
and I've asked him a few times, like Doctor Who in games.
Isn't that a thing there?
And it's never quite. It's never quite happened.
If there's never been, like,
a Doctor Who game and I wonder, you know, you're you're upset if I gave.
You've talked about it.
I wonder if you ever thought about trying to to to bridge that gap.
I wonder why it hasn't happened.
Yeah.
I think that I'd expect.
Yeah, there are experiences out there, but.
And I've often wondered, I think, you know,
it's definitely got the fan base for it.
I think also a challenge is, is that the doctor doesn't shoot anyone,
you know, and often the mechanic in the, you know, in a game,
an action game where you're playing a sci fi hero, what do you shoot?
You know, like a, you know, Star Wars games.
Yeah. Shoot someone.
The Star Trek game you referenced earlier as a first person shooter, you know?
So, yeah.
So it's it is an interesting challenge, isn't it, for someone.
Someone someone is going to crack it, surely. Because I think they'd be.
I mean, no doubt they'd be open, to a conversation.
But if it was the right, if it was the right idea.
But, so if it's not you.
Well, it should be like someone will someone will come up with the idea,
no doubt.
So what do you play talking about your your sort of love of games?
Mike, is the games that you play, what are those?
What do you unwind with?
It's a good show.
So it's it's it's so fluid and the gameplay
is so brilliant.
Yeah.
The peak peaks.
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
What's wrong with this?
Yeah.
I haven't played the drifter.
that was great.
Okay.
Sounds amazing.
I'm going to stick that on the list.
Yeah.
Oh, brilliant.
So it's it's it's I mean, you're quite like you're feeling
quite positive about the, the sort of future
because think you've you've already touched upon it.
It was tough 2025 for you having to make some layoffs to the company
and things not quite go into plan.
How do you feel you know about this year and the years
ahead?
But, Yeah,
but and does that because.
Yeah.
And is that
because, it draws like a big I guess it will pull new players in.
Right. And then. No. Said no. I enjoy playing that.
I want to try something else.
But I do want to spend another $100 on a game or whatever that's going to cost.
And so I might spend ten on this, split the type over here.
And that's really fun. I'll try another one.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think I think it's because maybe I know
there was a new Mario Kart with it, but that was it, isn't it?
I think software ultimately sells.
It gets more attention.
Right than than hardware does. And that's why I was a big fan.
I thought E3 was an important event that we used to have every year that LA
is a big gaming show because it got
I used to be center for the BBC, for example, you know, and that's that.
And you, you'd see gaming in places you don't normally normally see it.
Because I still think do you, do you ever get frustrated
the fact that game is a scene
because I know you're on your podcast, obviously about television and film
and other parts of culture that we're still I, I'm asking people this
a lot and people move on to the conversation,
but I'm just fascinated by this idea of why games still isn't
thought of necessarily in the same way by the gent, by the man
on the Clapham omnibus, or whatever
the saying is for the that you median person in the UK.
I do find it fascinating that it hasn't
cut through in that sense, so I thought it would have done by now.
Did it?
Yeah.
And Star Trek taught you all of this?
Okay.
Thanks.
I if I.
Yeah.
games
Yeah.
Well, Mike, listen, it's been a joy talking to you.
Thank you so much for your time. So,
well, I go to cut, I let's let's turn into a positive.
Just to finish off, I suppose when you look back at your
your 15 years and all the different stuff you've been able to achieve with your,
with your company in the games that you've made and things.
What's that?
What what makes you proudest and what makes you smile the most?
And what should people get excited about that you're working on?
Oh, you're the guy available soon or now or.
Yeah.
Oh, exciting.
Well, we're looking forward to that. And. Yeah.
Play watch.
Listen, we've had Austin on.
We've had, you know, on Mike.
Now we've got to get a liner again and then we can get all
we said we will have done. We've done play. We've done watch.
Now we need to do listen.
So we've done all three of the of the elements.
Mike it's been it's been a joy chatting with you.
Thank you so much for giving us your time has been really fascinating.
And getting your take on how you've got to where you are
and your take on the current situation of stuff.
And, and maybe the germ of an idea for the first big Doctor
Who game we've had in ages.
Maybe it's maybe that maybe that happened today.
Yeah, yeah.
Mike. Cheers, mate.
All the best.
Right.
Congratulations for being with us till the very end for beating the end, boss.
You x beasts.
We can be back in your feeds once again next Tuesday.
Until then, look after yourselves and keep busy on the discord.
See you soon.