Jayne Ray: Hi everyone, I'm Jane Ray, here with my, fabulous podcast partner.

Andreas Stein: Andrea Stein, Jane, great to see you.

Jayne Ray: You too, and welcome to another episode of Joyous Journeys Over 60. I hope your journeys this past week have been fulfilling and fabulous.

Jayne Ray: how are you doing, Andreas?

Andreas Stein: You're not getting over a cold, so if you hear a little cracking in my voice, I'm kind of on the tail end of it, you know, so not back to 100%.

Andreas Stein: But overall, I'm feeling quite good.

Jayne Ray: If you notice, we're both in, like, sweatshirts, and hoodies in Florida. It's cold here, I mean, by our definition of cold, maybe not in your definition of cold, but we're very, very climatized. This morning, it was 42.

Jayne Ray: Sunday, with the wind chill, I heard it's gonna be, like, 29 Fahrenheit, so again, you have to kind of think of that in terms of Floridian. For us, that's, like, minus 10.

Jayne Ray: Right? We're dragging out… I have more winter clothes this year than I have ever had before. I mean, you can't see, but I'm wearing sweatpants and a sweatshirt, and this morning I took the dog out with a hoodie on and gloves.

Andreas Stein: Oh, yeah.

Jayne Ray: You know, we look like little Eskimos.

Andreas Stein: Any temperature below 70 is unacceptable.

Jayne Ray: Well, in the morning, yeah, I mean, no kidding. If you've lived in Florida for any sense of time, any temperature below 50 is Arctic winter for us, and we know that a lot of folks

Jayne Ray: have recently really had some pretty serious storms, so… Hasn't snowed here in Fort Myers, but it did snow in Pensacola, so, so, so there you go.

Jayne Ray: So today, I think we're gonna take a little bit of a step back.

Jayne Ray: And talk about pre-retirement. You know, there's this term that's floating out there on social, pre-tirement. Financial advisors have been using that term a lot, mostly to talk about preparing your money, and your retirement assets, for, when you do retire, but for us.

Jayne Ray: I kind of want to focus, Andreas, a little bit on if I knew then what I know now about the emotional side of retirement, I'd be a little surprised, right, that some of the emotions that came up

Jayne Ray: were completely unexpected. Now, you're not that close to retirement.

Andreas Stein: I am not that close, I'm, you know, 54 and a half or so, so I realistically still have, I don't know, 10 years at least to go, or something like this, but it's close enough…

Andreas Stein: You know that I start to think every so often about it, you know, what I could do to be prepared, what I need to do to be prepared.

Andreas Stein: And to just listen to people. So, Jane, you're on the other side of the Golden River. You have reached the promised land of retirement. You, you know, you look back. What advice, what would you tell me to…

Andreas Stein: to be on the lookout for, to be prepared for? What advice would you give someone like me, who still has a few years to go, to get to the Promised Land?

Jayne Ray: Well, you know, certainly, I think most of the preparation that's discussed universally is preparing yourself in terms of, you know, what your finances are gonna look like, where you're gonna live.

Jayne Ray: You know, things like, getting fit, right, so that you're in the best shape ever when you retire. You know, looking at, you know, what your insurance situation's gonna be like.

Jayne Ray: Whether you're gonna go into Medicare when you're 65, or if you're gonna retire before 65, you know, all of those practicalities, and when you get close to retirement, you get flooded with lots of information and reach-outs from financial advisors, and…

Jayne Ray: from Medicare agents and, you know, from, you go on YouTube and you look at all the fitness videos of people over 60, and that's important. I mean, not minimizing the importance of that. I think what people don't expect

Jayne Ray: Is that there is an emotional transition from when you are a worker to when you're retired and you have all of this freedom.

Jayne Ray: that when you envision it, you know, before you retire, you're thinking, well, okay, this is gonna be great. I don't report to anybody, I could sleep late, I can play golf or tennis, or, you know, hang around in my pajamas all day, I could do whatever the heck I want, when I've really pretty much been

Jayne Ray: tethered to my job, my boss, my family, you know, it's not like you don't have your family, but, you know, all of that, and then suddenly, you have

Jayne Ray: This vision of what retirement's going to look like.

Jayne Ray: And let's assume that you've planned your money, and where you're gonna live, and all of that stuff, right? You have this vision, and you get there, and, you know, your heart…

Jayne Ray: is… me.

Jayne Ray: But your heart is also confused.

Jayne Ray: Right? I mean, there's so many emotions. We were talking before we recorded about roller coasters. It is a rollercoaster of emotions. And, and, you know, we both said we hate roller coasters, so… We do. So here you go.

Andreas Stein: I'm not like roller coasters, no.

Jayne Ray: It is a rollercoaster of emotions, and there's a surprise there, that it isn't like you sail into retirement smoothly and easily, you know, with no regrets, with no fears, with no insecurities. I mean, all of those things come up.

Jayne Ray: Whether you're married, whether you're on your own, it just… you know, humans are gonna feel what they're gonna feel. And it is… it was very, very surprising to me that I had so many emotions and different emotions on different days.

Andreas Stein: Let me ask you this, Jane, from… advice from the Promised Land. I know I love what I'm doing, you know, as a pastor, I enjoy… I mean, there's bad days, obviously, you know, and… but for the most part, you know,

Andreas Stein: it excites me, it, you know, it fires me up, it gives me a reason. I'm a morning person to get up at 4am. I love that. You know, I… and as soon as I am up, I, okay, what are the things I can do, I need to do?

Andreas Stein: It creates this, genuine excitement of enthusiasm, dopamine rush, you know? And then, of course, it comes down.

Andreas Stein: On the other side of the Golden River, in the Promised Land, what provides that kind of emotional excitement, this kind of dopamine rush, what does it provide for you?

Jayne Ray: I think in the beginning, it comes from just that sense of freedom. Now remember, in most cases, not in my case, but in most cases, you choose to retire, right? So it is a choice, and in most cases, you pick a retirement date.

Jayne Ray: Right? So, you have enough time in advance to be able to, you know, think about that, to wind down from whatever your work was, but you have to realize that, like you just said, Andreas, your sense of identity is very much tied to that feeling.

Jayne Ray: that you had when you were working, that sense of excitement. Now, maybe you're bored with your job, maybe you're just over it, right? Maybe you just can't wait to retire because you don't feel the way that you described. But I think that

Jayne Ray: Because most people choose to retire, their first emotion is gonna be…

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: Right?

Jayne Ray: And then, wait a week, wait a month, wait a couple of months, and that emotion changes, right? Because all of that energy you were pouring into your pride, forget your work and, you know, what you actually did, the pride in what you were doing.

Jayne Ray: The engagement you had with other people, the successes you had, and even some of the failures, all that energy is still there.

Jayne Ray: And I think there's a restlessness that retired people feel, that they don't know what to do with it, because they're not pouring it into that. Some choose to go back to work, many choose to volunteer, and I think that's a great way to take your energy and

Jayne Ray: pour it into something, you know, that's meaningful to you. For me, my suggestion would be find something

Jayne Ray: may be new.

Jayne Ray: that you're not great at, or you've been interested in and you never really had a chance to explore it further. Find something new that you can start to feel those small senses of accomplishment.

Jayne Ray: Because it's the sense of accomplishment, I think, that really helps you into retirement. I'll just say one more thing.

Jayne Ray: one of the… one of the things that was bad for me when I retired, and I… I delayed retirement because of it, is I didn't really feel like I had any hobbies.

Jayne Ray: work was my hobby, right? And so, I was afraid, like, my husband plays golf, and so he plays golf 3 times a week, he's really happy to do that. He came into retirement knowing that he plays golf.

Jayne Ray: I came into retirement knowing I'm not crafty, I don't have the patience to sit and play cards, like, so I really had to find something…

Jayne Ray: knew. And I thought it was going to be this volunteer work that I was doing, with SCORE, and I said SCORE's a great organization, but it wasn't it. It wasn't…

Jayne Ray: I don't know, I didn't feel that same feeling.

Jayne Ray: And and I found a couple of other things.

Andreas Stein: Now, I understand, Jane, that since retirement, you've become kind of an art collector. Is that kind of what provides excitement for you, collecting art?

Jayne Ray: It drains my wallet. Actually, we're accidental art collectors, because, you know, you start on a cruise by going to the auction and getting the free crappy champagne, and the next thing you know, you're hanging stuff on your walls. So, it wasn't art. Actually, for me, it was a couple of things. This podcast…

Jayne Ray: definitely one of them. You know, talking to you about this gap, that I felt that is there for retirees, and we don't talk about our feelings.

Andreas Stein: Mmm.

Jayne Ray: Gardening. You know, I like gardening, I'm not really good at it, so every time something grows that I can eat, and is actually edible, I feel a small senses of accomplishment, sometimes senses of failure, but isn't that how you build.

Andreas Stein: Yes?

Jayne Ray: And then a little bit of tennis, something I had done when I was younger, and, I keep working at it again, you know, ups and downs, and sideways, and…

Jayne Ray: But, but finding a place to channel that energy, and when I say that energy, something that…

Jayne Ray: you look at videos about, like, I look at videos about gardening, you know, I look at, you know, how do you do a podcast? Something that engages your heart, but also engages your mind. And again, think about when you started whatever career you had.

Jayne Ray: you had to start at the bottom, right? Right. And every time you felt like you had moved to the next level, there was a really good sense of accomplishment. So, it is finding… it's not denying, first of all, that that energy needs to be channeled. I think that's the biggest problem retirees face.

Jayne Ray: Is that they…

Jayne Ray: They hold onto the past, they don't know, or they're afraid to try something new, and so they stall.

Jayne Ray: And then… and then you become bored and frustrated and anxious, you know, that retirement isn't what you thought it was gonna be. You just kind of stagnate.

Jayne Ray: Try something, whatever it is, try something. You may not be good at it, or it may not be the right thing, but, you know, you try.

Andreas Stein: You know, it's the beauty for… You know… of everyday…

Andreas Stein: Life, it sounds a little bit generic, but…

Andreas Stein: you know, this excitement about something, and then sometimes there's… yes, it… the excitement leads to success, and sometimes the excitement leads to disappointment because it didn't work out, and you know, then you pick yourself up and try it again, you know, or try something different, you know, but it's this…

Andreas Stein: this emotional flow, you know, that reaches height, it goes low, and it's amazing, it's wonderful. And for me, you know, looking ahead to retirement.

Andreas Stein: I would love to continue to have that experience, you know, probably in a different field, you know, the sense of, wow, I did this, this is excitement, let me try this, it didn't work out, you know, for me, kind of the…

Andreas Stein: fear about retirement would be that everything is kind of, you know, gray, steady, one flat line, you know. Not that the flat line is horrible.

Andreas Stein: But it is those swings that are… that make life fascinating.

Jayne Ray: Well, a flat line means you're dead, so it's not necessarily a good thing, right?

Andreas Stein: Right.

Jayne Ray: But I think also to set the expectation is that every day is different, right? So you don't wake up excited every day.

Andreas Stein: No!

Jayne Ray: Don't wake up knowing what you're gonna do today. You, you, you go through so many different emotions,

Jayne Ray: you know, being insecure about your capabilities, worrying about your physical, side of it, worrying that, you're not good enough anymore, you know, just worrying, is a very, very common emotion in retirement. I think that boredom.

Jayne Ray: You know, even if you try something new, it isn't something you necessarily can do every single day of every, you know, every minute of every day.

Jayne Ray: So, there are days where you just don't know what to do with yourself.

Jayne Ray: Depression days, where you feel like, you know, the best of whoever you were is behind you.

Jayne Ray: Instead of in front of you, and so you have to expect

Jayne Ray: And you probably felt that way before you retired, where you had just good days, bad days, days you just couldn't pin why you weren't feeling, you know, you were just feeling blue. I think because you have more time to think when you're retired, and you have less routine.

Jayne Ray: But I think right now, Jane, if I have a boring…

Andreas Stein: day, or hours, or whatever else, I almost…

Andreas Stein: Oh, it's kind of enjoying, because I know it's not gonna last. This is not gonna be the rest of, you know, tomorrow will be different, so it's like, okay, I kind of really enjoy being bored, you know, because I, you know… and yeah, they're obviously… everyone feels down, depressed, you know, at times, and

Andreas Stein: At this stage, I'm not getting…

Andreas Stein: excited about it, or concerned about it, because I know the next phone call, the next, you know, work-related issue will change all of that stuff, you know.

Andreas Stein: And… and for me, this is kind of, alright, once I get into the promised land.

Andreas Stein: Is it just gonna be continuous?

Andreas Stein: golden boredom, or I want to continue to have these emotional excitements, and am I, you know, and so I want to know if there's boredom, that this is just a day, and not just a common melody of

Andreas Stein: This is how it's gonna be now, moving forward.

Jayne Ray: But what if you're bored for a week, or a month, or… you know what I mean? Like, you just haven't found whatever that is. And so I'm just trying to set the expectation.

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: That…

Jayne Ray: I think we're not prepared for the fact that it's not going to be boring continuously unless you let it be boring.

Andreas Stein: Right?

Jayne Ray: And…

Andreas Stein: That's a good point.

Jayne Ray: But it's not like work, where you were bored on the weekend, and Monday morning you went back to work, and, you know, life happened, and the phone call came, and what if the phone call doesn't come when you're retired?

Andreas Stein: Right.

Jayne Ray: I guess the message is that you have to be prepared for the fact that

Jayne Ray: Mentally, you're going to feel a lot of different emotions on any given day.

Jayne Ray: But I think the other part of it is that you have to be brave enough.

Jayne Ray: And I use the word brave.

Jayne Ray: You have to be brave enough.

Jayne Ray: 2… Find something.

Jayne Ray: That sparks your interest.

Jayne Ray: Right? It doesn't have to be something you're passionate about, it's something that sparks your interest, something that you're interested in exploring.

Jayne Ray: And it doesn't have to be physical, like tennis, or it doesn't have to be something like a podcast, or it could be, you know, you always wanted to learn how to crochet, or you always wanted to, read, you know, something about history. A woman I met just, started studying wine.

Jayne Ray: Because, not to sell wine, not to make money at it, but just to understand how wine is grown, and the science behind it, and whatever. So, there's all sorts of different things, but you have to just kind of…

Jayne Ray: Allow yourself, kind of a childlike approach.

Andreas Stein: Right? That when you were a child, you…

Jayne Ray: would try different things until you found something that you were interested in or good at, but it's up to you. Nobody's gonna tell you at this stage what to do. Your boss told you what to do.

Andreas Stein: Right.

Jayne Ray: kids told you what to do, right? Your spouse may have told you what to do, but there was routine. At this stage of your life, there's less routine, if any.

Jayne Ray: Right? And you don't want your life to just be filled with doctor appointments and Netflix binges, you know what I mean? Like, there's a point where you have to tell you…

Jayne Ray: what you're going to do, and you have to be prepared that it is not a flat line, right? That it is going to be that horrible rollercoaster

Jayne Ray: again, we don't like roller coasters, but that horrible roller coaster where you get to the top, and you're all excited, and then you drop down, and the adrenaline comes, and you really want off this ride, right? And then it goes up again, right? So, I think if I knew then what I know now.

Jayne Ray: I might be… not prepared, because you're never prepared for emotions, but I think I might… Except the fact…

Jayne Ray: that, after that honeymoon stage, which most people go through, there's gonna be something where I have to propel myself.

Jayne Ray: Does that make sense?

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: I mean, again, you're… I can see, because, you know, now I know you well enough to know that you have a lot, a lot of energy. And in the beginning, you're gonna be all excited about something that you're doing, and then there's gonna be days where

Jayne Ray: You know, you're not doing that, and you're gonna have to figure out how you're gonna fill those days, and maybe you fill those days

Jayne Ray: binging Netflix, you know what I mean? Or reading a book, or, doing something else, but it is.

Andreas Stein: But, you know, like with binging Netflix, you know, I mean, if you have a horribly frustrating day, or nothing went right, you binge-watch whatever, and it takes your mind off, and that's good. But if every day is a binge party of whatever episodes, or whatever show there is, now that would be a little…

Andreas Stein: I don't know, frustrating, you know, so… but, you know, once in a while, binge-watching till 2AM, whatever it is, is not a bad thing, right?

Jayne Ray: It's not a bad thing. I'm just gonna end with one more thing, because I think it's important. So when you retire, you call into the promised land, right? And so everybody who's not retired.

Andreas Stein: considers it's a promised land.

Jayne Ray: Or is it a promised land? And it is, in so many ways. I mean, it's the time of your life where you have total freedom, good and bad. But everybody's gonna ask you, so, how's retirement life treating you? And your answer is always gonna be…

Andreas Stein: I'm busy.

Jayne Ray: I'm busy…

Jayne Ray: great, I'm happy, even if you're not, right? Now, nobody wants to hear, oh, I'm miserable, or, you know, but… but except the fact that

Jayne Ray: it's not always gonna be great, and it's… but there are gonna be times that it's amazing, right? It's gonna be amazing. And so, like life itself, it's gonna… there are gonna be highs and lows, and…

Andreas Stein: Yeah.

Jayne Ray: And I… I think understanding that, that it's not the Promised Land, but it's not purgatory either, right? That's… that it's somewhere that, again, you're gonna have amazing times.

Jayne Ray: And you're also gonna have days that you don't know what to do with yourself, and that's okay, right? That's okay. So hopefully the practicalities are important, but, you know, everyone understands that, you're gonna feel amazing joy and happiness, and some days maybe not so much.

Andreas Stein: You know, looking from this side of the river.

Andreas Stein: You're not gonna talk me out of considering retirement the promised land. I… it's the land where milk and honey flows down the river, and everything is perfect.

Jayne Ray: Well, I will tell you, I'm now 3 years in. The first year was very hard, because, you know, I was a formerly important person, right? And so I didn't know what to do with myself. My identity was just messed up. I will tell you, 3 years in, I'm really, really happy in retirement. I don't…

Andreas Stein: Awesome.

Jayne Ray: you couldn't pay me to go back to work. So, so yeah, it is a transition, right? And I said I could not be happier in my retirement, but, you just have to recognize that it's, it's not the promised land necessarily from the beginning.

Andreas Stein: So you are… you were a successful businesswoman, and now you're a successful retiree.

Jayne Ray: Exactly, exactly. I am a very successful retiree. Awesome. And I'm not a successful tennis player, I'm not a successful golfer, but I am a successful retiree, and it took a little while to get.

Andreas Stein: Perhaps…

Jayne Ray: So…

Andreas Stein: That is quite inspirational to me, because, you know,

Andreas Stein: Obviously, everyone defines success differently, and what it means to you is probably different than it would be for me, but…

Andreas Stein: There is something like, I'm a successful retiree.

Andreas Stein: And it's something I'm aspiring to, to be…

Jayne Ray: We should get…

Andreas Stein: successful retiree.

Jayne Ray: You're retiring.

Jayne Ray: Anyhow, for those of you listening, first of all, a reminder, please join our Facebook group. It's a safe place to talk about what it's like to be a successful retiree, or maybe you're going through some of the emotional challenges that come with the first few years.

Jayne Ray: Second of all, we're gonna be doing, more Season 2, and really diving into some, some good feelings, so I hope you'll stay tuned.

Jayne Ray: And then I think, finally, that's what we wish for you, right, Andreas? We wish for you to be.

Jayne Ray: A successful, happy, and joyous retiree, and hopefully listening to these episodes is giving you some inspiration to get there.

Andreas Stein: I can't wait to pitch my tent in the Promised Land.

Jayne Ray: All right. Anyhow, thanks everybody, and more episodes coming soon. Take care, Andreas.

Andreas Stein: Take care, Jane.

Jayne Ray: Alright, bye.

Andreas Stein: Nope.