Megan Riksen (00:17): Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker podcast. I'm Megan Riksen today, joined by Danny Lauer. Dani Lauer (00:23): Hi Megan. Megan Riksen (00:24): Hello. So today we're talking about all things psychology, which is kind of a fun topic. Dani Lauer (00:30): Yeah. Megan Riksen (00:30): Right. Dani Lauer (00:31): Doing a little deep dive. Megan Riksen (00:32): A little deep dive , because it is one of the biggest, it is the biggest, right, major at Grand Valley. Is that still true? Dani Lauer (00:39): I believe it's the biggest major. The largest major, yeah. Megan Riksen (00:42): Yeah. Yeah. So there are a lot of you out there listening who are likely psych majors, or were a psych major in your time here at Grand Valley. Mm-Hmm . So if you are one of those, if you're majoring in psychology or even considering it, you've probably heard people say that you'll need a graduate degree in order to do do anything in quotes, air quotes, air quotes with it. But do we think that's really true? Dani Lauer (01:06): I, it's not. And we're gonna really get into that today with our episode. And I actually, I used to be an academic advisor for the psychology major. And I heard this all the time. Yeah. Mm-hmm . I believe it's, it's just one of those myths that float around campus. And I feel like a lot of people also think that if you're a psych major, then you're only path is like to be a therapist. Or a counselor. RAnd in reality, that's just not true. Mm-Hmm . I mean, a lot of people do go that path and it makes a lot of sense that they do. But your degree can really open doors to a lot of different careers that you maybe haven't considered as well. Megan Riksen (01:52): Yep, I think that's certainly true. Mm-Hmm . So today we're gonna dig into that. We're gonna figure out what you can do with a psychology degree if grad school isn't your immediate plan. So we're gonna talk about the skills you gained with this major career paths you might not have thought about, and how to make the most of your degree while you're in school. Dani Lauer (02:08): Yeah. All right. So let's kick it off with talking about some of the transferable skills you're building as a psych major that really go beyond the classroom. I think it's really important to think about what you're learning and how that is gonna fit into the world of work. I mean, we talk about skills all the time in our office. That's exactly what you wanna highlight when you're talking with employers. Megan Riksen (02:32): Yes, for sure. All right. So when we're talking about skills, first off, you've got research and data literacy, which means you know how to gather information and analyze it and make sense of it. Dani Lauer (02:42): Yeah. I think about those like psych 300, 3 50, nice. Psych 400 classes. That is all research based. Yeah. You're learning that. Megan Riksen (02:51): Yeah. Thank you. Academic advisor, Dani. Dani Lauer (02:52): You're welcome. . Megan Riksen (02:53): Thank you for putting on that hat for us today. Dani Lauer (02:56): It's been a minute. Megan Riksen (02:56): So really, really appreciate it. Next you understand human behavior and motivation. Which helps you connect with people and anticipate their needs. And then you've also certainly developed strong communication skills, oral and written, so you can clearly explain ideas or present information. Dani Lauer (03:14): It's so interesting. You, I think about like a typical job description that you read. And I just, these are words I see all the time in those job descriptions, Megan Riksen (03:24): This is what employers want. Dani Lauer (03:25): Yeah. I mean, I also think about like problem solving, critical thinking skills. I mean, we know that employers love that. It means you can really look at challenges and find a way to solve them. Right? Like finding creative solutions, being thoughtful about that. And then finally, I just think about like building empathy, cultural awareness. I mean, we know that's huge in any workplace, especially ones that really value teamwork, kept relationships with customers being an inclusive environment. These are all things that you've learned in your psych major. Megan Riksen (04:03): Yeah, for sure. And these aren't just kind of those fluffy, soft skills. They're the exact abilities employers are looking for, even in roles that might not have anything to do with psychology, like on paper. Mm- Hmm . It's important to make sure you can talk about these skills, though. That's kind of the, the real key of it. Yeah. Being able to talk about these skills, being able to provide some examples of how you've used them so employers can see the value you bring right away. Just saying you have critical thinking skills is meaningless. Yes. Providing an example of a class project you worked on where you really needed to figure something out and you had to work with others, and you have this great example. Okay. That's gonna bring it to life a lot more. Dani Lauer (04:46): Yeah, show don't tell. Right. Like, name it, demonstrate it, relate it, right. Megan Riksen (04:51): Yeah. Exactly. Yes. And come in and do a simulated practice interview in our office. 'cause We will definitely help you with that. Dani Lauer (04:59): You'll hear those buzzwords. Megan Riksen (05:00): For sure. Good. Okay. So now that we've kind of set the baseline for some of the skills that are part of this major, let's break down some of the different career paths that someone could take with a bachelor's in psychology. Dani Lauer (05:12): Yeah. So I think, I mean, right off the bat, what makes sense to me is really those, the human service and community type of roles. So think about like a case manager, maybe a mental health tech a residential counselor, a rehabilitation specialist. I mean, these are all jobs that usually mean you're working directly with people.And if you like, I mean, a lot of times you're in the psych major 'cause you wanna understand how people think and, and what, you know, why they do the things they do. And so getting to support individuals, even families navigating like social services or individuals in recovery programs. I mean, it's just a really natural fit. Especially thinking about like, you've learned about, again, behavior, motivation. Communication. So bringing that empathy and some of that knowledge to the table in those roles really makes a lot of sense. Megan Riksen (06:10): Yeah. And I think you'd probably be surprised how much is out there that's available at the bachelor's level. Sure. You can go onto grad school and you can become licensed in some of those areas, like if you get a master's of social work or something like that. But there still is plenty that you can do. So what a great way to kinda dip your toes in a little bit, see if you really like it. Before you decide, like to really go on to grad school and all the time and money that takes. Dani Lauer (06:38): Absolutely. Yeah. And think about like tech specialist, those are, right, some of those words in the job description can kind of indicate that a bachelor's degree is sufficient for that type of role. Megan Riksen (06:50): Yep. Perfect. Okay. So business and corporate roles are next. So you might be thinking as a psych major, I don't necessarily want to work in mental health. And that's totally allowed. psych majors are also in demand in business settings because you can think about rules like a human resources assistant, a recruiter training and development coordinator. Because in those roles, when you're working in hr, when you're working in recruiting, you're reading people, you're building relationships. You're helping organizations run smoothly. Those are all so connected to what you learned in your degree. Dani Lauer (07:24): Absolutely. Megan Riksen (07:25): Even sales and marketing could be options because you, you understand what makes people tick. Which is really beneficial if you're trying to sell them something. Dani Lauer (07:34): Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So another kind of field to look into is education and youth services. So you know, maybe you love working with students, but you don't wanna teach in a classroom. That was me. Megan Riksen (07:49): Yep. Same. Same. Absolutely. Dani Lauer (07:53): So, you know, academic advisor, admissions counselor, two roles that I personally have held. Megan Riksen (08:00): Oh yeah, nice! Dani Lauer (08:00): And yeah, it's, it's true. Like I, I knew I wanted to be in some type of like educational setting but I wasn't the type of person that wanted to be like a traditional K 12 teacher. Y Even like an afterschool program coordinator. You know, anything kind of in those educational spaces. And think about using like that supportive mentoring side of psychology, you might help students choose a major or navigate college applications or connect families with resources. So again, you're, it's more of those people facing, human service type jobs that are helpful. Megan Riksen (08:36): But like specifically within education, which is kind of its own separate thing from like the, the first one we talked about, the human services. Great. Okay. So research and data roles would be up next. So these are the more analytical side, and with your degree, you could easily become a research assistant, a program evaluator, or even a market research analyst that sometimes is something that you might think of more in the marketing space, but I think certainly with the right skills and, you know, maybe finding an internship in that or something. You could totally move into that role. Your stats classes and your lab work have given you tools for handling data. And, you know, so many organizations need this. A lot of nonprofits think tanks even corporations, companies need people to gather and interpret information. So if you really like that piece of your degree. The stat side, the figuring things out, the data the research, all really, really good things to kind of consider and start using those as your keywords. Dani Lauer (09:46): Yeah, definitely. And then, okay. There are just are some curve balls. Megan Riksen (09:50): Yeah. The oddballs out a little bit, maybe. Dani Lauer (09:52): Yeah. Just jobs that people don't immediately connect to Psychology. I think about like working in nonprofit outreach or corrections, probation programs, advocacy work, government, like, you know, even I think about so many of the students I used to advise with a psych major, loved having like a criminal justice minor. Or even a double major, because psychology is just a, a smaller major credit hours wise. Megan Riksen (10:18): Oh, nice. So you can fit other things in. Dani Lauer (10:21): Yeah, you can fit those other things. And not to say you have to do that, but I just think like some of these curve ball areas, like even to take some electives. In the, if that's something you're thinking. Could really prepare you well. And again, having that understanding of people, behavior, communication those are areas that you could really see yourself flourishing in. Megan Riksen (10:45): Awesome. Great. All right. So key takeaway. Don't just type psychology into the search bar when you're on Handshake or wherever you're looking for jobs. It's gonna be much, much more effective to look up a lot of these entry level titles that we've been talking about. Like coordinator assistant, yes. Specialist technician. These are gonna get you much, much better results, because those really are the entry level type roles for a psych major. Yeah. Typing in psychology, you're, you're gonna get some random stuff, I think. Dani Lauer (11:24): Yeah. And we'll link, I know the psychology department has a great list of bachelor's level job titles. Megan Riksen (11:31): Nice. Dani Lauer (11:31): We'll link that in the show note. Perfect. And, you know, even just kind of taking some of those and, and putting those in your search bar, super helpful. Megan Riksen (11:39): For sure. Because yeah, your degree is gonna give you the foundation and your experiences, including part-time jobs paired with networking that we also want you to be doing will really help point you toward the right fit. Dani Lauer (11:52): Yeah. Okay. So, you know, what does it look like to get some of that experience while you're at Grand Valley? Right. We always talk about how experience matters. And building your resume. While you're still in school. And there's so many ways to do that. One of the ways I think about the Psych 490 class. Which is the practicum. Which is kind of just like an internship, right. It's, it's a similar - Megan Riksen (12:20): Just another word for the same thing. Dani Lauer (12:23): Yeah, similar word. But even, you know, so doing something like that, volunteering in a field that you're interested in, maybe adding a certificate or a badge we talked about. You know, double majoring or doing a minor, but there's also even like four class certificates that you could add. Right. There's some room for electives. I know this. There's room for electives. So for finding some ways to really hone in your interest with those elective classes. And then also getting involved, right? There's so many cool campus organizations. I think about the psych friends peer mentoring program. There's some of the other psychology campus orgs. There's ones that are focused on mental health, if that's something you're interested in. Some that are more broad. And we'll link a list of those in the show notes as well, if that's something that you're wanting to, to plug into. Megan Riksen (13:17): Yeah, really good to get involved. And it's the low hanging fruit 'cause it's right here on campus. Dani Lauer (13:20): Right. And those, I mean, I think about the connections and the people you meet in those groups too, and being able to share ideas. Megan Riksen (13:28): Yes, where did they do an internship? What are they considering? Just talking with your fellow student org members. Dani Lauer (13:34): Yep. So helpful. Megan Riksen (13:36): For sure. Okay. So now to help us talk about opportunities, I am gonna bring in two fabulous guests. We have Amy Pierce-Danders and Cody Akers here from Pine Rest. And Pine Rest is one of our career lab sponsors. And so we are really lucky to have them with us to help outline some of the opportunities that they have for students. So welcome to both of you. Amy Pierce-Danders (13:57): Thank you for having us. So excited to be here. Cody Akers (14:00): Yeah, thank you so much. It's awesome. Megan Riksen (14:01): Absolutely. Of course. So why don't you each just tell us a little bit about your roles at Pine Rest, and then if one of you wants to share just about Pine Rest in general as an organization, that would be great. So, Cody? Cody Akers (14:14): Absolutely. I, I'll, I'll kind of take it off here. So yeah, like you said, my name's Cody Akers. I'm a licensed master social worker here at Pine Rest. I've been at Pine Rest about nine, 10 years now, so quite some time. I started at Pine Rest, kind of similar to what positions we'll be talking about a little bit today. Some entry level work, you know, getting my bachelor's degree and what have you. Just working all over the place within the hospital residential, as well as our education services here at Pine Rest. Megan Riksen (14:39): Okay. Very good. All right. What about you, Amy? Amy Pierce-Danders (14:42): Hi Amy Pierce-Danders, workforce Development Manager. What that means is I get to hang out with cool people all the time. I partner with different individuals throughout our organization to showcase us off and talk about job shadowing, internship programming, externship programming or nursing academy, and really cool things. So I work with a lot of college students as well as community members. Megan Riksen (15:11): Amazing. Great. And does one of you wanna just tell us a little bit more about Pine Rest? Cody Akers (15:16): Yeah, no, absolutely. The great thing about Pine Rest, I think it's, it's the Swiss army of behavioral health and mental health. There are things of, you know, in between the direct care staff all the way up to psychiatrists within the work that we do on outpatient levels into the hospital and acute services, as well as the residential levels of care. That ranges from, again, our acute inpatient hospitalization, seven to 10 days stay for anybody that's struggling in crisis. All the way to kind of where I'm at right now, working in residential. We both treat adults and kids, but working with, you know, individuals that are there for a longer period of time within their care. So it's a less of an acute crisis stay. It's more of a kind of a psychiatric residential treatment facility that is a little bit longer in terms of stay within three, six months sometimes. We do have some, some folks here that have been here for many years and the Forever homes that we call them on top of just our, our urgent care services, our outpatient services. So with, you know, the, the typical kind of therapy that everybody is more accustomed to, as well as the psychiatric medication management as well. Megan Riksen (16:15): Okay. Very good. All right. So something we hear a lot from current students at Grand Valley, a position they might be interested in is the job title of Behavior Tech. Mm-Hmm . So can you just tell me more about what that role is and what it involves? Cody Akers (16:30): Yeah, absolutely. That was something actually I started as the name has shifted over the time of being here, but I started as a care provider, which then went into psychiatric technician into behavioral health tech. And it's just been something, so that is the really, in my opinion, one of the most important clinical members. You know, they might not see that themselves, but they're the ones that are working 24 7 with our patients, our residents that are just in, in some of the darkest times of their life. You know, they're direct care workers, they're helping them all the way from, you know, working with them one- on-one to maybe going down, playing a game of chess or even to leading a smart group, you know, of working on these goals for these residents and patients that come in. They're seeking different levels of help whether that is our partial programs or inpatient programs or residential programs as well. I say that they are, you know, the most important clinical members of our team. One just because they're there 24 7, you know, the therapist, the psychiatrist, the doctors and, and just like our nurses as well, but our behavioral health techs, they're the ones that are kind of the, just the, the gears within these programs. It doesn't matter if it's residential, it doesn't matter if it's inpatient or anything like that. They, they make this place go around. Megan Riksen (17:36): Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Amy Pierce-Danders (17:38): I can't agree more, Cody. So true. Cody Akers (17:40): Yeah. And I think a, a good thing about it is we have a lot of, I would say undergrads coming into Pine Rest, whether - Megan Riksen (17:49): Okay, yeah, great. Cody Akers (17:50): It is just seeking a psychology degree, seeking maybe my degree. I got it while working at Pine Rest. And then I got my Master's, I was getting a social psychology degree. So again, I didn't really know what to do with it. I, they don't set you up for success sometimes, and you're thinking, what do I do? What do I do with this? And I think that Pine Rest is a home for individuals that are really seeking to get into. A different type of mental health care, a different level of care, because also at Pine Rust, it's just the overarching differences we have inpatient, the outpatient, the partial like I've been saying and everything like that. I think it's was really helpful for me because I guided me into my journey of, you know, all the way from working as a direct care professional. So the behavioral health professional behavior techs. I am a residential clinical manager right now. So I've put in the work for that, but I've also been able to find and define my own career.Throughout my stay here and, and working at Pine Rest. Megan Riksen (18:37): Right. So really great entry point if you're interested in this work. Yeah. Awesome. Amy Pierce-Danders (18:41): Absolutely. And Cody mentioned majors and wanna just talk a little bit about the majors that are in these entry level roles when you are in school, because it's, it's open to anybody in a helping profession, helping profession. So that could be anybody from a social work degree to a criminal justice degree. Anything in that. Humanities, psychology, counseling. We have some really great writing majors who are here in those roles. Speaker 2 (19:17): Amazing. Yeah. Amy Pierce-Danders (19:17): It's helping to inform their work. So anything in those helping professions. Is really a great fit for those roles. Megan Riksen (19:25): Okay. Fabulous. And is this a type of role that students can really fit in around their courses? Can you talk a little bit about like kind of the scheduling piece of it? Cody Akers (19:34): Absolutely. You know, there are different types of, you know, schedules. Obviously we have our full- time or part-time. We have one that's unique, some places called PRN workers, or we call it per diem, which is essentially, you know, meeting a certain number of shifts that they're able to work. But they're really going around their own schedule. So every single student that works here whether, you know, they're getting a degree, as Amy said in in writing, criminal justice physical therapy, anything like that they're able to kind of really pick their, their schedule, whether it's the weekends, whether it's night shifts or day shifts, or they, you know, kind of put it together into a little bit of a combination of each of those shifts. And I find that that's really helpful. 'cause I do under me have quite a bit of employees that are one, seeking higher education, whether it is they're about to finalize their bachelor degree or they're going for their master's degree. Cody Akers (20:19): And a lot of those workers are the per diem workers, you know, because it's hard to akin to just a part- time, you know, schedule. So week one and week two they're able to really build what that schedule looks like so that one they can do all their classes. And just as I was, you know, I was an individual that I did that as well. You know, I had full-time. I, I always went headfirst into my degrees. So I was full-time and I was working as much as 24 hours a week to be able to kind of handle all those things. Megan Riksen (20:44): You fit that all in. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Amazing. Awesome. so since we're framing this episode around psychology as a degree. Do either of you have advice for someone who's looking for opportunities to how they might use their psychology degree. What are your thoughts around that? Cody Akers (21:03): Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that I see a lot of young individuals that are getting into this profession. Maybe this is their first job, second job, or they've done a job that's adjacent to it. But just in a different environment. And a lot of those individuals are psychology majors. Whether they are in their second year, third year, or they're about to walk soon. And that's been something I think is really helpful because as a psychology major, you get that degree and you're wondering to yourself, what do I do with this? You know? Right. What do I want to do with this? And I think that Pine Rest offers answers to those questions. You know, I, I came in, like I said, I was a social psychology degree. But it was a psychology degree. I was in between, do I want to do psych nursing, do I want to do you know, education roles? Cody Akers (21:45): Do I want to, in my head at once, I wanted to be a researcher. And then I said, you know, I like working with the people directly a little bit too much. So then I went into social work, but everything kind of goes into different areas that. I've worked with individuals and some dear friends of mine that they had a psychology degree, they got it while working, and now they're a physical therapist. You know, so there's just so much that Pine Rest allows with that, you know, essentially being able to akin to what they want, what they need to one, also gain those, that type of experience. I truly think that an individual that's kind of wanting to be a direct care worker. You will take those skills with you no matter what you do with your psychology degree. Cody Akers (22:22): And it would also make you in my opinion, a little bit, you know, stronger to maybe colleagues that aren't doing something like that work. And, and that's the, the unique nature of Pine Rest that why I've been here so long too. And I think why a lot of people have been here so long is that it helps you figure out what you want to do with that degree. That's very great in psychology. That's very great. Yes. because it can be scary. You're like. Crap, what do I do with this? And it, it's awesome to be able to be like, okay, I didn't really like working with adults. Now I can work with kids. I didn't like working with kids. Now I can work with the geriatric population. You know, so there's so much that is available within Pine Rest that also just caters to the needs of, you know, students that are about to graduate with their psychology degree. Megan Riksen (23:00): Great. Amy Pierce-Danders (23:00): Yeah. And when it comes to career planning individuals with psychology degrees can move around throughout the organization to what Cody said, so they can move into a bachelor's level clinical coordinator, a unit coordinator. And those roles are, our support staff roles are available both in our inpatient or partial, as well as our outpatient clinics, which range from Portage all the way up to Traverse City. We have 21 different clinics, so there's a plethora opportunities for psychology majors to move throughout the organization as well. Megan Riksen (23:37): Very cool. Awesome. All right. So let's get into maybe some logistics. How can students best get connected to Pine Rest? And that could be for employment, or maybe they're even like a step before that, thinking about job shadowing or volunteering. Can I hear all about that? Amy Pierce-Danders (23:55): Absolutly. So that's where I step into the role of workforce development. So if it's pre-conversation, somebody wants to have an informational interview with someone, they want to do a job shadow, they can reach out to me directly at my email. Or our most common email that will get them connected is talentacquisition@pinerest.org. And we'll get 'em set up with things. When it comes to applying for roles, we know that student schedules are very busy. So every week we offer open interviews on Tuesdays from 10 to three, both virtually and in person at our main campus on the southeast side of Grand Rapids. So we wanna have that door open to them as many ways as possible, and then applying at our website, Pine Rest.org/careers. And what I love about GV is typically they share my email address and say, Hey, Amy, so and so applied. And that allows me to go out, find that application, and then with my recruitment partners alert them that that application is out there. Megan Riksen (25:12): Very good. Well, that seems pretty simple. Amy Pierce-Danders (25:15): Yeah, it is pretty simple. Megan Riksen (25:16): Lots of ways to get connected. And I think that's, you know, so helpful as you said, for students with busy schedules who might not know exactly what they wanna do, but could just really Yeah. Start with one of those informational interviews or something like that. Amy Pierce-Danders (25:29): Oh, absolutely. And that's where our open interviews come into play as well, because we have so many different rules. So a lot of that you, when you hear the word interview. You think it has to be fully about an interview where it's more about a conversation of what we have available. An example is we have eight different units, and we're opening a pediatric center in March of 2026. Oh, cool. You have no idea the depth and breadth. So a lot of the conversation is what is available and where are you being pulled towards right now in your life. Cody Akers (26:04): Yeah. And I can kind of second that because as a manager you know, I am hiring people. Yes. I have a supervisor that's under me that does a lot of interviews, but also one of my favorite things to do is to interview, you know, individuals that are trying to get into this field. But we work as the, the manager of the programs directly with our recruiters. So our recruiters know the, the programs in now good. Mm- Hmm . So whether it's the units in the hospital, whether it's our residential programs, outpatient, partial, anything like that, our recruiters are pretty much on the pulse of what we have, what we do because they also take it directly from the, the people doing that work. You know, and get, get statements or get ideas of what's open. And we, we talk every single week, you know, as a team to really just come up with ideas of what do we have open, what are our needs, and how can we best support them. Megan Riksen (26:48): Okay. Great. Well, I think that's all the questions I had. Is there anything else you were hoping to cover today, or did we get to all the areas? Cody Akers (26:56): No, I think we nailed everything. Okay. You know, I, I think it's just a, a good idea and, and thoughtful for students that are getting into this, or finishing their degree, to really just open up to opportunities because you might not know, you know, what the opportunity is. I, I did that. I just applied to Pine Rest many years ago and wondering, you know, what am I gonna get myself into? I interned, you know, through the Kalamazoo State psychiatric facility. So I was, it was very different than when I stepped foot into over here. And now I've been here for many years. And being been able to move up and just define who I am as a, you know, a clinician. Megan Riksen (27:30): Amazing. Great. Well, thank you so much, Amy and Cody. For your insights and your time. It was really great to kind of get a little peek behind the curtain here. So thanks again. We appreciate it. Take care. Cody Akers (27:41): Yeah, thank you so much. We appreciate it.