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[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone, JJ Cooper, Carlos Clause, another baseball-america draft podcast.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I apologize that hopefully the audience gonna be okay.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I am on the road.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We are having microphone issues with that, but I'm getting ready to see spring breakout games I'm seeing backfield games and Florida, but Carlos, great to see you.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I know that you are also quite busy because we got a draft update coming.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We do.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We are currently, like, deep into the weeds on our first in-season update of the year.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think, JJ, we talked about this offline.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if we mentioned on the podcast, but I do think the first in-season update for any draft class is the most challenging to do right because I feel like it is the, we expand every in-season update we do.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We expand the list to 100 names because you got to find a way to get to 500 somehow at the end of the cycle.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I feel like we've got like right now, like it's going to be harder to cut it off at 300, then it is to say, oh, do we have 300 names?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if we continue seeing the sort of
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[SPEAKER_02]: of calls at the end of whatever benchmark you want to put, I mentioned to us got the other day.
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[SPEAKER_02]: When I get to 30 on the list, there are more than 30 players that think fit in that range.
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[SPEAKER_02]: When I get to 100, there are more than 100 players I want to fit in that range.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It was the same with 200.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll see if that's the case for 300, 400, 500.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think this is the first update where we have real meaningful updated information on how players have changed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it's also dangerous territory because for a lot of these players and in particular hitters, the bulk of their
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[SPEAKER_02]: is coming again, some of the worst pitching they're going to face throughout the year and scouts really value conference play.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're getting a little bit of conference play prior to this update, but we're hoping to kind of lock this update in prior to this weekend so we can get it out for you guys next week as you're listening to this podcast.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it remains a very fun process.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think the class is really deep and kind of
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[SPEAKER_02]: in the production of this top 300 update on the site this week.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I highlighted 10 rising players just players who are getting a lot of positive feedback or who are moving up throughout the year to kind of point out some of the names you guys should be aware of.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If you're following the draft or maybe you haven't been following the draft as closely.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that piece is on baseball American.com.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about some of theizers today on the show.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You're taking over host on the host.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I'm getting there.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I promise you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I've got to find out how to pivot back into just the analyst chair here, JJ.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So, so, okay, that's the thing I wanted to just say before we get there.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_03]: The way I would describe it is when we roll on our 300, if you are a very close draft, you fear a draft nick.
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[SPEAKER_03]: If you follow this closely, if our rankings do not frustrate you at least a little bit in some ways,
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[SPEAKER_03]: Then we're not doing our job right, right, because we're trying to be leading indicators of how the industry's viewing this not lagging indicators and I'll just use an example from last year, right, you don't want to overreact, but at this was about the time that we laid out this like, you know, I know we said coming into the season the consensus was Jay Slavialet is looking like one, two, three on this list, he's in that range.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We are at the point now to say, he's not like, don't that he can't get back there.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But it was like, I think this is at the point where we're like, he's now more moved into that next tier.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And there was a lot of people are like, oh, you're overreacting your numbers.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We're still good.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a bad weekend and now you're punishing him, which we're not punishing him.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We're just relaying what we are reporting.
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[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I think it's probably worth pointing out.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Like you can say that the industry, that front offices, that scouts are reacted.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Because yes, they have to react to the inputs that they're seeing.
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[SPEAKER_03]: If a player is not doing what they expected or are doing better than expected, they have to recalibrate all these things through.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But,
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[SPEAKER_03]: I will put it this way like we're going to get to the number one, the first player we're going to talk about here, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: We were talking a couple of weeks ago, like he's one of the guys that you highlighted in this, where Jake Brown from LSU, I'll field her an LSU.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that he's definitely rising up boards.
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[SPEAKER_03]: To the point where now there is a legitimate question, I would say that there is not a consensus on this, and I would say that in still a minority opinion,
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[SPEAKER_03]: but you can definitely find people in the industry, people in decision makers who are at least mulling over the idea that Jake Brown may be as good a prospect as their career or maybe even better as a prospect.
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[SPEAKER_03]: They're very different types of prospects.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But that doesn't mean he's going to go earlier, it doesn't mean he's like that, but it means that they are moving to where they are much closer in range than they were at the start of the season and that's not being that's not any attempt to be rash or to be.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Just kind of highlight things so people that they'll jump out for somebody it's about relaying what we're hearing right and that's Jake Browns like one of those guys who are definitely hearing a lot of that I would say in the early going set it how would you put it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's been a tremendous riser.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's leading this piece for a reason.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like he's just continued to improve as a hitter year over year.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think the conversation about Jake Brown versus Derek Cariel will be a fascinating one to follow, because they come from such different backgrounds as high school players.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Both were prominent high school players for different reasons.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Jake Brown was actually a really,
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[SPEAKER_02]: talented pitching prospect.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The Rangers drafted him the 16th round out of high school as a pitcher.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He came to college at LSU and was basically a full-time hitter from the jump.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's improved each year.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's gotten stronger.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's in for a lot of power.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There was first 22 games.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's slashing
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[SPEAKER_02]: He already has 11 home runs this season, which is the career best mark for him.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He got ready.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I had to bring up the comparison, but he already has more home runs.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I think the Derek Coriel has hit pretty much in his recorded like high school plus college career in mind.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's continued to kind of strike out Ray.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's hitting the ball harder.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think maybe even like tying all of this together is his fly ball profile is insane right now.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly half of the balls he's hitting are in the air.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's cut his ground ball right year over year over year.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'll be really curious to see what this sort of bad of ball profile settles into because it does feel like hitting half your balls as fly balls is maybe a little aggressive.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But the home run rate is way up.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, I do think it is a minority opinion right now that Jake Brown is a better prospect than Derek Curiel.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But the fact that that opinion does exist and it's not just from like singular scouts we've heard it from from multiple people in the last few weeks.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think primarily that is because Jake Brown just has so much more present impact potential strength and power at his disposal that you're seeing him get to in games.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That just gives people a lot of confidence that
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[SPEAKER_02]: that he's not going to be the sort of empty hitter and in his tools in some ways or maybe more exciting than Derek Creole's eyes still gets kind of split feedback about the sort of defender he is, whether he can play center field at the next level, he's playing a corner right now.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Deference to Derek Creole, but he has a strong arm.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's run well at times, and so he's definitely a prospect who's moving up boards.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I would imagine consensus right now, top two rounds, top 50 sort of pick, feel safe for Jake Brown, and then as we get into conference play more.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Just seeing how much closer, even if the consensus flips and Brown takes over for career will be something interesting to follow.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of, we're getting into conference play.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I would say that with Hunter Deaks, that's going to be important.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be important for all these guys, but you are already seeing some of what you want to see with Hunter Deaks to feel pretty comfortable that this is going to be a riser.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Hunter Deaks, I feel like, is the single player that we got the most up arrow feet back from the industry, part of it is probably where we had him going into this process.
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[SPEAKER_02]: almost universally when scouts have kind of looked over this prelim list that we're standing around we're soliciting for feedback people like you guys are way too low on hundred dc feels like a a top 100 prospect slam dunk easy put them in the top three rounds deets another high profile guy coming out of high school he was on that really talented believe it's cavalry Christian I need to double-check this but he was in the same high school pitching staff at Liam Peterson who's with Florida right now also talented prospect in this class
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[SPEAKER_02]: Tree of Pitchers in high school and then deets really just didn't pitch all that much in his first few years at Arkansas He was recovering from Tommy John surgery.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think he had only handful of appearances I got to see him week one and maybe his worst outing of the year and there were still a lot of stuff You like it's this big towering left-hander six foot six two hundred thirty five pounds.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's got a fast ball that sits 95 miles per hour It touches 91
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's throwing this hard upper 80s slider cutters or hybrid breaking ball that he's attacking the zone with a ton of frequencies missing a ton of baths He's got a slower high spin curve on the low 80s with more depth and he's been dominant.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean through his first five starts
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[SPEAKER_02]: He has a 4.18 ERA in exceptional strikeout and walk rate 41.6% strikeout rate 7.9% walk rate in just the size the arm talent and the stuff he's showing right now I think is giving teams a lot of confidence.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We talked a lot.
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[SPEAKER_02]: At least me and Jacob have in the past about kind of the lack of of college left in a picture I think Deeds is one of a few
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[SPEAKER_02]: notable up arrow guys alongside co car loan and Mason Edwards who are moving into pretty consensus easily top three round range and I'll be curious how much is his injury track record and just lack of resume previously maybe hinders him from from jumping up into the back of the first round because I don't think his arm talent would preclude him from getting to that range.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's just more of like how comfortable teams feel with the resume with his durability with his health moving forward
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[SPEAKER_03]: there's going to be the unknowable part of that, which is going to be how does medical look to exactly.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because durability, like there's two parts of it, there's the durability component, which is you have it demonstrated in the past.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And then there's the component of our doctors say that your, you know, your elbow looks great, your, you know, your stover looks great, or your, your, our doctors say, you know, you're a surgery waiting to happen.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And then whatever that answer is is going to massively affect a guy, you know,
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I do want to just really quickly hit on you mentioned conference play is going to be important.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, against TCU, 100 leads through two innings, he led up three hits, four earn runs, five strikeouts, three walks, that's the outing I said, I saw where it wasn't like a great result to outing, but it was just nice to see him healthy and on the mound and showing good stuff.
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[SPEAKER_02]: His next three starts pretty electric, 9, 8, 12 strikeouts in those games respectively.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then against Mississippi State, kind of the first game,
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[SPEAKER_02]: four hits, five earned runs, still eight strikeouts three walks.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, conference play is going to be important for him.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Is he dominant?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Is he just solid?
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[SPEAKER_02]: A lot still to play for here.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It is still very early.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But again, I think he is kind of the singular.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This guy has to be higher on your boards of any of the players we got feedback on.
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[SPEAKER_03]: On the high school side, I think that there's more room to kind of like on the college side you can absolutely move up.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We see it every year, but on the high school side, you can absolutely like go from, oh, that guy's going to school to, oh, where, where, where and when are we going, when are we comfortable taking this guy.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And go halfway, I would say coming out of last summer, you know, Vanderbilt commit, okay, that's going to be tough.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And then all of a sudden he comes out this spring working with I've got it got a pretty good coach there working with them and all of a sudden it feels like you're, you know, he's he has found another gear had me bow Holloway is very much going to be moving up in our next.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Bo Holloway, he is a Tennessee product.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He goes to Nolan'sville High in Tennessee.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's working with former Si Young winner, Ari Dickie, which has lended self to some impressive improvements.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Already, he was a guy who was already on our top 200.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We had him in the fourth or fifth round range.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Answering the year, and it sounds like he's just made really impressive strides.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The arm action looks a little bit cleaner, a little bit more efficient.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's led to a bit more velocity.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like some improvement with his command.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He was topping out at 96 miles per hour.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Last summer this year, he's been in the 94 to 98 mile per hour range and holding that velocity pretty well throughout his first few outings this year.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's still early and we do tend to see high school pitches come out and they throw hard, Briggs McKenzie.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He brings McKenzie never showed this sort of electricity from the left side, but he showed improved velocity and just faded a little bit down the stretch.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That may be prevented him from going in the top 30, top 40 sort of range, so he's still got paid like that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I think Bo Holloway, for really any pitcher who's jumping up into the top three rounds this year, I think it's going to be really hard to know for sure whether or not these players are signable.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, he's a Vanderbilt commit.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I imagine he's going to be a difficult sign, regardless of where he's being placed on boards.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And there's also just a ton of competition in the high school pitching ranks.
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[SPEAKER_02]: JJ, we know how teams operate on this high school pitching demographic.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Lots of teams are hesitant with that profile.
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[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of teams are just not taking that profile with their first overall pick.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then once you're forcing them to your second, third overall picks, you very quickly run out of money to sign a lot of these guys as if you're a high school pitcher in this range.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We had Lee and Peterson ranked around the range.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I assume we're going to have be hollowing this next update.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Sort of the back of the top 100, he doesn't sign at a high school, despite having tons of interest.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now he might be in line for $4 million, $5 million per day at the draft.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a lot of these pitches are going to bet on themselves.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of them are just not going to have the money that they expect to get to sign them out of these big commitments.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And the dynamic has changed because it used to be, well, you've switched another example, where it's like,
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[SPEAKER_03]: It used to be that you were betting on yourself, but you really weren't betting, because if you turned down this money coming out of high school, and it went the wrong way, right?
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[SPEAKER_03]: You were basically, it's either your all-inter, you're not in the in those situations, because it's like, okay, well, I turned down a million and a half, I turned down to a million, and I ended up getting $20,000, 100,000, I'm gonna drag in now.
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[SPEAKER_03]: So that was that spread.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Now, we're in the situation where,
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[SPEAKER_03]: these kind of pictures are going to get paid in college.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There's a little bit of a safety blanket there as well.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, William Schmidt, five starts 3.12 ERA, 37.5% strikeout rate.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And most importantly, I think for him, 6.7% walk rate.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Really great to see the strikes and prove for him.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But again, like, his was not a difficult decision because, again, nearly as much difficult as it would have been years before, because yes, it's hard to be a first round pick and turn down that money, but if you're saying that you're going to get paid in college and you think you can go higher, right, it does make it an easier in easier decision.
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[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like now.
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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, is it's a significant one, but there's also a player out of South Carolina who was not even on our 200, but when we do this update, he will, I feel like very confidently be not just in the inside of the 300, but he'll be well, you know, well, higher than that, like what is about to have Martia and that stood out so far.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Taj Martian, James Island, high school in South Carolina.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He was a guy who was fairly prominent on the circuit.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So not a name we were unaware of.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He was in line to be a potential B-800 guy, moving throughout this season.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it sounds like he's just kind of in the talk of the town in the mid-Atlantic, the Carolina's area of the southeast, like he mentioned.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like he's come out a little bit stronger than he was a year ago, and I saw him last summer and he had plenty of strength and impact potential at East Coast Pro.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's got this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: really aggressive swing with a deep hand press and he swings with the ton of intent and there's some moving parts, but when he connects with the ball, he can really impact it and make it fly.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like he's had a few really loud performances in front of key decision makers early this year.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He was a participant at the Super 60 event, PBR's big February indoor showcase.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think with with Marshan, it is a impact right hand bat with a frame that you can continue to dream on more strength coming.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He's listed six foot to 200 pounds.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's already 10 pounds heavier than what he was listed at.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I believe for a majority of the summer last year.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe some chance he can say it's shortstop as well.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I probably came into the spring thinking he was a guy who's going to move off the position to third base.
17:05.231 --> 17:07.213
[SPEAKER_02]: Because he's not the rain just player in the world.
17:07.293 --> 17:08.515
[SPEAKER_02]: He's turned in
17:08.849 --> 17:12.655
[SPEAKER_02]: more fringe average sort of run times under way, but he has a good arm.
17:13.116 --> 17:15.039
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like the glove work has been solid.
17:15.099 --> 17:17.804
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's a guy who is being cross-checked.
17:18.004 --> 17:19.427
[SPEAKER_02]: People are going in to see him.
17:20.108 --> 17:23.013
[SPEAKER_02]: And like you mentioned previously with the high school players.
17:23.073 --> 17:30.906
[SPEAKER_02]: So what I think, Bohol away, is sort of the hundred deets equivalent on the high school side in terms of he was a player who everyone was like, you got to get him higher, you got to get him higher.
17:30.926 --> 17:35.093
[SPEAKER_02]: I really love getting to the point in the calendar where
17:35.073 --> 17:40.879
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got enough feedback from Scott to feel confident in high school movers because for high school is just a lot more difficult.
17:40.919 --> 17:43.461
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't just pull up games and watch them.
17:43.502 --> 17:45.343
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't pull up data on players.
17:45.383 --> 17:55.153
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't just look at statistical performances that that are as meaningful because really with all these high school guys, the numbers are almost irrelevant unless it's a high profile player who's not putting up numbers.
17:55.334 --> 17:59.798
[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of the case where you get concerned, but Martian, it sounds like he's been.
17:59.778 --> 18:01.740
[SPEAKER_02]: pretty universally up arrow type guy.
18:01.900 --> 18:11.311
[SPEAKER_02]: I imagine he's going to be in the sort of top five ish round range for us, and then as we get more clarity throughout the spring when more people go and to see him get to see him more defensively, we'll have him even better feel.
18:11.331 --> 18:17.498
[SPEAKER_02]: But he is part of this, again, this really deep high school hitter class in the second, third, fourth, fifth round.
18:17.799 --> 18:21.003
[SPEAKER_02]: There are a lot of athletes, there are a lot of position players, that are a lot of up the middle guys.
18:22.104 --> 18:27.490
[SPEAKER_02]: This class is really deep JJ and Taj Martian does another guy
18:28.027 --> 18:34.735
[SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of a deep class, we also can say that the catcher crop is better now than we thought it was coming into the season.
18:35.155 --> 18:37.578
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to dive into one of the most significant.
18:38.059 --> 18:39.320
[SPEAKER_03]: That was already a prominent prospect.
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[SPEAKER_03]: The guy who's moving up our boards as well, right after this quick break.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So Carlos, so
19:47.879 --> 19:53.531
[SPEAKER_03]: We know we had a couple of catchers, kind of sniff it around the first round, come in to the season.
19:54.554 --> 19:57.540
[SPEAKER_03]: Von Lackey is no longer sniffing around the first net round.
19:57.620 --> 20:02.932
[SPEAKER_03]: Now it's much more Georgia Tech's catcher has had a great start to the season.
20:03.513 --> 20:07.963
[SPEAKER_03]: How significant is that for what is that done for his draft stocks so far, Ethan?
20:08.888 --> 20:12.491
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, most importantly, I think he's just come out and he's showing more impact.
20:12.511 --> 20:21.179
[SPEAKER_02]: One of my favorite pieces that I do each year is our first round to do lists, going over how at the top players in each class can improve their stock or solidify their stock.
20:21.219 --> 20:24.602
[SPEAKER_02]: And for Vaughn Lacky, I had one sort of target for him.
20:24.622 --> 20:26.484
[SPEAKER_02]: It was show more offensive impact.
20:26.524 --> 20:33.931
[SPEAKER_02]: He came into the spring with a reputation as maybe the best defender in the class with great contact skills.
20:33.951 --> 20:38.895
[SPEAKER_02]: And he just hadn't shown a ton of power,
20:38.875 --> 20:52.692
[SPEAKER_02]: his primary peer and rival in the catcher demographic in this class, Arkansas's writer, Hellfric, the power that those two had was just a different sort of tier in a different level, Von Lackey Homer six times, he doubled 14 times as a sophomore in 2025.
20:53.513 --> 20:55.896
[SPEAKER_02]: This year, it has been tremendously different.
20:55.916 --> 21:02.384
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, his hope yes now, as I'm looking at the line through 21 games, is over 1500, which is absurd.
21:02.645 --> 21:08.612
[SPEAKER_02]: I think over 1300
21:08.592 --> 21:33.418
[SPEAKER_02]: and a triple in his first 21 games that's already a single season best he is hitting the ball significantly harder so it's not just a matter of like oh he's playing in some bad parks against some bad competition which I mean that might also be part of it like the Georgia Tech has not played the best competition they're going to play this year even against conference competition so he'll need to sort of maintain this but Von Lackey is now looking like one of the
21:33.398 --> 21:38.344
[SPEAKER_02]: offensive players, one of the most well-rounded just players overall in this class.
21:38.404 --> 21:46.434
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the power was the one real question mark he had, no one had question marks about his contact skills, his defensive ability at catcher.
21:46.494 --> 21:49.238
[SPEAKER_02]: He's an exceptional athlete for the position.
21:49.298 --> 21:52.562
[SPEAKER_02]: He's already had a game replayed every position on the diamond.
21:52.602 --> 21:54.324
[SPEAKER_02]: He runs really well for a catcher.
21:54.344 --> 21:56.807
[SPEAKER_02]: And we've even gotten
21:56.787 --> 22:06.164
[SPEAKER_02]: Like feedback at this point, I feel like it's becoming more of a consensus conversation surrounding the fact that like Von Lackey is probably the best prospect on this Georgia Tech team.
22:07.527 --> 22:11.013
[SPEAKER_02]: We've heard from a number of people in the last few weeks, you're like, yeah, I would take Von Lackey over Drew Burris.
22:11.614 --> 22:16.062
[SPEAKER_02]: Which again, I think we kind of hinted at this a week ago and we did talk about Drew Burris a little bit.
22:16.042 --> 22:29.886
[SPEAKER_02]: But I keep getting that feedback more and more consistently and when you think about like premium defensive profile, when you think about like the swing itself and how that works, the size that Fon Lackey has, it makes a lot of sense.
22:29.967 --> 22:35.376
[SPEAKER_02]: And at this stage, him being a top five overall pick in the class is not shocking.
22:35.837 --> 22:37.560
[SPEAKER_02]: I think top 10 feels
22:37.810 --> 22:49.908
[SPEAKER_02]: Unless it's starting to feel conservative now again, we'll see what he continues to do, but he is absolutely vaulted to himself up into the conversation of like who's coming off the board after Rock Chalaski, Von Lackey's name has got to be one of the first to mention.
22:50.849 --> 22:55.496
[SPEAKER_03]: So, okay, now let's dive into one other aspect of this stuff.
22:55.516 --> 23:00.243
[SPEAKER_03]: Georgia Tech, Lackey's you know gear has on it, catcher you, and I get that.
23:00.824 --> 23:03.328
[SPEAKER_03]: Georgia Tech has a rightful claim to that.
23:04.118 --> 23:07.144
[SPEAKER_03]: This is obviously the home of Jason Baratek.
23:07.164 --> 23:08.988
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the home of Matt Weeders.
23:09.329 --> 23:12.956
[SPEAKER_03]: So they've had prominent long-term catchers.
23:13.437 --> 23:15.642
[SPEAKER_03]: It's also the home of Julie Bart.
23:15.662 --> 23:17.326
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the home of Kevin Perrata.
23:17.967 --> 23:25.182
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, there has been kind of a run of catchers, at least a couple in recent years,
23:25.651 --> 23:32.621
[SPEAKER_03]: Bart is a big leaguer, but at the same time, he's no longer with the team that took him second overall, but quickly moved on to Patrick Bayley.
23:33.001 --> 23:40.572
[SPEAKER_03]: The drafted Patrick Bayley is a first round or soon thereafter and went, nope, this is our guy not Bart and Bart's really kind of battling for job in Pittsburgh.
23:41.073 --> 23:43.356
[SPEAKER_03]: Perrata was left unprotected.
23:43.336 --> 24:02.795
[SPEAKER_03]: a real-fog draft, you know, basically I would say his development has kind of been disappointing for the match so far defensively and but more importantly I would say probably offensively because there's always question about the catching but the battle was considered elite and he ever had hit that level.
24:03.616 --> 24:13.326
[SPEAKER_03]: How much does that kind of recent catcher history at Georgia Tech potentially affect does it affect like yet all or is it significant or not
24:13.610 --> 24:18.337
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's something that's come up in conversations that I've had with Scouts about Von Lackey.
24:18.357 --> 24:24.046
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I would say almost all of the feedback surrounding Lackey has been tremendously positive.
24:24.086 --> 24:27.191
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you get further into some conversations, that's an element of it.
24:27.211 --> 24:30.536
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, hey, is he going to be another Joey Bard?
24:30.556 --> 24:32.279
[SPEAKER_02]: Is he going to be another Kevin Perrada?
24:32.659 --> 24:35.985
[SPEAKER_02]: Do we sometimes get fooled by these Georgia Tech catchers?
24:36.045 --> 24:38.208
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's going to be in the back of people's mind.
24:39.810 --> 24:41.473
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if,
24:41.453 --> 24:48.274
[SPEAKER_02]: if their track records and the fact that those two players in particular haven't lived out of expectations should.
24:48.592 --> 24:52.136
[SPEAKER_02]: have a significant impact on on how he's viewed and evaluated.
24:53.417 --> 24:59.283
[SPEAKER_02]: It does give you some pause, but I'm not sure, do you think that should be a meaningful critique?
24:59.343 --> 25:03.707
[SPEAKER_02]: Or question mark to me is mostly like Georgia Tech is just known for these catchers.
25:04.088 --> 25:08.552
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Georgia Tech and Louisville probably have the best track record of like high and catchers in recent years.
25:08.612 --> 25:10.254
[SPEAKER_02]: Louisville has Henry Davis.
25:10.434 --> 25:16.000
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll Smith, don't rushing, was not a first rounder, but I mean, in hindsight, probably want to push that guy.
25:15.980 --> 25:22.350
[SPEAKER_02]: up into the first round Georgia Tech, as guys like you mentioned, Veritek Bart, Prada, they also have Max Pentecost in 2014.
25:22.830 --> 25:24.353
[SPEAKER_02]: Matt Weeders, you see, that was a statement.
25:24.733 --> 25:26.236
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not, that's not what I'm going to say.
25:26.276 --> 25:29.941
[SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me, Matt Weeders, I have my Georgia, I have the B.A.
25:29.961 --> 25:31.764
[SPEAKER_02]: draft database, I've got my Georgia team.
25:32.024 --> 25:32.846
[SPEAKER_03]: All my cans, another one.
25:33.046 --> 25:40.317
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so I just think they have been one of the best universities at producing catchers in recent years and not.
25:40.752 --> 25:49.429
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it would be a little bit too much to put their struggles on von Lacy and Sao because they struggled, he's going to as well.
25:50.152 --> 25:53.076
[SPEAKER_03]: This isn't a rice pitching situation, right?
25:53.276 --> 26:01.368
[SPEAKER_03]: Where I think it got to a point where it really did affect, this isn't like to go back to also to something from the a decade ago.
26:02.029 --> 26:04.713
[SPEAKER_03]: If you were taking it with a junior pitcher, right?
26:05.254 --> 26:07.857
[SPEAKER_03]: And you didn't like the delivery.
26:07.897 --> 26:10.121
[SPEAKER_03]: And you thought that was something you would have to eliminate.
26:10.301 --> 26:12.764
[SPEAKER_02]: The UVA squad, those who are not familiar.
26:13.185 --> 26:13.726
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, huh?
26:14.206 --> 26:17.391
[SPEAKER_02]: The UVA squad for those who are not familiar with what you're talking about.
26:17.742 --> 26:23.336
[SPEAKER_03]: But I get where that would be something that would absolutely affect your viewpoint on the picture.
26:23.637 --> 26:33.743
[SPEAKER_03]: Because he had it and didn't like it from before, you'd seen poor outcomes before and say, okay, I don't know how Kevin Perotta not hitting in pro ball.
26:34.938 --> 26:42.290
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of carries over to Von Lackey because like I think you have to then look at and say, okay, well, where did we have Bart, where did we have Prada?
26:43.032 --> 26:44.554
[SPEAKER_03]: And what were we wrong about?
26:44.715 --> 26:49.763
[SPEAKER_03]: And then is that something that that aspect of this is something that we have concerns about Lackey as well?
26:50.124 --> 26:50.284
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
26:50.344 --> 26:59.680
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say that when you compare Lackey and Prada, I feel like they kind of come from your, you said like coming into this year or the concern with Lackey was,
26:59.660 --> 27:04.468
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you're athletic, you're a good athletic catcher, have more impact.
27:04.488 --> 27:08.454
[SPEAKER_03]: Question, Prada was coming into his draft year was going to catch him.
27:08.474 --> 27:11.399
[SPEAKER_03]: Not if he can hit, he'll play catcher, right?
27:11.519 --> 27:13.602
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are very different profiles, right?
27:13.682 --> 27:20.553
[SPEAKER_03]: Like so to me, you kind of, I'm not saying it doesn't like sticking back your head, but you kind of evaluate the player as the player.
27:21.294 --> 27:23.558
[SPEAKER_03]: And you evaluate him,
27:23.993 --> 27:30.620
[SPEAKER_03]: In comparison to what you see like how they will what other catchers does he remind you of and they right, where black and gold.
27:31.161 --> 27:41.031
[SPEAKER_02]: I think with Joey Bart, he also had more strikeout, question marks that Von Lackey just doesn't have with Kevin Prada, even with his offensive track record and sort of security you felt with him.
27:41.051 --> 27:48.499
[SPEAKER_02]: He did have an unusual offensive setup, which I'm not sure how much like getting into like how you actually swing the bat.
27:48.884 --> 27:55.434
[SPEAKER_02]: is going to move the needle for you personally, but like Kevin Prottis swing is a little bit more similar to like an awkward Drew Burris sort of swing.
27:55.474 --> 27:59.020
[SPEAKER_02]: And Von Lackey, I don't think has an atypical set up or swing.
27:59.040 --> 28:09.978
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do think there is this foundation of both contact skills and just defensive excellence that he has shown for years now that makes him feel safer than both of those other players.
28:11.079 --> 28:13.423
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's probably is already
28:13.403 --> 28:36.593
[SPEAKER_02]: at a higher level than we're Kevin Prada was throughout his drafts like we had Kevin Prada stuffed up there at the board pretty good and then Joey Bart in 2018 we had him I need to pull up exactly where he had him rank but I imagine Vaughn Lacky is going to rank in a pretty summer range to both those two guys but the profile feels a little bit more well rounded if that is a fair claim for you JJ.
28:37.535 --> 28:47.597
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say that like if you look at our pre-draft report or pre, you know, for Mark, it says like the hit tool strike I've said in a concern, there are violators think his hit tool is fringe average.
28:47.677 --> 28:48.378
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
28:48.398 --> 28:50.603
[SPEAKER_03]: In reality, his hit tools ended up being a 30.
28:51.305 --> 28:51.425
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
28:51.445 --> 28:51.966
[SPEAKER_03]: And
28:53.009 --> 29:04.888
[SPEAKER_03]: That's been the thing with Bart, I would say that it's kept him from being more than kind of a backup, you know, part time regular so far is he's a 220 hitter.
29:04.968 --> 29:21.193
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a 230 hitter, there are catchers who can make that work, but you have to really hit for power and his hit tool being less than we thought it was going to be has affected his power as well and his own, you know, doesn't walk it on like it's something where
29:21.764 --> 29:28.154
[SPEAKER_03]: He walks enough, but like, you put it all together and it's like, that's what ended up with him.
29:28.715 --> 29:33.303
[SPEAKER_03]: We had, we're at the opposite end, where there's a real confident for a catcher.
29:33.343 --> 29:36.909
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like there's more confidence, we take the catcher from last year's class.
29:36.929 --> 29:40.194
[SPEAKER_03]: This looks like it's going to have better catcher with the top than last year's class did.
29:40.635 --> 29:42.658
[SPEAKER_03]: There was much more I would say.
29:42.638 --> 29:44.582
[SPEAKER_03]: There wasn't a guy who had this combo, right?
29:44.662 --> 29:46.727
[SPEAKER_03]: Kayden Botan, you could feel good about his hit tool.
29:46.987 --> 29:49.192
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he might hit five homers a year.
29:49.572 --> 29:54.743
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you can have a guy like Luke Stephenson, and you're like, I think he could really have power, but he might hit to 10.
29:55.104 --> 29:55.585
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
29:56.088 --> 30:00.475
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the, so I looked, we had Joy Bart rank 5th in the 2018 draft class.
30:00.536 --> 30:03.661
[SPEAKER_02]: We had Kevin Potter ranked 6th in the 2022 draft class.
30:03.701 --> 30:13.137
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're going to have Von Lackey in a very similar range in a much better draft class than than either the 2022 or the 2018 draft class at the time.
30:13.177 --> 30:17.404
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just think that ranking will maybe put them in the exact same bucket, but
30:18.143 --> 30:23.089
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope this isn't recency bias, but I just feel like Von Lackey is a more complete prospect than both those two.
30:23.169 --> 30:24.130
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll see.
30:24.170 --> 30:25.291
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll know about more, how about this?
30:25.431 --> 30:28.755
[SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't even say like maybe he's not more complete because Bart, that was really the question.
30:28.775 --> 30:34.742
[SPEAKER_03]: There was, you know, defensive and good, but, you know, we're trying to put him in the perspective of where they were.
30:34.782 --> 30:42.931
[SPEAKER_03]: He's definitely more well-rounded than Parada who, even when we had him six, there was a question, like, well, this guy would be a catcher, or would be a first space pin, whatever, like that.
30:43.772 --> 30:48.117
[SPEAKER_03]: But how about, I'd say he's a safer profile, though, because that feels fine.
30:48.282 --> 30:55.360
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're questions, the hit tool, which it was with bar, that's where it can go, it's the toughest thing to evaluate.
30:55.440 --> 30:57.426
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say catching defense also.
30:57.446 --> 31:02.258
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I feel like when you're evaluating an amateur catcher on their defense,
31:03.352 --> 31:15.030
[SPEAKER_03]: you're partly trying to, the teams are trying to evaluate a player's ability to take in new information and act on it and the willingness to put in the work.
31:15.050 --> 31:18.295
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that last piece for me has become so important in recent years.
31:18.335 --> 31:20.999
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a work ethic wanted desire to get better.
31:21.039 --> 31:24.364
[SPEAKER_02]: I think has so much to do with whether or not you succeed as a pro catcher.
31:25.694 --> 31:31.864
[SPEAKER_03]: because you're going to be drilled at a level that it's just not possible to do an amateur baseball.
31:31.884 --> 31:42.100
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you have coaches whose entire job is to basically help you agonize over every border on pitch and how you received it and how you could
31:43.008 --> 32:00.763
[SPEAKER_03]: get 5% more strikes in that location depending on how you receive it and all of these other things including up your footwork and your okay you know we can talk about one the catching but one the catching is not one thing you could be like five different setups depending on what you're trying to do right.
32:00.743 --> 32:01.844
[SPEAKER_03]: I won't go down that road.
32:01.964 --> 32:04.566
[SPEAKER_03]: I promise everyone, you know, that I'll save that for today.
32:04.687 --> 32:18.239
[SPEAKER_03]: But the point just being is that it's a difficult position to evaluate, but when you're talking about a player and you feel good about his hit tool, as to start anti-inflammatory physician, that's a really good foundation of being like, okay, I feel pretty good about this.
32:18.379 --> 32:25.445
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, I contrast this with last year, just because like, I think we had some interesting catchers in last year's class and I really enjoy kind of geeking out of them.
32:26.166 --> 32:30.750
[SPEAKER_03]: But they were
32:30.730 --> 32:41.022
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, right, if Kitten Bodaim has a 50 ISO, you know, down to your down the road, I don't care kind of how well he's doing everything else.
32:41.302 --> 32:43.105
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be hard to kind of profiles regular.
32:43.785 --> 32:47.570
[SPEAKER_03]: If Luke Stevenson doesn't mean, you know, there are things that were like, okay, this could derail him.
32:47.870 --> 32:48.391
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm right.
32:48.411 --> 32:49.472
[SPEAKER_03]: He's hard to find right now.
32:49.512 --> 32:51.494
[SPEAKER_03]: What's going to derail him exactly?
32:52.075 --> 32:56.480
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's hard to find a real red flag or real concern in this profile with how he's going right now.
32:56.500 --> 32:58.763
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll see if that continues throughout the course of the spring.
32:59.452 --> 33:10.742
[SPEAKER_03]: But, well, I apologize that we're gonna keep this one nice and tight, but I have to get off to the backfields again, and we've got spring breakout rusters being announced, and we're just wrapping up with the World Baseball Classic, and there's so much going on.
33:10.883 --> 33:21.232
[SPEAKER_03]: Check it all out at Baseball America back home, and on the podcast and the YouTube these please subscribe, if you're not, it just helps you, because it helps you be able to see everything when we post it.
33:21.312 --> 33:25.897
[SPEAKER_03]: But on top of that, the algorithm likes it, and it helps other people find our content as well.
33:25.917 --> 33:27.518
[SPEAKER_03]: So we appreciate when you do that.
33:27.498 --> 33:28.922
[SPEAKER_03]: For Carlos, I'm JJ.
33:28.942 --> 33:29.796
[SPEAKER_03]: So long, everybody.
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