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Maisie: Page 94: the Private Eye Podcast.

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Helen: hello

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and welcome to another episode of Page 94.

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My name is Andrew Hunter Murray, and
I'm here in the Ice studio with Helen

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Lewis, Ian Hislop and Richard Brooks.

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So we have just had, uh, an
American import to the UK in the

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form of Saturday Night Live uk.

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It's a big American show that's
come here after kind of 50 years,

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but we have just announced a really
successful new export to America,

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which is the idea of having a mad king.

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Uh, America's taken that on and
they've been running with it.

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And Helen, I believe you've been
following how, just how well it's been

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going.

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Yeah, I mean, so much, so much winning.

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So obviously Donald Trump, uh, I
mean, I'm hesitant to say anything

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about the Iran War because it's, it's
existing in this sort of quantum super

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position of whatever Donald Trump
says is currently happening with it.

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He currently says.

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It's, he's negotiating with Iranians.

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Iranians say, we dunno what talking about.

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He did announce that just after
the markets had opened after a

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pretty grizzly couple of days.

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So who knows where we'll be
by the time this goes out.

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But essentially what we now know
after four weeks of war is that

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they didn't have any contingency
planning about what would happen if

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the straight of formers got closed.

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Mm-hmm.

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They assumed per report in the New York
Times that based on Israeli intelligence

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it looks like that Iranian protestors
would rise up and overthrow the

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regime, which is so far not happened.

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Yeah.

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and that they wouldn't at any
point have to put kind of boot.

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on the ground.

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Boots

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are now kind of sailing over boots

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are hovering over the ground.

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I would say at the moment.

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So you know that, and that is an
incredibly symbolic thing for America

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to do, but the main thing about
it is the fact that it has really

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revealed is no one in this White
House who can say no to Donald Trump.

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And why is that?

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Because they were all hand
selected to be people who

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wouldn't say no to Donald Trump.

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Such a que question on application.

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That's reason.

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reasonable answer.

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Well, but in one way.

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Look at it.

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One, one of the qualifications to
work in that White House is you have

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to believe that Donald Trump was
grievously robbed of the election.

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Right.

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You have to be a kind of reality
denier in favor of the cult

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of, you know, um, presidente.

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So by saying that you have to
say, you know, you've accepted

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this one thing, your loyalty to
Trump matters more than the facts.

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You can kind of see everything
else flows from that.

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But

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Ian: fact is quite important in the

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run up to a war.

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I mean, the failures of intelligence

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you've

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described could

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be applied to Iraq or

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Helen: some of

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Ian: the other, um, adventures or

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picnics or whatever.

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What is the definition for the war at the

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moment?

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Um,

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Helen: I

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believe it's a Shara Bank

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tour.

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Ian: a Shara bank to, but again,
none of this was, um, unforeseeable.

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Why did no one mention any

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of it?

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Helen: Did he even know about
things like, you know, oil going

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through the straightforward boots

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Richard: you know, did
he think about that?

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He's making these decisions, isn't
he, without talking about anybody?

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Does it occur to him that,
hang on, there's gonna be

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Helen: a

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Yeah, we don't, A consequence like that.

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We don't, I they do seem to have been
completely caught on the hop by that.

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I think the way that their intelligence
was was essentially, we'll go in,

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you know, take out the io
toler and the whole thing will

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collapse like a house of cards.

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we'll be home and sort of teeing medals.

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And that is obviously
not what has happened.

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The regime has basically said,
well, hang on a minute, what, like,

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what's the point of negotiating?

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Right.

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that's the fascinating thing, is
that Donald Trump has been hopping

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from foot to foot for days now,
obviously desperate to negotiate an

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end to the war that he can claim as
a another great Donald Trump victory.

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And the Iranians are the
ones who really don't

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see what's in

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that for them.

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What we have at the moment, as
as you said, um, Donald Trump has

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just declared that he spoke to Iran
and he now graciously won't bomb

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energy infrastructure for five days.

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Whereas previously it was a 48 hour
deadline and the Iranians have said, well,

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we haven't, we haven't had that chat.

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Uh, so we dunno who you were talking to.

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Uh, I mean, things are probably
quite chaotic at the top of the

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regime at the moment, obviously.

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well, everyone's got Donald Trump's
phone number, so it's quite possible

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that someone with been what an
Iranian accent has phoned him up

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claiming to be the Iranian foreign
And they had a very good chat.

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But the

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last time Donald Trump said things
were going well in negotiations,

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I, I had a little check.

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It was the 6th of February, if you
can remember all the way back then.

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He

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said the talks they were having had
been very good and it looks like

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they want to make a deal very badly.

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but it was about three weeks before he

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unleashed Armageddon.

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So maybe his word on the how the
talk's going is not, not gospel.

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I have this vision of,

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Ian: of Donald Trump inventing.

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A talk at one end and the other
end there's a, an Ayatollah

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who may or may not be alive.

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We don't know.

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Yeah.

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There's a series of men who you see grainy
footage of in bunkers who may or may not

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be talking to each other or to anyone else
who's actually in charge of a missile.

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I'm, I'm not quite sure how these

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Helen: talks are happening.

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they're clearly not.

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That's the problem.

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just, there's been so much chat wasted on

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Andy: Trump's

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Helen: reasons for doing things
as though there are reasons,

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but you're right.

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I mean, it's a crisis

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for international depro diplomacy if
you end up with a leader that nobody

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believes a word that they say and they
go back on themselves all the time.

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Yeah.

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That's the thing.

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If, even if America was sending
out very strong signals of being

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utterly bonkers, consistently.

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That would be something
that people could work with.

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But the problem is that everybody,
and you know, I do feel a great deal

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of sympathy for Ki Stama and Rachel
Reeves in this because all of their

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fiscal plans for the entire year Yeah.

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Are resting on what Mad King Donald
Rampaging down the haha in his white night

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shirt flapping behind him, decides to do

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Richard: next.

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Although it

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does give them a bit of a

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Helen: a let out, doesn't it?

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Richard: Because, you know, global
turmoil is a bit like COVID and

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Helen: so on.

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Richard: Um,

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if I were Rachel Reeves,

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I'd be thinking few,

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you know, at least I'm not
gonna be held to those plans.

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You know,

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Helen: the thing you said about,
The purity test of, of saying

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that, you know, Donald Trump won
the 2020 election and that's,

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Andy: the sort of threshing machine

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Helen: you have to pass your
brain through in order to be

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accepted into Donald Trump's inner

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circle.

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Andy: It's weirdly reminiscent of

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Helen: what happened to the conservative
party after Brexit, where you had

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the Boris Johnson cabinet, which was
only loyalists, you know, all of the,

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anyone who disagreed was cleared out.

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You know, they, they kind of left of
the Tory party and the centrist and

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the people who thought Brexit looks
like a might be not a brilliant idea.

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They

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were all cleared out,

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I think even before then

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When, but what, so for a long time, if
you wanted to get selected as a tour p

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during the 2010s or the late two
thousands, the question that came up

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in selection meetings was well, you
think about leaving the European Union.

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And, you know, it was a very popular
thing to say, so you had a lot of

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people who had never looked into it.

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Or didn't think it was a great idea,
but also thought it was never gonna

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happen, just going, going along with it.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I think that's, that is exactly the
problem we're seeing repeated is that

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people who just think, well, it doesn't
matter if I just make this one compromise.

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Right.

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Actually know sometimes
that bill does come to you.

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Ian: And

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how does it happen that the head
of counter-terrorism, who from

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what I dread I assumed, was pretty
much full on Trump loon, um, has

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declared that trump's a loon.

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Helen: Um,

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Ian: uh, what on

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Helen: earth are we

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Ian: here?

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What, why is this man suddenly, um, the

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Helen: new bellwether?

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Well, a new type of loon
is rising in the east.

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No, hang minute in the west.

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Um, actually, is, he is Joe Ket.

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We're talking about resigned and he
made a fair point in the resignation

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letter, which was a bit about this
kind of idea that the US has embarked

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on a joint war here with Israel.

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And actually that maybe this might
be suiting the Israelis rather

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than more than the Americans.

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But he then brought in this
other stuff how his wife was

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killed in Syria by, by bombing.

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About how that was another
Israel led, uh, foreign war.

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And that shades into lots of things he
said in the past that shade into the idea

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that actually maybe the Jewish state and
then maybe by extension Jews are maybe

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controlling America's foreign policy.

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In the kind of way that if you saw
somebody saying it online, your eyes

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would, would go up and go, is this
going to just stay as a strictly

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clear critique of foreign policy

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Ian: or

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is this is it gonna end

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Helen: is it gonna

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end up where

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I

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think it

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is

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in a little bit puppet
master hands in the cartoon.

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Right.

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Um, and I think that's, that is.

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an emerging strain of maga.

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So there are people who are both
anti-Israel for very principled reasons

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in the sense that they think it is a
foreign war adventurism and that America's

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foreign policy should be dictated by
America's interest first, and that those

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don't lie in wars in the Middle East.

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But there are also some flat out white
supremacists who have glommed on to Maga,

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who are anti-Jewish Holocaust deniers.

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Um, people like Nick Fuentes,
who I've mentioned before.

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Yeah.

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But this has caused, this, going
into a war with Israel has caused

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a split in the, what you might
call the kind of MAGA elite.

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So I looked at the polling and
actually voters who self identify

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as maga, 90% of them backed strikes
on Iran at the start of the war.

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That may have softened up since then.

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Only 70%.

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Only 77% of those who define
as Republican back it.

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Right.

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So being MAGA is being, you know, Donald
Trump, right or wrong to some extent.

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But within the elite people
like Tucker Carlson, Meghan

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Kelly, have.

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Started to, and the kind
of podcast comedian class.

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So Theo Vaughn, Joe Rogan,

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you can't

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Andy: you

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can't lose the

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Helen: podcast

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00:08:47,818 --> 00:08:48,498
comedians, they're,

250
00:08:49,172 --> 00:08:49,382
Andy: they're a

251
00:08:49,393 --> 00:08:49,633
Helen: core

252
00:08:49,682 --> 00:08:50,222
demographic,

253
00:08:50,222 --> 00:08:50,522
right?

254
00:08:50,522 --> 00:08:52,382
But they, they're a
core demographic, right?

255
00:08:52,382 --> 00:08:54,752
Because they all swung
behind Trump in 2024.

256
00:08:54,752 --> 00:08:54,842
Right?

257
00:08:54,992 --> 00:08:59,282
But they have been, to their credit,
Joe Rogan is, is not a big fan

258
00:08:59,282 --> 00:09:02,312
of foreign wars in the way that
Donald Trump wants wasn't right.

259
00:09:02,582 --> 00:09:06,902
And so they being a little bit more
of a distance removed, um, have

260
00:09:06,902 --> 00:09:08,192
been, uh, have been quite critical.

261
00:09:08,192 --> 00:09:10,753
I'm just gonna read you out something
'cause just to give you a sense of the

262
00:09:10,753 --> 00:09:12,182
level of debate is currently happening.

263
00:09:12,182 --> 00:09:12,362
Right.

264
00:09:12,362 --> 00:09:18,422
So Mark Levin very pro-Israel taught radio
host Versus Meghan Kelly X. Fox News.

265
00:09:18,422 --> 00:09:18,928
She'll remember

266
00:09:18,928 --> 00:09:19,228
her.

267
00:09:19,682 --> 00:09:20,732
Andy: Is anyone involved Not

268
00:09:20,758 --> 00:09:21,628
Helen: in broadcast?

269
00:09:21,688 --> 00:09:21,748
No.

270
00:09:21,748 --> 00:09:22,438
That's the wi, right?

271
00:09:22,472 --> 00:09:22,772
Okay.

272
00:09:22,892 --> 00:09:25,292
everyone is 12 and everyone
is a chat show host.

273
00:09:25,292 --> 00:09:26,042
Those are the only things

274
00:09:26,087 --> 00:09:26,147
Ian: you

275
00:09:26,147 --> 00:09:26,297
need

276
00:09:26,297 --> 00:09:26,537
to know

277
00:09:26,592 --> 00:09:27,562
that explains so

278
00:09:27,562 --> 00:09:28,002
much about

279
00:09:28,173 --> 00:09:29,582
Helen: war, the war,
everything about what?

280
00:09:29,582 --> 00:09:30,212
American politics.

281
00:09:30,212 --> 00:09:30,422
Okay.

282
00:09:30,692 --> 00:09:33,062
So me, Kelly, first of all,
attacks Mark Levin saying,

283
00:09:33,092 --> 00:09:34,738
calling him MicroPen Mark Levin.

284
00:09:35,222 --> 00:09:35,402
Right.

285
00:09:35,402 --> 00:09:37,168
and Saying that's why
he's in favor of this war.

286
00:09:37,438 --> 00:09:40,892
He then says, busy Sunday morning
for me, Kelly, she wakes up and

287
00:09:40,892 --> 00:09:42,002
has micro penis on her mind.

288
00:09:42,002 --> 00:09:45,512
Suffice to say, if it talks like
a harlet and posts like a harlet,

289
00:09:45,602 --> 00:09:47,968
it's, well, you know the rest shalom.

290
00:09:48,572 --> 00:09:52,622
At which point Donald Trump thinks,
here's a beef I should get involved with.

291
00:09:52,712 --> 00:09:52,832
Oh God.

292
00:09:52,862 --> 00:09:57,962
And on truth social defending Levin is a
truly great American patriot who is far

293
00:09:57,962 --> 00:09:59,488
smarter than those who criticize him.

294
00:10:00,257 --> 00:10:02,417
Ian: the resident of the United
States has got nothing better

295
00:10:02,417 --> 00:10:02,567
Andy: to do.

296
00:10:02,593 --> 00:10:02,813
Helen: do.

297
00:10:03,032 --> 00:10:03,092
No.

298
00:10:03,092 --> 00:10:06,482
Just Weigh in on the great
MicroPen controversy of 2026.

299
00:10:06,512 --> 00:10:08,788
But this is what's happening is
you've basically got load of,

300
00:10:09,632 --> 00:10:11,882
yeah, like cable news hosts.

301
00:10:11,972 --> 00:10:15,602
I mean, Pete Hegseth of Secretary
of War is a former Fox News host.

302
00:10:15,782 --> 00:10:20,642
This is basically a load of preening pre
bad Donna, who have somehow accidentally

303
00:10:20,642 --> 00:10:25,082
been in, put in charge of the world's
only superpower and it's enormous arsenal.

304
00:10:25,262 --> 00:10:27,242
And of course, they're all fighting with

305
00:10:27,268 --> 00:10:27,808
each other.

306
00:10:28,468 --> 00:10:29,758
So the base is

307
00:10:29,758 --> 00:10:34,498
still very with Trump, but he has lost
significant portions of the kind of MAGA

308
00:10:34,817 --> 00:10:35,027
Ian: over

309
00:10:35,027 --> 00:10:35,117
this.

310
00:10:35,537 --> 00:10:36,797
Can I, can I ask what happened

311
00:10:36,808 --> 00:10:36,898
Helen: to

312
00:10:36,898 --> 00:10:37,408
the Army?

313
00:10:37,408 --> 00:10:37,532
Are, Are,

314
00:10:38,567 --> 00:10:38,627
Andy: are

315
00:10:38,657 --> 00:10:39,917
Ian: are there any generals left?

316
00:10:40,157 --> 00:10:40,397
Is there

317
00:10:40,397 --> 00:10:41,867
anyone left in command

318
00:10:42,137 --> 00:10:43,127
in America

319
00:10:43,168 --> 00:10:43,888
Helen: who says,

320
00:10:44,882 --> 00:10:46,127
Ian: I'm not sure about this,

321
00:10:46,127 --> 00:10:46,187
Andy: yeah,

322
00:10:46,318 --> 00:10:47,278
Helen: or, well, someone's, someone's

323
00:10:47,567 --> 00:10:48,317
Andy: Someone's launching these

324
00:10:48,317 --> 00:10:48,767
missiles,

325
00:10:48,778 --> 00:10:49,078
Helen: are they?

326
00:10:49,078 --> 00:10:49,408
Yeah.

327
00:10:49,982 --> 00:10:53,312
Well, I mean, Pete Hegseth has been
pretty explicit about clearing people out.

328
00:10:53,312 --> 00:10:55,622
You know, he gave, went and
summoned them all, if you remember,

329
00:10:55,622 --> 00:10:57,598
of that lecture about how they
weren't allowed to have beards.

330
00:10:57,932 --> 00:10:59,402
Um, and, you know, he's

331
00:10:59,402 --> 00:10:59,762
been very

332
00:10:59,762 --> 00:11:04,082
clear that He wants a, you know, he wants
a stereotypically masculine military, and

333
00:11:04,082 --> 00:11:07,982
he wants one that is not going to gain
say anything that they're ordered to do.

334
00:11:08,222 --> 00:11:08,822
So you are right.

335
00:11:08,822 --> 00:11:13,408
The big figures of Trump won, like, um,
general Mark Kelly, like HR McMaster

336
00:11:14,552 --> 00:11:14,942
gone.

337
00:11:15,362 --> 00:11:18,722
He wasn't gonna make the mistake of
appointing anybody like that again.

338
00:11:18,902 --> 00:11:22,078
And the two things they used to do
was, one, they used to tell him to his

339
00:11:22,078 --> 00:11:25,978
face, were a bad idea, and two, I think
they used to quietly hide his briefing

340
00:11:25,982 --> 00:11:27,718
papers and hope he'd forget about it.

341
00:11:28,562 --> 00:11:33,902
Also, it turned out a great tactic, but
now he's got Marco Rubio, who he used

342
00:11:33,902 --> 00:11:37,592
to attack all the time as little Marco
and just, you know, once so said, you

343
00:11:37,592 --> 00:11:40,712
know, if you locked him in a room, you
know, he could slide under the door.

344
00:11:40,712 --> 00:11:40,922
Right.

345
00:11:40,922 --> 00:11:43,112
That, that, that's, he would
just all his principles.

346
00:11:43,502 --> 00:11:47,462
JD Vance, who's been stuffed in a
cupboard, um, and knows that his only lane

347
00:11:47,462 --> 00:11:50,282
for 2028 is as you know, continuity Trump.

348
00:11:50,282 --> 00:11:51,752
So he can't break from him.

349
00:11:52,232 --> 00:11:56,042
Susie Wiles is the chief of staff
was picked because she was just

350
00:11:56,042 --> 00:11:57,718
there to enable whatever he wants to

351
00:11:57,718 --> 00:11:58,018
do.

352
00:11:58,052 --> 00:11:58,705
Mm-hmm.

353
00:11:58,705 --> 00:12:02,062
and who in the whole of the Republican
party is, is a counterweight to him.

354
00:12:02,362 --> 00:12:05,452
You know, like Mitt Romney's out
of the Senate, you know, there are

355
00:12:05,452 --> 00:12:07,702
a couple of senators like Thomas
Tillis, who's on his way, out, who

356
00:12:07,702 --> 00:12:11,572
will vote against his nominees, stand
up to him, make criticisms, right.

357
00:12:12,007 --> 00:12:12,787
Ian: Um, but,

358
00:12:12,787 --> 00:12:13,117
none of

359
00:12:13,117 --> 00:12:13,717
this matters.

360
00:12:13,717 --> 00:12:16,627
The great vaunted American
system of, of checks

361
00:12:16,638 --> 00:12:17,328
Helen: and balances.

362
00:12:17,822 --> 00:12:19,057
Ian: It, it doesn't seem to

363
00:12:19,158 --> 00:12:19,608
Helen: work at

364
00:12:19,852 --> 00:12:19,965
does

365
00:12:20,062 --> 00:12:20,212
it?

366
00:12:20,272 --> 00:12:20,692
No,

367
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:23,726
Congress, you know, at the moment,
if you look online, you will see that

368
00:12:23,820 --> 00:12:27,570
are two or three hour long queues
at security at American airports.

369
00:12:27,780 --> 00:12:30,990
And that's just because of essentially a
partial government shutdown in funding.

370
00:12:31,170 --> 00:12:34,050
They have this mad idea that you
can, like fund agencies and, and

371
00:12:34,050 --> 00:12:36,896
you keep voting, you know, Congress
needs to reapprove funding.

372
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,900
And what's happened with that is
that the Republicans have attached

373
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:42,960
a load of ICE funding, immigration
enforcement funding to it, which the

374
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:44,340
Democrats don't wanna vote through.

375
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,321
So while they continue to have
this stalemate, people have now

376
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,330
to get to the airport 15 hours
early and stand in the car park.

377
00:12:51,660 --> 00:12:53,550
Like there was this line, I think
it was PJ R always used to have

378
00:12:53,580 --> 00:12:55,050
about, you know, Republicans say.

379
00:12:55,635 --> 00:12:57,821
Government doesn't work and
then they set out to prove it.

380
00:12:58,365 --> 00:13:00,735
And there is a lot of that
in American politics, right?

381
00:13:00,787 --> 00:13:03,315
It's just that we just, you
know, don't really care that

382
00:13:03,315 --> 00:13:04,721
much about government working,

383
00:13:05,291 --> 00:13:05,621
is it?

384
00:13:05,621 --> 00:13:05,951
Just that

385
00:13:05,955 --> 00:13:07,665
Richard: it takes so long for these checks

386
00:13:07,751 --> 00:13:08,381
Helen: balances for

387
00:13:08,385 --> 00:13:08,475
Richard: the

388
00:13:08,501 --> 00:13:09,401
Helen: courts to act,

389
00:13:09,598 --> 00:13:09,671
and,

390
00:13:10,695 --> 00:13:10,845
Richard: you

391
00:13:10,845 --> 00:13:11,985
know, so there's just not effective.

392
00:13:11,985 --> 00:13:12,285
'cause that

393
00:13:12,311 --> 00:13:12,761
Helen: was always

394
00:13:12,765 --> 00:13:12,945
Richard: the

395
00:13:13,125 --> 00:13:13,815
the lime, wasn't

396
00:13:13,841 --> 00:13:13,901
Helen: it?

397
00:13:13,901 --> 00:13:14,501
Oh, don't worry too

398
00:13:14,505 --> 00:13:15,375
Richard: much about Trump because

399
00:13:15,401 --> 00:13:16,841
Helen: the checks and balances would kick.

400
00:13:16,841 --> 00:13:16,931
in

401
00:13:17,460 --> 00:13:18,545
a lot better this time though.

402
00:13:18,545 --> 00:13:20,855
So without getting too conspiratorial.

403
00:13:20,860 --> 00:13:21,200
No, I mean,

404
00:13:21,580 --> 00:13:22,200
all agree to

405
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:22,480
disagree.

406
00:13:23,898 --> 00:13:25,715
No, I mean, he's not Better Okay.

407
00:13:25,715 --> 00:13:28,175
getting what he, he wants or
the people who work for him.

408
00:13:28,175 --> 00:13:32,045
So in, um, Steven Miller, who's
effectively his minister, you know, he has

409
00:13:32,045 --> 00:13:34,415
got a doctrinaire anti-immigration idea.

410
00:13:34,415 --> 00:13:37,650
Ideolog, who is crucially quite
well liked by his staff and

411
00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:39,065
really good at bureaucracy, right?

412
00:13:39,125 --> 00:13:42,875
He, he's not a, although his
wife a podcaster, inevitably.

413
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:46,145
'cause that's the law, someone
in his family's got a podcast

414
00:13:46,145 --> 00:13:47,165
and it's gonna have to be you.

415
00:13:47,615 --> 00:13:51,210
Um, so, you know, he's got these
kind of dry bureaucrats essentially

416
00:13:51,210 --> 00:13:52,085
in now.

417
00:13:52,475 --> 00:13:54,425
And thanks to things Project

418
00:13:54,425 --> 00:13:58,320
2025, which was the Heritage Foundation's
blueprint for a second Trump government,

419
00:13:58,350 --> 00:14:03,240
he's got a kind of tick list of stuff that
he can do often using executive orders.

420
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,165
You saw the big barrage of them at start.

421
00:14:05,525 --> 00:14:08,975
Lots of those, when they eventually up
at the Supreme Court will get overturned.

422
00:14:08,975 --> 00:14:09,155
But

423
00:14:09,155 --> 00:14:09,215
it

424
00:14:09,215 --> 00:14:09,665
takes

425
00:14:09,875 --> 00:14:11,075
months and

426
00:14:11,075 --> 00:14:13,985
the Supreme Court gets to pick
its docket to some extent.

427
00:14:13,985 --> 00:14:14,225
So it

428
00:14:14,225 --> 00:14:16,290
can pick and choose what
it wants to look at.

429
00:14:16,844 --> 00:14:17,204
I mean,

430
00:14:17,260 --> 00:14:19,660
the midterms are, coming
up and that really might be

431
00:14:19,660 --> 00:14:20,770
when it changes everything.

432
00:14:21,134 --> 00:14:24,524
and also at that point, lots
of Republicans start thinking

433
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:26,444
about their positioning 2028.

434
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:28,420
Do they want to be left holding this?

435
00:14:28,780 --> 00:14:28,960
on?

436
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:30,760
Probably by that point, unpopular failed

437
00:14:30,794 --> 00:14:35,459
war And that might encourage a few of
them grow tiny whisper of a vertebrae.

438
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:35,680
Just

439
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:35,740
to

440
00:14:36,209 --> 00:14:36,599
Ian: yeah.

441
00:14:36,940 --> 00:14:37,060
Helen: I'm

442
00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:37,960
interested you say that,

443
00:14:38,244 --> 00:14:40,164
Ian: there's no one pointing
these things out and.

444
00:14:40,194 --> 00:14:41,004
until The

445
00:14:41,004 --> 00:14:42,604
head of counter-terrorism says,

446
00:14:42,844 --> 00:14:44,494
do you think Israel's leading this war?

447
00:14:44,614 --> 00:14:45,904
I mean, last week on

448
00:14:45,915 --> 00:14:46,005
Helen: our

449
00:14:46,384 --> 00:14:46,864
Ian: page,

450
00:14:47,344 --> 00:14:47,554
uh,

451
00:14:47,565 --> 00:14:48,405
Helen: one of our readers,

452
00:14:48,484 --> 00:14:48,964
Ian: know, and this is a

453
00:14:48,964 --> 00:14:49,264
full

454
00:14:49,275 --> 00:14:49,755
Helen: two weeks

455
00:14:49,774 --> 00:14:52,054
Ian: ahead, said, I think
we should call this the

456
00:14:52,065 --> 00:14:53,355
Helen: Israel, US

457
00:14:53,985 --> 00:14:54,375
Iran

458
00:14:54,514 --> 00:14:56,284
Ian: And I thought,
well, that's quite good.

459
00:14:56,284 --> 00:14:58,354
That's from one of our
readers is is there no one of

460
00:14:58,365 --> 00:14:58,935
Helen: that level

461
00:14:59,014 --> 00:14:59,974
Ian: competence

462
00:15:00,405 --> 00:15:01,155
Helen: operating in

463
00:15:01,155 --> 00:15:01,245
the

464
00:15:01,444 --> 00:15:02,404
House?

465
00:15:02,674 --> 00:15:07,024
I mean, as I say, most of the people
I think are really competent are

466
00:15:07,024 --> 00:15:08,865
on the domestic side of policy.

467
00:15:09,424 --> 00:15:10,624
And you know, the thing is,

468
00:15:10,684 --> 00:15:14,404
I mentioned this before in my that
um, you've got Jared Kushner, for

469
00:15:14,404 --> 00:15:16,185
example, one of the envoys

470
00:15:16,215 --> 00:15:18,934
and, uh, Woff, they're
also supposed to be doing

471
00:15:18,994 --> 00:15:19,684
Ukraine.

472
00:15:20,374 --> 00:15:24,004
You know, you've got a situation now in
which the US is also blockading Cuba.

473
00:15:24,334 --> 00:15:24,574
Right.

474
00:15:24,574 --> 00:15:25,084
Cuba's had

475
00:15:25,084 --> 00:15:27,364
power cuts intermittently, and they're all

476
00:15:27,375 --> 00:15:28,035
kind of going, well.

477
00:15:28,144 --> 00:15:31,804
we should, there was a report in
Atlantic, my other organization saying

478
00:15:31,804 --> 00:15:34,744
that they're casting round for a
Republican donor with family links to

479
00:15:34,744 --> 00:15:38,164
Cuba who might fancy going over and
having a, having a crack at being in

480
00:15:38,419 --> 00:15:38,509
Andy: of

481
00:15:38,534 --> 00:15:38,654
q

482
00:15:38,925 --> 00:15:39,305
Helen: to being

483
00:15:39,310 --> 00:15:39,750
the governor.

484
00:15:40,534 --> 00:15:42,570
I mean, there's lots, there's
a big Republican Florida

485
00:15:42,570 --> 00:15:46,024
community of of of expats who'd love
to have a crack at being head of Cuba.

486
00:15:46,384 --> 00:15:47,704
They give you your own cigar.

487
00:15:47,730 --> 00:15:48,120
Absolutely.

488
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:48,210
Your

489
00:15:48,210 --> 00:15:49,290
life expectancy is

490
00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:49,879
Ian: six

491
00:15:49,879 --> 00:15:50,054
to eight

492
00:15:50,119 --> 00:15:50,329
Richard: months.

493
00:15:50,329 --> 00:15:51,439
It sounds to be like reform

494
00:15:51,439 --> 00:15:52,639
taking over councils

495
00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:53,162
Helen: here, doesn't it?

496
00:15:54,420 --> 00:15:55,080
So warmer.

497
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:55,230
A

498
00:15:55,230 --> 00:15:55,410
lot

499
00:15:55,414 --> 00:15:55,654
Ian: warmer.

500
00:15:55,844 --> 00:15:56,134
Yeah.

501
00:15:56,209 --> 00:15:57,169
So Trump's cut off

502
00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:57,270
Helen: the

503
00:15:57,270 --> 00:15:57,540
oil

504
00:15:57,649 --> 00:15:58,129
Ian: Cuba

505
00:15:58,429 --> 00:15:59,629
and opened it again.

506
00:15:59,629 --> 00:15:59,839
So

507
00:15:59,850 --> 00:16:00,210
Helen: Iran

508
00:16:00,210 --> 00:16:00,417
can

509
00:16:00,424 --> 00:16:00,874
Andy: sell.

510
00:16:00,964 --> 00:16:01,564
Yes.

511
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:02,700
Helen: I want, can you

512
00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:03,159
explain

513
00:16:03,210 --> 00:16:03,330
this.

514
00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:04,650
So yes, I,

515
00:16:04,777 --> 00:16:05,734
Andy: this is exactly what I to ask.

516
00:16:05,794 --> 00:16:06,304
So, so far

517
00:16:06,304 --> 00:16:07,264
as far as I can tell, there are

518
00:16:07,290 --> 00:16:09,420
Helen: three beneficiaries of the war.

519
00:16:09,420 --> 00:16:11,700
One is a big American oil

520
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:12,810
exporters of visa.

521
00:16:12,810 --> 00:16:12,900
Mm-hmm.

522
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:14,040
The price has gone up enormously.

523
00:16:14,494 --> 00:16:14,854
Andy: Uh,

524
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,050
Helen: one is Russia.

525
00:16:16,504 --> 00:16:17,489
Andy: Uh, they'll, they'll

526
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,260
Helen: get a lot more and they've
just had their sanctions lifted.

527
00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:20,070
And the third is

528
00:16:20,430 --> 00:16:21,120
Iran.

529
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,040
The USA seems to have allied

530
00:16:23,070 --> 00:16:25,410
with Iran to lift its
sanctions to ensure that the

531
00:16:25,410 --> 00:16:26,220
prices

532
00:16:26,494 --> 00:16:26,854
Andy: don't go

533
00:16:26,970 --> 00:16:28,050
Helen: completely outta control.

534
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:28,800
Richard: well this is

535
00:16:28,846 --> 00:16:29,351
Helen: is what's going

536
00:16:29,351 --> 00:16:29,711
on there?

537
00:16:30,351 --> 00:16:33,070
Richard: You know, like we were talking
about earlier, just not understanding the

538
00:16:33,070 --> 00:16:35,080
consequences of reaction of your actions.

539
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,300
You know, this is gonna hit
the oil price that's gonna

540
00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:38,200
hit inflation.

541
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,690
Um, oh, we didn't really think about that.

542
00:16:40,690 --> 00:16:43,930
You know, you go to war in the Middle East
and don't think about the effect on the

543
00:16:43,956 --> 00:16:44,166
Helen: oil

544
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:44,811
Richard: oil price

545
00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:46,450
until,

546
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:48,250
until a bit later.

547
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:48,760
Um,

548
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:50,470
so yeah, I mean, it is must

549
00:16:50,496 --> 00:16:52,648
Helen: be the most, perhaps
the only example of,

550
00:16:52,999 --> 00:16:55,673
Richard: one power funding
its enemy during a war

551
00:16:55,740 --> 00:16:57,626
Helen: It reminded me a
bit of the Russian invasion

552
00:16:57,676 --> 00:16:58,906
Andy: Ukraine, where

553
00:16:58,906 --> 00:16:59,446
Europe is

554
00:16:59,486 --> 00:17:01,226
Helen: still using a a, Yeah, a

555
00:17:01,576 --> 00:17:02,026
Andy: of, I

556
00:17:02,036 --> 00:17:02,576
Helen: mean, they've

557
00:17:02,746 --> 00:17:03,556
Andy: to diversify

558
00:17:03,566 --> 00:17:03,956
Helen: a lot

559
00:17:03,956 --> 00:17:04,136
away

560
00:17:04,306 --> 00:17:04,576
Andy: Russian

561
00:17:04,586 --> 00:17:04,916
Helen: gas and

562
00:17:05,086 --> 00:17:05,176
Andy: and

563
00:17:05,176 --> 00:17:07,036
they've, I think they'll
have completed the job next

564
00:17:07,046 --> 00:17:07,936
Helen: year, but

565
00:17:07,936 --> 00:17:10,486
Richard: Well, I think, I think they
just haven't understood that, you know,

566
00:17:10,486 --> 00:17:12,616
the markets are all interconnected.

567
00:17:13,246 --> 00:17:14,956
Uh, it's not, you know, we don't get

568
00:17:14,981 --> 00:17:15,971
Helen: our oil from,

569
00:17:16,216 --> 00:17:20,386
Richard: you know, friendly countries
and domestically and, and, and, you

570
00:17:20,386 --> 00:17:22,456
know, Iran just sends it to China and

571
00:17:22,691 --> 00:17:23,291
Helen: Yeah, whoever,

572
00:17:23,789 --> 00:17:24,929
Richard: that it all goes on the same

573
00:17:24,929 --> 00:17:27,689
market and therefore you get this
terrible effect on prices and

574
00:17:27,689 --> 00:17:28,739
not really understood that, and

575
00:17:29,095 --> 00:17:29,875
Helen: not understood

576
00:17:30,629 --> 00:17:31,259
Richard: the way that we

577
00:17:31,285 --> 00:17:32,005
Helen: actually help.

578
00:17:32,229 --> 00:17:35,079
Richard: break any kind of ring
fence that you might wanna set

579
00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:37,539
up by using places like Dubai

580
00:17:37,569 --> 00:17:42,001
where, Iran and root oil pretty
much to wherever it wants

581
00:17:42,001 --> 00:17:43,381
through centers like that.

582
00:17:43,428 --> 00:17:45,738
Helen: but he doesn't understand
tariffs, so it's possible

583
00:17:45,738 --> 00:17:46,068
he just

584
00:17:46,068 --> 00:17:47,178
also willfully

585
00:17:47,688 --> 00:17:47,928
Yeah.

586
00:17:48,903 --> 00:17:49,473
international

587
00:17:49,473 --> 00:17:50,013
markets.

588
00:17:50,452 --> 00:17:50,782
Richard: Yeah.

589
00:17:50,782 --> 00:17:51,262
And there's a

590
00:17:51,273 --> 00:17:51,753
Helen: similar

591
00:17:51,753 --> 00:17:52,263
sort of,

592
00:17:52,312 --> 00:17:52,702
Richard: uh,

593
00:17:52,762 --> 00:17:53,662
you know, this

594
00:17:53,703 --> 00:17:55,023
Helen: negotiating tactic

595
00:17:55,042 --> 00:17:59,302
Richard: with ta with tariffs where we're
gonna, you know, if you don't come to the

596
00:17:59,313 --> 00:18:00,303
Helen: table, we're putting a

597
00:18:00,472 --> 00:18:02,182
Richard: massive tariff on you, and then

598
00:18:02,403 --> 00:18:03,543
Helen: the time comes and you

599
00:18:03,772 --> 00:18:04,492
Richard: sort of, like,

600
00:18:04,533 --> 00:18:05,403
Helen: oh no, we'll give you another

601
00:18:05,632 --> 00:18:06,382
Richard: of months.

602
00:18:06,473 --> 00:18:06,672
You know,

603
00:18:06,683 --> 00:18:07,643
Helen: this is the guy who's

604
00:18:07,643 --> 00:18:10,373
supposedly, uh, you know,
the great negotiator.

605
00:18:10,373 --> 00:18:11,693
But what you've learned is that

606
00:18:12,072 --> 00:18:14,232
Richard: you can't
believe any, any threat he

607
00:18:14,363 --> 00:18:14,532
Helen: he says

608
00:18:14,582 --> 00:18:16,292
Richard: doesn't really stand up.

609
00:18:16,393 --> 00:18:16,483
Helen: The

610
00:18:16,483 --> 00:18:16,783
trouble

611
00:18:16,783 --> 00:18:17,102
is

612
00:18:17,113 --> 00:18:18,645
that, If he did go

613
00:18:18,814 --> 00:18:20,014
Richard: with those threats, they're so

614
00:18:20,014 --> 00:18:21,070
catastrophic

615
00:18:21,070 --> 00:18:22,902
Helen: but it seems like a lot
of these red lines have already

616
00:18:22,902 --> 00:18:23,652
been crossed.

617
00:18:24,162 --> 00:18:25,662
I mean, they were in the middle
of a negotiation when the

618
00:18:25,666 --> 00:18:26,176
Andy: war was launched.

619
00:18:26,202 --> 00:18:29,532
Helen: So why would Iran come
to the table to negotiate and

620
00:18:29,532 --> 00:18:29,754
enter

621
00:18:29,772 --> 00:18:30,192
the war,

622
00:18:31,006 --> 00:18:31,486
Andy: given that,

623
00:18:31,962 --> 00:18:32,232
Helen: yeah.

624
00:18:32,232 --> 00:18:32,562
Trump has

625
00:18:32,562 --> 00:18:33,522
shown that his word is not

626
00:18:34,062 --> 00:18:34,201
to

627
00:18:34,262 --> 00:18:34,366
Ian: be

628
00:18:34,366 --> 00:18:34,696
relied

629
00:18:34,696 --> 00:18:34,816
on.

630
00:18:35,071 --> 00:18:36,071
I, don't, I don't think theirs

631
00:18:36,071 --> 00:18:36,231
is

632
00:18:36,231 --> 00:18:36,511
either.

633
00:18:37,011 --> 00:18:37,231
To

634
00:18:37,231 --> 00:18:37,751
be quite honest.

635
00:18:37,851 --> 00:18:38,111
I'm not,

636
00:18:38,352 --> 00:18:38,712
Helen: Like, I'm not

637
00:18:38,712 --> 00:18:39,792
entirely sure that

638
00:18:39,796 --> 00:18:44,566
Ian: be uh, assembled, uh,
revolutionary guard would be that

639
00:18:44,622 --> 00:18:45,462
Helen: worried about,

640
00:18:45,623 --> 00:18:46,132
Ian: sticking

641
00:18:46,218 --> 00:18:47,898
Helen: their negotiating positions either.

642
00:18:48,178 --> 00:18:49,738
Ian: now I, I'm sure that isn't

643
00:18:49,764 --> 00:18:50,514
Helen: what you meant, but I mean,

644
00:18:50,762 --> 00:18:52,235
Ian: the problem seems to be that

645
00:18:52,261 --> 00:18:52,981
Helen: we're in a phony

646
00:18:52,981 --> 00:18:53,251
war

647
00:18:53,255 --> 00:18:53,495
Ian: where

648
00:18:54,241 --> 00:18:55,111
Helen: if we are a war

649
00:18:55,235 --> 00:18:55,745
Ian: Iran,

650
00:18:55,925 --> 00:18:56,315
why are

651
00:18:56,341 --> 00:18:56,491
Helen: we

652
00:18:57,035 --> 00:18:57,185
Ian: them

653
00:18:57,185 --> 00:18:57,785
to sell

654
00:18:57,995 --> 00:18:58,295
their

655
00:18:58,295 --> 00:18:59,705
oil, freely and make

656
00:18:59,746 --> 00:19:00,226
Helen: more money and

657
00:19:00,635 --> 00:19:01,235
Ian: themselves?

658
00:19:01,546 --> 00:19:02,776
Helen: Why are we encouraging our

659
00:19:03,305 --> 00:19:08,165
Ian: allies And Richard's written about
this to carry on selling Iranian oil.

660
00:19:08,495 --> 00:19:09,995
Um, but just doing it slightly

661
00:19:10,006 --> 00:19:10,876
Helen: under the radar.

662
00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:12,975
Ian: none of this makes
a great deal of sense if

663
00:19:13,016 --> 00:19:14,003
Helen: we were genuinely at

664
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:14,520
Richard: No.

665
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:15,000
Right.

666
00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:16,290
But, but we, we have, you

667
00:19:16,290 --> 00:19:18,990
know, we have allowed them to become so

668
00:19:19,016 --> 00:19:19,586
Helen: embedded

669
00:19:19,586 --> 00:19:19,886
that's

670
00:19:19,980 --> 00:19:21,736
Richard: issue, you know, yes, it

671
00:19:21,736 --> 00:19:24,466
would be great if you could say
around, you're not selling any oil.

672
00:19:24,706 --> 00:19:27,406
Um, and, and they're, you know, and they

673
00:19:27,432 --> 00:19:28,482
Helen: suffer the consequences.

674
00:19:28,516 --> 00:19:31,486
Richard: But, you know,
it, it's in the system.

675
00:19:31,486 --> 00:19:31,996
We've, we've

676
00:19:32,047 --> 00:19:32,367
Helen: created

677
00:19:32,637 --> 00:19:33,247
that system,

678
00:19:33,606 --> 00:19:35,111
Is it international capitalism?

679
00:19:35,136 --> 00:19:35,286
Richard?

680
00:19:36,441 --> 00:19:37,451
Yeah, it was

681
00:19:37,656 --> 00:19:38,906
Richard: scourge of,

682
00:19:40,796 --> 00:19:41,086
Andy: Just

683
00:19:41,251 --> 00:19:41,371
Helen: checking.

684
00:19:41,681 --> 00:19:41,971
Okay.

685
00:19:42,461 --> 00:19:42,911
I mean,

686
00:19:43,271 --> 00:19:47,441
this is, if anything, a resounding sort
of cheer international capitalism because

687
00:19:47,441 --> 00:19:50,951
that's appears me the only thing that has
any restraining value on Donald Trump.

688
00:19:50,951 --> 00:19:51,281
Right.

689
00:19:51,666 --> 00:19:54,066
He obviously made the announcement
that he did because he's very

690
00:19:54,371 --> 00:19:56,651
about inflation and the economy,

691
00:19:56,676 --> 00:19:58,926
and particularly American
gas prices, which are like

692
00:19:58,961 --> 00:19:59,441
kind of

693
00:19:59,861 --> 00:20:00,311
holy

694
00:20:00,341 --> 00:20:00,881
Andy: value.

695
00:20:00,966 --> 00:20:01,056
Helen: I

696
00:20:01,056 --> 00:20:03,666
know they've gone from American
petro prices have gone from insanely

697
00:20:03,671 --> 00:20:04,421
Andy: cheap to criminally

698
00:20:04,421 --> 00:20:04,901
cheap, and the

699
00:20:04,901 --> 00:20:05,231
American

700
00:20:05,256 --> 00:20:06,096
Helen: people will not

701
00:20:06,096 --> 00:20:06,276
put

702
00:20:06,276 --> 00:20:06,426
up

703
00:20:06,426 --> 00:20:06,618
with

704
00:20:06,636 --> 00:20:08,526
those Extraordinary

705
00:20:08,526 --> 00:20:08,886
prices.

706
00:20:08,886 --> 00:20:08,946
They

707
00:20:08,966 --> 00:20:09,176
Andy: have to,

708
00:20:09,906 --> 00:20:12,206
Helen: honestly, as a Brit
looking at those prices, you

709
00:20:12,206 --> 00:20:12,716
think, come on.

710
00:20:12,866 --> 00:20:15,806
I know I quite regularly fill up
like a big SUV Sorry, close your

711
00:20:15,806 --> 00:20:16,611
is, you don't wanna hear sorry.

712
00:20:16,611 --> 00:20:19,731
When I'm across America and I
go and I'm like, and I, and I

713
00:20:19,761 --> 00:20:21,081
consistently, because

714
00:20:21,081 --> 00:20:21,806
my, you've charged

715
00:20:21,806 --> 00:20:22,316
me for the chocolate

716
00:20:22,316 --> 00:20:22,496
bar.

717
00:20:22,496 --> 00:20:22,796
here, right?

718
00:20:22,796 --> 00:20:24,231
because my car doesn't work.

719
00:20:24,231 --> 00:20:26,666
Like you have have the special mag,
stripe card, whatever in America.

720
00:20:26,666 --> 00:20:28,706
I often have to go in
and prepay for the pump.

721
00:20:28,706 --> 00:20:31,736
And I always, I go, well, that's
a, I'm essentially driving a tank.

722
00:20:31,736 --> 00:20:34,256
It's probably gonna cost what,
like $50 to fill that up.

723
00:20:34,521 --> 00:20:34,791
And then

724
00:20:34,791 --> 00:20:36,771
every time I've massively overestimated.

725
00:20:36,956 --> 00:20:37,136
Andy: Mm-hmm.

726
00:20:37,136 --> 00:20:37,316
Helen: Did

727
00:20:37,341 --> 00:20:40,731
you, um, talk about Saturday Live,
did you see that Donald Trump reposted

728
00:20:40,731 --> 00:20:43,641
the Saturday Night Live sketch,
taking the piss out of ki Yeah.

729
00:20:43,646 --> 00:20:43,851
For, For

730
00:20:43,991 --> 00:20:44,441
Andy: afraid of

731
00:20:44,441 --> 00:20:44,621
him.

732
00:20:44,741 --> 00:20:44,921
The un

733
00:20:44,966 --> 00:20:45,471
Helen: Kind of cut

734
00:20:45,471 --> 00:20:45,801
of off.

735
00:20:46,901 --> 00:20:47,181
I know.

736
00:20:47,546 --> 00:20:51,021
But I, but that also kind of reflects
that other thing that we've been talking

737
00:20:51,021 --> 00:20:54,596
about, about the Trump's belief that his
allies are really stepped up for him.

738
00:20:54,596 --> 00:20:57,806
And he was sort of like, why haven't you
not guys not open the strait of s s You

739
00:20:57,851 --> 00:20:58,091
Ian: won't

740
00:20:58,091 --> 00:20:58,331
eat

741
00:20:58,331 --> 00:20:58,361
a

742
00:20:58,361 --> 00:20:58,713
bunch of

743
00:20:58,721 --> 00:20:59,231
ingrates.

744
00:20:59,251 --> 00:21:00,659
Helen: but petrol prices will go

745
00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:01,549
Andy: as you say,

746
00:21:01,649 --> 00:21:03,689
Helen: and Americans do
drive twice as far with

747
00:21:03,859 --> 00:21:04,639
Andy: less efficient cars.

748
00:21:04,679 --> 00:21:05,339
Helen: So it will, it will

749
00:21:05,539 --> 00:21:05,749
Andy: people

750
00:21:05,789 --> 00:21:06,299
Helen: that won't it?

751
00:21:06,299 --> 00:21:08,044
Or certain people will
feel it in their pockets.

752
00:21:08,074 --> 00:21:10,774
Oh, I mean, it's, it's just
an unfathomably vast country.

753
00:21:10,774 --> 00:21:13,559
So even just like the logistics
of getting food and things around

754
00:21:13,564 --> 00:21:16,379
the country have a huge knock on
effect, even if people weren't

755
00:21:16,624 --> 00:21:18,364
driving pickup

756
00:21:18,364 --> 00:21:19,349
trucks where the wheels

757
00:21:19,349 --> 00:21:20,249
are like that high.

758
00:21:20,254 --> 00:21:20,274
Right,

759
00:21:20,329 --> 00:21:20,921
Andy: right,

760
00:21:20,929 --> 00:21:20,939
right.

761
00:21:21,259 --> 00:21:21,419
You, but

762
00:21:21,419 --> 00:21:21,429
yeah.

763
00:21:21,434 --> 00:21:23,084
Helen: But America is more
insulated than lots of

764
00:21:23,089 --> 00:21:23,839
Andy: other places.

765
00:21:23,869 --> 00:21:24,229
Is

766
00:21:24,374 --> 00:21:24,884
Helen: is another

767
00:21:25,054 --> 00:21:25,444
element

768
00:21:25,444 --> 00:21:25,564
of

769
00:21:25,564 --> 00:21:25,856
this whole

770
00:21:25,864 --> 00:21:26,104
thing,

771
00:21:26,134 --> 00:21:26,404
is this

772
00:21:26,404 --> 00:21:28,144
because of the shale gas?

773
00:21:28,219 --> 00:21:28,301
Andy: They're

774
00:21:28,309 --> 00:21:28,789
fracking?

775
00:21:28,964 --> 00:21:29,144
Helen: Yeah.

776
00:21:29,204 --> 00:21:30,494
Well, since the,

777
00:21:30,529 --> 00:21:31,759
Andy: the 1973

778
00:21:31,784 --> 00:21:34,694
Helen: oil crisis, the
oil Shock America was a

779
00:21:34,699 --> 00:21:35,539
Andy: big net importer at

780
00:21:35,564 --> 00:21:36,584
Helen: the time, and now they're a big net

781
00:21:36,619 --> 00:21:37,279
Andy: exporter.

782
00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:37,399
I

783
00:21:37,424 --> 00:21:38,384
Helen: that will affect their

784
00:21:38,624 --> 00:21:38,804
their

785
00:21:39,199 --> 00:21:39,559
Andy: to it.

786
00:21:39,854 --> 00:21:40,394
Helen: All the Asian

787
00:21:40,849 --> 00:21:42,109
Andy: are having a driver

788
00:21:42,164 --> 00:21:42,314
Helen: time.

789
00:21:42,404 --> 00:21:44,774
they've already gone to four day
weeks in various places because

790
00:21:44,774 --> 00:21:46,364
they're trying to preserve the

791
00:21:46,699 --> 00:21:47,749
Andy: they've got, um,

792
00:21:47,774 --> 00:21:50,924
Helen: they've set limits on what
you can set the air conditioning

793
00:21:50,924 --> 00:21:52,814
to because the, the electricity

794
00:21:52,939 --> 00:21:53,719
Andy: gas based.

795
00:21:53,719 --> 00:21:54,829
So there are plenty of

796
00:21:54,854 --> 00:21:55,784
Helen: countries that are in a mad

797
00:21:55,784 --> 00:21:56,354
scramble at

798
00:21:56,354 --> 00:21:56,414
the

799
00:21:56,414 --> 00:21:56,654
moment

800
00:21:56,719 --> 00:21:56,899
Andy: try

801
00:21:56,899 --> 00:21:57,109
and

802
00:21:57,614 --> 00:21:58,094
Helen: deal with

803
00:21:58,429 --> 00:21:58,939
Andy: and

804
00:21:59,144 --> 00:22:00,296
Helen: not knowing when full

805
00:22:00,314 --> 00:22:00,644
supplies

806
00:22:00,664 --> 00:22:01,144
Richard: will be resumed.

807
00:22:01,594 --> 00:22:01,684
But,

808
00:22:01,774 --> 00:22:01,894
Helen: And

809
00:22:01,894 --> 00:22:02,044
there is

810
00:22:02,134 --> 00:22:02,704
a feeling that,

811
00:22:02,855 --> 00:22:07,235
Ian: And old Sparky was writing it for
us, is that, um, it's a big crisis,

812
00:22:07,235 --> 00:22:08,855
but it's particularly a crisis if you

813
00:22:08,855 --> 00:22:08,945
are

814
00:22:08,945 --> 00:22:08,975
a

815
00:22:08,975 --> 00:22:09,725
poor country.

816
00:22:09,995 --> 00:22:11,045
because the remaining

817
00:22:11,086 --> 00:22:11,446
Helen: stocks

818
00:22:11,615 --> 00:22:12,905
Ian: be, you'll be outbid.

819
00:22:13,145 --> 00:22:13,625
Sorry.

820
00:22:13,756 --> 00:22:14,026
Helen: Yeah.

821
00:22:14,026 --> 00:22:14,176
other

822
00:22:14,345 --> 00:22:16,205
Ian: countries will buy the liquified gas.

823
00:22:16,415 --> 00:22:19,729
They'll buy whatever there is, and
if you are Bangladesh it's gonna be a

824
00:22:19,729 --> 00:22:20,299
bit grim.

825
00:22:20,299 --> 00:22:20,359
Yeah.

826
00:22:20,733 --> 00:22:21,423
Helen: we have a war in

827
00:22:21,682 --> 00:22:22,672
Ian: the richest western

828
00:22:22,672 --> 00:22:23,512
country America is

829
00:22:23,512 --> 00:22:25,132
saying, well, we can keep this war going.

830
00:22:25,282 --> 00:22:26,062
You're thinking, Yeah.

831
00:22:26,252 --> 00:22:26,542
Richard: what

832
00:22:26,763 --> 00:22:27,123
Helen: what about

833
00:22:27,123 --> 00:22:27,172
the

834
00:22:27,183 --> 00:22:27,393
rest

835
00:22:27,393 --> 00:22:27,453
of

836
00:22:27,453 --> 00:22:27,573
the

837
00:22:27,573 --> 00:22:27,843
world?

838
00:22:27,873 --> 00:22:27,993
Yeah.

839
00:22:28,409 --> 00:22:28,679
So

840
00:22:28,679 --> 00:22:30,299
we spoke last time on the show about what

841
00:22:30,498 --> 00:22:31,548
Andy: in Pakistan after

842
00:22:31,589 --> 00:22:34,769
Helen: Russia invaded Ukraine, uh,
in relation to their energy system.

843
00:22:35,052 --> 00:22:35,652
Pakistan

844
00:22:36,031 --> 00:22:36,301
Andy: then

845
00:22:36,372 --> 00:22:38,442
Helen: had a bit of a Soler
revolution where they've

846
00:22:38,971 --> 00:22:40,381
Andy: I mean, huge numbers

847
00:22:40,422 --> 00:22:42,042
Helen: like gigawatts
and gigawatts of Soler

848
00:22:42,629 --> 00:22:43,859
that has changed Pakistan's

849
00:22:44,223 --> 00:22:44,883
Andy: to, to

850
00:22:44,909 --> 00:22:46,529
Helen: a greater extent than Bangladesh

851
00:22:46,653 --> 00:22:47,943
Andy: where Bangladesh
is still very reliant.

852
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,869
Helen: we have can I float
a new conspiracy though?

853
00:22:49,869 --> 00:22:49,989
Yeah.

854
00:22:50,019 --> 00:22:51,639
Which is that Trump is actually being

855
00:22:51,639 --> 00:22:52,239
Andy: controlled by

856
00:22:52,239 --> 00:22:52,989
Greta Thunberg

857
00:22:53,859 --> 00:22:54,305
Helen: because this

858
00:22:54,305 --> 00:22:54,485
war

859
00:22:54,579 --> 00:22:56,345
just a giant advert for

860
00:22:56,349 --> 00:22:57,099
like de

861
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:57,755
fossilizing

862
00:22:57,755 --> 00:22:58,055
your

863
00:22:58,059 --> 00:22:58,595
economy.

864
00:22:58,764 --> 00:22:58,854
I

865
00:22:58,854 --> 00:22:59,424
like, I like

866
00:22:59,428 --> 00:22:59,548
that

867
00:22:59,548 --> 00:22:59,818
theory.

868
00:22:59,818 --> 00:23:00,298
He's actually

869
00:23:00,298 --> 00:23:00,568
all this

870
00:23:00,594 --> 00:23:00,894
time he's

871
00:23:00,894 --> 00:23:01,014
been

872
00:23:01,014 --> 00:23:01,104
a

873
00:23:01,104 --> 00:23:01,614
mole,

874
00:23:02,278 --> 00:23:02,878
He's been run

875
00:23:03,028 --> 00:23:03,628
incredibly

876
00:23:03,628 --> 00:23:03,988
deep

877
00:23:03,988 --> 00:23:04,438
cover.

878
00:23:04,438 --> 00:23:04,528
deep.

879
00:23:04,969 --> 00:23:05,629
you know, just putting

880
00:23:05,724 --> 00:23:09,744
Richard: the, uh, you know,
reforming alternative, uh, perhaps

881
00:23:09,784 --> 00:23:10,054
Helen: it's an A

882
00:23:10,284 --> 00:23:11,724
Richard: for having, you know,

883
00:23:12,064 --> 00:23:13,594
Helen: emergency supplies of your own,

884
00:23:13,703 --> 00:23:13,893
Andy: maybe

885
00:23:13,913 --> 00:23:14,573
we should drill

886
00:23:14,584 --> 00:23:15,454
Helen: the North Sea.

887
00:23:15,454 --> 00:23:16,834
I'm just gonna float the idea.

888
00:23:17,113 --> 00:23:17,478
it, first, but it is about

889
00:23:17,567 --> 00:23:18,227
Richard: about energy

890
00:23:18,253 --> 00:23:18,793
Helen: security.

891
00:23:18,793 --> 00:23:19,903
I mean, it does show, you

892
00:23:20,418 --> 00:23:20,498
know,

893
00:23:20,527 --> 00:23:21,647
Andy: importance of security.

894
00:23:22,003 --> 00:23:22,603
Helen: Absolutely.

895
00:23:22,603 --> 00:23:23,263
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

896
00:23:23,732 --> 00:23:24,272
Andy: Um,

897
00:23:24,373 --> 00:23:24,853
Helen: but it's,

898
00:23:24,853 --> 00:23:25,063
it's

899
00:23:25,063 --> 00:23:25,273
funny

900
00:23:25,273 --> 00:23:25,393
'cause

901
00:23:25,592 --> 00:23:25,922
Andy: time these.

902
00:23:26,833 --> 00:23:27,373
Helen: Crises

903
00:23:27,373 --> 00:23:28,003
happen and they

904
00:23:28,003 --> 00:23:28,363
do keep

905
00:23:28,367 --> 00:23:28,877
Andy: happening.

906
00:23:29,604 --> 00:23:31,764
Helen: The alternatives are
looking better economically.

907
00:23:31,768 --> 00:23:32,428
Andy: You know, things like

908
00:23:32,758 --> 00:23:34,348
battery storage, which is probably

909
00:23:34,404 --> 00:23:34,884
Helen: down by

910
00:23:34,884 --> 00:23:36,654
about half since 2022.

911
00:23:36,718 --> 00:23:37,108
Andy: I mean,

912
00:23:37,494 --> 00:23:38,724
Helen: the cost of the alternatives

913
00:23:38,968 --> 00:23:39,628
Andy: on changing.

914
00:23:39,884 --> 00:23:41,924
Helen: China is the fourth
beneficiary of this war, really,

915
00:23:41,928 --> 00:23:42,318
Andy: because I think

916
00:23:42,344 --> 00:23:43,184
Helen: a lot of countries will be

917
00:23:43,188 --> 00:23:43,818
Andy: looking at their

918
00:23:44,534 --> 00:23:46,454
Helen: plans for big
expansions of natural gas

919
00:23:46,454 --> 00:23:46,904
and thinking,

920
00:23:47,418 --> 00:23:49,218
Andy: Hmm, maybe

921
00:23:49,218 --> 00:23:49,428
we

922
00:23:49,454 --> 00:23:50,024
Helen: could just do

923
00:23:50,024 --> 00:23:50,234
a bit

924
00:23:50,234 --> 00:23:50,324
of

925
00:23:50,628 --> 00:23:51,318
Andy: and storage

926
00:23:51,434 --> 00:23:52,184
Helen: quite sunny here.

927
00:23:52,518 --> 00:23:52,608
Andy: is

928
00:23:52,608 --> 00:23:53,298
quite cheap now,

929
00:23:53,612 --> 00:23:53,732
Helen: But

930
00:23:53,732 --> 00:23:53,852
we'll

931
00:23:53,852 --> 00:23:54,122
drill the

932
00:23:54,122 --> 00:23:54,392
North Sea

933
00:23:54,392 --> 00:23:54,482
and

934
00:23:54,576 --> 00:23:54,696
Andy: be

935
00:23:54,696 --> 00:23:54,786
all

936
00:23:54,786 --> 00:23:55,026
right.

937
00:23:55,836 --> 00:23:55,986
Uh,

938
00:23:55,986 --> 00:23:56,076
Richard: Yeah,

939
00:23:56,552 --> 00:23:58,502
Helen: That, that's the default opposition

940
00:23:58,502 --> 00:23:58,982
position at

941
00:23:59,031 --> 00:23:59,324
Ian: moment,

942
00:23:59,331 --> 00:23:59,541
isn't

943
00:23:59,541 --> 00:23:59,721
it?

944
00:23:59,792 --> 00:24:00,062
Helen: Yeah.

945
00:24:00,212 --> 00:24:00,332
Why

946
00:24:00,332 --> 00:24:00,422
don't

947
00:24:00,422 --> 00:24:00,512
we

948
00:24:00,512 --> 00:24:00,689
just

949
00:24:00,906 --> 00:24:01,686
Andy: the Northeast and

950
00:24:01,892 --> 00:24:02,042
Helen: yeah.

951
00:24:02,042 --> 00:24:02,432
it's kept

952
00:24:02,432 --> 00:24:02,762
happening

953
00:24:02,762 --> 00:24:03,272
since

954
00:24:03,842 --> 00:24:05,407
we, thought we this since podcast when you

955
00:24:05,766 --> 00:24:05,999
Andy: how that

956
00:24:06,006 --> 00:24:06,246
wouldn't

957
00:24:06,246 --> 00:24:06,486
work.

958
00:24:06,491 --> 00:24:06,781
Put this

959
00:24:06,786 --> 00:24:07,026
to bed

960
00:24:07,052 --> 00:24:07,232
Helen: two

961
00:24:07,232 --> 00:24:07,622
weeks ago.

962
00:24:07,622 --> 00:24:07,802
Yeah.

963
00:24:07,892 --> 00:24:08,762
Um, now you,

964
00:24:08,796 --> 00:24:08,939
Andy: you

965
00:24:08,946 --> 00:24:09,246
keep

966
00:24:09,246 --> 00:24:09,516
putting

967
00:24:09,516 --> 00:24:09,666
it

968
00:24:09,671 --> 00:24:09,701
to

969
00:24:09,701 --> 00:24:09,861
bed

970
00:24:10,652 --> 00:24:11,792
Helen: and it keeps on getting up again.

971
00:24:11,822 --> 00:24:12,222
Yeah, yeah.

972
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:14,318
Ian: It's almost as though, can we Batter

973
00:24:14,318 --> 00:24:14,468
not,

974
00:24:14,569 --> 00:24:15,649
Helen: wasn't listening to you.

975
00:24:15,649 --> 00:24:16,069
Andy,

976
00:24:16,459 --> 00:24:16,579
I

977
00:24:16,793 --> 00:24:17,333
Andy: believe that.

978
00:24:17,758 --> 00:24:18,463
Helen: I've spoken

979
00:24:18,512 --> 00:24:18,692
Ian: this

980
00:24:18,692 --> 00:24:18,932
morning

981
00:24:18,932 --> 00:24:19,052
to

982
00:24:19,052 --> 00:24:19,532
more people

983
00:24:19,532 --> 00:24:19,922
involved

984
00:24:19,933 --> 00:24:20,023
Helen: in

985
00:24:20,023 --> 00:24:20,173
the

986
00:24:20,368 --> 00:24:20,408
I

987
00:24:20,408 --> 00:24:21,223
thought you gonna say Kemi B?

988
00:24:21,583 --> 00:24:21,853
no,

989
00:24:22,213 --> 00:24:22,513
she's

990
00:24:22,513 --> 00:24:23,113
not picking up.

991
00:24:23,751 --> 00:24:24,081
it is

992
00:24:24,085 --> 00:24:24,535
Andy: an interesting

993
00:24:24,561 --> 00:24:24,861
Helen: one 'cause

994
00:24:25,075 --> 00:24:25,645
Andy: of people are putting

995
00:24:25,671 --> 00:24:27,291
Helen: the case that we
need everything all at once.

996
00:24:27,291 --> 00:24:30,861
You know, we need to do everything
to ensure stability and security.

997
00:24:31,439 --> 00:24:32,129
but a lot

998
00:24:32,133 --> 00:24:32,643
Andy: of the sides

999
00:24:32,669 --> 00:24:34,769
Helen: of the debate will say, well, we
need to do everything except the thing

1000
00:24:34,923 --> 00:24:36,063
Andy: chosen we shouldn't do.

1001
00:24:36,063 --> 00:24:36,903
So if

1002
00:24:36,929 --> 00:24:39,719
Helen: you Kimmy Bock or, or
Richard Tyson Nigel Forgi say,

1003
00:24:39,719 --> 00:24:39,839
well,

1004
00:24:39,839 --> 00:24:40,139
we need

1005
00:24:40,139 --> 00:24:40,799
to do everything,

1006
00:24:41,463 --> 00:24:42,483
Andy: but let's not do the renewables.

1007
00:24:42,813 --> 00:24:43,143
Which

1008
00:24:43,499 --> 00:24:44,819
Helen: is basically an argument for doing

1009
00:24:44,823 --> 00:24:45,363
Andy: the North Sea.

1010
00:24:45,363 --> 00:24:47,073
You know, and again,

1011
00:24:47,406 --> 00:24:48,096
Helen: there's a case for

1012
00:24:48,096 --> 00:24:48,516
doing it.

1013
00:24:48,516 --> 00:24:48,756
If you

1014
00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:50,650
Andy: to maybe nationalize

1015
00:24:50,676 --> 00:24:51,576
Helen: the industry, that

1016
00:24:51,576 --> 00:24:52,206
would be,

1017
00:24:52,315 --> 00:24:52,495
that

1018
00:24:52,495 --> 00:24:52,585
would

1019
00:24:52,585 --> 00:24:53,155
be an option.

1020
00:24:53,256 --> 00:24:54,186
What about a lovely

1021
00:24:54,190 --> 00:24:54,970
Andy: nuclear power?

1022
00:24:54,996 --> 00:24:55,296
Helen: plant?

1023
00:24:55,596 --> 00:24:56,016
Yeah.

1024
00:24:56,016 --> 00:24:56,256
10

1025
00:24:56,256 --> 00:24:56,706
years from now.

1026
00:24:56,706 --> 00:24:57,396
Terrific.

1027
00:24:57,516 --> 00:24:57,786
Yeah,

1028
00:24:57,996 --> 00:24:58,386
absolutely.

1029
00:24:58,735 --> 00:24:58,885
would be.

1030
00:24:59,335 --> 00:24:59,515
Andy: When 10,

1031
00:25:01,086 --> 00:25:01,566
Helen: sorry.

1032
00:25:02,095 --> 00:25:02,665
Andy: 20.

1033
00:25:02,815 --> 00:25:02,875
How

1034
00:25:02,875 --> 00:25:02,965
long?

1035
00:25:02,965 --> 00:25:03,475
Any The advance

1036
00:25:03,550 --> 00:25:03,670
Richard: that

1037
00:25:04,191 --> 00:25:04,481
Helen: Yeah.

1038
00:25:04,481 --> 00:25:04,681
Yeah,

1039
00:25:04,795 --> 00:25:05,455
Andy: yeah.

1040
00:25:05,898 --> 00:25:06,258
Helen: it's so

1041
00:25:06,547 --> 00:25:07,927
'
Andy: cause governments keep on having

1042
00:25:07,938 --> 00:25:10,188
Helen: these shocks and, that, you
know, we had the shock in 2022.

1043
00:25:10,188 --> 00:25:10,608
Richie soak,

1044
00:25:10,657 --> 00:25:10,927
Andy: Saks,

1045
00:25:10,987 --> 00:25:12,337
one of his next moves was to say,

1046
00:25:12,558 --> 00:25:14,148
Helen: well, let's roll back the, the

1047
00:25:14,148 --> 00:25:15,168
electric car mandate.

1048
00:25:15,168 --> 00:25:15,528
Let's go

1049
00:25:15,967 --> 00:25:16,237
Andy: Let's,

1050
00:25:16,717 --> 00:25:16,867
let's

1051
00:25:16,955 --> 00:25:18,558
Helen: keep our reliance on this stuff

1052
00:25:18,948 --> 00:25:19,548
for longer.

1053
00:25:19,828 --> 00:25:20,248
the government's

1054
00:25:20,478 --> 00:25:21,858
Andy: package has been pretty decent.

1055
00:25:21,868 --> 00:25:23,158
Helen: What they've
said is very short term.

1056
00:25:23,158 --> 00:25:23,248
If

1057
00:25:23,248 --> 00:25:23,368
you're

1058
00:25:23,688 --> 00:25:23,808
Andy: with

1059
00:25:23,808 --> 00:25:24,138
heating

1060
00:25:24,138 --> 00:25:24,498
oil,

1061
00:25:24,778 --> 00:25:25,108
Helen: but lots of

1062
00:25:25,338 --> 00:25:26,748
Andy: use heating oil, still, we're gonna

1063
00:25:26,788 --> 00:25:27,748
Helen: support you, but in a

1064
00:25:28,338 --> 00:25:28,578
Andy: way

1065
00:25:28,578 --> 00:25:29,118
because

1066
00:25:29,638 --> 00:25:30,238
Helen: they're not yet

1067
00:25:30,738 --> 00:25:32,778
Andy: countenance in the idea
of supporting everyone's bills

1068
00:25:32,778 --> 00:25:33,138
again.

1069
00:25:33,583 --> 00:25:34,123
Helen: Um,

1070
00:25:34,123 --> 00:25:34,273
I'm

1071
00:25:34,273 --> 00:25:34,393
not

1072
00:25:34,393 --> 00:25:34,573
sure

1073
00:25:34,573 --> 00:25:34,693
we

1074
00:25:34,693 --> 00:25:34,903
can

1075
00:25:35,388 --> 00:25:35,568
Ian: that,

1076
00:25:35,568 --> 00:25:35,748
can

1077
00:25:35,748 --> 00:25:35,928
we?

1078
00:25:36,283 --> 00:25:36,403
Helen: It

1079
00:25:36,403 --> 00:25:37,153
doesn't seem like

1080
00:25:37,153 --> 00:25:37,333
it

1081
00:25:37,333 --> 00:25:38,413
Borrowing is quite, quite

1082
00:25:38,413 --> 00:25:38,803
difficult,

1083
00:25:38,803 --> 00:25:38,893
at

1084
00:25:38,893 --> 00:25:39,193
the moment,

1085
00:25:39,348 --> 00:25:40,038
Richard: it, Richard?

1086
00:25:40,382 --> 00:25:42,608
the trouble is that
yeah, it's very difficult

1087
00:25:42,608 --> 00:25:43,088
to get back

1088
00:25:43,129 --> 00:25:43,759
Helen: to normal

1089
00:25:44,089 --> 00:25:44,899
in the meantime.

1090
00:25:45,563 --> 00:25:46,043
Richard: Um,

1091
00:25:46,283 --> 00:25:46,553
you know,

1092
00:25:46,553 --> 00:25:49,073
and often sort of counterproductive.

1093
00:25:49,163 --> 00:25:51,053
cause you're saying, well,
we really gotta reign in now.

1094
00:25:51,053 --> 00:25:52,433
We've gotta cut that debt to get

1095
00:25:52,444 --> 00:25:52,624
Helen: that

1096
00:25:52,624 --> 00:25:53,104
interest

1097
00:25:53,104 --> 00:25:53,434
down

1098
00:25:53,434 --> 00:25:53,524
and

1099
00:25:53,723 --> 00:25:53,933
Richard: on.

1100
00:25:55,063 --> 00:25:55,273
then

1101
00:25:55,344 --> 00:25:55,464
Helen: you

1102
00:25:55,464 --> 00:25:57,234
end up not putting money into

1103
00:25:57,234 --> 00:25:57,684
various

1104
00:25:57,913 --> 00:25:59,443
Richard: like, you know,
and now we're talking about

1105
00:25:59,454 --> 00:26:00,774
Helen: not enough burning to defend,

1106
00:26:00,913 --> 00:26:01,573
Richard: example.

1107
00:26:01,843 --> 00:26:02,338
Um, yeah.

1108
00:26:02,683 --> 00:26:02,863
You

1109
00:26:02,904 --> 00:26:03,354
Helen: know, you don't

1110
00:26:03,703 --> 00:26:05,473
Richard: address the problems.

1111
00:26:05,545 --> 00:26:07,645
you know, like COVID,
we weren't prepared in

1112
00:26:07,645 --> 00:26:08,365
the health service.

1113
00:26:08,406 --> 00:26:08,616
Helen: This

1114
00:26:09,025 --> 00:26:09,595
Richard: has come along.

1115
00:26:10,296 --> 00:26:10,416
Helen: You

1116
00:26:10,525 --> 00:26:11,575
Richard: we've got a couple of

1117
00:26:11,875 --> 00:26:12,925
dinghies we can send

1118
00:26:12,936 --> 00:26:13,236
Helen: over.

1119
00:26:13,236 --> 00:26:13,596
You know, we're

1120
00:26:13,596 --> 00:26:13,776
not

1121
00:26:13,776 --> 00:26:14,065
prepared

1122
00:26:14,170 --> 00:26:14,395
Ian: this

1123
00:26:14,395 --> 00:26:14,605
one,

1124
00:26:14,725 --> 00:26:14,965
Yeah.

1125
00:26:15,055 --> 00:26:16,045
Um, well,

1126
00:26:16,056 --> 00:26:16,266
Helen: let's

1127
00:26:16,266 --> 00:26:16,776
say the next

1128
00:26:16,776 --> 00:26:17,316
crisis

1129
00:26:17,316 --> 00:26:17,891
is in the arts.

1130
00:26:18,265 --> 00:26:18,355
Ian: Sure.

1131
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:20,755
Andy: It's a, unfortunately the

1132
00:26:20,766 --> 00:26:22,176
Helen: arts we're always in crisis.

1133
00:26:22,236 --> 00:26:22,476
There's

1134
00:26:22,585 --> 00:26:23,245
Andy: solution there.

1135
00:26:23,695 --> 00:26:23,905
Um,

1136
00:26:23,946 --> 00:26:24,786
Helen: can I say one more quick thing

1137
00:26:25,045 --> 00:26:25,570
Andy: energy?

1138
00:26:25,825 --> 00:26:26,245
Just that

1139
00:26:26,376 --> 00:26:28,086
Helen: no matter who
you talk to, all over,

1140
00:26:28,585 --> 00:26:29,155
Andy: everyone's

1141
00:26:29,155 --> 00:26:29,755
solution is the

1142
00:26:29,766 --> 00:26:30,936
Helen: same, which is lower

1143
00:26:30,985 --> 00:26:31,315
Andy: price of

1144
00:26:31,315 --> 00:26:32,005
electricity

1145
00:26:32,466 --> 00:26:32,796
Helen: for people who

1146
00:26:32,965 --> 00:26:33,355
Andy: want bills

1147
00:26:33,355 --> 00:26:33,865
to be lower,

1148
00:26:34,446 --> 00:26:35,166
Helen: uh, like the

1149
00:26:35,545 --> 00:26:36,175
Andy: or the conservative.

1150
00:26:36,846 --> 00:26:38,166
Helen: Removing levies

1151
00:26:38,530 --> 00:26:39,670
Andy: electricity bills

1152
00:26:39,906 --> 00:26:41,946
Helen: and maybe putting them into
general taxation, maybe it's scraping,

1153
00:26:41,950 --> 00:26:42,340
Andy: whatever.

1154
00:26:42,550 --> 00:26:43,750
They have different proposals,

1155
00:26:44,076 --> 00:26:44,736
Helen: but that cheapens

1156
00:26:44,980 --> 00:26:47,440
Andy: bills for people who
actually want the transition to

1157
00:26:47,466 --> 00:26:47,796
Helen: happen.

1158
00:26:47,796 --> 00:26:48,006
When I

1159
00:26:48,220 --> 00:26:48,670
Andy: myself in

1160
00:26:48,670 --> 00:26:49,180
that camp,

1161
00:26:49,690 --> 00:26:50,020
that

1162
00:26:50,376 --> 00:26:52,596
Helen: making the electricity
price lower encourages people

1163
00:26:52,596 --> 00:26:53,736
to adopt these solutions,

1164
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:54,910
Andy: know, it's, and

1165
00:26:55,236 --> 00:26:56,946
Helen: we've already largely made the, the

1166
00:26:57,460 --> 00:26:58,360
Andy: grid green, but

1167
00:26:58,386 --> 00:26:58,896
Helen: there's so

1168
00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:59,830
Andy: elsewhere.

1169
00:27:00,456 --> 00:27:02,106
Helen: Mostly the cars we drive and how

1170
00:27:02,170 --> 00:27:04,090
Andy: heat our homes, that is remaining to

1171
00:27:04,116 --> 00:27:04,506
Helen: be greened.

1172
00:27:04,596 --> 00:27:04,746
It

1173
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:05,260
is, it

1174
00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:05,440
is

1175
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:06,010
security.

1176
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,416
I knew I, We start off with the wrong one.

1177
00:27:07,416 --> 00:27:08,080
I knew we'd up

1178
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:08,140
at

1179
00:27:08,140 --> 00:27:08,470
cross

1180
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:08,860
pavement

1181
00:27:08,860 --> 00:27:09,220
charging

1182
00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:09,490
Andy: system.

1183
00:27:09,581 --> 00:27:10,626
Helen: No, no, no, Heat.

1184
00:27:10,626 --> 00:27:10,776
Heat

1185
00:27:10,776 --> 00:27:11,556
pumps and electric cars

1186
00:27:11,556 --> 00:27:12,396
are the electric.

1187
00:27:12,876 --> 00:27:13,146
They are

1188
00:27:13,146 --> 00:27:13,896
stability.

1189
00:27:13,896 --> 00:27:14,106
They are,

1190
00:27:14,766 --> 00:27:15,366
they're basically

1191
00:27:15,366 --> 00:27:16,416
Did I follow security?

1192
00:27:16,536 --> 00:27:17,061
You were saying

1193
00:27:17,095 --> 00:27:20,245
Ian: that essentially the
populous view of get, get the

1194
00:27:20,256 --> 00:27:21,036
Helen: bills down 'cause we

1195
00:27:21,036 --> 00:27:21,306
want to

1196
00:27:21,475 --> 00:27:24,415
Ian: less is actually a positive green,

1197
00:27:25,060 --> 00:27:25,750
Helen: incitement.

1198
00:27:26,029 --> 00:27:28,939
I think getting the bills
down means more people will

1199
00:27:29,033 --> 00:27:30,563
Andy: encouraged to adopt these solutions.

1200
00:27:30,589 --> 00:27:30,739
Helen: Yep.

1201
00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:33,529
I think reform of the conservatives have
said various things like, we're gonna

1202
00:27:33,529 --> 00:27:35,269
scrap net zero targets, we're going to

1203
00:27:35,273 --> 00:27:36,863
Andy: scrap heat pump incentives.

1204
00:27:36,863 --> 00:27:36,953
I

1205
00:27:37,193 --> 00:27:37,643
it would not be

1206
00:27:37,774 --> 00:27:38,794
Helen: good for the climate in

1207
00:27:38,813 --> 00:27:39,113
Andy: long run

1208
00:27:39,113 --> 00:27:39,923
or emissions,

1209
00:27:40,264 --> 00:27:41,854
Helen: but getting the
electricity price down seems

1210
00:27:41,873 --> 00:27:41,963
Andy: be

1211
00:27:41,963 --> 00:27:43,313
the thing everyone can agree on.

1212
00:27:43,433 --> 00:27:46,193
Because you make these solutions even

1213
00:27:46,234 --> 00:27:47,434
Helen: more economically

1214
00:27:47,434 --> 00:27:48,034
compelling,

1215
00:27:48,154 --> 00:27:48,604
more people

1216
00:27:48,604 --> 00:27:48,724
will

1217
00:27:48,724 --> 00:27:48,994
adopt

1218
00:27:48,994 --> 00:27:51,226
it, You know, car, if you can
fill up an electric car for seven

1219
00:27:51,226 --> 00:27:52,966
quid and your, your diesel's just

1220
00:27:53,105 --> 00:27:54,095
Andy: up to a hundred quid.

1221
00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:54,830
It

1222
00:27:54,856 --> 00:27:55,996
Helen: becomes, it becomes

1223
00:27:55,996 --> 00:27:56,206
more

1224
00:27:56,796 --> 00:27:57,546
So yeah,

1225
00:27:57,730 --> 00:27:57,910
Andy: that

1226
00:27:57,910 --> 00:27:58,150
seems

1227
00:27:58,150 --> 00:27:58,600
to be

1228
00:27:59,196 --> 00:27:59,826
Helen: the thing we should

1229
00:27:59,826 --> 00:28:00,036
bear

1230
00:28:00,036 --> 00:28:00,096
in

1231
00:28:00,096 --> 00:28:00,246
mind

1232
00:28:00,246 --> 00:28:00,486
for next

1233
00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:00,730
Andy: this

1234
00:28:00,730 --> 00:28:01,450
happens, which

1235
00:28:02,076 --> 00:28:02,316
Helen: will be

1236
00:28:02,316 --> 00:28:02,376
in

1237
00:28:02,376 --> 00:28:02,556
about

1238
00:28:02,556 --> 00:28:02,706
two

1239
00:28:02,706 --> 00:28:03,378
years, apparently.

1240
00:28:03,396 --> 00:28:03,516
Yeah.

1241
00:28:07,533 --> 00:28:09,123
so now we come to

1242
00:28:09,367 --> 00:28:10,657
Andy: the exciting world

1243
00:28:10,687 --> 00:28:11,696
of finance.

1244
00:28:11,737 --> 00:28:12,547
Richard, you

1245
00:28:12,603 --> 00:28:14,073
Helen: write the in the money column.

1246
00:28:14,073 --> 00:28:14,673
And there

1247
00:28:14,707 --> 00:28:15,277
Andy: been a few

1248
00:28:15,303 --> 00:28:17,103
Helen: stories recently,
both in your column

1249
00:28:17,167 --> 00:28:18,037
Andy: across, across,

1250
00:28:18,063 --> 00:28:20,043
Helen: the rest of the press about, um,

1251
00:28:20,253 --> 00:28:20,613
a little

1252
00:28:21,007 --> 00:28:21,277
Andy: party

1253
00:28:21,333 --> 00:28:22,173
Helen: called reform

1254
00:28:22,597 --> 00:28:23,617
Andy: and the

1255
00:28:23,823 --> 00:28:24,603
Helen: very innovative

1256
00:28:24,603 --> 00:28:25,143
things that they're

1257
00:28:25,387 --> 00:28:27,197
Andy: with money, Things
like them receiving

1258
00:28:27,223 --> 00:28:27,763
Helen: donations in

1259
00:28:27,763 --> 00:28:28,153
the form of

1260
00:28:28,153 --> 00:28:28,843
crypto.

1261
00:28:29,598 --> 00:28:30,258
it seems to be,

1262
00:28:30,258 --> 00:28:30,378
it

1263
00:28:30,378 --> 00:28:30,858
seems to be a

1264
00:28:31,147 --> 00:28:32,377
Richard: vibrant area.

1265
00:28:32,868 --> 00:28:33,108
Helen: And

1266
00:28:33,113 --> 00:28:33,658
um, they're at the

1267
00:28:33,682 --> 00:28:34,972
Andy: at the cutting edge of this.

1268
00:28:35,062 --> 00:28:35,857
Yeah, definitely.

1269
00:28:36,331 --> 00:28:36,577
Richard: Um,

1270
00:28:36,697 --> 00:28:36,787
can

1271
00:28:36,787 --> 00:28:36,847
you

1272
00:28:36,847 --> 00:28:37,057
tell us

1273
00:28:37,128 --> 00:28:37,518
Helen: what what

1274
00:28:37,642 --> 00:28:38,092
Andy: gives

1275
00:28:38,247 --> 00:28:38,497
Richard: Yeah.

1276
00:28:38,497 --> 00:28:38,707
Well,

1277
00:28:38,748 --> 00:28:38,958
Helen: they've

1278
00:28:38,958 --> 00:28:39,258
said

1279
00:28:39,258 --> 00:28:39,798
they, well, who

1280
00:28:39,882 --> 00:28:40,122
Richard: gives?

1281
00:28:40,582 --> 00:28:40,802
Yes.

1282
00:28:41,797 --> 00:28:42,577
Well, that's the point.

1283
00:28:42,577 --> 00:28:43,117
We can't,

1284
00:28:43,638 --> 00:28:43,878
Helen: right.

1285
00:28:43,878 --> 00:28:44,358
Um, or

1286
00:28:44,437 --> 00:28:45,146
Richard: not sure.

1287
00:28:45,437 --> 00:28:48,047
Helen: they've said that,
um, they've started taking

1288
00:28:48,156 --> 00:28:49,566
Richard: crypto donations,

1289
00:28:49,697 --> 00:28:51,617
Helen: but none are actually recorded

1290
00:28:51,636 --> 00:28:51,876
Richard: yet.

1291
00:28:52,790 --> 00:28:55,220
If they are, they're
getting washed through the

1292
00:28:55,261 --> 00:28:56,551
Helen: crypto system and

1293
00:28:56,551 --> 00:28:57,691
turned into real money.

1294
00:28:58,867 --> 00:28:58,987
and

1295
00:28:59,127 --> 00:29:00,722
Richard: process, doesn't

1296
00:29:00,762 --> 00:29:00,942
Helen: give you

1297
00:29:01,142 --> 00:29:01,982
Richard: great confidence

1298
00:29:02,022 --> 00:29:03,702
Helen: in where the money originally

1299
00:29:03,962 --> 00:29:04,262
Richard: from

1300
00:29:04,802 --> 00:29:05,402
Helen: now there's no,

1301
00:29:05,572 --> 00:29:06,532
Richard: we haven't got a case

1302
00:29:06,602 --> 00:29:07,802
Helen: where we can say, ah,

1303
00:29:07,942 --> 00:29:09,172
Richard: money you said came from

1304
00:29:09,662 --> 00:29:10,562
Helen: This direct actually

1305
00:29:10,582 --> 00:29:15,202
Richard: came from Mrs. Y, but
that's what it potentially allows you

1306
00:29:15,212 --> 00:29:15,542
Helen: to do.

1307
00:29:15,572 --> 00:29:16,532
And that's why there

1308
00:29:16,582 --> 00:29:18,922
Richard: people arguing for banning crypto

1309
00:29:18,932 --> 00:29:19,802
Helen: donations

1310
00:29:19,942 --> 00:29:20,692
Richard: or donations

1311
00:29:20,732 --> 00:29:20,882
Helen: that

1312
00:29:20,882 --> 00:29:21,422
originate

1313
00:29:22,022 --> 00:29:22,232
with

1314
00:29:22,232 --> 00:29:22,682
crypto.

1315
00:29:22,902 --> 00:29:23,592
government shows no

1316
00:29:23,941 --> 00:29:24,571
Richard: of doing that.

1317
00:29:24,781 --> 00:29:25,171
It's,

1318
00:29:25,422 --> 00:29:27,102
Helen: it's quite procr as well.

1319
00:29:27,489 --> 00:29:29,349
God, I thought we weren't so procr.

1320
00:29:29,349 --> 00:29:29,829
I mean, obviously

1321
00:29:29,829 --> 00:29:29,949
the,

1322
00:29:30,065 --> 00:29:30,545
the Trump

1323
00:29:30,545 --> 00:29:30,875
family

1324
00:29:30,875 --> 00:29:31,715
is massively

1325
00:29:31,745 --> 00:29:32,555
procr.

1326
00:29:32,645 --> 00:29:34,059
Um, they, you

1327
00:29:34,059 --> 00:29:35,885
know, had this big stake in World Liberty

1328
00:29:36,309 --> 00:29:38,439
They sold the Qatar just
before Inauguration Day.

1329
00:29:38,795 --> 00:29:43,269
Donald Trump Junior Is every shady crypto
conference in the Middle Well, actually

1330
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:45,125
that's probably really neck of their

1331
00:29:45,125 --> 00:29:48,099
business model shady looking crypto
conferences in the Middle East, but

1332
00:29:48,219 --> 00:29:49,655
I, I, I I sort of thought we were

1333
00:29:49,655 --> 00:29:53,705
maintaining what I'd like to think of
as a kind slightly more useful reserve.

1334
00:29:53,705 --> 00:29:54,815
But that not true?

1335
00:29:54,815 --> 00:29:55,265
Britain is,

1336
00:29:55,299 --> 00:29:55,449
Richard: is

1337
00:29:55,449 --> 00:29:56,769
Gungho crypto as well?

1338
00:29:57,129 --> 00:29:57,579
Well, we,

1339
00:29:57,665 --> 00:29:59,765
Helen: we are saying
that we want to regulate

1340
00:29:59,765 --> 00:30:00,395
it properly

1341
00:30:00,665 --> 00:30:00,755
mm-hmm.

1342
00:30:00,755 --> 00:30:00,845
in

1343
00:30:00,845 --> 00:30:01,145
order

1344
00:30:01,299 --> 00:30:03,094
Richard: have a, you

1345
00:30:03,094 --> 00:30:03,224
know, a

1346
00:30:03,275 --> 00:30:03,545
Helen: you know,

1347
00:30:03,549 --> 00:30:06,009
Richard: healthy,
responsible crypto industry.

1348
00:30:06,095 --> 00:30:06,605
Helen: the question is

1349
00:30:06,849 --> 00:30:08,319
Richard: you know, there
really is such a thing,

1350
00:30:09,005 --> 00:30:09,095
Helen: you

1351
00:30:09,095 --> 00:30:09,639
know, if you look

1352
00:30:09,695 --> 00:30:10,655
at who uses this

1353
00:30:10,659 --> 00:30:11,109
Richard: stuff

1354
00:30:11,651 --> 00:30:12,161
Helen: for real

1355
00:30:12,766 --> 00:30:13,726
Richard: as opposed to just

1356
00:30:13,811 --> 00:30:14,051
Helen: kind of

1357
00:30:14,386 --> 00:30:15,916
Richard: it and hoping
it goes up in value.

1358
00:30:16,507 --> 00:30:20,107
pornography, uh, you
know, drugs, anything,

1359
00:30:20,613 --> 00:30:20,853
Helen: uh,

1360
00:30:21,127 --> 00:30:21,787
Richard: laundering.

1361
00:30:22,108 --> 00:30:22,348
it's,

1362
00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:23,019
Helen: hard to find.

1363
00:30:23,019 --> 00:30:24,459
And you know, you even
find, it, we wrote a

1364
00:30:24,928 --> 00:30:28,318
Richard: uh, a couple of issues
ago about the guy who runs the

1365
00:30:28,809 --> 00:30:29,259
Helen: payment

1366
00:30:29,878 --> 00:30:31,528
Richard: company that Reform are using,

1367
00:30:31,989 --> 00:30:32,709
Helen: and he was at

1368
00:30:32,728 --> 00:30:33,688
Richard: conference saying,

1369
00:30:33,939 --> 00:30:35,259
Helen: oh, you know, we, you know, we've

1370
00:30:35,428 --> 00:30:38,848
Richard: pornography covered, we've got,
um, you know, we've got the drugs covered.

1371
00:30:39,268 --> 00:30:39,718
Um,

1372
00:30:39,969 --> 00:30:40,539
Helen: we, we are looking

1373
00:30:40,648 --> 00:30:43,948
Richard: some decent purposes to,
for people to use our product.

1374
00:30:44,128 --> 00:30:45,568
You know, they just haven't really got it.

1375
00:30:45,669 --> 00:30:46,539
Helen: is if you, if you

1376
00:30:46,708 --> 00:30:47,788
Richard: do something legitimate with

1377
00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:48,099
Helen: money,

1378
00:30:48,099 --> 00:30:48,249
why

1379
00:30:48,249 --> 00:30:48,399
don't

1380
00:30:48,403 --> 00:30:48,463
Andy: you

1381
00:30:48,534 --> 00:30:48,688
Helen: just

1382
00:30:48,688 --> 00:30:48,928
use

1383
00:30:48,928 --> 00:30:49,288
ordinary

1384
00:30:49,288 --> 00:30:49,828
money, Right?

1385
00:30:49,833 --> 00:30:49,893
You

1386
00:30:49,973 --> 00:30:50,573
use a bank

1387
00:30:50,673 --> 00:30:52,084
as as you like to call them, and you get

1388
00:30:52,084 --> 00:30:52,659
that, you get

1389
00:30:52,659 --> 00:30:53,998
deposit insurance, right?

1390
00:30:53,998 --> 00:30:54,718
As a consumer,

1391
00:30:54,718 --> 00:30:55,539
you get up to something like

1392
00:30:55,543 --> 00:30:56,319
85,000

1393
00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:56,439
pounds.

1394
00:30:56,458 --> 00:30:56,998
you have in a bank

1395
00:30:56,998 --> 00:30:57,388
account,

1396
00:30:57,688 --> 00:30:58,629
The, the, like the

1397
00:30:58,629 --> 00:31:00,688
government will back if the bank goes

1398
00:31:00,718 --> 00:31:00,988
Richard: under,

1399
00:31:01,198 --> 00:31:01,408
Yeah.

1400
00:31:01,408 --> 00:31:01,528
If you

1401
00:31:01,528 --> 00:31:01,798
lose

1402
00:31:01,798 --> 00:31:01,888
the

1403
00:31:01,888 --> 00:31:02,188
keys

1404
00:31:02,188 --> 00:31:02,278
to

1405
00:31:02,278 --> 00:31:02,398
your,

1406
00:31:02,398 --> 00:31:02,608
like

1407
00:31:02,608 --> 00:31:03,718
Helen: your crypto wallet

1408
00:31:03,819 --> 00:31:04,839
or someone steals it.

1409
00:31:05,289 --> 00:31:06,778
no one is coming to you.

1410
00:31:06,778 --> 00:31:07,618
Like, I just,

1411
00:31:07,749 --> 00:31:07,989
I'm

1412
00:31:08,158 --> 00:31:09,713
Richard: extreme caution is how I,

1413
00:31:09,999 --> 00:31:10,479
Helen: word crypto.

1414
00:31:10,539 --> 00:31:11,349
No, I mean, there was

1415
00:31:11,518 --> 00:31:12,268
Richard: famous case,

1416
00:31:12,353 --> 00:31:12,573
Helen: guy

1417
00:31:12,663 --> 00:31:13,013
who's

1418
00:31:13,738 --> 00:31:14,278
Richard: laptop

1419
00:31:14,324 --> 00:31:14,764
Helen: his laptop in the,

1420
00:31:14,878 --> 00:31:17,963
Richard: out and he, he, You know,
the Bitcoin or whatever had gone up in

1421
00:31:18,019 --> 00:31:18,684
Helen: value so much.

1422
00:31:18,773 --> 00:31:20,183
Richard: tried to buy the whole,

1423
00:31:20,884 --> 00:31:22,559
Helen: Yeah, it was a
council waste disposal dump.

1424
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:22,639
Yeah.

1425
00:31:22,639 --> 00:31:24,814
Dump from the council,
said, I'll give you millions

1426
00:31:24,893 --> 00:31:25,613
Richard: this so

1427
00:31:25,846 --> 00:31:26,956
Helen: but Nitro forage can't

1428
00:31:26,956 --> 00:31:27,166
use

1429
00:31:27,515 --> 00:31:28,085
banks, can't

1430
00:31:28,085 --> 00:31:28,145
he?

1431
00:31:28,940 --> 00:31:29,120
Andy: Well, I,

1432
00:31:29,261 --> 00:31:30,101
Helen: I, Yeah,

1433
00:31:30,406 --> 00:31:30,526
he

1434
00:31:30,526 --> 00:31:32,105
got he, he was de he by Coutts.

1435
00:31:32,105 --> 00:31:34,636
But I, I think that was an interesting
one that, that, I'm not saying

1436
00:31:34,636 --> 00:31:37,936
he, he it, but it came at a very
useful time for him to use it as a,

1437
00:31:38,086 --> 00:31:38,555
and is

1438
00:31:38,555 --> 00:31:39,406
why Oh,

1439
00:31:39,406 --> 00:31:39,736
right.

1440
00:31:39,736 --> 00:31:40,906
You know, because he was also very into

1441
00:31:40,906 --> 00:31:41,326
gold.

1442
00:31:41,326 --> 00:31:41,506
Right.

1443
00:31:41,506 --> 00:31:43,325
Like he gold through his newsletter.

1444
00:31:43,625 --> 00:31:45,515
So the part of the Yeah.

1445
00:31:45,515 --> 00:31:45,815
Right.

1446
00:31:45,905 --> 00:31:49,606
The part of the political
that he's appealing to is very

1447
00:31:49,606 --> 00:31:50,506
low trust

1448
00:31:50,525 --> 00:31:51,665
in institutions.

1449
00:31:51,826 --> 00:31:52,036
Yeah.

1450
00:31:52,126 --> 00:31:55,996
And then, so the message to sell crypto
has always been don't trust the banks.

1451
00:31:56,345 --> 00:31:56,885
You know, have your

1452
00:31:56,885 --> 00:31:58,606
crypto keep, them like it's, it's money

1453
00:31:58,760 --> 00:31:59,060
Andy: can't be

1454
00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:00,380
regulated, can't be overseen.

1455
00:32:00,526 --> 00:32:01,036
Helen: I have to say

1456
00:32:01,036 --> 00:32:01,846
turning, I was

1457
00:32:01,850 --> 00:32:02,480
Andy: de banked by

1458
00:32:02,506 --> 00:32:05,167
Helen: Kouts into, pitch to people to

1459
00:32:05,167 --> 00:32:05,347
not

1460
00:32:05,347 --> 00:32:05,587
trust

1461
00:32:06,161 --> 00:32:06,641
Andy: is quite.

1462
00:32:06,656 --> 00:32:06,746
Fuck.

1463
00:32:07,526 --> 00:32:07,706
It's

1464
00:32:07,747 --> 00:32:08,647
Helen: quite good politics,

1465
00:32:08,647 --> 00:32:08,887
I've gotta

1466
00:32:08,887 --> 00:32:09,097
say.

1467
00:32:09,097 --> 00:32:09,221
It's

1468
00:32:09,247 --> 00:32:09,457
quite

1469
00:32:09,457 --> 00:32:09,817
cleverly

1470
00:32:09,817 --> 00:32:10,117
done.

1471
00:32:10,285 --> 00:32:10,945
Richard: and he's certainly

1472
00:32:10,986 --> 00:32:11,406
Helen: going

1473
00:32:11,586 --> 00:32:13,146
going strong on both gold

1474
00:32:13,195 --> 00:32:13,975
Richard: and crypto.

1475
00:32:14,146 --> 00:32:14,506
he's got

1476
00:32:14,547 --> 00:32:15,715
Helen: this big, gig with the

1477
00:32:15,715 --> 00:32:16,465
gold company,

1478
00:32:16,634 --> 00:32:18,314
Richard: direct bullion company

1479
00:32:18,895 --> 00:32:21,115
Helen: who are paying him, you
know, hundreds of thousands

1480
00:32:21,115 --> 00:32:21,175
of

1481
00:32:21,175 --> 00:32:21,565
pounds.

1482
00:32:22,237 --> 00:32:23,197
Richard: not that he's necessarily

1483
00:32:23,238 --> 00:32:25,428
Helen: used that money, but
he's put a very similar amount

1484
00:32:25,477 --> 00:32:25,837
Richard: money

1485
00:32:25,998 --> 00:32:26,688
Helen: into,

1486
00:32:26,972 --> 00:32:29,732
Richard: A crypto company whose largest

1487
00:32:29,773 --> 00:32:30,973
Helen: shareholder is the guy

1488
00:32:31,112 --> 00:32:33,902
Richard: paid him all that
money for the, for endorsing

1489
00:32:33,913 --> 00:32:34,183
Helen: gold.

1490
00:32:34,462 --> 00:32:35,677
Andy: This is this separate to

1491
00:32:36,727 --> 00:32:37,057
Richard: quasi

1492
00:32:37,057 --> 00:32:37,657
Quaye?

1493
00:32:37,717 --> 00:32:37,987
Well, the,

1494
00:32:38,208 --> 00:32:38,448
Helen: no

1495
00:32:38,448 --> 00:32:38,838
it's not.

1496
00:32:38,838 --> 00:32:38,988
This

1497
00:32:39,247 --> 00:32:39,907
Andy: is the quasi

1498
00:32:40,113 --> 00:32:40,193
Helen: Quaye

1499
00:32:41,684 --> 00:32:43,037
Ian: Bitcoin Company, which is

1500
00:32:43,037 --> 00:32:43,277
Discre.

1501
00:32:43,377 --> 00:32:43,597
Is

1502
00:32:43,638 --> 00:32:44,178
Helen: Is it called that?

1503
00:32:44,238 --> 00:32:44,538
Because I

1504
00:32:44,652 --> 00:32:44,772
Richard: would

1505
00:32:44,772 --> 00:32:45,052
suggest

1506
00:32:45,052 --> 00:32:45,577
that's not

1507
00:32:45,618 --> 00:32:45,678
Helen: a

1508
00:32:45,678 --> 00:32:45,888
very

1509
00:32:45,888 --> 00:32:46,038
good

1510
00:32:46,038 --> 00:32:46,428
name

1511
00:32:46,878 --> 00:32:47,628
To market.

1512
00:32:47,962 --> 00:32:48,142
Why

1513
00:32:48,142 --> 00:32:48,502
Is it not

1514
00:32:48,502 --> 00:32:48,772
called

1515
00:32:48,877 --> 00:32:48,967
Richard: Paul?

1516
00:32:49,297 --> 00:32:50,317
It's, it's,

1517
00:32:50,518 --> 00:32:50,638
Helen: crazy.

1518
00:32:50,708 --> 00:32:55,175
it's allied with the, with the trust,
uh, investment management, uh, company.

1519
00:32:55,779 --> 00:32:56,499
Richard: Uh, no.

1520
00:32:56,499 --> 00:32:57,565
It's CROs

1521
00:32:57,621 --> 00:32:57,831
Helen: car.

1522
00:32:58,221 --> 00:32:58,371
and

1523
00:32:58,435 --> 00:32:58,675
Richard: chap

1524
00:32:58,731 --> 00:33:01,491
Helen: Paul with us, have
joined up to create this company

1525
00:33:01,495 --> 00:33:04,015
Richard: called Stack Bitcoin, which is a

1526
00:33:04,851 --> 00:33:05,121
Helen: bitcoin

1527
00:33:05,695 --> 00:33:06,325
Richard: company,

1528
00:33:06,676 --> 00:33:07,276
Helen: which means

1529
00:33:07,355 --> 00:33:07,595
Ian: they'll

1530
00:33:07,595 --> 00:33:07,835
look

1531
00:33:07,835 --> 00:33:08,165
after

1532
00:33:08,165 --> 00:33:08,465
your

1533
00:33:08,866 --> 00:33:08,956
Helen: Bitcoin.

1534
00:33:09,526 --> 00:33:09,676
but

1535
00:33:09,770 --> 00:33:10,040
Richard: nothing

1536
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:10,310
to do

1537
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:10,550
with

1538
00:33:10,550 --> 00:33:10,560
the

1539
00:33:10,655 --> 00:33:10,775
treasury.

1540
00:33:11,795 --> 00:33:11,945
Ian: No,

1541
00:33:13,265 --> 00:33:14,195
Richard: don't, just checking.

1542
00:33:14,595 --> 00:33:14,975
Andy: No, aren't

1543
00:33:14,986 --> 00:33:17,176
Helen: know the debt quite
arrived by, Aren't there rules

1544
00:33:17,176 --> 00:33:18,256
about what you, there are rules

1545
00:33:18,410 --> 00:33:19,910
Andy: you can't just
say, this is the King's

1546
00:33:20,056 --> 00:33:20,836
Helen: crypto company

1547
00:33:20,885 --> 00:33:21,245
Richard: whatever.

1548
00:33:21,245 --> 00:33:21,845
You're allowed

1549
00:33:21,845 --> 00:33:21,905
to

1550
00:33:21,946 --> 00:33:22,156
Helen: stick

1551
00:33:22,156 --> 00:33:22,606
treasury

1552
00:33:22,715 --> 00:33:22,835
Richard: it.

1553
00:33:22,925 --> 00:33:23,225
You can

1554
00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:23,450
Andy: use

1555
00:33:23,450 --> 00:33:23,540
the

1556
00:33:23,765 --> 00:33:24,335
Richard: treasury.

1557
00:33:24,340 --> 00:33:24,440
Yeah.

1558
00:33:24,605 --> 00:33:24,815
Yeah.

1559
00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:24,946
Helen: I

1560
00:33:24,946 --> 00:33:25,156
mean,

1561
00:33:25,325 --> 00:33:26,675
Richard: up questionable whether

1562
00:33:26,806 --> 00:33:27,613
Helen: Party Quaye

1563
00:33:27,616 --> 00:33:27,826
should

1564
00:33:27,826 --> 00:33:28,036
ever

1565
00:33:28,036 --> 00:33:28,306
use

1566
00:33:28,306 --> 00:33:28,513
the word

1567
00:33:28,576 --> 00:33:28,996
treasury

1568
00:33:28,996 --> 00:33:29,116
again,

1569
00:33:29,495 --> 00:33:30,545
Richard: but, um, I

1570
00:33:30,586 --> 00:33:30,616
Helen: I

1571
00:33:30,616 --> 00:33:30,826
think

1572
00:33:30,826 --> 00:33:30,976
that's

1573
00:33:30,976 --> 00:33:31,066
a

1574
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:31,480
Richard: a good

1575
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:31,720
question.

1576
00:33:32,009 --> 00:33:33,329
Helen: so Ferra gets the money

1577
00:33:33,349 --> 00:33:34,549
Richard: from the gold company.

1578
00:33:35,249 --> 00:33:36,509
Helen: He puts it into,

1579
00:33:36,829 --> 00:33:38,179
Richard: the crypto company that

1580
00:33:38,205 --> 00:33:39,390
Helen: the gold guy involved

1581
00:33:39,469 --> 00:33:40,159
Richard: and this crypto

1582
00:33:40,170 --> 00:33:43,310
Helen: company shares
leaps up, So it was all,

1583
00:33:43,695 --> 00:33:43,785
you

1584
00:33:43,785 --> 00:33:43,905
know,

1585
00:33:43,905 --> 00:33:44,715
very convenient.

1586
00:33:44,824 --> 00:33:45,964
Andy: That's what I'm
really interested in,

1587
00:33:45,964 --> 00:33:48,874
because exactly as you
say, when he announced,

1588
00:33:48,874 --> 00:33:48,964
I

1589
00:33:49,005 --> 00:33:49,125
Helen: think

1590
00:33:49,125 --> 00:33:49,185
it

1591
00:33:49,185 --> 00:33:49,275
was

1592
00:33:49,275 --> 00:33:51,105
215,000 pounds he'd invested in

1593
00:33:51,105 --> 00:33:51,525
this

1594
00:33:51,724 --> 00:33:52,324
Andy: stack

1595
00:33:52,534 --> 00:33:53,134
company.

1596
00:33:53,431 --> 00:33:54,369
Helen: the value then leaps.

1597
00:33:54,374 --> 00:33:54,764
Andy: he's

1598
00:33:54,783 --> 00:33:55,882
got various options, which

1599
00:33:55,928 --> 00:33:58,053
Helen: mean that if the value of
this company goes above a certain

1600
00:33:58,282 --> 00:33:59,812
Andy: he will make a huge amount of money.

1601
00:34:00,303 --> 00:34:02,043
Helen: But obviously he's
using his status as a

1602
00:34:02,332 --> 00:34:03,592
Andy: figure to

1603
00:34:04,083 --> 00:34:05,403
Helen: drive up the value of the coin.

1604
00:34:05,403 --> 00:34:05,463
I

1605
00:34:05,463 --> 00:34:05,613
mean

1606
00:34:05,722 --> 00:34:06,292
Andy: very,

1607
00:34:07,162 --> 00:34:07,492
this

1608
00:34:07,503 --> 00:34:07,593
Helen: is

1609
00:34:07,642 --> 00:34:08,272
Ian: thing about crypto.

1610
00:34:08,583 --> 00:34:08,973
Helen: You're looking

1611
00:34:09,052 --> 00:34:09,112
Ian: an

1612
00:34:09,112 --> 00:34:09,802
adjective.

1613
00:34:09,802 --> 00:34:09,952
And

1614
00:34:10,053 --> 00:34:10,803
Helen: and Richard

1615
00:34:10,803 --> 00:34:10,893
has

1616
00:34:11,122 --> 00:34:12,346
Ian: said convenient.

1617
00:34:12,423 --> 00:34:12,813
Helen: Sorry.

1618
00:34:12,933 --> 00:34:13,203
So if

1619
00:34:13,203 --> 00:34:13,473
you don't

1620
00:34:13,473 --> 00:34:13,653
want

1621
00:34:13,653 --> 00:34:13,713
the

1622
00:34:13,862 --> 00:34:14,013
lawyers

1623
00:34:14,092 --> 00:34:14,302
Andy: have to

1624
00:34:14,302 --> 00:34:14,572
Ian: spend

1625
00:34:14,572 --> 00:34:14,632
the

1626
00:34:14,632 --> 00:34:14,819
next

1627
00:34:14,973 --> 00:34:15,693
Helen: 35

1628
00:34:15,693 --> 00:34:16,083
minutes

1629
00:34:16,083 --> 00:34:17,043
convenience, Can we just

1630
00:34:17,043 --> 00:34:17,433
say

1631
00:34:17,583 --> 00:34:18,393
convenient?

1632
00:34:18,393 --> 00:34:18,693
Yeah.

1633
00:34:18,990 --> 00:34:19,330
Andy: As in

1634
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:20,610
Helen: As in public convenience.

1635
00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:22,630
that's the kind of point of crypto

1636
00:34:22,630 --> 00:34:22,960
though, right?

1637
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,570
Is in respects, it's trading on

1638
00:34:24,570 --> 00:34:25,380
reputation

1639
00:34:25,420 --> 00:34:26,670
and trading speculation.

1640
00:34:26,670 --> 00:34:29,380
Nobody buys crypto really as a safe haven.

1641
00:34:29,460 --> 00:34:29,760
buy it

1642
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:30,030
because they

1643
00:34:30,030 --> 00:34:30,570
think they're going to

1644
00:34:30,570 --> 00:34:31,050
the moon.

1645
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:31,890
And

1646
00:34:31,935 --> 00:34:32,235
Andy: like

1647
00:34:32,235 --> 00:34:32,475
the, thing that

1648
00:34:33,330 --> 00:34:35,190
Helen: the thing that annoys
people, I wish I wish they would.

1649
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,880
Well, no, but The thing that annoys people

1650
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,720
like me, I I made a podcast about
this once, was the fact that it

1651
00:34:39,720 --> 00:34:42,820
has delivered a huge amount of
returns for pe like, for everybody

1652
00:34:42,820 --> 00:34:43,330
who was

1653
00:34:43,450 --> 00:34:44,770
the early investors.

1654
00:34:45,220 --> 00:34:48,250
Uh, I mean, and there's a weird analogy,
analogy to some of the other stuff,

1655
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:48,430
like

1656
00:34:48,690 --> 00:34:50,760
when they took the post
office public and they

1657
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,480
sold off the early things and

1658
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:53,710
then immediate it spiked up.

1659
00:34:53,710 --> 00:34:54,997
So everybody who got in the early

1660
00:34:55,635 --> 00:34:55,725
Richard: Yeah.

1661
00:34:56,025 --> 00:34:56,475
made

1662
00:34:56,475 --> 00:34:57,339
absolute bank.

1663
00:34:57,580 --> 00:34:58,240
Helen: Well, it's like any

1664
00:34:58,425 --> 00:34:59,399
Richard: bubble, yes.

1665
00:34:59,399 --> 00:35:00,119
A lot of people make

1666
00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:00,629
money on it,

1667
00:35:00,749 --> 00:35:01,495
Helen: and a lot of people

1668
00:35:01,679 --> 00:35:02,729
Richard: money knowing

1669
00:35:02,785 --> 00:35:04,525
Helen: that it's a bubble,
knowing that there's

1670
00:35:04,525 --> 00:35:04,675
no

1671
00:35:05,219 --> 00:35:05,519
Richard: to it.

1672
00:35:05,909 --> 00:35:06,059
Yeah.

1673
00:35:06,059 --> 00:35:06,179
But

1674
00:35:06,235 --> 00:35:06,385
Helen: they

1675
00:35:06,415 --> 00:35:06,775
just

1676
00:35:07,019 --> 00:35:08,099
Richard: hope they get out

1677
00:35:08,125 --> 00:35:09,025
Helen: before they think

1678
00:35:09,025 --> 00:35:09,085
the

1679
00:35:09,085 --> 00:35:09,726
other people, the

1680
00:35:09,749 --> 00:35:11,729
Richard: else realizes that, you know?

1681
00:35:11,875 --> 00:35:12,336
Helen: So, and this

1682
00:35:12,336 --> 00:35:12,983
Richard: could go on ages,

1683
00:35:13,222 --> 00:35:13,432
where

1684
00:35:13,458 --> 00:35:15,978
Helen: the public figure's politician,
you'd think, well, that's a bit

1685
00:35:16,282 --> 00:35:17,152
Richard: really using

1686
00:35:17,178 --> 00:35:17,418
Helen: your,

1687
00:35:17,842 --> 00:35:20,962
Richard: uh, you know, political
profile to boost a company.

1688
00:35:20,962 --> 00:35:21,622
But, you

1689
00:35:21,622 --> 00:35:21,982
know, in this,

1690
00:35:22,012 --> 00:35:23,602
case, they're, they're boasting of that.

1691
00:35:23,692 --> 00:35:23,932
Mm. Yeah.

1692
00:35:23,962 --> 00:35:25,402
Quasi Quaye saying, oh, it's

1693
00:35:25,563 --> 00:35:26,343
Helen: saying, oh, it's
wonderful to have a

1694
00:35:26,645 --> 00:35:27,633
frontline politician,

1695
00:35:27,652 --> 00:35:30,923
Richard: as he described Farage
combining this, this sort of

1696
00:35:30,963 --> 00:35:31,503
Helen: financial

1697
00:35:31,503 --> 00:35:32,673
bubble with political

1698
00:35:33,413 --> 00:35:36,203
Richard: and saying, yeah,
come on, let's froth it all up.

1699
00:35:36,213 --> 00:35:37,323
Helen: It's, it's a bit like

1700
00:35:37,838 --> 00:35:39,158
Richard: Trump really on a

1701
00:35:39,213 --> 00:35:39,663
Helen: slightly

1702
00:35:39,663 --> 00:35:39,963
smaller

1703
00:35:39,963 --> 00:35:40,323
scale.

1704
00:35:40,328 --> 00:35:41,438
Andy: but not in the billions yet.

1705
00:35:41,738 --> 00:35:41,918
But

1706
00:35:42,273 --> 00:35:44,043
Helen: Farage has said he
wants the Bank of England to

1707
00:35:44,043 --> 00:35:46,203
have a Bitcoin reserve, and he

1708
00:35:46,203 --> 00:35:46,383
wants

1709
00:35:46,448 --> 00:35:46,868
Andy: slash

1710
00:35:46,868 --> 00:35:47,228
the

1711
00:35:47,258 --> 00:35:48,308
tax on Bitcoin

1712
00:35:48,723 --> 00:35:50,763
Helen: transactions or
cryptocurrency deals

1713
00:35:51,008 --> 00:35:51,368
Andy: by

1714
00:35:51,398 --> 00:35:51,608
more

1715
00:35:51,663 --> 00:35:52,353
Helen: than half.

1716
00:35:52,883 --> 00:35:54,083
is there an intellectual

1717
00:35:54,117 --> 00:35:54,597
Richard: underpinning

1718
00:35:54,597 --> 00:35:54,717
to

1719
00:35:54,747 --> 00:35:55,287
Ian: this or

1720
00:35:55,287 --> 00:35:55,437
is

1721
00:35:55,437 --> 00:35:56,877
there, yeah,

1722
00:35:57,207 --> 00:35:58,047
I thought you were about

1723
00:35:58,047 --> 00:36:01,467
to suggest, is the fact that
he's advocating a policy that

1724
00:36:01,467 --> 00:36:03,477
will benefit both him and all

1725
00:36:03,503 --> 00:36:04,313
Helen: his friends,

1726
00:36:04,317 --> 00:36:04,527
Ian: is

1727
00:36:04,527 --> 00:36:04,857
that in

1728
00:36:04,857 --> 00:36:05,067
some

1729
00:36:05,067 --> 00:36:05,957
way convenient?

1730
00:36:06,567 --> 00:36:06,777
And

1731
00:36:06,777 --> 00:36:06,867
I

1732
00:36:06,923 --> 00:36:07,133
Helen: think

1733
00:36:07,133 --> 00:36:07,253
the

1734
00:36:07,253 --> 00:36:07,673
answer

1735
00:36:07,673 --> 00:36:08,273
is yes.

1736
00:36:08,453 --> 00:36:08,543
I

1737
00:36:08,543 --> 00:36:08,693
think

1738
00:36:08,727 --> 00:36:08,937
Richard: is

1739
00:36:08,937 --> 00:36:09,267
very

1740
00:36:09,267 --> 00:36:09,987
convenient.

1741
00:36:10,227 --> 00:36:10,647
and the

1742
00:36:11,063 --> 00:36:13,403
Helen: You have to ring
underpinning is that people

1743
00:36:13,617 --> 00:36:14,967
Richard: Christopher Harboe like

1744
00:36:14,967 --> 00:36:15,567
it his

1745
00:36:15,593 --> 00:36:15,953
Helen: biggest

1746
00:36:15,953 --> 00:36:16,193
donor

1747
00:36:16,347 --> 00:36:16,947
Andy: and therefore

1748
00:36:16,947 --> 00:36:17,037
he

1749
00:36:17,037 --> 00:36:17,277
Richard: gives

1750
00:36:17,277 --> 00:36:17,427
him

1751
00:36:17,427 --> 00:36:18,027
millions.

1752
00:36:18,032 --> 00:36:18,262
This is

1753
00:36:18,263 --> 00:36:18,323
Helen: is

1754
00:36:18,323 --> 00:36:18,833
the Thailand

1755
00:36:18,833 --> 00:36:19,133
based,

1756
00:36:19,133 --> 00:36:20,693
this is Thailand based, Yeah.

1757
00:36:20,808 --> 00:36:21,468
Richard: who's given

1758
00:36:22,334 --> 00:36:23,114
Helen: reform party

1759
00:36:23,298 --> 00:36:23,418
Richard: than

1760
00:36:23,433 --> 00:36:23,778
20

1761
00:36:23,789 --> 00:36:24,884
Helen: million pounds.

1762
00:36:25,458 --> 00:36:26,238
coincidentally,

1763
00:36:26,797 --> 00:36:31,562
Richard: um, Farage, you know,
favors tax breaks and so on for

1764
00:36:31,569 --> 00:36:32,042
crypto

1765
00:36:32,296 --> 00:36:33,256
Ian: It is an enormous

1766
00:36:33,256 --> 00:36:33,646
amount

1767
00:36:33,646 --> 00:36:33,766
as

1768
00:36:33,766 --> 00:36:34,486
a donor, isn't

1769
00:36:34,486 --> 00:36:34,576
it?

1770
00:36:34,812 --> 00:36:34,902
Helen: I

1771
00:36:34,902 --> 00:36:35,292
know you

1772
00:36:35,742 --> 00:36:36,282
frequently

1773
00:36:36,282 --> 00:36:37,332
catalog who gives

1774
00:36:37,726 --> 00:36:38,086
Ian: money?

1775
00:36:38,472 --> 00:36:39,312
Helen: Nick Kante.

1776
00:36:39,654 --> 00:36:39,864
he's

1777
00:36:39,864 --> 00:36:40,644
the treasurer, isn't

1778
00:36:40,649 --> 00:36:40,729
he?

1779
00:36:40,729 --> 00:36:40,739
he?

1780
00:36:40,739 --> 00:36:40,764
is.

1781
00:36:41,164 --> 00:36:42,694
Richard: famous former

1782
00:36:42,749 --> 00:36:43,079
Helen: tax

1783
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:44,604
Exxon, making a lot of

1784
00:36:44,818 --> 00:36:46,318
Richard: while he was, uh, offshore

1785
00:36:46,464 --> 00:36:48,474
Helen: through cashing in on one Hyde Park

1786
00:36:48,508 --> 00:36:48,898
Richard: and so on.

1787
00:36:49,490 --> 00:36:49,785
we

1788
00:36:49,841 --> 00:36:50,621
Helen: report a couple of

1789
00:36:50,621 --> 00:36:51,131
others in the

1790
00:36:51,555 --> 00:36:52,095
Richard: issue.

1791
00:36:52,185 --> 00:36:52,575
Um.

1792
00:36:53,031 --> 00:36:55,071
Using companies in the UK that

1793
00:36:55,157 --> 00:36:55,877
Helen: are owned by

1794
00:36:56,031 --> 00:36:57,741
Richard: British Virgin Island companies.

1795
00:36:58,161 --> 00:36:59,781
So again, we're not quite sure where The

1796
00:36:59,781 --> 00:37:00,411
money's coming

1797
00:37:00,411 --> 00:37:00,681
from.

1798
00:37:00,681 --> 00:37:00,771
The

1799
00:37:00,827 --> 00:37:03,077
Helen: companies in the UK
are losing money, so it can't

1800
00:37:03,711 --> 00:37:04,131
Richard: be coming

1801
00:37:04,187 --> 00:37:05,117
Helen: entirely from them.

1802
00:37:05,751 --> 00:37:06,381
Richard: Um,

1803
00:37:06,858 --> 00:37:07,338
Helen: Yeah, and,

1804
00:37:07,338 --> 00:37:09,228
and there's various

1805
00:37:09,232 --> 00:37:10,577
Richard: other offshore donors.

1806
00:37:10,732 --> 00:37:11,992
There's another chap called Besim

1807
00:37:12,862 --> 00:37:13,072
Haar,

1808
00:37:13,488 --> 00:37:14,958
Helen: and Nigerian Lebanese

1809
00:37:15,082 --> 00:37:18,892
Richard: businessman
who's very vocal in, uh,

1810
00:37:19,432 --> 00:37:20,092
wanting

1811
00:37:20,328 --> 00:37:22,458
Helen: non dom tax breaks to come back in.

1812
00:37:23,122 --> 00:37:24,742
Richard: and he has become

1813
00:37:25,218 --> 00:37:25,398
Helen: one

1814
00:37:25,398 --> 00:37:25,938
of Nigel's

1815
00:37:26,092 --> 00:37:28,252
Richard: close friends accompanying him to

1816
00:37:28,267 --> 00:37:29,482
Mar-a-Lago and so on.

1817
00:37:29,580 --> 00:37:29,670
Andy: I

1818
00:37:29,681 --> 00:37:30,821
Helen: I just think the reform, that's

1819
00:37:31,410 --> 00:37:33,018
Andy: so public spirited of these

1820
00:37:33,058 --> 00:37:34,378
Helen: businessmen who don't live here.

1821
00:37:34,378 --> 00:37:34,828
They don't,

1822
00:37:34,908 --> 00:37:37,998
Andy: know, they, they, they could
just not get involved if they,

1823
00:37:38,238 --> 00:37:39,348
they wanted to have an easy life.

1824
00:37:39,348 --> 00:37:39,438
I

1825
00:37:39,478 --> 00:37:39,598
Helen: think

1826
00:37:39,723 --> 00:37:40,345
Ian: amazing that they're

1827
00:37:40,353 --> 00:37:40,533
doing

1828
00:37:40,533 --> 00:37:40,833
this

1829
00:37:41,013 --> 00:37:41,223
for

1830
00:37:41,223 --> 00:37:41,343
our

1831
00:37:41,343 --> 00:37:41,733
politics.

1832
00:37:41,748 --> 00:37:41,838
And,

1833
00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:44,600
Helen: I it all just makes, I
just, it makes me feel so moist.

1834
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:45,241
I'm sorry.

1835
00:37:45,301 --> 00:37:46,021
It really does.

1836
00:37:46,231 --> 00:37:49,441
I just really, really, seriously object
to it and having it yoked to this

1837
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:50,510
party

1838
00:37:50,993 --> 00:37:53,157
so Matt Goodwin, a
candidate of reform, you

1839
00:37:53,157 --> 00:37:56,667
know, he's been in a bit of a hot
water over book and people check

1840
00:37:56,697 --> 00:37:59,543
questioning the sourcing of that,
and he's gone instantly to you.

1841
00:37:59,543 --> 00:38:01,377
snooty libs are trying to take me down.

1842
00:38:01,433 --> 00:38:01,863
Right, right.

1843
00:38:02,123 --> 00:38:02,847
And to have

1844
00:38:02,847 --> 00:38:03,867
a group of people who's,

1845
00:38:04,497 --> 00:38:06,237
who are a kind of affront to some

1846
00:38:06,237 --> 00:38:09,803
extent for offshore money, and
there's a of tax reforms that would

1847
00:38:10,197 --> 00:38:13,523
extremely wealthy people saying
that the only people who oppose

1848
00:38:13,523 --> 00:38:14,423
me must be this

1849
00:38:14,607 --> 00:38:15,897
of metropolitan elite

1850
00:38:16,257 --> 00:38:17,247
just gets on my nerve,

1851
00:38:17,307 --> 00:38:18,282
Ian: Such chronic.

1852
00:38:18,862 --> 00:38:19,282
Really

1853
00:38:19,282 --> 00:38:19,682
He does.

1854
00:38:20,178 --> 00:38:21,443
Helen: I, I found the fact that.

1855
00:38:21,890 --> 00:38:22,850
Ian: Richard Tyson

1856
00:38:23,422 --> 00:38:24,046
Helen: avoids

1857
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:24,680
Ian: a lot of

1858
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:25,280
tax.

1859
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:26,870
Quite

1860
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:27,620
convenient.

1861
00:38:27,656 --> 00:38:28,621
Helen: How, how how does

1862
00:38:28,621 --> 00:38:29,071
he do that,

1863
00:38:29,071 --> 00:38:29,431
Richard?

1864
00:38:30,410 --> 00:38:31,730
Richard: Well, he did, he's,

1865
00:38:31,730 --> 00:38:31,970
he's

1866
00:38:31,985 --> 00:38:32,195
Ian: been

1867
00:38:32,195 --> 00:38:32,555
stopped

1868
00:38:32,555 --> 00:38:33,125
from doing it

1869
00:38:33,125 --> 00:38:33,335
now,

1870
00:38:33,335 --> 00:38:33,485
but

1871
00:38:33,485 --> 00:38:33,665
he

1872
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:34,130
Richard: did.

1873
00:38:34,295 --> 00:38:34,505
Helen: Uh,

1874
00:38:35,136 --> 00:38:35,881
he can't do anything

1875
00:38:35,963 --> 00:38:36,361
nowadays.

1876
00:38:36,385 --> 00:38:36,875
Andy: Exactly.

1877
00:38:37,018 --> 00:38:37,498
Was it

1878
00:38:37,509 --> 00:38:37,989
Helen: six, let's

1879
00:38:37,989 --> 00:38:38,259
just say

1880
00:38:38,259 --> 00:38:38,319
it

1881
00:38:38,319 --> 00:38:38,409
was

1882
00:38:38,409 --> 00:38:39,159
600,000

1883
00:38:39,448 --> 00:38:39,778
Richard: he managed

1884
00:38:39,778 --> 00:38:39,838
to

1885
00:38:39,838 --> 00:38:40,198
avoid in

1886
00:38:40,198 --> 00:38:40,468
tax.

1887
00:38:40,544 --> 00:38:40,754
Helen: wasn't that?

1888
00:38:40,759 --> 00:38:41,819
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1889
00:38:41,819 --> 00:38:41,829
Yeah.

1890
00:38:41,979 --> 00:38:43,239
He's, he's a property

1891
00:38:43,678 --> 00:38:44,128
Richard: man

1892
00:38:44,442 --> 00:38:44,622
Helen: and

1893
00:38:44,622 --> 00:38:45,372
he decides to do a

1894
00:38:45,481 --> 00:38:46,801
Richard: more tax efficiently.

1895
00:38:47,282 --> 00:38:47,969
Helen: labor government

1896
00:38:48,111 --> 00:38:49,281
Richard: 2007 had

1897
00:38:49,281 --> 00:38:50,271
introduced a new.

1898
00:38:50,549 --> 00:38:51,509
type of property

1899
00:38:51,565 --> 00:38:52,375
Helen: investment company

1900
00:38:52,499 --> 00:38:54,329
Richard: called a real estate investment

1901
00:38:54,329 --> 00:38:54,779
trust.

1902
00:38:55,375 --> 00:38:55,525
Helen: And The

1903
00:38:55,525 --> 00:38:56,035
idea

1904
00:38:56,035 --> 00:38:56,515
behind it

1905
00:38:56,729 --> 00:38:57,636
Richard: that, lots of

1906
00:38:57,662 --> 00:38:58,952
Helen: different types of investors

1907
00:38:59,016 --> 00:38:59,256
Richard: come

1908
00:38:59,312 --> 00:39:00,542
Helen: together, pull their money

1909
00:39:00,756 --> 00:39:03,126
Richard: and invest in property,
and we wanted to encourage that.

1910
00:39:03,735 --> 00:39:04,005
the,

1911
00:39:04,031 --> 00:39:05,591
Helen: the vehicle, they
pulled their money in

1912
00:39:05,805 --> 00:39:06,645
Richard: be taxable.

1913
00:39:07,139 --> 00:39:07,349
Helen: so

1914
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:07,409
it

1915
00:39:07,409 --> 00:39:07,529
was

1916
00:39:07,529 --> 00:39:08,009
intended

1917
00:39:08,009 --> 00:39:08,429
for like

1918
00:39:08,729 --> 00:39:09,659
big pool

1919
00:39:10,309 --> 00:39:11,179
Richard: investments,

1920
00:39:11,249 --> 00:39:11,844
Helen: like, you

1921
00:39:11,864 --> 00:39:13,909
Richard: like, like fund
managers look after and so

1922
00:39:13,909 --> 00:39:14,029
on.

1923
00:39:14,477 --> 00:39:17,740
not for small family property
companies based in Mayfair.

1924
00:39:18,370 --> 00:39:19,510
Um, but

1925
00:39:19,580 --> 00:39:19,910
Helen: Richard

1926
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:20,630
Tys found a

1927
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:21,350
way looking at

1928
00:39:21,350 --> 00:39:21,440
the

1929
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:21,890
rules

1930
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,895
of saying we are a, re you

1931
00:39:25,895 --> 00:39:26,645
know, so can we have a

1932
00:39:26,664 --> 00:39:26,904
Richard: tax

1933
00:39:26,904 --> 00:39:27,204
break?

1934
00:39:27,740 --> 00:39:28,280
Helen: happy days.

1935
00:39:28,509 --> 00:39:29,169
Richard: Um, and,

1936
00:39:29,210 --> 00:39:29,220
Helen: and,

1937
00:39:29,220 --> 00:39:30,350
and the revenue

1938
00:39:30,539 --> 00:39:32,219
Richard: did allow them that status for a

1939
00:39:32,259 --> 00:39:32,559
Helen: while.

1940
00:39:32,709 --> 00:39:32,889
Okay.

1941
00:39:33,089 --> 00:39:35,099
Richard: I think because they must

1942
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:36,549
Helen: have, or they claim they

1943
00:39:36,629 --> 00:39:38,219
Richard: looking for other investors,

1944
00:39:39,149 --> 00:39:39,509
which

1945
00:39:39,509 --> 00:39:39,839
funnily

1946
00:39:39,839 --> 00:39:40,349
enough didn't

1947
00:39:40,419 --> 00:39:40,839
Helen: come off

1948
00:39:41,174 --> 00:39:41,624
Ian: Right.

1949
00:39:41,834 --> 00:39:42,224
Uh,

1950
00:39:42,224 --> 00:39:42,674
and then that

1951
00:39:42,699 --> 00:39:42,819
Helen: was

1952
00:39:42,819 --> 00:39:42,969
it.

1953
00:39:43,144 --> 00:39:43,324
So

1954
00:39:43,324 --> 00:39:44,914
the revenue has now stopped this?

1955
00:39:45,779 --> 00:39:46,139
Yes.

1956
00:39:46,139 --> 00:39:46,308
They've

1957
00:39:46,323 --> 00:39:48,123
Richard: lost that status,

1958
00:39:48,652 --> 00:39:50,242
Ian: it's 600,000 pounds is quite a

1959
00:39:50,242 --> 00:39:50,482
lot of

1960
00:39:50,482 --> 00:39:50,722
money.

1961
00:39:51,228 --> 00:39:51,438
Helen: Yes.

1962
00:39:51,438 --> 00:39:51,528
And

1963
00:39:51,528 --> 00:39:52,068
you pointed

1964
00:39:52,222 --> 00:39:52,282
Ian: in

1965
00:39:52,282 --> 00:39:52,402
the

1966
00:39:52,402 --> 00:39:53,779
last issue that, it's

1967
00:39:53,779 --> 00:39:54,109
quite

1968
00:39:54,135 --> 00:39:54,435
Helen: a lot

1969
00:39:54,724 --> 00:39:55,054
Richard: than

1970
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:55,819
Ian: many

1971
00:39:55,819 --> 00:39:55,939
of

1972
00:39:55,965 --> 00:39:56,265
Helen: the

1973
00:39:56,419 --> 00:39:57,769
Ian: shirkers yeah.

1974
00:39:57,874 --> 00:39:58,174
Richard: That Mr.

1975
00:39:58,174 --> 00:39:58,654
Thais,

1976
00:39:59,044 --> 00:39:59,554
his party

1977
00:39:59,554 --> 00:39:59,644
have

1978
00:39:59,644 --> 00:39:59,944
been,

1979
00:39:59,944 --> 00:40:00,304
um,

1980
00:40:00,514 --> 00:40:00,694
pointing

1981
00:40:00,694 --> 00:40:00,754
at.

1982
00:40:00,754 --> 00:40:01,359
but that's the

1983
00:40:01,545 --> 00:40:02,240
Helen: towards that's the

1984
00:40:02,374 --> 00:40:02,434
Richard: I

1985
00:40:02,434 --> 00:40:02,764
mean the,

1986
00:40:02,764 --> 00:40:04,114
the, you know, this crowd

1987
00:40:04,965 --> 00:40:07,155
Helen: spec, if they specialize
in anything, it's gaming

1988
00:40:07,234 --> 00:40:07,804
Richard: system.

1989
00:40:08,268 --> 00:40:09,228
yet the things they're

1990
00:40:09,408 --> 00:40:11,118
probably most exercised

1991
00:40:11,118 --> 00:40:11,418
about

1992
00:40:11,478 --> 00:40:11,778
among

1993
00:40:11,778 --> 00:40:12,498
other people

1994
00:40:13,409 --> 00:40:13,559
Helen: He is

1995
00:40:13,638 --> 00:40:14,178
Richard: with less money

1996
00:40:14,184 --> 00:40:14,984
Helen: system, less money's gaming

1997
00:40:15,048 --> 00:40:15,108
Richard: the

1998
00:40:15,108 --> 00:40:15,648
system.

1999
00:40:16,398 --> 00:40:16,548
You

2000
00:40:16,589 --> 00:40:18,569
Helen: know, they, they
hate the idea of people

2001
00:40:18,723 --> 00:40:19,473
Ian: on benefits

2002
00:40:19,473 --> 00:40:19,593
and

2003
00:40:19,758 --> 00:40:19,968
Richard: on.

2004
00:40:20,055 --> 00:40:20,175
Or

2005
00:40:20,175 --> 00:40:20,655
making a

2006
00:40:20,655 --> 00:40:21,015
couple a

2007
00:40:21,015 --> 00:40:21,255
hundred

2008
00:40:21,296 --> 00:40:22,676
Helen: qui more than they should, yeah,

2009
00:40:22,766 --> 00:40:23,726
Benefits are okay if

2010
00:40:23,910 --> 00:40:24,150
sort

2011
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:24,956
of six figures,

2012
00:40:26,072 --> 00:40:27,422
I, I think I find it quite worrying.

2013
00:40:27,422 --> 00:40:29,852
'cause I think, say what I've got,
as you'll have heard on this podcast,

2014
00:40:29,852 --> 00:40:31,292
quite a few criticisms of, Stan.

2015
00:40:31,292 --> 00:40:32,451
I think he would front a

2016
00:40:32,451 --> 00:40:33,411
crypto company.

2017
00:40:33,711 --> 00:40:36,692
I don't think Theresa May would've
done, I don't think Jeremy Corbin

2018
00:40:36,891 --> 00:40:39,351
done, I don't think Gordon Brown
certainly would've done Tony

2019
00:40:39,351 --> 00:40:39,621
Blair.

2020
00:40:39,621 --> 00:40:41,402
Let's put a question
mark mark for that one.

2021
00:40:41,882 --> 00:40:43,832
Maybe I would've waited
until he left office.

2022
00:40:43,922 --> 00:40:44,402
Yeah, right.

2023
00:40:44,817 --> 00:40:49,052
And, and I'd say the populous drift
of that I think really bothers me that

2024
00:40:49,052 --> 00:40:52,821
the erosion of the idea of conflicts of
interest and the that you are in public

2025
00:40:52,821 --> 00:40:57,032
life, because as you say, the whole
value that crypto company is about,

2026
00:40:57,032 --> 00:40:59,691
as, um, it was said he's
frontline politician.

2027
00:40:59,871 --> 00:41:00,711
It's, it's

2028
00:41:00,771 --> 00:41:01,041
it's

2029
00:41:01,041 --> 00:41:01,521
a version

2030
00:41:01,592 --> 00:41:01,802
of what

2031
00:41:01,802 --> 00:41:02,282
Mandelson

2032
00:41:02,421 --> 00:41:02,811
selling

2033
00:41:02,811 --> 00:41:03,381
as you

2034
00:41:03,381 --> 00:41:04,401
know, is it's context.

2035
00:41:04,611 --> 00:41:04,731
Yeah.

2036
00:41:04,802 --> 00:41:05,312
That doesn't

2037
00:41:05,312 --> 00:41:06,332
work unless you are

2038
00:41:06,452 --> 00:41:06,722
in

2039
00:41:06,722 --> 00:41:07,592
politics.

2040
00:41:07,922 --> 00:41:09,141
So it to me,

2041
00:41:09,512 --> 00:41:10,112
a conflict, an

2042
00:41:10,521 --> 00:41:10,851
Richard: conflict

2043
00:41:10,851 --> 00:41:10,911
of

2044
00:41:10,911 --> 00:41:11,181
interest.

2045
00:41:11,181 --> 00:41:11,421
And as you

2046
00:41:11,421 --> 00:41:11,661
say,

2047
00:41:11,661 --> 00:41:11,931
very,

2048
00:41:12,411 --> 00:41:12,621
very

2049
00:41:12,621 --> 00:41:13,281
convenient,

2050
00:41:13,502 --> 00:41:15,332
Helen: Well, uh, I'm
gonna find the OED first

2051
00:41:15,411 --> 00:41:16,821
Andy: after this recording's over and ask

2052
00:41:16,892 --> 00:41:18,452
Helen: them to add a
new definition for the

2053
00:41:18,591 --> 00:41:19,401
Andy: convenient.

2054
00:41:20,331 --> 00:41:21,574
Um, thank

2055
00:41:21,614 --> 00:41:22,214
Helen: you so much for

2056
00:41:22,214 --> 00:41:22,734
watching.

2057
00:41:22,787 --> 00:41:23,207
Andy: This

2058
00:41:23,263 --> 00:41:24,883
Helen: podcast or listening to it.

2059
00:41:24,943 --> 00:41:25,393
If you would

2060
00:41:25,637 --> 00:41:26,657
Andy: to find out many

2061
00:41:26,713 --> 00:41:27,463
Helen: more of the brilliant

2062
00:41:27,767 --> 00:41:29,117
Andy: we've been running from Richard's,

2063
00:41:29,481 --> 00:41:32,301
Helen: in the money column to Old
Sparky's Reflections on the world of

2064
00:41:32,425 --> 00:41:33,445
Andy: and gas and the, the

2065
00:41:33,471 --> 00:41:35,421
Helen: the energy system and so much more.

2066
00:41:35,421 --> 00:41:36,711
Besides you can get a copy

2067
00:41:36,715 --> 00:41:37,735
Andy: of Private I

2068
00:41:38,061 --> 00:41:39,471
Helen: by going into

2069
00:41:39,475 --> 00:41:39,925
Andy: shop

2070
00:41:41,271 --> 00:41:41,781
Helen: and buying

2071
00:41:41,781 --> 00:41:42,681
one, or by

2072
00:41:42,681 --> 00:41:43,491
going to private for

2073
00:41:44,275 --> 00:41:44,665
Andy: uk,

2074
00:41:45,021 --> 00:41:46,401
Helen: uh, and subscribing,

2075
00:41:46,465 --> 00:41:47,845
Andy: which is very reasonably priced.

2076
00:41:47,845 --> 00:41:48,145
I mean,

2077
00:41:48,711 --> 00:41:49,551
Helen: Richard Ty could buy

2078
00:41:49,855 --> 00:41:52,135
Andy: several thousand
subscriptions to the magazine with

2079
00:41:52,221 --> 00:41:53,001
Helen: the money he's saved.

2080
00:41:53,001 --> 00:41:53,661
to Richard, if you're

2081
00:41:53,661 --> 00:41:53,961
watching,

2082
00:41:54,010 --> 00:41:54,460
Richard: we know You

2083
00:41:54,460 --> 00:41:54,670
Do,

2084
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:54,880
Yeah.

2085
00:41:55,131 --> 00:41:55,311
Helen: uh,

2086
00:41:55,311 --> 00:41:55,521
why

2087
00:41:55,521 --> 00:41:55,941
not do

2088
00:41:55,941 --> 00:41:56,271
that

2089
00:41:56,781 --> 00:41:57,291
until they go

2090
00:41:57,415 --> 00:41:57,475
Andy: up

2091
00:41:57,475 --> 00:41:57,925
in value

2092
00:41:57,925 --> 00:41:58,225
as well

2093
00:41:58,225 --> 00:41:58,345
as

2094
00:41:58,345 --> 00:41:59,605
down your

2095
00:41:59,691 --> 00:42:01,191
Helen: your old private eyes will never

2096
00:42:01,345 --> 00:42:01,615
Andy: down

2097
00:42:01,615 --> 00:42:02,905
in value and we guarantee

2098
00:42:02,905 --> 00:42:03,175
that.

2099
00:42:03,801 --> 00:42:07,041
Helen: Uh, thanks to Helen,
Ian, and Richard, and as always,

2100
00:42:07,041 --> 00:42:07,161
to

2101
00:42:07,161 --> 00:42:07,581
Matt Hill

2102
00:42:07,581 --> 00:42:07,701
of

2103
00:42:07,701 --> 00:42:08,716
Rethink Audio for producing.

2104
00:42:08,816 --> 00:42:09,166
Bye for now.

2105
00:42:09,220 --> 00:42:09,520
Richard: for now.