Shaun Dawson (00:02.798)
Hey y'all, you're tuned into Assigned Sex. I'm your non-binary cousin, Shaun Dawson, and this is a safe space where we're honest about what it means to show up as Black, trans, and genderqueer. Today I'm sitting down with Jade. Jade is one of the original cast members of the Assigned Sex documentary. We're catching up on where she is now, how community and chosen family has been holding her down, and what it feels like to care for your mind when the world keeps trying to misread you. Let's get into it.

Shaun Dawson (00:35.63)
When we met you were 21, you wanted to be a model. And I think you were living maybe on the Upper East Side? I had put out a Craigslist ad for looking for any like trans people that wanted to be a part of the documentary. You reached out and I mean it was on from there.

Aurora Jonez (01:00.972)
Welcome back to Living Life Aurora. I am your host, Aurora Jonez. And tonight, I have in the building with me the individuals behind the documentary Assigned Sex.

Shaun Dawson (01:13.622)
What made you want to do the doc?

Jade Cervantes (01:18.126)
Well, at the time we didn't have any, we didn't have really any representation for us, for the trans community. I felt like I could be, like when, people say a real voice. That's not what I meant. What I mean by a real voice is like real down to earth, someone like everyone can relate to because I don't try to really sugarcoat anything. I don't try to like fluff anything. I just give you how it is and how I see it. So I thought I would be really good. I would be a good addition to the documentary honestly.

Shaun Dawson (01:57.516)
You were. Do you want to hear what you said the first time when I asked you that question?

Shaun Dawson (01:58.062)
you want to hear what you said the first time when I asked you that question?

Jade Cervantes (02:00.088)
Yeah.

Jade Cervantes (02:02.188)
God gave me another chance to put my message out there or whatever and tell about my life and my struggles and show that there's somebody out there that's going through the same problems. When it comes to this lifestyle, you have to try to have lot of self-respect and a lot of morals and integrity because you can really tend to lose yourself if you let it get that far.

Shaun Dawson (02:21.944)
When you say it's easy to get yourself lost out there, what did you mean by that?

Jade Cervantes (02:27.158)
It's easy to fall into the wrong crowds for the wrong reasons. Well, I'm glad, I'm so glad I'm mature since then because I could express myself a bit more and articulate a bit more. When you're that young, you're looking for somebody, not really somebody, but you're looking for community. When I was that age, I was looking for somebody to...mentor me basically, just show me the ropes. And I got introduced to a lot of interesting characters that looking back at it now, if I would have probably followed those paths, I probably would have gone down a darker path. I would have gotten into a little bit more things that I probably didn't want to, like substances and other things. And I think that's what I really meant by that. That it's easier to just lose yourself. It's easier to lose who you are and become something that you think society would find acceptable.

Jade Cervantes (03:32.19)
So if you're trying to go by in the real world as a female and you're biologically born a male and you have strong features, it's very hard and people tend to notice they'll stop and stare at you and make rude facial gestures and stuff. It's just ridiculous.

Shaun Dawson (03:50.83)
You're born and raised in New York, right?

Jade Cervantes (03:54.286)
So I've noticed that being born, having the pleasure of being born here, I've been able to be around a bunch of different influences, a bunch of different cultures, perspectives. So when I left and went to Boston, Hampshire and all those other places, I've...realized how blessed I was to be around that kind of community, that kind of like support, because when I left, there wasn't really anything out there that I didn't have that kind of support.

Aurora Jonez (04:30.73)
Taken from the GLAAD website, transgender is an umbrella term often used to refer to people whose gender identity differs from their assigned sex at birth. However, people whose gender identity differs from their assigned sex at birth may not self-identify as transgender. Some may identify as transsexual, trans, genderqueer, or a person of transgender experience, etc, etc.

Shaun Dawson (04:57.71)
Yeah, when we met, remember like your grandma was your rock. I remember the relationship with your mom wasn't that great. And I remember you having a lot of siblings. How many siblings do you have?

Jade Cervantes (05:13.646)
I think there's 10 of us now, yeah.

Shaun Dawson (05:17.784)
Do you live with them now?

Jade Cervantes (05:39.64)
I live with two of them. my mom still had my sister Gina. So my sister Gina grew up with my mom. She's been with her the whole time. My mom kind of supports her a bit because she's special needs. So I'm here with her and my mom. And then we took in my brother Vincent when he got older because he just needed a place.

Shaun Dawson (05:43.988)
And you're the oldest? I mean, I want to know how this came back with you being cool with your mom. Because I remember when we started it was a little tough.

Jade Cervantes (05:50.286)
I...So I think it mainly initiated, I don't know if this was ever expressed, there was a shooting that happened. My mom and my brother got shot by my mom's ex-boyfriend.

Jade Cervantes (06:00.504)
So I think it mainly initiated, I don't know if this was ever expressed, there was a shooting that happened. My mom and my brother got shot by my mom's ex-boyfriend. And I was crazy. I think around that time is when she noticed how much she depended on me and relied on me.

Shaun Dawson (06:17.794)
Oh my God.

Jade Cervantes (06:26.53)
I think around that time is when she noticed how much she depended on me and relied on me. And when I tell you I took a five hour trip and turned that into three hours. I drove out here so quickly. Well, not me, but we got out here. Did 90 all the way.

Shaun Dawson (06:41.838)
Damn, yeah, that'll definitely....those type of things bring family closer.

Jade Cervantes (06:48.042)
Yeah, so she realized, I think, how much she needed me more. So she started reaching out more and started actually trying to rebuild our relationship.

Shaun Dawson (07:10.956)
Okay, so it's time for a little Black trans and genderqueer history. Today we're centering the story of Marsha P. Johnson.

Marsha P. Johnson (07:19.278)
Darling, I want my gay right now! I think it's about time the gay brothers and sisters got their rights, and especially the women!

speaker-1 (07:21.47)
How will this affect your job?

Marsha P. Johnson (07:34.331)
Darling, I don' have a job, I'm on welfare. I have no intentions on getting a job as long as this country discriminates against homosexuals!

Shaun Dawson (07:44.91)
Marsha was a Jersey girl. She was born on August 24th, 1945 in Elizabeth, New Jersey to a working class Black family.

Marsha P. Johnson (07:52.846)
I was one of those little religious church boys. Every Sunday, honey. I wanted to learn all about Jesus.

Shaun Dawson (08:05.376)
As a kid, she was Malcolm in her mother's house, draping towels and sheets like gowns, already reaching for femininity even when the adults around her kept locking everything back up in the closet. She said she started wearing dresses at the age of five.

Marsha P. Johnson (08:19.875)
I was young but I was young and naive. When I started wearing dresses at five years old. And I stopped for a long time. Because the boys next door used to try and get fresh with me. You know, try and have sex. Honey, I don't believe you should have sex until after you're married. I found out that boys do have sex when I was raped by this boy who was about...he was about 13 years old. He got all this sticky stuff all over my legs.

Shaun Dawson (08:54.094)
By 17, she had $5, a bag of clothes, and a head full of ideas. So she did what a lot of queer kids did and still do. She got on a bus to New York City. On Christopher Street, she reinvented herself as Marsha P. Johnson. And when people ask what the "P" stood for, she would say, "pay it no mind, darling." She was poor, Black, queer, and gender nonconforming at a time when being any of those things could get you locked up or killed.

So that little punchline was doing a lot of the heavy lifting. It was a boundary, a joke, and a warning shot to anyone who thought they could tell her who she was. Back in the 60s, downtown Manhattan was already rough for queer and trans folks. But it was especially rough for the street queens, hustlers, and kids who didn't have anywhere else to go. Marsha was out there doing sex work, getting arrested all the time, and crashing wherever she could. Even with all of that, she somehow turned sidewalks into runways and the piers into stages. She was doing drag, hustling to get her money up, and fighting cops in the same blocks where she was handing out flowers and hugs to kids who just got kicked out of their parents' homes.

Shaun Dawson (10:46.382)
On the 9th June, 1968, when cops raided the Stonewall Inn, Marsha was right there with the street queens, butch lesbians, street kids, and gay men who had had enough. Other people who were there remember the details differently, but what is clear is that Marsha was in that uprising era as a regular on Christopher Street, and she became one of the faces people attached to that rebellion.

She later says she got to Stonewall after the first night had already popped off. Yet the way her name keeps surfacing tells you just how much people saw her as a spirit of that resistance. After Stonewall, Marsha got to work. With Sylvia Rivera, she started STAR, the Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries. It was basically their version of chosen family. They were trying to house, feed, and look out for queer and trans kids who didn't have anywhere else to go, especially the ones doing sex work or living down by the piers.

Marsha P. Johnson (11:44.75)
Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries started out as a very good group. It was after Stonewall they started. They started at GAA. Mama Jean Devante, who used to be the marshal for all the parades. She was the one that talked Sylvia Rivera into leaving GAA. Because Sylvia Rivera, who was president and star, was a member of GAA and started a group of her own. And so she started Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries. And she asked me, would I come and be the vice president of that organization.

Shaun Dawson (12:24.46)
Marsha's mental health added another layer to her already difficult life. People close to her say she started having nervous breakdowns around 1970. Sometimes she walked down the street naked, talking to voices only she could hear, then get picked up by police and vanish into psych hospitals for months. When she came back, she'd be heavy on meds, moving slow, dulled down for a while until that bright, playful energy started to come back. It's the kind of violence people with serious mental illness know too well. Writers now talk about her through the lens of complex PTSD and neurodivergence.

Marsha P. Johnson (13:04.43)
You just go in there and they just give you medication three times a day, four times a day. And you just sit around and watch TV. Or you can smoke cigarettes and sit down in an area. And you go to sleep. It's good to know the rest is good for you. Yeah. Oh, sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes I just have these breakdowns that just keep coming up.

Shaun Dawson (13:35.368)
On top of all of that, she was living through the AIDS crisis at ground zero. In the 1980s and early 1990s, she cared for friends who were dying, including lovers and exes, and acted like a nurse for people in the community who had nobody else.

She eventually tested HIV positive herself around 1990 and talked openly about her status, trying to cut through the fear and stigma that was killing people faster than the virus itself. Even with all that chaos, Marcia never stopped showing up. She was out there in the streets as an activist marching with early Pride organizers, joining groups like Gay Liberation Front and ACT UP, and literally putting her body on the line for housing, healthcare, and safety for queer and trans folks.

Marsha P. Johnson (14:28.27)
I believe as long as there's people with AIDS and as long as gay people don't have their rights all across America there's no reason for celebration. That's how come I walk every year. That's how come I've been walking for gay rights all these years instead of riding cars and celebrating everything. Because you never completely have your rights, one person until you all have your rights.

Shaun Dawson (14:50.702)
People remember the flower crowns, the thrift store gowns, and that big laugh that cut through everything. That's why her face still shows up on posters and profile pictures, why people still call her Saint Marsha. She proved that you could be unwell, oppressed, and still wildly generous and kind. On July 6, 1992, Marsha's body was found floating in the Hudson River near the Christopher Street Piers. She was 46 years old. The police ruled it a suicide. Some people close to her, including activists and journalists, have said they believe she might have gone into the water during a mental health crisis, while others insist she was attacked. What everyone agrees on is that the police barely investigated.

speaker-2 (15:39.182)
We knew that she was getting more fragile. I think she was getting sicker. And she got a phone call and they said Marcia had come up from the bottom of river. And it was true. Marcia may have hallucinated and thought she saw her father in the bottom of the river. Or might have thought that she could walk home across the river to here and Hoboken on the water. You know, or she could have been harassed and jumped in the river to escape. We'll never really know it.

speaker-3 (16:04.782)
The word went out in the community that Marsha had been found in the river and supposedly it was a suicide and she had been harassed in that area. Obviously this was some kind of shady killing that had gone on. But unsurprisingly the cops just twiddled their thumbs and said, no no, it's a suicide. It's black gay person, we don't care. We're not going to investigate any person and everybody was outraged.

Shaun Dawson (16:26.654)
Years later, under pressure from activists, the NYPD changed her cause of death from suicide to undetermined, basically admitting they didn't have the proof they once claimed. An independent medical examiner who reexamined their original reports for a 2017 documentary said there was no clear sign of violent assault, that she likely entered the water alive, but also that you can't see inside someone's mind from an autopsy table.

What's wild is how her story keeps pulling people back to the same tension. Was this woman failed by her own brain, by the state or both? When we talk about mental health for Black trans and gender nonconforming people now, Marsha's life is basically a case study and how impossible it is to separate mental illness from poverty, anti-blackness, transphobia, and the trauma of being criminalized just for existing. The same systems that put her in psych wards,
doped her up, and left her on the street are the same ones that shrugged when she turned up dead, which is why her death still sits in that unresolved space. So when we say Marsha P. Johnson now, we're talking about a poor, Black, queer, gender nonconforming person who lived with serious mental illness, survived on sex work, and still managed to mother a whole generation of queer and trans kids. She fought cops, held hands at hospital beds, walked the piers in a crown of flowers, and kept telling anyone who tried to shrink her, "pay it no mind," even as her own mind was hurting.

Jade Cervantes (18:09.486)
So around the time, around this time two years ago, my grandmother ended up sending me a message asking me to come back home. Because I was kind of in a, I was kind of in a, a crossroads where I had the opportunity to continue staying in Ohio and continuing the job that I had or coming back home and figuring it out. So I decided to come back and then that led to me and my grandmother splitting.

Shaun Dawson (18:46.846)
I want to hear about that because your grandma was like she was in love with you. I can't even picture. Yeah, I can't even picture you guys not being close.

Jade Cervantes (18:59.016)
It's hard because When I left, I changed. I dropped a lot of the negative things that...tied me to this city and a lot of my negative behaviors, well that I found were negative behaviors, to try to become the person that I am today. I stopped being passive aggressive. I stopped being, I stopped beating around the bush. I completely removed that filter that I had because the filter was getting me absolutely nowhere. And I started defending myself a bit more and standing up for what I was standing up for me and not letting people push me around and take my kindness for weakness. So when I came back out here, I noticed that my grandmother, her issues that I that she had never really progressed. So when I came back, I noticed that she was still had she still had old habits that I didn't like.

So one day she just like, she misplaced something and she tried to, well, she said she didn't, she wasn't accusing me of stealing, but when you question somebody that you say that you have so much love for and you have so much trust in, you shouldn't have to ask me if I had it or if I found it or if I, any of, like, cause my grandmother has this way of trying to insinuate something without actually doing it and it kind of ticked me off and I was just like, you know what? I'm done. Like I can't do with this. So I removed myself from that and there was that one little, that was that little crack. But then one day I, this was after I moved out. I was with my mom for a while, got a job. And I've been, I was holding it down for a bit and just busting my ass. And I woke up and I hear my mom talking to my grandmother on speakerphone and she's like talking, talking absolute shit about like my brother's girlfriend at the time. And was just like, oh, all they want to do is lay on their lazy asses and do nothing like La. And I was just like, like me, what do I have to do with anything?

Jade Cervantes (21:23.406)
Like what? So I jumped up and in the heat of an Aries passion, I went off and I was just like, what are you talking about? Like, well, I didn't say what are you talking about? I kind of got a little bit worse. Well, if you've, if you've experienced an Aries, you know, we can be a We can get pretty argumentative. So, um, when I, when I heard that, I really threw a lot at her.

Shaun Dawson (21:41.484)
Not the Aries passion...

Jade Cervantes (21:43.854)
We can get pretty argumentative. When I heard that, I really threw a lot at her and that's where I just put my foot down and I was like, you know what, I'm not dealing with this no more. I'm not gonna let you belittle me, berate me, and just put down everything that I've worked hard for to accomplish in my life. So that's where we disconnected. And she's been trying now.

Shaun Dawson (22:12.045)
I know Aries like to fight.

speaker-0 (22:13.29)
That's where I just put the I put my foot down and I was like you know what I'm not dealing with this no more I'm not gonna let you belittle me berate me and just put down everything that I've worked hard for to accomplish in my life so that's where we disconnected and she's been trying now...not now but after I spoke to her but I we went I think a year without talking and
that's because I was not going to sit there and I wasn't going to try to be the bigger person anymore. I'm tired of being the bigger person. Every time she did something wrong, I'd be the one to be like, hey, so are we good? Let's squash this. But I was like, no, I'm done. She needs to take accountability for her actions. And so that's what caused this rest.

Shaun Dawson (22:42.348)
What would you say are your most important relationships now?

Jade Cervantes (22:45.614)
My best friend Jasmine. I don't know if I spoke to her around the time we, think we, no, I think I met her after we did this documentary, after we did the documentary. And she's been such a rock for me. Like she's been, I actually wrote a song for her, but she's been such a positive role model for me. We're both Aries, but she's like. She's more level-headed. She's the logical one. She'll think before acting. I'm the one that acts and then thinks. So we kind of balance each other out. And she's been the one to really hold shit down for me and keep me in a level-headed space. Well, I can't just say her, though. There's been a handful of people, honestly. I've got a friend named Aphrodite. She's the one that actually took me from New York. She's the one that brought me to New Hampshire. She's another one that's been holding things down for me. She's been like a huge spiritual advisor for me whenever I'm feeling...at a spiritual crossroad or I have some type of spiritual warfare going on. I go to her always. She keeps me grounded. So I have a network of people that I tend to reach.

Shaun Dawson (24:03.47)
Yeah sounds like you got a support system, which is always good.

Aurora Jonez (24:06.644)
We're prompted you guys to actually do the documentary. What were the events that led up to you deciding, okay, this is what we're going to do?

Shaun Dawson (24:15.118)
I have a few transgender friends and I've always been curious just what led up to their transition, what made them want to come to that point. And most of my transgender friends, once they transitioned, they pretty much cut themselves off. They isolate themselves. And I felt there aren't any transgender mentors out there. So I started doing my own research. wanted like a peek in. I started YouTubing, Googling. And I came across some research done back in 2010 and the suicide rate among the transgender community was at 42 % in 2010. And I was like, that is crazy. And I feel that that's because these individuals are finding themselves by themselves. What did it feel like the first time you had to watch yourself back on screen?

Jade Cervantes (25:13.166)
I remember that day too. I remember that day specifically. I'm trying to remember exactly where I was though when we were watching it. I think I was with a few of my roommates at the time. I was in New Hampshire and I told them about it. I was a bit shocked and nervous. I was nervous because at that point in time, I wanted to put myself out there. I wanted to be a voice for the community, but I was so nervous and so scared because it's the world. It's the world. Putting ourselves out there, really gives us, it puts us.

Shaun Dawson (25:46.712)
Like, yeah, it's the world.

Jade Cervantes (25:57.098)
It subjects us to everybody's comments, everybody's opinions. And now I know how to block that stuff out and how to just disregard all that because it's just annoying.

Shaun Dawson (26:10.412)
The hardest part was probably finding the cast. Just finding people that were as motivated as we are, that are willing to be on the team and go hard. That was the hardest part. And they were confident and had the courage to share their stories. And they don't mind being judged because basically they're putting themselves out there. Right. Like I was tired of answering questions. I definitely get that we were all, I think we were all scared about putting ourselves out there and then having to like...answer to other people.

Jade Cervantes (26:42.688)
Yeah, I was actually talking to a friend of mine who's also trans and she, we were basically explaining to another friend of ours that like, the trans experience as a whole is something that trans people have that ties us together. But everybody's trans experience is completely different. Like, yes, we experience similar things or similar aspects of the trans experience, but it's all a different experience for everybody. So like what one person finds easy to easy to live, another person might find is a struggle. And we were actually just sitting down and explaining that to her and just educating, honestly. It's fun. I honestly, I find it fun to educate people.

Aurora Jonez (27:33.166)
From what I've seen so far, the individuals that you do have.. Okay, yeah, I want to hear what they have to say.

Shaun Dawson (27:41.352)
With you, what stuck out most and it's great to see this place where you're at now, it was just your mental health. Just watching you, how much you've grown from back then, talking about your mental health to now where you have a solid support system and you seem a lot more optimistic.

Jade Cervantes (28:02.094)
Depression actually is a big problem with me. I've actually been diagnosed as clinically depressed. I've cut myself. I've tried overdosing. I've...What else? I think I tried to drown myself once, that didn't work. It wasn't me wanting to actually die, but me wanting to run away from the situation, having to, not wanting to deal with it. I was so confused about my gender and I had so many questions. Religion was also a big part of it. I actually got admitted into a mental hospital. And once I actually got the experience of what actual crazy was. I didn't want to, I was done with it.\

Jade Cervantes (28:52.686)
Yeah, that was a dark time in my life. Honestly, I think it was because I was relying so heavily on the validation of a partner. I was a serial monogamous at the time. I was just going from relationship to relationship to relationship. So my value at the time depended on how that person felt about me, or if I had a person, then I was valuable. But...I've changed. I'm not with anyone.

Shaun Dawson(29:22.03)
Are you monogamous now?

Jade Cervantes (29:23.336)
I'm not with anyone.

Shaun Dawson (29:26.158)
Where do you find your trans joy that keeps you, what keeps you grounded?

Jade Cervantes (29:31.118)
So I've been making music for like the past month. I also am teaching myself Unreal Engine, which is like one of the big engines that a lot of these video game developers utilize for their game performance. So far I've got like, I think eight tracks out, which is pretty fun. And yeah, like it's just something I listened to advice that Beyonce gave Megan the Stallion and I took that and I ran with it because she was basically talking to her about all the drinking she was doing and she was like, well, if you're gonna be drinking, why are you drinking somebody else's liquor? not drink your own? So the next time I see you, you better be drinking your own liquor. And I think she made her own tequila.

Shaun Dawson (30:03.682)
What was the advice?

Jade Cervantes (30:18.592)
And me, I'm at the point in my life where I'm just tired of the nonsense music. I'm tired of the over sexualization in music. I would love to start hearing actual messages in music again, and actual creativity. So I was just like, you know what, let me just start putting on music that I wanna listen to and that I wanna hear. So I'm on Spotify, I'm on iTunes under Fox Sinclair, that's my artist name. Fox Sinclair was a character, so she's kind of like Beyonce's Sasha Fierce.

Jade Cervantes (31:06.126)
But I came up with Fox Sinclair as a character back in like 2011. And that character has always been in my life in some form or way. And I honestly am starting to create a novel for her. And I started writing, I wanted to make it into an audio drama, but we'll see how that goes. But yeah, no, she's been like my alter ego that I tap into every once in a while. She's a powerful, powerful woman. So I use her to push my music out there. Since I'm not the best vocalist, I use AI-generated vocals for my music, mix the beats myself, master my music myself, write my own lyrics. But I get so much backlash for the AI vocals and I'm just like, okay.

Shaun Dawson (31:52.942)
I mean, Jade, I'm gonna be real, like people are dying Beyonce. You're sucking up everybody's water, the AI. The thing is with AI, it's complicated because I feel like, one, I don't think it's sustainable. I'm like, I'm curious where AI will be in five years or if it'll still be a thing.

Jade Cervantes (32:09.932)
Right

Shaun Dawson (32:10.038)
But then also when sometimes I hear myself thinking about AI, I'm just like, am I outdated? Cause I remember like just hearing like my grandparents talk about like stuff like don't do this and don't do that. Like my granddad used to have a thing with microwaves. We had a microwave, but we weren't allowed to use it because he's just like, you're cooking your food with radiation.I was like, why do we have a fucking microwave then if we can't use it? And now I find myself, I rarely, I have a microwave but I don't use it because I'm like, we're cooking our food with radiation!

Shaun Dawson (32:58.542)
So with AI, kind of feel the same. I'm just like, we're, we're cool these data centers and they're putting these data centers like in the hood. And people are dying Beyonce.

Shaun Dawson(33:17.016)
If you want to connect with Jade, you can find her on Instagram at _officialJade_MUA. You can also stream her music on Spotify and Apple Music under the name Fox Sinclair.

The Marsha P Johnson audio you heard today comes from two places. The documentary, Pay It No Mind: The Life and Times of Marsha P Johnson, directed by Michael Kasino and an Artifacts interview with Marsha from their Gender Bender series.

If this episode dragged you a little bit or if it hugged you a little bit, please share it with someone you love. You can find me, your nonbinary cousin, Shaun Dawson on all platforms @iamsdawson.

Ya’ll be safe out there.