1 00:00:11,561 --> 00:00:14,643 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: He noticed a huge tibia, maybe a metre long, 2 00:00:14,903 --> 00:00:20,087 black dinosaur bone on the beach. So he went up the cliff 3 00:00:20,968 --> 00:00:25,611 and quite high up in the cliff he found another bone sticking 4 00:00:25,711 --> 00:00:25,951 out. 5 00:00:28,713 --> 00:00:31,155 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Job titles don't get much better than Namer 6 00:00:31,156 --> 00:00:34,518 of Dinosaurs. And in order to name a dinosaur, you need to 7 00:00:34,519 --> 00:00:38,561 have discovered a new one. We're off to the Isle of Wight, the 8 00:00:38,562 --> 00:00:41,344 most prolific place for dinosaurs in Europe, to the 9 00:00:41,364 --> 00:00:45,527 scene of a once-in-a-lifetime find. I'm Rosie Holdsworth, a 10 00:00:45,568 --> 00:00:49,931 ranger at the National Trust. Welcome to Wild Tales and the 11 00:00:49,971 --> 00:00:51,953 story of the dinosaur in the cliff. 12 00:01:00,668 --> 00:01:04,130 I'm in Compton Bay on the Isle of Wight. It's an absolutely 13 00:01:04,170 --> 00:01:07,513 beautiful morning, bright and breezy and early. The skylarks 14 00:01:07,533 --> 00:01:10,675 are singing, I'm looking out over the calm waters of the bay 15 00:01:11,315 --> 00:01:15,478 and I am here to find out a little bit more about dinosaurs, 16 00:01:15,478 --> 00:01:19,221 which I'm very excited about, and I need an expert and 17 00:01:19,281 --> 00:01:23,964 fortunately I've come to meet just one of those. He is Jeremy 18 00:01:24,024 --> 00:01:27,146 Lockwood and he is a Namer of Dinosaurs. 19 00:01:27,306 --> 00:01:30,608 He's a doctor of paleontology and I'm hoping I'm going to bump 20 00:01:30,668 --> 00:01:35,010 into him just around the corner here. Good morning. 21 00:01:35,310 --> 00:01:35,991 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Good morning. 22 00:01:36,311 --> 00:01:37,211 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: You must be Jeremy. 23 00:01:37,692 --> 00:01:39,473 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: I am indeed, yes. Pleased to meet you. 24 00:01:39,474 --> 00:01:40,133 Pleased to meet you. 25 00:01:44,916 --> 00:01:47,157 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: My companion for the day, Dr Jeremy Lockwood, 26 00:01:47,337 --> 00:01:50,079 is going to take me down to the beach where his friend Nick made 27 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:55,141 an incredible find in 2013. Nick, a dab hand at finding 28 00:01:55,161 --> 00:01:59,403 dinosaurs, found a metre-long bone on the beach, scrambled up 29 00:01:59,404 --> 00:02:03,526 the cliff directly above and found another bone. Realising he 30 00:02:03,606 --> 00:02:06,647 had a potentially good amount of dinosaur on his hands, he called 31 00:02:06,648 --> 00:02:10,229 in back up to excavate and Jeremy was among the team. 32 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:14,472 Little did they know at this stage what it was that they'd 33 00:02:14,492 --> 00:02:17,973 discovered. In fact, it would be several years before the 34 00:02:17,993 --> 00:02:21,555 significance of that day's find on this spectacular beach would 35 00:02:21,595 --> 00:02:25,597 reveal itself. And we're off today back to the exact same 36 00:02:25,657 --> 00:02:28,059 spot where the dinosaur that would become known as 37 00:02:28,239 --> 00:02:30,520 Comptonatus chasei was found. 38 00:02:37,844 --> 00:02:41,106 So looking out along this enormous stretch of sand, how 39 00:02:41,226 --> 00:02:42,087 far along are we going to go? 40 00:02:42,088 --> 00:02:43,928 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Not very far. Where that little bit is 41 00:02:44,248 --> 00:02:48,670 jutting out a few hundred metres away is where we're going to go. 42 00:02:48,690 --> 00:02:53,834 That was where Comptonatus, this dinosaur, was found, so we 43 00:02:54,314 --> 00:02:56,697 should be able to actually see the exact spot. 44 00:02:56,697 --> 00:02:57,137 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Brilliant 45 00:02:58,198 --> 00:03:01,141 Finding dinosaur bones on the Isle of Wight isn't particularly 46 00:03:01,181 --> 00:03:04,584 unusual. In the summers especially the beaches here are 47 00:03:04,704 --> 00:03:07,787 filled with fossil hunters - it's one of the best places in 48 00:03:07,867 --> 00:03:11,651 Europe for finds - but the discovery I'm here to find out 49 00:03:11,671 --> 00:03:15,615 more about was a once in a lifetime and it wasn't just luck 50 00:03:18,212 --> 00:03:21,514 The man who found it, Jeremy's long-time friend Nick, had spent 51 00:03:21,714 --> 00:03:24,996 hours walking along this beach in particular, scouring for 52 00:03:25,056 --> 00:03:27,517 finds for pretty much his entire adult life. 53 00:03:28,378 --> 00:03:31,219 Things he found were passed on to the Dinosaur Isle Museum on 54 00:03:31,220 --> 00:03:35,582 the Isle of Wight for safekeeping. But the 2013 find 55 00:03:35,583 --> 00:03:38,924 was to be hugely significant. Not only would it turn out to be 56 00:03:38,944 --> 00:03:41,565 one of the best preserved dinosaurs ever to be found in 57 00:03:41,566 --> 00:03:45,667 the UK, it was also a new species, a new member of the 58 00:03:45,707 --> 00:03:49,153 Iguanodon family. Cementing the Isle of Wight is one of the best 59 00:03:49,173 --> 00:03:50,694 places to study dinosaurs. 60 00:03:54,496 --> 00:03:57,358 There's a bit of a walk to get to the cliffs in question, so as 61 00:03:57,359 --> 00:04:00,540 we head off along the beach, I ask Jeremy to explain exactly 62 00:04:00,580 --> 00:04:03,461 what it is about the area that means dinosaur bones are so 63 00:04:03,561 --> 00:04:04,402 often found here. 64 00:04:05,042 --> 00:04:08,204 What is it particularly about Compton Bay that makes it so 65 00:04:08,364 --> 00:04:10,245 good for dinosaur bones? 66 00:04:11,205 --> 00:04:13,527 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Probably a lot of the south-east of England 67 00:04:13,847 --> 00:04:17,233 has these dinosaur beds in them. But they're all under the 68 00:04:17,253 --> 00:04:20,838 ground. Yeah. And the days have gone when people dug little 69 00:04:20,918 --> 00:04:25,443 quarries for every village. So these beds are exposed to the 70 00:04:25,483 --> 00:04:31,010 Atlantic. And, you know, as we can see, this is eroding this 71 00:04:31,110 --> 00:04:32,912 away really rapidly. 72 00:04:36,504 --> 00:04:38,605 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: The sea and the power of the waves are doing 73 00:04:38,606 --> 00:04:41,848 the job of the old quarry workers constantly nibbling away 74 00:04:41,849 --> 00:04:44,930 at the land revealing new rocks, new patches of earth. 75 00:04:48,352 --> 00:04:50,614 But it's not just its position right by the coast that's 76 00:04:50,654 --> 00:04:53,796 significant. For the other part of the jigsaw you've got to go 77 00:04:53,856 --> 00:04:56,398 back more than 120 million years. 78 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:00,681 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: The other thing is this was a river 79 00:05:00,741 --> 00:05:05,365 floodplain, which is a particularly good place to find 80 00:05:05,425 --> 00:05:08,968 fossils because things are rapidly buried. And we get times 81 00:05:09,088 --> 00:05:11,530 where we had huge floods here. 82 00:05:14,633 --> 00:05:17,616 The Cretaceous was very hot. There'd been a lot of volcanic 83 00:05:17,716 --> 00:05:22,500 activity, and sea levels were rising. So we get torrential 84 00:05:22,580 --> 00:05:27,244 downpours. And these are thought to bring up sheet floods which 85 00:05:27,264 --> 00:05:29,826 would come down from the hills which, were probably to the 86 00:05:29,886 --> 00:05:32,088 north, and just sweep everything up. 87 00:05:32,088 --> 00:05:40,855 It would just bury things very rapidly with no oxygen. 88 00:05:40,855 --> 00:05:44,939 We find these beds called plant debris beds and they're the ones 89 00:05:45,039 --> 00:05:49,082 that we find 90 percent of the bones in and it just preserves 90 00:05:49,102 --> 00:05:53,106 them in absolute beautiful condition that's why the Isle of 91 00:05:53,126 --> 00:05:55,828 Wight is so perfect for dinosaur bones so it's. 92 00:05:56,088 --> 00:05:57,829 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Bad news for the dinosaurs, but good news for 93 00:05:57,849 --> 00:05:58,569 dinosaur hunters. 94 00:05:58,570 --> 00:06:00,050 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Yeah, pretty much. I'm sure a lot of them 95 00:06:00,070 --> 00:06:04,493 managed to get away from the flashfloods. We do find some 96 00:06:04,553 --> 00:06:07,975 fossils, which is just the legs stuck in the ground. So they 97 00:06:08,015 --> 00:06:11,357 probably got stuck sometimes. So there could have been some bad 98 00:06:11,517 --> 00:06:12,457 endings, yes. 99 00:06:16,019 --> 00:06:17,220 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: With everything I've discovered so 100 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,722 far, as we continue to walk along to the spot, it's fair to 101 00:06:20,762 --> 00:06:23,684 say I'm feeling quite hopeful that I might find something 102 00:06:23,724 --> 00:06:27,709 myself. I know it's unlikely but you never know and I have an 103 00:06:27,889 --> 00:06:32,770 excellent guide by my side. As we cover the last bit of beach I 104 00:06:32,790 --> 00:06:35,771 ask Jeremy how far back his love of dinosaurs stretches. 105 00:06:37,071 --> 00:06:39,672 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: So I'm getting on a bit now. When I was 106 00:06:39,692 --> 00:06:43,653 a small boy I was really interested in fossils. I had a 107 00:06:43,693 --> 00:06:46,954 friend at school right from the age of five and it was a strange 108 00:06:46,994 --> 00:06:50,195 thing because no one else in the school was at all interested in 109 00:06:50,235 --> 00:06:50,675 dinosaurs. 110 00:06:50,755 --> 00:06:51,095 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Really? 111 00:06:51,555 --> 00:06:53,936 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: This was a long way before Jurassic Park. 112 00:06:54,196 --> 00:06:54,957 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Right yeah 113 00:06:54,958 --> 00:06:56,618 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Like this. But we always dreamed of 114 00:06:56,678 --> 00:06:58,400 dinosaurs. 115 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,822 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: His childhood interest then stretched into 116 00:07:00,902 --> 00:07:04,245 adulthood. Family holidays were taken on the Isle of Wight and 117 00:07:04,246 --> 00:07:06,707 his passion was reignited. 118 00:07:06,707 --> 00:07:08,128 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: When my children were younger, maybe 119 00:07:08,129 --> 00:07:11,791 about 30 years ago, we started coming down here and walking 120 00:07:11,831 --> 00:07:14,833 along and I heard there were dinosaur fossils here so I 121 00:07:14,834 --> 00:07:18,376 started looking, and started finding dinosaur bones and it 122 00:07:18,416 --> 00:07:21,639 just rekindled all that, all that interest. 123 00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:23,044 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: All excitement of it? 124 00:07:23,044 --> 00:07:23,140 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: All the excitement. 125 00:07:26,521 --> 00:07:28,362 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: The holidays were a break from Jeremy's 126 00:07:28,402 --> 00:07:29,742 demanding job as a doctor. 127 00:07:30,503 --> 00:07:33,264 A job that would go on to eventually help him in dinosaur 128 00:07:33,364 --> 00:07:34,204 identification. 129 00:07:35,184 --> 00:07:37,145 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: So I was a general practitioner in the 130 00:07:37,146 --> 00:07:41,307 Midlands. I did that for 30 years. Before that I'd been a 131 00:07:41,347 --> 00:07:44,728 junior doctor for quite a long time. I quite enjoyed working in 132 00:07:45,209 --> 00:07:46,509 accident and emergency. 133 00:07:47,109 --> 00:07:49,710 The problem with medicine is once you've retired you can't 134 00:07:49,850 --> 00:07:52,852 use your knowledge. You can't carry on teaching and I enjoyed 135 00:07:52,892 --> 00:07:57,993 teaching. So I thought I'll do a PhD on the dinosaurs. So I went 136 00:07:58,093 --> 00:08:01,954 to Portsmouth University and spent five years doing a PhD. 137 00:08:01,955 --> 00:08:02,555 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Amazing. 138 00:08:03,435 --> 00:08:07,856 So with the medical training and the history as a GP, did that 139 00:08:08,036 --> 00:08:10,497 help you at all in kind of determining the different 140 00:08:10,777 --> 00:08:13,058 species and the different types of bones you were finding? 141 00:08:13,218 --> 00:08:14,818 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: I did a little bit of surgery before 142 00:08:14,858 --> 00:08:17,739 general practice. So as a medical student, I learned a lot 143 00:08:17,740 --> 00:08:20,900 of anatomy. Dinosaur anatomies and human anatomies are... 144 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:22,581 Really very different. 145 00:08:22,881 --> 00:08:23,041 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Yeah. 146 00:08:23,121 --> 00:08:25,222 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: But they've got the same sort of names and, 147 00:08:25,282 --> 00:08:28,264 you know, a lot of the parts are the same. So, yes, that was 148 00:08:28,304 --> 00:08:29,124 quite helpful. 149 00:08:29,885 --> 00:08:31,405 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: And with that, we're at the spot. 150 00:08:33,026 --> 00:08:34,007 Have a scramble about. 151 00:08:36,428 --> 00:08:39,510 Before Jeremy tells me about the day of the find, we scramble up 152 00:08:39,511 --> 00:08:42,772 the cliff to see if we can find anything today. My heart's 153 00:08:42,892 --> 00:08:45,653 racing. I'm half thinking I'm going to find something. I'm 154 00:08:45,693 --> 00:08:48,094 definitely going to find something. And then equally 155 00:08:48,154 --> 00:08:50,456 thinking there's absolutely no way I'll find anything. 156 00:08:53,528 --> 00:08:56,350 But we're searching in April and the winter storms have been 157 00:08:56,390 --> 00:09:00,213 having a good go at the cliffs. Even seasoned all-weather 158 00:09:00,413 --> 00:09:04,115 lifelong beachgoer Fossil Hunter Jeremy is shocked by how much. 159 00:09:05,316 --> 00:09:06,417 You can hear it in his voice. 160 00:09:07,918 --> 00:09:09,459 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: This is absolutely phenomenal. 161 00:09:12,161 --> 00:09:15,903 This debris bed has been taken back more than in years. 162 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:19,781 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: I can't imagine how on earth you would 163 00:09:19,821 --> 00:09:23,483 ever spot anything in here because it's you having to 164 00:09:23,503 --> 00:09:27,504 concentrate so hard on not falling over or tumbling down, 165 00:09:27,505 --> 00:09:30,766 down onto the beach, that keeping an eye out for tiny 166 00:09:31,066 --> 00:09:37,249 fragments of bone is quite the skill and it really is a jumble 167 00:09:37,269 --> 00:09:41,811 of all sorts of different colours of mud and all that 168 00:09:41,891 --> 00:09:43,191 organic material. 169 00:09:43,191 --> 00:09:47,093 How on earth you start to look for things I really don't know. 170 00:09:50,315 --> 00:09:53,657 And then, something to show me. But what's he seen? 171 00:09:55,077 --> 00:09:55,197 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Ok. 172 00:09:57,499 --> 00:10:01,324 When these floods occurred, a lot of the stuff that came down 173 00:10:01,405 --> 00:10:05,166 with the bones, most of it was plant debris, and because it was 174 00:10:05,246 --> 00:10:09,368 buried so rapidly it didn't deteriorate and we get sort of 175 00:10:09,468 --> 00:10:10,168 black... 176 00:10:10,168 --> 00:10:11,889 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: I was going to say is that this black is that 177 00:10:11,929 --> 00:10:13,069 because it's organic matter? 178 00:10:13,089 --> 00:10:14,950 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Yes if we look down in here, exactly. 179 00:10:15,450 --> 00:10:17,611 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Oh wow yeah oh my goodness. 180 00:10:17,612 --> 00:10:20,132 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: So there you can see there so that's 125 181 00:10:20,172 --> 00:10:23,694 million year old piece of wood and sometimes we get charcoal so 182 00:10:23,714 --> 00:10:26,655 there must have been a lot of forest fires going on at some 183 00:10:26,695 --> 00:10:33,394 point or another. Yes it's all It's slumped down but everything 184 00:10:33,414 --> 00:10:35,576 has just collapsed in the last few weeks here. 185 00:10:36,256 --> 00:10:37,938 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Then Jeremy finds something else. 186 00:10:38,378 --> 00:10:40,619 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: So we have an oyster here. So that's from 187 00:10:40,740 --> 00:10:43,922 the sea, so that's probably from higher up and has washed down. 188 00:10:44,682 --> 00:10:47,444 So that's about a 120 million year old oyster. 189 00:10:48,685 --> 00:10:50,507 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: And after a bit more scrambling we're in a 190 00:10:50,587 --> 00:10:54,590 much better spot to see where Comptonatus Chasei was dug out. 191 00:10:55,730 --> 00:10:57,472 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: You can see the main part of the cliff 192 00:10:57,592 --> 00:11:00,634 there. Not the very top bit, but the main cliff is a sort of 193 00:11:02,075 --> 00:11:03,176 pinky brown colour. 194 00:11:03,296 --> 00:11:03,456 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Yeah. 195 00:11:03,817 --> 00:11:06,759 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: And that's very typical of soil. But we've 196 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:13,585 got that grey layer underneath it. And that's the layer that 197 00:11:13,685 --> 00:11:15,947 held the Comptonatus. 198 00:11:16,227 --> 00:11:16,487 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Right. 199 00:11:17,128 --> 00:11:19,770 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: And in fact, this bit here is some of the 200 00:11:19,970 --> 00:11:21,412 stuff we dug out. 201 00:11:21,592 --> 00:11:22,412 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Oh, wow. Okay. 202 00:11:22,653 --> 00:11:24,754 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: So just as we go around the corner up 203 00:11:24,855 --> 00:11:27,556 there, that's where we had to dig. Which wasn't too bad 204 00:11:27,557 --> 00:11:29,658 because we're not too far from the top of the cliff. 205 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:36,981 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: And Nick, Jeremy and the rest of the crew 206 00:11:37,081 --> 00:11:39,783 made plenty of trips to the top of the cliff as they kept 207 00:11:39,823 --> 00:11:45,025 finding more and more bones. The find was, for Nick especially, 208 00:11:45,305 --> 00:11:47,646 the culmination of a lifelong passion. 209 00:11:53,180 --> 00:11:55,522 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Nick Chase spent his whole life almost, 210 00:11:55,523 --> 00:11:59,285 since his 20s, to well into his 60s, collecting dinosaurs here. 211 00:11:59,285 --> 00:12:02,248 Every day he came down and collected and formed a 212 00:12:02,288 --> 00:12:04,670 phenomenal collection which he gave to the museum. 213 00:12:05,510 --> 00:12:09,073 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: And then, that day in 2013, a huge bone was 214 00:12:09,113 --> 00:12:09,854 waiting for him. 215 00:12:10,254 --> 00:12:12,916 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: He was walking along here, he noticed a 216 00:12:12,997 --> 00:12:17,140 huge tibia, maybe a metre long, black dinosaur bone on the 217 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:23,545 beach. So he went up the cliff and quite high up in the cliff 218 00:12:24,186 --> 00:12:28,549 he found another bone sticking out so he alerted the museum. 219 00:12:29,230 --> 00:12:33,113 Luckily I was around at that time so we all came down and 220 00:12:33,173 --> 00:12:34,854 started digging away. 221 00:12:35,315 --> 00:12:37,837 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Then there's several stages of excavation to 222 00:12:37,838 --> 00:12:38,297 go through. 223 00:12:38,298 --> 00:12:40,259 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: So the first thing to do is we remove the 224 00:12:40,399 --> 00:12:46,343 overburden so pickaxes and spades and move all the top away 225 00:12:46,724 --> 00:12:50,707 and then pickaxes and shovels are thrown away and trowels and 226 00:12:51,027 --> 00:12:54,377 knives and smaller instruments are taken out. 227 00:12:54,377 --> 00:12:57,958 And when you start finding bones then you would put something on 228 00:12:57,999 --> 00:13:02,761 top of it like foil and then we would run down to the beach and 229 00:13:02,762 --> 00:13:06,742 get a bucket of water and hessian and put that into 230 00:13:06,802 --> 00:13:11,004 plaster of Paris and start to cover the top of it and then we 231 00:13:11,064 --> 00:13:15,366 dig underneath it and then we can hopefully flip this thing 232 00:13:15,566 --> 00:13:20,688 over onto the hardened plaster put more covering on the the 233 00:13:20,708 --> 00:13:22,950 other side and put more plaster of Paris. 234 00:13:22,950 --> 00:13:26,292 As long as it's four of us we put it in a blanket or something 235 00:13:26,332 --> 00:13:28,794 like that you know and try and struggle up to the top of the 236 00:13:28,814 --> 00:13:32,697 cliff and get to the path and get it down. 237 00:13:32,697 --> 00:13:35,359 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: What the team found and excavated in 2013 was 238 00:13:35,399 --> 00:13:38,601 officially handed over to the museum the Dinosaur Isle Museum 239 00:13:38,621 --> 00:13:41,203 in Sandown, the other side of the island to where we are now. 240 00:13:42,444 --> 00:13:45,366 It, then took them two years to clean all the bones. 241 00:13:45,366 --> 00:13:49,009 There were a lot of them. In fact Nick and the team were to 242 00:13:49,049 --> 00:13:51,791 go on to discover that their dinosaur was the most complete 243 00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:56,194 skeleton found in the UK in 100 years. There were bits missing, 244 00:13:56,434 --> 00:14:00,277 including the top of a tibia. But incredibly, four years after 245 00:14:00,337 --> 00:14:03,619 Nick's original find, Jeremy made his own remarkable 246 00:14:03,659 --> 00:14:04,140 discovery. 247 00:14:05,681 --> 00:14:08,102 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: I was walking along here and found a 248 00:14:08,143 --> 00:14:08,863 top of a tibia. 249 00:14:09,383 --> 00:14:09,844 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: No way 250 00:14:10,184 --> 00:14:12,786 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: And it slotted perfectly in there. 251 00:14:12,787 --> 00:14:15,288 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Wow That must have felt amazing, being able 252 00:14:15,328 --> 00:14:15,448 to... 253 00:14:16,032 --> 00:14:16,853 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Oh it was a nice feeling, 254 00:14:16,854 --> 00:14:18,113 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: That moment of putting the two together. 255 00:14:18,133 --> 00:14:22,095 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: I showed it to Nick and he said I'm sure 256 00:14:22,096 --> 00:14:25,097 that's exactly the right bit that's missing from there and 257 00:14:25,137 --> 00:14:28,239 indeed it did just slot together absolutely perfectly. 258 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,322 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: It was another bit of their Iguanodon but at 259 00:14:33,342 --> 00:14:36,284 this stage Jeremy and the team don't realise they've just dug 260 00:14:36,304 --> 00:14:40,366 up a new species, still to be named by Jeremy as Comptonatus 261 00:14:40,466 --> 00:14:43,868 chasei, a new member of the Iguanodon family. 262 00:14:47,028 --> 00:14:48,709 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: On the island, nearly all the fossils 263 00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:52,771 of dinosaurs you find are from Iguanodontians. They were very 264 00:14:52,831 --> 00:14:56,533 much the major, the dominant group of dinosaurs on the 265 00:14:56,693 --> 00:15:00,856 island. Some people call them the cattle of the Cretaceous, 266 00:15:01,456 --> 00:15:06,559 because they probably went around in herds, because we find 267 00:15:06,619 --> 00:15:09,661 lots of footprints of these, we've got a lot of them on the 268 00:15:09,861 --> 00:15:10,201 island. 269 00:15:10,921 --> 00:15:16,135 And it would seem sensible that for a big animal, I mean 270 00:15:16,135 --> 00:15:19,466 Comptonatus is probably about the size of the American bison. 271 00:15:19,607 --> 00:15:20,307 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Right, wow. ... 272 00:15:20,307 --> 00:15:22,629 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: and where you find cattle and bison and 273 00:15:22,709 --> 00:15:25,811 things like that, they tend to be in herds because it's a good 274 00:15:25,851 --> 00:15:30,094 way of protecting themselves and their young from predators. 275 00:15:30,935 --> 00:15:35,017 One of the markers on them, certainly on more of the later 276 00:15:35,097 --> 00:15:37,939 ones and certainly on Comptonatus, is the thumb 277 00:15:38,019 --> 00:15:38,500 spikes. 278 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,683 So these were these dinosaurs that had thumb spikes, heavy 279 00:15:43,804 --> 00:15:48,695 animals. So if you were wanting to attack an Iguanodontian that 280 00:15:48,735 --> 00:15:52,258 was in a herd, you had to be very careful because, you know, 281 00:15:52,259 --> 00:15:55,500 you could have a whole ton of something charging at you and 282 00:15:55,540 --> 00:15:59,123 maybe several of them at once. So it could have been quite a 283 00:15:59,163 --> 00:15:59,964 dangerous game. 284 00:16:02,205 --> 00:16:04,147 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Finding the most complete dinosaur in 100 285 00:16:04,207 --> 00:16:07,669 years is a pretty good thing to put on your CV. But that's not 286 00:16:07,689 --> 00:16:10,672 the end of the story for this dinosaur because COVID is about 287 00:16:10,673 --> 00:16:11,012 to hit. 288 00:16:11,513 --> 00:16:14,294 And while the country goes into lockdown, Jeremy goes into 289 00:16:14,374 --> 00:16:17,815 self-inflicted solitary confinement at the museum, head 290 00:16:17,895 --> 00:16:22,116 down, poring over countless dinosaur bones. But how long 291 00:16:22,176 --> 00:16:25,237 does it take to discover you've just dug up the bones of a whole 292 00:16:25,277 --> 00:16:26,657 new species of dinosaur? 293 00:16:27,697 --> 00:16:29,138 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Well, there are people out there probably 294 00:16:29,158 --> 00:16:33,099 who could have done it very much more quickly than me. But it 295 00:16:33,139 --> 00:16:38,040 took me the best part of five years to develop the knowledge. 296 00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:41,665 So I started going through Iguanodontian bones in the 297 00:16:41,685 --> 00:16:44,768 collection in the museum, but through other museums, through 298 00:16:44,769 --> 00:16:48,231 the whole of the Natural History Museum, which is looking at 299 00:16:48,351 --> 00:16:52,375 thousands of bones, photographing them, measuring 300 00:16:52,435 --> 00:16:54,356 them, describing them. 301 00:16:54,917 --> 00:16:59,020 So it took me quite a long time to get to the point where I had 302 00:16:59,060 --> 00:17:03,444 that confidence to say, this is different. I've seen enough of 303 00:17:03,484 --> 00:17:07,387 these animals now to know that these are different features on 304 00:17:07,447 --> 00:17:10,101 it. And that allowed me then to... discuss with my 305 00:17:10,181 --> 00:17:14,462 supervisors this and everyone agreed that this was a new 306 00:17:14,522 --> 00:17:14,803 animal. 307 00:17:15,723 --> 00:17:18,364 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: It was an incredible discovery, amazing, 308 00:17:18,764 --> 00:17:22,425 once in a lifetime. But for the man behind it all, it was... 309 00:17:22,545 --> 00:17:24,705 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Something to do during Covid, because a lot 310 00:17:24,706 --> 00:17:27,966 of it's reading, just reading papers, and it's comparing it to 311 00:17:28,046 --> 00:17:31,107 all the other dinosaurs in the world, the Iguanodontians in the 312 00:17:31,147 --> 00:17:33,388 world, so you need a thorough knowledge of that. 313 00:17:33,528 --> 00:17:37,953 So, yes, I think my wife had felt that we were coming to 314 00:17:38,013 --> 00:17:42,554 retire on the Isle of Wight and as we got here we suddenly found 315 00:17:42,555 --> 00:17:45,895 that we're in the midst of an epidemic. I was totally obsessed 316 00:17:45,915 --> 00:17:46,756 with dinosaurs. 317 00:17:47,356 --> 00:17:49,316 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: So this might be a slightly cheeky question 318 00:17:49,416 --> 00:17:53,177 but it sounds like it's a very long and drawn out process with 319 00:17:53,197 --> 00:17:57,519 a lot of kind of staring at probably fairly dry scientific 320 00:17:57,579 --> 00:18:01,700 papers and some very minute bits of bone. Did you not get a 321 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:02,760 little bit bored? 322 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,069 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: No not at all. It just kept me awake at 323 00:18:07,109 --> 00:18:13,111 night that was a problem because if you're trying to define a new 324 00:18:13,191 --> 00:18:17,392 species or look at things it just, you have to be totally 325 00:18:17,432 --> 00:18:21,453 obsessed by it you know it it just takes over your life really 326 00:18:21,553 --> 00:18:26,115 because it's it's a bit like a detective I felt you know you 327 00:18:26,375 --> 00:18:28,915 you know you're looking for clues and things like that and 328 00:18:28,916 --> 00:18:30,856 you sort of wake up in the middle and say oh that that was 329 00:18:30,857 --> 00:18:31,936 a bit different. 330 00:18:31,996 --> 00:18:36,138 And so I found that really exciting. I'm not sure the 331 00:18:36,158 --> 00:18:41,080 people around me found it quite so exciting. I know my wife, you 332 00:18:41,081 --> 00:18:42,381 know you get swear boxes. 333 00:18:42,501 --> 00:18:42,681 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Yeah. 334 00:18:43,181 --> 00:18:46,382 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: And my wife made a box which was talking to 335 00:18:46,402 --> 00:18:51,325 people about dinosaurs and they didn't ask you to. 336 00:18:51,665 --> 00:18:54,466 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Unsolicited dinosaur comments. Yeah. And has 337 00:18:54,506 --> 00:18:55,847 she forgiven you after you... 338 00:18:56,367 --> 00:18:56,947 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: I think so. 339 00:18:58,628 --> 00:19:01,877 Yes, I mean, I could have spent five years and said, no, 340 00:19:01,997 --> 00:19:04,838 everyone was right all along and there's no new species here, you 341 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:07,879 know, which would have been a good scientific result, but not 342 00:19:07,939 --> 00:19:12,060 quite as fun as actually saying, you know, here's a new dinosaur 343 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,681 and that. Yeah, I was just very lucky. 344 00:19:14,281 --> 00:19:16,402 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: But it wasn't just luck behind Jeremy's COVID 345 00:19:16,442 --> 00:19:20,543 discovery. That GP background, the early career specialising in 346 00:19:20,563 --> 00:19:22,443 anatomy and then the PhD. 347 00:19:23,904 --> 00:19:27,265 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: So I chose for my PhD to do taxonomy. 348 00:19:27,585 --> 00:19:27,825 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Right. 349 00:19:27,825 --> 00:19:30,322 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Which is really just looking at hundreds 350 00:19:30,342 --> 00:19:33,623 and hundreds of bones to get a really good feel of what the 351 00:19:33,624 --> 00:19:36,684 variation was in them. And that's when I suddenly started 352 00:19:36,744 --> 00:19:41,005 to find that one had a bulbous nose. You know, well, none of 353 00:19:41,006 --> 00:19:43,986 the others have got a bulbous nose. So this looks pretty 354 00:19:44,366 --> 00:19:47,387 obvious that this is a different animal. And it had quite 355 00:19:47,527 --> 00:19:50,788 numerous other differences as well when we look closely. 356 00:19:52,348 --> 00:19:54,810 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Jeremy's COVID work was, in his own words, 357 00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:58,953 scrutinised by peers and the Natural History Museum, before 358 00:19:58,973 --> 00:20:02,515 he was then able to declare that he had indeed identified a new 359 00:20:02,615 --> 00:20:03,216 species. 360 00:20:05,497 --> 00:20:08,439 There was still the fun bit of naming it, but as we headed back 361 00:20:08,479 --> 00:20:11,041 along the beach, and not forgetting I was on my own side 362 00:20:11,061 --> 00:20:13,843 hustle to find a bit of 120 million year old natural 363 00:20:13,883 --> 00:20:17,266 history, we have one last scramble about. And at the base 364 00:20:17,267 --> 00:20:20,908 of the steps back to the car park, Jeremy spots a clue high 365 00:20:20,909 --> 00:20:21,509 in the cliffs. 366 00:20:22,869 --> 00:20:24,210 Is it that very shallow layer? 367 00:20:24,211 --> 00:20:26,452 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: So we've got our early Cretaceous dinosaur 368 00:20:26,532 --> 00:20:29,954 beds ending, and on top of it there's this gravel, and then 369 00:20:29,994 --> 00:20:32,436 above the gravel, can you see there's a sort of darkish layer 370 00:20:32,496 --> 00:20:35,418 before we get to more modern soil, and it was part of a 371 00:20:35,498 --> 00:20:36,058 woodland. 372 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,261 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Which leads us to look down at our feet. 373 00:20:40,621 --> 00:20:44,304 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: And we do find nuts, hazelnuts. 374 00:20:44,444 --> 00:20:44,984 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Amazing. 375 00:20:45,004 --> 00:20:47,246 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: And they used to be known in early 376 00:20:47,326 --> 00:20:50,588 Georgian times, or even earlier I think, as Noah's nuts, because 377 00:20:50,608 --> 00:20:53,734 people believed this must have been the Great Flood, which you 378 00:20:53,735 --> 00:20:55,135 can perfectly understand. 379 00:20:55,235 --> 00:20:55,715 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Definitely, yeah. 380 00:20:55,755 --> 00:20:58,077 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: There's this layer of woodland below this. 381 00:20:58,617 --> 00:21:02,279 So, there's been a bit of a collapse of it, and if you look 382 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:02,720 in there... 383 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:03,380 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: I was going to say... 384 00:21:03,381 --> 00:21:05,461 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: I'll let you be the first to find one. 385 00:21:10,805 --> 00:21:12,638 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Is that a nut? It's a nut It's a hazelnut Yes. 386 00:21:12,698 --> 00:21:14,119 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Be very careful with them. 387 00:21:15,140 --> 00:21:15,540 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Wow 388 00:21:16,601 --> 00:21:18,002 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: I think there's quite a few of them 389 00:21:18,022 --> 00:21:18,142 though. 390 00:21:18,143 --> 00:21:18,942 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: They're so cool, yeah, look 391 00:21:18,943 --> 00:21:20,343 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: But be gentle with them. They do dry 392 00:21:20,484 --> 00:21:20,704 out. 393 00:21:21,204 --> 00:21:22,285 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Oh, they're really cool. 394 00:21:22,765 --> 00:21:23,145 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: There we go. 395 00:21:23,426 --> 00:21:23,706 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Yeah. 396 00:21:24,406 --> 00:21:26,048 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: And, I mean, sometimes we find little 397 00:21:26,128 --> 00:21:27,248 gnawings in them where... 398 00:21:27,949 --> 00:21:29,110 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: A little ancient mouse. 399 00:21:29,170 --> 00:21:31,071 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: An ancient mouse or something has had a 400 00:21:31,111 --> 00:21:31,412 nibble. 401 00:21:33,553 --> 00:21:35,435 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Oh, well we didn't find dinosaur bones but 402 00:21:35,436 --> 00:21:36,615 we did find Noah's nuts. 403 00:21:36,635 --> 00:21:37,196 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Noah's nuts. 404 00:21:37,197 --> 00:21:38,597 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: That makes me very happy. 405 00:21:46,089 --> 00:21:49,250 With my Noah's nuts gently in my hand and the beach rapidly 406 00:21:49,290 --> 00:21:52,111 disappearing behind us, there's just one more thing to ask 407 00:21:52,171 --> 00:21:55,472 Jeremy. How do you come up with a name for a new species of 408 00:21:55,492 --> 00:21:56,012 dinosaur? 409 00:21:56,013 --> 00:21:58,672 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Well, it's one of the nice bits of 410 00:21:59,153 --> 00:22:00,633 discovering a new species. 411 00:22:01,253 --> 00:22:04,114 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Comptonatus Chasei is the name Jeremy chose. 412 00:22:04,594 --> 00:22:07,775 And as we look back down on Compton Bay, he talks me through 413 00:22:07,815 --> 00:22:09,455 the Comptonatus bit first. 414 00:22:10,556 --> 00:22:13,397 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: I wanted to reflect that it was found on the 415 00:22:13,517 --> 00:22:16,418 Isle of Wight, so I thought Compton sounded a good place to 416 00:22:16,458 --> 00:22:18,479 start. So I had to put something, I couldn't just call 417 00:22:18,499 --> 00:22:21,021 it Compton, it has to have a sort of Latin ending. 418 00:22:21,241 --> 00:22:24,143 So I was thinking of words that might fit with that and there's 419 00:22:24,144 --> 00:22:29,287 that tonere or tonatus in Latin means thundered and I imagine 420 00:22:29,327 --> 00:22:33,089 from all the footprints we're seeing that this animal 421 00:22:33,169 --> 00:22:38,293 Comptonatus was probably was in a herd and if it was spooked or 422 00:22:38,333 --> 00:22:42,075 something like that it probably did thunder through the river 423 00:22:42,116 --> 00:22:47,058 plains of the early Cretaceous. And then Chasei means really 424 00:22:47,438 --> 00:22:49,659 Chase's Compton Thunderer. 425 00:22:50,099 --> 00:22:51,520 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: But there was another reason to go with 426 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,081 Chasei, Jeremy's friend Nick, Nick Chase. 427 00:22:57,202 --> 00:22:59,843 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: Nick spent his whole life in pretty much 428 00:22:59,903 --> 00:23:04,265 with very, very little money. He qualified at the university in a 429 00:23:04,305 --> 00:23:07,606 biological sciences degree and then just spent the rest of his 430 00:23:07,706 --> 00:23:11,588 life going to Compton once or twice a day and collecting 431 00:23:11,988 --> 00:23:16,134 everything and not keeping it himself, but actually putting it 432 00:23:16,154 --> 00:23:18,815 into the museum. I think if someone's found something, it's 433 00:23:18,875 --> 00:23:22,296 nice to name that dinosaur after them, really. 434 00:23:23,237 --> 00:23:25,838 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Nick died of cancer in 2019, just before 435 00:23:25,938 --> 00:23:28,819 Covid swept across the world and Jeremy got his head down at the 436 00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:29,279 museum. 437 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,641 DR JEREMY LOCKWOOD: He was a phenomenal man. I mean, he had a 438 00:23:32,681 --> 00:23:37,643 son, Will, and his sister, Sarah. They were so proud of the 439 00:23:37,683 --> 00:23:41,024 fact that he was such a good collector of dinosaurs and he 440 00:23:41,044 --> 00:23:44,810 was tremendously knowledgeable about them. He did get the Mary 441 00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:47,652 Anning Award from the Paleontological Association, 442 00:23:47,732 --> 00:23:50,614 which is the highest award you could get as an amateur. 443 00:23:51,074 --> 00:23:55,397 But I think it was really the icing on the cake to actually 444 00:23:55,437 --> 00:23:59,720 have a dinosaur named after a man who'd contributed so much to 445 00:23:59,780 --> 00:24:03,763 dinosaur research. Yeah, I think they were very delighted and 446 00:24:03,803 --> 00:24:04,803 proud of him for it. 447 00:24:05,144 --> 00:24:07,806 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: That's lovely. It's been a really, really 448 00:24:07,866 --> 00:24:11,228 wonderful day. So thank you so much for taking the time and 449 00:24:11,229 --> 00:24:11,528 showing us around. 450 00:24:11,529 --> 00:24:12,489 It's been an absolute pleasure. 451 00:24:30,065 --> 00:24:32,727 Thanks for listening to this episode of Wild Tales with me, 452 00:24:32,887 --> 00:24:36,630 Rosie Holdsworth. Why not check out the episode show notes and 453 00:24:36,650 --> 00:24:39,612 I'll leave a link to the beach we went to, where we parked and 454 00:24:39,632 --> 00:24:42,754 where you can see Nick and Jeremy's dinosaur. And you can 455 00:24:42,774 --> 00:24:45,196 find us on Instagram at wildtalesnt. 456 00:24:48,617 --> 00:24:49,459 See you next time.