Megan Riksen (00:16): Hello and welcome to the Work Like a Laker Podcast. I'm Megan Riksen today joined by Grace Joaquin; And we are going to talk today about one of those questions we hear a lot in the Career Center. We tend to have these episodes from time to time where it's a type of career that we hear students kind of mentioning and, but also might not, have a clue how to do that. So we hear, "I don't want a desk job" or "I want to work outside". So today we thought we would chat about those types of jobs and careers that spend a large part of their workday outside. Even though according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, nearly half of all jobs require some outdoor work. We're really gonna focus in on the positions that the majority of your time would actually be outside and then stay tuned later in the episode for our interview with someone who does work outside. So, Grace, do you wanna kick us off by maybe just talking about some of the benefits of working outside? Grace Joaquin (01:19): Yes. So some of these are pretty self-explanatory but the first is improved mental health. You know, they've done studies, I think about working in nature and how that can improve mental health. We've also got physical health benefits, increased productivity and creativity, and then working outside can also give people a chance to appreciate and protect nature, or have a positive impact on the environment in the community. So all great positives about working outside. Megan Riksen (01:44): Yeah. All good things. Just like being outside for pleasure. You're getting a lot of those benefits if you spend even more of your time outside. Grace Joaquin (01:51): Exactly. Megan Riksen (01:51): Perfect, of course there are also a few challenges and considerations we wanna mention. You know, we live in Michigan and the weather is something; where the different conditions are going to affect obviously what your work environment is like. If you go into an office every day, you know, you got about 70 degrees, it's gonna be the same, right? If you're outside, you've got a lot of other factors. So that could also mean there might be some additional safety concerns. It could mean that your schedule is a little bit different than more of that like standard nine to five, Monday through Friday; Could include some holidays, weekends, getting up and working before the sun is up if you're, you know, doing something that is gonna be a hot project and some outdoor jobs are seasonal, especially in a place like Michigan where yeah, the seasons are very different and will require different types of roles outside. Grace Joaquin (02:50): Megan, did you ever wanna work outside? Megan Riksen (02:52): Not really. I don't think that was ever a real goal of mine and now I definitely don't; preparing for this episode, I was thinking like, do we ever have to actually work outside? And I think it's always just a choice if we, you know, bring our laptops outside or something. Grace Joaquin (03:08): Right. We do like the one community service day a year where sometimes we'll be outside, but that's pretty much the only time that we're, the extent walking around on campus. Megan Riksen (03:16): That's true and in a bigger campus. You're outside dealing with the conditions. Right. Grace Joaquin (03:24): But I also am with you and I like being outside, but just by choice and not necessarily for day-to-day. Megan Riksen (03:32): Awesome. Okay, so we are gonna quick take a look at a variety of industry sectors that have occupations that work outdoors that might align with some of our majors here at GVSU; And we wanna share some sample job titles because I think that can be really helpful to kind of open up everybody's mind to see. Yeah, it's not just necessarily kind of, you know, work for the DNR or something, right. That you might think about. Grace Joaquin (03:55): Exactly. Yeah. There's a lot of options and first we're gonna talk about the industry sector, which is agriculture, forestry, fishing, and aquatics and this ties into our guests that we'll have later in the episode. So stay tuned if you're interested in that. The majors that can align with this industry are natural resource management, biology, environmental sciences, chemistry and then, you know, there's a few job titles too, just as an example, just as those majors are an example too because there's a lot of majors that probably could also fit into this; But some job titles are water and soil quality monitor, GVSU has the Annis Water institution, then we have trail restoration workers, students can find jobs or internships at Student Conservation Association, and then we have conservation scientists as another. There are GIS surveyors, which you can take courses at Grand Valley for GIS. It's a really great, I think, area to get into if you're interested in outdoor work. We have fisheries technician and then finally wildlife monitoring, and again, these are just examples. These majors have the most opportunities to be outside if we're looking at the ones that are available at Grand Valley, the majors. Megan Riksen (05:13): Right. For sure. All right. So the next industry is the mining, oil, gas, and energy industry, which might align with majors like geology, biology, again, natural resources management, geography, engineering, and these types of job titles. Could be chemical engineer, petroleum geologist, a well-tester, a solar field land manager. So a lot of, you know, truly unique job titles. That certainly, you know, you think about a chemical engineer, for example, there could be some work outside, but likely it's going to be a mix and you know, if you're interested in this role, it's just probably good to think, "yeah, I definitely want something where 80% of my time is outside", but maybe you'd be happy with 20%? Right? So again, it just kind of comes down to a theme we come back to a lot in the Work Like a Laker podcast is: what are your values overall in terms of your environment and what you want out of your career. Grace Joaquin (06:17): I think the ones Megan just talked about and then all the rest of the ones are jobs I wouldn't always necessarily think about being outside. Megan Riksen (06:25): That's true. Grace Joaquin (06:25): And so it's kind of fun to think about the possibilities and so, you know, if you're thinking, oh, if I have to work outside, I have to be in the field of biology or X, Y, Z. Grace Joaquin (06:34): We're gonna give you some options that don't fall into that, and so this next one is a great example, which is the industry of leisure and hospitality. As far as majors at Grand Valley, we have the HTM major and recreation majors, and then some job titles you might get in this field, which again, like it's just fun to think about because I wouldn't automatically connect being outdoors, but it totally makes sense. It would be like a wedding or event coordinator, outdoor adventure guide, which like yes, that would be outdoors. Grace Joaquin (07:04): Resort activity planner and then retreat facilitator are some ideas there. Megan Riksen (07:09): Yeah and that's a night and day different industry. From , the two previous ones that you mentioned. Different skill sets. Megan Riksen (07:19): Another one that I don't think we really consider when we think about working outside would be healthcare and emergency services. So that that's, you know, your paramedics, your PTs, your occupational therapists, athletic trainers, health coaches, police officers, these are all roles where depending on the day and what you have going on and who you're meeting with or who you're serving, you might be outside serving that population that you might then bring them to a hospital or bring something into a lab later or whatever it may be; But yeah, that's definitely one that really does not stay at the top of my mind when I think about working outside. Grace Joaquin (08:02): Right and we have a previous episode where we talk to an alum named Mallory who talks about her job in criminal forensics and she talked about like the people who will be on the scene taking photographs and all of that; And yeah, a lot of that I'm sure is outdoor for sure. You get to have that little bit of nature in your role. Another area is education. So there, you know, and with education as far as majors are concerned, there are so many different majors that can provide educational support in the outdoor environment. So I'm not gonna list all of them, but in this field, some job titles would be a teacher specifically in subjects like PE, biology, ecology, botany. I will say when I was an elementary teacher, of course we went outside sometimes too, a lot of elementary teachers specifically will go outside once a day for recess to monitor. So it depends what school you're at, but like definitely that is part of it. Another one is environmental educator. You could be a park ranger, you could do community outreach. Another is historical and cultural preservation. So like this could be a good fit for history majors or anthropology majors. Megan Riksen (09:06): Right. Again, that's definitely an area you would think, oh, you're gonna be in a museum. Grace Joaquin (09:11): I have a friend who worked at, in Holland at, I forget the exact name, but it's like a nature preserve in Holland and she would teach classes outdoors and they would come, they do like a maple syrup and stuff. Yes. And it was a great job. She loved it a lot and got to be outside. Megan Riksen (09:25): I feel like there are a lot of education, like more traditional like K12 education experiences now where maybe from like kindergarten through third grade, your classroom is outside. Grace Joaquin (09:35): The zoo has one, Blackford Nature Center has one, yeah, there's a lot. Megan Riksen (09:39): So I think a lot of people are seeing the value in being outside and making that happen maybe in a less traditional way than we imagined for the history of the world work in a way. Grace Joaquin (09:50): Yeah. Megan Riksen (09:51): Awesome. Okay. Creative arts then would be the next industry. This would be photographers, film and video production crews, musicians. I think we can all imagine where we've either seen people actively doing those things outside, you know, going to a concert or going to a wedding. Right, these are all things that could definitely take place outside. Grace Joaquin (10:13): Yeah, and then our final group is sales, marketing and business, which again, I'm gonna think office probably. Right? I'm gonna think that initially, but think about, you know, a field sales representative, a real estate agent, social media content developer, product brand promotion, sports industry. There's actually a lot of opportunities when you think about it that way. Megan Riksen (10:36): It could be a lot of time spent outside. Grace Joaquin (10:37): Exactly. Megan Riksen (10:38): Commuting between different things and getting content or whatever. Grace Joaquin (10:42): Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, I think again, it doesn't mean you have to be like deep in the woods, right? To have a job where you're working outside. Now to talk more about working in agriculture, forestry fishing aquatics is Leah Wilson at the Robert B. Annis Water Resources Institute. Hi Leah. How are you? Leah Wilson (11:02): Good, how are you? Grace Joaquin (11:02): I'm doing well. Thank you so much for joining us today. Leah Wilson (11:05): Thank you for having me. Grace Joaquin (11:06): So my first question is just can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Leah Wilson (11:10): Yeah, so I actually graduated from Grand Valley in 2023 I started in 2019. Yeah, I went there for undergrad. I majored in biology and then I minored in chemistry. That is not what I came in as so don't feel bad if you change your major like seven times because I definitely did. But yeah. I started with that major and minor finished up with it and then I ended up at a AWRI kind of through Happenstance. Grace Joaquin (11:42): Okay. Grace Joaquin (11:45): Just curious, what was your initial pull to biology? Like, was there a specific career path you were thinking originally? Leah Wilson (11:52): I knew I wanted to do something in science but I wasn't exactly sure what. So, that's kind of the reason I came to Grand Valley. I was between a few different places, but Grand Valley had the most the widest amount of choices. Like if I picked a certain science and didn't like it, which I did, I picked bio med first and found that wasn't really what I was wanting to go into because I didn't really wanna be a doctor or go to med school or anything. So then I switched to biology and it was essentially the same program but it worked out. But yeah, I always knew I wanted to do something in science kind of from high school. Grace Joaquin (12:32): Oh, awesome. And you mentioned the Happenstance piece, so can you explain more about that? How did you get connected? Leah Wilson (12:37): Yeah, so it's kind of funny. My first like kind of sciencey, like in the field job was through the biology department here, I was a laboratory prep assistant under Diane Laughlin. She was the lab supervisor and funny enough, I worked there for like three years and didn't really, I had heard people talk about AWRI because a lot of people don't realize it's part of Grand Valley and it's really kind of our research like campus in Muskegon, and there's a bit of difficulty because there's not, you know, direct, there's not a direct pathway to get out there for students. So they're trying to work on that, you know, get access kind of to be a little bit better for students because a lot of students don't know about it and it's a gold mine for research experience, at least if you're looking for experience in life sciences. Leah Wilson (13:32): I kind of, so I was working in the bio department for like three years and Diane's partner was the interim director at AWRI for a while and I didn't really know like anything about it. I knew she would go out there, she'd say like, "oh, I'm not gonna be here today. I'm gonna be at AWRI in Muskegon". Like, and I'm like, okay, well she's going out there to do stuff and I know that's a Grand Valley place, but I, even in the bio department, I didn't know anything about it and it's, you know, most of the professors are out there are like fisheries and aquatic science related or, you know, like limnology, like the study of lakes or, you know, freshwater sciences. So it was kind of surprising that I didn't know about it. But a friend that I was working with there was like, "Hey, they have, you know, two openings, do you wanna apply?" And this was right before I graduated and I was like, sure. Grace Joaquin (14:22): And these were full-time positions? Leah Wilson (14:24): Yes, and they were just laboratory technician positions in a couple of the different labs out there and so I applied and that's how I got the job. Then, you know, I went there and it was like, how did I not know about this? This is crazy. Grace Joaquin (14:40): I know. I just visited it the first time myself last summer and it's beautiful out there. Leah Wilson (14:46): It is beautiful. Grace Joaquin (14:47): It's such a cool location. I recommend all students to check out even if you're not, you know, wanting to go into that field. But it's a really nice location. So can you talk more about what, you mentioned you're a lab tech, can you give some more detail about what you do as a lab technician at the AWRI? Is that how? Leah Wilson (15:05): Yep. Grace Joaquin (15:06): Yeah. The lingo Leah Wilson (15:08): Yeah. So it's kind of super cool. There's a lot of differences between like the types of lab techs you could be. I kind of had the idea of going into like industry as a lab tech and though I haven't, I can't really truly speak on that because I haven't actually been in industry. That's typically where you kind of seem to find you're kind of doing, you know, the same things day in and day out. You can't really necessarily like stray too much from your, you know, standard operating procedures. You're kind of following the same guidelines all the time. Which I thought is what I would wanna do. That was I had no interest in going kind of like the academic route until I got the job. And then, so that's kind of the beauty of AWRI as a lab tech. Leah Wilson (15:59): You have like the whole academia, you know, piece involved with it, which really allows for a lot of, I think, personal and professional growth in terms of you get to try so many new things. Like it's not just like you're stuck on one project all the time and that's what you do day in and day out. I was on like three major projects that we're all very, very different but we'd still have like random projects sprinkled in. Like, I got to learn how to kind of use Canva and design little handouts to hand to people when we were out in the field and they had questions or you know, we got to go to different academic and, you know, non-academic conferences and speaking at conferences, which was a really cool experience. Grace Joaquin (16:46): Being on a podcast. Leah Wilson (16:48): Like that's, I've never gotten to do that before. So yeah, it's, it's had a lot of really cool different experiences that I didn't think I would get and I don't really think you have as much of a chance of getting if you're not in academia. Grace Joaquin (17:01): Well, and speaking of the variation when I think of a lab tech, I think of someone with like a coat on working in a lab, are you ever able to go outside? Like what does your kind of day-to-day look like in that sense? Leah Wilson (17:15): Well, because of the variation, the day-to-day could look very different. Depending on, I feel like it mostly for like my lab and I can't speak for all of them because there are, at my place of work, there's multiple labs with multiple PIs with all sorts of different projects. But in my lab it was kind of different depending on the season if you would, so during the year it kind of, things kind of slowed down a little bit. That was when we would be doing the most of the, you know, like scientists from the movies type thing. Like wearing the lab coat. A lot of different PPE because one of the labs that I did the majority of my work in was a biosafety level two lab, so you have to like, it's kind of like the whole like hazmat type deal. Leah Wilson (18:03): To keep yourself safe, which is important. But when the summer came around in the fall, we got to do field work, which was super great. My favorite project that we did was the beach monitoring and I'm currently doing that now. I've had the chance to become the field lead this summer and lead the team that's doing that, which is super cool. There's also leadership opportunities. Yeah. but basically we get a list of beaches each year that we have agreed with, you know, several government entities to monitor for E.coli levels and harmful algal blooms. So we go out and like on Mondays we do nine different beaches throughout Muskegon County, which are both Inland Lake and Lake Michigan beaches, we'll monitor those for those two parameters. And then on Tuesdays we do eight more. Grace Joaquin (18:57): It sounds like I have you to thank for last summer, we went, I met my family at a lake and they wouldn't let us swim because there was like harmful levels I think of... Leah Wilson (19:05): If it was in Muskegon or part of Ottawa County, then probably. Grace Joaquin (19:08): It was Ottawa. Leah Wilson (19:09): Yeah. I mean, if it was Hoffmaster, yes. Grace Joaquin (19:12): Oh, okay. It wasn't, but I mean, maybe it still is, but if not you then someone with a similar role probably. Leah Wilson (19:18): Yeah, there's it's pretty cool. Like that's kind of, it kind of like comes in with the whole variance thing. Like even though it's an academic lab, most of the work that I've done has been in collaboration with like the public health department in Muskegon County or Ottawa County, or we have different watershed management groups that are from all over the state that contact us. We've even had some people from like Illinois contact us for some work. So even though it's academic based, it's kind of like a contract lab as well. Grace Joaquin (19:51): Okay, and how do you, like, was working outside something you always wanted to do? And whether yes or no, how do you feel about working outside? Leah Wilson (19:59): So it was not. I love the outdoors. I'm a crazy, like, I get weird if I don't get outside at least once a day, but I was not thinking that I would want to do something outside because field work can be very intense and strenuous. Depending on what you're doing. Like some of the labs have field work where they're gone for, you know, a week upstate and they're, or they're, you know, on Lake Erie or something like doing fish monitoring for like a week and you're like, that's kind of a lot. It wasn't really something I was looking for and I didn't want my like, love of nature to turn into a job. Grace Joaquin (20:39): Right. Leah Wilson (20:41): Then when I, you know, signed my contract to work for the lab that I'm in, I'm like, okay, well it looks like I'm gonna be doing mostly lab work and this lab work is like exactly what I wanna do. So that's cool. Then there's this little field work piece, but it's only for 10 weeks in the summer like, that's not that big of a deal like, I can make that work and it seems like a pretty sweet deal. I mean, you don't have to pay me to go to the beach. I like, I love it. It's like the dream job, but you know, when I was signing it, I'm like, okay. Like, we'll, you know, we'll see what happens and it's not a huge part of the job, so that should be okay and then we got to that first field season and it is my favorite part of the job. Oh, I love it. It's so much fun. Grace Joaquin (21:23): I mean, it sounds amazing and it's probably, I'm sure every job differs too with like whether or not you have to go out on off seasons or, you know, so like. Leah Wilson (21:33): It's, yeah. Some do, some are out in the winter. Like that's kind of why I didn't want to, is like, oh, I don't wanna go out in the, I love the winter. I don't wanna go out in the winter and be freezing cold every day or be soaking wet all the time, but it's... Grace Joaquin (21:44): Which is fair. Leah Wilson (21:45): Which that does happen, like still does. I mean, we go out rain or shine. Yeah, that's true, and summer or very hot. I mean, it's been pretty hot this week and we were out there running on the beaches and like, it's, that's another thing I really like about it, is it's very, like ours, ours is very physical, but it's not like we're carrying like 50 pounds of equipment with us. So that's like a blessing and it's awesome because we basically like run on the beach and we go to like eight or nine different beaches a day. So it's really, it gets you in really good shape. Grace Joaquin (22:16): And are you doing that all day long? Like, are you outside all day? Leah Wilson (22:22): No, we, it kind of depends on the, usually no, but it kind of depends on the day. Sometimes like if there's like a storm or something, you might go out later and have to stay out later but usually it's at least half the day. Maybe, maybe like, I'd say like four to six hours depending on the day. Grace Joaquin (22:40): Okay. I mean, that's a good chunk of time. Leah Wilson (22:42): Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's great. Grace Joaquin (22:44): Is there anything else you wanna share about working outside? Like any, like what you love most, what you like least with your experiences so far? Leah Wilson (22:52): Yeah. Well I guess I've kind of highlighted what I like most about it. Like it's great for you physically, mentally, it's beautiful. I mean, most of our sites are on Lake Michigan, so you kind of get a good idea of like, these are the best beaches to go to in the summer. Like these ones are the least crowded, this one's the cleanest. Like, well, Grace Joaquin (23:12): We'll just have to talk after. Leah Wilson (23:13): It's gorgeous, but it's super fun for that reason and you see a lot of animals, but some of the tougher parts are like, we've lucked out, knock on wood this year with the weather it hasn't been too bad, but last year when we would go out at least one crew per week would get like soaked with rain, you know, that's aside from, you're already getting pretty wet with the waves. Grace Joaquin (23:37): Right. Leah Wilson (23:39): So there's that. Then some of the beaches, you know, if they're not clean, then you're the guy that's going thigh deep and elbow deep to get your sample in it. You know, like when, when they're posting those advisories, it's because we went very deep in those at least not like head under, but you get dirty sometimes. Then there is a bit of public like interaction. Like a lot of times people will ask what we're doing or what we're sampling with, and most of the time it's great. Like they're super curious and it's awesome. I love talking to the people and telling them about it because they usually wanna know and they should know, you know, they're swimming. But sometimes people are a little, they have different opinions on it, you know, they don't think we should be out there, but, so that can be kind of difficult to navigate sometimes . Then I guess lastly the hours can be kind of strange sometimes. Like if there's a really bad thunderstorm in the morning, but it's supposed to subside within like an hour or two, like we've had to wait like, and had like a two hour, like, storm delay before. So that will delay like sometimes if you don't get started until 10 and you've got nine beaches to run, like you're not back until pretty late. Sometimes with the sample processing, like that can get, it's not exactly like nine to five all the time. Grace Joaquin (25:08): Okay. Yeah and that's nice for people to know because I feel like that's definitely something people have to consider. Leah Wilson (25:13): Yeah. I mean, I think that if you're looking to do field work, I would not really consider, like, you're not gonna have a nine to five job. Grace Joaquin (25:22): Right, at least not major or not every day. Leah Wilson (25:24): Yeah. I would even say I would stretch that to like the whole academia lab sphere. I don't really, like, my job was not always nine to five. Sometimes like when there was like a really bad storm, we had like a week off of work, but like, because of the snow was so bad but sometimes you have to stay late to finish a project. Or a lot of our, the stuff that I didn't do that was outside was very, very time sensitive. Grace Joaquin (25:51): So you had to finish it? Leah Wilson (25:52): Yes, like if there was some delay, like it had to be done, like by the time we got samples in we had 48 hours to get results out to the state. Grace Joaquin (26:01): Oh my goodness. Leah Wilson (26:02): So it was, I mean, it was fine, but we had a, we were rocking and rolling with it. Grace Joaquin (26:07): That's definitely what I would say working in my section of academia, right. Where it's like you just have your busy times where sometimes you're working, you're doing a presentation after hours or you're doing having an event or whatever, but yeah, not quite the same as you. Mine is more predictable, I think but yeah, I mean, I think, but like you said, it probably adds to that variety piece that you like. Leah Wilson (26:27): Yes. Grace Joaquin (26:27): So it's kind of like the pros and cons, right? Leah Wilson (26:29): Yeah, right. It was kind of cool. We would have like a busy season and a kind of more chill season where sometimes we would like leave early if there wasn't anything to do or, you know, you get to do like a more fun task or like if there's a cool festival happening downtown, like we would go to that, like if we had some downtime. It's just very variable, but that is like, kind of for me- perfect- I can't be doing the same thing everyday, so I would definitely recommend it. You know, it really opened a lot of opportunities for me and like everybody else who works there kind of says the same thing. Everybody's always willing to teach you new things. If you're interested in what another lab is doing, they'll teach you. They'll bring you along if they're doing field work. It's really great. Grace Joaquin (27:11): Well, thank you so much. This was very helpful. Again, this was Leah Wilson and she works at the Robert B. Annis Water Resources Institute. Megan Riksen (27:21): All right. So that concludes our episode for today. Hopefully we give you lots of ideas for all the many opportunities you have to avoid being stuck at a desk all day. So definitely, you know, explore Grand Valley majors, explore the careers that are connected with that, and you know who to come to if you want to dig even deeper. The Career Center is always available for you, and we actually do have lots of fairs and events and opportunities to speak with alumni and employers who may have roles where some of their work involves being outside. So definitely take advantage of getting to talk to all the great people who come to our campus and all of our great alumni out there in the field. If you find yourself in a job that you are inside all day, maybe just, you know, take your lunch break outside. I will do that, go on a walk, recharge. These are other great ways to incorporate the great outdoors into your work. So thank you so much to everyone for listening, and we hope you tune into a future episode soon.