>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s and I used to live

in a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect

on what's happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you to take a moment to

stop and think about where you are, where you're

going, and where your relationship with God fits

into it all. Every week I meet a new guest who

tells me about something they experienced which

changed their life forever. By talking about the

things they wish they'd known, we'll explore the

idea that God is in all things. And we'll talk

about the part that faith plays in navigating

life's challenges.

Today I'm speaking to Pippa. Pippa works as a lay

missionary in the Catholic Church. Today she's

speaking about turning 30 and how she spent her

20s trusting God. But sometimes her expectations

and God's expectations, expectations were a bit

different. In this conversation, Pippa speaks

about what giving up a career in advertising and

becoming a lay missionary actually means. So

Pippa, what was life like for you in your 20s?

>> Pippa: In my 20s, great question. So my 20s was a

wonderful decade of my life. It was a real

adventure with God. I moved to London, when I was

21. I graduated when I was 21. I did a short stint

in America. And before that point I had always

anticipated that I would be an actress. That was

always my desire. I had kind of gone to university

to study drama. And, I had this profound and life

changing encounter with God when I was 19. Really,

it changed the course and the direction of my

life. And it meant that my twenties particularly

were dedicated to following and pursuing Jesus,

putting my faith at the centre of my, of my life.

So I moved to London when I was 21 and by that,

point I'd done, a lot of praying, a lot of seeking

of, okay, what's this acting thing look like? Do I

really want this? Is this what God wants for me?

And, I found that my desires for acting were

changing a bit. And actually I could see myself

doing other things. And in the acting world, if

you can see yourself doing other things, you

should do other things because it's quite, it's

quite a gruelling industry. And, but I then got a

job in the advertising industry. So I worked in

advertising from the age of 21 until I was 27. so

six and a half years. And it was an amazing,

amazing time. I I loved working in that industry.

It was very fast paced, very creative, strategic,

worked with some brilliant people. I learned a lot

about myself, about how to lead, about how to lead

others, how to lead myself. And the working world,

it really suited me. I loved it. But also

alongside that I also moved into like a house with

other Catholics when I was 23. And that was

amazing. And that was again it was very much a

decision for me. I knew I wanted to grow in my

faith. I knew I wanted to walk my days alongside

other people who were putting Jesus first. And so

we moved into this community with a small C, like

a community house. And over that time we were all

working professionals and we would get up every

morning and we would do morning prayer together

and from either, either at 6am or 6:30 for half an

hour. And then we would do our personal prayer and

then I would, I'd go into the office, I'd do the

commute and we lived this amazing life trying to

live a life of prayer and hospitality together

whilst pursuing our careers in in the centre of

London.

>> Julia: So what made you decide to leave advertising then?

>> Pippa: It was a big decision and alongside my advertising

career I was doing a lot in the church world, in

church ministry. So I had. I lived in this house

with my friends. We ran a worship night, brought

hundreds of people. Not every week, but over the

course of the five years we ran it, it brought

hundreds of people into our home to worship Jesus.

I was mentoring younger women. I was leading a

conference for young Catholics. I was heading up

One Hope project and I started to speak at more

conferences. So I was doing a lot. My life was

kind of saturated, which is often the case in your

20s. And I wouldn't have had it any other way. It

was amazing. It was such an adventure. But I

noticed more and more that God was speaking to me

about putting my time, my resources, my life and

my love into working for the church. And I, I

simply noticed this because I was dreaming more

and more about how I could preach the word of God

with greater, with greater zeal. And I was

thinking about how can I lead this conference for

young Catholics? with humility and grace and

purpose. I was thinking about my church ministry

more than I was thinking about my advertising job.

And really my advertising job. If you were to put

it on paper, it was kind of like dream job in some

ways. I, The last client I managed was the

Cadbury's account. And I had, I worked with some

incredible pieces of business. but really, as I

started to kind of of pray and track through my

life, I thought, hm, I, I sense that, I have this

passion I feel in my heart for Jesus. I want to

see that invested in the church. And, so then I

went into a period of discernment. And as a Jesuit

podcast, you'll know the process of discernment is

so important. I believe this wholeheartedly. I

really believe so much in really seeking and it's

then when we'll really find. And, yes, that

discernment period, started. And Yeah, I mean, I

can tell you a little bit more about that if.

>> Julia: Yeah, please do.

>> Pippa: Yeah, I think I, I think something that I sent. So

I really started to pray. Lord, what. What is it

that you desire for me? What is it that you've

created me for? This is what we read in the Word

of God that God has created for us. Work,

specifically, you know, and say, John Henry Newman

says this so beautifully. I have been created for

a purpose, and it is mine and unique and, and mine

alone. And so I, I went and I did a Ignatian

retreat and I started to pray about my life. I

started to think about, okay, if it is

advertising. I know that my life has kind of

reached saturation point. I can't carry on with as

much as I'm doing. So I started to imagine with

God what it would look like to give up the church

work and just for the advertising industry to be

my mission field. And I tracked with the Holy

Spirit, how does that make me? Does that make my

heart sing? Does that make me come alive? Because

I believe that's what God wants for us and is us

to come alive. And then I started to pray about,

okay, well, what would it look like to give up my

job? I knew that God wasn't calling me to a

particular job that existed within the Catholic

Church. So it wasn't like applying to, a diocese,

although that's obviously a wonderful option. But,

that's not what I sense God was having for me. So

I started to think, okay, what would it look like

for me to create a job with God and I'd have to

fundraise my salary. And I started to look because

God wants us to work within reality. We can't

discern between two things that aren't real. We

have to discern between two real options. And so I

started to consider the reality of, giving up my

job and fundraising my salary and frankly, when I

started to pray about, doing that, I experienced a

wellspring of life in my heart and my soul. I knew

I had to do it. I knew I had to do it.

>> Julia: Yeah, I remember meeting you at that time and you

going to me, Julia, I'm going to be a missionary.

And I was like, great. But how does that become a

reality?

>> Pippa: Yeah, Well, I think firstly, the reality is that I

heard God's call. I heard God's call. And this

call isn't like, a call from the sky in which we

respond as robots. I think sometimes when we think

about discernment, we so long to be robots, we

want God to shout from the sky, this is what you

should do. And we just obey. And this is mainly

rooted in the fact that we're afraid of missing

God's will. That's really if we were to, to put it

plainly, we're afraid, like, what if I miss it,

God? And, with. So therefore we want it to be

easy. We want God to shout it from the rooftops.

We know what he's asking. And then we'll just do

it. And then we'll be 10 out of 10 Catholics. But

God doesn't work like that. We're not robots.

we're not called to also apply just our own

thinking, our own human thinking, because God

calls us to live supernatural lives which goes

beyond our thinking. What I discovered was the

call. And discovering the call of God is entirely

relational. It's relational, it's relationship.

It's me and him in this relationship of love,

praying and discerning what we want to do

together. So firstly, I heard the call and I had

to take time to really hear that call. And then I

set about with the help, of the Holy Spirit, to,

to pray about what this actually would look like.

So I knew that my mission had three key emphases

that I, my heart was breaking for. And that's

another thing. When we're discerning God's will,

what does your heart break for? What do you, what

do. What are you passionate about? What are you

longing for? For me, there were three things.

Firstly, young people. I am passionate about the

young people of our church being filled with the

spirit and sent out on mission to know that they

really do have a place in our church and that, God

wants to use them. So young people.

I knew my mission would be investing primarily in

young people. Not exclusively, but young people.

Prayer and worship. I'm passionate about

worshipping God. I'm passionate about praying

myself and teaching Others to pray. And that's

where my work with One Hope Project came in. And

then unity, expanding the kingdom of God in unity

with my brothers and sisters across denomination.

That was something that is deep in my heart. So I

basically wrote down my vision for this mission

and I put it in a letter. Letter. I said, this is

what I feel God is asking me to do and will you

back me? And I sent 250 letters and I said, yeah,

will you do it? And some people responded and

said, yes, we'd love to give you money every

month. Other people said, we can't give

financially but we'll pray for you, which is

supercharges everything. And others said, you're

crazy. What are you doing, you fool. But, this is

the reason why I believe that the discernment

process is so important. And this goes across the

board. When we're discerning, when we know when

we've given time for God to speak, when we've

really searched our hearts and we sense that God

is calling us to something, it's from there. It

doesn't matter what happens after that point. No

matter how many people say to you, you're crazy,

what are you doing? You're a fool, we can say, I

am confident that Christ has called me to this and

it helps us through the battle. It helps us

through the battle of doubt and self doubt I think

as well. So, yeah, so that's basically what I did

back in 2017 and I have been able to live that way

for.

Well, where are we now? Almost nine years. Praise

God.

>> Julia: So what does that missionary work look like for

you now, nine years later?

>> Pippa: it looks like overseeing One Hope Project. One

Hope Project is a worship collective and we write

and record worship music and we lead worship all

over the uk and also we oversee and run a, six

month online worship school for anybody that wants

to grow as a music minister, as someone who is

invested in music or worship in their local

context. And this is something I'd been dreaming

about for a long time. And we literally just this

week graduated off fifth school, our fifth cohort.

God has just done amazing things with that. And

we've had over 100 students from 13 different

nations and we've just launched it in the Polish

language and God has just got his hand on it and I

feel so grateful for that. So One Hope Project is

a big part of my mission. I, I go all over the

country, ah, speaking at different events, doing

things like this, and then I also invest my time

in like One to one, mentoring particularly of

younger women, to help them grow as disciples, to

help them access their hearts where the Lord

lives, to help them grow in their prayer lives.

And and I also do work in Sheffield where I live a

ah, mission to young adults up here. So it keeps

me busy.

>> Julia: Plenty going on, that's what.

>> Pippa: Yes.

>> Julia: So going back to your 20s, if somebody had told

you this is what you were going to be doing now,

would you have like had any idea that this is what

it would have grown into?

>> Pippa: Um, well, no. God gives us more, more than we can

even begin to imagine. And it moves me when I

think about how good our God is. he has given me

more than I could even imagine. Now if you'd also

have told me in my 20s, it's important to say this

one that I would have waited until I was 34 to get

married. That one would have blown my mind as

well. I, I certainly, I suppose we've concentrated

a lot on my mission, my work thus far, but I guess

a big part of your 20s, sometimes earlier for some

people, sometimes slightly later. But it is

definitely thinking about your state of life

vocation and that was a big part of my, my journey

with Jesus. I, I knew after my big conversion

experience at 19 that God reordered my life and he

put him number one. And so it meant that my

desires were rooted in wanting what God had for

me. So there's no denying about that. I knew I

wanted what God wanted. But disc. That was at

times very challenging. It required a lot of

waiting, it required a lot of pain. I, yeah, I

was, I was single from the ages of 25 to 29. Yeah,

29, I was single. And over that time that was when

I really started to consider, hm, What is my state

of life vocation. I had kind of always assumed it

was marriage. because I mean that's very natural,

isn't it? Marriage is a natural vocation. It's

the, the call of most Catholics is to is to

marriage. And I suppose it always felt quite

natural to me that I would. But when I was 25, I

kind of started to run harder after Jesus, I

suppose, if you could put it in that way. And so I

started to really consider, is marriage what you

want from me, Lord? And that was a real journey

for me.

>> Julia: You preempted my question because I was going to

ask you next, what were your expectations of being

30 when you were in your 20s?

>> Pippa: Yeah, expectations are a funny thing, aren't they,

Yes, I think if you'd have asked me when I was 21,

will you be married by 30? I thought, yeah,

probably. I'm not really a kind of goal orientated

person, which is probably counterintuitive to

this, to this lovely podcast. But I, for me it

really was just about following the Lord and, and,

and living this life with Him. But that being

said, I probably thought, yes, I probably will be

married by the age of 30. I probably have, by

God's grace, I probably will have children now.

what was interesting was When I was 33, I was in a

relationship and I knew in my heart of hearts he

was a wonderful man and he was a good Catholic

man. But I knew in my heart of hearts that this

wasn't, this wasn't the man I was going to marry.

And it was very, very, very difficult to come to

that conclusion. But, I knew I had to be brave. I

knew that I had to pay attention to the lack of

rest I experienced in my heart. And so at the age

of 33, I was single. I went from being in a

relationship from 30 to 33 and then I knew like,

gosh, this is, this isn't the one that God has for

me. And so I went into a period of singleness. And

that was really difficult. That was really

difficult.

Talk about expectations. If you'd have told me,

would you be expected to be, would you expect to

be, single at 33? no, I suppose not. But our

expectations sometimes aren't in line with God's

dreams for us.

>> Julia: That was a really powerful reminder as well. Like,

I think I have quite a few conversations with

people who are in their 20s, quite worried about

turning 30. And I think it's because there is this

expectation by 30 you'll have your life together

and you'll have, like, if you're going to get

married, you'll be married. But actually I think

most people these days don't, don't get married

till they're 30, in, in their 30s anyway. But it's

just like you'll have your career, you'll have

your, you'll be married, you'll have whatever's

going to happen. And it, but that's not actually

reality for most people, but it's such a pressure

around it as well.

>> Pippa: There is a lot of pressure and actually, sometimes

that pressure sadly exists most loudly within the

church. Most loudly within, oh, you haven't

discovered your vocation yet. I, I so believe that

life with God isn't about fitting the status quo.

And you Know our status quo so often is, is a

result of social constructs. Anyway, you must have

done it this by this age. You must be married by

this age, you must be have 2.5 children by this

age, you must have bought a house by this age. You

must have reached your career goals by this age.

We live in such a goal orientated society and life

with Jesus is more about the person we're

becoming, the journey of holiness. It's less about

milestones and it's more about maturity of

character. So how have the happenings of my life

formed me to become more like the person of Jesus?

That's what it says in Romans 8. It said that God

knows his people in advance and he chose them to

become like his son. So it's all very well and

good to say, well, okay, I'm 30 and I've hit all

the milestones I wanted to. But if our character

doesn't look like Christ, you know, there's an

argument to say there's something about how Jesus,

Jesus wants us to be like him. Jesus really wants

to shape us into his identity. And also I find it

so interesting when we talk about this, this piece

around 30, because Jesus himself, I mean we know

that, we, we know this as Christians that Jesus

lived a quiet life until the age of 30. But if we

actually consider that Jesus was just interested

in living in a loving relationship with his

father, his character was growing, it says in Luke

and, and Jesus grew in wisdom and stature. He grew

in favour with God and man. He was obedient to his

parents until 30, until 30, and then it was only

when he was 30, that's when he went out on

mission. So it's not to say like we only care

about looking like Jesus and not doing anything

with our lives. I'm certainly not saying that. I'm

a missionary. I believe that we all have a

mission. But sometimes it takes time to discover

that. And God is not in a rush. We're the ones in

a rush. God is not in a rush.

>> Julia: Ah, absolutely. I was just thinking back to my own

wedding speech that when I got married I, was

saying how I didn't go looking for a husband. I

just was like going on dates with people and

happened. And I fully believe it's God's timing of

when I met my now, husband rather than I was

rushed into it or pressured into it because I

turned 30.

>> Pippa: Yes, I love that. And sometimes we also forget

that like marriage, let's look at marriage just

for a second. Marriage concerns two persons. It's

not just about me and what I want. Like God was

doing something in my now husband at the time in

which I was, I was waiting for him. God was doing

something in him. And in the time that Sam was

praying for me and waiting for me, God was doing

something in me. So to the point where when we

were married on that most sacred, beautiful day,

we were ready for one another because of the hand

of God. It wasn't, it's not all about me. It also

concerns the other, which is at the, the very

heart of marriage. And obviously we're just

concentrating on marriage because you and I are

married. But, God is always active in our hearts

if we're seeking Him. He is doing something so

deep in our souls, even when we can't feel

anything. So, I suppose I would just say to anyone

listening, like, let the Lord love you where you

are right now. Let him mould you and shape you.

Particularly in a waiting period. Particularly in

that waiting period.

>> Julia: One of the things I love to say when I'm talking

about being in my 30s is that I feel like I know

myself so much better than I did. I'm actually I

enjoy my thirsties more now than I do enjoy my 20s

because I found 20 is quite a lot of time of being

quite anxious about, am I doing the right thing?

Am I doing, Is this what I should say, who I

should be? But actually that time, as you've said,

I've grown with God and so now I'm more confident

or more aware of who I am. What would you say to

somebody who's like, maybe in their late 20s,

who's feeling that, like maybe that discovery or

that anxiousness or that pressure. What advice

would you give them?

>> Pippa: I would say pressure never comes from God. God's

way is peace, that God loves you more than you

think he does. I've discovered that God really

wants us to be happy. He really really wants us to

be happy. Life includes moments of desolation. But

our, day to day God wants us in consolation. He

wants us in his light. So that pressure, when you

look at it, it's not coming from the heart of our

Father. He's not there with a whip driving you

forward. You've got to make decisions, you've got

to get here, you've got to do this. That's not the

way of our Lord. So I would say to, someone who is

experiencing that pressure and that worry, to get

yourself into a place of receiving God's love

again for you, go and be before the Blessed

Sacrament, ask the Lord to fill your heart with

his love and perfect love. His perfect love will

cast out all fear in you.

>> Julia: So you've spoken about what you've learned about

yourself, but what have you learned about God?

>> Pippa: God is kind of. God is powerful. God doesn't tease

us. God will show us his plan if we seek Him. God

is the author of time. He knows what he's about

and he knows what he wants for you. And I think

something that's really helped me with all of this

is, is really delving into the lives of the

saints. And I suppose that would be another piece

of advice I would give to someone feeling anxious

about timelines is to read the lives of the saints

and be blown away by how unique each story is.

Comparison wants to steal our joy. When we read

the lives of the saints and we see their

diversity, comparison seems to crumble. I think

about, particularly when it comes to age. Like St.

Teresa of Avila, one of my favourite saints. She

had her profound awakening, her second conversion,

she would say, at the age of 40, which ended

roughly two decades of mediocre spiritual life.

40. St. Gianna Beretta Mola, who is the patron

saint of mothers. She got married at 33 and had

her first child at 34. We get so worried about

time. God is the author of time.

>> Julia: So with God being the author of time, he obviously

has big dreams for us all, which you've obviously

spoken about when you left your career in

advertising. But how kind of do you. Do you

balance that dreaming big whilst also living in

the present?

>> Pippa: Yeah, this is a great question, Julia, because I

am naturally someone that thinks more

futuristically. I'm very good at living a few

months, a few years down the line. but I have

really discovered that God is. Is now. You know,

he's. He is the one who is here. I'm there

thinking years ahead, he's not there. He's here.

He's here right now. and so I. The one thing I. I

do to ensure that I can live presently is, is. Is

to really make my personal PR morning sacred. And

I protect it. And I want to spend time with my God

today and, give him my heart today. So that's

definitely something that helps me live in the

present moment. I think Thanksgiving is key to

that. If we can get into the habit of being

thankful for everything that we're. We're living

today, whether that's triumph or trial, the. The

growth in us is. Will be huge. And, And I suppose

also periods of rest how do you balance dreaming

big with living presently? You gotta stop, you

gotta, you gotta pause, you've gotta pause. So the

habit of the beautiful spiritual discipline of

Sabbath really, really helps with this.

I suppose I just do want to focus briefly on how

sometimes the present moment can be so difficult,

it can force us to feel like we want to live in

the future. What I mean by that is sometimes the

suffering of the moment can be so difficult, we

want it to be over. And I remember discerning my

vocation and praying about marriage and waiting

for my husband and it honestly felt like such a

heavy cross for me to bear. We all have different

crosses we have to carry. Some people don't have

to carry that cross of discerning your vocation.

For me I had to carry that cross. And at times I

thought, lord, this is too hard. I want the easy

way out. This is so hard. That's often why we want

to live in the future. We want the pain to be

over, but it's in that place where we really can

know who God really is. And I know that when I

look back on my life, it was from that place that

I fell more in love with my God who suffered and

died for me. I'm thankful, I'm thankful for those

moments.

>> Julia: In your 30s it kind of can be quite a strange time

in terms of that. You could be going to a wedding

or a baby shower or something really joyful in

one, in one week, but in that same week end up

going to a funeral or have some time of suffering

in your own life. And you mentioned earlier about

the point of Christ suffering. How do we like

navigate the joys and suffering all together?

>> Pippa: Yeah, it, that is a lovely question because I

think it can be different for each person. But

sometimes in your 30s you can really notice how

real life becomes. Life is full of

responsibilities. Life is full of joys and

sorrows. Just in January this year, my best friend

had baby boys, twin baby boys. And two days later

my mother in law died. So I know the, the pain

alongside joy. And I really believe that joy and

pain can coexist. I believe that we can live a

life with Jesus where we, we don't have to get so

swallowed up in one that we forget the other.

It's, it's a, it feels like a dichotomy, it feels

confusing. But Jesus examples this to us. There

were times where he was in deep joy in his life

with the Father, but he was weeping over places

that didn't believe in him. We get to Live that

life with Jesus, now. And really it is the result

of being on this earth, which hasn't fully been

made new yet. This is the result of the fall. We

experience pain and suffering, but we experience

heaven on earth now, which is where there is no

pain or suffering. So somehow Jesus, the mystery

is that he is. Enters into the pain and he brings

joy into that place. I think it's in that place of

prayer where we really have this opportunity to

bear ourselves before the Lord. Honestly, we can

go into prayer and it can be a show, it can be

fake, it can be autopilot. It. It can not really

come from the heart. But we have this opportunity

as Christians to allow God into the honesty of our

lives, the joy and the suffering, and ask him for

the grace to allow us to bear both. so for me,

honest prayer is the key for that absolute key.

>> Julia: So what do you wish you knew before turning 30?

>> Pippa: I think I wish I knew how powerful prayer is

before I turn 30. I'm discovering that prayer is

really what moves mountains. And I think I spent a

portion of my twenties pushing and striving and

trying to make things happen by my own strength.

And the Lord. The Lord answers our prayers. The

Lord hears us when we pray. We're not just

speaking to the sky. So the power of prayer is

something that I am constantly amazed by. I think

also that my spiritual director once said to me

when I was terribly worried about my vocation, he

said, seek God before you seek your vocation. And

I realised that as I sought God and I came to know

the beauty of who he is, that he is alive, that

Jesus is alive and active and actively working for

my good, that when I sought God, I found all I

need. I found all I needed. And so then my

vocation came to me as my gift. When he gave me my

husband, it was a gift from his heart to mine. And

I also have discovered that God's way is worth the

wait. I wish I'd known that God's way is worth the

wait.

>> Julia: what are you grateful for?

>> Pippa: So much. I'm grateful to have had a wonderful

conversation with you, Julia, about our God, who

is so surprising and beautiful and dynamic and

creative. I'm thankful for my home and my life and

my relationship with Jesus.

>> Julia: Thank you, Pippa, for joining us.

>> Pippa: You're welcome. It's doing wonderful. Thank you,

Julia.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to Things I Wish I Knew. I

know this conversation is going to stay with me

because Pippa speaks about her trusting in God

leading to something beyond what she could have

imagined in her twenties. How about you? We'd love

to hear how Pippa's story resonates with you. And

why not also tell us if you're facing an

experience you wish you knew how to look at

differently, it might just be something we can

help with. You can find out more about this and

other themes at thinkingfaith.org. Thank you again

for listening. I hope you'll join me again next

time on Things I Wish I Knew.