VOICEMAIL: [00:00:00] You've reached the voicemail of Clementine Lavender. Please leave a message after the tone.

ROB: Right. Well that explains that. Clem isn't ignoring my call, though. She's very happily on maternity leave, which is a pretty solid reason not to pick up, I think. However, before she left, Clem did host a great partnership interview, which we're featuring on today's episode.

As she's not here to introduce herself, I'll do that for her. So, Clementine Lavender is Awin's global head of strategic partnerships and innovation. Quite a title. She leads the team working closely with our technology and strategic partners across the ecosystem here at Awin, and she recorded today's episode with the daily deals advertiser Wowcher, and also Button, an AI-powered mobile commerce optimisation platform, who specialize in app tracking within the affiliate channel. So their conversation explored how Button helped [00:01:00] Wowcher improve their app tracking, close measurement gaps, and unlock stronger performance from their affiliate program.

But I have to say, somewhat ironically, on the day Clem recorded this in the studio, she actually lost her phone, which feels strangely appropriate for an episode about smartphones, connections and tracking.

That aside, this is a really key topic for the industry right now and at Awin especially in light of our drive to improve measurement standards via the Conversion Protection Initiative, which we've been talking a lot about recently. This episode takes a practical look at what happens when an advertiser and a specialist tech partner work together to raise those standards.

So, while Clem might be temporarily offline - the tracking in this episode definitely isn't.

AMY: I was at Awin for three years, and in that time I worked across many different verticals, including fashion, insurance, travel.

ROB: That's Amy Denton, [00:02:00] senior marketing manager at Wowcher.

AMY: I've been at Wowcher for a year now and personally, professionally, I've grown so much within that year. So thoroughly enjoyed my seven years within the affiliate marketing, um, industry.

JO: I didn't initially start my career in the affiliate industry. I studied media production at university and started doing video editing for IPC media at the time.

ROB: Also with us is Joanna Cornish, partner success director at Button.

JO: So I started as a partner success manager. I'm now a partner success director, currently supporting, uh, our entire team as well, just in terms of retailer management, like focusing on all of our retailer clients and driving success. So yeah.

CLEM: So quite the journey.

JO: Yes.

CLEM: Quite the jump that you've had there. Although jump signifies quick and it doesn't sound that quick, but-

JO: Well, I, I, I started at Awin in 2013, then went to Button in 2017, so I'm eight years -

CLEM: Wow.

JO: - in, uh, so long tenure now.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: Part of the furniture.

CLEM: In the, [00:03:00] in the same boat. I think I'm 10 years at Awin, which is shocking. Really. When I saw it, I was just like.

JO: Do you get a present for 10 years?

CLEM: Do you know what? I kind of messed things up for myself because I moved from the London office to the Amsterdam office at a milestone, I think. I can't remember which it was, but essentially I've missed the London gift and the Amsterdam one.

So, holding out for 15 year, 20 year, I dunno.

JO: This, this is a plug. Technically you've been there 10 years, so.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: Hopefully we can get something.

CLEM: For whoever needs to hear this. No, I've got an Awin jumper. I'm good.

AMY: So Wowcher is a daily deal site and we work via a voucher redemption model. And these vouchers can be for spas, theme parks, hotels, international travel, but also anything goods focused as well as home products and electronics products.

And what we really aim to do is create that aspirational lifestyle for people that are potentially on a budget. So, for example, it might be a family of four and [00:04:00] they wanna go to a theme park, which obviously can be quite expensive, but when you get the Wowcher voucher, it essentially will make it half the price.

So that is what we're aiming for, to give that aspirational life on a budget for those families.

CLEM: So Jo, could you give us some insights and kind of outline what is it that makes Button unique, um, across kind of the mobile performance marketing attribution ecosystem?

JO: Button's a mobile technology partner, our goal is to optimize for conversion. So we take every existing click, or every source of traffic in affiliate today, in mobile affiliate, and drive more revenue and sales from those clicks by sending it through our pipes essentially.

What makes us different, I guess, without getting too much into the weeds: we are privacy first, we are all about accurate tracking and attribution, and we do that all without requiring any personal data.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: So in a post-ATT world where privacy is at the forefront, we don't rely on user [00:05:00] identifiers like IDFA to track those customers. So it's something like 86 million users today are invisible to MMPs because of this ATT. MMPs are used for kind of that cross channel attribution, so use customer information in order to be able to create those user profiles, understand how they're transacting across different channels. What we do is we actually - so they can't see those 86 million users, that gap. What we do is we are able to use session tracking to track and attribute all those orders back to a click. I'm getting too into the weeds. Let me be more top level.

CLEM: Privacy first is, a good one. Obviously I've got some experience with Button. Um, but it's also your focus. So there are - you referenced MMPs and a lot of advertisers utilize MMPs for app attribution, for example, but Button really is the only partner that has a dedicated focus on the affiliate channel.

And so, you get it. You know, with the other MMPs, they've got so many different [00:06:00] things on their plate and so affiliate is just a very small piece of the pie. Whereas Button, you know, you understand it. You even come from an affiliate background.

JO: Yeah.

CLEM: So I think from my point of view, that also sets you apart.

JO: Yeah, exactly that.

CLEM: Not to, steal your question and your answer, but -

JO: No, that's, that's a perfect distinction. We are heavily focused on affiliate.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: And that probably is the, the key differentiator. Privacy first, we don't rely on user tracking.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: And that fills all the gaps that retailers have today.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: And we're not competing against the ecosystem. We're enabling it.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: And we are giving MMPs networks and retailers and publishers all the insights to that data that was invisible before.

CLEM: Great.

JO: Works well.

CLEM: Thank you.

JO: Thank you.

CLEM: Um, so welcome. Anytime. So this is a question really for both of you, um, how did Wowcher and Button kind of come to be in partnership?

AMY: Wowcher started in about 14 years ago in 2009, and we are only a online business.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

AMY: The [00:07:00] landscape has changed significantly in that time where 14 years ago, the primary method of purchasing online was desktop. Over the, probably about five years, we increasingly saw the demand and need to migrate into a mobile first strategy.

And this is where we started working with Button.

JO: We had an inbound, they, uh, reached out.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: Uh, saying we really wanna drive install growth. That's a key goal for us. We wanna have it on an efficient CPI model, so cost per install model.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: And had been partnered with, um, kind of app attribution partners in the past, but kind of mentioned previously where there was this huge gap in data -

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: - it meant we could, we could fix that gap. So really good positive initial discussions. Wowcher are very app first focused.

AMY: Mm-hmm.

JO: Seeing the way they think about mobile, how they look at lifetime value, how valuable an installed customer is, you know, once you get that customer having that app on your device.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: You're seeing three to five times higher conversion [00:08:00] rates. It's, it's massive.

CLEM: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's great to hear. And you obviously referenced that predominantly some time ago, you're very much desktop only, but then there's been this huge shift towards mobile. Um, what do you think has kind of caused that shift?

Because honestly, I think for as long as I can remember, every year when it was the December predictions for next year in affiliates, it's always: "It's gonna be the year of mobile." And I think that actually, it has happened in the past few years where mobile truly is kind of taking over desktop in a lot of scenarios. And it sounds like Wowcher is one of those.

So, what do you think kind of initiated that shift and has it changed your perception of, um, affiliate marketing in general?

AMY: The shift certainly came from our customers themselves.

CLEM: Mm.

AMY: We would essentially analyze our data by device and every year we would see the increase in number of traffic coming from [00:09:00] mobile, and mobile app when we launched that in 2016 as well.

So purely all of our decisions are guided by data and it's guided by our customer. So where is our customer and where are they looking? A lot of them may look on platforms like Facebook, um, or Meta, any of the social media platforms, as well as Google and as well as other browsers. And that's where we have essentially been able to shift our budget to really target our customers and where they actually are.

JO: I was looking at initial performance metrics from when we first launched voucher to today. And initially when we launched we saw 29% of orders happening in the app.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: And that's now shifted to 50% of orders.

CLEM: Wow.

JO: And that's from driving installs, getting those customers more sticky, but also just making sure those customers are landing in the app when it's installed.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: Like Amy mentioned, customers are coming from Facebook, they're also coming from Instagram, they're coming from all these platforms where on mobile, those platforms are actively trying to keep that customer in their [00:10:00] experience.

CLEM: Yeah, of course.

JO: Because they want the engagement, they want them clicking around.

Whereas what we do is we break them out, get them into the Wowcher app, because we know that they have the app installed.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: And they're gonna be more loyal to Wowcher and have a more seamless experience.

CLEM: Yeah. So I mean, Jo has just kind of touched on this, but I wonder if you could give us a bit more information as to the kinds of challenges that you were seeing at Wowcher before you had initiated the partnership with Button.

So, I mean user experience and sufficient tracking is of course one heavy one, but is there anything else or more details that you want to give around those points?

AMY: Definitely. So prior to the relationship with Button, we do also work with MMPs. However, the data was in so many different platforms that it was really hard to aggregate, and it was really hard for us to make accurate business decisions of where we should put our budget and be able to spend more money to obviously achieve a positive ROI.

And when we started working with Button firstly, they solved that need for us and that [00:11:00] demand that we needed. We needed a consolidated view of affiliate app journeys. We needed a view of the incrementality, so how many app installs affiliates were driving, as well as how many conversions were coming through affiliates via the app and Button was able to really support us with that.

JO: Is it fair to say it's like shifting that previous guesswork in some of those areas where you're pulling in all these different sources to seeing the actual end to end information and that data that was potentially missing before?

AMY: Definitely, it gives us confidence that we're making the right business decision, that we're putting our budgets in the right areas.

CLEM: Yeah. I think this, um, brings us to quite an interesting point because you've referenced the fact that you do work with AppsFlyer who are an MMP, and I said earlier that some advertisers on the Awin Network utilize MMPs in isolation for their app attribution. But it's really interesting to hear that Wowcher are utilizing AppsFlyer who are debatably, the biggest MMP in the [00:12:00] market, but alongside Button. So Jo, from your point of view, what is Button kind of solving for in this scenario? And what is Button adding in conjunction with AppsFlyer?

JO: We're stitching together the data that's missing first and foremost. So I mentioned earlier, 85 million user journeys are invisible to MMPs at the moment because of ATT and other various kind of challenges in that space. So what we do, well actually I'll bring in Awin as well. So Awin will redirect all of their traffic to Button. Button will essentially wrap that link. When that click happens, we send that click data to AppsFlyer, we give them that information that has previously been missing and then they're able to attribute everything downstream from in stores to conversions.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: That means all of the affiliate data is now being attributed correctly.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: To Wowcher's program. Before what we see is clicks happen, money is invested into the affiliate ecosystem, but then it's attributed to another channel. So your ROIs being affected, you're not having publishers be rewarded effectively.

So those are kind of the fundamentals. You know, accurate attribution, making sure those publishers [00:13:00] are rewarded. You are seeing all of that data in your system. And then on top of that, we don't have a one link fits all mentality. We use a whole host of different linking functions that mean we will link the user to where they should be going at the point of click.

We all do it in real time. So we use different linking variations across whether it's device, browser, you know, there's tons of different variables. So we use a whole different host of links.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: That mean we can route the customer at the right time. We are also not built on always getting the customer to the app and being the be all and end all. We are based on how do we drive the most conversions.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: If that's in mweb, we'll drive to web. If it's app, we'll drive to app. If we think it's better to install, we'll drive them to install to then purchase in app.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: We are built for conversion, whereas the MMPs are built for attribution and understanding what channels are bringing in.

So we add that additional layer, which is, you know, we are conversion focused. That's where the additional piece is. So, accurate tracking, attribution, filling the missing gaps.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: And then also [00:14:00] conversion optimization. Get more revenue from every click that comes through.

CLEM: It's probably fair to say then, as a very simplistic distinction between MMPs and Button, is that, as you say, MMPs are of course focused on this attribution, but perhaps in more of a passive way. So if an advertiser wants to actually put time and effort into optimizing their mobile strategy, then Button is a partner that can facilitate that.

JO: Exactly. And your day-to-day does not change in the sense of how you work with everything else, how you work with a network, how you work with an MMP. We're the pipes essentially that traffic routes through.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: That takes that customer from where it originates to making the final purchase.

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CLEM: So you've given me a lot of context on the technicalities of where Button come in and support things from a technical point of view. Could you give me some information, logistically speaking, when Amy came to you and said, "Okay, yep, we want to establish partnership with Button." What are the steps there and kind of the timeframes to actually getting things live between advertiser and Button?

JO: Between signature to actual we'll go live date, it took a month.

CLEM: Wow.

JO: Um, which was really great. We had your team so dedicated on [00:16:00] getting this live in time for kind of the Christmas peak and into January and the new year. So I think if you can get the resources allocated, it can be a really quick turnaround, which is great.

AMY: To add to that we are a fast paced business, but also we look at the size of the prize to determine where we should prioritize our efforts. And at that point, we saw Button being one of the biggest size of the prize to be able to attribute correctly and to be able to make better business decisions.

CLEM: You obviously touched on the app share changing quite drastically when you are comparing figures, but are there any other performance insights that you can give me?

As you say, Button is very much focused on conversion optimization as opposed to solely attribution, um, so are there any other performance insights that you can give?

JO: One of the ones we love is lifetime value.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: So the lifetime value of an app customer, an install customer and how that transitions from mobile to app.

Internally, retailers will look at how much more valuable is an app customer? And [00:17:00] you know, we know that they convert three to five times more. Once you get that customer installing your app, they're just gonna come back more frequently and they're gonna have a much higher purchase. They're kind of stickier customers.

CLEM: Yeah.

AMY: Mm-hmm.

JO: Um, so lifetime value is one. We look at kind of app percentage of sales over time. 'cause I think it's so important to increase that, as you are focusing and building on that.

CLEM: Earlier on you referenced ATT, so um, Apple's App Tracking Transparency framework. Amy, from your point of view, since the release of ATT, how has that impacted the way in which you approach your role? 'cause it was obviously quite disruptive at the point of announcement and you know, it has been tough, um, but has it directly impacted your role?

AMY: I definitely think when ATT was first announced, there was a sense of panic.

CLEM: Mm.

AMY: As we wouldn't be able to attribute our mobile performance correctly. So that's why it's great when we started working with Button because they were able to plug those gaps and really support us.

CLEM: Yeah. [00:18:00] Perfect. So then I guess, Jo, obviously a real USP for Button is the tracking attribution can assist even in a post ATT world.

How would you say the Button is supporting advertisers like Wowcher, um, to continue to work and optimize with mobile?

JO: So we track session data, we don't track user data. So anything to do with a customer's device like IDFA or personal identifiers just are not required fundamentally for our tracking.

Because we're on that session basis, we can identify for customer clicks, track the actual downstream events in a privacy compliant world. So even as all these ATT changes were happening, we were able to proactively look at all these changes, reach out to all our customers and say, "This is okay. Nothing changes. We don't rely on it." Um, and so everything could continue as normal even once the releases came into place. So I like to think, [00:19:00] or at least hope that we were a reassuring voice to all of our customers that it's gonna be okay. Things are gonna continue. Yeah, don't, don't panic.

CLEM: We've got this.

JO: Yes, exactly.

CLEM: So I think something that the affiliate industry oftentimes struggles with is any additional investment.

So because we are predominantly a cost per acquisition channel, as soon as there is a requirement for more upfront investment, it can be quite tricky. So Amy, from your point of view, how have you got the right ears in your business to listen and actually acknowledge and appreciate that affiliates is a driving force for a profitable business.

AMY: When I started, I essentially looked at the program as a whole, and I really noticed like we had some gaps within our publisher mix. And we relied quite heavily on say the top five, and it was my goal throughout the year to be able to onboard new affiliates, work with different payment methods to make sure [00:20:00] every affiliate was accurately paid and um, was paid what they deserve.

So internally, I have been able to justify my decisions in the business firstly by showing, um, forecasts. And proving the incrementality of each partner type. Each partner type is so different in terms of how much revenue, immediate revenue, they drive. And that's why it's really important to benchmark each partner type differently. It's not fair to compare a cashback partner to a content partner. So we do have different targets for those and we essentially see the lifetime value of a content partner and how they can support us with brand awareness.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

AMY: As well as building a brand identity by partnering with the right publishers where our customers will be.

CLEM: I guess from a app attribution point of view, Jo, how do you think that this supports that conversation in getting, um, like C-suite [00:21:00] acknowledgement and investment into the affiliate channel?

JO: I think by having the reliable attribution, it means your channel is being rewarded for the money that's being invested. And ultimately, if ROI is positive and it's, you know, in your goals and you're reaching those, they're gonna invest more in that channel. You know, whereas if you are investing money in affiliate, it's not attributing - your ROI is gonna tank and they're not gonna wanna invest anymore. And I think affiliate can be such an undervalued channel when actually it's, especially from a content perspective, it's driving new customers brand awareness.

They're typically younger audiences, so that's the opportunity to drive a ton of new customers to fall in love with your brand, to become loyal customers that have your app installed, and that starts with a seamless customer experience. It starts with creators and publishers being rewarded for the sales they're driving.

If you keep the publishers, the creators happy, the customers happy, you're gonna see a really good experience. And then C-Suite are gonna see all these sales coming through from the [00:22:00] affiliate channel and think: "This is awesome, let's invest more. And let's do more with that channel."

CLEM: Yeah. So I suppose on the topic of fair attribution and tracking transparency, I'd be amiss not to mention Awin's launch of the Conversion Protection Initiative, which was launched April 2025.

How do you both, um, kind of view such initiatives specifically in relation to app measurements? I suppose for anyone that doesn't have the context here, this is essentially where Awin released - the name is in the title - Conversion Protection Initiative, whereby for advertisers that we know to have a transactional app, but who do not have app attribution set up with Awin, we essentially are using probabilistic methods, um, to continue to have some level of sort of tracking and attribution for that program so that the publishers aren't just completely missing out on the work that they're doing.

So yeah, I guess we can start with Jo. How do you view such an initiative?

JO: [00:23:00] I think it's great. It's shining a light on something that the industry potentially has been a bit cautious of shining a light on before. And it's been a problem statement, or it's been a challenge, for a really long time. So I think it's great really protecting the publishers, but also striving for a more data driven industry.

It's protecting the industry as well.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: Because ultimately when you're missing that tracking and you're missing all of that data, there are gonna be these gaps that the C-suite and leadership don't see.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: And so it becomes even more undervalued. Whereas by saying, you know, this is the data that needs to be tracked, it shines a light on it.

I think to your point, it's probabilistic - so it's not the desired outcome, and I know Awin have said this before, you know, "This isn't actually what we want. We just wanna encourage you to actually get this accurate attribution in place." Because shifting from that guesswork to deterministic data where you can see the real actual data that's happening, I think it's such a good way to encourage those partners that aren't necessarily doing accurate app [00:24:00] attribution to shift the way they're thinking. And ultimately, I think, you are leaving revenue on the table if you are not doing this today, because you are gonna lose out on that additional investment and you're not gonna be accurately attributing to, to the channel and to those publishers who are -

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: Have been working with customers for, or with retailers, for years and years and have been promoting them, but they're just not being rewarded.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: And it just creates better relationships, better outcomes, more sales and revenue.

CLEM: Yeah, I mean, I agree for sure, and I think as a app attribution partner of course, Button would agree. But I'm keen to hear your thoughts on this, Amy. Obviously you were not impacted, and when I say you I mean Wowcher, by CPI because you had appropriate attribution in place. But kind of having that advertiser hat on, if you work under the assumption that you didn't yet have app attribution in place, how would you view such an initiative?

AMY: As a brand, we really pride ourselves on transparency with our publishers. We have such loyal publishers that we've [00:25:00] really built trust with over a long period of time, and being able to accurately unlock budget to book in more activity with them and be able to justify to our C-Suite that this activity will drive long-term revenue, has really been, um, facilitated by Button and been able to help us with that.

JO: Wowcher have been incredible at like, working with their publishers and ensuring that transparency. And I think it's so refreshing to see that mindset and it, what it has meant is more investment. More growth.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: Our program continues to see efficient growth year on year.

CLEM: Yeah, which is obviously what we want to see. And Wowcher is a great example of this and Jo, you touched on previously that the objective of CPI is not for our advertisers to endlessly have CPI associated to their account. The aim here is to swap probabilistic, um, tracking to deterministic. So how do you see Button kind of [00:26:00] supporting in such endeavors?

JO: I think essentially just by partnering with any retailers that don't have this today.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: I encourage anyone who's not doing this today to reach out to Button, even if it's just to ask questions and understand the challenges, the solutions, uh, for their program and, and the impact that it can have. Like even if we look at Wowcher's performance by working with Button, not only did they get the accurate attribution and more visible data, but we demonstrated 31% conversion rate lift.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: Based on every click that comes through their system or that exists in their affiliate program today.

So you're not only gonna be covering these sales that are invisible, essentially, you are also gonna be driving more sales and more revenue, so you are getting a benefit on that, um, increased data visibility.

CLEM: Moving on from sort of pure tracking and attribution side of things, I wanted to touch on the rise of importance of social, of content publishers.

Amy, you've mentioned how [00:27:00] powerful such publishers are for Wowcher. Would you be able to give us some information on to how this doesn't cannibalize on the work that your in-house influencer team does at Wowcher and how it's kept separate?

AMY: So we separate our internal social team from what we do. So we define an affiliate creator as somebody who focuses on either a category or a theme.

So that potentially could be a bargain publisher in a certain area. That's a broad example. So that means that the person is not the sole focus of their content. It's about a category or a theme where our social team really focus on that influencer being their brand and the content is solely focused on their life.

So I think it's quite an easy way to separate the two um, groups.

JO: We are also seeing a huge shift in traffic coming from social and creators, so partners like Shop My and Mavely. But traffic is increasing to be as high as cashback and [00:28:00] loyalty partners. There's this huge understanding that creators can be in the affiliate space and shifting away from this flat fee gifting model to a CPA basis.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: It's also even more valuable for creators to be tracked, you know, versus just we assume this happened because we gave them a gift and they posted and they got X amount of impressions. What's really important is tracking that user journey, and especially in places like Instagram where they're actively keeping the customer in Instagram, like I mentioned earlier.

It's ever more important to break those customers out where we can and Button help support that, like we see huge lifts in conversion rate just by getting the customer from Instagram to the app. Um, but yeah, the shift is huge. We're seeing creators make up a bigger proportion of traffic, um, and sales as a result, and it's complimentary to your overall creator program, whether you have them using an affiliate link or whether they're coming through directly, you can kind of, they can coexist together and still drive value.

CLEM: Yeah, and I think your answer to that has kind of helped lead me into my next question, which [00:29:00] is, we touched on previously that perhaps an MMP integration for app attribution is somewhat more passive. For Button, it is a lot more active, proactive, from not just the advertisers' point of view, but from Button's as well. It seems like it truly is a reciprocal partnership. It's not just a case of one and done, you do the integration and then you kind of shake hands and say goodbye.

Can you give me some examples of things that both Wowcher and Button have worked on together beyond that initial integration?

JO: For sure, I mean, we are in contact - we have biweekly syncs where we're running through data, open projects, things that constantly checking in on. Any new challenges that are coming up, things that are coming onto your roadmap or new development areas that you wanna grow and invest. And I think that feedback loop between us has been a huge positive to the program, like being collaborative, you know, we'll present new opportunities in terms of pilots that might not be traditional affiliate, but like presenting those to Wowcher and them showing that [00:30:00] excitement and being open to experimenting and testing new things is great at just opening up new opportunities and then sharing data as well.

So, Amy, you guys are great at providing information and saying how things are growing and then we can provide feedback on, you know, what we are seeing on our side or other recommendations that tied to that or that we've seen elsewhere that could work for your program. I think key is collaboration, share of data, and not being afraid to test and learn things.

AMY: To add to that, I think the communication with Button is really strong. So for example, I will share quite frequently like how the rest of the business is doing and it's really key to spotlight as well whether the Button is in line with that, exceeding that or below that.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

AMY: And we can always make changes and adjustments as we need to.

They also help us identify any fraud.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

AMY: And like I say, along with sharing like new publishers, we look at our existing publisher base and if there's something that looks fraudulent Button will help us, um, and we have the evidence to be able to take them off the program to be able to protect ourselves, so as well as protecting the publishers, Button also helps [00:31:00] protect the program.

CLEM: Yeah, I think that is always going to be important in a fully optimized partnership is this reciprocal nature, but also fluidity and not just kind of resting on your laurels or letting things get stale, just because that's how it worked previously. And it sounds like you guys have really kind of got that down, which is great.

And I suppose, have you learned anything from this Wowcher Button partnership that you would kind of use for other partnerships to better those?

AMY: Since I started at Wowcher, Jo has been such a massive help to me, um, personally and professionally and just learning about the app tracking space and being able to lean on Jo and the Button team for that expertise, and that extra resource that we don't always have in-house is really like invaluable.

JO: That's really nice.

AMY: Brownie points!

CLEM: Take a minute.

JO: Yeah. Um, the thing I'd [00:32:00] uh say from a Wowcher perspective is just the way that they are open to testing and learning, but also the way they use data to guide their strategy. So they are data driven in the way that they approach how they wanna grow the program. And that's been a huge success in the growth that you've been seeing this year. Um, and it's great for, it actually gives us new ways of thinking as well. 'cause sometimes we can see the app industry and what different customers are focused on, having those insights of how Wowcher thinks is instrumental to guiding new strategies and making us think in a different way as well.

So, I think getting your perspective is so key.

CLEM: You've hit the nail on the head there, like enabling you to think in a different way, and that is the importance of partnerships like you cannot host every form of expertise under one roof, under one company, and so it's really important to outsource because ultimately,

what you are expert in, you may not be, and vice versa. And you know, it's just really helpful to have these different views and [00:33:00] expertise added to your business.

JO: Yeah. And when you think about each kind of individual company in this partnership, Awin as a network provides something totally different. You are focused on, I mean, the millions of things that networks do.

You've got the insights of what your customer's like, how, what your data's seeing. The MMPs are focused on cross channel attribution, like looking at the bigger picture. Button is wholly focused on affiliate attribution, conversion optimization, like every piece of the puzzle is so important to making a successful program.

CLEM: For sure.

JO: And the industry changes so quickly. Mobile changes so quickly. New app releases happen on a biweekly basis. It's just, there's constant change and you've gotta move with that change, otherwise you get stuck in in isolation.

CLEM: I think that's it, right? And you need to be a specialist business focused on that area to consistently move with the market and ensure that you are up to speed on everything.

JO: Exactly.

CLEM: I mean, our, I would say our industry is particularly fluid. It moves forward at quite a rapid rate. But looking ahead, if there [00:34:00] were a brand that was considering, um, investing in app tracking, but they were still a little bit hesitant, what is the one piece of advice that you would give them?

We'll start with you, Amy.

AMY: I'd say, you want to diversify your affiliate program, it's really important not to rely on one partner or one partner type. So being able to have that clear view and that attribution model that you can show internally to justify your decisions as to why you're diversifying your program is key and I'd hate anyone to fall behind from that really.

CLEM: Yeah, absolutely. And you, Jo?

JO: I'd say reach out and ask questions even if you don't want to speak to us directly initially, like, speak to people that we work with like Wowcher.

CLEM: Yeah.

JO: And just understand - or think about the challenges that you're facing and, and how they can be fixed.

CLEM: Mm-hmm.

JO: I think it's fair to say by not investing now you are leaving money on the table, and the longer you leave it, the, the more revenue that's gonna fall away through your fingers.[00:35:00]

ROB: Huge thanks to Jo and Amy for joining us in the studio there and of course to Clem for hosting before she very sensibly logged off. She did a brilliant job.

If you are an Awin customer and want to explore how Button could support your app tracking, head to the episode landing page and we'll include a link there.

We'll also share a link to more information about Awin's Conversion Protection Initiative, which recently passed its one year milestone. Over the past year, hundreds of advertisers have upgraded their tracking standards, resulting in significant additional revenue being accurately measured, and of course, the right partners being fairly rewarded for it too.

That's all for today's episode, but we'll be back in a fortnight with another partnership story to spotlight. And in the meantime, don't forget to check out our new companion series, The Performance Marketer's Toolkit. These short, practical episodes break down common marketing challenges and show how affiliate partnerships and Awin's tools can help solve them. They're hosted by our VP of Marketing, [00:36:00] Lisa Maynard, and they're well worth a listen.

Until next time, thanks for listening to A Win-Win Marketing Podcast, where we show you how partner marketing always offers a win-win. Goodbye.