INTRO: Welcome to the NSPCC Learning Podcast, where
INTRO: we share learning and expertise in child
INTRO: protection from inside and outside of the
INTRO: organisation.
INTRO: We aim to create debate, encourage reflection and
INTRO: share good practise on how we can all work
INTRO: together to keep babies, children and young
INTRO: people safe.
JENNIFER DIXON: Hello and welcome to this NSPCC Learning
JENNIFER DIXON: podcast on emotional resilience.
JENNIFER DIXON: My name is Jennifer Dixon and I'm the
JENNIFER DIXON: team manager in the Scotland Hub.
JENNIFER DIXON: I'm going to introduce two of my
JENNIFER DIXON: colleagues who are joining me today, Jo
JENNIFER DIXON: and Prajapa.
JO GRACE: My name is Jo Grace and I'm a children's
JO GRACE: services practitioner with the NSPCC coming
JO GRACE: up almost 15 years.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Hello, I'm Prajapa Seneviratne and
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: I'm the Research and Evaluation
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Officer at NSPCC in Scotland.
JENNIFER DIXON: Thank you both for joining me today.
JENNIFER DIXON: I'm going to facilitate some of the
JENNIFER DIXON: questions and ask you both to talk about
JENNIFER DIXON: one of the projects we all worked on in
JENNIFER DIXON: Govan, but also to talk a bit more about
JENNIFER DIXON: emotional resilience itself.
JENNIFER DIXON: So first of all, Jo, to you, can you tell
JENNIFER DIXON: me a bit about what is emotional
JENNIFER DIXON: resilience to start with?
JO GRACE: So I think probably the easiest way to start is
JO GRACE: almost by giving a definition of what emotional
JO GRACE: resilience is.
JO GRACE: The main one that we used originated from
JO GRACE: the Harvard Centre for the Developing Child
JO GRACE: and they define resilience as having
JO GRACE: the right support to cope,
JO GRACE: adapt and thrive in spite of adverse
JO GRACE: life experiences.
JO GRACE: It's key for managing stress, navigating
JO GRACE: transitions and change, and maintaining healthy
JO GRACE: mental wellbeing.
JO GRACE: Why is emotional resilience important?
JO GRACE: It's a massive life skill.
JO GRACE: It's something that we have to learn.
JO GRACE: So our parents will often be
JO GRACE: our first teachers as models
JO GRACE: of emotional resilience and emotional
JO GRACE: intelligence.
JO GRACE: Positive experiences, along with learning
JO GRACE: self care practices and building trusting
JO GRACE: relationships for children, act
JO GRACE: as protective factors that help build
JO GRACE: strength and the ability to cope.
JO GRACE: So whilst it's important to start developing
JO GRACE: emotional resilience from early childhood,
JO GRACE: resilience is an evolving process and it
JO GRACE: continues to develop throughout our lives.
JO GRACE: It's finding the mental and the emotional
JO GRACE: strength, and the support from others around
JO GRACE: you, to be able to pick yourself up and
JO GRACE: kind of keep going and cope in the face of
JO GRACE: whatever the adversity is.
JENNIFER DIXON: Do you think you could tell me a bit
JENNIFER DIXON: about the emotional resilience programme
JENNIFER DIXON: in Govan that we developed?
JO GRACE: Sure, so the actual emotional resilience
JO GRACE: programme came about as
JO GRACE: a result of the consequences of the COVID
JO GRACE: pandemic. When we returned to
JO GRACE: being in work, loosely in 2021
JO GRACE: and then into 2022, there were seven
JO GRACE: primary schools in Govan — and we had really
JO GRACE: good connections with them anyway prior to
JO GRACE: COVID — so a lot of them contacted us
JO GRACE: to let us know that transition
JO GRACE: back to in-person education after
JO GRACE: the COVID pandemic was really significantly
JO GRACE: impacting the children.
JO GRACE: Their emotional and social connections had been
JO GRACE: massively impacted by the lockdown and
JO GRACE: actually many of the children were carrying
JO GRACE: grief and loss that were unsupported, whether
JO GRACE: that was through direct bereavement
JO GRACE: of family members both locally or
JO GRACE: around the world.
JO GRACE: But also huge losses in terms of socialising
JO GRACE: and friendships and activities and the things
JO GRACE: that they did during, you know, after school
JO GRACE: and all those kind of things, because
JO GRACE: everything had stopped.
JO GRACE: The schools felt that the children needed a
JO GRACE: safe space and some conversations to learn how
JO GRACE: to manage their feelings in order to be able to
JO GRACE: focus on their learning.
JO GRACE: So, the schools asked us if there was anything
JO GRACE: that we could do to try and support that.
JO GRACE: As a team, we all worked together in
JO GRACE: consultation and in co-creation with the
JO GRACE: schools to develop the emotional resilience
JO GRACE: programme.
JO GRACE: The aim of the programme was to build
JO GRACE: resilience in the children through developing
JO GRACE: their emotional awareness,
JO GRACE: their emotional language, their emotional
JO GRACE: intelligence.
JO GRACE: So this included things like being able to
JO GRACE: recognise and name their feelings, developing
JO GRACE: empathy towards others, to know the importance
JO GRACE: of being able to identify a trusted, safe,
JO GRACE: caring, nurturing adult that they would be able
JO GRACE: to reach out to and ask for help; but
JO GRACE: also to know how to take care of themselves and
JO GRACE: their own mental health, as well as that of
JO GRACE: their friends and being supportive to their
JO GRACE: friends. We developed this five-week programme.
JO GRACE: The sessions were 60 minutes in duration
JO GRACE: that we ran over five weeks.
JO GRACE: It was facilitated by two workers
JO GRACE: in each group alongside the class
JO GRACE: teacher.
JO GRACE: We held planning meetings before the
JO GRACE: sessions in order to make sure that we
JO GRACE: understood what the needs of the children in
JO GRACE: the classroom were.
JO GRACE: And we held post-planning debriefs
JO GRACE: with the teaching staff in order to review and
JO GRACE: assess how the programme had gone and the
JO GRACE: benefits that the teachers were seeing or
JO GRACE: hearing from the children.
JO GRACE: Ultimately by 2024,
JO GRACE: we had delivered the programme to just under
JO GRACE: 800 children in the Govan area, which
JO GRACE: was quite incredible.
JENNIFER DIXON: Thank you, Jo. Next question will be, and
JENNIFER DIXON: I'm gonna ask both of you this question.
JENNIFER DIXON: So, Jo, from a practice point of view,
JENNIFER DIXON: Prajapa, from the evaluation point of
JENNIFER DIXON: view, what were the benefits of the
JENNIFER DIXON: programme?
JO GRACE: Schools really welcomed the emotional facility
JO GRACE: programme as a really valuable opportunity to
JO GRACE: connect with and support the children in a
JO GRACE: different way in their classrooms.
JO GRACE: An awful lot of the teachers had said that they
JO GRACE: felt a little bit de-skilled in knowing how to
JO GRACE: manage when you're dealing with the behaviours
JO GRACE: of 30 or 33 children in the class who
JO GRACE: all have different needs.
JO GRACE: The teachers were struggling how to know to
JO GRACE: meet all those needs consistently.
JO GRACE: So by bringing the programme into the class and
JO GRACE: really keeping the teachers as a core part of
JO GRACE: that, that really upskilled the teachers
JO GRACE: in their abilities to connect with the
JO GRACE: children. Alongside that, the teachers told us
JO GRACE: that many of the children had faced significant
JO GRACE: challenges, not just the bereavement that I
JO GRACE: mentioned earlier, but there were other things
JO GRACE: like developmental delays, adjusting
JO GRACE: to being back in the school environment or new
JO GRACE: environments.
JO GRACE: Govan is an incredibly diverse community,
JO GRACE: so there are lots and lots of different
JO GRACE: languages and cultures.
JO GRACE: In one of the schools that we worked in, they
JO GRACE: had children speaking 34 different languages.
JO GRACE: So there was some real significant challenges
JO GRACE: for the teaching staff to be able to understand
JO GRACE: and meet the needs of this really wide ranging
JO GRACE: group of children.
JO GRACE: And the programme was able to meet
JO GRACE: those needs, not just for the schools, but then
JO GRACE: also for the children.
JO GRACE: The feedback that we got from the children was
JO GRACE: really powerful in terms of— we would
JO GRACE: do a safety plan at the end of the programme
JO GRACE: and we would say to them can you name
JO GRACE: for us, can you make a short list
JO GRACE: of the safe, trusted, nurturing adults that you
JO GRACE: know that you can approach? And actually time
JO GRACE: and time again the names of the NSPCC
JO GRACE: staff came up with the children because
JO GRACE: they'd recognised that we were a safe
JO GRACE: space but also within the school we created
JO GRACE: a wider safe space and they knew that lots of
JO GRACE: the teachers were involved in emotional
JO GRACE: resilience and they could go to their
JO GRACE: teachers or their wider community for support.
JENNIFER DIXON: So on question two, Prajapa, from an
JENNIFER DIXON: evaluation point of view, what were the
JENNIFER DIXON: benefits of the programme?
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Yes, so in 2024,
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the NSPCC research team evaluated
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the emotional resilience programme.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: I must say it was a real privilege
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: to understand more about the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: programme through conversations with
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: school staff, the NSPCC staff who
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: had helped design and deliver the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: programme, and teachers in the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: schools where the programme was rolled
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: out. Most importantly, we spoke to
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the children who participated.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Through the evaluation, we found
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: that the emotional resilience
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: programme has clear benefits for
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: children and the schools.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: The children told us that they had
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: learned how to identify different
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: feelings and were able to recognise
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the emotions of others and to show
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: compassion and be kind to each
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: other. Many children had learned and
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: practised self-care techniques to
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: manage their emotions, such as deep
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: breathing and taking time out when
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: they needed to. And some children
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: had even shared these techniques
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: with members of their families and
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: they were practising this at home.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: The evaluation also found that
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: improving children's awareness of
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: emotional resilience within a
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: supportive school environment can
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: give the children the confidence and
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the feelings of safety and comfort
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: that they need to be able to learn
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: and achieve, to be able to concentrate
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: on their learning.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: We also heard how the programme was
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: helping children who were quite
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: anxious, had been through trauma
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: themselves, and were communicating
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: this through their behaviour in
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: different ways; how the activities
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: and discussions in the programmes
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: helped these children feel settled
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: and positive and happy.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Teachers told the evaluation that by
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: being involved in the programme,
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: they felt more confident teaching
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: children about complex emotions.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Evaluation findings also showed that
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: teachers were connecting better with
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: pupils and had a better understanding
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: of their lives and some of the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: challenges that they were facing on
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: a daily basis.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: This helped teachers to better
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: support the children and respond
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: promptly if there were any
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: safeguarding concerns.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: The findings also showed overall
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: that there is a need for emotional
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: resilience programmes in primary
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: schools and early childcare settings
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: in Govan. As Jo was mentioning, they
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: began delivering the programme to
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the upper years in primary school
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: and then soon realised, because of
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: what teachers were telling them, that
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the need was further downstream for
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: younger children too.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: The programme evaluated that it was
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: needed more widely across Scotland
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: as the benefits of the programme
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: align with the health and wellbeing
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: goals of the curriculum for
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: excellence in Scotland.
JENNIFER DIXON: Thanks, Pajapa.
JENNIFER DIXON: Thinking about the adversity that some of
JENNIFER DIXON: the children have faced, Jo, could you
JENNIFER DIXON: tell me about how you felt the programme
JENNIFER DIXON: related to safeguarding when you were in
JENNIFER DIXON: the schools?
JO GRACE: So obviously whilst we were delivering the
JO GRACE: programme, we observed that holding safe and
JO GRACE: honest discussions about emotions helped
JO GRACE: to strengthen the teacher and the children's
JO GRACE: relationships with each other, which then
JO GRACE: encouraged a supportive and trusting
JO GRACE: relationship throughout the school day where
JO GRACE: children felt able to be open and
JO GRACE: honest about things they were struggling with.
JO GRACE: That also included talking
JO GRACE: about things that were difficult at home,
JO GRACE: sometimes that perhaps children hadn't shared.
JO GRACE: At the start of each session with the children,
JO GRACE: we used to hand them out a worksheet and it had
JO GRACE: a picture of a body on it.
JO GRACE: And we would ask the children, using emojis,
JO GRACE: to draw us faces of how they were feeling
JO GRACE: today, but also to show us where they were
JO GRACE: feeling that in their bodies, because often our
JO GRACE: brain-body connection can be a bit disrupted
JO GRACE: and we're not always good at recognising where
JO GRACE: we're feeling things in our body.
JO GRACE: We can have the thoughts in our heads, but not
JO GRACE: recognise that the washing machine feeling that
JO GRACE: we've got going on in our tummy is part of what
JO GRACE: we're thinking about.
JO GRACE: So we were helping the children to understand
JO GRACE: that. We would do these worksheets with the
JO GRACE: children about how they were feeling, and that
JO GRACE: was fascinating because actually one that we
JO GRACE: got really regularly was, "I'm hungry".
JO GRACE: And that was one that we had to be incredibly
JO GRACE: aware, but also sensitive, about.
JO GRACE: And that was doing things like trying to figure
JO GRACE: out whether the family were, for example,
JO GRACE: living in poverty and this was a family who
JO GRACE: were in hardship and it wasn't a safeguarding
JO GRACE: concern. It was much more about ensuring that
JO GRACE: the family had the signposts and the support
JO GRACE: from other organisations to be able to access
JO GRACE: food support or financial support, making sure
JO GRACE: their income was maximised, et cetera, et
JO GRACE: cetera. So we had to tread carefully with the
JO GRACE: children, trying to figure out whether this was
JO GRACE: hunger as a result of, there was no food in the
JO GRACE: house because the family was struggling with
JO GRACE: poverty, or whether this was a child who was
JO GRACE: hungry because there was actually something
JO GRACE: neglectful going on and they weren't maybe
JO GRACE: being cared for in the way that they should
JO GRACE: have. And we would do that very much
JO GRACE: hand in hand with teachers.
JO GRACE: So if we identified anything worrying within
JO GRACE: the class, we would immediately talk with the
JO GRACE: teacher about it, and then the school and
JO GRACE: ourselves were able to gently explore that a
JO GRACE: wee bit further. Sometimes the school had
JO GRACE: context and could explain that they knew what
JO GRACE: was happening with a family and the struggles
JO GRACE: that they were having.
JO GRACE: There was also some other ones that might not
JO GRACE: necessarily be considered safeguarding
JO GRACE: in the, kind of, child protection type
JO GRACE: safeguarding stance, but were
JO GRACE: definitely about looking after and safeguarding
JO GRACE: the wellbeing of children.
JO GRACE: I mentioned earlier that we used to have
JO GRACE: planning meetings with the school before we did
JO GRACE: the group.
JO GRACE: In one of the schools that we went into, we had
JO GRACE: a class of children where there was quite a
JO GRACE: number of neurodiverse children, but there was
JO GRACE: one child in particular who had experienced
JO GRACE: significant adversity in their background, and
JO GRACE: as a result of that trauma, found it really,
JO GRACE: really difficult to sit still in the classroom.
JO GRACE: So what the class teacher had done was
JO GRACE: created a path on the outskirts of the
JO GRACE: class that this child could basically patrol
JO GRACE: the room. So when they became upset,
JO GRACE: when they started to have hyper-vigilant
JO GRACE: symptoms, instead of the teacher telling a
JO GRACE: child to constantly sit down because they
JO GRACE: wouldn't be able to sit at their seat and
JO GRACE: concentrate, all of the children, as
JO GRACE: part of the emotional resilience programme,
JO GRACE: understood that this young person needed to
JO GRACE: just get up and move because that's what made
JO GRACE: them feel them safe, being able to kind of
JO GRACE: patrol the class.
JO GRACE: What was so lovely about it was everybody just
JO GRACE: accepted it. This child was never made fun of.
JO GRACE: There was never any ridicule or joking
JO GRACE: or anything like that.
JO GRACE: Everybody just understood that this was
JO GRACE: something that this child needed to do, and
JO GRACE: then when they were ready, they would be able
JO GRACE: to come and sit back down again and join back
JO GRACE: into the class. Now that may not be seen as
JO GRACE: a traditional kind of safeguarding issue,
JO GRACE: but it actually, in a trauma-informed way,
JO GRACE: was incredible to safeguard the wellbeing and
JO GRACE: the mental health of this child because they
JO GRACE: felt safe in their classroom whilst they were
JO GRACE: hypervigilant — being able to patrol — and felt
JO GRACE: that they were looking out for the wellbeing of
JO GRACE: everybody and then when they were comfortable
JO GRACE: and safe enough and sat down again, that meant
JO GRACE: that their mental health had stabilised for
JO GRACE: that moment. So we dealt with a wide
JO GRACE: range of different kinds of
JO GRACE: safeguarding experiences.
JENNIFER DIXON: Thanks, Jo. That sounds like quite a lot
JENNIFER DIXON: of things that worked well when we were
JENNIFER DIXON: doing the programme.
JENNIFER DIXON: Prajapa, have you got any other insights
JENNIFER DIXON: into what made the programme work?
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Jo has covered a lot of what we
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: heard as being benefits of the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: programme and what made it work.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: We heard very similar things during
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the evaluation of the programme as
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: well. But firstly, I think what made
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the programme so popular among the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: children was that it was fun and
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: enjoyable. And as Jo was saying, the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: programme was iterative.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: That is by listening to what was
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: working, by listening to the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: teachers and the children and the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: needs of the classroom, the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: programme was able to adapt, and it
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: did adapt to meet the needs of the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: children, and that was also
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: something that made the programme so
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: live and so effective.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Some of it was adapting the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: resources, some of it was to do with
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: adapting the time that was needed,
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: because some of those activities I
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: think the children took longer.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Even in our evaluation session, we
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: realised that the plan we had before
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: we visited the classroom, was a plan
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: that we could not follow to a T
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: because it took time.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Children engaged with it in
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: different ways and we needed just to
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: be flexible right through it and be
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: responsive, listening and engaging
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: in a way that suited the children,
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: in a way that they were able to take
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: on board and understand and make use
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: of. And I think it was similar with
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the programme as well, when they
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: were delivering it. We had prepared
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: sheets of lesson plans, but, when it
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: was time for delivery, you had to
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: read the room, you had take on board
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: whether it was just soon after PE or
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: soon after lunch and there was a lot
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: of energy in the room, or it was
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: time to go home and therefore
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: children were already packing their
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: bags. So you needed to take all of
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: that into account and you really do
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: appreciate so much what the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: environment does for children and
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: their ability to absorb new
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: learning, participate in activities,
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: et cetera, and what teachers have to
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: do to adapt and how flexible they
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: need to be every day of a school
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: week.
JENNIFER DIXON: I think I can add to that as well, Prajapa. Some
JENNIFER DIXON: of the practical things we did for
JENNIFER DIXON: adaptations were — Jo mentioned the
JENNIFER DIXON: school before that had children speaking
JENNIFER DIXON: 34 languages — we would email the sheets
JENNIFER DIXON: to teachers in advance so they could
JENNIFER DIXON: upload to the tablets they were using.
JENNIFER DIXON: The tablets had translation tools on them
JENNIFER DIXON: so that meant they could be interpreted
JENNIFER DIXON: for the children in their language, so
JENNIFER DIXON: that made it more accessible for them.
JENNIFER DIXON: We had a couple of children who had
JENNIFER DIXON: visual impairments, so we created larger
JENNIFER DIXON: text versions and the teacher would tell
JENNIFER DIXON: us what size that child could read at,
JENNIFER DIXON: and we adapted it all and then sent that
JENNIFER DIXON: across. So it wasn't an extra task on the
JENNIFER DIXON: teacher when we were actually in the
JENNIFER DIXON: schools, we did all that part for them.
JENNIFER DIXON: Those planning meetings that we had would
JENNIFER DIXON: always help because we would ask if there
JENNIFER DIXON: was any requirements like that before
JENNIFER DIXON: we'd started the programme, and it gave
JENNIFER DIXON: us time to prepare and make sure that all
JENNIFER DIXON: those children could feel included.
JENNIFER DIXON: One other thing that made it work
JENNIFER DIXON: was the resources that delivered the
JENNIFER DIXON: programme. So we had the class teacher
JENNIFER DIXON: and two NSPCC staff members facilitating
JENNIFER DIXON: and delivering the sessions, and that
JENNIFER DIXON: facilitated really safe conversations
JENNIFER DIXON: with children. Nobody was left out.
JENNIFER DIXON: There was a staff [member] and teacher
JENNIFER DIXON: around to support any child who
JENNIFER DIXON: needed to have a conversation during any
JENNIFER DIXON: of the activities that were run.
JENNIFER DIXON: So the consistency of that team of
JENNIFER DIXON: facilitators was also something that was
JENNIFER DIXON: really valuable within the programme
JENNIFER DIXON: design. Another key feature that made the
JENNIFER DIXON: programme work is that it was delivered
JENNIFER DIXON: by individuals who are trained and
JENNIFER DIXON: confident in managing difficult
JENNIFER DIXON: conversations and safeguarding concerns.
JENNIFER DIXON: So anyone that delivers this type of
JENNIFER DIXON: programme must respond to safeguarding
JENNIFER DIXON: disclosures in a trauma-informed way.
JENNIFER DIXON: They need to have robust safeguarding
JENNIFER DIXON: procedures in place or be supported by
JENNIFER DIXON: the NSPCC to develop them.
JENNIFER DIXON: So Prajapa, you mentioned there about
JENNIFER DIXON: being trauma-informed.
JENNIFER DIXON: Jo, do you think you could tell me more
JENNIFER DIXON: about how practitioners can be
JENNIFER DIXON: trauma-informed when delivering emotional
JENNIFER DIXON: resilience work?
JO GRACE: I think that's an essential skill in any kind
JO GRACE: of work that we do, but particularly when
JO GRACE: working with children, because we hear children
JO GRACE: share really difficult feelings; and on some
JO GRACE: occasions there were significant safeguarding
JO GRACE: disclosures that were shared as well.
JO GRACE: So whoever delivers the programme needs to have
JO GRACE: had some training to be able to identify and
JO GRACE: manage safeguarding concerns, but also to have
JO GRACE: had some training in trauma-informed
JO GRACE: approaches or to be trauma-sensitive;
JO GRACE: to understand how to be with
JO GRACE: a child in their feelings, that it's not just
JO GRACE: about finding solutions, but actually it can be
JO GRACE: sitting with those difficult words, difficult
JO GRACE: feelings that children are sharing and
JO GRACE: not having any judgement around any
JO GRACE: of that, but allowing children the space to
JO GRACE: actually feel safe with that adult and
JO GRACE: to feel listened to and heard.
JO GRACE: I think both those skills go hand-in-hand, both
JO GRACE: in terms of safeguarding and in any kind of
JO GRACE: trauma-informed approach.
JO GRACE: I think it's really essential that
JO GRACE: organisations ensure that any
JO GRACE: staff that would be in place facilitating a
JO GRACE: programme like this would have also
JO GRACE: things like good supervision and also good
JO GRACE: wellbeing pathways, because sometimes you are
JO GRACE: dealing with difficult subject matters.
JO GRACE: So it's important to make sure that staff are
JO GRACE: well looked after and well-trained and
JO GRACE: are able to deliver the programme consistently,
JO GRACE: but in a team, not just as individuals
JO GRACE: like we said at the beginning.
JO GRACE: We always did this with two staff plus a
JO GRACE: teacher to ensure that there was enough people
JO GRACE: around so that if anything did arise,
JO GRACE: there was still people there while someone
JO GRACE: could step out and deal with whatever the
JO GRACE: difficulty was. I think making
JO GRACE: sure that it's in the
JO GRACE: right hands of the people that understand
JO GRACE: empathy and being able to hold those
JO GRACE: feelings and understanding what talking about
JO GRACE: feelings may result in, which can result in
JO GRACE: disclosures or big feelings that are hard
JO GRACE: to manage, then that's a really positive
JO GRACE: approach as well.
JO GRACE: A really essential approach.
JENNIFER DIXON: We've talked a lot about the positives of
JENNIFER DIXON: the programme. Prajapa, could you tell me
JENNIFER DIXON: a bit more about what the challenges were
JENNIFER DIXON: around delivering the emotional resilience
JENNIFER DIXON: programme?
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Yes I can, Jen, and I think rather
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: than challenges, I would frame it as
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: learning because there was so much
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: learning for the NSPCC during the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: planning and also the delivery of
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the programme, as we heard through
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the evaluation.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: I'll briefly run through some of the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: key learnings. So firstly, it took
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: time for children to feel
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: comfortable with NSPCC staff.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: They were external presenters and
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the programme required a trusting
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: relationship so that the children
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: were able to share their feelings
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: and really engage in the activities.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Time was key and time was not always
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: afforded to us because we had to fit
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: it all within one classroom time
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: slot within the day.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Secondly, we learned that, because
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: we were delivering it to so many
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: different age groups, a greater
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: variety of delivery methods were
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: needed and it was recommended that
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: sessions included puppets, slides,
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: short videos and pictures to keep
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: the children engaged throughout the
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: one-hour session.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: We learned that some of the resources
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: within the programme had already
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: been introduced to the children
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: through other programmes and events.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: And this showed us the importance of
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: really understanding what programmes
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: exist currently in schools so that
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: we are fully aware of this when
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: introducing any programme or
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: resource kit.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: The evaluation also learned that
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: schools were facing quite a lot of
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: challenges every day with resources
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: and pressures on staff capacity.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: So we need to bear this in mind when
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: scaling up a programme of this
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: nature. This is where the emotional
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: resilience resource pack comes in,
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: as it gives schools and teachers a
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: toolkit to dip in and out of and
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: build into their lesson plans as and
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: when needed.
JENNIFER DIXON: Thanks Prajapa. So, following the success
JENNIFER DIXON: of the programme Jo, largely you in our
JENNIFER DIXON: team, created the facilitator's guide.
JENNIFER DIXON: As Prajapa's mentioned, there's other programmes
JENNIFER DIXON: out there as well.
JENNIFER DIXON: What advice would you give to someone who
JENNIFER DIXON: wants to run and implement their own
JENNIFER DIXON: emotional resilience programme with young
JENNIFER DIXON: people?
JO GRACE: I think the first thing would be absolutely it
JO GRACE: needs to be done in partnership with the
JO GRACE: schools or— actually, as Prajapa had
JO GRACE: mentioned about going downstream, we
JO GRACE: started with the older years and then the
JO GRACE: younger years within the schools.
JO GRACE: We ultimately ended up developing emotional
JO GRACE: resilience for nurseries in the early years as
JO GRACE: well because the need was there at that
JO GRACE: very, very early stage and if we can start
JO GRACE: children's emotional resilience and recognising
JO GRACE: their big feelings, you know, from age three
JO GRACE: onwards, that's an amazing step towards
JO GRACE: building their resilience as they grow into
JO GRACE: adulthood. So working in partnership, I think,
JO GRACE: is key.
JO GRACE: Co-creation is also key.
JO GRACE: Have the feedback from parents, from staff,
JO GRACE: from children, from anybody that's involved in
JO GRACE: it. Take that learning and again,
JO GRACE: like Prajapa mentioned, it's iterative,
JO GRACE: it's a moving process.
JO GRACE: You don't just write it and then get stuck on
JO GRACE: it. You have to learn and adapt as
JO GRACE: things change.
JO GRACE: We eventually found a couple of storybooks that
JO GRACE: worked really well.
JO GRACE: We found a game, Buckaroo, which was a
JO GRACE: wonderful example of getting overloaded with
JO GRACE: your feelings when the donkey bucked.
JO GRACE: And so there was some fun, real fun activities
JO GRACE: built into it. So again, make your programme
JO GRACE: fun, keep it quite short and quite light.
JO GRACE: You want the children to want to come back for
JO GRACE: more. And I suppose the biggest key thing,
JO GRACE: going back to that previous question we just
JO GRACE: discussed, is about the relationships.
JO GRACE: It's about the relationships with whoever's
JO GRACE: facilitating. It's about the relationships with
JO GRACE: the school staff, their teachers, their nursery
JO GRACE: educators, whoever it might be, building that
JO GRACE: safe, trusted, nurturing relationship
JO GRACE: where children feel safe enough to test
JO GRACE: out and talk about their big feelings and
JO GRACE: to share how they're feeling or the things
JO GRACE: they're struggling with so that they can learn
JO GRACE: from that. I think the one other thing that I
JO GRACE: would add is about always ensuring
JO GRACE: that the parents are part of it.
JO GRACE: We used to send information home to parents
JO GRACE: to let them know what we were doing, what
JO GRACE: activities the children were taking part in and
JO GRACE: what the aim of the programme was that we were
JO GRACE: doing with the children.
JO GRACE: They would often go home and tell their parents
JO GRACE: stories about it.
JO GRACE: One of the key features of the programme was
JO GRACE: mindfulness and the children really loved
JO GRACE: the active mindfulness exercises that
JO GRACE: we did. So we taught them things like finger
JO GRACE: breathing and superhero breathing.
JO GRACE: One their favourites was bumblebee breathing
JO GRACE: and we were shared a story by
JO GRACE: a parent about how they were now using that at
JO GRACE: bedtime, as part of the routine.
JO GRACE: Because their child found it really, really
JO GRACE: soothing. And actually the parent was quite
JO GRACE: comforted by it as well, that they would
JO GRACE: breathe together and hum and make this kind of
JO GRACE: buzzing sound together, and they would lie
JO GRACE: there laughing on the bed after they'd done it.
JO GRACE: So just make sure parents are a core part of it
JO GRACE: as well.
JENNIFER DIXON: So from our conversation today, what I'm
JENNIFER DIXON: getting is that we would highly recommend
JENNIFER DIXON: that schools prioritise emotional
JENNIFER DIXON: resilience within their settings, as well
JENNIFER DIXON: as other groups if they can. We've
JENNIFER DIXON: mentioned our facilitator guide, which is
JENNIFER DIXON: just one of the number of different tools
JENNIFER DIXON: available for people.
JENNIFER DIXON: One of the big things that has come across
JENNIFER DIXON: from both you and Prajapa speaking is the
JENNIFER DIXON: importance of being responsive to
JENNIFER DIXON: children and listening, active real
JENNIFER DIXON: listening to children.
JENNIFER DIXON: And making it fun. So they want to come
JENNIFER DIXON: and speak to you and build that trust.
JENNIFER DIXON: But I think we're also just very aware of
JENNIFER DIXON: the capacity constraints for teachers and
JENNIFER DIXON: just quite how much they're balancing
JENNIFER DIXON: within the classroom and how many
JENNIFER DIXON: children's needs that they have to meet
JENNIFER DIXON: all at one time, and it's a very hard
JENNIFER DIXON: job. I think what we learned overall
JENNIFER DIXON: is that actually supporting emotional
JENNIFER DIXON: resilience in children is a collective
JENNIFER DIXON: effort; so that could be your local Scout
JENNIFER DIXON: groups, your Rainbows groups as well, you
JENNIFER DIXON: know, bringing in these topics in loads
JENNIFER DIXON: of different arenas.
JENNIFER DIXON: Just places where children have adults
JENNIFER DIXON: they can lean on that feel trusted and
JENNIFER DIXON: safe, and that they can create this sense
JENNIFER DIXON: of connection and safety with.
JENNIFER DIXON: Thank you for both answering all my
JENNIFER DIXON: questions and speaking with me today.
JO GRACE: Thank you.
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: Thank you! If anyone would like to
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: read our evaluation report on our
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: emotional resilience programme, you
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: can find the link in the show notes
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: attached to this podcast, or on our
PRAJAPA SENEVIRATNE: NSPCC Learning website.
OUTRO: Thanks for listening to this NSPCC Learning
OUTRO: podcast.
OUTRO: At the time of recording, this episode's content
OUTRO: was up to date, but the world of safeguarding and
OUTRO: child protection is ever-changing.
OUTRO: So, if you're looking for the most current
OUTRO: safeguarding and child-protection training
OUTRO: information or resources,
OUTRO: please visit our website for professionals at
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