All right.

This is a popular request inside of the newsletter that goes out

where someone asks, can you cover nesting and what it is, pros and

cons, and just your thoughts on it.

And I'm just going to preface this by saying, in my own personal

experience and working with clients for over a decade, this has backfired

more than what it's been worth.

And I'm gonna talk about two parts of it.

First off.

Nesting can mean just the trial period of you saying you want a

divorce, but you have no plan yet, and you both stay in the same home.

Technically, that is nesting.

You're both there at the same time.

You know you're going through a divorce.

This is a really ugly time where everybody's in their fields and

everybody's super protective and everybody's starting to hire their

attorneys and they're getting information and you're in the same home.

So I want you to understand nesting isn't just the end.

where some people, and this just sounds radical to me, and maybe it's because

I have such a high conflict background, but nesting is what some people pick.

As a way to live the rest of their co-parenting journey, and I just

have so many questions for those of you that choose to do this, but.

A lot of people will keep them family home or keep a home.

The kids never leave that home and parents swing in and out

on the visitation schedule.

So mom and dad would have another location that they live,

maybe a different apartment.

I had one couple that shared the family home when it was their visitation.

They came to the family home, the children never left, and

then they shared an apartment as well, a two bedroom apartment.

And so they were just never.

Around each other at the same time.

One person was at the apartment while one person was with the children,

and then they would swap the following week and do it that way.

And I just have so many questions like, who's fucking cleaning the toilets?

who's buying the groceries for that house?

To me, you're just like, get separate bedrooms in your home

and save a fucking apartment bill.

I don't know.

But then I have so many questions of like when you have a sleepover and

you screw your new partner on your couch, and then your ex comes the next

week and they sit on that couch like.

So many questions, but I digress.

But let's go into why people think this is a good idea.

Number one, it keeps the kids home staying in the same home.

So when you say, Hey, I want a divorce, and neither one of you move

out right now, your kids are still in the same home, so that can feel good.

You know, your kids weren't abruptly altered.

The second that you pick divorce, the kids are still there.

All right?

There's less disruption that way.

Allegedly parents believe it protects their kids emotionally because

they get to keep the family home.

Now, I disagree with this completely, but that's what people think when they

first pick nesting and attorneys, and this is my biggest like gut punch.

Attorneys suggest this and they tell you, Hey, I can't have you leaving

the house, so you need to stay there and stay there as long as possible.

So, let me get this straight.

Larry.

Larry is the lawyer that I refer to that usually gives you bad advice.

Larry is telling me to, hunker down 10 toes in the sand, don't leave the home.

I don't want you abandoning the home.

I don't want you taking the children.

I don't want you to leave the children.

So stay there.

Stay there.

Stay there.

It's the same person I just told a week ago when I hired

them that I was being abused.

It's not good.

It's constant fighting in front of the children.

It's whatever I just told you a week ago, and now you're giving me

the advice to stay in that home.

I have a lot of problem with this because first and foremost, we don't

know how long this divorce is gonna last.

Secondly, we don't know what it's really like for those kids because we're an

adult looking at it through adult eyes.

We don't know how traumatic it is for our children to have to witness

us living in the home together.

While we're going through this divorce process.

Ooh, gross.

And I also just don't like the idea of my life is going to take a turn.

I want a divorce, but I still have to live in the turmoil that

I'm trying to get away from.

It sounds disgusting to me, and it doesn't sound like it's good for my

mental health, but a lot of people pick it because they feel like it's a temporary

thing to do during the divorce where they'll just stay in the home together.

So for today's argument and conversation.

I wanna talk just about people that are divorcing and it takes a long time and you

stay in the same home during the process.

All right, so on paper it sounds really helpful and thoughtful, but we

really don't know what it's like for the kids because if you're anything

like some of the cases that I help with, there's usually one parent that

can follow the basic common sense rules during the divorce process.

And then there's the other parent.

Who acts like an absolute manchild or just idiot or crazy or narcissistic,

selfish, crying all the time, like they're just beside themselves.

They punish everyone in the room all the time.

Right.

And so nesting to me does not seem like a good fit.

Staying in the home together during the divorce doesn't sound like a good fit.

But the other part of it is people stay because they feel

like it's a huge financial strain.

They're not divorced yet.

They haven't separated their money.

And so you don't have the ability to go get another location because

all of our money's going towards the mortgage and the bills and the finance.

And now we have this attorney bills.

So it's not easy for people to have different living

situations during this time.

Right.

And honestly, during this time, the conflict never really fully goes away.

So parents never truly get to separate during this time.

and I think we've touched on it, You just told this person you wanted a divorce,

and they may have agreed or disagreed.

Either way, they probably didn't like the news and now you expect

them to walk around the home.

Cordial, respectful, easygoing, like nothing's changed.

And again, there's some sociopaths out there that will act fine and normal

for certain parts of the day, and then there'll be others that will lose

their shit over absolutely everything.

The thing with nesting is we typically try to talk you into having some basic

common sense rules about when to be home.

When not to be home.

Let me start having the children by myself.

You can have the children by yourself.

Hey, I'm gonna be respectful and move into this bedroom.

You keep your shit in this bedroom, you use this bath.

But high conflict, people don't follow those rules.

They don't follow those schedules.

And so you feel like you've hit insanity when you're going back to your attorney

saying, I need out of this house, and your attorney's like, whoa, pump the brakes.

Sam, I can't have you leaving this house just yet.

Like, you need to stay, okay, Larry, but you're not the one in the house.

You don't know how crazy shit is getting.

I had this client one time, we're gonna pause for a story who her attorney

pushed and pushed and pushed for her to stay in this home two years, two years.

This divorce drug out.

And in that process, his mother moved in because she was in a different

country and their culture, they come and they stay for long periods of time.

And so the mother was in the home, the mother-in-law was in the home for like

six months with a separated conditions of living already in two different bedrooms.

And this mother-in-law was just bird dogging.

This mother the whole time, she never had alone time with her own child.

So when dad would be away at work, the mother-in-law would swoop in and undermine

her, take the child, do things with a child, and it got to the point where

I'm pretty sure that she was poisoned a couple times by the mother-in-law.

Now I'm not here.

It's, you know, alleged.

But I'm telling you what, when it gets to that point where you're

second guessing your food intake, Larry would have to kiss my ass.

I'm going to an apartment.

Or a rental something.

I am not staying in a home where I'm being monitored with cameras.

I have a mother-in-law up my ass, not leaving me alone with my own child.

I have an ex who's talking to my child blatantly wrong, right in front of me.

I'm not staying there for that.

And so when your attorney gives you this advice.

I think this is one where you have to completely disagree if you are just

not safe and not well in that house, and the tension is just so high.

You gotta get out.

I don't care if you move into your mom's basement.

I don't care if you sleep on her fucking couch.

Get out and get your mental health checked.

Make sure you're physically safe.

Make sure your food is food that you should be eating.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like.

Some of these exes go absolutely bonkers when you decide to leave, and

I don't need to be there for that.

I don't need to be there to watch them come for me every day.

I mean, can you imagine being in a home that you were married to somebody for

let's say 10 years and all of a sudden you wake up the next day and there's cameras

everywhere listening and watching your every move, and it's the marital home

and there isn't much you can do about it?

That's not an environment I mentally need to stay in for

the duration of this divorce.

So nesting is not a good fit for everybody.

And not to mention, even though these divorces, drag on and on, at some point

you will move on with relationships and you're in the same home still.

That just gets really, really, really messy.

Okay, so another thing I want attorneys to say and to hear is

just because you want me to stay doesn't mean it's a good fit for me.

So what are you gonna do to get me out?

An attorney has ways to help you get out.

They can message the courts.

They can tell these judges.

They can tell the opposing counsel, again, I'm not here for legal advice,

but they can say, Hey, just because Sam's moving out doesn't mean she's

giving up any rights to the home.

Any possessions in the home, yada, yada, yada.

Insert all the legal jargon there.

But this idea that you have to stay hard and stay in that home, I just can't

agree with during the divorce process.

I don't know about you all, but what I'm seeing across the board on social

media is I see people triggering other people to overreact, and then

they use that overreaction in court.

By leaving a mess in the house.

Continually, continually.

And then, the wife or the husband explodes about the mess.

Now they've recorded you making, you know, having this ship fit of a typical fight

in a marriage, about a mess being left.

And then they're claiming, you know, she's irrational, she's crazy.

She screams and hollers all the time, and then boom, that video's used.

I don't want that for you because you are emotionally

challenged during this process.

You're burnout, you're tired, you're overwhelmed.

All of that is a normal natural response when going through a divorce.

Now you tack on the idea that you are getting watched and listened

to, and I've had clients whose personal spaces are invaded.

I've had women have locks on their doors.

The locks have been broken.

I had a locksmith be called one time so that somebody could get into a bedroom

and read everybody's private thoughts.

And so you should be keeping nothing inside of that home, by the way.

Right.

if that's how bad it is that you have a padlock on your bedroom door,

we should not be in the same home.

We should just not be in the same home.

Nesting is for a very small percentage of people, and it's for

those people that still respect each other, still love each other,

just don't wanna be married anymore.

Always put the children first, and there's people out there like that.

They probably don't follow me, but there's people out there like that.

And I love that for those people, and I think that's great for your child, and

I fucking, I'm jealous of that, that you have that awesome relationship.

But what that encounters is two normal, sane, rational,

respectful, loving human beings.

This is not that.

I, I can't do that.

I'm sorry.

It, it's not for those couples that walk in and tell their attorney, Hey.

I want a divorce.

I told them last night and they threw all my shit out in the front yard.

Well, you know I'm gonna need you to stay in the house.

You know, I walk in and I say, Hey, I told 'em I want a divorce, and they

drained all of our bank accounts.

Well, you know, I'm gonna need you to stay in the same house.

Are you?

Did you not fucking hear what I just said?

You want me to stay in the home where someone has turned a 180?

Is completely going against everything that we did five minutes ago.

don't feel safe there.

Well, it's gonna look bad if you leave.

Okay.

Well, what are you gonna do to make sure it doesn't look bad?

Don't let Larry pressure you into doing the heavy lifting.

I'm pretty sure that's what that fat ass retainer's supposed to be

paying for is for them to do the heavy lifting to make you safe.

If being in that home isn't safe for not only you, but just the presence,

like I'm trying to picture and, you know, excuse me, if this is too callous.

I'm trying to picture what it would've been like if I would've stayed in a

home with my ex during that process.

'cause it took four years for us to get our custody battle figured

out two years to get divorced.

Are you kidding me just that two years alone living in the

same house during that time?

No.

If you know anything about my story, we might as well have been in the

same house because he was watching my ever move from my other house anyways.

But had we been in the same house, those kids would've been told

everything possible bad about me, with me standing right there.

Now what ended up happening is they heard everything bad about me when

I wasn't there, but it would've been right in front of my face.

I would've had zero privacy.

There's no way I would've not felt safe leaving them.

He would've never left me alone with the children.

It just would've not worked out.

one of us would be on Dateline and one of us would be in jail.

That's how that would've ended, and I know that's how it's ending

for a lot of people as well.

So staying in nesting during this divorce process, I think is an old,

old methodology that should have died when old templates for parenting

plans died a long fucking time ago.

All right.

Everything needs to be custom for everybody's specific situations.

But here's the deal.

If you are told that you have to stay in the home, here's just some

basics that I want you to ask for.

Even in your temporary order in, you're in the same home.

You can still put a clear visitation schedule, and I've done this for a

multitude of people that think this is a great idea or they were told it was a

great idea that they had to stay in the same home and they could not listen to my

advice and they thought they knew better.

Most of them figured out that I was right, but a lot of it is still

saying like, even though we're in the same home, we're in seven bedrooms.

You can have the children on Monday and Tuesday nights I will stay gone.

I'll be at the office late, I'll stay at a friend's house, or I

won't come home until eight o'clock.

But if I do come home early, I'll sneak through the back door and

go straight to my room and I won't come out until the kids are in bed.

That worked for one of my couples.

And then Wednesdays and Thursdays the other parent had the children.

And then on weekends they alternated where one person again could freely

go with the kids, plan things for the kids, take the kids, was in charge

of the kids', bath, food, everything.

other parents saw the kids.

But if they said, Hey, we're leaving, they couldn't say shit about it.

They could leave.

And then we always used morning time as a neutral time that both parents, so even

though one parent had Monday and Tuesday evenings, mornings were always that get

ready for school, get ready for work.

Everybody can see the children, engage with the children,

do the children, all that.

But then in the nighttime, as soon as school is over, it was

one parent's responsibility.

And so if it's sporting events, it's your night.

You take them.

Can the other parent attend?

Yes, but the children are starting to get used to the idea.

They're only having one parent care for them each night.

Right.

So that is one little bit of advice, but even when you're building your

temporary order under the same home, we need to make sure we're

hitting the mark of understanding that we gotta talk about the money.

We gotta talk about possession of the home and we gotta talk about decision

making because even though that we're under the same roof, we're not agreeing.

And so I need help and paperwork on helping really understand

what does this look like.

So for me, giving you advice, nesting is just a transitional tool.

It's not a way we're gonna do things in the future, and

it's gonna always be this way.

We're not sharing an apartment and coming back.

And the chil children are resilient.

I know you've heard it.

I've raised kids.

They are.

Kids are gonna be okay, just like kids are okay.

Going to a new classroom every year and having a new teacher, they do just fine.

Just like kids go to different classrooms every day.

They go to art one day, they go to music.

One day, kids transition from house to house, parent to parent.

You can do it too.

They don't need their childhood home.

If it's a ship pile and there's constant fighting and arguing there,

they want a safe home, a stable home.

And if that means there's two great kids will adjust because it's their

story and that's what they have.

Kids wanna adapt to safety, they wanna lean into safety and calmness.

And you two, being together in that home is not that.

So separation is actually going to reduce the exposure to conflict

and stability is what matters most.

And if that means two separate locations, then let's do it.

And here's the deal.

You're a grownass adult.

Your attorney is telling you to stay somewhere as a grown ass adult.

That attorney is not paying those bills.

That attorney is not staying with that house.

That attorney is not in that house, living that questioning your food, questioning.

If you're being recorded, that attorney is not living that life.

You have to do where your mental health will be successful and where your

physical health will be successful.

And for some of you that's not in this house.

That is not in this house.

So I really want you to pay attention to talking to your attorney and making

sure that nesting may work temporarily for a short amount of time for some

families, but it's not for everybody.

It's not gonna be for everybody.

So you have to make sure from the get go that your attorney

knows where you stand on.

Are we sharing the home?

Are we not sharing the home?

How long will this be?

And any attorney that says, oh, just stay there.

It's only gonna be a few weeks.

I don't know about you, but I've been doing high conflict for a

long ass time, and a high conflict divorce does not take a few weeks.

It takes a year, if not 18 months, and you staying in that home that

whole time is not, and I asked the question of this, does your attorney

want you to stay in that home?

Not only because it's an easier thing for them to handle, but number two, it's also

more conflict, which we all know what more conflict creates, more billable hours.

Ask yourself, am I being bamboozled into thinking that I

should stay because this helps.

Who in this story, just my attorney?

It's not helping me.

It's not helping my kids, but it is helping my attorney for an easy case.

No, I'm not doing that.

I am not doing that.