Maisie: Page 94: the Private Eye Podcast.
Helen: Hello and welcome to another of page 94.
My name is Helen Lewis and I'm filling in for Andrew Hunter Murray,
who has this week sadly failed.
Developed Vetting
I'm in the Private Eye studio with Adam Ian Hislop and Saba Salman,
editor of Rotten Boroughs, The local elections are coming up and it's
gonna be a splintering, of Britain as people vote against Labour and the
Tories where they're still standing.
What does the picture look like?
Saba: Let me paint you a little picture of Sunderland.
Come with me as I take you to one of the Reform rallies
Helen: Yes.
'cause that is when Nigel Farage of Reform launched his campaign.
So he must be pretty confident of winning it or that would be quite embarrassing.
Saba: Absolutely.
I'll just take you to Sunderland with me now.
So if you picture scene 2000 strong stadium room, , big lights, music
to announce all of the speakers and, that you may not know,
it's called Street Rev Anthem.
By an electronica, pop producer,
Helen: Why is Nigel France got better taste in music than me?
That's
Saba: wrong.
Yeah.
Helen: actually Nigel, I was gonna say, coming into, so Fred.
But unfortunately that's, my brain has supplied that because Nigel
Fra does often sing along to imt.
Sexy by Right said Fred.
That's
Saba: right.
small mercies know Andrew Jenkins singing her own tune,
so at least that's something.
so yeah, so in Sunderland he's basically, banging on about the same thing, which
is low tax, community voices, which is what local counselors do anyway.
So not, difficult, promise to make.
Ian: and they don't set the tax.
Saba: They well.
Council tax is set at a local level with guidance by government.
But I think what's interesting with the reform, promises on this, as we've
said in rotten boroughs, is that a lot of the reform councils have come in and
said, we're not going to raise taxes.
We're going to actually cut taxes.
And what's happened is they have raised them, but the way it's being
pedalled is: we've got the lowest raises in the country, therefore
we're sticking to our manifesto.
So it's a cheeky way of retaining that popularity.
However, over in, Worcestershire, which we've, again covered in
the boroughs, they've raised their council tax there by 9%.
So there's a, again, that same thing, the gap between what's being
promised and what's actually Being
Adam: And I've seen Farra desperately backpedaling on
that and saying Absolutely not.
I never said taxes would go down.
Saba: Yes.
And I hate
Adam: you play in lots of clips of lots of other
people
Saba: people.
Absolutely.
So I think when we're in charge, I hate to be fair to Nigel Farage,
but the fact is that, he hasn't actually gone on their record to
say, I am not going to be raising.
Local council tax, there's a general kind of implication that taxes
will be lower, across the board.
And if you are lucky enough to have one of the, reform leaflets plop onto your
doorstep as I had recently, that's one of the sort of the five commitments,
Helen: Oh, no,
I did notice if you read the Sunday Times profile of the 19-year-old.
reform council leader.
He did manage to fight off everyone else to have a, lower rate of council tax.
I wanna ask you, can you remember what it is that he keeps in his office?
Saba: He keeps a bear in his office.
Adam: An
Ian: actual
Saba: No,
Adam: Like Lord Byron,
Saba: No, he keeps a stuffed bear.
I believe it's on loan from the local
museum.
Is
Ian: Finch?
Saba: George?
this is
Finch?
George Finch.
So George Finch is in Warwickshire.
Helen: I really should clarify on the bear.
I thought teddy bear, then I saw
the
Saba: No,
Helen: and No, it's about five foot tall.
It's a taxidermied bear
Adam: because the symbol of warwickshire is a bear, isn't it?
Helen: Yeah.
Bear and
stone.
Adam: yeah,
Saba: Yes.
But more importantly, bears are big and buff and scary.
And I think, for a 19-year-old, nothing against young 19 year olds, but.
That's the image that he wants to
Ian: That's one of the least convincing things I've
Adam: We're recording this
in the center so I can recommend a couple of pubs if he wants to go
and meet some very big rugged bears.
Saba: I'll pass that on
Adam: They're very fond of 19 year olds, actually.
Quite a lot of
them.
Helen: Let's,
Ian: move.
We're indebted to you.
Helen: from the
Saba: the point in Sunderland, just to end on Sunland, all of the 75 seats Rock for
election, and obviously reform is, making.
That one of their big targets.
Ian: is this what we are meant to be looking for is that reform isn't just
home counties, it's not seaside towns.
It is.
It can make it in the big, post-industrial North.
Saba: Yes,
exactly that.
So I think that one interesting thing is that the amount of candidates, Helen,
you mentioned that the thousands of people that's standing reform is fielding
candidates in about 95% of seats.
and I, went onto the reform website just for research purposes to see what
it would take to stand as a candidate.
And, obviously the nominations have closed now, but before that.
It was very clear they were very keen for as many candidates, many people
as possible to stand and clearly said, no experience necessary, which given
the state of local government now bankruptcies pressure on services,
you really want somebody in there who knows what they're doing.
Helen: in Scotland Reform have had five MSP candidates.
Have to withdraw from the ballot.
Would you like to guess any of the things that they've done?
What are the kind of things you think a reform candidate might do that
mean that they have to withdraw?
Ian: is it social media posting?
Helen: Funny you should say that Linda Holt called Hum Yusaf former s and p
leader and Islam is moron and many things.
In that case, her partner stood down in solidarity with
her, which is very, moving.
Any more ideas about why you might have to stand down as a reform candidate?
Ian: anything to do with Bitcoin?
Helen: Not as yet.
There's two of them who said that they didn't intend to
stand, and it was an error.
No,
Adam: That's quite,
Ian: That's
quite,
Adam: we've stood for Parliament
by accident
Helen: We've got a holiday by mistake.
and then the final one was, a classic, an old classic, a bit like Bitcoin,
allegations of financial misconduct linked to a COVID bounce back loan.
Saba: It's
guys
Helen: the old cla, the old classics.
But yeah.
Whereas, the Greens have had similar troubles.
They've had two different people had to withdraw for saying that,
first saying that the gold is green, ambulance arson was a false flag,
and then one upgraded it, saying that the October 7th attacks there
on Israel, they were also false flag.
Both those had to pull out.
So I think that speaks to the fact that.
you've been covering this about reform.
they've got in a lot of warm bodies, but not all of them competent, warm
Saba: bodies.
also dead bodies.
We've had a reform candidate, mayoral candidate last year who, who'd
actually been dead for six months.
Helen: don't be So, alives Sava,
Adam: But
is always, there has been the traditional people who are
sort of paper candidates, Yes.
who are put forward so that you can show, presumably this is the aim
with this is that Nigel Frost can
say, we've got this enormous
of candidates look at,
Saba: Absolutely.
And Liz, trust's husband was one of those paper candidates.
Adam: for
reform.
Saba: For, no, not for reform.
Apologies for the
conservatives.
haven't
Adam: that.
right?
Saba: Yeah.
No, I
think
we might have reported that tips.
Adam: aren't they?
Saba: At the moment.
yes.
Although she has made, yeah, she's
so spiritually reformed
Helen: days.
I can only assume that s Nigel Frog's going, no, get away
Saba: from me.
Yeah, you
Helen: can't
anywhere.
Adam: but that is quite a risk, isn't it?
Because in the last set of like collections, I remember there were several
people we were put up effectively as paper candidates for reform, did get in
and then regretted it and dropped out
Saba: immediately
after.
And,
that is exactly what's happened with reform with the 10, the 10 councils
that the reform won last year, 677 counselors and a lot of them have, did
not expect to actually have to do the job.
And they've got there and been shocked and have been quite crap.
but to go back to
Ian: is that a
technical
Helen: term?
Yeah.
Saba: It's, high sort of local government
Ian: jargon.
Yes.
Yeah.
Council
responsibility and
protection
is it?
Saba: there are certain things that you need to do as a counselor and
for example, not breaking the code for con turn up is one of them.
Turn up is another one.
yeah, maybe don't, be offensive.
racist, misogynistic might be another.
But to go back to the, to the green thing, what's interesting, in terms of vetting.
Is, we've had these problems with reform because of the surge
of, the number of candidates.
And there's a similar thing going on with the greens, which again, we've
talked about in rotten boroughs, where I think there's been about 50, defections.
I think all from Labour to the greens, across the country.
Zach Polanski has said, almost don't blame me because we've got
all these people coming, so we can't possibly keep tabs on all of them.
That's massively paraphrasing, by the way, in case anyone, picks me up on that.
recently
Ian: he's quite assertive
his
counter, attack.
I think it's part of the, PR drive.
But, the problem with the green candidates they're putting up is not
that they're too green or they're extremist green, it's that they
don't seem to express much interest in the environment over the years.
And they're mostly interested
in different types
of politics.
TA hamlets, the lofter mob, they weren't known for their aggressive
environmental stance, were they?
No, that
Saba: that wasn't
the big
thing for them.
I, believe that when the many stories that we've run in the eye, were not
really about their green credentials No.
At all.
But these are people who are desperate for power.
I don't wanna use the word hypnotic, magnetism of Polanski, but there's
something there isn't there?
We have, a story recently in rotten boroughs where there was a, former tower
Hamlet's Labour,
Saba: counselor, also a loyalist, for Lutfur Rehman.
the current aspire,
Helen: friend of the eye,
Saba: favorite of the eye, and he was booted out because he.
Was supporting the independents.
He's recently resurfaced while campaigning on behalf of the
independents down in Sour Hamlets.
He scooted up to barking and dham to support one of
the new green counselors who
used to be Labour,
Saba: who defected to the greens.
Are you with me?
Are
you following?
Yes.
Defected to
the,
Adam: defected
Saba: to the greens, because
apparently of the, Labour stance on
Saba: Gaza, however, he didn't say anything
about the Labour.
Stance on
Saba: Gaza before he'd defected and in fact was deselected.
so he's up there campaigning.
Ian: he
also have a record?
Saba: This is the character who was, done for housing fraud.
Ian: Yes.
I'm just
mentioning it
Saba: in
terms of, and I'm
not
Ian: sure being
elected to local
Saba: government.
No, exactly.
But I mean it, going back to the vetting thing, it's that thing of
him standing there with Zach Polanski brandishing a bright green vote green.
Helen: I think some people just like to be near something that seems
exciting and new and they're like, and that's, that is Zach Polanski
Saba: They do and they like to photograph it and they like to put it
on social media and then it's spotted.
Adam: I think with the vetting thing, I've seen this with all the Mandels and stuff
in the last week, just develop vetting.
Should we just throw open the private eye archive to these people?
That's all you really need, isn't it?
It's free stuff.
Yeah.
in the case of Little Manson, 'cause what you need is someone to just go.
No,
No, it's Peter Mandelson, which would've an awful lot of
problems.
Yeah.
So
Helen: Anyway, that
Adam: Peter
back to local
Helen: Yeah, and I think that's the thing.
You feel that on one level, councils have not got a great deal of
control over lots of stuff, right?
Most of them are burdened by adult social care and that's where the
majority of their budget goes and there's really that limits their actions.
However, if it's stuff like getting your mate up the housing waiting
list, then actually there are things as a counselor you can do.
The temptations that counselors feel are often in the sort of
nepotism kind of variety, aren't
Saba: they?
Absolutely.
Nepotism backhanders, and that's the stuff of, rotten burs really.
But yes, many examples where people have, been very kind to their chums and
helped them with, planning or housing.
Helen: talking, we now criticize reform and, And the greens.
So let's talk about a
really crap Labour council and
Helen: Birmingham.
I don't think that, that's not unfair, is That's
Saba: at all.
Helen: The bins, the bankruptcy.
That's right.
Something else.
Begin with
Saba: be, but yeah.
One of Britain's most bankrupt, councils.
it's the largest in Europe and all the 101 seats are up for election.
this is another one that's likely to go into no overall control, which, we are
seeing increasing numbers of this and when
first
Ian: is that necessarily a bad thing?
Saba: mean,
Ian: control
hasn't been great
Saba: No,
Ian: In Birmingham, has
Saba: it.
no, you would think it would be a positive thing because you
then have more local debate.
you don't have a party political stance.
But certainly in all the years I've been covering local government, I've
noticed that, the no overall control thing used to be far more rare.
Because we just had the two, three main parties, and now that's being fractured.
We are getting councils that are hung, councils that are minority
administration, which, may be led
nominally by Labour or lib dem,
Saba: but really it's by a few seats and that makes it really
difficult for decisions to get through, for budgets to be set.
Everything just becomes harder to find agreement on.
So technically it should be better 'cause you're not following the party line.
That's not an agenda.
But the nuts and bolts of getting things done essentially is harder
And
Adam: increasingly presumably getting more difficult because some
political, views are, splintering more people are going more to, extremes.
and mean, potentially we're gonna end up with
hung
that are half reform and half green, aren't we?
Which
is hard to see.
the conservatives and the Lib Dems always work very, well together at a
level in local government, which I think is why the Lib Dems in 2010 thought,
oh, we could do this in national government, It all go really, well.
Didn't work out for them.
Spoiler earth.
Saba: Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam: But it's gonna be very difficult when people have that politically
Saba: Exactly.
and Birmingham, to take that example, I think there's about 45,
just 45 councils due to exchange.
Hands in, in, the next elections May 7th.
But to go back to Birmingham, that's an interesting one.
Kenny Badnock went down to Birmingham and made it known that she would not oppose
a conservative reform coalition locally.
not nationally.
and Unite the Union, which is obviously involved in the, bin strikes.
For the last year, we've had the strikes, over refuse workers, unite The
Union has had secret talks with reform.
Helen: Imy.
Saba: Yeah.
So it's all kicking off.
Ian: Is it
to
resolve that dispute by anyone?
I'm just asking
because
it,
Saba: it, I, can't see how, the whole backdrop of, the, RAO over the bin
workers, the, there's an equal pay row as well, so some sort of 700
or million, The council declared effective bankruptcy back in 2023.
It's been helped by government, so it's got this exceptional
financial support so it can borrow, it's an absolute dire strait.
So that's an example of where, I don't know what the solution is
to any of those things apart from borrowing more money from government.
Helen: Right.
I, you can tell me if you were canvased.
I, live in Lewiston.
We were canvased by some very nice greens who
were former Labour people.
And
Helen: one of the things they said is, we want to end austerity.
And I was like, sounds good, but with what money?
I don't think the Lewis Fromm Council is secretly sitting on a,
smog pot of gold that they've just been cruelly refusing to disburse up
until now.
Saba: 30 odd councils now have had this handout from government.
But
a
Ian: a
number
of our
letter
writers make this point.
Yes.
But a handout from the government to local council is not a handout.
It's taxpayers money being spent in different ways.
if central
government underfunds councils, which.
Is, a criticism.
then councils
borrow from them.
they're not exactly begging are they?
they're trying to find a restitution of some balance Yeah.
Yes.
between the two types of taxpayers.
Saba: That's right.
And, while all that's going on, the pressure to provide those adult
social care services, Support and how all of that's still continuing.
So really it's a pretty difficult picture out there.
Adam: There's a big narrative I remember from the last lot of local
elections, which was all we're gonna come in and we're gonna cut waste
and we're gonna cut DEI initiatives and all that kind of thing.
And the experience, once people got into power was, seemed to be
that actually, you can do a bit of that, but the sort of sums of money,
money, the.
are fractional.
Not to say there isn't waste in local government.
Of course there is.
You, write about it constantly in, in your column, but they're fractional compared
with the act, the adult social care budget and all those kind of big things.
has that sort of gone away as a narrative now or are people still pushing?
There is, some money down the back of the sofa.
Saba: I think a certain reform councils are still ping that myth of massive
Helen: but we'll take down the progress flag of the 10 hall and
that's a hundred million pounds.
Saba: you have a statutory duty.
To look after people in your area who need support, and that costs money.
People are living longer.
People need social care.
That is your responsibility.
taking down the flag.
it's
Not gonna bring the sums that you think it's going to bring.
and so therefore you have to raise council tax.
Ian: and a lot of the
problems that your column, exposes are councils think we haven't got any money.
Here's an idea.
Usually involving outsourcing something or investing in some traditionally
council activity that we go in
with private sector and it all goes wrong.
Saba: Absolutely.
Yeah.
Going with the private sector, whether that's through housing or schools,
housing is another one that we've covered a huge amount where a lot of councils
are, were launching, their own housing companies or regeneration companies and
playing it, being private sector players.
and it's gone absolutely.
Tits
Up.
Ian: And they claim this is
desperation that they have to do this.
obviously we're not buying that 'cause we right about it.
But, that's pressure
from,
having no other sources of income,
presumably.
Yes.
Apart right.
Apart from raising the
Saba: council
tax.
It is, and it's, I think, you know what people often forget, successive
governments have cut back on these main areas that, that councils have
to, so while the, responsibility is still there, the supply of the cash
that's gonna help them meet that responsibility is, year on year shrinking.
I think
One thing actually in some of these cases with the housing companies and the
regeneration companies that are launched, I think it's not just about money.
I think we've proved it's also about the glitz and the glamor of, robbing
shoulders with the big developers and Going to conferences abroad that
Helen: are, that's, one of my biggest groans during this campaigning season was,
a Davy leader of the Lib Dems saying that he wants to impose a duty on every new,
housing development to have a GP surgery.
And it was just like, yes, what we should do is just put one more
restriction on house building.
That's, the charm
Adam: We haven't enough of.
Let's put them
together.
Saba: together.
This little, a bit of a problem as well in the health sector
with gps, supply and hours.
And,
Helen: oh, also one of the things is that every new development is
often subject to that judicial review and then planning appeals.
So if you are building that gp, if you're a gp, do you want to move into
somewhere that in three years time there might be some houses there or depending
whether or not the residents have taken it all the way to the high court?
No, in fact they won't be.
Or that, they found a new bear or something
Saba: that.
Adam: Although the resident's
blood pressure will have gone up so much that you will have quite
a few kind of patients coming in
Helen: as a
result of that.
That's
true.
on the no overall control thing.
So there're currently 32 councils outside London that are no overall control.
Sam Freeman in a very good substack about the local collections said he
thinks there's probably gonna be another, 32 outside London at the end of this.
So that's really the story of these elections isn't, it's
like we hate the mainstream.
If you've still got a Tory council, you're gonna register.
You hate them, but mostly if
you've got a Labour council,
Helen: you're gonna register that you hate them.
Saba: that fracture is really interesting on one hand
you've got Labour and Tory,
Saba: local candidates distancing themselves, but over here you've got
reform and, Greens, digging up the cult of personality with Polanski and Farage.
So it's really interesting.
And over in Durham, we talked about Durham earlier.
they've got a life-sized cardboard cutout of Nigel Farage in their
reform meeting room, which they cut off to the, the main council chamber.
So I think they must have been really excited when they
had the rally in Sunland.
'cause they had the real guy
Helen: there.
That's tragic.
' cause Donald Trump is hoping for gold statues and Britain
being Britain, we've got, we've
Adam: cutter
hostile
Saba: cost of living crisis even
Adam: reform.
I love that
Helen: what slightly retro fact became obvious at the Scottish
party leaders televised debate,
Ian: It
was on the wireless,
Helen: sent a pigeon individually to each Scottish voters' home
with the results of who'd won.
Tragically not, although that would be charming.
they're men.
It's been a big turnabout in Scottish from the Halian Days of Kesier.
Doug Dale, Ru Davidson, Nicholas Sturgeon having three main parties.
Yep.
No, it's all chaps.
The hypocrisy is returned to Scotland.
Joanna Cherry, former SMP MP has left the SMP in fairly spectacular fashion,
where a book coming out, keeping the Dream alive, which details have fallout
with Nicholas Sturgeon and the party.
What did she claim that the s and p wanted to melt down in 2018?
Ian: Was
it their gold Very
Helen: handsome.
it was a bust of Alex Salmon.
Yeah,
she says that, the, party was only too keen to move on from
the Alex examined era when he
Adam: Oh, sorry.
I was
still with, it
wasn't a gold bust of Alex Ab
I'm
still
Helen: thinking
I think the s and p have got that much
money.
Adam: okay.
Helen: Some sort of Barnet
Adam: they did really like him for quite a long time, didn't they?
Yes.
Before they
decided they didn't,
do have an amazing ability to fall out with each other horribly.
At the top of s and p, don't they?
Ian: but are they going to get in again?
again?
Helen: they'll be the largest party, I think on the predictions.
Yes.
I don't who so well as previously discussed reform of, had a bit of
a mayor, their leader made a very unpleasant, homophobic joke about George
Michael a, like a rugby club dinner.
A
always,
Adam: but it was too
strong even for the rugby club dinner
Helen: apparently
Adam: Gasp was in the room,
which
Helen: is got quite a high tolerance for these things and I read it and I oh no,
I don't think
so.
So they've had, and they've had the.
Many candidates withdraw their press officer has, stepped down.
So they are still in the slightly, like the basket case,
organizational stage that's gonna, that's gonna count against them.
yeah.
Even though the s and p have
been in government
for an incredibly long luckily fresh faced John Sweeney.
Yes.
The, current and former first minister, what does he want to do to chickens?
Saba: Reduce their cost,
Helen: How does he
plan to do this boat than the boat?
16 year olds chicken?
Adam: that's the way to get
it above 60%, isn't
Helen: but how does he want to make them cheaper?
Specifically?
Adam: He wants a price on various sort of basics across all supermarkets,
Helen: doesn't
he?
He does.
He wants a, series of like essential items to be capped
in
price,
Adam: milk, eggs, cheese I saw, The problem with that one surely is
that who does cost get passed onto?
Because I already you've got dairy farmers and, egg farmers
in pretty perilous position.
'cause they've been beaten down by the supermarkets.
Yeah.
You've got.
got.
A
very big farming constituency in Scotland, I would say.
Say that's causing you
problems.
I was
in str the other week outside the caledonian cheese company, makers
of, seriously
strong cheddar.
very strong.
call, it's seriously strong.
No, it's just every supermarket you go to in Britain, and bizarrely in Scotland,
they, dye orange for no apparent reason.
And
you ask them, why do you dye your cheddar orange?
then no one knows.
It's just a
bizarre
Helen: dem cheddar.
It's what
It's what's
Saba: the, what, about the impact on smaller shops then?
Because that's supermarkets,
isn't
Adam: Is only
the big
Saba: so
yeah.
Helen: He said wants it.
I'm just gonna be crude and say it doesn't make sense.
you can't, like he doesn't have the power to do, he can't, he's not a comisa.
He doesn't do price controls.
It would, in any case, the supermarkets work on very thin margins.
You can't have like corner shops now being mandated.
So we wouldn't, they would be excluded,
Saba: they would lose out massively.
Adam: You see all the, supermarket market advertising, which along with,
betting is the only thing that's propping up print newspapers at the moment.
All of their adverts at the moment about, ah, Marmite is cheaper than Aldi's.
they are all competing right there.
So the kind of, profits to be made on it.
are, tiny margins
Saba: anyway.
Definitely.
My local supermarket a couple of years ago was giving
away chickens.
Dead.
Dead
Helen: ones,
Oh,
Saba: Oh,
Helen: that's really
Ian: honest point.
Saba: Which I, yeah.
Ian: but
this is part
of your theory, Helen, that the voter must be bailed out at all costs.
So if there is a cost of living crisis, then food will have to be subsidized.
it's everything now, isn't
Helen: it,
it's sad that we've given up on, on growth and wage growth particularly, and then
there's very strong wage compression at the bottom end between minimum
wage, now about 22, 20 3000, and then there's a huge chunk of the economy.
It's just.
All around there.
And then very few people the,
higher bands.
So instead of making it so that people are getting higher wages per hour,
let's try and find ways to give them money, which is, things, like the energy
price cap, become very popular, but
Ian: but giving away money as a, an electoral, strategy used to be
a bit of a joke, but it
isn't,
Helen: but it is cheap chicken.
Okay.
Let's do whale very quickly.
I've got a question for you.
Who characterized the Senate elections as a choice between tolerance or division,
progress or decay, defiance or deference?
Culture or ignorance?
Humanity or indifference?
Adam: Was it chat, GPT?
Helen: I
think you've made a very cruel assertion there about, ENA rinna Gilworth
reply, Ry, that's how he framed it.
But the reason I mention this is that his final two binaries,
it's not X, it's Y, which.
Grant you as
little chat.
GBT
was Ply Cual Reform.
That's how he's fighting that election.
Ian: Well,
there isn't anyone else in Wales
Helen: anymore.
We just that's gonna be a really interesting one to watch in, terms of
psychologically for
Labour.
Losing whales
Helen: would
be a big deal.
Alina Morgan, their leader there, has said would work with ply.
So they may find a way if they are the first and second largest But it also
illustrates something that's been a theme of what we've been talking about,
which is there are now two blocks in British, politics and people can circulate
between Labour.
SMP applied
Helen: to the greens, that's the left block, and then the
tourism reform.
Categorize the right block and they're cannibalizing each other's votes.
Ian: Can I just say restore Oh,
Helen: yeah.
sorry.
mentioned
Saba: Restore.
yes.
Interesting one Who are standing?
No,
they're
not
they're not they're not standing
candidates,
but what they are doing is backing, great Yame first.
so Rupert Lowe, found a Restore, that's his constituency.
and That
Helen: I just love this
Saba: America First
We can't restore Britain.
We're just gonna do it less ambitious.
This is more
manageable.
Ian: No, this is
gonna work.
Make Yarmouth great.
Saba: Great again.
Exactly.
And the last I looked, he had been, promising, to put up the five pound
membership fee for the first 500.
I believe it was, members of Great Yarmouth first.
Helen: if you need any more great Yarmouth news, then Saba's
column is the place to check out.
I dunno, why I've made that commitment on your behalf.
Sorry about that.
this week would've been the Queen's hundredth birthday.
And
whenever
I hear an occasion like that, I think Adam, is there a quiz
Saba: to
be had?
Adam: It may well be.
It's of
course only her, unofficial hundredth birthday
because
the queen has two birthdays.
two
cakes, two lots of presents.
She's got the, tripping the color, isn't it?
On the, is it June the seventh?
I
think
so.
I think birthday.
I think Charles has now inherited
as, now the King's official birthday
Yeah.
as
well,
which is
just,
Helen: that's weird.
isn't
Adam: it?
Inherited
Ian: birthday.
Can I just Clarify,
She, isn't
actually a though, is she?
'cause she's died?
Adam: No,
she
has been
dead for, the last
few of those years.
Ian: nevertheless, 'cause I've been reading the
papers and
there's at least 27 new, biographies out
and I just,
none
of
them
make it entirely clear.
Helen: actually, as we've been on Arian, it's been revealed that she's
alive.
Ian: Oh
Adam: good.
And she's
here
now?
No.
Saba: she's standing for which council
Ian: Up Paddington?
Adam: No,
I think it's interesting actually.
I mean 'cause we're now, now what?
Four years?
since since the Queen And I have really noticed, I I.
Change in tone of the kind coverage, which a lot
of it has come through.
We have the announcement this week that the official is going
to be written.
a historian has been appointed in that, a historian who
wrote, best known for the book.
She wrote about the, interregnum, the, the, time when
Cromwell
was in charge, which is quite an interesting, and
Okay, that's the right, yeah.
which is gonna be the really interesting one 'cause she presumably will get access
to all of those papers that otherwise remain, locked up the bowels of Windsor,
of Windsor Castle with the, The the terms Valley Police kinda saying, could we have
a look at them?
'cause some stuff
in there about
Prince Andrew.
Maybe
she'll get access to them first.
It'll be a bit
of a race.
But also there's a big Robert Hardman.
how many
Royal Books is Robert Harden written by now?
But this, one apparently is, his new take
on the Queen and
is a bit of a new take going on.
I've, two I've really, noticed in, in, in, Royal coverage just in the last few
weeks is there seems to be a moment where.
The
columnists decided that Beatrice and Eugenie were up for being criticized.
They, it's always been a case of,
you say
whatever you about Andrew, whatever you want about Fergie,
but two princesses, they, shouldn't be blamed
for whatever their parents had done.
And seemed
to be literally one week where suddenly Jan Moyer and,
Helen: Janice Turner noticed that Eugenie had one of those charities that has lots
of big fundraising galas, but doesn't seem to actually give out very much
money to what you might term people who
needed
Adam: Yes.
Yeah.
And in fact, I wrote a, think, I wrote a column that says it was, the headline
was something nice, just pull your finger out usually or something, wasn't
it?
Which was a
sort of tenor of royal coverage
really.
But the other thing that I've noticed particularly I
think this is about these new
biographies, is that
there is now a willingness to criticize the queen for her role in bringing
up Andrew and making him the that
he.
In a way that would've been completely unthinkable directly after her death,
when was very much veneration and, and, and, and, and, and, a life of
service and no criticism whatsoever.
So
there is kind of, change in, that.
And I think it's really interesting.
just looking, so I'm writing a book at the moment, which is said in 1993
at the, height
of the War of the Wales is, and the, difference.
Even everything I'm saying about Andrew now
is that the
tone of Royal reporting then
was, was the point where we were
getting royal phone calls recorded and turning up with, Charles's
mistress and Squidgy who was a Diana's gentleman friend as well, which
is.
There
was this extraordinary sort of free for all in the tabloids for a
while.
then Princess Diana died, it flipped back in you had that younger generation
and a very much a feeling that the intrusion into, Harry and, William's
life was, completely unacceptable.
And I just think it's slightly starting to swing back in this direction.
I think it's interesting as well as you always have to look, particularly for us,
is
who's steering the stories and what's going on there.
And of course, there was always, as fluky chronicled in the pages of
private eye, a
battle between, Prince
Charles he then was in his kind of press operation, which was run very,
separately from the Buckingham Palace
Press operation.
Yeah, And I don't think, I think there might be some helpful doctrine going on in
the King who
really does seem to wash his hands entirely of his
little brother.
just pushing things in the direction
of, I
mean you, did this in, in, in The Eye quite recently in, it's not Sylvia Cism,
it's
Dam had his shoulders.
no.
Dame had
his shoulders
Ian: much, much younger
and
more, with it.
Novelist.
Adam: But, that that point that, Charles actually probably has a
resentments from childhood, which are, coming out now in a kind of public
Helen: forum,
entitled is very good on that.
The, Andrew Loey book about the fact that Andrew was the kind of favorite son.
His nickname from his mother was Baby
Grumbling when she said, oh, really?
I, think that's really cute, but I can see it.
Maybe it turned him
Adam: a
baby Grumblings the parishes,
which was a cartoon strip
in daily mirror back in the sixties.
I
never had
her down
as a
mirror reader.
Oh.
She
was
a lifelong socialist.
She called Phil Andy Ka behind his back.
Saba: Poor old Andy.
he's been, invited to rescind his freedom of the
city of London.
By the corporation of London recently
Adam: So no more driving
a
sheep over
Saba: the London Bridge.
Exactly.
He's lost
that privilege.
Adam: what more can they take away from him?
Saba: It's the final straw, isn't it?
Helen: she straw.
Yes.
Thank
you.
Ian: flunky.
Ended up saying that, one of the few people who'd spotted that Mandelson
was up to no good was the king.
I thought that must have been unhappy reading for ke
you are in touch with what's going on than the king.
Adam: he specifically said that the, that, Mandelson and, the king were quite good
mates one point in the sort of nineties.
But even his majesty spotted that after the first resignation, this was a slightly
dubious person to be hanging around
with.
And the
second of group definitely, con, made that concrete for him.
But,
There you
go.
Once again, developed vetting.
Should have had a
word.
Ian: Yeah.
Adam: Yep.
There we go.
Alright.
what we haven't got is buzzers
here, so
I'm gonna give you each a sound
Oh.
So you
jump in.
Helen, I would like you to give when you know the answer.
a, herald's trumpet.
Perfect.
Saba: Thank you.
So good
Adam: Sab.
And we have a loyal hooray from you?
Hooray.
Saba: hooray No.
A bit high pitch.
A
Adam: bit more than that.
Oh
yeah.
That's
perfect.
That's brilliant.
more
Bandley.
Saba: Yeah.
Adam: Ian,
if your buzzer sound can be a, fervent,
Ian: God
bless
Adam: your
mom.
Helen: Yes.
Ian: What de delivered
Adam: in in
Ian: the accent of, what?
Dick Van
Dy.
Full
Adam: Pearl king.
I
want there.
Dr.
Saba: cap as well.
Adam: Yeah.
absolutely.
question one, come when you know the answer with your, appropriate noise.
The queen spoke the first ever photo bubble on a private
eye cover in issue five,
or
at least the bubble was coming out of the Royal State coach.
So we're assuming it
was her.
What was the occasion?
And I tell, oh
Ian: God bless you, mom.
Adam: Go on man.
Ian: It was the birth of Prince Charles and she was on the way to the
hospital.
Adam: few years too late.
Birth of Prince Edward comes
shortly
afterwards, but
Charles has been around.
Charles is actually
13,
but I'm gonna give you half a point because he was in hospital,
he was an emergency appendectomy and the the speech bubble coming
outta the royal coach was saying,
great Warman Street
PE - HOST 2 SHOT: James, and step on it.
Adam: yes.
Yeah.
the coverage of, Prince Edward's birth a bit later on in 1963.
And, princess Anne starting at Bennington as well,
just just gives you an idea of how long private eye has been going.
We were covering the royal children who are now, grandparents.
It's extraordinary.
Number one of the earliest bits of journalism in the eye, 'cause the
jokes came first in private eye.
The journalism joined a few later in the
1960s.
one of the first bits of journalism appeared, high was
in November, 1964, and it wasn't the eye's own journalism instead.
It
was a roundup of what French and German papers were saying about what particular
scandal uncovered in the British
media.
Helen: Which year again?
Adam: 1964.
Ian: Oh God bless mom.
Adam: Go on, sir.
Ian: Was it Profumo?
Adam: no, it's, this is post profumo.
it's, a
bit vague.
Yeah, go on.
Was
PE - HOST 2 SHOT: there
Helen: one involving ships quite often they'd involve or helicopters?
Adam: no, not this one particular, there was a lot of stuff about Prince
Philip, flying helicopters safety.
he was.
Yeah, Never safe behind the wheel of a car either.
do you wanna come in with a wild
gas?
go, with Prince Philip?
Great.
Yeah,
Saba: Rah.
That's what I
Adam: actually.
It was.
The way.
You did eye
Helen: to honest.
Adam: did that.
I was
Quite
Saba: meaningful.
Was it something to do with some, with one of the royals going out with
someone who wasn't quite up to scratch?
Adam: You
could definitely
get
half a point.
How was
Saba: Margaret?
Ian: was it No.
Adam: it was It
was implications
that he was, let me give you the translations that were provided.
Stop from the papers.
Lavan Elizabeth is spending nights alone while Prince Philip sips champagne with
girls from a ballet troupe in Mexico.
He was.
To be fair on a royal trip to Mexico by himself.
At that point, it wasn't that he'd just they'd an argument he stormed
out and gone all the way to Mexico.
it was solo nine day tour.
but according to the French press as reported at this point in
private eye in 1964, Elizabeth was Ris Ris Always alone, was sad.
she cannot go on.
She has decided to support no more of it in future.
She's on the edge of a nervous breakdown on the brink of the abyss.
She's longer our proud and haughty queen.
She did manage to carry on
for
several decades after that apparent in apparently happy marriage good on the
Ian: royals.
Adam: Interesting.
bit like, do you remember the, the National Enquirer
for Aiders for about 10 years?
Just kept running, a headline that just said.
queen Elizabeth at Death's door, which is when those headlines eventually gonna be
true and eventually was of course in 2022.
Can I just give you the last tiny beautiful detail
from this, apparently, according to the French press, the queen was
haunted by plaintiff inquiries of her little Prince Andrew naively asking,
PE - HOST 2 SHOT: tell me Mama, is it the Mexico that papa is?
Adam: there go.
Helen: Like
Yoda.
Adam: I
he lost something in
translation
There is
Ian: something about royal reporting that
encourages total
Adam: Yes.
Make
it up.
then.
I'm gonna
deny
it.
Number three, the
big one.
Who the Queen?
Brenda?
Helen: I'm gonna go Willy Rushton.
'cause he feels like he did a
lot of naming.
Adam: not Will, not Willy Rushton, no.
Ian: Was it Prince Philip?
Adam: God
bless you, sir.
Ian: God bless God.
God bless you, sir.
Adam: no, it
wasn't.
and it wasn't private eye.
Even though we've been, we've adopted the nickname and we've been using ever since.
According to the grovel column, which was weird society column that private
eye ran in the seventies, 1971.
it reported that it a nickname used by her immediate staff.
So actually a genuine nickname within the palace, which was
then, adopted by Private Eye.
a years later, they added a couple of others.
the obvious one.
Prince Charles, Brian King.
Yeah.
N knows Brian.
Still known as Brian.
Still people online.
Never anyone puts any of our stories up online.
Who Brian?
What
is this?
Yeah, he's the king.
also had, princess Margaret.
Anyone guess what?
She was known
as?
vo.
Helen: Yvonne.
Adam: Oh, very good.
You, I've been reading
past issues.
And you remember what the nickname, courtiers gave to Diana when she
joined the Royal Family in 1981 Was.
Helen: I believe it to be Cheryl, or is it Cheryl,
Adam: you've
been cheating.
You
knew
this
quiz
Ian: coming
Helen: up, I just did
A little oh, she's just a
royal.
Adam: Alright.
You're not gonna get this one in, 20, 18 fluky that the nickname for, Harry
and Meghan within the royal household.
Can you remember that one?
Helen: I'm just going through Famous two soon, I'm like, I've
got
Saba: Ben.
Helen: benefit.
Adam: no,
Is it Is it
Beck?
No.
That
would be quite a good
one
as well.
No.
it
Helen: Perky,
Adam: Chandler and Monica on the grounds that he was a bit weird
and married someone much hotter than him with very, firm ideas.
Helen: That's actually,
that's not bad.
Adam: I think it lost out because h and m works as well, they're nice.
High street clothes, shore.
Helen: hbo.
Sorry to
Adam: that's the, oh, Charlotte Griffiths
has come
back
into the
room.
A reprise of Orange,
Ian: I'm afraid.
List was of, the podcast were rather,
confused because
was so
realistic.
The rendering of the transcript.
They thought we'd hired
Harry and Charlotte Griffiths to come and do this
podcast.
Adam: Sadly, we
can't afford Prince Harry, but we can't afford Charlotte Griffiths.
She shall just far too much Okay.
In March, 2016 when Michael Gove was forced to deny being the source of a
claim, that ended up on front page of the Sun as the headline queen backs Brexit.
The, I ran a cover of Her Majesty at the state, opening parliament facing
a RO row of officials, including Michael Gove, the speech bubble from
off page saying just point to the person who did it, your Majesty.
What
special news did we receive via palace back channels after that cover came out,
Helen: Oh, presumably she loved it.
She had to in her little box that she used to get and watch and
read.
Adam: She absolutely did.
Yes.
Yeah.
this, is this message in full, which came through to us.
The front cover of current eye was included in the cutting, sent up
to the Queen most days, and didn't return, which means that it made
it into her personal scrapbook.
She
cartoons and send up even the unkind ones if she finds them funny.
So you
go.
You've got a fan, Ian.
Ian: just like George ii,
Helen: did he have a personal scrapbook of private eye
covers?
Ian: he
Helen: did.
It
was some my
Ian: of our first issues.
Very,
Helen: best woodcuts were in
there, so
somewhat
Ian: he
bought a lot of cartoons of himself and
his son.
He
did, yes.
He had a very good collection.
He rather liked being called Farmer George.
Didn't He He liked it as a nickname?
Yes, he did
because he was not unlike the present king in that he was very interested
in agriculture when everyone else thought it was boring.
Saba: I like the idea of the queen being a, some kind of
super predator of private art.
got own versions in
her
scrapbook.
Yeah.
Ian: with only the
Saba: good
ones.
All about her.
Not much Andrew
Adam: Probably lots about Andrew and hardly anything about
Charles, I think actually.
this is what
we'll find out from the official biography.
Presumably someone would be allowed to look in that scrapbook and confirm that
this
is
true,
Ian: but, the Brexit story has appeared in the Hardman, hasn't it?
Adam: Yeah.
And is also being counterman.
Now, we ran recently, the ran ape saying she was spectator edited by Michael
Go ran ape saying, she was actually extremely anti Brexit and pro Europe.
Helen: so she was antis Scottish referendum.
If you remember David Cameron said she pur down phone to him when she found
out that the union had
together.
but I remember when I used to a podcast with Stephen Bush, now at
the ft he pointed out demographically she was a white pensioner without
a college degree that says Brexit.
Adam: Yeah.
A lot of relatives from the continent she had some
Helen: yeah.
But a lot of people in Spain as expats voted for Brexit.
So the
fact
was green, then she wore the
Ian: blue and yellow outfit
Helen: Yeah.
For Ukraine though, was that Oh, no, that was the one with the,
with the stars.
Yeah.
The, flowers that like star, which
Adam: I think is definitive,
Helen: Right.
Adam: But.
Helen: Case close.
Will there be more,
Adam,
Adam: there is one more question, which I suspect, Ian might
get ahead of the, other two
of you.
we'll go with in the same year, an even better cover in July of New
Minister doing the most extraordinarily low curie, almost way down to
the floor, as the queen
to her, how low can your gal and Theresa May replied, I've appointed
Boris Johnson as foreign secretary.
Whose joke was that
Ian: Who wrote
Helen: one?
Adam: Ian?
Whose
joke
Was
it
really
Ian: Sheila's?
Adam: Yes.
Was
this the one occasion where the managing director of private eyes,
didn't, this is the joke for the cover.
Ian: Yes.
And
was very annoying 'cause it was incredibly funny.
Great.
and Sheila was essentially, The managing director of Private Die for
about 300 years since George ii, and her job was to try and keep this thing
afloat, not to provide better jokes than me.
Adam: her involvement on covers usually was come down and see what you're putting
Monday go, not the Prime Minister again.
That's 10,000
sales
we've
lost,
Ian: not
Adam: on
this
occasion.
Ian: no.
She hit the jackpot.
Adam: Brilliant.
I, on, as a result of that, I can, reveal that, Helen.
the regal nod of approval, the sword on both shoulders and, whatever medal
you would like to take home with you.
Yeah,
Helen: I don't think I've ever won a private quiz before.
This is
very exciting
to
Adam: me.
I know.
Helen: just felt sorry
Adam: for No,
news.
Ian got far more questions
right
than you,
but
it's
traditionally always loses on the tele.
Helen: Finally,
rigging works in my favor.
that is it for this episode of page 94.
We'll be back in a fortnight, with one possibly involving Andy.
Until then, thank you to Saba, Adam, and Ian, and thank you to you for listening.
If you'd like to get more joke stories, pictures of the Queen, actually, probably
not pictures of the Queen anymore.
Maybe a small amount, then, please subscribe to Private I
by going to private i.co do uk.
If you'd like to subscribe, that'd be great.
If you'd like to buy to news agents also.
Great.
The only remaining thanks.
Go to Matt Hill at Rethink for producing.
See you.