>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s and I used to live

in a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect

on what's happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you to take a moment to

stop and think about where you are, where you're

going, and where your relationship with God fits

into it all. Every week I meet a new guest who

tells me about something they experienced which

changed their life forever. By talking about the

things they wish they'd known. We'll explore the

idea that God is in all things. And we'll talk

about the part that faith plays in navigating

life's challenges. Today I'm speaking to Patricia,

who is the programme coordinator at the Centre

Arrupe in Madagascar, which is a partner of the

Jesuit missions. She's talking to us about caring

for creation and how her faith has encouraged her

in that and community action and her experience of

growing up in Madagascar and how the climate

crisis has impacted the people living in

Madagascar. So, Patricia, tell me about yourself.

>> Patricia: Hello, I'm Patricia Tahirindray I come from

Madagascar. I work at Centre Arrupe Madagascar

Jesuit Social Centre. It was founded in 2005. It's

mostly a research and training centre.

>> Julia: And how did you first become interested in caring

for the environment?

>> Patricia: So I joined the Centre of Madagascar in 2016. I

was still working in the financial sector, where I

had worked for about 15 years, but I was already

very involved in volunteer work for the Church and

for my country. And I first started helping the

Centre to strengthen its structure so that it

could better respond to the needs of society and

to to the mission of this Jesuits. And I began

with a financial and operational audit. So, step

by step, I became more and more interested in this

mission of social and environmental justice. I

could see the climate change was affecting the

Society more and more and I felt I needed to

understand it better and do more. And after five

years of volunteering, I decided to join the

Central Arrupe full time in 2020.

>> Julia: Amazing. What did you learn from the environmental

audit?

>> Patricia: I was asked to do the operational audit of a

centre because it was already clear that some

restructuring was needed. And through this work, I

also saw that the centre has strong potential to

create positive change in the society in

environmental activities. I understood that the

centre was built to respond to the Jesuit Mission

for Social and Environmental Justice. So the audit

helped us See how to improve the structure so that

the centre could serve better and have more

impact.

>> Julia: And how did the work grow from there?

>> Patricia: Okay, when I look back, I can say that everything

grew little by little, but with good rhythm over

the time, the work became stronger and more

visible. The Jesuits were already well known in

Madagascar, especially in education, higher

education and evangelization. So I think the

central helped bring a stronger social and

environmental dimension. And as people faced more

climate problems in daily life, our environmental

work also became more important and more visible

and more concrete.

>> Julia: So tell me about living in Madagascar.

>> Patricia: Madagascar is a large island in the Indian Ocean,

you know, near the east coast of Africa. And

Madagascar is known with its beautiful nature, its

unique animals and plants, rivers, forests, you

know, rich culture with a strong community life.

It's a unique country. There are many animals that

you can find nowhere else. And I think that for

me, it's the best country where I can live. It was

growing up within the nature. I could play

everywhere I wanted, in the beach, you know, in

the hills, everywhere. And I think that gave me

the opportunity to be creative and to do many

things that actually many children can't do

anymore. If I can say about the climate change.

You know, a few years ago, we did a study in the

capital city and asked people what they knew about

the climate change. And only a small percentage

said that they knew it well. And even then, the

understanding was often limited. But people

clearly feel the effects in daily life, so they

notice higher temperatures, less rain, air

pollution, changing seasons, floods, droughts, and

stronger cyclones. These are things people really

live through. Madagascar is an island in the

Indian Ocean, as cyclones are not new, but now we

are facing more intense cyclones. And after each

cyclone, it's very hard to recover. Recently, last

February, a very intense cyclone passed through

the east of Madagascar and caused a lot of damage,

even though people were still living strongly with

the consequences. And this shows that climate

change affects real people and how weak resilience

still is.

>> Julia: Is it hard to rebuild life after those cyclones?

>> Patricia: One reason is that many people still don't really

understand climate change and don't know how to

face it. This makes vulnerability even stronger.

And another reason is that resilience is still

very low. Infrastructure is not adapted at all.

Sometimes just a bit of rain that can already

cause flooding with water everywhere. And because

things continue to get worse, it becomes harder

and harder to recover. So poverty also makes

people more vulnerable. When people already

struggle to meet basic needs, rebuilding becomes

much more difficult.

>> Julia: I have never been to Madagascar, so I don't know

the impact of the climate on. In Madagascar. But

I've been both to Sierra Leone and Cambodia and

spoken to farmers in particular and seen like, the

impact of the climate crisis for them. So in this

country, in the summer, we have hotter summers and

we might. Sometimes we have wetter winters or

sometimes we have drier winters, but it. It's a

slight impact of us on the weather. But I remember

in my experience in Cambodia, I was seeing farmers

who used to have flourishing fields, now were

having droughts and much drier seasons and much

wetter seasons, which meant they weren't able to

grow crops in the same way. I imagine that's

something very. And that that was therefore

impacting their income and therefore they weren't

able to make the same amount of money. They

weren't able to know what they could grow, but

because they didn't know what the climate was

going to do to those crops. Is that something

similar that happens in Madagascar?

>> Patricia: Yeah, yes, of course. Because, you know, climate

change is not only about statistics or big

discussions. It affects rich people, real families

and real communities and. Exactly. In Madagascar,

it affects farmers, because the majority of people

are farmers in Madagascar, so very. They don't

know when the rains will come because it has

changed with the effects of climate change. And it

affects families whose homes are damaged by

cyclones. It affects young people whose future

becomes more uncertain, and it affects the poor

the most because they have fewer means to cope and

to recover. So when you speak about effects of

climate change, we are also speaking about

justice, dignity and human lives. So people are

not resilient because they don't have a means to

be resilient. So they really need help to be

protected and to have more hope and resilience.

>> Julia: What is the help that is needed for countries like

Madagascar?

>> Patricia: As you know, environmental problems affect daily

lives. Helping people. For us, as in the central,

we start by teaching people what is climate

change, what may be the effects, and then how to

adapt and to be resilient facing these

environmental challenges. So every action counts

because it can be an individual, individual hand

or an organisational help, but everyone can help

with daily gesture helping, supporting projects

that can help people to be resilient and to have

more hope or just by praying for them also. Yeah.

>> Julia: I remember someone saying that prayer is really

important. It gets there twice as fast as any.

Anything else as well?

>> Patricia: Yeah.

>> Julia: What do you feel God has taught you about care for

creation?

>> Patricia: For me, every action that I want to take towards

the environmental protection is a call of God. You

know, it's a vocation. To respond to the call of

God. So for the nature, for the protection, for

the reconciliation between nature and human.

>> Julia: So what is something that everyone can do?

>> Patricia: So, as I said, every action counts and each. Each

daily gesture matters. So sometimes think,

sometimes people think that only big actions are

important. But small things also help. Reducing

waste. Planting trees, avoiding harmful habits,

using resources, carefully raising awareness.

Planting trees, you know, teaching young people to

care for the environment. So small actions may

seem simple, but when many people do them, they

can create real change. Yeah.

>> Julia: In my previous work, you mentioned planting trees.

We had a campaign about planting trees, but we

made it really important that you also need to

grow them. It's not just enough to, like, plant

them. And they need to be big trees that grow

forever. What gives you hope?

>> Patricia: People. I think people can give hope because, you

know, when there is life, there is hope and people

can really make difference. And I think they are

the only one who can make difference for the

common home.

>> Julia: And what does our common home, as you've just

mentioned, mean to you in the everyday?

>> Patricia: So at Centre Arrupe, Madagascar, we use this

expression a lot because it helps people

understand that climate change concerns all of us

and that our actions affect all of us because we

live in the same home. So when you speak about

your common home, it feels more real than just

saying the planet, because planet Earth can feel

too big or too far away, but the home is something

we know, something we share, and something we must

care for together. So for me, it means that caring

for the environment is part of caring for life,

for others, for the future.

>> Julia: You're wearing this wonderful T shirt that

mentions Laudato C on the side of it. What impact

has Laudato Si' had on you?

>> Patricia: So I'm a Laudato Si' animator. Centre Arrupe

Madagascar promotes Laudato Si' in Madagascar. And

we created the Laudato Si' Madagascar movement,

which is recognised by the Laudato Si' movement

worldwide. So my faith has always been linked to

love and service, but it was especially through

Laudato Si' that I understood more deeply the link

between my faith and the care for the environment.

It helped me see that loving nature and protecting

creation are also part of faith. And it helped me

understand the idea of ecological conversion. I

also felt that other people could take more

responsibility if they made the same link between

faith and environment. So that is why we helped

put in place this network in Madagascar, the

Laudato Si' Movement in Madagascar. And that bring

together mostly Catholic actors such as

associations, congregations, parishes. Yeah.

>> Julia: For people listening who don't know what is

Laudato Si', what is Laudato si?

>> Patricia: Yeah, briefly, Laudato Si', that means praise be

to you, so praise be to God. This is an encyclical

that the Pope Francis wrote for the care for our

common home. That means the earth, the planet.

>> Julia: And one of the things I love about Laudato Si' is

that every encyclical, which is a letter written

by the Pope previously, has been written to the

Catholics, the faithful, as it's described. But

Laudato Si' was the first letter that Pope Francis

wrote to everybody.

>> Patricia: Yes.

>> Julia: Like it didn't matter if you're Catholic or not.

He was writing to everyone to remind everyone of

why it's important to care for our common home. So

with the people in Madagascar that you're working

with, for example, the farmers that you've

mentioned, is it quite difficult to help people to

understand that climate change is real? And also

the impacts on their farms, for example, is

because of that. How do you get that message

across?

>> Patricia: It depends on people. With young people, it's less

difficult because they are very open and they

really want to take concrete actions. But, for

example, with farmers, it's mostly difficult to

change habits because we have done things like

this and it worked. So we don't want to change. So

behaviour change is not easy and it can take a

very long time.

>> Julia: I was just going to say, I remember that from

visiting farms in Cambodia, that it took a lot of

work just to get the first farmer to change. And

then that after that season where their crops grew

better than it then took another two families and

then that was another season and then you had a

few more and it was changed slowly. It wasn't like

everyone was like, great, let's jump in and change

now. It took a lot of, like, going back and forth

for it to happen.

>> Patricia: Yeah, it's complicated.

>> Julia: You mentioned that young people do seem to be more

involved in the conversation. Does that give you

hope that they're going to continue the work that

you do?

>> Patricia: Yeah, the youth, they are the present, you know,

the present about carrying the environment,

because they are the ones who are the real agents

of change and they can take actions that can

really help. At Centre Arrupe, we have initiatives

like green entrepreneurship, we have Laudato Si'

animators who take responsibilities in their own

communities. So they are the present and they give

hope because these are the persons who really care

about it and they are more ecological persons that

we were before. So we are the present and also the

future.

>> Julia: So what was the moment for you that Opened your

eyes that made the impact of the climate crisis

real for you.

>> Patricia: Before, I didn't know that the effects of climate

change were so dangerous, you know, so I think it

was mostly about the climates, the climates, they

changed. It was very difficult to plan and to know

which season we are now. And also the intense

succulents, because every year we have cyclone,

but it's stronger and stronger. So I was asking

myself what happened. I think this is something

that reminds me, that appeals me that there is

something wrong with. It was about, you know,

intense cyclones, it was stronger and stronger.

But also in the south, where I come from, there is

droughts, but also intense droughts, because

before there were droughts, but they were not as

strong like this. No water. People don't know

where they can get water. And even me, when I,

when I see that, I don't know how people can

continue to live. Because with no water, it's like

there is no life.

>> Julia: Yeah, water is very much life, isn't it? Like,

without it. And I know like a couple of years ago

we had concerns in this country about water, which

is not a comparison to Madagascar and the issues

there, but it was started to make people consider

what the impacts are happening around the world

for people in much worse situations with droughts.

Obviously. I spoke earlier about the weather

impacting people in this country. How would you

help people in the UK understand the impact of the

climate on people in Madagascar?

>> Patricia: Yeah, when we explain climate change to people in

Madagascar, sometimes we are not really aware

about it because when we explain about the reasons

why it's happening, they said that, no, we don't

do that, so we couldn't have such effects. But,

you know, the effects of climate change is global.

So something that you can do in UK can have

impacts in Madagascar, you know, very far away.

And people in Madagascar, they are less resilient

than people in Europe or in other developed

countries. So it's important for everyone to take

responsibility and to see, okay, I did this, so

how can I help someone else who can't be resilient

to tackle the climate change effects?

>> Julia: So what things do you wish you knew about caring

for creation?

>> Patricia: I wish someone had told me what is climate change

and what actions in everyday life I would have

taken so that I could take care of environment.

Because when I teach young people today, what is

climate change, what are the effects and what

actions you can take, I just tell them, you know,

I wish someone told me that because I wanted to

take more responsibility and to be more

responsible than I was before. Yeah.

>> Julia: So we always end the podcast with the question

what are you grateful for? Because it's to do with

the Ignatian spirituality of the Jesuits to

always, like, end what are you grateful for? So

what are you grateful for?

>> Patricia: So I'm grateful for people who support us and who

give encouragement and trust that really matters.

>> Julia: Thanks for listening to Things I Wish I Knew. I

know this conversation is going to stay with me

because it reminded me about the impact the

climate crisis is having on the world's poorest.

And also a reminder about how every decision we

make here impacts people across the world. How

about you? We'd love to know how Patricia's story

resonated with you. And why not also tell us if

you're facing an experience you wish you knew how

to look at differently, it might just be something

we can help with. You can find out more about this

and other themes at thinkingfaith.org. Thank you

again for listening. I hope you'll join me again

next time on Things I Wish I Knew.