[00:00.0 - 00:04.8] Hey, it's Oliver Bruce and welcome to the Unlocked, previously known as Success is in
[00:04.8 - 00:09.3] the Mind. I'm a UK entrepreneur, angel investor, and neurodivergent founder, and I recently
[00:09.3 - 00:14.3] exited my first business, which I scaled from my university halls into a multi-million dollar
[00:14.3 - 00:19.5] agency with no backing, no funding, just grit, mistakes, and determination. I want to pass
[00:19.5 - 00:22.4] on some of the lessons that I've learned, the barriers that I had to overcome, and the
[00:22.4 - 00:28.4] challenges that I'm still coming up against today. This podcast doesn't grow by itself,
[00:28.4 - 00:32.9] it grows with you. If you could possibly share this with friends, family, colleagues,
[00:32.9 - 00:36.5] anybody you're in business with, somebody that you think might find this useful, I would
[00:36.5 - 00:41.0] be greatly appreciative. Anyway, let's get into it.
[00:41.0 - 00:48.0] Brilliant. So, Simon, original dragon, Yo Sushi fame, rock and roll star, so to speak.
[00:48.0 - 00:52.2] Thanks for joining us on the show. I'm fascinated about the journey because it wasn't all Japanese
[00:52.2 - 00:56.6] cuisine for the majority of your life, was it? It was Rod Stewart and rock and roll for
[00:56.6 - 01:01.0] a period, and then a big divorce halfway through. So, if we could just dial that-
[01:01.0 - 01:05.4] That and a whole lot more, it's a roller coaster, it sure is.
[01:05.4 - 01:09.2] Well, maybe we can double click into, I guess, the earlier part of your career where you
[01:09.2 - 01:13.5] were building sets and running around the world, essentially, with all these, the great
[01:13.5 - 01:17.6] and good, if you will, from a rock and roll perspective. How did you get into that world,
[01:17.6 - 01:20.7] and what was the kind of reason that you decided that was the place that you wanted to start
[01:20.7 - 01:22.0] off in?
[01:22.0 - 01:30.5] It was a rocky start. I left school at 16, left Marlborough at 16 with two O-levels GCSEs,
[01:30.5 - 01:39.7] and after a bit, I needed a job. I was 18, and I wasn't doing very much, love and peace
[01:39.7 - 01:46.8] in those days. I bought a couple of newspapers, and one of them was the stage, and it had
[01:46.8 - 01:55.8] an advert in the back for a theatre stage manager. I went up and I got the job. No experience
[01:55.8 - 02:02.2] at all. You wouldn't get that these days. I was in the theatre, and I loved it. Suddenly,
[02:02.2 - 02:08.8] I was doing the curtains and setting the thing out, and I understood how theatre worked a
[02:08.8 - 02:16.5] bit. Then rock and roll came along, and that was my first love, was music in those days.
[02:17.2 - 02:22.1] I got a job. I went to one of the very, very early lighting companies who were doing rock
[02:22.1 - 02:29.0] shows, the Rolling Stones and Jeff Rotel and the Moody Blues. They said, yes, if you know
[02:29.0 - 02:34.6] your stage left from your stage right, here's a job. I went off to Italy, actually, and
[02:34.6 - 02:40.2] did my first gig, and I was in seventh heaven. I couldn't believe that I had a job on the
[02:40.2 - 02:45.8] road with a rock and roll band, which is my sort of dream. It all went on from there,
[02:45.8 - 02:49.7] and eventually, I became a stage designer, actually. I used to tell the bands that they
[02:49.7 - 02:56.0] should be doing big shows like Busby Berkey did for the movies in the 1920s. No, no, no.
[02:56.0 - 03:02.0] This is rock and roll. Never the twain shall meet. Eventually, they did. I got a break
[03:02.0 - 03:07.2] with them, first the Moody Blues, and then Rod Stewart. I became a stage designer. It
[03:07.2 - 03:13.8] just happened that way. We weren't running around having parties. I went from an English
[03:13.8 - 03:21.9] upper middle class background to becoming really the working class of where the pop
[03:21.9 - 03:28.0] stars was the upper class, if you like. That was hard work. It was real hard graft. We
[03:28.0 - 03:33.8] were, as a sort of tribe of people in the early days of rock shows, putting on the beginnings
[03:33.8 - 03:41.1] of spectacles, we were really into showbiz. That's what we were into. I think that that
[03:41.1 - 03:50.3] training and certainly all the design side, I learned to draw and to get things built.
[03:50.3 - 03:55.4] I had an imagination, which I guess I got from not having the imagination educated out
[03:55.4 - 04:01.6] of me at school. I think that did really set me up very well for when I eventually started
[04:01.6 - 04:12.0] Joe Sushi 20 years later. I often thought restaurants are every bit as much show business.
[04:12.0 - 04:20.1] They have rehearsals, tryouts, first nights, runs, and all of that stuff. Very, very similar
[04:20.1 - 04:27.7] to doing rock shows in many ways. I think this set me up both as a designer, and by
[04:27.7 - 04:31.9] that time, I've been in all sorts of businesses. I understood the business side of it and the
[04:31.9 - 04:37.0] contractual side and all of that. Yes, I think it set me up very well.
[04:37.0 - 04:42.7] In terms of the upper middle class upbringing and the lack, I guess, of O-levels, now GCSEs,
[04:42.7 - 04:47.0] how did your parents feel that you left school maybe for not the career that they maybe wanted
[04:47.0 - 04:50.9] you to have, whatever that might have been, sitting in some corporate world? You obviously
[04:50.9 - 04:55.1] didn't do that. You didn't have the grades that maybe they wanted you to have. What was
[04:55.2 - 04:59.1] their take, I guess, on your schooling and education career?
[04:59.1 - 05:04.2] Well, I grew up in Singapore. In old Singapore, my father was in the army, Brigadier Woodruff,
[05:04.2 - 05:10.3] Indian Cavalry Association. Those were my formative years. Then we came back to live
[05:10.3 - 05:17.4] in England. I think it was quite a big readjustment for my parents. We were the poor relations in an
[05:17.4 - 05:23.0] extended family, which may have been upper middle class, my mom would have said. We
[05:23.0 - 05:28.7] weren't rich. Certainly not by those standards. So I think that sort of was a bit of a kernel
[05:28.7 - 05:34.9] in my oyster, a bit of grit in my oyster, but I wanted to be one of those. I think when I left
[05:35.4 - 05:44.5] school at 16, I think my dad and my mom, my dad just got divorced. So the money was tight.
[05:46.0 - 05:52.0] Honestly, I think for my father, it was just out of his ken. He just didn't, it was so sort of,
[05:52.0 - 06:00.2] you know, beyond what he imagined. However, he did save a great deal of money by not having to
[06:00.2 - 06:05.7] pay the school fees. So that might have helped. He was just marrying another woman. So it wasn't
[06:05.7 - 06:10.1] all great. I think my mother, she was really, really at her depth and she didn't know how to
[06:10.1 - 06:14.3] help and she hadn't lived in England for years, so she didn't really have any connections.
[06:14.3 - 06:21.3] So they didn't actually, I mean, God bless them, they didn't really guide me into a career. So
[06:21.3 - 06:26.7] I was left sort of thinking, where do I go? And that's how, that's why I bought the stage
[06:26.7 - 06:31.7] newspaper and got into the, first of all, the theatre and then rock and roll from there.
[06:32.5 - 06:37.3] So you kind of, I guess, muddled through in the first, I guess, you know, third of your life,
[06:37.3 - 06:41.3] so to speak, to a point where you did have a brilliant time, you did get married, but then
[06:41.3 - 06:46.8] everything kind of toppled over at the age of 40. Now, just talk to me about how and why that
[06:46.8 - 06:51.7] happened and that inflection point that you kind of went through at the age of 40 to start what
[06:51.7 - 06:55.6] you are now known for, which is Yo! Sushi and the sort of Yo! Group, if you will.
[06:56.9 - 07:05.8] I fell off at several points. I fell off after Live Aid in 1985, which was, I'm sure none of
[07:05.8 - 07:11.3] your listeners have ever had that thought, but I remember suddenly that rock and roll business was
[07:11.3 - 07:15.9] grown up and big, proper, properly trained designers were coming onto my patch. And I
[07:15.9 - 07:19.7] remember thinking, I've got to get out of this business before I get found out.
[07:21.1 - 07:28.5] Now, I'm very, you know, pleased with what I did in those days. And then I was in the
[07:28.5 - 07:32.3] television business selling television rights because I knew the managers of all the groups.
[07:33.0 - 07:38.5] And rock and roll MTV had just come along and recorded concert shows were coming along. So
[07:38.5 - 07:44.9] that was the next thing. And then I got into extreme sports films before Red Bull and extreme
[07:44.9 - 07:48.7] sports got big. And I was going to do that. And that could have been a career. That could have
[07:48.7 - 07:53.8] been actually a pretty good career. But again, I fell off the wagon there, not fell off the wagon,
[07:53.8 - 08:00.4] but fell off the, you know, the precipice, if you like. And I married a girl when I was in
[08:00.4 - 08:05.5] the television business, you know, I was a much bigger deal than I was, you know, a bit of a show
[08:05.5 - 08:10.1] off, met her in Cannes at one of the television festivals. And she's still a good friend of mine
[08:10.1 - 08:16.0] today, you know, so we're close. But that lasted for a couple of years. And we had a child. And
[08:16.0 - 08:20.2] that did throw me to my knees, actually. I mean, that was a divorce. They say divorce takes 10
[08:20.2 - 08:24.5] years out of your life. And it certainly really threw me to my knees. And then I was in the
[08:24.5 - 08:30.6] wilderness. And it was out of that, that I went off actually to live in Chamonix in the French
[08:30.6 - 08:35.0] Alps, because I'd always been a climber, bit of a skier, not very good skier, but I was always
[08:35.0 - 08:42.0] been a climber and a sailor and extreme sports and all of that. I wonder why. And extreme
[08:42.0 - 08:47.5] personality. And I thought, I'm just going to live a simple life. I've had it with trying to be high
[08:47.5 - 08:53.8] falutin. And after three years in the Alps, my father died, left me a box of Astro. I remember
[08:53.8 - 08:57.8] I used to drive down there had enough money to buy a little flat, I was going to rent it out
[08:57.8 - 09:04.2] and sleep on somebody's lawn just to earn a living. So it was at that level. And then I thought, no,
[09:04.2 - 09:08.0] I'm going to have a go at doing something. I've got to do something. I've got it in me. I still
[09:08.0 - 09:14.2] have that creative gene. And I came back to England and started looking at all sorts of things I was
[09:14.2 - 09:18.7] going to do. Indoor climbing was the big thing I was going to do. I even thought of starting a
[09:18.7 - 09:24.9] removals business and things like that. I thought about doing that. Ice cream business like Duncan
[09:24.9 - 09:31.7] Ballantine. You made a lot of money in ice cream. Yeah, I did. It's true. And I talked about it many
[09:31.7 - 09:39.1] times. And yeah, so and then I, you know, I think, you know, you've read the book. So you know that
[09:39.1 - 09:45.9] story. The you know, I am, I thought I'm going to phone up all the people I'm most scared of.
[09:45.9 - 09:51.3] And I did. And I started making calls. And one of them was a guy called Mr. O'Hara, who was a
[09:51.3 - 09:56.1] Japanese television producer who produced the Japanese equivalent of Top of the Pops in those
[09:56.1 - 10:00.3] days. And there has always been a sort of dissonant character. I don't know if he really liked me or
[10:00.3 - 10:05.9] whatever. And I called him up a few years later and he was just so nice to me. And I said, you
[10:05.9 - 10:09.2] know, I'm looking for a new project. He said, well, you're very capable, Simon. I was like,
[10:09.2 - 10:13.8] God, I didn't know you thought that. You know how it is. You don't know. You always suspect that
[10:13.9 - 10:21.5] people think the worst of you, perhaps. And he took me out to lunch that week and we were sitting
[10:21.5 - 10:26.1] having sushi, a real treat for me because, you know, I was living, you know, thinking about twice
[10:26.1 - 10:32.4] about breaking into a Fiverr, no dates, money running, running out. And he said, what you should
[10:32.4 - 10:38.5] do, Simon, is a conveyor belt sushi bar. And that at that moment, you know, it was in my imagination.
[10:38.5 - 10:46.1] You know, when I was a kid and I had, you know, the Hornby 00 train set, I used to send up on the
[10:46.0 - 10:49.0] on the dining room table at breakfast
[10:49.0 - 10:50.7] and have the marmalade go round.
[10:50.7 - 10:53.5] I thought, I know, that's exactly what I wanted to do.
[10:53.5 - 10:55.7] And that's how I imagined it.
[10:55.7 - 10:57.4] I had no, this was before the internet,
[10:57.4 - 10:59.3] so there was no research you could do.
[10:59.3 - 11:01.1] And that's when I went out and did the research
[11:01.1 - 11:03.0] and I ended up in Japan and I saw these things
[11:03.0 - 11:05.8] and I thought, wow, all I really thought is,
[11:05.8 - 11:08.8] whack, I hope nobody else who knows something
[11:08.8 - 11:10.3] about restaurants has done this
[11:10.3 - 11:12.2] because I think this could really work.
[11:12.2 - 11:15.5] In Japan, they were just like low-cost cafes.
[11:15.5 - 11:18.2] And I wanted, I so wanted to reinvent it
[11:18.2 - 11:20.1] and bring it back as a high-class deal,
[11:20.1 - 11:22.8] which is what I did two years later.
[11:22.8 - 11:23.9] Because you said in the book
[11:23.9 - 11:25.0] that you can't do market research
[11:25.0 - 11:26.7] in a market that doesn't exist.
[11:26.7 - 11:29.3] And I guess in the UK, it kind of didn't exist at the time.
[11:29.3 - 11:31.5] So is that the reason that you went out to Japan
[11:31.5 - 11:34.3] to look at what was going on?
[11:34.3 - 11:35.8] I remember coming back from Japan
[11:35.8 - 11:39.5] and Pret a Manger had just opened their first two stores
[11:39.5 - 11:41.9] and in one corner of Pret a Manger,
[11:41.9 - 11:43.9] there was a tiny bit of sushi.
[11:43.9 - 11:44.9] And other than that,
[11:44.9 - 11:48.5] it was just very, very expensive Japanese places.
[11:48.5 - 11:50.5] But I'd lived in Los Angeles
[11:50.5 - 11:54.1] where sushi had really taken off, you know, in Hollywood.
[11:54.1 - 11:55.9] And I used to absolutely love it.
[11:55.9 - 11:59.0] Go there and drink sushi and sake and beer.
[11:59.0 - 12:01.1] I just thought, this is amazing.
[12:01.1 - 12:03.3] And that was my market research, really,
[12:03.3 - 12:04.9] because I thought, if I think it's that amazing
[12:04.9 - 12:06.5] and it's that popular in America,
[12:06.5 - 12:09.2] and generally, whatever happens in America
[12:09.2 - 12:10.9] comes to England five years later,
[12:10.9 - 12:12.9] which is what we always used to say in those days,
[12:12.9 - 12:16.3] probably the same today, probably two years later.
[12:16.3 - 12:17.9] I thought, that's good enough for me.
[12:17.9 - 12:21.6] And as you say, all right, you know, if I'd said,
[12:21.6 - 12:23.6] you know, do you want to eat raw fish
[12:23.6 - 12:26.4] off conveyor belts with robots serving the drinks?
[12:26.4 - 12:28.1] Yeah, people aren't exactly going to say,
[12:28.1 - 12:29.7] what is this guy on about?
[12:29.7 - 12:30.5] So you can't argue with that too much.
[12:30.5 - 12:31.9] It just sounds like a really bad fishing trip
[12:31.9 - 12:33.5] when you get to Heathrow Terminal 5
[12:33.5 - 12:35.9] and you've got some fish in a suitcase
[12:35.9 - 12:37.1] going around the conveyor.
[12:37.1 - 12:38.8] It's not exactly the most appealing image,
[12:38.8 - 12:42.6] but I guess the reason that, you know,
[12:43.3 - 12:45.5] you were back to grow your sushi back in the day
[12:45.5 - 12:47.5] was, I guess, somewhat in part
[12:47.5 - 12:49.3] because you faked it until you kind of made it.
[12:49.3 - 12:51.9] You made it sound like Honda and Sony
[12:51.9 - 12:54.9] were behind the business, were investing in the business,
[12:54.9 - 12:58.3] when the reality is Honda had given you a delivery bike.
[12:58.3 - 13:00.3] Now, if I'd listened to the story that you said earlier on
[13:00.3 - 13:02.2] about how you were somewhat faking it
[13:02.2 - 13:03.7] to make it in the world of rock and roll
[13:03.7 - 13:05.8] and indeed television and making up stories
[13:05.8 - 13:08.7] to, you know, go out with a girl, so to speak,
[13:08.7 - 13:10.6] do you think that fake it, make it culture
[13:10.6 - 13:12.4] for entrepreneurs is so important?
[13:12.7 - 13:14.3] At what point does it kind of need to stop
[13:14.3 - 13:16.2] because you're just lying?
[13:16.2 - 13:17.7] I mean, it's an interesting thing.
[13:17.7 - 13:22.4] I mean, the idea, my idea was always say yes,
[13:22.4 - 13:24.0] you know, that you say yes
[13:24.0 - 13:25.8] and then figure out a way of doing it.
[13:25.8 - 13:27.7] So I suppose that is fake it to make it
[13:27.7 - 13:30.0] or act as if or whatever you call it.
[13:30.0 - 13:32.6] But building confidence is the thing.
[13:32.6 - 13:36.7] And confidence is very attractive in somebody.
[13:36.7 - 13:40.2] I mean, you know it just from doing this podcast,
[13:40.3 - 13:43.5] you know, when you're confident talking like we are
[13:43.5 - 13:45.5] in front of the camera and lots and lots of people
[13:45.5 - 13:49.7] watching you and you feel comfortable with that,
[13:49.7 - 13:52.1] you know, you can't imagine what it was like
[13:52.1 - 13:53.2] when you couldn't.
[13:53.2 - 13:55.6] But I'm sure I'd be surprised if you hadn't
[13:55.6 - 13:57.1] when you first started, you know,
[13:57.1 - 14:00.5] had a beating heart and a dry mouth and all of that.
[14:00.5 - 14:03.8] When I first started public speaking, I had all of that.
[14:03.8 - 14:06.8] And you know, you have to fake it a bit to do it.
[14:06.8 - 14:08.3] Yeah, no, I completely agree.
[14:08.3 - 14:11.2] I think when I started, I used to say
[14:11.2 - 14:13.1] that we'd worked with Vodafone.
[14:13.1 - 14:14.5] Now we'd never worked with Vodafone.
[14:14.5 - 14:15.7] We've never worked with Vodafone.
[14:15.7 - 14:17.3] But the reason I said that is because they were big enough
[14:17.3 - 14:20.7] for no one to ever find out whether we had or we hadn't.
[14:20.7 - 14:22.3] It's not as if you're going to go to the head of marketing
[14:22.3 - 14:23.7] and have, you know, have you worked with these guys
[14:23.7 - 14:24.8] because they're not going to know, right?
[14:24.8 - 14:27.1] So there was an element of that back in the day
[14:27.1 - 14:29.2] when I started whatever it was 10 or 11 years ago.
[14:29.2 - 14:31.3] And, you know, you talk about those sleepless nights,
[14:31.3 - 14:33.5] those dry mouths and that trepidation.
[14:33.5 - 14:36.3] And you must have had exactly that for the first week
[14:36.4 - 14:37.5] when you opened Yo! Sushi,
[14:37.5 - 14:39.9] because no one came through the door
[14:39.9 - 14:40.8] within the first week, right?
[14:40.8 - 14:42.1] You'd raised this money,
[14:42.1 - 14:44.8] you'd opened this amazing sushi restaurant in Soho,
[14:44.8 - 14:46.7] but nobody was coming.
[14:46.7 - 14:48.3] And then the second week, there were queues around the block.
[14:48.3 - 14:49.6] Just talk to me about that process
[14:49.6 - 14:52.3] as to how, you know, you bootstrapped this really.
[14:52.3 - 14:53.7] You launched it and no one came.
[14:53.7 - 14:55.4] And then word of mouth was kind of the reality
[14:55.4 - 14:57.8] as to how and what grew Yo! Sushi.
[14:57.8 - 14:58.9] There wasn't a marketing budget.
[14:58.9 - 15:00.1] You didn't have paid social.
[15:00.1 - 15:01.5] You didn't do out of the home.
[15:01.5 - 15:03.3] People just said, this stuff is good.
[15:03.3 - 15:04.5] And then queues formed.
[15:04.5 - 15:05.7] Just talk to me about that process.
[15:05.7 - 15:07.2] Yeah, it was pre-internet.
[15:07.2 - 15:12.2] And what we actually did was that Mark Norton,
[15:12.2 - 15:16.1] who had designed the logo,
[15:16.1 - 15:20.2] who's a rock and roll album cover designer,
[15:20.2 - 15:22.5] only guy ever to have done, apart from Andy Warhol,
[15:22.5 - 15:24.9] to have done two Rolling Stones album covers.
[15:24.9 - 15:28.8] He put this great big, we were in Pona Street in the Soho.
[15:28.8 - 15:31.3] It was a big sort of 30 meter frontage,
[15:31.3 - 15:33.2] glass window frontage.
[15:33.2 - 15:34.9] And he covered it in paper,
[15:34.9 - 15:37.8] but printed it at a highfalutin shop
[15:37.8 - 15:39.3] so that it was all orange
[15:39.3 - 15:43.4] and it had some random words like, you know,
[15:43.4 - 15:48.4] Mackie and Kirin and robots and conveyor.
[15:48.4 - 15:52.0] And people in Soho, it was a backwater of Soho,
[15:52.0 - 15:53.9] but people would still be walking past them.
[15:53.9 - 15:55.6] But everybody going, what is this place?
[15:55.6 - 15:56.4] What is it?
[15:56.4 - 15:58.2] And we wouldn't let anybody see inside.
[15:58.2 - 16:01.6] And all the workmen were sworn to secrecy,
[16:01.7 - 16:02.8] not to open the door,
[16:02.8 - 16:05.0] not to tell anybody what was going on.
[16:05.0 - 16:07.9] So it caused a bit of, there was a bit of talk.
[16:07.9 - 16:08.9] And one day.
[16:09.0 - 16:20.2] Actually, January 22, 1997, we took the paper down and actually that night we had a launch
[16:20.2 - 16:24.6] party and we invited a load of people. It was a busy thing, but the next day the paper was down
[16:24.6 - 16:27.9] and people were walking past their way to work and they were looking through the window and they
[16:27.9 - 16:34.9] could see these robotic stainless steel trolleys going past and conveyor belts going around and
[16:34.9 - 16:40.6] chefs in there and they go and people are coming up, what is this place? Is this a factory? And
[16:40.6 - 16:45.7] nobody came in because it was actually terrifying to go in. You didn't know what you were going
[16:45.7 - 16:51.7] into. Was it going to cost a fortune or nothing or what the hell is this thing? We'd say,
[16:51.7 - 16:59.6] come and have a look if you like. What is it? So that happened and people really didn't come in
[16:59.6 - 17:07.3] and I was really worried. I thought people must come in eventually, but it's such an
[17:07.3 - 17:14.6] unknown world that there was no precedent for it and we got through the first week and
[17:14.6 - 17:21.2] all the staff were saying, why is nobody coming in here? And the second Saturday, we had a general
[17:21.2 - 17:26.3] manager called Bruce Isaacs who helped me. He's very good at startups and he used to come down,
[17:26.3 - 17:31.4] he came downstairs to my little office downstairs and he said, it just went like this, he signaled
[17:31.4 - 17:36.0] to me and I came upstairs and there was a queue down the block. It was unbelievable. I mean, I
[17:36.0 - 17:40.0] think it was one of the best feelings I've ever had in my life and I've been on stages and I've
[17:40.0 - 17:47.3] been in all that stuff, but it was just such a relief and that queue lasted for five years.
[17:48.1 - 17:53.3] It was an incredible thing. It was a very, we never hit record. It was a very, very successful
[17:53.3 - 17:58.1] thing and it was pre-internet. Word of mouth had gone out and people are saying it was,
[17:58.1 - 18:04.4] you know, Tony Blair just got into power, it was Britpop, you know, Oasis were going to Downing
[18:04.4 - 18:12.5] Street, so was I. I'd arrived just at the right moment, you know, the timing was superb
[18:13.1 - 18:18.9] and I remember Julia Metcalfe actually coming in. Actually, I don't know how he got in, but he got
[18:18.9 - 18:24.3] in on our opening party and he's the guy who started Prêt-à-Manger and later he started
[18:24.3 - 18:30.5] Itsu, which was a competitor to us, and he came in and gave me a sort of Tiffany, silver Tiffany,
[18:31.8 - 18:36.9] good luck charm and said, look, here, this is for you and lots of respect to you, but he said,
[18:36.9 - 18:44.0] I'm sick as a pig because I'm going to start the same thing as you. It's called Itsu and everybody's
[18:44.0 - 18:51.6] going to think I copied you and I said, oh my god, I'm so sorry, but secretly I sort of punched
[18:51.6 - 18:55.8] the air, you know, I think, you know, great, I pulled that one off, that got lucky.
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[19:45.9 - 19:50.5] check out Incard using the link in the description. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen to
[19:50.5 - 19:54.9] this. Let's get back to the episode. And you mentioned, you mentioned in your book actually
[19:54.9 - 19:58.6] that you obviously started this around the age of 40 and that that should be some, you know,
[19:58.6 - 20:03.4] a piece of inspiration for founders that are, you know, 25 or younger or 30 or younger or 40 or
[20:03.4 - 20:07.8] younger or even 40 or older because so many people think that, you know, they're not sure when to
[20:07.8 - 20:11.4] start, right, is the real point here. And they think they get to a point in their life where
[20:11.4 - 20:16.9] they're just too old to start. But, you know, as I said, starting at 40 is not what most founders,
[20:16.9 - 20:21.3] first-time founders, first-time startup entrepreneurs do. They will start a lot younger
[20:21.3 - 20:24.8] than that. So, you know, what piece of advice have you got for those individuals, no matter
[20:24.8 - 20:30.1] where they are in their life, to start a business, to just make that leap? You know, why, why, why
[20:30.1 - 20:34.2] did you do it then? You had to, I guess. What would you do, what would you say to someone that
[20:34.2 - 20:40.7] didn't have that sort of push? Well, I've had small businesses before that, you know, I suppose
[20:40.7 - 20:46.9] I was an entrepreneur quite young, but never to do something on this scale. And, you know, we're
[20:46.9 - 20:52.4] lucky with this incredible age to live in because you can and you can start young. And I've often
[20:52.4 - 21:00.2] wondered where would we be now if I had started at 25 and not 45, you know, 20 years earlier,
[21:00.2 - 21:04.2] you know, and maybe, you know, I'd always had the ambition that, you know, I would be a
[21:04.2 - 21:10.6] another sort of Virgin and maybe I would have been another Richard Branson and have lots and lots
[21:10.6 - 21:15.6] of things on a massive scale. We're pretty big now just with the restaurants and the hotels,
[21:16.1 - 21:21.1] but not on that scale. So, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question.
[21:21.1 - 21:27.2] But I think it's amazing that kids can start so young. And of course, you've got much less to
[21:27.2 - 21:31.9] lose if you start because, you know, I've often said, you know, I never met the person who went.
[21:32.0 - 21:36.7] to do what they really dreamed of doing, regardless of whether they failed or succeeded, but I
[21:36.7 - 21:42.1] met lots of people who looked back and said, I wish I'd tried when I had the chance.
[21:42.1 - 21:46.7] And that is because even if you do fail, you learn so much from a failure.
[21:46.7 - 21:48.7] I saw that in Dragon's Den.
[21:48.7 - 21:53.7] People who've actually been in the muck of it, and things haven't worked, are in many
[21:53.7 - 21:56.9] ways more investable than the other way around.
[21:56.9 - 22:00.7] Certainly venture capitalists like people who've been around and have been through it
[22:00.7 - 22:07.4] and are hungry, somebody at 40, 45, with a lot of experience, there's a real call to
[22:07.4 - 22:13.1] action to get something to happen before you're 50 or 55, and you run out of time.
[22:13.1 - 22:16.7] You're absolutely right about the running out of time piece, and what strikes me is,
[22:16.7 - 22:20.3] you're an inspirational chat period, but what strikes me as super interesting is the fact
[22:20.3 - 22:26.1] that you're 74, which I find hard to believe, just to be clear, but also you're posting
[22:26.1 - 22:30.9] literally daily across multiple social channels, which people in their teens and their twenties
[22:30.9 - 22:35.3] and their thirties are struggling to do, and you're embracing this modern, literally modern
[22:35.3 - 22:41.0] era in a way that you are a teenager, you are a Gen Z, you are a Gen Alpha.
[22:41.0 - 22:45.5] How were you able to keep up at the point that you are in your life, and why, I guess, Simon?
[22:45.5 - 22:51.3] Well, first of all, I found that writing, which I didn't know I could do, and I didn't
[22:51.3 - 22:56.3] know I could do public speaking, and after Dragon's Den, I was all over the world doing
[22:56.3 - 23:00.7] public speaking, and those roadies that I'd worked with years and years before, they said,
[23:00.7 - 23:07.5] how the hell are you on stage, and I loved it, obviously, so yeah, you can learn lots and lots
[23:07.5 - 23:14.5] of things, and I learned writing, and I really enjoyed writing, first of all, the book of Yo,
[23:14.5 - 23:22.6] which came out 10 years ago, and then now Yo Man, and then I started publicizing, really, to
[23:23.5 - 23:30.9] publicize Yo Man, and so writing posts and performing in front of television, I've done
[23:30.9 - 23:36.5] lots of TV, so it was a kind of natural habitat for me being in front of the camera, and I was
[23:36.5 - 23:42.4] lucky enough to be born with a nice voice, so that was, I had a slightly big nose, but a nice voice,
[23:42.4 - 23:44.2] so I got a little bit of something.
[23:44.2 - 23:46.8] Is that from that military background, the old brigadier?
[23:46.8 - 23:51.7] But what has been great about social media, and I thought I was doing it to publicize the book,
[23:51.7 - 23:57.3] and actually interacting with people, I always swore that if I was ever in the position of being
[23:57.3 - 24:03.2] the one whose door was being knocked on, when I was knocking on the door, I would always answer
[24:03.2 - 24:08.1] people's calls, and so far, I have been able to do it, even though I said to you today,
[24:08.9 - 24:13.7] I, if people really want to get through to me, they can, and I'll even speak to them,
[24:13.7 - 24:19.6] and correspond with them, and help them, and it's been enormously surprising
[24:20.9 - 24:26.9] what fun it is to talk to people who are starting out, and you know, if I've got one talent,
[24:26.9 - 24:32.5] I've always said that there's a solution to any problem in life, and business, and everything,
[24:32.5 - 24:38.2] if you can find it, and often, it's often painful, and it's often to do with the individual
[24:38.2 - 24:43.3] seeing things a different way, or changing themselves, but I found that that is a talent
[24:43.3 - 24:49.9] I have with people, is to get to know people, and I know what they should be doing to make the change,
[24:49.9 - 24:56.5] to get out of the muck of wherever they're in, and to build something, both on a practical level
[24:56.5 - 25:01.2] of how to build a business, but also on a personal level of how to be the person,
[25:01.2 - 25:09.6] rather like the title of your, of this podcast, how to become the person who can do those things,
[25:10.3 - 25:15.3] and so that has been a real revelation, and a pleasure, so I've kept going with it, and
[25:15.3 - 25:21.8] yes, I've embraced it all, AI, the whole lot, I always said, you know, I always said, never let
[25:21.8 - 25:28.6] the old man in, well he certainly isn't, never let the old man in, and it's no act, I'm absolutely
[25:29.3 - 25:35.7] obsessed, well I'm obsessed with living as long as possible, just so I can see these incredible
[25:35.7 - 25:42.9] changes that are happening, and I'm totally pro the exploration of space, I'm totally pro AI in
[25:42.9 - 25:51.6] every form, and it doesn't scare me, you know, mainly because you cannot reverse culture, you
[25:51.6 - 25:57.3] really can't, even though actually I live in Thailand a lot of the year, and I live in a place
[25:57.3 - 26:02.5] that's very old-fashioned, so I can escape it a little bit, but you know, the actual world can't
[26:02.5 - 26:08.8] escape it, so it's better to embrace it, and try and make it really, help use it to make a really
[26:08.8 - 26:14.9] good world, although we're in troubled times, out of troubled times come good times, and come
[26:14.9 - 26:21.6] enormous change, which is what, which is really, I think, why we're living in troubled times, because
[26:21.6 - 26:26.8] we need enormous change, not least in terms of how we govern countries, you know, the idea of having
[26:26.8 - 26:32.8] these, without getting too heavy about it, the idea of having sort of 800,000, 2,000 people in a
[26:32.8 - 26:38.1] parliament, arguing with each other all day, when you know, you look at Singapore or Switzerland,
[26:38.1 - 26:43.1] have an executive of 40 people, paid very, very well to execute the will of the path, the will of
[26:43.1 - 26:50.6] the people, that's executions, you know, ideas, we've had them since Eve first met Adam, but take
[26:50.6 - 26:54.9] from me, execution's the key, it's not about
[26:55.0 - 27:02.3] the principles. So I think we'll, as the pendulum swims so far, I think we'll see a real change.
[27:03.2 - 27:06.6] Very interesting. And you had political ambitions, we won't go into it in too much depth,
[27:06.6 - 27:11.2] but you served in my right in saying time in prison as well. And you wanted to look at prison
[27:11.2 - 27:17.0] reform as a as a potential political activation. Just talk to me about about that.
[27:17.0 - 27:21.3] I was when I when I left school, and if I have the courage to tell you the story,
[27:22.0 - 27:29.1] when I left school, I went to Cambridge Tech to do ostensibly to do A-levels. I sold a bit of hash
[27:29.1 - 27:34.2] to a few mates and this, that and the other on a very, very small scale. And the drug squad
[27:34.2 - 27:41.0] arrived one day. And the policeman hiding behind our doors famously said to me, he said, he said,
[27:42.5 - 27:46.7] it's a fair cop, Simon. I said, I'm not a criminal. He said, I think you may be, son.
[27:47.3 - 27:50.1] And it was actually very nice, you know, we did it. But I did serve,
[27:50.9 - 27:57.5] I was in a young person's jail for eight weeks. And that that curtailed what could have been a
[27:58.1 - 28:02.8] very dangerous career, you know, because in my head, I think I was probably planning on
[28:02.8 - 28:07.7] doing something along those lines. One thing I learned from being in that place in that
[28:07.7 - 28:11.7] short period of time, and I've been into many prisons since just to see how the whole thing
[28:11.7 - 28:17.3] works. But, you know, fundamentally, we live in a country where, you know, throw away the key is
[28:17.3 - 28:22.8] generally what people think, or used to think, I think it's changing now. But what I thought when
[28:22.8 - 28:27.6] I was in there is there, but for the grace of God goes anybody who had had most of those people's
[28:27.6 - 28:32.8] backgrounds. I mean, I should have known better, for sure. Yeah, yeah. You know, I didn't have that.
[28:32.8 - 28:37.8] But if you were brought up by, you know, drug addict parents who burnt the furniture just to
[28:37.8 - 28:44.2] keep you warm, you know, it's a rational decision to go into crime. And these kids,
[28:44.2 - 28:50.0] lots of them were brought up in crime families and all of that. So, you know, I do think that,
[28:50.0 - 28:55.2] you know, to solve the, you know, the prison overpopulation thing, it has to go back to
[28:55.2 - 29:01.9] long term education. Because a lot of families simply aren't equipped to educate their children
[29:02.2 - 29:08.8] at home. And it's down to schools and the state to help do that, and save enormous amounts of
[29:08.8 - 29:13.4] money, you know, the economic benefits to not having people, whatever that word is,
[29:13.4 - 29:20.1] I can never pronounce recidivism, or whatever it is, going back to crime, if you can stop that,
[29:20.1 - 29:26.6] and try to change people who are older is very, very hard. But although doable, but trying to
[29:26.6 - 29:32.2] change people who are younger is the way to do it. So I'm very, I'm very sympathetic to that.
[29:32.2 - 29:37.1] Prison is not a nice place at all. I hear you on that. And as you mentioned,
[29:37.1 - 29:41.0] that a lot of your life is very serendipitous. And maybe being, as you said, thrown in jail at
[29:41.0 - 29:45.8] that young age, did change the course of your of your career in your life and looking at you
[29:45.8 - 29:50.0] changing the course of other people's lives, whether you like to admit it or not, you were
[29:50.0 - 29:54.1] pretty instrumental, I'm sure in a lot of entrepreneurs formative years when when you
[29:54.1 - 29:58.4] were the original the OG, if you will, dragon on Dragon's Den sitting alongside Duncan Ballantyne
[29:58.4 - 30:03.0] and the great and good now, entrepreneurs will have come on that show wanting capital advice,
[30:03.0 - 30:07.6] investment, whatever it was, and you will have had the key or the unlock, if you will, to
[30:07.6 - 30:11.4] essentially their future. Now, you mentioned, obviously, that you're accessible to a lot of
[30:11.4 - 30:16.5] these individuals. Now anyone else that wants to reach out to you online can, what was the purpose
[30:16.5 - 30:21.7] that you went on to Dragon's Den? Was it to 10x your investment? Was it to help individuals? Was
[30:21.7 - 30:28.3] it to raise your profile? What was the thought process there? Well, going back a couple of years
[30:28.3 - 30:37.9] before three years before, suddenly, in the post.com last minute, when all that was happening,
[30:37.9 - 30:47.2] that revolution, in the mid 90s, entrepreneurs suddenly had gone from being either people in
[30:47.2 - 30:52.7] cufflinks and ties in boardrooms, or spivs selling something off the back of the lorry,
[30:52.7 - 30:59.1] you know, at the other end of the business scale. And we'd become fashionable. And there were lots
[30:59.1 - 31:04.0] of TV shows. And I remember doing Mind of a Millionaire, which is actually where I first
[31:04.0 - 31:08.7] met Duncan Ballantyne, which is a three part series by the BBC in London's richest, they got
[31:08.7 - 31:14.0] that one wrong, and all sorts of entrepreneurial things. And then The Apprentice came out.
[31:14.6 - 31:20.0] And Duncan actually tipped me off about Dragon's Den. He said, you're best to earn money on air.
[31:20.0 - 31:26.9] And I just sold, you know, sushi for the first time. I sold it three times, and I made a little
[31:26.9 - 31:31.7] bit of money, not a great deal. That was when you took the first 2 million. Was that right?
[31:31.7 - 31:35.8] Yeah, that's right. First 2 million, which I suppose was about 6 million a day's money.
[31:36.5 - 31:41.7] And so, you know, I was a bit embarrassed, it wasn't so much, you know, anyway, the producers
[31:41.8 - 31:45.6] would see me on these other TV shows, they wanted me to do it. And I said, No, no, no,
[31:45.6 - 31:50.3] I'm not going to waste my money on, on doing something like that. And then everybody was
[31:50.3 - 31:54.5] talking about this, everybody in the entrepreneurial world, they're all trying to get on with Dragon,
[31:54.5 - 31:59.0] you know, I wanted to be on this TV show, because they realized that TV exposure was incredibly good
[31:59.0 - 32:03.9] for them and the business and everything creates lots of opportunities. And I was kicking myself.
[32:03.9 - 32:10.1] And then one day, I got a call from the producers. And they said, they said, we just done a pilot
[32:10.1 - 32:13.8] of the show. And one of the guys hasn't cut the mustard, one of the
[32:13.8 - 32:17.8] dragons hasn't cut the mustard. And would you reconsider Simon?
[32:18.0 - 32:24.8] thought oh yeah thank you step this way so yes i did and and that's that's how i very nearly wasn't
[32:24.8 - 32:31.1] on it at all um but it was it was it was a magnificent thing to do i just did the first
[32:31.1 - 32:38.3] series but um it was um it took off very very fast and you know partly because i've done all
[32:38.3 - 32:45.5] these other tv shows and i got to be a little bit famous in that in that period and um it was very
[32:45.5 - 32:50.7] very useful and i think you know what we realize today is that getting that publicity in this very
[32:50.7 - 32:56.6] very crowded world not least sitting on something like this with you one bit at a time um is
[32:56.6 - 33:04.0] enormously useful to to tell people look whatever you do in this world today the competition is so
[33:04.0 - 33:09.3] great that to survive you've got to be great great great great great great great great great
[33:09.3 - 33:15.3] great but you've also got to raise a flag above the parapet put your head up be willing to be
[33:15.3 - 33:22.3] counted if you can talk about it and engage people and um make them love you and your brand and all
[33:22.3 - 33:29.5] of that um you know it's enormously helpful and that was on on your sushi that was enormously
[33:29.5 - 33:33.9] helpful there's also a lot of fun doing that that first dragon's den show and i met some really
[33:33.9 - 33:38.7] interesting people and got exposed to things that i'd never done and of course my speaking
[33:38.7 - 33:43.8] engagements all that all the um that went up around the world i was getting 10 or 15 grand
[33:43.9 - 33:49.2] pop and speaking all over the world and that was that was that was pretty cool i was pretty very
[33:49.2 - 33:54.4] excited how exciting and obviously the yo sushi side of things you say that you sold three times
[33:54.4 - 33:58.4] now just talk me through that process because there's entrepreneurs out there that will go
[33:58.4 - 34:03.8] yeah i can take secondaries when i raise capital yes i can exit totally but how can i sell it three
[34:03.8 - 34:08.6] times what was the process how did that work for you because ultimately you exited for was it 10
[34:08.6 - 34:13.9] million you kept a percentage of the business's royalties over the period of time i am i am i owned
[34:13.9 - 34:21.1] 95 of as you rightly say i had those sponsors behind me who had given me some tv sets and an
[34:21.1 - 34:29.1] upgrade on an airline and a free bike and everybody in the world thought that we were a big deal
[34:29.1 - 34:34.1] backed by these people so i got enormous credit so that is the reason i never needed the angel
[34:34.1 - 34:39.6] investors pre-crowdfunding people that i never needed the angel investors and we paid off for
[34:39.6 - 34:47.1] out of earnings all our debts um so that's how i found it and i ended up owning 90 of the company
[34:47.1 - 34:52.9] so we went to venture capitalists first to one of the big ones in those days three i a big venture
[34:52.9 - 34:58.6] capitalist and then later to a smaller one primary but primary capital and they we did a deal with
[34:58.6 - 35:04.6] them and i was to get a royalty um one percent of turnover in perpetuity it was a very small
[35:04.6 - 35:09.2] amount in those days because it's growing to a much much bigger apartment and i was getting two
[35:09.2 - 35:17.4] million quid and i reduced my shareholding from 90 to 25 and so that was the first time we sold
[35:17.4 - 35:23.3] then we actually did a refinancing which however that works as a complicated one i've got a million
[35:24.1 - 35:29.7] and then um that was a bit of smoke and mirrors i got another million then and then i got then i
[35:29.7 - 35:36.8] sold the rest of my shareholding for another 10 million so i've earned 13 million by that time
[35:37.3 - 35:45.3] and um and that was 30 that was 25 years ago and i've earned far more than that from the royalty
[35:45.3 - 35:50.6] of one percent so you know i don't know what i've earned out of it but you know probably 40 50
[35:50.6 - 35:58.4] million quid at your sushi and then then we we started um yotel um and that that is a much much
[35:58.4 - 36:05.9] bigger business than yo sushi ever was or and it's growing very fast behind that well this is what i
[36:05.9 - 36:09.6] was going to double click into because i believe yo sushi's valuation is what half a billion give
[36:09.6 - 36:17.3] or take um at the point that you did yo sushi was it was it was actually called yo sushi up until
[36:17.3 - 36:22.6] that time but it it's they bought companies around the world who are in the sushi business
[36:22.6 - 36:27.3] and some of them trade as yo sushi and some of them didn't trade as yo sushi so it wasn't just
[36:27.3 - 36:36.1] yo sushi um and then they sold believe it or not they sold about two years ago they sold the entire
[36:36.1 - 36:43.7] business to um zenture which is a big japanese company big japanese food company for i think it
[36:43.7 - 36:52.3] was 850 million dollars um okay so i would say probably half of that was the valuation of yo
[36:52.3 - 36:57.5] sushi so you're probably about right guys i think i found something that might be super useful for
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[37:43.4 - 37:44.7] Thanks for taking the time to listen.
[37:44.7 - 37:47.1] Let's get back to the episode.
[37:47.1 - 37:48.2] What an exciting journey,
[37:48.2 - 37:49.8] and obviously the Yo brand continued
[37:49.8 - 37:51.5] even after your Yo Sushi days,
[37:51.5 - 37:53.9] because you said, you know, had Yotel, for instance.
[37:53.9 - 37:56.9] Now, what makes it a Yo idea?
[37:56.9 - 37:59.1] You know, obviously there's, if you look at Stelios,
[37:59.1 - 38:01.3] there's the Yeezy Jet, the Yeezy Hotel, et cetera.
[38:01.3 - 38:03.4] You mentioned Virgin earlier with Virgin Atlantic,
[38:03.4 - 38:06.2] Virgin Airlines, sorry, Virgin Voyages, et cetera.
[38:06.2 - 38:09.2] Are you or were you trying to build an empire,
[38:09.2 - 38:11.0] a Yo empire, if you will, like those two?
[38:11.0 - 38:12.7] No, that's exactly what I wanted to do.
[38:12.7 - 38:17.2] I remember thinking, look, it's amazing
[38:17.2 - 38:19.8] that nobody has taken one brand name
[38:19.8 - 38:22.0] and done what Virgin have done with it,
[38:22.0 - 38:25.1] and indeed what Stelios has done in a very different way.
[38:25.1 - 38:27.5] And I don't know anybody who's really done that.
[38:27.5 - 38:28.3] And I thought, you know,
[38:28.3 - 38:30.3] Yo is in a position to do that as a third thing.
[38:30.3 - 38:33.8] So I thought the next thing I'll do is a hotel business.
[38:33.8 - 38:35.7] And actually, in the meantime,
[38:35.7 - 38:37.6] we'd done Yo Japan, the clothing range,
[38:37.6 - 38:39.1] and I've tried to license Yo,
[38:39.1 - 38:40.9] and I went down all sorts of tracks.
[38:41.9 - 38:45.9] As Richard Branson did, he was into Coca-Cola and vodka
[38:45.9 - 38:47.7] and all of these, he's had more failures
[38:47.7 - 38:50.5] than he has successes in that respect.
[38:50.5 - 38:53.3] But he's obviously done very, very well.
[38:53.3 - 38:56.2] But yes, it was exactly what I was trying to do,
[38:56.2 - 38:59.9] but the hotel was the one that really took off.
[38:59.9 - 39:00.9] And I did that.
[39:00.9 - 39:03.4] Eventually, I got a guy called Gerard Green,
[39:03.4 - 39:05.7] and he was a young consultant,
[39:05.8 - 39:07.9] and he was passionate about hotels.
[39:07.9 - 39:10.2] And he fronted it along with me,
[39:10.2 - 39:15.2] and we raised, actually raised $13 million in Kuwait
[39:15.9 - 39:17.7] from a Kuwaiti company.
[39:17.7 - 39:21.3] And we opened two hotels, one at Gatwick
[39:21.3 - 39:22.2] and one at the Heathrow.
[39:22.2 - 39:23.4] That was the idea originally,
[39:23.4 - 39:26.5] that we'd sell the rooms by the hour in hotel,
[39:26.5 - 39:31.5] in airports and rail hubs.
[39:31.5 - 39:34.5] And then it got much, much bigger.
[39:34.5 - 39:35.8] And Gerard went to New York,
[39:35.8 - 39:39.4] and we did a deal in New York
[39:39.4 - 39:43.9] to open nearly 700 rooms in New York.
[39:43.9 - 39:46.2] And suddenly we were on a much bigger plan
[39:46.2 - 39:47.9] and then 400 rooms in Singapore.
[39:47.9 - 39:49.8] And then the whole thing took off
[39:49.8 - 39:50.8] and start with capital,
[39:50.8 - 39:53.2] got involved and put $500 million in.
[39:53.2 - 39:55.5] And it was a whole number.
[39:55.5 - 39:58.5] Very, very exciting to see it all happen.
[39:58.5 - 39:59.8] Well, that's a much bigger journey.
[39:59.8 - 40:03.2] And I guess in terms of the second time founder mentality,
[40:03.2 - 40:05.7] albeit you'd had lots of businesses prior to the old days,
[40:05.7 - 40:07.7] but let's just term it as second time.
[40:07.7 - 40:10.6] You obviously potentially put a bit of your own capital
[40:10.6 - 40:12.1] into it to sort of front bits,
[40:12.1 - 40:13.4] but you raised money as well.
[40:13.4 - 40:15.1] How important is it?
[40:15.1 - 40:18.8] And why did you put some money and not all of the money
[40:18.8 - 40:19.9] and then go and raise money?
[40:19.9 - 40:22.0] Because a lot of people will look at this and go,
[40:22.0 - 40:24.4] just front to yourself, have 100% of it.
[40:24.4 - 40:25.6] What was the reason for that?
[40:25.6 - 40:28.4] My model looking back,
[40:28.4 - 40:30.5] and it wasn't particularly planned that way,
[40:30.5 - 40:32.8] but is to seed fund something,
[40:32.8 - 40:34.9] get it off the ground with my own money,
[40:34.9 - 40:38.1] without somebody, an investor looking over my shoulder,
[40:38.1 - 40:39.5] do it on a very small scale,
[40:39.5 - 40:43.4] which we did at Gatwick and Heathrow with Yotel,
[40:43.4 - 40:44.9] do it on a very small scale.
[40:44.9 - 40:48.1] And then once that's done,
[40:48.1 - 40:52.8] then you get the publicity and you become investable.
[40:52.8 - 40:57.2] But seed funding still today for a startup,
[40:57.2 - 40:59.4] I still do the old,
[40:59.4 - 41:02.5] maybe you're lucky to get a Kickstarter or crowdfunding.
[41:03.1 - 41:04.0] And I think people do these days,
[41:04.0 - 41:05.0] but certainly in my day,
[41:05.0 - 41:06.9] it was, we called it the three Fs,
[41:06.9 - 41:08.8] friends, family, and fools.
[41:08.8 - 41:11.7] And certainly you don't,
[41:12.9 - 41:14.4] certainly in those days,
[41:14.4 - 41:15.4] I think it's the same today,
[41:15.4 - 41:16.8] and nobody's going to put money into
[41:16.8 - 41:18.7] unless you put everything on the line.
[41:18.7 - 41:20.6] And Yo Sushi, I put everything I had,
[41:20.6 - 41:23.2] I had 200,000 pounds tied up in my flat.
[41:23.2 - 41:25.4] And I put that 100% of that on the line
[41:25.4 - 41:26.8] and actually got matched
[41:26.8 - 41:28.9] by a government loan guarantee scheme,
[41:28.9 - 41:30.7] which is under 200 grand.
[41:30.7 - 41:34.0] And the 100 grand is worth a very expensive leasing.
[41:34.0 - 41:36.1] And I actually opened, that was 500 grand,
[41:36.1 - 41:38.0] I opened the million pound restaurant,
[41:38.0 - 41:40.9] basically on credit and on belief
[41:40.9 - 41:44.1] that we were backed by Sony, Honda, and all of our allies.
[41:44.1 - 41:47.6] So that's actually what happened.
[41:48.5 - 41:50.4] You mentioned that,
[41:50.4 - 41:52.4] why be a millionaire if you don't like buying things?
[41:52.4 - 41:54.2] I guess, do you like buying things?
[41:54.2 - 41:56.1] Would you like investing in things and building stuff?
[41:56.1 - 41:58.5] Because for me, I quite enjoy buying stocks,
[41:58.5 - 42:00.3] investing in businesses and growing something
[42:00.3 - 42:02.9] rather than going out and buying a new pair of shoes.
[42:02.9 - 42:05.8] Just sort of talk to me about that saying that you have.
[42:05.8 - 42:07.9] Well, I wouldn't say I'm sort of mean,
[42:07.9 - 42:10.4] I mean, I like a nice shirt.
[42:10.4 - 42:12.1] Yeah, I can see it's fantastic.
[42:12.1 - 42:15.4] Exactly, I've always enjoyed dressing up.
[42:15.4 - 42:16.8] And I think that's probably pretty good
[42:16.8 - 42:19.0] for business as well, get noticed.
[42:20.5 - 42:23.6] Yeah, but no, I don't think,
[42:23.6 - 42:25.3] I do like buying lots of things.
[42:25.3 - 42:27.1] In fact, I don't,
[42:27.1 - 42:31.4] I've lived fairly lightly through life,
[42:31.4 - 42:34.8] and I don't often have thought,
[42:34.8 - 42:36.0] and I can say it today,
[42:36.0 - 42:38.5] I don't think there's anything that I own.
[42:38.5 - 42:41.5] There's no sentimental value in any material thing.
[42:41.5 - 42:44.2] And there's nothing I own that I'd really mind losing.
[42:47.7 - 42:50.3] I'd be pretty upset if I didn't have any money in the bank,
[42:50.3 - 42:53.1] but enough money to live the rest of my life
[42:53.1 - 42:54.2] is very, very nice.
[42:54.2 - 42:55.0] Thank you very much.
[42:55.3 - 42:56.3] Don't let anybody tell you
[42:56.3 - 42:58.0] that money doesn't make you happy.
[42:58.9 - 43:00.0] It doesn't actually make you happy,
[43:00.0 - 43:02.4] but it stops you being unhappy, that's for sure.
[43:04.0 - 43:10.7] um something along those lines you know that's that's very true that's very true and i think
[43:10.7 - 43:14.3] what what's interesting is that you've tried to do lots of things across the course of your career
[43:14.3 - 43:18.1] branson's tried to do lots of things across the course of the year his career and things haven't
[43:18.1 - 43:23.0] worked now you obviously mentioned that the ai is is is happening we all know that ai is a big
[43:23.0 - 43:27.9] revolution that's that's that's here um and there's a lot of opportunity for people to be busy fools
[43:27.9 - 43:33.3] and to do a lot of stuff and to test a lot of a lot of things now when should you focus on the
[43:33.3 - 43:38.0] mothership when should you focus on the here and now when should you test iterate learn and do more
[43:38.0 - 43:42.8] because it strikes me as the fact that you've done a lot of things in a short period of time
[43:42.8 - 43:46.4] some have worked and some haven't if you're just hyper focused on one would it have been better
[43:47.2 - 43:56.3] yeah i've made that mistake an awful lot of times and um i think that is the right thing to do is to
[43:56.3 - 44:01.2] just absolutely focus on one thing if you can find the right thing by all means keep several
[44:01.2 - 44:07.4] on the goes keep several balls juggling in the air at the outset but once you've got something
[44:07.4 - 44:13.5] 100 focus and don't take your eye off the ball that makes is there neurodiversity within you
[44:13.5 - 44:19.8] have you got some sort of neurological disorder the wrong term i get a tv show once where they
[44:19.8 - 44:25.2] they they uh they wanted to go in and figure out if you've got one of those uh what is it called
[44:25.2 - 44:30.1] what's the dysfunction call where you can't concentrate on something dyslexia dyslexia
[44:31.5 - 44:35.8] and i i don't have dyslexia i always felt a bit inadequate for not having dyslexia
[44:41.7 - 44:47.1] but uh yeah no i think um i think you know it's a slightly fucked up childhood
[44:52.9 - 45:00.4] if there's anybody listening who is you know a bit people say they're difficult or a bit
[45:00.4 - 45:09.2] chippy or you know you know abrasive or whatever it ain't a bad thing to have i'll tell you it it
[45:09.2 - 45:15.7] gets you if there's a bit of a grit in that oyster it gets you out doing things and right we're gonna
[45:15.7 - 45:21.0] do it and i've always had that and that's been a driver not caring what people thought well i do
[45:21.0 - 45:27.9] care what people think actually i'm very sensitive dear but um i can act over that and i don't care
[45:27.9 - 45:35.9] and i i am i'll just do it do what i do so giving um giving up simon have you ever thought about
[45:35.9 - 45:41.5] just throwing the towel in and going i actually just can't do this send me back to jail no no i'm
[45:41.5 - 45:48.0] i'm uh because i've let go and let others which is what you were talking about and what you were
[45:48.0 - 45:54.7] saying isn't it difficult to let go i really i was so extreme in terms of being a control freak
[45:55.2 - 46:02.9] that i really had to learn to let go and i really got to be good at letting go and that is what
[46:02.9 - 46:09.6] means that i can sit here with quite a few things going on in the world and relatively little stress
[46:10.3 - 46:17.0] and i'm much better with relatively little stress um i can make better decisions i can help people
[46:17.0 - 46:24.3] more um so yeah that is that is the thing but most i think a lot of founders and entrepreneurs
[46:24.3 - 46:29.3] find it very hard to let go of their baby but they're not our babies you're just borrowing it
[46:29.3 - 46:34.8] for a period of time and you're only here for a period of time as well it's very true and you
[46:34.8 - 46:38.7] might as well make the most of it whilst you are here and i guess if you always have you always
[46:38.7 - 46:42.4] built businesses to sell then i think that's an interesting piece to double click into because
[46:42.4 - 46:47.6] so many people go into companies or businesses or found a life and go i am going to get to an exit
[46:47.6 - 46:52.4] now less than one percent of people ever sell a business right most fail in the first three years
[46:52.4 - 46:56.7] get to 10 years you're lucky if you can build it for life then it's it's happy days really
[46:56.7 - 47:02.1] if you can sell it credit to you what's your strategy build sell or build and grow i was
[47:02.1 - 47:09.8] lucky because we sold 30 early on because we needed the money to expand and actually at one
[47:09.8 - 47:13.9] point we didn't tell the venture capitalists when we got in but we actually needed the money to
[47:13.9 - 47:19.8] survive you know even their due diligence wasn't didn't quite realize what a hole we were in
[47:20.5 - 47:27.9] uh it looked good on the outside so i learned early on that simple lesson which is it's much
[47:27.9 - 47:32.6] better to have a small part of something that's really growing and a big one and also i think
[47:32.6 - 47:42.5] because i've managed to license um the word yo the the brand of yo just to food and beverage
[47:42.5 - 47:48.6] and keep the rest of all other sectors free and clear for myself it wasn't as if i was giving up
[47:48.6 - 47:54.2] my baby yo i still had the baby i'm just giving up you know i still have the children i was just
[47:54.2 - 48:02.2] giving up one of them to um so to yo sushi so i let that one go and it goes along with the hotel
[48:02.2 - 48:08.5] and the whole of other stuff that i was going to do in those days so that that's that's the way i
[48:08.5 - 48:16.4] i cope with what you're talking about but yes to plan to exit i mean the earlier you get to
[48:16.4 - 48:21.6] realizing that and you know the the it's not rocket science to know that
[48:22.2 - 48:26.8] that you need you need to plan three years out
[48:27.0 - 48:31.0] through three years of good accounts, and three years of
[48:31.0 - 48:34.3] well organized, lots of pipelines, so that there's a
[48:34.3 - 48:39.7] very big opportunity for the next person coming in. And, you
[48:39.7 - 48:43.3] know, the day you start a business is a pretty good day,
[48:43.3 - 48:47.5] the day I started it was pretty good. And the day I sold it was
[48:47.6 - 48:48.5] was even better.
[48:48.6 - 48:51.7] And everything in between is just ups and downs. I'm a bit
[48:51.7 - 48:54.3] I'm a bit disappointed, Simon, that you didn't call your book
[48:54.3 - 48:59.5] yo, yo, the up and down. It's yo, man, I appreciate it's yo
[48:59.5 - 49:02.5] man, it's good. But maybe the next iteration can be yo, yo,
[49:02.5 - 49:04.2] the story of my life or something like that.
[49:05.2 - 49:07.7] Yeah, yeah, the things you didn't, the things you didn't
[49:07.7 - 49:11.3] read in yo, man. But actually, yo, man, you read it, but it's
[49:11.3 - 49:14.3] got a lot about failure. It's got a lot of things that went
[49:14.3 - 49:20.9] wrong. And it does what it felt like to me. And, you know, it's
[49:20.9 - 49:23.1] I think there's a thing on the back that says it's brutally
[49:23.1 - 49:26.8] honest. And I don't know, I just think it's just that my
[49:26.8 - 49:31.3] story, would it brutally honest or whatever you like. But yeah,
[49:31.3 - 49:35.1] it is because it's what I wanted to read the story about somebody
[49:35.1 - 49:38.5] doing something like what I've been lucky enough to achieve is
[49:38.5 - 49:42.2] I want to know what it actually feels like to be in that I want
[49:42.2 - 49:46.8] to know, the money is involved. I want to know it straight from
[49:46.8 - 49:50.8] the horse's mouth, if you like, without it just being a big ego
[49:50.8 - 49:54.0] trip about we say I did this. And then next I did that. And
[49:54.0 - 49:57.9] I'm great. But it wasn't like that. I mean, it was like, are
[49:57.9 - 50:01.2] we going to get through this? Which I think is what most
[50:01.2 - 50:02.1] people go through.
[50:02.6 - 50:05.3] They do it feels it feels properly authentic. I mean, you
[50:05.3 - 50:07.3] know, some of the quotes on the back, he's authentic, the real
[50:07.3 - 50:10.3] deal, tremendous example of risk taking strategy and tactics. And
[50:10.3 - 50:14.7] having read it, the reason I sort of felt more kinta or
[50:14.7 - 50:17.1] aligned to that than I have other entrepreneurial books is
[50:17.3 - 50:20.3] because it's not sugarcoated. It's not rose tinted spectacles.
[50:20.3 - 50:22.6] It's, there was a lot of mistakes, a lot of buggering up
[50:22.6 - 50:26.2] along the way. And you came out on top. And I can somewhat relate
[50:26.3 - 50:30.4] to that because having graduated college or school with one GCSE
[50:30.4 - 50:33.8] muddled through bootstrapped a business scaled it and sold it.
[50:34.0 - 50:37.7] Not my plan didn't go as smoothly as people think there
[50:37.7 - 50:39.9] were a lot of issues along the way. So I think it's a really
[50:39.9 - 50:41.8] good read for founders and entrepreneurs to just see what
[50:41.8 - 50:44.9] it's like, as a boot on the ground as an individual that is
[50:44.9 - 50:48.4] bootstrapping something, if you will. So no, really, really good
[50:48.4 - 50:51.4] in that sense. And in terms, Simon of entrepreneurial advice
[50:51.4 - 50:53.6] that you would give to someone that is starting out a business
[50:53.6 - 50:56.9] here and now in this climate with AI, with the kind of
[50:57.3 - 51:00.3] turmoil that is going on in the world, what would you do if you
[51:00.3 - 51:01.1] had your time again?
[51:03.6 - 51:07.4] Well, for a kickoff, most of your listeners are probably more
[51:07.4 - 51:10.4] qualified to start a business at this period of their lives. And
[51:10.4 - 51:16.4] in this period of history that I am, I, there was a TV show that
[51:16.4 - 51:18.9] somebody wanted to do where you, you got all your money
[51:18.9 - 51:21.4] taken away from you, you're given 1000 pounds, and you're
[51:21.4 - 51:23.8] told to go off and start something. And I remember
[51:23.8 - 51:27.1] thinking about, Oh, God, I don't know if I could pull that one
[51:27.1 - 51:29.6] off. You know, how would you do that? That's, you know, I
[51:29.6 - 51:32.3] suppose it happened. I probably would have said yes, as in say
[51:32.3 - 51:36.1] yes. Yeah. But I've, you know, my mom always used to say
[51:36.1 - 51:38.6] there's never a convenient time to have babies. And I think
[51:38.6 - 51:41.2] there's never a convenient time to start businesses.
[51:41.2 - 51:44.6] No, I agree. The saying that I have that I use for to underline
[51:44.6 - 51:46.9] exactly that point about never a good time is, there isn't a
[51:46.9 - 51:48.9] good time to start a business. But in business, you should have
[51:48.9 - 51:51.4] a good time. And I think it's super important. If you aren't
[51:51.4 - 51:54.6] having a good time and enjoying what you're doing. It ain't
[51:54.6 - 51:55.4] really working.
[51:58.6 - 52:02.4] For me, I think, you know, in terms of I guess how people can
[52:02.4 - 52:05.8] reach out to you, then Simon and how people can follow your
[52:05.8 - 52:09.2] journey by yo man, which is out in shops and online as an
[52:09.2 - 52:15.3] audiobook, June 4 26. How can people reach out to the OG
[52:15.3 - 52:16.3] dragon that is?
[52:16.7 - 52:20.9] Yeah, well, if you go to yo.co.uk, you can actually
[52:20.9 - 52:25.6] connect with me there. There's an email address there. And at
[52:25.7 - 52:31.8] yo Simon Woodruff is my handle for social media. And I'm
[52:31.8 - 52:32.5] available.
[52:32.5 - 52:35.1] Perfect. I've loved every minute of this is brilliant. It's a
[52:35.1 - 52:37.8] great read. And best of luck with the launch.
[52:37.9 - 52:39.0] Thanks so much.
[52:39.3 - 52:41.3] Appreciate you listening to the podcast. Hopefully you found it
[52:41.3 - 52:44.5] useful. For those that want to read up or learn more, head over
[52:44.5 - 52:48.2] to my LinkedIn page Oliver Bruce online, where you'll find a
[52:48.2 - 52:50.9] weekly newsletter called the Brucey bonus where we double
[52:50.9 - 52:54.5] click into more detail and give you more tips and tricks around
[52:54.5 - 52:58.1] how to scale your business. If you want to share this with
[52:58.1 - 53:01.6] friends, family, colleagues, business owners, people that are
[53:01.6 - 53:05.3] in your circle, then might find it useful. I would be super
[53:05.3 - 53:07.8] appreciative. I said at the beginning of the podcast, this
[53:07.8 - 53:11.1] does not grow on its own. This grows with you and we do it for
[53:11.1 - 53:14.8] you. So thank you so much for listening and catch you next
[53:14.8 - 53:18.5] time. I mentioned earlier, but I do think something that you guys
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