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Page 94: the Private Eye Podcast.

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Hello, and welcome to
another episode of page 94.

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My name's Andrew Hunter Murray, and
I'm here in the I Studio with Helen

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Lewis, Adam McQueen, at Ian Hislop.

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If you're watching this, you may have
already voted in the local elections.

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You might even know the results, But one
really interesting thing about the whole

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campaign is that so much of it has focused
on what we would think of previously as

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the edges of British politics, uh, on
right and left, reform in the greens.

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Uh, it seems increasingly quite
hard for the conservatives in labor.

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Traditionally quite big

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missed out the Lib Dems again.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm

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Poor Ed,

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Which is the theme of

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the campaign.

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Yeah.

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Literally, the Lib Dems are complaining.

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Our

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polls,

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they were consistent.

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No one even

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mentioned

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us.

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Yeah.

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It's very unfair.

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I

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so I just thought I'd mention them.

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them.

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is, is that a fair
summary, Helen, or is it

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I think that the Greens and Zach
Pilanski have taken up a vast

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majority of the oxygen in these
campaigns for a very good reason.

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A lot of the seats that are
being defended are labor seats

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that are kind of green facing.

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Some of them are, are reform facing.

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They expect to lose a
huge number of seats.

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So that's almost been kind of
factored in at this point, right?

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The story, if, if Labor even do slightly
better than you think, everyone will kind

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of fall about themselves with, with shock.

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I'm bracing myself for a both
reform and green saying the

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mainstream media underrated us,
but look how well we've done.

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This will be a lie if they

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say

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this.

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I would just say this.

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Everyone expects them
to do incredibly well.

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And one of the things I found most
interesting, I was reading, um,

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Jim Warton's very good newsletter,
London-centric, in which he referred

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to the fact they'd got their hands
on last year, reforms local elections

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playbook, their canvassing handbook.

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And one of the things they'd say
to their candidates are, "Let Nigel

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deal with the national issues.

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You just focus on, on Ulas or whatever
it might be on potholes, on the

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housing estate that no one wants built,
whatever it might be, that's one thing.

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And the other thing is don't
post anything on social media."

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At all.

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At

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all.

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don't think that this is now your
time to air your thoughts about

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the Middle East peace process.

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And so, I think having been through that
mega storm of lots and lots of reform

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candidates being found out to have
unpleasant views, they, there's something

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the parties is very aware of as a problem.

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The Greens are further back on
that learning curve, I would say.

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So we have two people who've been
arrested on allegations of antisemitism,

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one of them seen campaigning
out for the Greens after that.

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You have the Greens deputy lead in
Mothinalid saying to people who've

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been accused of antisemitism, you
know, get, think about challenging the

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party on this, you know, we shouldn't
give into these smear campaigns.

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So that fight that the Corbinir Labor
Party went through in the years 2015

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to 19 is now happening in very much
the glare of publicity for, for the

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Greens.

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we should say, of course, this is
in the wake of the Goldus green

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stabbings and, you know, renewed
focus on antisemitism in, in British

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public life.

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Well, it was prior to that as well.

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I mean, it was very obvious even prior to
the Stabbings and Gold's Green last week,

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the, the, there was a, a conserted kind
of campaign of, of, of, of violence and

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intimidation against the Jewish community.

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So there were firebomb attacks on, um,
most notoriously the, the, the ambulances,

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but also a couple of attempted arson
attacks at synagogues in, in North London.

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So it was quite clear that that
sort of stuff was going on.

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And even prior to the Gold's Green
stabbing, Zach Polancy came out and

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said one of the most idiotic things
that, that, that we needed to be wary

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of whether this was Jewish people
feeling unsafe or whether it was just a

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perception they had of unsafety, which,
um, I mean, there's quite a lot of clear

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evidence in there and fire bombs attacks.

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I, I would feel quite unsafe.

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Yeah, and the,

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and the stabbing outside Heaton Park,
uh, synagogue in Manchester as well.

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I, I mean, if you look at the figures, the
Jewish community in Britain is very small

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and it is enormously disproportionately
affected by hate crimes.

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There isn't a synagogue or a Jewish school
out there that doesn't have security

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around it, that doesn't have walls, you
know, and I think this is a community

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that has felt that it has been living in
fear for a, really quite a long time now.

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Now, every party, I would say,
has had its own problems with

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antisemitism in, in its ranks.

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I don't know about the Lib Dems actually.

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They, they may have managed
to dodge it, I'm not sure.

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Uh, but certainly, uh, this was a problem
in Labor under Jeremy Corbin There, there

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seemed to be lots of credit, credible
evidence that this is now a problem, in

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the contemporary Green Party.

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again, one shouldn't f-
forget that the leader

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of the Reform Party had,

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had quite a well

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publicized incident,

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uh, during his school

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days, um, which

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24 people gave evidence about and
which has now been dismissed and it's

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considered bad taste to bring it up.

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So I thought I would.

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Um, but it's not entirely gone, has it?

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Yeah.

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And re- reform candidates

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mostly now, are being discovered to

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have,

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Islamophobic or, uh, whatever you want

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to call

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it, uh, tendencies.

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But there was a period where
they were pretty anti-Semitic.

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Yeah.

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I

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I think it's an interesting insight into
the evolution of anti-Semitism in Britain

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is that it was the casual prejudice of
choice, well, one of them, on the right

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in the, in the '60s and '70s, and since
then it has been, yeah, there are still

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neo-Nazis out there, but it has also now
become associated with a particular left

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wing form of anti-Semitism, which bleeds
into some things that are legitimate.

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I mean, this is always the problem
with everybody draws their line in a

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different place, but it, it bleeds into
criticisms of Israel, particularly the

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Gaza War, and also some of the tropes
on the left about, uh, you know, a

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global elite or a 1% or billionaires.

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And some of those are
perfectly legitimate.

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And then some of those go into
Rothschild's, uh, you know, Luminarty,

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protocols of the elders of Zionist
control government, and then it

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gets closer, you know, and closer
closer to overt, rank antisemitism.

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So I think that that is, you know,
there has been an evolution in where

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you would imagine the prejudice would
come and for the right, as you say,

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and the, the, the people who are now
to be afraid of are, are Muslims.

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And you will hear all these tropes
about a Muslim invasion of Europe,

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you know, these idea of kind of
armies of rapists overtaking us.

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And so the kind of polls of,
of the kind of, the racism have

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switched.

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the far right are very keen

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on Israel now.

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Um, so, alongside the St. George flags,
you had demonstrations where there

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was St. Georgia, oh, and the state

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of Israel.

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that's a long way for British
fascism to move, which has

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been, you know, pretty solidly
anti-Semitic right the way through.

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Now it isn't.

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Tommy Robinson was invited
over to Israel, wasn't he?

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by, I think the President's office,
which is, is an extraordinary

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kind of fusion, uh, uh, of people.

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But there's another thing I've noticing
that's really interesting is the sort

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of

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bandwagoning, uh, by the right onto this
antisemitism and blame that all on Mus-

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Muslim, um, communities as well, uh,
which goes along with the, you know,

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they are being made the scapegoat for
absolutely everything by, by the right.

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But the, the idea that anti-Semitism in
this country has somehow been imported

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in on the small boats and, uh, and, and
it, it's another migrant, it's a migrant

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community who are, who are, who are
completely to blame, blame for that as

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well, which is sort of equally inaccurate.

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I mean,

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Keir

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I know is trying to make
the point at the moment

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that this is,

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this is itself evidently a massive
problem for society and it's something

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that we should all be ashamed of.

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Uh, and to, kind of move it on into just
trying to scapegoat someone else seems to

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be as useless a, a, a reaction to it as,

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as, as

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any other, really.

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Right.

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Now, I wasn't on the podcast last
time, so can I just check, is this all

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just an attempt by you three to have
another go at poor old Zach Pilanski

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who is doing his best under very
trying circumstances to offer hope and

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change-

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Dammit.

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he spotted us.

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just facing this sort of sneering cynicism
from the media, is that- Well, okay.

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okay.

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So, uh, just to give you a glimpse
behind the scenes, while you were away,

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um, probably doing actually something
actively green rather than, uh the

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stuff the green party's more into

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these days.

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Um, we got criticized by Zach
Polanski for not understanding

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the appeal of the greens.

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Uh, and Ian stands indicted of the
crime of saying, they don't seem to

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talk about environmentalism very much.

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They are more a lefttering populist party.

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And I, I know.

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And I remember this as the, as I live
in Lewischm, which is a contest between

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labor and the greens, as the green
leaflet, big picture of Zach Polanski on

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the front, dropped through my letterbox.

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Can you guess how many times
environmentalism was mentioned

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in that leaflet, Andy?

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I'm going to say double figures at least.

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You're gonna say none because it was none.

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It was about their populist
economic proposals of 15 pound

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minimum wage, for example.

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and the way that Zach Polanski
phrased this in his interview

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with the times essentially, well,
paraphrased by decorating them

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for him, was everyone knows that
they're in favor of green issues.

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That's fi- that's sort
of taken as a given.

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Right.

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So actually they're gonna talk
about cost of living issues instead.

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of the things I found quite unpleasant was
the fact that, um, Rachel Millward, the

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green, the other green deputy leader apart
from Mothin Ali was on question time.

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Um, she was asked about the gold
as green stabbing in the rise

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of 97ism, and she attributed it
to the cost of living crisis.

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And I think that is ... Yeah,

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I know.

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Another random scape artist.

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But that wasn't yeah- How so?

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But, but it's basically like
asterities made a lot of people

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feel, you know, very angry.

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And what struck me about that is that is
a mirror image of things you will hear

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from reform supporters who say essentially
it's very hard not to be racist these

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days because, you know, all these people
coming home and taking our jobs, right?

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And that in both cases, there is
this idea that economic insecurity

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is kind of gives people a sign off
essentially for finding a scapegoat.

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And I was quite surprised to hear
that the, the green, you know, party

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deputy leaders signing off that
something that they would attack

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very heavily when the right use that

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same, Yeah.

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same language.

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Can I just say at this

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point, I would like

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to be

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unpopular on

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all fronts.

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Uh,

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uh, and

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say that, um,

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there is classically a,

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a, problem with Islamism and antisemitism.

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I made a documentary about anti-

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semitic,

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precedents and

240
00:09:08,959 --> 00:09:09,589
ended up,

241
00:09:09,589 --> 00:09:09,709
you

242
00:09:09,709 --> 00:09:13,364
know, witnessing the Cairo Book Fair,
and this is a couple of years ago, where

243
00:09:13,364 --> 00:09:14,984
they're actively selling Mind Camp.

244
00:09:15,364 --> 00:09:18,634
and, uh, a lot of cartoonists
in Arab newspapers

245
00:09:18,724 --> 00:09:20,704
literally would not get published anywhere

246
00:09:20,704 --> 00:09:23,914
else um, on the grounds
of antisemitic tropes.

247
00:09:24,064 --> 00:09:24,454
So,

248
00:09:24,589 --> 00:09:25,789
we can't ignore it.

249
00:09:25,997 --> 00:09:27,107
and I think it is,

250
00:09:27,197 --> 00:09:27,887
it is worth,

251
00:09:28,177 --> 00:09:28,807
saying that

252
00:09:28,897 --> 00:09:33,367
the eye has tried, which is
usually a, a failed policy, um,

253
00:09:33,547 --> 00:09:34,207
of saying,

254
00:09:34,337 --> 00:09:34,517
We

255
00:09:34,517 --> 00:09:34,697
are

256
00:09:34,697 --> 00:09:39,654
against, um, Israel's behavior in Gaza
but we're not very keen on antisemitism."

257
00:09:40,218 --> 00:09:44,508
after our Gaza cover, there was nothing
but, um, letters saying, you know,

258
00:09:44,508 --> 00:09:47,028
the eye is absolutely anti-Semitic.

259
00:09:47,598 --> 00:09:52,368
Despite, um, the number of literally
every issue we write about anti-Semitism

260
00:09:52,368 --> 00:09:58,068
online, um, Elon Musk, uh, all of those
things, but we do run pieces saying,

261
00:09:58,073 --> 00:09:59,728
guess what's happening in the West Bank?

262
00:09:59,788 --> 00:10:00,868
It's not great.

263
00:10:01,108 --> 00:10:02,608
Dr. Grimm runs those pieces.

264
00:10:02,698 --> 00:10:04,858
So attempting nuance,

265
00:10:05,338 --> 00:10:06,688
is unacceptable

266
00:10:07,138 --> 00:10:07,348
in

267
00:10:07,348 --> 00:10:08,338
the new bipolar

268
00:10:08,338 --> 00:10:08,878
world.

269
00:10:09,028 --> 00:10:12,508
Um, and that makes this issue even
worse because everyone deliberately,

270
00:10:12,718 --> 00:10:13,318
you say,

271
00:10:13,918 --> 00:10:16,528
you know, the, the borders
between the two get confused.

272
00:10:16,678 --> 00:10:19,588
I think they're deliberately
confused by people who want

273
00:10:19,588 --> 00:10:20,878
to play in that space.

274
00:10:20,967 --> 00:10:24,387
and you've had experience of this a
lot over the years because of the,

275
00:10:24,387 --> 00:10:25,767
the acid test of the letters page.

276
00:10:25,797 --> 00:10:25,947
Yes.

277
00:10:25,947 --> 00:10:28,257
You know, and whoever's complaining most.

278
00:10:28,257 --> 00:10:30,807
it, it's, and it's normally when
someone, someone is popular,

279
00:10:30,807 --> 00:10:33,327
someone is new, as Zach Polanski
undoubtedly is at the moment.

280
00:10:33,327 --> 00:10:36,027
Someone seems to be offering
something different before

281
00:10:36,027 --> 00:10:37,317
mass disillusionment has kicked

282
00:10:37,317 --> 00:10:37,527
in,

283
00:10:37,527 --> 00:10:42,507
as happens in every single political
career, it's part of the process, uh,

284
00:10:42,507 --> 00:10:44,847
you, you experience that in real time,

285
00:10:44,847 --> 00:10:45,177
you know?

286
00:10:45,481 --> 00:10:45,681
Yes.

287
00:10:45,821 --> 00:10:45,981
And,

288
00:10:46,167 --> 00:10:47,877
uh, people are furious

289
00:10:47,877 --> 00:10:48,687
and they write letters

290
00:10:48,687 --> 00:10:49,858
and, and, it

291
00:10:49,858 --> 00:10:50,878
used to be, um, the

292
00:10:50,878 --> 00:10:51,718
Scotts Nats.

293
00:10:51,748 --> 00:10:52,918
They would, they were easily the

294
00:10:52,918 --> 00:10:53,728
most prolific

295
00:10:53,818 --> 00:10:56,308
and bad tempered letter writers

296
00:10:56,428 --> 00:10:56,968
about any

297
00:10:56,968 --> 00:10:59,278
mention of Nicholas Sturgeon at all.

298
00:10:59,488 --> 00:11:04,378
Any suggestion that anything in Scotland
had gone wrong in any way was just,

299
00:11:04,378 --> 00:11:04,498
you

300
00:11:04,498 --> 00:11:04,648
know.

301
00:11:04,648 --> 00:11:05,008
Sassinat.

302
00:11:05,098 --> 00:11:07,678
act whinging, Um, and,

303
00:11:07,678 --> 00:11:09,208
you know, sort of, uh, what you

304
00:11:09,208 --> 00:11:10,168
want Boris then.

305
00:11:10,168 --> 00:11:10,228
Yeah.

306
00:11:10,539 --> 00:11:11,709
Yukip originally,

307
00:11:11,769 --> 00:11:13,479
you've never seen so many letters.

308
00:11:13,689 --> 00:11:15,752
Um, Tori's briefly,

309
00:11:15,752 --> 00:11:16,262
the Boris

310
00:11:16,262 --> 00:11:16,682
Cult,

311
00:11:16,832 --> 00:11:17,522
any mention of

312
00:11:17,522 --> 00:11:17,882
him-

313
00:11:18,062 --> 00:11:18,152
Wow.

314
00:11:18,157 --> 00:11:18,692
... particularly

315
00:11:18,692 --> 00:11:19,442
the overflowing

316
00:11:19,442 --> 00:11:21,032
laviatory suggesting that was his

317
00:11:21,032 --> 00:11:22,421
legacy, I think there

318
00:11:22,421 --> 00:11:22,751
was a

319
00:11:22,751 --> 00:11:24,611
staggering- number of

320
00:11:24,735 --> 00:11:24,835
right?

321
00:11:24,895 --> 00:11:26,291
That was the cover with a literal toilet

322
00:11:26,421 --> 00:11:28,391
I I wanted to complain about
that cover just on the grounds.

323
00:11:28,391 --> 00:11:29,495
it was so horrible.

324
00:11:29,595 --> 00:11:32,005
Yes, it was horrible.

325
00:11:32,351 --> 00:11:34,841
but the volume is, and
the greens are out now.

326
00:11:34,931 --> 00:11:35,111
Yeah.

327
00:11:35,171 --> 00:11:36,161
Um, they are

328
00:11:36,341 --> 00:11:36,911
very, very

329
00:11:36,911 --> 00:11:38,891
offended, um, by any christism

330
00:11:38,891 --> 00:11:39,611
of Zach and any

331
00:11:39,611 --> 00:11:40,631
christism of themselves.

332
00:11:40,721 --> 00:11:44,111
And I think it's when you
get this rush of popularity,

333
00:11:44,309 --> 00:11:48,719
it doesn't occur to you that the thing
that comes next is accountability-

334
00:11:49,019 --> 00:11:49,109
Yeah.

335
00:11:49,274 --> 00:11:49,439
um,

336
00:11:49,469 --> 00:11:51,029
because you might be in.

337
00:11:51,089 --> 00:11:55,169
And by the time I say this, he might well
be in charge of a party that's running

338
00:11:55,169 --> 00:11:56,275
a lot of councils.

339
00:11:56,656 --> 00:11:56,926
people

340
00:11:56,926 --> 00:12:00,443
are gonna ask you things, and if
they ask you things that you don't

341
00:12:00,443 --> 00:12:01,673
like or you don't particularly

342
00:12:01,673 --> 00:12:02,003
want to

343
00:12:02,003 --> 00:12:05,093
answer, that doesn't mean
they're mainstream media

344
00:12:05,093 --> 00:12:06,323
smear merchants.

345
00:12:06,683 --> 00:12:06,773
I

346
00:12:06,773 --> 00:12:07,073
mean, you've

347
00:12:07,073 --> 00:12:08,573
just got to get beyond that.

348
00:12:08,723 --> 00:12:10,004
Otherwise, you know,

349
00:12:10,004 --> 00:12:10,724
you end up

350
00:12:10,724 --> 00:12:13,214
saying, "I don't want journalism."

351
00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:16,019
I, I think about all the people
we've had in politics in my lifetime.

352
00:12:16,019 --> 00:12:18,419
There has been a real difference
between what you might call the

353
00:12:18,419 --> 00:12:20,399
populists and the, the mainstream.

354
00:12:20,699 --> 00:12:23,819
The mainstream just moan a lot
less about journalism, right?

355
00:12:23,879 --> 00:12:26,039
And that's one of the things that
is, uh, I think is very different

356
00:12:26,153 --> 00:12:26,489
about them.

357
00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:29,729
Well, there was a, there was a
very fun piece, uh, last week, I

358
00:12:29,729 --> 00:12:34,649
think in The Economist analyzing
35,000 likes by Zach Polanski on

359
00:12:34,649 --> 00:12:35,129
Blue Sky,

360
00:12:35,129 --> 00:12:36,869
which is his social
media platform of choice.

361
00:12:36,869 --> 00:12:36,929
I

362
00:12:36,929 --> 00:12:37,829
mean, he's, he's

363
00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:40,859
filming all the time, he's writing all
the time, and he's on it all the time,

364
00:12:40,859 --> 00:12:44,099
clearly, and he will like anything that
mentions him positively, and he will

365
00:12:44,099 --> 00:12:47,849
also like quite a lot of stuff that's
incredibly rude about anyone who's,

366
00:12:47,909 --> 00:12:49,559
who's been even slightly critical of him.

367
00:12:49,889 --> 00:12:49,979
Right.

368
00:12:50,009 --> 00:12:55,449
And it's just, I don't have time
to like 35,000 things on blue sky.

369
00:12:55,449 --> 00:12:58,569
I don't know how someone running
a major political party does.

370
00:12:58,818 --> 00:13:01,401
But that speaks to what he's very
good at, which is content creation.

371
00:13:01,401 --> 00:13:03,201
He's very, he, he's very visible.

372
00:13:03,381 --> 00:13:07,011
He turns up, he, you know, he,
he's pushing at his mesh- message.

373
00:13:07,011 --> 00:13:08,601
These are the things I
will give him credit for-

374
00:13:08,606 --> 00:13:08,727
mm-hmm.

375
00:13:09,131 --> 00:13:11,821
... 
is that that is part of the role of party
leading out, something that Keir Starmer

376
00:13:11,841 --> 00:13:14,721
is obviously failing at and terrible at.

377
00:13:14,751 --> 00:13:17,631
What does Keir Starmer think we're
going or how do you think we get there?

378
00:13:18,021 --> 00:13:19,461
Very hard to tell you now, even.

379
00:13:19,461 --> 00:13:21,081
Like he's just not
communicating those things.

380
00:13:21,401 --> 00:13:24,441
Zach Polanski is, I mean, I think
it's all completely different to what

381
00:13:24,441 --> 00:13:26,811
he believed 10 years ago and he's
never really accounted for how he's

382
00:13:26,811 --> 00:13:28,221
changed his mind, but we certainly

383
00:13:28,221 --> 00:13:30,411
know he's apologized To Jeremy Corbin.

384
00:13:31,371 --> 00:13:31,611
Hmm.

385
00:13:31,731 --> 00:13:33,861
the one thing that he's
apologized for is essentially,

386
00:13:33,891 --> 00:13:35,038
yeah, the Labor Party being too

387
00:13:35,068 --> 00:13:37,198
tough on And he was
fooled By the propaganda.

388
00:13:38,248 --> 00:13:38,938
What the Libdem

389
00:13:38,938 --> 00:13:39,628
propaganda-

390
00:13:40,558 --> 00:13:41,548
No, the Propaganda

391
00:13:41,548 --> 00:13:42,778
around Corbinism.

392
00:13:42,868 --> 00:13:42,988
Oh,

393
00:13:42,988 --> 00:13:43,378
I see.

394
00:13:43,378 --> 00:13:46,108
The idea that there was an anti-
any antisemitism in the Labor Party.

395
00:13:46,168 --> 00:13:47,188
Yeah, he's, that's the bit

396
00:13:47,218 --> 00:13:47,788
he's apologized

397
00:13:47,788 --> 00:13:47,938
for.

398
00:13:48,424 --> 00:13:49,378
for suggesting that might have been

399
00:13:49,378 --> 00:13:49,828
the case.

400
00:13:51,118 --> 00:13:51,388
Yeah.

401
00:13:52,138 --> 00:13:52,258
But

402
00:13:52,288 --> 00:13:52,438
on,

403
00:13:52,438 --> 00:13:53,578
Stick your fingers in the

404
00:13:53,578 --> 00:13:54,568
socket, go on.

405
00:13:54,688 --> 00:13:56,758
gonna stick my feet in the socket
because, because one of the things

406
00:13:56,758 --> 00:13:59,218
that has been really interesting
with the Greens that they were very

407
00:13:59,218 --> 00:14:02,578
good at, at expelling people for was
expelling gender critical feminists.

408
00:14:02,818 --> 00:14:06,118
So Shahar Ali, in fact, took the party
to court, um, he felt that they had

409
00:14:06,118 --> 00:14:07,858
discriminated against his lawful views.

410
00:14:08,218 --> 00:14:12,118
So I would say, yes, I would take the
fact that there has been a huge intake

411
00:14:12,118 --> 00:14:15,118
of new candidates and their vetting
has been, you know, delayed by that.

412
00:14:15,478 --> 00:14:19,318
However, I would say, is it also
reasonable to say you've had a very

413
00:14:19,318 --> 00:14:22,708
bright line about what views on sex and
gender, you were not perm- permitted

414
00:14:22,708 --> 00:14:26,128
in this, in this party, and as a
political party, that is your right.

415
00:14:26,128 --> 00:14:28,168
There's not an imposition
in free, of, of free speech.

416
00:14:28,168 --> 00:14:30,178
People can hold those views,
they just aren't compatible with

417
00:14:30,178 --> 00:14:31,408
being in the Green Party, sure.

418
00:14:31,858 --> 00:14:36,448
However, you are, I think, we're
more reluctant to do this on views

419
00:14:36,448 --> 00:14:38,638
about antisemitism, and I think
the rest of us are allowed to

420
00:14:38,638 --> 00:14:39,958
comment on that and disagree with

421
00:14:39,958 --> 00:14:40,798
it, actually.

422
00:14:40,978 --> 00:14:41,608
And when you talk

423
00:14:41,608 --> 00:14:41,818
about

424
00:14:41,818 --> 00:14:45,898
vetting, I mean, when Furage said, "I, I
don't have time to vet these candidates,"

425
00:14:45,898 --> 00:14:47,788
I thought, "Well, you could knock off

426
00:14:47,788 --> 00:14:48,478
two hours in the

427
00:14:48,478 --> 00:14:49,678
pub, um,

428
00:14:49,678 --> 00:14:49,918
and

429
00:14:49,918 --> 00:14:50,888
read the list." Um,

430
00:14:51,118 --> 00:14:51,628
Um,

431
00:14:51,898 --> 00:14:52,048
and

432
00:14:52,048 --> 00:14:54,478
He's got spare time now, he's not
doing his cameo videos anymore.

433
00:14:54,478 --> 00:14:54,538
Yeah.

434
00:14:54,538 --> 00:14:56,658
He he could get up at five o'clock in
the morning and do a bit of vetting

435
00:14:56,698 --> 00:14:56,848
that, yeah.

436
00:14:56,878 --> 00:14:57,508
And the same with

437
00:14:57,508 --> 00:14:58,528
Zach, rather

438
00:14:58,528 --> 00:14:59,308
than dress up in

439
00:14:59,308 --> 00:15:04,778
green clothes and pose for the Sunday
time green, photo shoot, you could

440
00:15:04,778 --> 00:15:06,548
have had a coffee and looked over the

441
00:15:06,548 --> 00:15:07,088
list.

442
00:15:07,208 --> 00:15:07,808
See, here's an idea.

443
00:15:07,808 --> 00:15:09,758
Ollie Robbins is looking for
a job at the moment, isn't he?

444
00:15:09,758 --> 00:15:11,348
He's, he's got some experience
of vetting that could

445
00:15:11,348 --> 00:15:11,468
get

446
00:15:11,498 --> 00:15:11,618
him

447
00:15:11,618 --> 00:15:11,798
in.

448
00:15:13,448 --> 00:15:13,778
Before

449
00:15:13,778 --> 00:15:17,258
we move on from this bit, we should
say just a, a little bit about

450
00:15:17,528 --> 00:15:21,878
exactly why Nigel Farach has been
able to afford to give up doing

451
00:15:21,878 --> 00:15:24,398
videos on cameo for 75 quit a time.

452
00:15:24,398 --> 00:15:24,728
Hmm.

453
00:15:24,878 --> 00:15:25,298
Um- It's

454
00:15:25,298 --> 00:15:25,688
because he's on

455
00:15:25,688 --> 00:15:26,588
celebrity traitors.

456
00:15:27,158 --> 00:15:27,458
It's

457
00:15:29,078 --> 00:15:29,408
He's the

458
00:15:29,408 --> 00:15:29,558
only

459
00:15:29,558 --> 00:15:29,918
person who

460
00:15:29,948 --> 00:15:30,248
isn't.

461
00:15:32,018 --> 00:15:32,318
Which,

462
00:15:32,348 --> 00:15:37,028
which is the, the last week we've learned
that he received in 2024, uh, a gift of

463
00:15:37,028 --> 00:15:43,148
five million pounds, uh, which was not
taxed from Christopher Harbourne, who is

464
00:15:43,148 --> 00:15:46,328
a, a Thai based crypto businessman- Yeah.

465
00:15:46,438 --> 00:15:48,408
and I believe billionaire.

466
00:15:48,918 --> 00:15:51,768
Uh, I did a little calculation,
just in case you're interested,

467
00:15:51,828 --> 00:15:59,808
uh, Keir Starmer could bought, uh,
2,000 pairs of nice glasses- ... Uh,

468
00:15:59,868 --> 00:16:02,748
and still not come up to the level-

469
00:16:02,778 --> 00:16:04,218
You Surely mean Wahidali

470
00:16:04,218 --> 00:16:05,868
could've bought that many pairs of

471
00:16:05,896 --> 00:16:06,916
glasses, for Kistarma.

472
00:16:06,976 --> 00:16:07,116
Sorry.

473
00:16:07,176 --> 00:16:07,216
He

474
00:16:07,218 --> 00:16:07,248
He

475
00:16:07,248 --> 00:16:08,208
fact- In

476
00:16:08,208 --> 00:16:11,628
fact, that is the total
in the whole glasses gate.

477
00:16:11,628 --> 00:16:13,218
It was, it was, it was many, many more

478
00:16:13,218 --> 00:16:15,198
pairs of glasses than that you could get.

479
00:16:15,618 --> 00:16:18,528
This does not seem to have attracted
the attention that I think it ought to.

480
00:16:18,558 --> 00:16:21,528
Um, Faros got in very
early with a, a defense.

481
00:16:21,588 --> 00:16:23,598
Uh, you, you know exactly how
that happened in the Ellen.

482
00:16:23,628 --> 00:16:26,808
Well, so the, uh, the Guardian who
had this story, credit to them,

483
00:16:26,898 --> 00:16:28,968
um, went to them for comment on it.

484
00:16:29,036 --> 00:16:29,156
Yeah.

485
00:16:29,216 --> 00:16:33,528
Uh, and the, according to the guardian,
the reform press office stalled

486
00:16:33,528 --> 00:16:34,818
them and said we need more time.

487
00:16:34,818 --> 00:16:37,218
Then they said, "Oh, you've directed it
to the wrong press officer actually."

488
00:16:37,458 --> 00:16:41,718
And in the meantime, a, uh, a very
sympathetic piece, I think my Gordon

489
00:16:41,718 --> 00:16:44,568
Rainer in the telegraph appeared
with the headline, I was firebombed,

490
00:16:45,138 --> 00:16:46,968
and this was lots and lots about- B-

491
00:16:47,118 --> 00:16:47,658
by Farish.

492
00:16:47,718 --> 00:16:49,638
By, about, by Nigel
Faraj being firebombed.

493
00:16:49,878 --> 00:16:53,238
And this was lots and lots about Nigel
Farage's security issues with then very

494
00:16:53,238 --> 00:16:56,988
long way down going, and in order to
resolve these security issues, I accepted

495
00:16:57,528 --> 00:16:57,858
this

496
00:16:57,858 --> 00:16:58,218
gift.

497
00:16:58,338 --> 00:16:59,928
One problem with that, I think you, you

498
00:16:59,958 --> 00:17:00,288
spotted

499
00:17:00,288 --> 00:17:01,188
the problem, didn't you, Andy?

500
00:17:01,188 --> 00:17:04,818
Yes, it's a timeline thing, which is
that the, the fire, the firebombing,

501
00:17:04,818 --> 00:17:10,638
the, um, attempted arson attack on, on
Furose's home, which we we don't need to

502
00:17:10,638 --> 00:17:15,198
say, probably should say is deplorable,
shouldn't happen in- a- in any way.

503
00:17:15,198 --> 00:17:16,128
Yeah, we're all against it.

504
00:17:16,548 --> 00:17:20,748
That happened, uh, one year after
Farah accepted a, a five million

505
00:17:20,748 --> 00:17:24,678
pound donation, which is apparently
something to do with his security.

506
00:17:24,768 --> 00:17:28,848
So either Christopher Harbourn is a
psychic- or crypto really is so good

507
00:17:28,848 --> 00:17:31,758
that it can predict something that's
gonna happen in a year's time, or

508
00:17:31,758 --> 00:17:33,228
that actually doesn't really stack up.

509
00:17:33,498 --> 00:17:35,928
And it was also a gift made
when Ferrari was not an MP.

510
00:17:35,928 --> 00:17:37,998
So they are saying, look,
this is completely irrelevant

511
00:17:38,188 --> 00:17:39,358
to Mr. Ferrata's political

512
00:17:39,358 --> 00:17:39,718
career,

513
00:17:39,958 --> 00:17:42,778
But I love this, this is always the
argument with donations that aren't

514
00:17:42,778 --> 00:17:45,358
declared, isn't it, is that technically
it didn't have to be declared.

515
00:17:45,358 --> 00:17:47,608
And in this case, the excuse is- it
was the point where he said he was

516
00:17:47,608 --> 00:17:49,828
never coming back as reform leader
and he was done now and Richard

517
00:17:49,828 --> 00:17:50,908
Tyson was gonna take over.

518
00:17:51,238 --> 00:17:54,058
Uh, and it's just so clearly, I
mean, to, to use a parliamentary

519
00:17:54,058 --> 00:17:55,438
term, complete bollocks, isn't it?

520
00:17:55,468 --> 00:17:58,408
Because if, if you're in hock to someone
for five million pounds, if someone is

521
00:17:58,408 --> 00:18:01,828
giving you farming, clearly, on principle,
that is something you need, if there is a

522
00:18:01,828 --> 00:18:04,468
register of interest, that is an interest.

523
00:18:04,588 --> 00:18:07,138
I mean, this is the same argument that,
that our old friend Peter Manilson

524
00:18:07,138 --> 00:18:10,078
made, first resignation time around,
when he said he didn't think it was

525
00:18:10,078 --> 00:18:14,758
relevant that, that, that, that he
owed 373,000 pounds to another cabinet

526
00:18:14,758 --> 00:18:16,888
minister at that point- because he'd
been, he'd been lent it by Jeffrey

527
00:18:16,888 --> 00:18:18,268
Robinson to buy a house in Notting Hill.

528
00:18:18,388 --> 00:18:19,288
Clearly- Yeah.

529
00:18:19,288 --> 00:18:20,998
... it's a relevant interest.

530
00:18:20,998 --> 00:18:24,328
You don't have to, you don't need to kind
of pass it and go into accountancy terms

531
00:18:24,358 --> 00:18:24,418
of

532
00:18:24,418 --> 00:18:25,438
exact technicality.

533
00:18:25,528 --> 00:18:29,068
And if it comes a few months before you
announce not only that you're, you're

534
00:18:29,068 --> 00:18:31,708
going back into frontline politics
and also that you think this crypto

535
00:18:31,708 --> 00:18:33,268
stuff is fantastic and there should be

536
00:18:33,268 --> 00:18:34,078
much lower taxes

537
00:18:34,078 --> 00:18:35,338
on crypto transactions.

538
00:18:35,458 --> 00:18:39,628
And later on, Farough has said
that he's invested nearly 300

539
00:18:39,628 --> 00:18:41,458
grand in a company that buy

540
00:18:41,488 --> 00:18:42,628
and hold Bitcoin.

541
00:18:43,258 --> 00:18:43,588
Yes.

542
00:18:43,588 --> 00:18:44,708
You're suggesting that two and

543
00:18:44,708 --> 00:18:44,978
two

544
00:18:44,978 --> 00:18:45,908
equal four.

545
00:18:46,028 --> 00:18:46,628
Yeah, I am.

546
00:18:46,628 --> 00:18:47,828
Which I'm sure in crypto world

547
00:18:47,828 --> 00:18:49,328
is not true due to something clever,

548
00:18:49,328 --> 00:18:49,538
but

549
00:18:49,538 --> 00:18:49,658
they

550
00:18:49,658 --> 00:18:49,838
do.

551
00:18:49,868 --> 00:18:50,048
Yeah.

552
00:18:50,287 --> 00:18:53,438
And I love Nigel Frozer's phrase that he's
never a- Cristo Harborne has never asked

553
00:18:53,468 --> 00:18:53,948
me or anything.

554
00:18:54,548 --> 00:18:57,758
He gave you five million pounds personally
and 17 million pounds to the party.

555
00:18:57,818 --> 00:18:59,978
He doesn't need to ask you.

556
00:18:59,978 --> 00:19:00,228
You know

557
00:19:00,248 --> 00:19:00,268
You know

558
00:19:00,288 --> 00:19:00,298
You

559
00:19:00,308 --> 00:19:01,088
what you're doing then,

560
00:19:01,548 --> 00:19:01,988
You know what

561
00:19:02,018 --> 00:19:02,138
you do in that

562
00:19:02,228 --> 00:19:02,588
in that way.

563
00:19:02,588 --> 00:19:06,038
And also they is the, obviously
the amusing irony that the

564
00:19:06,038 --> 00:19:07,538
leader of a party that complains

565
00:19:07,568 --> 00:19:08,618
about foreign people

566
00:19:08,888 --> 00:19:11,048
having influence over British

567
00:19:11,048 --> 00:19:11,768
politics

568
00:19:11,978 --> 00:19:13,028
is now,

569
00:19:13,118 --> 00:19:14,768
you know, the largest recipient

570
00:19:14,768 --> 00:19:14,948
of

571
00:19:15,128 --> 00:19:15,998
the largest amount

572
00:19:15,998 --> 00:19:16,868
of money ever,

573
00:19:16,958 --> 00:19:17,708
um- Yeah.

574
00:19:17,768 --> 00:19:19,718
by someone who's resident in Thailand.

575
00:19:19,898 --> 00:19:21,218
He probably loves Thailand,

576
00:19:21,278 --> 00:19:21,908
um, but he's

577
00:19:21,908 --> 00:19:22,598
also there

578
00:19:22,821 --> 00:19:23,558
in order to run a

579
00:19:23,558 --> 00:19:25,688
business there without all the encumbrance

580
00:19:25,898 --> 00:19:26,468
of British

581
00:19:26,468 --> 00:19:27,608
tax and British

582
00:19:27,758 --> 00:19:28,628
regulation,

583
00:19:28,778 --> 00:19:30,428
which again, doesn't

584
00:19:30,428 --> 00:19:31,628
seem hugely

585
00:19:31,628 --> 00:19:32,468
patriotic.

586
00:19:33,008 --> 00:19:36,008
Yeah, I think Nigel Farage is
recreating the worst bits of MAGA.

587
00:19:36,526 --> 00:19:39,576
the involvement in crypto, which
is just a deeply scammy industry.

588
00:19:39,666 --> 00:19:42,786
I, I would say any serious politician
really should stay away from it.

589
00:19:43,026 --> 00:19:44,706
And they should stay away
from prediction markets.

590
00:19:44,706 --> 00:19:47,196
They should say, you know, just that,
they should stay away from gambling.

591
00:19:47,196 --> 00:19:47,886
Like it's all of

592
00:19:47,886 --> 00:19:49,176
And organized crime.

593
00:19:49,176 --> 00:19:50,976
And those sort of things, I, I would say.

594
00:19:51,186 --> 00:19:53,646
a sex ring, all of these things I
would, I would recommend that they

595
00:19:53,646 --> 00:19:56,496
often turn to shade into dodgy
business and I'm against them.

596
00:19:56,826 --> 00:19:57,546
But, um-

597
00:19:57,726 --> 00:19:58,326
You're so

598
00:19:58,386 --> 00:19:58,746
radical.

599
00:19:58,926 --> 00:19:59,626
I know, right?

600
00:20:00,036 --> 00:20:00,816
I'm so right wing.

601
00:20:01,056 --> 00:20:04,926
Um, but the thing, the other thing
is that Zia Yousef announced, um,

602
00:20:04,986 --> 00:20:08,256
on Bank Holiday Monday, this, he, he
essentially this sort of like weird

603
00:20:08,256 --> 00:20:12,186
prisoners dilemma where he said,
"We're going to do mass deportations.

604
00:20:12,186 --> 00:20:15,096
We're going to build migrant hotels
and we're going to put them in places

605
00:20:15,096 --> 00:20:16,386
that vote green to punish them.

606
00:20:16,566 --> 00:20:18,216
So if you don't want
one in your place, vote

607
00:20:18,216 --> 00:20:18,726
reform."

608
00:20:19,506 --> 00:20:22,086
This literally comes with a website
as well where you can put in your,

609
00:20:22,206 --> 00:20:25,086
um, postcode and it will tell you
where your, it looks like you're

610
00:20:25,086 --> 00:20:27,696
going to vote reform, so you won't be
getting one or it looks like people

611
00:20:27,696 --> 00:20:28,926
are going to get green in your area.

612
00:20:28,986 --> 00:20:30,906
You will be getting it on your doorstep.

613
00:20:30,906 --> 00:20:34,026
I mean, it's, it's the ... I can't
think of another situation in an

614
00:20:34,026 --> 00:20:37,266
election where there's been a sort of
outright threat with menaces like that.

615
00:20:37,266 --> 00:20:37,326
Yeah.

616
00:20:37,356 --> 00:20:37,686
Can you?

617
00:20:37,686 --> 00:20:39,306
I mean, there's the usual sort of bribery

618
00:20:39,306 --> 00:20:39,606
and kind

619
00:20:39,606 --> 00:20:41,256
of we will cut your taxes
and that kind of thing.

620
00:20:41,406 --> 00:20:44,796
But an absolute, if your area
goes the wrong way, then you're

621
00:20:44,886 --> 00:20:45,546
trouble, Yeah.

622
00:20:45,936 --> 00:20:48,156
If you vote green, you're going
to get more potholes and we're

623
00:20:48,156 --> 00:20:49,507
going to cause them, you know.

624
00:20:49,536 --> 00:20:50,826
But they think it's very clever, right?

625
00:20:50,826 --> 00:20:53,616
They think it's a trap that the left
has walked into, which is like, oh,

626
00:20:53,616 --> 00:20:55,206
I see, you don't like migrant hotels.

627
00:20:55,206 --> 00:20:56,856
I thought you thought
refugees were welcome.

628
00:20:57,126 --> 00:21:00,576
Now that is very true of a, a tiny subset
of the Green Party who do believe in

629
00:21:00,576 --> 00:21:03,546
completely open borders, but actually
there's a lot of people voting green for

630
00:21:03,546 --> 00:21:07,536
a lot of other reasons, including cost
of living and economic reasons, but who,

631
00:21:07,536 --> 00:21:08,646
who, you know, who don't feel like that.

632
00:21:08,826 --> 00:21:10,416
But this again, I think is the MAGA trap.

633
00:21:10,746 --> 00:21:15,426
Donald Trump, no squish on immigration,
has pulled back from pulling crying

634
00:21:15,426 --> 00:21:16,896
children out of the streets, right?

635
00:21:16,896 --> 00:21:19,986
Like just bundling people into
cars, bundling them off to El

636
00:21:19,986 --> 00:21:23,796
Salvador or wherever it might be
because actually it looked cruel and

637
00:21:23,796 --> 00:21:25,686
unpleasant and people didn't like it.

638
00:21:25,716 --> 00:21:29,556
Even his supporters were not, you
know, Steven Miller gung ho about

639
00:21:29,556 --> 00:21:32,376
it as effective chief of staff, um,
or his effective prime minister.

640
00:21:32,706 --> 00:21:34,416
But, but mostly this was not a

641
00:21:34,416 --> 00:21:36,426
popular place- And he
sacked the person in charge.

642
00:21:36,436 --> 00:21:40,726
And Greg Bevino, who was swaggering
around in a very richy coat, I would say,

643
00:21:41,086 --> 00:21:42,946
uh, got, yeah, got his marching orders.

644
00:21:43,246 --> 00:21:44,296
So, you know, this just

645
00:21:44,326 --> 00:21:44,627
... 
I,

646
00:21:45,607 --> 00:21:46,336
I, I, I think this is,

647
00:21:46,396 --> 00:21:48,916
this is a ... I think that was a
really unpleasant announcement.

648
00:21:48,916 --> 00:21:50,386
Obviously there's a million
ways in which it didn't work.

649
00:21:50,386 --> 00:21:52,696
You know, the places that Greens
are gonna win will be inner cities.

650
00:21:52,696 --> 00:21:55,726
If you think you can build anything
in most places that elect greens.

651
00:21:55,846 --> 00:21:58,996
Also, if there's one thing that unites
every part of the political spectrum in

652
00:21:58,996 --> 00:21:59,266
Britain,

653
00:21:59,266 --> 00:21:59,416
it's

654
00:21:59,446 --> 00:22:00,016
NIMBYism.

655
00:22:00,488 --> 00:22:01,448
Right.

656
00:22:01,606 --> 00:22:04,096
people just hate anything
being built in Britain.

657
00:22:04,096 --> 00:22:04,996
Like, good luck with that.

658
00:22:05,296 --> 00:22:08,806
But it was also, it was just,
it was just an odd, punitive,

659
00:22:09,473 --> 00:22:09,683
guess

660
00:22:09,773 --> 00:22:11,393
say, like a sort of punishment beating

661
00:22:11,393 --> 00:22:11,723
for not

662
00:22:11,723 --> 00:22:12,563
voting for us.

663
00:22:12,563 --> 00:22:14,513
And in a way that I think you're
right, crossed a line that I

664
00:22:14,513 --> 00:22:15,503
hadn't seen cross before in

665
00:22:15,503 --> 00:22:15,893
British policy.

666
00:22:15,893 --> 00:22:17,123
And there is a long tradition

667
00:22:17,123 --> 00:22:18,503
in, in British politics of,

668
00:22:18,503 --> 00:22:20,243
of telling the voters
you're going to give them

669
00:22:20,243 --> 00:22:20,903
free money.

670
00:22:21,233 --> 00:22:23,375
Um, Hogarth Onwards, you know, our,

671
00:22:23,483 --> 00:22:24,983
our satirical tradition

672
00:22:24,983 --> 00:22:25,493
is rich

673
00:22:25,493 --> 00:22:26,933
with just politicians saying,

674
00:22:26,933 --> 00:22:27,503
"Would you like

675
00:22:27,503 --> 00:22:27,983
something,

676
00:22:28,313 --> 00:22:28,613
um,

677
00:22:28,673 --> 00:22:29,363
I'll give it to

678
00:22:29,363 --> 00:22:29,513
you.

679
00:22:29,753 --> 00:22:29,843
They

680
00:22:29,843 --> 00:22:30,683
don't usually

681
00:22:30,683 --> 00:22:31,613
say, "Vote

682
00:22:31,613 --> 00:22:31,763
for

683
00:22:31,763 --> 00:22:32,693
me or else." Yeah.

684
00:22:33,653 --> 00:22:34,703
That, that's different.

685
00:22:37,182 --> 00:22:37,482
right.

686
00:22:37,512 --> 00:22:42,612
Now, uh, we come on to the state of the
media and there's been a report about

687
00:22:42,612 --> 00:22:47,442
the, uh, the Press Freedom Index, which
is a global, uh, report about how free

688
00:22:47,442 --> 00:22:49,092
the press is in all sorts of countries.

689
00:22:49,302 --> 00:22:53,922
Normally, you're used to seeing it if
you do see it in the context of a lot

690
00:22:53,922 --> 00:22:55,722
more people banged up in Uzbekistan

691
00:22:55,722 --> 00:22:56,262
this year,

692
00:22:56,622 --> 00:23:00,642
uh, journalist, I mean, but obviously,
Adam, it also features the UK.

693
00:23:00,642 --> 00:23:00,732
Yes.

694
00:23:00,762 --> 00:23:01,602
Because the UK is part

695
00:23:01,602 --> 00:23:01,662
of

696
00:23:01,692 --> 00:23:01,752
the

697
00:23:01,752 --> 00:23:02,352
global community.

698
00:23:02,472 --> 00:23:02,716
It is.

699
00:23:02,802 --> 00:23:06,042
It is one of the 180 countries, uh,
that were recorded in this report,

700
00:23:06,312 --> 00:23:09,766
uh, the World Press Freedom Index,
uh, which is issued by reporters Son

701
00:23:09,792 --> 00:23:12,522
Frontier, which older reasons will
remember is the international version of,

702
00:23:12,582 --> 00:23:12,792
um,

703
00:23:12,792 --> 00:23:13,392
It's a knockout,

704
00:23:13,932 --> 00:23:15,402
uh, one for the kids there.

705
00:23:15,672 --> 00:23:17,622
Um, and obviously there was an awful lot.

706
00:23:17,622 --> 00:23:19,992
I mean, generally it was,
it, it was a bad view.

707
00:23:20,052 --> 00:23:24,014
Um, it was, the lowest average score
they've ever recorded across the

708
00:23:24,014 --> 00:23:25,514
globe in terms of press freedom.

709
00:23:25,814 --> 00:23:29,008
Um, a lot of that was down to,
um, journalists being killed in

710
00:23:29,008 --> 00:23:31,558
various, uh, uh, conflict zones
and other places around the world.

711
00:23:31,918 --> 00:23:35,008
220 journalists more than that now,
I think killed in Gaza by Israeli

712
00:23:35,008 --> 00:23:38,248
forces, um, a lot in Sudan and
South Sudan as well, they noted.

713
00:23:38,518 --> 00:23:41,458
Um, but I thought, um, because
we're very, very parochial, uh, we

714
00:23:41,458 --> 00:23:43,678
are UK based, we could have a look
at what they said about the UK.

715
00:23:43,678 --> 00:23:45,028
Now the UK fell two places.

716
00:23:45,268 --> 00:23:48,028
Uh, it's still recorded as
satisfactory rather than good.

717
00:23:48,418 --> 00:23:51,898
It's the 18th most free press in the
world, according to reporters on Frontier,

718
00:23:51,928 --> 00:23:52,168
which not

719
00:23:52,168 --> 00:23:52,468
bad.

720
00:23:52,528 --> 00:23:55,768
That doesn't be, sorry, coming
in 18th and it's still not good.

721
00:23:56,398 --> 00:23:57,358
Satisfactory.

722
00:23:57,448 --> 00:23:57,508
Do

723
00:23:57,508 --> 00:23:58,108
you want to know who's good?

724
00:23:58,858 --> 00:23:59,398
I can tell you.

725
00:23:59,518 --> 00:24:02,038
Norway, Sweden, Finland,
Scandinavia doing fantastically.

726
00:24:02,098 --> 00:24:06,658
Uh, Ireland, very good, uh, Estonia
and, uh, and the Netherlands were the

727
00:24:06,658 --> 00:24:08,218
one, the ones who were graded as good,

728
00:24:08,308 --> 00:24:08,428
but

729
00:24:08,428 --> 00:24:08,578
we

730
00:24:08,578 --> 00:24:08,848
came in

731
00:24:08,848 --> 00:24:09,898
just as satisfactory.

732
00:24:09,898 --> 00:24:10,078
Is there

733
00:24:10,078 --> 00:24:10,678
anywhere graded

734
00:24:10,678 --> 00:24:11,488
outstanding?

735
00:24:11,878 --> 00:24:12,598
There is not.

736
00:24:13,018 --> 00:24:13,918
It's not like Ofsted.

737
00:24:13,978 --> 00:24:14,158
No.

738
00:24:14,158 --> 00:24:15,208
I just want to, I'm just testing the

739
00:24:15,238 --> 00:24:16,258
ratings Good

740
00:24:16,288 --> 00:24:16,828
is as good

741
00:24:16,828 --> 00:24:16,978
as

742
00:24:16,978 --> 00:24:17,098
it

743
00:24:17,098 --> 00:24:17,248
can

744
00:24:17,248 --> 00:24:17,638
get.

745
00:24:17,848 --> 00:24:18,298
Okay.

746
00:24:18,298 --> 00:24:19,198
So satisfactory

747
00:24:19,198 --> 00:24:19,738
is, is-

748
00:24:19,738 --> 00:24:20,068
is

749
00:24:20,278 --> 00:24:20,668
is pretty good.

750
00:24:20,673 --> 00:24:21,328
It's satisfactory.

751
00:24:21,388 --> 00:24:21,658
good.

752
00:24:21,723 --> 00:24:22,003
pretty good.

753
00:24:23,158 --> 00:24:23,428
So

754
00:24:23,428 --> 00:24:24,958
why, so we flipped, did you say we

755
00:24:24,958 --> 00:24:25,648
slipped a couple of runs?

756
00:24:25,678 --> 00:24:27,088
Slipped a couple of rungs, yep, yep, yep.

757
00:24:27,148 --> 00:24:30,718
Uh, not as, not doing as badly as the US
which has full fallen seven places, uh,

758
00:24:30,718 --> 00:24:34,208
specifically because of Donald Trump and
his, uh, his kind of, uh, maga movements,

759
00:24:34,238 --> 00:24:35,438
uh, constant attacks on the media.

760
00:24:35,678 --> 00:24:38,378
But the specific reasons they gave
for the, uh, the, the UK deteriorating

761
00:24:38,378 --> 00:24:39,338
slightly all the problems with the,

762
00:24:39,338 --> 00:24:39,608
uh,

763
00:24:39,638 --> 00:24:40,178
with the UK.

764
00:24:40,778 --> 00:24:43,748
One of them very specific, um, attacks
on exiled Iranian journalists who are

765
00:24:43,748 --> 00:24:46,898
broadcasting from over here and threats
to their family- uh, back families back

766
00:24:46,898 --> 00:24:51,227
in Iran to try and stop them, um, putting
out what the, uh, anti-regime, news.

767
00:24:51,377 --> 00:24:55,586
Um, uh, but they also noted, uh, a few
other things, uh, the rise in online

768
00:24:55,586 --> 00:24:59,426
abuse of journalists, um, and, uh, the
government's failure to act as promised

769
00:24:59,426 --> 00:25:03,176
on slaps, which of course are strategic
lawsuits against public participation,

770
00:25:03,176 --> 00:25:04,616
which, uh, any Eye reader will know.

771
00:25:04,616 --> 00:25:06,746
We've, we've covered in
great detail along the way.

772
00:25:06,746 --> 00:25:11,246
So we, we've we've gone in specifically
on, um, Muhammada Mersi's, uh,

773
00:25:11,246 --> 00:25:16,496
extraordinary range of, uh, legal threats
against, um, Charlotte Leslie, uh, the

774
00:25:16,496 --> 00:25:20,276
formatory MP, uh, uh, who he pursued
through the courts, as I say, in, in, in

775
00:25:20,276 --> 00:25:24,326
several different ways over several years,
uh, for having Tamarity to put a memo out

776
00:25:24,326 --> 00:25:26,696
to 11 people containing some information

777
00:25:26,726 --> 00:25:27,206
about him.

778
00:25:27,626 --> 00:25:27,716
Right.

779
00:25:27,716 --> 00:25:28,586
Uh- So those

780
00:25:28,586 --> 00:25:30,356
are generally rich people shutting down

781
00:25:30,356 --> 00:25:30,956
journalists

782
00:25:31,046 --> 00:25:31,356
through the courts.

783
00:25:31,692 --> 00:25:32,966
In a lot of cases, yeah, yeah, yeah.

784
00:25:32,996 --> 00:25:35,216
Another one was Tom Burgess, who was
actually the journalist doing the

785
00:25:35,216 --> 00:25:38,036
Guardian last week, uh, exposed the
Christoph Harbourne uh, donation to

786
00:25:38,036 --> 00:25:39,176
Nigel Faraj, you mentioned earlier.

787
00:25:39,386 --> 00:25:41,576
Uh, but he put a b- a
book called Kleptopia.

788
00:25:41,906 --> 00:25:44,666
Uh, this case was thrown out as
wholly flawed by the judge in

789
00:25:44,666 --> 00:25:47,306
the end, but it was brought by a
Kazakhstan based mining company.

790
00:25:47,726 --> 00:25:49,916
Uh, so, you know, these are the sort
of, you know, it's people with a

791
00:25:49,916 --> 00:25:52,526
lot of money behind them who really
don't want any of their activities

792
00:25:52,556 --> 00:25:53,186
written about.

793
00:25:53,186 --> 00:25:53,936
So- Okay.

794
00:25:53,996 --> 00:25:55,316
There have been lots and lots of those.

795
00:25:55,316 --> 00:25:58,226
Now, the government did promise, um,
ahead of the election that this was

796
00:25:58,226 --> 00:26:00,416
gonna be one of their priorities,
that they were gonna bring in

797
00:26:00,416 --> 00:26:01,946
legislation to stop this kind of thing.

798
00:26:02,006 --> 00:26:05,906
Uh, there was a kind of phalanx of media
lawyers, the society of media law, lawyers

799
00:26:06,086 --> 00:26:09,746
was created, which is lots of people from,
uh, firms that uh, I readers will know and

800
00:26:09,746 --> 00:26:12,806
love like Shillings and uh, Carter Ruck.

801
00:26:12,866 --> 00:26:13,946
Yep, I'll get it right.

802
00:26:14,036 --> 00:26:16,676
Uh, and various others who said
this is absolute nonsense and this

803
00:26:16,676 --> 00:26:20,996
would be terrible, um, a terrible,
terrible thing to, uh, restrict our,

804
00:26:20,996 --> 00:26:23,156
our, our client's right to, uh, legal

805
00:26:23,156 --> 00:26:23,996
representation.

806
00:26:24,656 --> 00:26:26,486
and their right to shut down journalism.

807
00:26:26,786 --> 00:26:27,116
Yes.

808
00:26:27,296 --> 00:26:31,166
Which, um, uh, if you are a very,
very rich person, it never seems

809
00:26:31,166 --> 00:26:33,236
to occur to you that, that, that

810
00:26:33,236 --> 00:26:33,836
isn't one of

811
00:26:33,836 --> 00:26:38,246
your fundamental human rights- ... That
any criticism of yourself should stop.

812
00:26:38,666 --> 00:26:42,056
Um, and there's always lawyers
who, who are prepared to do that.

813
00:26:42,326 --> 00:26:46,046
Um, but it did look as though this
battle was being won and there were

814
00:26:46,376 --> 00:26:50,096
brilliant books about, you know, um,
Russian autocrats that managed to

815
00:26:50,096 --> 00:26:55,736
survive, um, you know, really good work,
really good journalism, and suddenly

816
00:26:55,736 --> 00:26:57,446
we seem to be rowing backwards again.

817
00:26:57,446 --> 00:26:57,536
Right.

818
00:26:57,866 --> 00:27:02,306
Um, and the Labor government, which
I know, I shouldn't take seriously

819
00:27:02,306 --> 00:27:03,536
what they wrote in the manifesto.

820
00:27:03,746 --> 00:27:07,226
It's silly of me, but I
think I believe they might do

821
00:27:07,226 --> 00:27:07,646
this.

822
00:27:08,246 --> 00:27:08,666
Yes.

823
00:27:08,846 --> 00:27:11,906
And they still say that they will
do at some point, but unfortunately

824
00:27:11,906 --> 00:27:14,606
what's happened is that they've, uh,
put in a working party which involves

825
00:27:14,606 --> 00:27:17,936
a lot of these same media lawyers
who are lobbying very, very hard, uh,

826
00:27:17,946 --> 00:27:21,396
against it and, um, it's sort of got
kicked into the long grass as being

827
00:27:21,606 --> 00:27:22,986
something that's a bit difficult.

828
00:27:22,986 --> 00:27:24,966
I would say it was one of the
most popular things they could

829
00:27:24,966 --> 00:27:27,666
possibly do if they want, wanna
curry favor with newspaper editors.

830
00:27:28,446 --> 00:27:30,696
Um, it's, it's, it's
a slam dunk, this one,

831
00:27:30,696 --> 00:27:30,996
isn't it?

832
00:27:31,056 --> 00:27:34,326
And boo foreigners, you know,
it goes down pretty well.

833
00:27:34,716 --> 00:27:36,846
I mean, why, why not extend it to rich

834
00:27:36,846 --> 00:27:37,146
foreigners?

835
00:27:37,176 --> 00:27:37,416
Yes.

836
00:27:37,416 --> 00:27:38,076
Who is pro-

837
00:27:38,076 --> 00:27:39,066
Kasak billionaire?

838
00:27:39,066 --> 00:27:39,426
What is the

839
00:27:40,056 --> 00:27:40,986
for that in Britain?

840
00:27:41,196 --> 00:27:41,676
Quite small.

841
00:27:41,766 --> 00:27:43,266
The other thing, Adam,
I wonder if it came up.

842
00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:46,686
Um, I was judging the poor foot awards
this year and really great entries as

843
00:27:46,686 --> 00:27:48,576
ever, um, and we'll see you who wins.

844
00:27:48,966 --> 00:27:51,276
But one of the things that struck me
again was that particularly with the, the

845
00:27:51,276 --> 00:27:54,846
local papers, the regional press, there's
been some brilliant diversification onto

846
00:27:54,846 --> 00:27:58,729
Substack, um, and the, you know, these
sort of small startups, but it is still,

847
00:27:58,806 --> 00:28:01,079
people are on shoestring resources.

848
00:28:01,168 --> 00:28:02,999
That absolutely was one of the
other things that came up in this,

849
00:28:03,149 --> 00:28:05,969
in this report, uh, in, in, in,
in, in the press freedom interest.

850
00:28:06,179 --> 00:28:09,089
Uh, they said the budgetary pressures have
left many outlets forced to close their

851
00:28:09,089 --> 00:28:11,109
newsrooms or drastically reduce staff.

852
00:28:11,469 --> 00:28:12,909
Um, and at the same time,
you're absolutely right.

853
00:28:12,909 --> 00:28:15,639
There are these sort of independent,
um, uh, uh, outlets which are coming out

854
00:28:15,639 --> 00:28:18,669
and still doing fantastic journalism, a
lot which is, is recognized every year

855
00:28:18,669 --> 00:28:19,749
in, in the foot awards, as you say.

856
00:28:19,989 --> 00:28:23,192
I Um, so Mill Media, who is one of these,
uh, independent outlets who are doing

857
00:28:23,192 --> 00:28:25,622
a lot of very, very good journalism,
faced down all sorts of legal threats.

858
00:28:25,622 --> 00:28:30,122
Most recently in the last week, uh, they,
uh, had a threat from, um, uh, a spad

859
00:28:30,122 --> 00:28:33,422
to Shabana Mamood, the home secretary
over a story they were doing about

860
00:28:33,422 --> 00:28:35,732
her, which were very definitely in the
public interest, threatening them with

861
00:28:35,732 --> 00:28:39,152
an injunction on the grounds of libel,
which, um, if you know anything about law,

862
00:28:39,152 --> 00:28:41,192
that's, that's, that's not how it works.

863
00:28:41,192 --> 00:28:44,402
Libel, the very principle is absolutely
there published and be damned.

864
00:28:44,402 --> 00:28:45,482
So uh, story went ahead

865
00:28:45,512 --> 00:28:45,794
anyway

866
00:28:45,794 --> 00:28:47,782
It stops people following
up the story, right?

867
00:28:47,782 --> 00:28:50,062
That's, that's the reason I always
think for those legal threats.

868
00:28:50,272 --> 00:28:53,362
If it's someone small, does a story,
they get this heavy handed legal

869
00:28:53,362 --> 00:28:56,782
response and everyone else who
might follow it up then like backs

870
00:28:56,791 --> 00:28:59,572
off a little Well, there is an
absolutely classic method which we've

871
00:28:59,572 --> 00:29:02,152
seen millions and millions of times
with stories that we run in the Rotten

872
00:29:02,152 --> 00:29:05,992
Burris column, which then local papers
try to follow up, uh, and are told

873
00:29:05,992 --> 00:29:08,752
by, you know, the press office or for
the council concerned or, or wherever.

874
00:29:08,752 --> 00:29:10,432
"Oh yes, no, that was very
inaccurate and we're taking

875
00:29:10,432 --> 00:29:11,482
legal action against private eye.

876
00:29:11,692 --> 00:29:12,982
And "Occasionally they
will phone up, phone us

877
00:29:13,012 --> 00:29:13,732
up and say," Are they?

878
00:29:13,762 --> 00:29:16,072
And I said," No, we haven't heard
a dicky bird from them at all.

879
00:29:16,072 --> 00:29:17,302
"But that, that threat is- enough.

880
00:29:17,473 --> 00:29:17,923
Um, can

881
00:29:17,923 --> 00:29:22,573
I just ask, Adam, the press freedom,
uh, people, do they have anything to say

882
00:29:22,573 --> 00:29:22,753
about

883
00:29:22,753 --> 00:29:23,833
who owns the telegraph?

884
00:29:24,463 --> 00:29:24,823
I just, I've

885
00:29:24,823 --> 00:29:24,943
been

886
00:29:24,943 --> 00:29:25,123
so

887
00:29:25,123 --> 00:29:25,423
worried

888
00:29:25,423 --> 00:29:25,723
about

889
00:29:25,723 --> 00:29:25,873
it.

890
00:29:26,473 --> 00:29:26,713
They

891
00:29:26,774 --> 00:29:27,114
did.

892
00:29:28,154 --> 00:29:28,474
Did they?

893
00:29:28,693 --> 00:29:31,783
They ... Well, no, what they did
point out was that one of the problems

894
00:29:31,783 --> 00:29:34,543
with the UK media, as far as they're
concerned, is that there are just

895
00:29:34,543 --> 00:29:38,593
three companies who dominate the market
who are of course News UK, Reach,

896
00:29:38,913 --> 00:29:40,653
and the Daily Mellon General Trust.

897
00:29:40,803 --> 00:29:43,833
Now, actually, that would have been even
more of an issue because it looked for

898
00:29:43,833 --> 00:29:47,103
awhile like the D, uh, DMGT were gonna
take over the, uh, telegraph as well.

899
00:29:47,433 --> 00:29:51,033
But in fact, we have now pl- more
plurality in the UK media, so we're gonna

900
00:29:51,033 --> 00:29:54,903
go up the 2027 index, presumably, because
Axel Springer have come in from Germany

901
00:29:55,203 --> 00:29:56,763
and, uh, and taken over the telegraph.

902
00:29:56,763 --> 00:29:57,423
So yes,

903
00:29:57,524 --> 00:29:57,604
it

904
00:29:57,644 --> 00:29:58,704
was in there.

905
00:29:58,713 --> 00:29:58,893
So

906
00:29:58,893 --> 00:29:59,103
this

907
00:29:59,103 --> 00:29:59,280
is a

908
00:29:59,283 --> 00:29:59,493
win

909
00:29:59,493 --> 00:29:59,793
for Press

910
00:29:59,793 --> 00:30:00,123
Freedom.

911
00:30:00,352 --> 00:30:00,392
Pr-

912
00:30:00,431 --> 00:30:01,091
Pr- press

913
00:30:01,151 --> 00:30:01,721
diversity.

914
00:30:02,231 --> 00:30:02,621
Mm.

915
00:30:02,711 --> 00:30:02,831
Ah,

916
00:30:02,831 --> 00:30:03,191
Ah, yes,

917
00:30:03,191 --> 00:30:03,491
okay.

918
00:30:03,612 --> 00:30:03,732
Yeah,

919
00:30:03,737 --> 00:30:04,961
yeah, Slightly different thing.

920
00:30:05,049 --> 00:30:08,079
every time you said Axel Spring,
my brain has supplied Axel Foley,

921
00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:08,529
of course, the

922
00:30:08,529 --> 00:30:08,979
protagonist

923
00:30:09,009 --> 00:30:09,069
of

924
00:30:09,069 --> 00:30:09,519
Beverly Hills.

925
00:30:10,419 --> 00:30:11,739
who I'm choosing to believe that Eddie

926
00:30:11,739 --> 00:30:12,609
Murphy has taken

927
00:30:12,609 --> 00:30:12,999
over

928
00:30:13,299 --> 00:30:13,419
the

929
00:30:13,419 --> 00:30:14,049
telegraph.

930
00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:14,469
That would

931
00:30:14,469 --> 00:30:15,639
be- Much more

932
00:30:15,639 --> 00:30:16,209
entertaining.

933
00:30:16,209 --> 00:30:16,479
wouldn't

934
00:30:16,479 --> 00:30:16,599
it,

935
00:30:16,689 --> 00:30:17,019
Yeah.

936
00:30:17,109 --> 00:30:19,759
Oh, that's interesting because another
thing we haven't mentioned is the

937
00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:22,249
BBC have just announced this huge cut

938
00:30:22,249 --> 00:30:23,629
of their own headcount, I mean,

939
00:30:23,629 --> 00:30:28,909
2,000 people losing their jobs about
a 10th of the overall workforce

940
00:30:28,909 --> 00:30:31,519
there, that's, that's going to
have a substantial effect as well.

941
00:30:31,524 --> 00:30:31,580
Yeah.

942
00:30:31,639 --> 00:30:32,629
You know, there, there are going to be a

943
00:30:32,629 --> 00:30:32,929
lot of,

944
00:30:33,349 --> 00:30:35,329
lot of journalists on the jobs market,

945
00:30:35,329 --> 00:30:35,869
basically.

946
00:30:36,289 --> 00:30:37,309
And there's no

947
00:30:37,459 --> 00:30:40,519
clear rationale for, for why
these journalists have been

948
00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:43,039
suddenly culled- Um, during an

949
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,259
interim between director generals, and

950
00:30:45,259 --> 00:30:45,739
it may just

951
00:30:45,739 --> 00:30:46,549
be convenience,

952
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:46,759
but,

953
00:30:46,999 --> 00:30:48,319
uh, there was no warning,

954
00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:51,079
there was no build up,
there was no narrative,

955
00:30:51,379 --> 00:30:52,099
it was just,

956
00:30:52,219 --> 00:30:53,449
yeah, we need the money now.

957
00:30:53,745 --> 00:30:54,045
we're not

958
00:30:54,045 --> 00:30:55,365
going to salami slice, which

959
00:30:55,365 --> 00:30:57,135
is the traditional BBC,

960
00:30:57,225 --> 00:30:57,405
uh,

961
00:30:57,497 --> 00:30:58,725
range, we're just going to cut.

962
00:30:59,374 --> 00:31:00,154
only thing offered

963
00:31:00,154 --> 00:31:00,424
was,

964
00:31:00,424 --> 00:31:00,634
well,

965
00:31:00,634 --> 00:31:00,904
with,

966
00:31:01,294 --> 00:31:02,494
uh, the license fee,

967
00:31:02,494 --> 00:31:03,814
we're, you know, no one's

968
00:31:03,814 --> 00:31:04,954
paying it, we're not collecting

969
00:31:04,954 --> 00:31:06,394
it, right?

970
00:31:06,544 --> 00:31:06,784
I mean,

971
00:31:06,784 --> 00:31:07,744
there is a remedy for

972
00:31:07,804 --> 00:31:08,224
that.

973
00:31:08,908 --> 00:31:10,198
I mean, I get it.

974
00:31:10,528 --> 00:31:11,398
Um, attempting to

975
00:31:11,398 --> 00:31:11,968
lock up

976
00:31:11,968 --> 00:31:13,483
very, very poor people for not

977
00:31:13,483 --> 00:31:13,858
paying their

978
00:31:13,858 --> 00:31:15,298
license fee doesn't

979
00:31:15,298 --> 00:31:15,988
look good,

980
00:31:16,138 --> 00:31:17,458
but arguing

981
00:31:18,268 --> 00:31:20,458
um, as the government, uh, that, um,

982
00:31:20,638 --> 00:31:21,448
you have put

983
00:31:21,448 --> 00:31:22,048
this license

984
00:31:22,048 --> 00:31:22,588
fee in place

985
00:31:22,588 --> 00:31:24,208
because you believe it is worth it.

986
00:31:24,298 --> 00:31:24,958
Might be worth

987
00:31:24,958 --> 00:31:25,228
trying.

988
00:31:25,468 --> 00:31:25,678
Right.

989
00:31:25,768 --> 00:31:26,098
Do you know what?

990
00:31:26,098 --> 00:31:27,628
I've never felt more pro- BC than

991
00:31:27,628 --> 00:31:29,728
I don't know if I've mentioned any,
but I've just been to the Galapagos.

992
00:31:30,178 --> 00:31:30,658
Um,

993
00:31:30,808 --> 00:31:31,258
sorry.

994
00:31:31,579 --> 00:31:34,134
once again, I think that, yeah,
the BBC did loads of stuff I don't

995
00:31:34,134 --> 00:31:38,814
agree with, but actually no one
is doing work of that quality

996
00:31:38,814 --> 00:31:38,994
...and

997
00:31:38,994 --> 00:31:39,324
so

998
00:31:39,324 --> 00:31:39,954
much of it.

999
00:31:40,307 --> 00:31:44,154
And on, on, on the international,
uh, spectrum as well, you know,

1000
00:31:44,184 --> 00:31:47,724
there are now Starlink terminals
being smuggled into Iran so that

1001
00:31:47,724 --> 00:31:49,704
people can get the BBC World Service

1002
00:31:49,704 --> 00:31:51,414
and the BBC Persian service

1003
00:31:51,834 --> 00:31:54,234
because they are reaching a huge
number of the adult population.

1004
00:31:54,234 --> 00:31:58,374
And I think it's something that all
of the BBC's trials and tribulations

1005
00:31:58,374 --> 00:32:03,324
here don't really reflect is, is what
the BBC is still managing to do around

1006
00:32:03,324 --> 00:32:03,414
the

1007
00:32:03,414 --> 00:32:03,684
world.

1008
00:32:03,904 --> 00:32:04,114
So

1009
00:32:04,114 --> 00:32:04,444
I went

1010
00:32:04,444 --> 00:32:04,564
to

1011
00:32:04,564 --> 00:32:05,644
an event organized by

1012
00:32:05,644 --> 00:32:06,184
Hostage

1013
00:32:06,184 --> 00:32:09,784
International, which, um,
uh, offers support to the

1014
00:32:09,784 --> 00:32:10,594
families of those

1015
00:32:10,594 --> 00:32:11,584
who've been kidnapped

1016
00:32:11,584 --> 00:32:14,704
and, and tries to sort of,
um, make their life better

1017
00:32:14,794 --> 00:32:15,574
in whatever they can

1018
00:32:15,574 --> 00:32:17,014
do and offer help and advice.

1019
00:32:17,014 --> 00:32:18,955
And, this event was about the kidnapping

1020
00:32:18,955 --> 00:32:19,345
of John

1021
00:32:19,345 --> 00:32:20,455
McCarthy, who was very

1022
00:32:20,455 --> 00:32:22,885
famously, um, kidnapped by

1023
00:32:23,245 --> 00:32:24,565
an Iran backed

1024
00:32:24,565 --> 00:32:26,785
group, um, in the Middle East,

1025
00:32:26,845 --> 00:32:28,015
and he

1026
00:32:28,075 --> 00:32:29,455
spent five years as

1027
00:32:29,455 --> 00:32:30,535
a hostage, but he was

1028
00:32:30,535 --> 00:32:30,985
talking.

1029
00:32:31,105 --> 00:32:31,585
And

1030
00:32:31,855 --> 00:32:33,535
the number of references

1031
00:32:33,535 --> 00:32:34,075
to the world

1032
00:32:34,075 --> 00:32:34,765
service,

1033
00:32:34,885 --> 00:32:36,505
um, involved in his

1034
00:32:36,505 --> 00:32:38,917
account and the other's account,
should have made everyone in the

1035
00:32:38,917 --> 00:32:44,107
audience ashamed, um, both for the
hostages, you know, um, they denied

1036
00:32:44,107 --> 00:32:45,157
them radios when the,

1037
00:32:45,427 --> 00:32:47,107
the Americans got a radio,

1038
00:32:47,423 --> 00:32:50,273
John heard his friend
talking about him the

1039
00:32:50,273 --> 00:32:51,833
first time in two years he had proof that

1040
00:32:51,833 --> 00:32:53,303
anyone cared that he

1041
00:32:53,303 --> 00:32:55,313
was still alive, but the effect on,

1042
00:32:55,583 --> 00:32:57,053
uh, the warders,

1043
00:32:57,113 --> 00:32:58,103
the jailers,

1044
00:32:58,193 --> 00:32:58,583
uh,

1045
00:32:58,613 --> 00:32:59,303
the other people

1046
00:32:59,303 --> 00:32:59,743
in the region

1047
00:32:59,843 --> 00:33:00,443
listening,

1048
00:33:00,623 --> 00:33:00,833
the

1049
00:33:00,833 --> 00:33:02,603
idea that, the BBC World

1050
00:33:02,603 --> 00:33:03,563
Service is some,

1051
00:33:04,013 --> 00:33:04,253
um,

1052
00:33:04,283 --> 00:33:04,973
embarrassment.

1053
00:33:04,973 --> 00:33:05,243
I mean,

1054
00:33:05,843 --> 00:33:07,103
we've got aircraft carriers

1055
00:33:07,103 --> 00:33:07,583
that don't

1056
00:33:07,583 --> 00:33:08,076
work.

1057
00:33:08,393 --> 00:33:09,863
Um, we've got, uh, a

1058
00:33:09,863 --> 00:33:10,253
soft

1059
00:33:10,253 --> 00:33:10,973
power radio

1060
00:33:10,973 --> 00:33:12,353
station that works

1061
00:33:12,353 --> 00:33:13,343
unbelievably well.

1062
00:33:13,343 --> 00:33:14,243
We're gonna cut that.

1063
00:33:14,573 --> 00:33:14,873
I mean,

1064
00:33:14,903 --> 00:33:15,113
it's

1065
00:33:16,277 --> 00:33:16,828
extraordinary.

1066
00:33:16,977 --> 00:33:17,077
And

1067
00:33:17,093 --> 00:33:18,833
very noticeably, that has
been noticed elsewhere.

1068
00:33:18,833 --> 00:33:22,493
So what floods interfill the gap is,
as you, you know, it is Russia today,

1069
00:33:22,793 --> 00:33:26,393
it's Sputnik, it's those things that
come to directly Kremlin front funded

1070
00:33:26,393 --> 00:33:30,113
propaganda outlets and, you know,
China has sim- similar operations of

1071
00:33:30,113 --> 00:33:31,523
kind of news going around worldwide.

1072
00:33:31,523 --> 00:33:32,693
So with the World Service

1073
00:33:32,693 --> 00:33:33,143
being cut back

1074
00:33:33,143 --> 00:33:37,253
here, Trump cutting funding for, for NPR
and the Voice of America and all those

1075
00:33:37,253 --> 00:33:38,393
kind of things, you know, this stuff

1076
00:33:38,393 --> 00:33:38,603
does

1077
00:33:38,603 --> 00:33:38,993
matter.

1078
00:33:39,113 --> 00:33:41,003
Yeah, tough times for all
the people who've been funded

1079
00:33:41,003 --> 00:33:42,293
by Victor Orban in Hungary.

1080
00:33:42,323 --> 00:33:45,293
Like the, the people on the, on
the, on the right very well aware

1081
00:33:45,293 --> 00:33:48,473
that it is a good idea to fund
friendly media organizations.

1082
00:33:48,473 --> 00:33:48,533
Yeah.

1083
00:33:48,833 --> 00:33:51,533
And then maybe, yeah, Britain should
say, "Well, we've got some values of

1084
00:33:51,533 --> 00:33:55,373
our own actually, and one of them is
obj- this idea of objectivity, which

1085
00:33:55,373 --> 00:33:57,143
we aim for, maybe we should fund that.

1086
00:33:57,143 --> 00:33:58,673
" Anyway, here concludes

1087
00:33:58,673 --> 00:33:59,003
the

1088
00:33:59,483 --> 00:34:01,883
party political broadcast
in favor of the BBC.

1089
00:34:02,143 --> 00:34:05,759
Is, is there any particularly, uh, uh,
good journalism that, that, that could be

1090
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:09,119
highlighted at the moment, for instance,
by looking at the, uh, at a long list on

1091
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:09,419
the,

1092
00:34:09,419 --> 00:34:09,659
uh,

1093
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:10,557
private eye website?

1094
00:34:10,557 --> 00:34:11,691
Will we be redoing our,

1095
00:34:11,691 --> 00:34:11,961
our

1096
00:34:11,991 --> 00:34:12,291
very

1097
00:34:12,291 --> 00:34:13,251
successful series of little

1098
00:34:13,251 --> 00:34:14,581
interviews with people?

1099
00:34:14,581 --> 00:34:15,007
Yes, Yes.

1100
00:34:15,171 --> 00:34:17,841
once the shortlist is out, I'm going to
be, uh, interviewing the shortlist and

1101
00:34:17,901 --> 00:34:18,171
you'll

1102
00:34:18,171 --> 00:34:18,531
hear it

1103
00:34:18,531 --> 00:34:18,771
on

1104
00:34:18,771 --> 00:34:18,921
this

1105
00:34:18,921 --> 00:34:19,311
podcast

1106
00:34:19,311 --> 00:34:19,611
channel.

1107
00:34:19,791 --> 00:34:20,091
Great.

1108
00:34:20,311 --> 00:34:22,801
I'm hearing a lot of pro-
journalist propaganda

1109
00:34:22,831 --> 00:34:23,101
here.

1110
00:34:23,251 --> 00:34:23,641
Yeah.

1111
00:34:23,671 --> 00:34:23,761
I

1112
00:34:23,761 --> 00:34:23,971
love

1113
00:34:24,001 --> 00:34:24,151
it.

1114
00:34:24,451 --> 00:34:24,721
I know.

1115
00:34:24,721 --> 00:34:25,231
Read Street of

1116
00:34:25,231 --> 00:34:25,441
shame

1117
00:34:25,441 --> 00:34:25,651
next

1118
00:34:25,651 --> 00:34:25,861
issue

1119
00:34:25,861 --> 00:34:26,071
to find

1120
00:34:26,071 --> 00:34:26,251
out how

1121
00:34:26,251 --> 00:34:26,671
awful

1122
00:34:26,671 --> 00:34:26,821
they

1123
00:34:26,821 --> 00:34:27,241
all are.

1124
00:34:27,241 --> 00:34:27,601
as well.

1125
00:34:30,249 --> 00:34:33,759
now, having been so nice
about journalists- We're

1126
00:34:33,759 --> 00:34:34,749
going to be nice about you.

1127
00:34:34,754 --> 00:34:35,169
No, no.

1128
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:35,859
Oh,

1129
00:34:36,066 --> 00:34:36,106
no.

1130
00:34:36,166 --> 00:34:36,699
We're going to be nice

1131
00:34:36,759 --> 00:34:36,879
about

1132
00:34:36,879 --> 00:34:37,779
parliamentarians, aren't we?

1133
00:34:37,779 --> 00:34:37,959
We've,

1134
00:34:38,170 --> 00:34:40,119
yeah, I just thought it would be worth

1135
00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:43,800
doing a little, section
about, one of the bits of the

1136
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,140
British political system that works

1137
00:34:46,292 --> 00:34:47,312
Which bit is that, Andy?

1138
00:34:47,492 --> 00:34:47,762
It's-

1139
00:34:48,542 --> 00:34:48,662
The

1140
00:34:48,692 --> 00:34:49,352
canteen.

1141
00:34:49,490 --> 00:34:49,570
team.

1142
00:34:49,650 --> 00:34:49,750
Is

1143
00:34:49,755 --> 00:34:49,922
it

1144
00:34:50,012 --> 00:34:50,312
cross

1145
00:34:50,312 --> 00:34:50,702
charging

1146
00:34:50,762 --> 00:34:51,572
pavement solutions?

1147
00:34:51,992 --> 00:34:53,162
Don't even get me started.

1148
00:34:53,162 --> 00:34:55,832
I go away on holiday for one week and
the government makes a big announcement

1149
00:34:55,832 --> 00:34:58,742
saying, "We're going to make this
a permitted thing and look out for

1150
00:34:58,742 --> 00:35:01,870
legislation coming later in the
year. I'm gutted." I hear they call

1151
00:35:01,870 --> 00:35:01,970
law.

1152
00:35:02,030 --> 00:35:02,160
Andy's law.

1153
00:35:03,992 --> 00:35:04,322
It is a

1154
00:35:04,322 --> 00:35:04,652
win

1155
00:35:04,652 --> 00:35:05,492
though, Andy, isn't it?

1156
00:35:05,702 --> 00:35:08,162
It's ... Well, let's ... I'm
not going to get too excited.

1157
00:35:08,162 --> 00:35:10,742
I'm keeping, I'm keeping
the, um, the carver on

1158
00:35:10,742 --> 00:35:11,222
ice,

1159
00:35:11,222 --> 00:35:12,422
but- Yeah, because if this

1160
00:35:12,422 --> 00:35:13,592
government promises it's going

1161
00:35:13,592 --> 00:35:14,072
to happen,

1162
00:35:14,732 --> 00:35:15,092
boom,

1163
00:35:15,302 --> 00:35:15,482
Yeah.

1164
00:35:15,482 --> 00:35:15,542
it

1165
00:35:15,542 --> 00:35:15,962
happens.

1166
00:35:15,992 --> 00:35:16,682
Exactly.

1167
00:35:17,732 --> 00:35:17,912
And

1168
00:35:17,912 --> 00:35:18,032
then

1169
00:35:18,092 --> 00:35:18,812
there's a quick

1170
00:35:18,812 --> 00:35:19,322
U-turn

1171
00:35:20,132 --> 00:35:21,992
at the end of the cul-de-sac and
they come right back the other way,

1172
00:35:22,322 --> 00:35:23,582
look, it looks like it might happen.

1173
00:35:23,582 --> 00:35:24,332
That's not what I wanted

1174
00:35:24,332 --> 00:35:24,932
to talk about,

1175
00:35:25,112 --> 00:35:29,132
but the bit that has been working
and I think is worth highlighting is

1176
00:35:29,132 --> 00:35:32,972
something I've been, um, trying to go
along and, and look at, which is the,

1177
00:35:32,972 --> 00:35:34,652
um, the transport select committee.

1178
00:35:34,952 --> 00:35:38,312
So for those listening who don't
know, there are all sorts of

1179
00:35:38,312 --> 00:35:41,282
select committees on, on major
issues in British public life.

1180
00:35:41,522 --> 00:35:46,862
They're made up of MPs whose job is
to run investigations, look at the

1181
00:35:46,862 --> 00:35:50,282
issues that are, is their particular
patch and eventually come up with

1182
00:35:50,282 --> 00:35:51,962
a report and, and recommendations.

1183
00:35:51,992 --> 00:35:55,532
So I've been going to the transport
select committee, they have, uh, one of

1184
00:35:55,532 --> 00:35:59,852
their running investigations is called
supercharging the electric vehicle

1185
00:35:59,852 --> 00:36:03,182
transition about is it working, is it not?

1186
00:36:03,182 --> 00:36:06,782
So they, they take evidence and
it just, for anyone whose normal

1187
00:36:06,782 --> 00:36:10,532
experience of politics is seeing the
occasional snippet of Prime Minister's

1188
00:36:10,592 --> 00:36:11,342
questions,

1189
00:36:11,401 --> 00:36:17,432
it, it it is a completely different side
of the experience and, and so much more,

1190
00:36:17,912 --> 00:36:19,622
uh, interesting and constructive, you

1191
00:36:19,721 --> 00:36:19,801
know?

1192
00:36:19,801 --> 00:36:20,162
Oh, I love

1193
00:36:20,162 --> 00:36:20,552
a select

1194
00:36:20,552 --> 00:36:21,002
committee.

1195
00:36:21,002 --> 00:36:21,062
Yeah.

1196
00:36:21,152 --> 00:36:23,012
I mean, do you remember some
of the great select committees

1197
00:36:23,012 --> 00:36:24,332
around the time of, um, the

1198
00:36:24,332 --> 00:36:25,082
phone hacking,

1199
00:36:25,262 --> 00:36:25,862
for example?

1200
00:36:25,862 --> 00:36:25,922
Yeah.

1201
00:36:25,922 --> 00:36:27,002
They were behigrama.

1202
00:36:27,272 --> 00:36:29,942
Um, Margaret Hodge used to do, I think
the public accounts committee- Yes.

1203
00:36:30,031 --> 00:36:33,141
... one of the, one of the ones that
scrutinizes finance and it was- That's a

1204
00:36:33,161 --> 00:36:35,072
big, yeah, it was incendiary sometimes.

1205
00:36:35,102 --> 00:36:35,162
Yeah.

1206
00:36:35,162 --> 00:36:38,612
And what you tend to do is, yeah,
okay, so there are some idiots who

1207
00:36:38,612 --> 00:36:40,982
just sign up to them for whatever
reason because they want to grandstand.

1208
00:36:40,982 --> 00:36:44,672
And there is a bit of, this isn't so
much a common, a question as a comment,

1209
00:36:44,702 --> 00:36:46,172
which is the plague of public life.

1210
00:36:46,352 --> 00:36:46,472
Yeah.

1211
00:36:46,472 --> 00:36:49,982
But normally you get MPs who are genuinely
enthused and interested and knowledgeable

1212
00:36:49,982 --> 00:36:53,222
about a topic and they're getting
in front of them people who are also

1213
00:36:53,222 --> 00:36:53,852
enthused and

1214
00:36:53,852 --> 00:36:55,271
interested and knowledgeable
about the topic.

1215
00:36:55,271 --> 00:36:55,412
This is it.

1216
00:36:55,712 --> 00:36:59,462
And the, the thing I found really
interesting is the difference between

1217
00:36:59,712 --> 00:37:03,642
the bit where it's the committee of
MPs interviewing just sort of subject

1218
00:37:03,642 --> 00:37:06,252
experts.You might get someone from
a big charging company or you might

1219
00:37:06,252 --> 00:37:07,482
get someone from a local council and

1220
00:37:07,482 --> 00:37:07,812
say, like, "What,

1221
00:37:08,532 --> 00:37:10,602
what are you concerned
about or what's going well?"

1222
00:37:11,022 --> 00:37:14,082
And then the political bit, because
on the, in the last session, you

1223
00:37:14,082 --> 00:37:19,752
had, uh, the minister responsible
who's, uh, Kia Mather and Pete who

1224
00:37:19,752 --> 00:37:21,132
that, you might recognize that name.

1225
00:37:21,191 --> 00:37:21,622
He's wild, Yes.

1226
00:37:22,032 --> 00:37:23,112
He's 28.

1227
00:37:23,232 --> 00:37:24,542
I mean, it's amazing like- He's not 12.

1228
00:37:24,912 --> 00:37:25,212
He's,

1229
00:37:25,602 --> 00:37:26,622
he's very young.

1230
00:37:26,922 --> 00:37:27,432
Um, he was

1231
00:37:27,432 --> 00:37:28,272
very impressive, you know-

1232
00:37:28,332 --> 00:37:29,322
but he chang his name to

1233
00:37:29,322 --> 00:37:29,562
Andy

1234
00:37:29,832 --> 00:37:30,432
soon, because he

1235
00:37:30,432 --> 00:37:30,852
obviously-

1236
00:37:31,782 --> 00:37:32,022
obviously,

1237
00:37:32,022 --> 00:37:32,292
it's gonna

1238
00:37:32,292 --> 00:37:34,122
be quite, you know- Yeah.

1239
00:37:34,212 --> 00:37:39,402
Um, but that, that slightly changed the,
the nature of Of it, but even then, I

1240
00:37:39,402 --> 00:37:43,152
mean, this committee is mostly labor
MPs because most MPs are labor MPs,

1241
00:37:43,546 --> 00:37:45,016
Well, select committees are, um,

1242
00:37:45,016 --> 00:37:45,026
the,

1243
00:37:45,256 --> 00:37:45,436
the

1244
00:37:45,436 --> 00:37:45,856
membership

1245
00:37:45,856 --> 00:37:46,796
is reflective of the- Yeah.

1246
00:37:46,846 --> 00:37:48,436
Yeah, it's- ...States the
parties in the house, isn't it?

1247
00:37:48,476 --> 00:37:49,906
It's reasonably proportional, you know.

1248
00:37:49,906 --> 00:37:53,266
There, there is a Tori, there, there were
a couple of Lib Dems on this committee,

1249
00:37:53,344 --> 00:37:53,494
But

1250
00:37:53,494 --> 00:37:58,694
the, the interesting thing was they,
they were not noticeably, kinder to him

1251
00:37:58,694 --> 00:38:00,764
because he was a minister in their party.

1252
00:38:00,764 --> 00:38:02,954
I mean, they, like some of the toughest

1253
00:38:03,014 --> 00:38:03,854
questions

1254
00:38:04,064 --> 00:38:07,364
about whether this thing is working
or not came from the other labor MPs

1255
00:38:07,364 --> 00:38:07,994
on the committee.

1256
00:38:08,145 --> 00:38:08,767
there wasn't

1257
00:38:08,857 --> 00:38:12,727
too much grandstanding or party
dicks, There were one or two, but

1258
00:38:13,117 --> 00:38:14,849
mostly it was very collaborative,

1259
00:38:15,838 --> 00:38:15,887
I

1260
00:38:15,887 --> 00:38:16,037
mean,

1261
00:38:16,037 --> 00:38:18,347
there are fun things about
it, like the first session I

1262
00:38:18,347 --> 00:38:18,827
went to,

1263
00:38:19,247 --> 00:38:22,547
10 minutes of it was completely
inaudible because, uh, Angela

1264
00:38:22,547 --> 00:38:23,687
Rippen was running a dance

1265
00:38:23,687 --> 00:38:24,797
class outside-

1266
00:38:25,207 --> 00:38:25,457
With

1267
00:38:25,787 --> 00:38:26,627
the speaker of the

1268
00:38:26,627 --> 00:38:27,197
house.

1269
00:38:27,407 --> 00:38:27,767
Oh yeah, I

1270
00:38:27,797 --> 00:38:27,947
saw

1271
00:38:27,947 --> 00:38:28,407
the pictures of

1272
00:38:28,488 --> 00:38:28,847
of that.

1273
00:38:28,847 --> 00:38:29,057
Yes,

1274
00:38:29,057 --> 00:38:29,387
pictures of that.

1275
00:38:29,392 --> 00:38:30,348
That was in PortColor's face.

1276
00:38:30,348 --> 00:38:30,358
Yeah.

1277
00:38:30,467 --> 00:38:31,487
It was in Port Colors house.

1278
00:38:31,547 --> 00:38:34,997
What you didn't see was all the committee
rooms around the center of Port Colors

1279
00:38:35,027 --> 00:38:36,557
house where people were just saying,

1280
00:38:36,557 --> 00:38:36,917
"
Well,

1281
00:38:37,967 --> 00:38:39,257
we don't know what's being said here and

1282
00:38:39,257 --> 00:38:39,617
maybe,

1283
00:38:39,647 --> 00:38:40,067
maybe it's

1284
00:38:40,067 --> 00:38:40,667
rather than not

1285
00:38:40,847 --> 00:38:40,888
that we're not

1286
00:38:41,008 --> 00:38:41,248
getting

1287
00:38:41,267 --> 00:38:42,347
we're not getting it.

1288
00:38:42,607 --> 00:38:42,937
So

1289
00:38:42,997 --> 00:38:43,687
would you say

1290
00:38:43,687 --> 00:38:44,047
the

1291
00:38:44,334 --> 00:38:47,304
transport committees were better
than the select committees that

1292
00:38:47,304 --> 00:38:48,954
looked into the

1293
00:38:48,984 --> 00:38:49,644
Mandelson

1294
00:38:49,644 --> 00:38:50,574
Gate saga?

1295
00:38:51,054 --> 00:38:51,504
Well,

1296
00:38:51,804 --> 00:38:54,174
I, Well, That was the Foreign
Affairs Select Committee, wasn't it?

1297
00:38:54,174 --> 00:38:57,864
Which is chaired by Emily Thornbury,
who really not very happy at

1298
00:38:57,864 --> 00:39:00,684
not, not, not being put into the
cabinet at the last election and,

1299
00:39:00,684 --> 00:39:01,854
and, and made that quite apparent.

1300
00:39:01,944 --> 00:39:02,244
didn't She

1301
00:39:02,424 --> 00:39:03,624
she was giving diva,

1302
00:39:03,684 --> 00:39:03,774
I

1303
00:39:03,774 --> 00:39:04,044
think is

1304
00:39:04,344 --> 00:39:05,484
the way to describe that.

1305
00:39:05,596 --> 00:39:08,454
There was very little diva given
on the transport select committee.

1306
00:39:08,454 --> 00:39:08,844
Maybe what-

1307
00:39:08,874 --> 00:39:11,874
when these things are a bit
further from scrutiny, you know,

1308
00:39:11,877 --> 00:39:12,834
they, they're allowed to just

1309
00:39:12,834 --> 00:39:13,104
get on

1310
00:39:13,104 --> 00:39:13,674
with the job.

1311
00:39:13,714 --> 00:39:14,104
No,

1312
00:39:14,104 --> 00:39:14,734
because I, I

1313
00:39:14,734 --> 00:39:15,754
felt, you know, the

1314
00:39:15,814 --> 00:39:18,064
Foreign Affair Select
Committee had identified some

1315
00:39:18,064 --> 00:39:21,874
of the big problems such as
Peter Manson shouldn't have been

1316
00:39:21,884 --> 00:39:22,454
appointed,

1317
00:39:22,724 --> 00:39:23,174
you know, which

1318
00:39:23,174 --> 00:39:23,294
I

1319
00:39:23,294 --> 00:39:23,804
wouldn't have had

1320
00:39:23,804 --> 00:39:23,864
a

1321
00:39:23,864 --> 00:39:24,554
clue about

1322
00:39:24,914 --> 00:39:26,504
unless they'd had at least 12

1323
00:39:26,576 --> 00:39:27,076
sessions.

1324
00:39:28,424 --> 00:39:29,204
Are those helpful

1325
00:39:29,204 --> 00:39:29,924
those, that,

1326
00:39:29,924 --> 00:39:30,134
that

1327
00:39:30,134 --> 00:39:30,494
kind

1328
00:39:30,494 --> 00:39:30,944
of- that

1329
00:39:30,944 --> 00:39:31,814
comment, not very.

1330
00:39:32,257 --> 00:39:33,734
I, I, I think we need to get

1331
00:39:33,734 --> 00:39:34,064
back to

1332
00:39:34,094 --> 00:39:34,544
travel.

1333
00:39:34,904 --> 00:39:38,414
No, those, those, select committees
where it's, it's a big public thing

1334
00:39:38,414 --> 00:39:38,894
or the, or the,

1335
00:39:38,894 --> 00:39:39,134
phone

1336
00:39:39,134 --> 00:39:40,424
hacking ones, are they

1337
00:39:40,904 --> 00:39:41,174
doing

1338
00:39:41,174 --> 00:39:41,234
a

1339
00:39:41,234 --> 00:39:41,504
different

1340
00:39:41,504 --> 00:39:41,714
thing?

1341
00:39:41,714 --> 00:39:43,094
There is quite a lot of grandson.

1342
00:39:43,094 --> 00:39:45,794
I mean, famously Keith has, when he was
in charge of the home affairs committee,

1343
00:39:45,794 --> 00:39:47,114
was very into a celebrity guest.

1344
00:39:47,114 --> 00:39:50,744
So you would tend to get sort
of, um, Russell brand turning

1345
00:39:50,744 --> 00:39:51,734
up, uh, back in the day.

1346
00:39:52,217 --> 00:39:55,004
uh, and, and pontificating for,
for several hours while, while

1347
00:39:55,004 --> 00:39:55,964
Keith tried to get himself in

1348
00:39:55,964 --> 00:39:56,414
the, in in

1349
00:39:56,414 --> 00:39:56,744
the camera

1350
00:39:56,744 --> 00:39:57,074
frame as

1351
00:39:57,074 --> 00:39:57,404
well.

1352
00:39:57,464 --> 00:39:59,654
Uh, so- there is, There are
a lot of criticisms we made

1353
00:39:59,654 --> 00:40:00,404
in this process as well.

1354
00:40:00,614 --> 00:40:02,774
But there are in fact so many of these
select committees that a lot of them

1355
00:40:02,984 --> 00:40:04,274
still are doing a lot of good business.

1356
00:40:04,514 --> 00:40:06,434
I would say just say, well, we're
on this congratulatory thing,

1357
00:40:06,434 --> 00:40:07,784
just slightly self congratulatory.

1358
00:40:07,784 --> 00:40:10,934
I think Gavilbasher, uh, uh, one of
our parliamentary chorismologists

1359
00:40:10,934 --> 00:40:14,204
is an absolutely brilliant job of,
of not focusing on the chamber and

1360
00:40:14,204 --> 00:40:15,554
the, and, and, and prime minister's
questions and that kind of thing and

1361
00:40:15,584 --> 00:40:17,954
getting along to a lot of these select
committees and along to the House of

1362
00:40:17,954 --> 00:40:20,774
Lords Chamber as well, which is another
of the areas that's sort of overlooked

1363
00:40:20,774 --> 00:40:22,934
and ignored by the general daily

1364
00:40:22,934 --> 00:40:23,414
coverage.

1365
00:40:23,414 --> 00:40:23,624
So-

1366
00:40:23,624 --> 00:40:25,304
Right, because the laws, as
far as I see it, they were the

1367
00:40:25,304 --> 00:40:27,164
ones who really, um, ended the

1368
00:40:27,284 --> 00:40:27,704
the assisted

1369
00:40:27,704 --> 00:40:28,724
dying Absolutely.

1370
00:40:28,724 --> 00:40:28,994
Yeah.

1371
00:40:29,144 --> 00:40:31,454
ran into the sand in,
into, in, in the laws

1372
00:40:31,454 --> 00:40:32,234
consistently.

1373
00:40:32,466 --> 00:40:32,526
Yeah.

1374
00:40:32,526 --> 00:40:34,446
But I think it is actually
quite useful occasion to

1375
00:40:34,446 --> 00:40:35,826
restore your faith in democracy.

1376
00:40:36,246 --> 00:40:38,646
In the same way that every year I find
that judging the poor foot towards

1377
00:40:38,646 --> 00:40:41,706
restores my faith in journalism,
because yes, there are a lot of show

1378
00:40:41,706 --> 00:40:45,546
ponies who are very irritating and
in everything and doing much better

1379
00:40:45,546 --> 00:40:47,646
in their careers than me, which
is wrong and shouldn't be allowed.

1380
00:40:47,886 --> 00:40:50,886
But also, there are people
who are doing, like, just

1381
00:40:50,886 --> 00:40:52,776
unglamorous, heavy lifting work,

1382
00:40:52,776 --> 00:40:52,866
and

1383
00:40:52,866 --> 00:40:54,186
that's what you see at
the select committees too.

1384
00:40:54,186 --> 00:40:54,606
Yes.

1385
00:40:54,666 --> 00:40:58,236
And it does not get less glamorous,
I can tell you than maybe half

1386
00:40:58,236 --> 00:41:01,296
an hour of questions about the
electric vehicle excise duty

1387
00:41:01,626 --> 00:41:01,956
which

1388
00:41:01,986 --> 00:41:02,046
you

1389
00:41:02,976 --> 00:41:03,351
you know,

1390
00:41:03,786 --> 00:41:05,466
that you've got to be interested to be-

1391
00:41:05,466 --> 00:41:08,106
Presumably absolutely vital in the
sense that we could be having a flood

1392
00:41:08,106 --> 00:41:11,136
of cheap Chinese electric vehicles here
and they are sort of essentially barred

1393
00:41:11,136 --> 00:41:11,556
from coming

1394
00:41:11,556 --> 00:41:11,916
over, right?

1395
00:41:11,916 --> 00:41:13,140
Like- they're not barred at all.

1396
00:41:13,580 --> 00:41:14,320
They're not barred at all?

1397
00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:14,420
No.

1398
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:14,640
no no.

1399
00:41:14,815 --> 00:41:15,625
So tell us what's

1400
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:16,184
Yeah.

1401
00:41:16,505 --> 00:41:16,615
Oh,

1402
00:41:16,615 --> 00:41:17,275
well, it's

1403
00:41:17,635 --> 00:41:20,905
the, one of the most revealing
comments made was, does the government

1404
00:41:20,935 --> 00:41:22,915
have one foot on the accelerator
and one foot on the brake when it

1405
00:41:22,915 --> 00:41:23,575
comes to this, you

1406
00:41:23,575 --> 00:41:23,725
know.

1407
00:41:23,825 --> 00:41:26,525
They've decreed that by
2030, all new cars have to be

1408
00:41:26,525 --> 00:41:27,185
electric

1409
00:41:27,635 --> 00:41:30,995
in some element, whether that's full
electric or with a bit of hybrid,

1410
00:41:31,056 --> 00:41:34,236
that's coming up quite soon, you know,
it's coming up within a few years.

1411
00:41:34,776 --> 00:41:35,946
Is the country ready for it?

1412
00:41:35,976 --> 00:41:37,956
Are we ready for petrol taxes

1413
00:41:37,956 --> 00:41:38,346
to drop

1414
00:41:38,346 --> 00:41:38,946
off as people

1415
00:41:38,946 --> 00:41:43,016
make the switch, there is a range
of opinion on display in the

1416
00:41:43,106 --> 00:41:45,746
committee, you know, experts are
saying slightly different things

1417
00:41:45,746 --> 00:41:46,556
depending on what they want.

1418
00:41:46,556 --> 00:41:48,956
You know, someone who runs a big
charge point company obviously

1419
00:41:48,956 --> 00:41:50,756
wants more big charge points.

1420
00:41:50,936 --> 00:41:53,726
Someone who's trying to represent
electric vehicle drivers is saying,

1421
00:41:53,726 --> 00:41:57,066
"Well, we just want to make it
convenient so maybe we just need, you

1422
00:41:57,066 --> 00:41:58,806
know, to make home charging easier even

1423
00:41:58,806 --> 00:41:58,926
if

1424
00:41:58,926 --> 00:41:59,136
you don't

1425
00:41:59,136 --> 00:41:59,316
have a

1426
00:41:59,316 --> 00:41:59,796
driveway,

1427
00:41:59,796 --> 00:42:00,606
all of this stuff."

1428
00:42:00,996 --> 00:42:01,056
Yeah.

1429
00:42:01,206 --> 00:42:04,866
That there is one MP on the committee who
quite clearly has a big coach business

1430
00:42:04,866 --> 00:42:07,596
because she only asks questions about
electric coaches and whether- Yeah.

1431
00:42:07,676 --> 00:42:11,196
you know, coach tours are going to be able
to electrify, which I would say is not

1432
00:42:11,196 --> 00:42:11,646
the main

1433
00:42:11,646 --> 00:42:14,166
element of the committee, but that's
not, that's not for me to say,

1434
00:42:14,166 --> 00:42:14,406
you know.

1435
00:42:15,006 --> 00:42:19,206
And the thing of whether it's paid for
is a potential stumbling block by this

1436
00:42:19,266 --> 00:42:23,556
event, which is you're gonna be charged
three P a mile to drive an electric

1437
00:42:23,556 --> 00:42:27,911
car, that's gonna be done, it seems
like in quite a laborious way with

1438
00:42:27,941 --> 00:42:30,311
having to take it in for an MOT, declare

1439
00:42:30,311 --> 00:42:30,461
your

1440
00:42:30,461 --> 00:42:32,291
mileage, get that checked.

1441
00:42:32,801 --> 00:42:33,141
It, it

1442
00:42:33,141 --> 00:42:33,896
sounds like FAF,

1443
00:42:33,971 --> 00:42:34,121
the

1444
00:42:34,121 --> 00:42:34,361
way it's

1445
00:42:34,361 --> 00:42:34,691
currently

1446
00:42:34,691 --> 00:42:35,351
being pitched.

1447
00:42:35,860 --> 00:42:35,950
The

1448
00:42:35,950 --> 00:42:36,910
government's response is, "Well,

1449
00:42:36,910 --> 00:42:37,780
we, we think

1450
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,250
we have to replace

1451
00:42:39,340 --> 00:42:39,670
petrol

1452
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:42,160
duty with something, which is true.

1453
00:42:42,430 --> 00:42:46,540
We're giving lots of notice so people
can get ready for it, and there are

1454
00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:49,390
various projections about whether it
will stop people going electric or not.

1455
00:42:50,314 --> 00:42:52,774
of these committee sessions were
happening before the evidence

1456
00:42:52,774 --> 00:42:53,344
has come in from

1457
00:42:53,344 --> 00:42:56,614
the war in Iran, petrol suddenly
becoming very unaffordable.

1458
00:42:56,614 --> 00:42:57,034
So,

1459
00:42:57,202 --> 00:42:58,809
it's quite hard to tell what, what is

1460
00:42:58,839 --> 00:42:59,049
gonna

1461
00:42:59,049 --> 00:43:00,039
happen next- Yeah.

1462
00:43:00,129 --> 00:43:00,459
... without

1463
00:43:00,459 --> 00:43:00,609
that.

1464
00:43:00,806 --> 00:43:05,036
your feeling was that MPs were
making themselves better informed-

1465
00:43:05,216 --> 00:43:05,396
Yeah.

1466
00:43:05,444 --> 00:43:08,246
and increasing the amount
of information about this

1467
00:43:08,276 --> 00:43:09,176
issue they had on

1468
00:43:09,206 --> 00:43:10,076
hand, which does

1469
00:43:10,076 --> 00:43:11,006
sound good.

1470
00:43:11,216 --> 00:43:11,996
It's really good.

1471
00:43:12,236 --> 00:43:15,566
Like 100%, you know, even, even
when there were opinions being given

1472
00:43:15,566 --> 00:43:19,060
that I you know, I disagreed with,
that the MPs are asking and drilling

1473
00:43:19,060 --> 00:43:20,320
down into the details of all of it

1474
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:20,770
and, you know,

1475
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:23,020
trying to get to the bottom
of it before they issue their

1476
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:23,500
report.

1477
00:43:23,514 --> 00:43:24,387
government- We've gotta get away

1478
00:43:24,387 --> 00:43:25,197
from this drilling

1479
00:43:25,197 --> 00:43:25,467
down

1480
00:43:25,467 --> 00:43:25,947
metaphor.

1481
00:43:26,187 --> 00:43:26,697
Oh yeah.

1482
00:43:26,697 --> 00:43:26,787
It's,

1483
00:43:27,597 --> 00:43:27,777
It's,

1484
00:43:27,777 --> 00:43:28,017
it's not

1485
00:43:28,017 --> 00:43:28,377
helping.

1486
00:43:28,377 --> 00:43:29,037
Charging up, I'm

1487
00:43:29,067 --> 00:43:29,217
not

1488
00:43:29,247 --> 00:43:29,577
sure.

1489
00:43:29,697 --> 00:43:29,997
Yeah.

1490
00:43:30,027 --> 00:43:30,177
They

1491
00:43:30,177 --> 00:43:31,047
were really plugged in.

1492
00:43:31,167 --> 00:43:32,217
They were plugged in.

1493
00:43:32,217 --> 00:43:32,817
There we go.

1494
00:43:32,867 --> 00:43:34,847
yeah, can't wait to read the report.

1495
00:43:34,847 --> 00:43:35,747
I'll be staying up late,

1496
00:43:35,807 --> 00:43:36,017
you know,

1497
00:43:36,017 --> 00:43:36,227
on

1498
00:43:36,227 --> 00:43:37,097
the night before And I can't

1499
00:43:37,097 --> 00:43:41,177
wait to read your report
Of that report in private

1500
00:43:41,177 --> 00:43:41,417
eye.

1501
00:43:41,682 --> 00:43:42,012
and

1502
00:43:42,552 --> 00:43:46,602
so much more, if I can
stress that, uh, including

1503
00:43:46,602 --> 00:43:46,648
the

1504
00:43:46,676 --> 00:43:49,310
Poor Foot Awards Shortlist and,
and, and so much else in the

1505
00:43:49,310 --> 00:43:50,390
next issue of the magazine.

1506
00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:52,790
Uh, that will be out on Newsstand soon.

1507
00:43:52,850 --> 00:43:58,040
You can just buy it in your local shop
or you can go to private-i.co.uk and get

1508
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,260
a very reasonably priced subscription.

1509
00:44:00,830 --> 00:44:01,970
That's it for this episode though.

1510
00:44:01,970 --> 00:44:03,950
We'll be back again in a
fortnight with another one.

1511
00:44:03,950 --> 00:44:06,470
Until then, it's thanks
to Helen, Adam, and Ian.

1512
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,830
Thanks to you for listening and
thanks to Matt Hill of Rethink Audio

1513
00:44:09,890 --> 00:44:10,550
for producing.

1514
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:10,910
Bye for

1515
00:44:10,910 --> 00:44:11,120
now.