Chris [00:00:00]:
All right. Hi everyone and welcome back again to the first Pitch Sport podcast. It feels really good to say the word again because I think we have been recording the last podcast almost three years ago. So it have been quite silent when it comes to the podcast recordings. Therefore, I'm really happy that we start today like a new chapter. Not only like, besides that we are now having like a video style podcast, it's also like our approach this time that moving a little bit more to the global voice is from the field of elite sports, having not only like North American guests, but starting today with Jonas. Jonas Bode has been working as a performance coach right at the heart of the German Bundesliga at Borussia Merchant Gladbach first team. And I'm really happy to have you here today. Welcome Jonas.

Jonas Bode [00:00:52]:
Yeah, it's a pleasure for me. It's a pleasure for me guys. I'm also really happy to be here and to speak a little bit about the first paid center and how we implement all the, all the data.

Chris [00:01:07]:
Then let's get started and start the show. So I was just saying that we have listeners from all around the world and maybe in the beginning it's always like of course for me as an Austrian, Borussia mentioned Cladbach, it's a big name. But maybe you could start in the beginning to tell a little bit about your journey as a performance coach and also some words about the club before we dive deeper into the performance topic.

Jonas Bode [00:01:31]:
For sure. So I start my journey doing my bachelor's degrees in a small town, Jena and a soccer club there, Kaize. It's also a tradition club in the, in the east of Germany. Right now they're playing in the fourth league and I worked there as a performance coach for the U9 team and this was the first time where I worked with the daughter more or less with the first beat Nano, first beat Polar Team Pro was the GPS system and there I first steps in the soccer, professional soccer in the youth and then I moved on to Bayern Munich and have the chance there to work there in the youth with the youth teams as a performance coach. And after two years I moved on to Bolus work here for, for one year for the U23 and right now is at my third, third or fourth season here for the, for the first team. And my responsibilities right now are I'm really, really close to the head coach to do all the load management where I first came in and do a lot of gym work and on field stuff. But the main part is the load management through the week and to Plan the microcycle and all the data with GPS and of course first beat.

Chris [00:02:58]:
Thanks. That's impressive journey. And maybe like a quick question before also. What are the biggest differences that come to your mind when you think about like back working in these three regions in Germany, Jena, eastern Germany. Then you moved to Munich, Bavaria and now you are in Menschenkladbach in Nordra and Westphal.

Jonas Bode [00:03:17]:
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I think working in Gene I was. It was a one man show for all the youth teams in the end and it was quite difficult because then I moved on to Bayern Munich. Like the biggest club in Germany. And you have all the technologies there. You have a lot of more budget for stuff. And I learned a lot because I have good communication there with my colleagues and also with the pro team. This was for my journey. I think the most important part because in these two years learned so much and mentioning. I like the connection between the pro team and the U23 and the youth until now because the communication is mainly on a weekly basis. So in my year in the U23 it was really good to have a good communication with the pros. I joined the gym sessions, the onfit sessions. Therefore it was perfect to learn how the pros are working.

Chris [00:04:25]:
Yeah, this sounds like also like really nice having the own like within the club, their own, you know, youth. SNC coaches get also promoted to the first team. So I think yeah, where everybody like who starts to work in somehow in the performance stuff or like in the coaching area. Like the big goal is of course to be sometimes in the first team and very nice to hear that was possible at Borussia Menschen Gladbach. A question about the club. Maybe you could say a couple of words about Gladbach. How is it going at the moment? How you have now said like you are in the third season with the first team but already have been working in the youth team. That would be interesting for me also.

Jonas Bode [00:05:06]:
Yeah, I think from the traditional side is one of the biggest club in Germany. Was at a really great success in the 80s because I won I don't know three times the championship there. And that was also the last time. Right now it's a little bit more difficult. We're staying in the middle, in the middle of the. Of the league. But you feel on every weekend how big the club are because our stadium is full with 50,000 people and if we're playing away there are also more than 5,000, 7,000 people. What is really crazy. So the transition side is. Yeah, it's A big, big club.

Chris [00:05:48]:
Yeah, definitely. I think that's the reason also why I want to highlight that a little bit. And thanks for sharing that because not only like for me, like when I was a child I was like cheering for players like Flipsner or Effenberg. They were really inspiring me. Therefore it's like quite an honor also like to work so long already with Clutbach together and also having you today here. And I agree like when cheering for a team, of course I follow that also like maybe the last seasons haven't been so successful. But at the same way I've done also some research and yeah, also important to highlight. You have been in the last decade, I think three times in the Champions League. So I think 2020, 2021 also under the top 16 teams. So something also yeah, where you want hopefully. Or you will be back also at some point.

Jonas Bode [00:06:39]:
Hopefully in the next two or three years. We're playing for the European Championships. Good.

Chris [00:06:45]:
Hey, but let's move into the performance topic. You have been implementing first bit step by step over the past few years and my question would be what did that process look like and from the initial instruction actually how it became something you use now on a daily basis.

Jonas Bode [00:07:04]:
We are working with First B now since three years and was really easy to implement firstbeat because you got the bulb, you got the heart rate sensor and you worked with a heart rate bulb or heart rate sensor before. So it was really easy to implement. And also for the data side. Data side. So the workflow after training session where you get all the data, it was really easy because you have your iPad there it is one or two clicks and then you can download all the data and then you go on the website and then you can cut the session in each period. So it was really, really easy for starting for the parameters and where you should take a look on et cetera was a little bit more difficult because there are a lot of parameters there and to find out which parameters fits in our approach and which parameters are more important was the process for us. So after three years I can now tell that it's done. So we have our approach with first speed and how we look on the data and how we implement and how we process all these things.

Chris [00:08:18]:
Yeah, that's great to hear. Thanks for these insights. Maybe let's dive still a little bit deeper into this micro cycle. When thinking about the typical week, can you give us there some insights how you use the system and in what kind of setups?

Jonas Bode [00:08:33]:
We are using first bit on every training session in the week plus on recovery days, on match day plus one inside on the bike and sometimes on individual sessions where we go on bikes in the performance center and on friendly games we are wearing the belt from first speed. A typical micro cycle looks like on matche minus 4 to go a bit deeper now we are playing a lot of small side games. So to keep it short we want to overload the cardiovascular system also there on this day. So we check the live data where you can see and these are our two most important parameters, the high intensity minutes and the trim score. And we have clear goals what we want to reach for every player. So mainly on the match -4 we want to hit these targets for these parameters. And on match day minus three it's more extensive. Larger games we sprint. Therefore we are using the first speed to get some better rest times between the games. That's the Same for matching -4 between the small side games. That's really helpful for us because normally if you're playing a small side game or larger game, whatever, you have a rest time for 30 seconds or 1 minute 30. Then you take a look on the iPad and then you see some players are resting at 85, 90% after after 30 seconds. So the rest time should be a little bit longer. What we are doing then is to speak with the head coach and tell him okay, we need a little bit more rest time and that he can start the next game when we say okay, now mainly all the players are below the 70% maximum heart rate mark to start the next game.

Chris [00:10:31]:
Yeah, thanks that this is very good overview for us also to understand way more better how like on a daily basis the system is used. And I have to say also I'm happy to hear that also in football, especially this match day plus one plus two depending of course always on the club, like the indoor sessions, you know when you maybe also like have more this leg off days, you know the cardiovascular part is monitored. And I think this is also a strong advantage that you can apply the system in all kind of like training sessions. No matter if they're on the beach or somewhere in the gym.

Jonas Bode [00:11:06]:
Yeah, 100%. Especially for the plus one day. For the starters stopping their recovery session with 20 to 30 minutes on a bike. And therefore we want to hit the zone two and we install two or three iPads directly in front of them and then they have a clear goal to reach this mark. And then you can see in the color and the color spectrum, okay, they should be to reach the blue one. Then they go on a Bike to reach the 70% mark and to go

Chris [00:11:37]:
on that and maybe like to like also dive in more in this topic about performance fitness condition fitness testing. I know that like yeah, many of our teams very interested in current like quite hot topic in this like non. Yeah. Or invisible testing. Let's say this non invasive testing. Invisible testing. How you have been like successfully implementing this kind of submaximal fitness testing and how often do you conduct that with your players?

Jonas Bode [00:12:12]:
I watched the video from Martin Boucher with first bit together and I would like to recommend to all of all of you guys to watch this presentation this webinar and was brilliant because all the topics were really easy to understand and it's really practical. So for all the guys who are working in the practice with the team could learn from this webinar. And we ask ourselves in our department three or four questions. So why we should implement the Submaxima fitness test, how we should implement and when. I think these three kinds of questions should be should be answered before you install these tests. The why we answered was mainly one thing and that is how is the fitness trend of a player for a better communication with the CEO, with the head coach. Sometimes you have the discussion after bad game you lose. Then the coach came came and maybe maybe when we say okay, the players aren't fit enough. So depending on something. So then you have a have a better basis for discussion and to see should we implement more more running. Should we train harder if the trend is negative from the fitness and in the best case if the training is positively so then you're in a good way. So keep going. And then you have for sure other other other points like the correlation between the MAS VO2 max. What you said before. It's a test without testing. So non invasive. The players doesn't know that it's a test. It's sub maximal. So the player haven't so much fatigue from this test. And the duration is really short. We implement the submaximal fitness test with a straight line test from straight line 9095 meters because our pitch from corner to corner is 95 meters. So we run in one line 95 meters eight times. So the tempo is 11.2 kilometers per hour. And the duration with the change of direction every time is nearly 5, 4 minutes and 5 seconds. That is how we implement these tests. Because it's really easy to install. You need only two lines and you can directly start so you don't lose time to install a curve, a shutter, whatever. And then the most important question should Be when on which time you should implement this test. I think the most important rule is be consistent, do it on the same time always. And our first, first thought was okay, we do it on the week where we have maybe five training days before the next match. We do it on the first day. But on the webinar with Martin and the colleagues I heard a little bit about the blood plasma and then I read some studies about this topic and the blood plasma is a little bit lower on. On off days. So if you train the first time after off day, so the blood plasma is a little bit lower. So the blood plasma has a good correlation between a better performance. So we decided to do it on a match day minus three. In a normal week. In a normal week. Looks like with four training days before the match, we do it three days before. So we have 1:1, 1:20 sessions in the legs, not too much, not more than two. And it fits perfectly to this character of this session on the match three what I said before, it's more extensive, more extensive day. And we do it directly after the activation inside. So we do in a German activation, a small activation with everybody. We go directly on the pitch and we start with these tests for four minutes and it's one part of our warm up. So we spoke with our players and with the coaches and said to them okay, it's only one small part of our warmup. Four minutes we run. It should be really easy, no talking is allowed. And this was our answer for when. And we're doing this test every four to six weeks. Depends on a bit on our micro cycle. We're playing on the next, on the next weekend. But yeah, we do it mainly every four to six weeks.

Chris [00:16:58]:
Great, thanks for sharing. Also this quite precise protocols and how it looked like in practice. And may I ask also how does this data feed into training decisions or how do you like. Do you have a good case example, for example for one or two players,

Jonas Bode [00:17:15]:
I think it was in January. We did the test directly after the off days about Christmas to see how the, how the, how the running plan was for them. And it was really good to see how that the plan, the running plan really, really, really good. And which player doesn't because we have I don't know 50% nearly the house of players had a positive trend after the last test before and the other half doesn't. And you saw that directly in preseason in winter the players. And that was only a subjective opinion from the head coach. They weren't fit. So yeah to see that and then we installed some runs after the training for them to hit the mas. Yes, to do a little bit more with them because we can directly show the players, okay, look, you're unfit. That was the last test. That's the test now. So it was a negative trend. You should do a little bit more.

Chris [00:18:17]:
Yeah, I think there it's already coming like to the next topic because sometimes like you know, this communication to the player or to get the player and coaches buy in. It's especially like when the physiology is measured, monitored, applied, you know, sometimes a critical topic because certain metrics or parameters are not so clear in the first wave. And you compare for example with GPS data like when you say max speed or distance. This is something what normally everybody from the street can pick up already. So I really would like to hear from you how this buy in or communication with the data from first bid has been applied in your setup.

Jonas Bode [00:19:01]:
I think it's easy because for example, after a small side game session we have one player who's way over the line. So you get more than 10 minutes in the red zone above 90% and his normal average should more like three or four minutes. And after, after I saw the data, I directly went to them and asked how you feel because you're, you're so much more minutes and wet zone than normal. And he directly answered, yeah, I'm totally dead because of a lack of sleep, because maybe he got some illness in the future, whatever. And that is the main part. And for the buy in because it's have a good correlation between the perceived of the exertion and the first B data above 90%. So therefore the buy in of the players is good. And also for the coach because right now the head coach ask every time can I start the next game? Can I start the next game? Because he sees and that the quality, the quality in the matches is a little bit higher if we doing some more rest. It's completely, it's completely easy to understand because if you, if you're going with 90% in the next game, so it's normal that you, that you hired after 10 or 15 seconds. Therefore the buy in is also really good.

Chris [00:20:33]:
Great. But like when I, when I sum that a little bit up, is it then still like the main communication is then like in the first phase about like time spent in certain heart rate zones or do you sometimes go also like in the communication with like first with training load metrics like TRIMP or training effect?

Jonas Bode [00:20:52]:
Yeah, what I said before, the minutes and the hardware zones are one parameter. The other One is the trim, what looks more or less like a volume parameter for us. Therefore we have the communication with the head coach. So we are using these two parameters with the average and the standard devitation after training and give them every time they had coach the data and where the players are more than average below the average for these two parameters. Because two inputs a little bit more for the volume. If the training session is a little bit longer like on match chair minus three the training session the duration is longer than the day before. So the trim is a little bit higher. But the high intensity minutes are higher on the match -4 because of the small set gains.

Chris [00:21:45]:
And yeah, that's really great to hear in that sense. Also like that you have like then also sports specific approach for the certain segments of a training session. What you can like then more specifically evaluate. Maybe I ask also like one more question regarding the communication and reporting part. How do you see it like also in the future? How much data is good needed? Is there some overwhelming already based on your experiences in the field? I think yeah. Saying also that like you starting as a almost like not full Roki but like you know, in professional business at Bayern Munich Academy, there was like almost everything available. How, how has it been like for you in the past? Like let's say five, six years? Like how do you see this field of sport technology and data tracking?

Jonas Bode [00:22:37]:
Yeah, it's overwhelming 100% and you should stick to the basics. And if that are only four or five parameters and you watch them on a daily basis, then you do great work 100%. Because if you're doing this consistent, you watch this parameters consistent over years, over years you get a better feeling for the players, for the situation and you learn more a person. For example, if you're using 8, 9 parameters and you look for that for that. I mean sometimes a new parameter comes in and you put something out for that. I think it's completely fine. I mean right now for GPS technology we should definitely work more with the individual thresholds than the normal thresholds. What, what the, what the systems are like. Okay. We should not look for meters above 24 kilometers per hour. Maybe right now we should look more above the, the 80% V maximum speed mark. But for this to put something out on the basket, I think it makes more sense to have smaller parameters, a smaller count of parameters in the baskets and do this one on a, on a daily basis. And consistency.

Chris [00:23:58]:
Yeah, makes sense. Maybe like you know, we are getting to the end already of, of this recording of this show. But yeah, I hope my product manager is then not like yeah, somehow pissed off or too heavily surprised because of course we have yeah always like you know, benefited from this close relationship with our customers and having also like a very open discussion with our customers in that sense. Like also when it comes to the wish list and what actually like the future brings, is there something where you have like also. Yeah. For the technology providers for first with something in your mind, what would be making your life easier on a daily basis?

Jonas Bode [00:24:43]:
That's a good question. That's a really good question. I think only for the practice for the sub maximum fitness test. I think that is our main problem with first speed right now. But it's not the problem. But the players do the hardware belt on, put the sensor on on the field and afterwards we got the data and see the graph wasn't there because the connection was there. Yeah, the belt wasn't, wasn't wet enough. But to see on live on the iPad if the signal is there or not is maybe helpful for us because sometimes we lose the connection in the training because the players we are in the belt to lose to see this live on iPad we lose the connection. The checklist would be, would be good but it's only a small thing and it's more or less the the thing of the players because it's too loose. I ask them where's the, where's the heart rate belt and yeah, it's on my stomach. Good. That is good. That is the only thing.

Chris [00:25:48]:
Yeah, but great. Thanks for the feedback and actually that's really good to hear because on our roadmap I would say like in the upcoming weeks we have also now soon almost like in a week, you know, on the 30th of March, our Berlin summit. In that sense like there is something coming also especially for the on field monitoring. We will have like something announced soon like where you have like the option to first of all use also this submaximal fitness testing in real time having like a better overview about the data quality in real time where you can then like you know start and stop the session already on the pitch. So saving you then time also in the handling with the data and the communication. I think this has been always like one of our main, main priority.

Jonas Bode [00:26:35]:
Wow. Yeah, that sounds good.

Chris [00:26:37]:
All right. Hey, thanks Jonas for having you today here and thanks again also for sharing this insightful feedback from the field. I think yeah all our listeners definitely can benefit from having like this open minded approach by using certain technology. Please feel free also like if you like this podcast to leave a like or a comment. And yeah, best would be of course start following us and is it on the podcast side or on social media channels so you won't miss any of our latest news or developments or like, as I said, these upcoming fields events on the field. If you are start interested in starting to use our technology, our solution, or you have any kind of questions in mind, you can also like yeah, just drop me a message or free to reach me out through social medias. I'm always happy to set up a meeting or a call and connect with you. All right. Yeah, have a good one and cheers.