1 00:00:03,066 --> 00:00:04,548 HEBE: Bears, where are you? 2 00:00:05,689 --> 00:00:07,350 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Where are you bears? 3 00:00:08,111 --> 00:00:10,833 HEBE: Where are you bears? 4 00:00:11,154 --> 00:00:12,435 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Bears, where are you? 5 00:00:14,357 --> 00:00:15,598 HEBE: Bears, where are you? 6 00:00:23,865 --> 00:00:26,067 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Deep in the forests of Transylvania in 7 00:00:26,107 --> 00:00:29,914 Romania, Europe's largest population of brown bears still 8 00:00:29,994 --> 00:00:33,916 roam freely. But what does that mean when a busy city like 9 00:00:33,936 --> 00:00:37,518 Brașov sits right on their doorstep and when a family hike 10 00:00:37,578 --> 00:00:42,782 in the Transylvanian forests becomes a search for bears? I'm 11 00:00:42,822 --> 00:00:45,643 Rosie Holdsworth and you're listening to Wild Tales, 12 00:00:46,204 --> 00:00:47,564 European Brown Bears. 13 00:00:47,564 --> 00:00:55,305 HEBE: Goodness me, mummy 14 00:00:55,305 --> 00:00:56,506 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Goodness me, Hebe. 15 00:00:57,988 --> 00:01:01,070 So we're mixing things up today and doing things a little bit 16 00:01:01,110 --> 00:01:05,534 differently because I'm interrupting my lovely holiday 17 00:01:05,894 --> 00:01:10,258 in Transylvania in Romania to tell you a little bit about what 18 00:01:10,298 --> 00:01:14,361 we're up to today. So I am with my lovely husband Rob and our 19 00:01:14,422 --> 00:01:19,306 little girl Hebe. We are hiking in the Tampa Hills above Brașov 20 00:01:19,606 --> 00:01:21,848 which is a really beautiful medieval town. 21 00:01:23,288 --> 00:01:29,195 About three hours north of Bucharest, the capital, and we 22 00:01:29,376 --> 00:01:34,021 are going to see if we can see some wildlife and hopefully spot 23 00:01:34,081 --> 00:01:35,223 some signs of bears. 24 00:01:37,128 --> 00:01:40,950 It's very beautiful November day, the sun's shining, the 25 00:01:40,990 --> 00:01:41,950 leaves are crunching 26 00:01:41,950 --> 00:01:44,992 HEBE: The bears of scared off by our bells. 27 00:01:44,992 --> 00:01:47,693 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: And the bears are scared off by our bells. 28 00:01:47,753 --> 00:01:52,575 That's my toddler on my back. So you can hear the bells that 29 00:01:52,615 --> 00:01:55,816 we've brought with us and that's because bears don't like to be 30 00:01:55,857 --> 00:01:56,477 surprised. 31 00:01:56,537 --> 00:01:59,538 Nobody likes to be surprised but bears particularly dislike being 32 00:01:59,578 --> 00:02:04,096 surprised. So we're staying safe by making lots of noise. Which 33 00:02:04,116 --> 00:02:06,679 is easy when you've got a toddler and they like to sing as 34 00:02:06,699 --> 00:02:11,624 you walk. But we'll keep looking. But when we were out 35 00:02:11,625 --> 00:02:14,186 the other day we did see some bear tracks which were very 36 00:02:14,266 --> 00:02:19,011 fresh from that morning. So we're hopeful that before we 37 00:02:19,031 --> 00:02:21,373 have to go home we might see bears. 38 00:02:25,516 --> 00:02:29,239 So what exactly are my family and I walking amongst? Csaba 39 00:02:29,239 --> 00:02:32,601 Domokos is a biologist with a Romanian conservation charity 40 00:02:32,901 --> 00:02:36,384 called Milvus Group and he spent more than 20 years working with 41 00:02:36,424 --> 00:02:39,406 brown bears here in Transylvania. So he knows their 42 00:02:39,446 --> 00:02:40,587 habits very well. 43 00:02:41,227 --> 00:02:45,030 CSABA DOMOKOS: Brown bears in Europe are basically the largest 44 00:02:45,210 --> 00:02:51,474 land predators. We call them large carnivores but they are in 45 00:02:51,594 --> 00:02:52,595 fact omnivores. 46 00:02:53,075 --> 00:02:56,402 It's a brown bear. But the name can be somewhat misleading 47 00:02:56,662 --> 00:03:00,244 because brown bears' color can actually range from a bright 48 00:03:00,344 --> 00:03:04,727 yellow to a shiny black. For example, here in Romania, among 49 00:03:04,747 --> 00:03:08,069 the rural population, there are all kinds of myths about black 50 00:03:08,129 --> 00:03:09,971 bears and all these other species. 51 00:03:10,031 --> 00:03:14,013 And this is mainly because of this very wide range of colors 52 00:03:14,053 --> 00:03:19,737 they can have. And also the very wide range of body sizes, just 53 00:03:19,857 --> 00:03:20,798 as with people. 54 00:03:21,298 --> 00:03:24,548 So we have like smaller bears and then we have... true 55 00:03:24,848 --> 00:03:25,909 behemoths as well. 56 00:03:32,495 --> 00:03:36,498 The more you go towards the north, their bodies get usually 57 00:03:36,618 --> 00:03:40,642 bigger and bigger. But let's say a very big bear in Romania would 58 00:03:40,702 --> 00:03:45,926 be something up to 400 kilograms or something like this. And that 59 00:03:46,106 --> 00:03:48,048 animal is already very, very big. 60 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,362 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: To give you some context, that's the 61 00:03:52,402 --> 00:03:54,504 equivalent weight of five grown men. 62 00:03:56,245 --> 00:03:58,547 CSABA DOMOKOS: They are incredibly strong animals, so 63 00:03:58,707 --> 00:04:01,630 you cannot compare them really to anything else in nature, I 64 00:04:01,650 --> 00:04:01,850 think. 65 00:04:02,391 --> 00:04:05,053 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: That includes their rather unusual shape. 66 00:04:05,514 --> 00:04:08,216 CSABA DOMOKOS: They do have a shoulder hump and it's basically 67 00:04:08,396 --> 00:04:12,260 made up mostly from muscle. They use these huge muscles, for 68 00:04:12,300 --> 00:04:15,803 example, to turn over rocks to look for ants underneath them. 69 00:04:17,252 --> 00:04:20,317 So bears have five fingers basically on each pole and each 70 00:04:20,337 --> 00:04:24,182 of the fingers ends in a huge claw which then they use for 71 00:04:24,603 --> 00:04:27,808 digging up stuff or they use them as precision tools for 72 00:04:27,828 --> 00:04:30,692 example for opening clams and feeding on clams. 73 00:04:31,682 --> 00:04:35,904 They are big, powerful animals. People see them usually and they 74 00:04:35,944 --> 00:04:39,947 have this strange type of body and then they somehow assume 75 00:04:39,987 --> 00:04:43,949 that it's a slow animal somehow, but they are incredibly fast. 76 00:04:44,109 --> 00:04:48,111 They can easily reach up to 50 kilometers per hour. They can 77 00:04:48,171 --> 00:04:52,834 basically outrun a racehorse. So it's really an unbelievable 78 00:04:52,894 --> 00:04:53,174 animal. 79 00:04:56,976 --> 00:04:59,357 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: So with all of the incredible wildlife that 80 00:04:59,397 --> 00:05:03,884 Transylvania has to offer, what is it about bears particularly 81 00:05:04,064 --> 00:05:07,887 that has got me in bear fever and scuttling about in the 82 00:05:07,907 --> 00:05:10,769 woods, desperate to see any signs of them? I mean, I've 83 00:05:10,889 --> 00:05:13,591 always loved bears. They're one of my favourite animals. 84 00:05:14,291 --> 00:05:17,454 It kind of goes back to childhood. We used to watch The 85 00:05:17,474 --> 00:05:19,895 Jungle Book on repeat whenever we went to my granny and 86 00:05:19,896 --> 00:05:24,038 grandpa's house. And I think Baloo the bear just was like the 87 00:05:24,098 --> 00:05:27,261 character that kind of really chimed with me the most. 88 00:05:27,921 --> 00:05:33,160 They're such big, charismatic, fascinating creatures. The fact 89 00:05:33,161 --> 00:05:36,202 that they're still here and they're still doing their bear 90 00:05:36,282 --> 00:05:38,763 thing minding their own business, bumbling about in the 91 00:05:38,783 --> 00:05:39,784 woods. 92 00:05:39,784 --> 00:05:43,326 It's just amazing when you think about the change that's happened 93 00:05:43,327 --> 00:05:46,407 in some of these habitats and the pressures that those animals 94 00:05:46,427 --> 00:05:51,690 are under, in what is quite a small area. Romania is not a 95 00:05:51,730 --> 00:05:54,732 massive country but they're still here. They've carved out 96 00:05:54,752 --> 00:05:58,314 their niche and they're being really really successful. So, I 97 00:05:58,315 --> 00:06:01,576 would absolutely love to see them whilst we're here. 98 00:06:02,616 --> 00:06:06,358 Which does make you wonder just how many bears are actually out 99 00:06:06,418 --> 00:06:06,618 here. 100 00:06:07,919 --> 00:06:10,321 CSABA DOMOKOS: The exact size of the Romanian bear population is 101 00:06:10,401 --> 00:06:15,023 really a subject of hot debates for many years now. The official 102 00:06:15,103 --> 00:06:19,846 numbers put this population around 10,000 individuals, but 103 00:06:19,906 --> 00:06:23,008 actually a little bit above this. It's probably the biggest 104 00:06:23,088 --> 00:06:27,210 national population of brown bears in Europe, actually. 105 00:06:29,038 --> 00:06:31,520 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: A massive population for a country of this 106 00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:36,223 size. Romania was kind of Eastern Europe's last stronghold 107 00:06:36,323 --> 00:06:39,305 for the brown bears. Due to conservation efforts and 108 00:06:39,306 --> 00:06:41,867 protection, they've been able to spread back through the 109 00:06:41,868 --> 00:06:45,429 Carpathians, out into other countries, and this is kind of 110 00:06:45,929 --> 00:06:48,811 where the recovery of the European brown bear population 111 00:06:48,812 --> 00:06:49,632 has started from. 112 00:06:50,352 --> 00:06:53,394 But we're probably only about an hour out of the city centre of 113 00:06:53,414 --> 00:06:57,977 Brașov, and there are bears here, so that's absolutely 114 00:06:58,017 --> 00:06:58,538 incredible. 115 00:07:04,562 --> 00:07:07,344 CSABA DOMOKOS: So in Romania, in reality, bears share their 116 00:07:07,424 --> 00:07:10,868 habitats with people. People from Western Europe tend to 117 00:07:11,148 --> 00:07:15,952 think of Romania as somehow like the land of wilderness, which in 118 00:07:15,953 --> 00:07:16,953 a way it is. 119 00:07:17,393 --> 00:07:22,698 Every single individual bear needs an area usually of several 120 00:07:22,758 --> 00:07:26,181 hundred square kilometers. And if you think about it like that, 121 00:07:26,341 --> 00:07:31,305 then there is actually not a lot of space left wild in Romania. 122 00:07:31,305 --> 00:07:36,393 So, basically every bear here will eventually come into 123 00:07:36,453 --> 00:07:40,295 contact with people and most of the individuals of the Romanian 124 00:07:40,335 --> 00:07:44,158 bear population spend at least a few good months of their lives 125 00:07:44,238 --> 00:07:47,200 each year close to cities and to villages. 126 00:07:48,621 --> 00:07:49,242 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: What are they for? 127 00:07:51,583 --> 00:07:54,245 HEBE: Bears scared off by our bears, mommy. 128 00:07:54,285 --> 00:07:56,527 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: That's right, the bears are scared off by our 129 00:07:56,547 --> 00:07:59,108 bears. We keep ourselves safe. 130 00:08:02,210 --> 00:08:05,092 We're doing all the right things, making plenty of noise, 131 00:08:05,332 --> 00:08:08,494 but it does raise another question. What are the bears 132 00:08:08,574 --> 00:08:09,714 actually eating out here? 133 00:08:12,656 --> 00:08:15,758 CSABA DOMOKOS: They are really carnivores that have adapted to 134 00:08:15,898 --> 00:08:18,320 some degree to also eating plants. 135 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,261 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Which is good news for me and my family. 136 00:08:21,261 --> 00:08:24,403 CSABA DOMOKOS: They eat a lot of plants, but they also eat a lot 137 00:08:24,404 --> 00:08:28,326 of insects, and then they also actively hunt, but they also 138 00:08:28,426 --> 00:08:32,813 scavenge. Both animals that died of natural causes and the prey 139 00:08:32,913 --> 00:08:36,656 of other carnivore species, because they share their 140 00:08:36,716 --> 00:08:40,519 habitats with grey wolves and with Eurasian lynx. So whenever 141 00:08:40,579 --> 00:08:44,262 they can, they will actually try and steal the prey of this other 142 00:08:44,582 --> 00:08:45,423 species as well. 143 00:08:46,104 --> 00:08:47,965 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: When you're at the top of the food chain, you 144 00:08:48,005 --> 00:08:48,606 can do that. 145 00:08:49,066 --> 00:08:51,588 CSABA DOMOKOS: One of the most important diet items for brown 146 00:08:51,628 --> 00:08:55,992 bears are ants, in a somewhat surprising way. And they eat 147 00:08:56,572 --> 00:09:01,216 basically anthills with ants eggs and larvae and with dirt. 148 00:09:02,658 --> 00:09:04,759 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: But there's one thing that bears seem to 149 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,661 love more than anything else. 150 00:09:06,662 --> 00:09:08,563 CSABA DOMOKOS: They actually do like honey a lot and they will 151 00:09:08,763 --> 00:09:13,787 try to raid both wild bees and beekeeper's property as well and 152 00:09:13,807 --> 00:09:15,349 they do raid them quite often. 153 00:09:17,050 --> 00:09:19,132 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: It's not just about having a sweet tooth. 154 00:09:19,813 --> 00:09:22,675 CSABA DOMOKOS: Honey is extremely nutritious. It's 155 00:09:22,715 --> 00:09:26,760 really high on calories and bears are basically machines 156 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,270 looking for a very high calorie intake, especially when they 157 00:09:30,330 --> 00:09:33,484 start preparing for their winter sleep, they have to accumulate a 158 00:09:33,544 --> 00:09:37,387 huge amount of fat to be able to live from it throughout the 159 00:09:37,407 --> 00:09:37,767 winter. 160 00:09:38,648 --> 00:09:41,390 There are some studies suggesting that they can consume 161 00:09:41,391 --> 00:09:45,153 up to 20,000 calories every single day. And honey is really, 162 00:09:45,253 --> 00:09:47,815 really high on calories, so whenever they can, they will 163 00:09:47,895 --> 00:09:48,776 actually go for it. 164 00:09:50,237 --> 00:09:51,979 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: So right now, these bears are eating 165 00:09:52,079 --> 00:09:54,681 constantly, preparing for what comes next. 166 00:09:56,998 --> 00:10:00,421 So we're deep into autumn, it's November, and the bears are 167 00:10:00,422 --> 00:10:03,423 definitely starting to think about hibernating. So far it's 168 00:10:03,463 --> 00:10:06,785 been pretty mild, there's not been much frost here, a lot of 169 00:10:06,786 --> 00:10:09,627 the bears are still active, and they've kind of, every year 170 00:10:09,707 --> 00:10:12,829 they've got to do this balancing act really, between staying out 171 00:10:12,830 --> 00:10:15,751 of hibernation long enough to put on enough fat stores to see 172 00:10:15,752 --> 00:10:18,834 them through the winter, versus staying out too long and kind of 173 00:10:19,054 --> 00:10:21,696 burning those fat stores whilst they search for more food. 174 00:10:23,677 --> 00:10:26,719 CSABA DOMOKOS: This is a really neat adaptation actually to the 175 00:10:26,940 --> 00:10:31,464 scarcity of food. It's simply a way of preserving energy of time 176 00:10:31,904 --> 00:10:34,727 when food is really scarce. So what they have to do is that 177 00:10:34,907 --> 00:10:39,491 they accumulate a huge amount of fat before that. In Romania, 178 00:10:40,111 --> 00:10:44,735 usually they go into this winter sleep somewhere around December. 179 00:10:52,978 --> 00:10:56,180 In this area where I work, in Romania's Eastern Carpathians, 180 00:10:56,340 --> 00:11:00,403 they dig dens out for themselves. We don't have to 181 00:11:00,443 --> 00:11:03,946 imagine it like a big cave or anything. It's basically the 182 00:11:04,226 --> 00:11:07,688 size of the bear. So it normally has a small entrance, a really 183 00:11:07,768 --> 00:11:10,870 small one. Sometimes it's surprising how a big animal can 184 00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:14,473 squeeze through something like that. Then usually a small 185 00:11:15,273 --> 00:11:18,936 corridor leading to a chamber. And the smaller it is, actually 186 00:11:18,956 --> 00:11:22,298 the better it is because it can keep it partially warm 187 00:11:22,650 --> 00:11:23,410 throughout the winter. 188 00:11:25,611 --> 00:11:28,813 A bear will simply curl up inside one of these dens and 189 00:11:28,853 --> 00:11:33,275 then spend several months there without eating or drinking or 190 00:11:33,375 --> 00:11:37,156 moving actually. This is also a period when they are most 191 00:11:37,236 --> 00:11:42,238 exposed to disturbance by people and this can be actually quite 192 00:11:42,419 --> 00:11:45,200 dangerous for people and for bears alike. 193 00:11:50,342 --> 00:11:52,163 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: A bear suddenly woken from its winter 194 00:11:52,223 --> 00:11:55,324 torpor is likely to feel threatened and defend itself. 195 00:11:55,904 --> 00:11:59,086 Which is why stumbling across a hibernating bear is something 196 00:11:59,106 --> 00:12:00,646 you really want to avoid. 197 00:12:03,507 --> 00:12:06,369 But as the days begin to lengthen and the first signs of 198 00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:07,029 spring appear... 199 00:12:08,029 --> 00:12:10,950 CSABA DOMOKOS: The first to emerge are basically males and 200 00:12:10,990 --> 00:12:14,772 then females that are single or females that are accompanied by 201 00:12:14,892 --> 00:12:18,653 cubs of last year, so two-year-old cubs. And then the 202 00:12:18,694 --> 00:12:21,635 last ones to come out, are the females with newborn cubs, 203 00:12:21,715 --> 00:12:24,916 because this is one of the other very neat adaptations of bears, 204 00:12:25,657 --> 00:12:31,239 that they actually give birth to their cubs during this winter 205 00:12:31,319 --> 00:12:31,759 sleep time. 206 00:12:31,779 --> 00:12:34,500 This is also why it's so important that they put on a lot 207 00:12:34,501 --> 00:12:38,742 of fat before that, because then they will not feed or drink. 208 00:12:39,182 --> 00:12:41,904 Pregnant females, they will give birth and they will nurture 209 00:12:41,964 --> 00:12:46,045 their cubs entirely from the fat reserve they have accumulated 210 00:12:46,105 --> 00:12:46,646 before that. 211 00:12:50,946 --> 00:12:53,467 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: As a mum myself, that completely blows my 212 00:12:53,507 --> 00:12:58,048 mind. Breastfeeding humans need about 500 extra calories a day. 213 00:12:58,568 --> 00:13:03,349 I ate an enormous amount of cake on maternity leave. But mother 214 00:13:03,390 --> 00:13:06,710 bears survive the whole winter on stored fat reserves, and 215 00:13:06,830 --> 00:13:09,451 often there's more than one newborn cub to feed. 216 00:13:11,172 --> 00:13:13,072 CSABA DOMOKOS: So a brown bear would normally have somewhere 217 00:13:13,112 --> 00:13:17,433 around two or three cubs actually. In exceptional cases 218 00:13:17,473 --> 00:13:22,490 there have been also five. Usually less than 50% of those 219 00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:25,178 cubs actually reach the age of one year. 220 00:13:26,097 --> 00:13:28,838 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Predators such as humans, wolves and even other 221 00:13:28,878 --> 00:13:30,298 bears play a part in this. 222 00:13:31,058 --> 00:13:33,019 CSABA DOMOKOS: Life is difficult in the forest. 223 00:13:34,059 --> 00:13:36,560 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: But today on our walk there are bears still 224 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:41,641 out there, eating, preparing and waiting for winter, which means 225 00:13:41,642 --> 00:13:44,522 that there's still a chance my family and I might spot one or 226 00:13:44,562 --> 00:13:44,742 two. 227 00:13:44,742 --> 00:13:49,524 HEBE: Bears where are you? 228 00:13:50,744 --> 00:13:52,464 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Where are you bears? 229 00:13:52,464 --> 00:13:54,505 HEBE: Where are you bears? 230 00:13:56,913 --> 00:13:59,275 CSABA DOMOKOS: Because the bear population in Romania is so 231 00:13:59,435 --> 00:14:03,798 large and also because they're quite close to some fairly big 232 00:14:03,878 --> 00:14:07,561 kind of urban centres, there is quite a big issue with human 233 00:14:07,641 --> 00:14:11,264 wildlife conflict in Romania. So the Romanian government is kind 234 00:14:11,265 --> 00:14:13,865 of looking at that and looking at measures that can be put in 235 00:14:13,885 --> 00:14:16,908 place to kind of keep people and keep the bears safe. Because 236 00:14:17,268 --> 00:14:20,510 where those conflicts happen, obviously not only are people in 237 00:14:20,530 --> 00:14:23,973 danger, but the bears are as well. And it kind of you need 238 00:14:24,425 --> 00:14:27,486 public trust and public opinion on your side for conservation to 239 00:14:27,487 --> 00:14:28,207 be successful. 240 00:14:32,728 --> 00:14:35,510 When living together with bears, on one hand they do cause 241 00:14:36,370 --> 00:14:40,632 damages to human property, they occasionally kill livestock, 242 00:14:41,412 --> 00:14:46,354 they actively hunt sheep and cattle sometimes, and then they 243 00:14:46,434 --> 00:14:51,596 also cause damages in agricultural crops, for example 244 00:14:51,696 --> 00:14:53,797 in fruit trees. 245 00:14:54,325 --> 00:14:59,767 So they really like these apples and pears and plums. But they 246 00:14:59,907 --> 00:15:02,428 don't simply just eat the fruits, then they will also 247 00:15:02,688 --> 00:15:07,050 break the trees while getting the fruit. Nowadays we have a 248 00:15:07,090 --> 00:15:12,692 lot of corn all over in Romania, so they can cause extensive 249 00:15:12,732 --> 00:15:14,873 damages in corn fields as well. 250 00:15:18,109 --> 00:15:21,972 Probably the most sensitive issue regarding bears is that 251 00:15:22,032 --> 00:15:27,075 they can also cause injuries to people and occasionally, sadly. 252 00:15:27,376 --> 00:15:32,119 They can also kill people. These kind of incidents are quite 253 00:15:32,179 --> 00:15:33,920 rare, even in Romania, I would say. 254 00:15:34,221 --> 00:15:38,163 And they absolutely pale compared to any other cause of 255 00:15:38,223 --> 00:15:40,925 human mortality. So I think we have somewhere around 256 00:15:42,406 --> 00:15:46,493 20-something people killed in the last 20 years by bears. In 257 00:15:46,533 --> 00:15:50,756 most cases, these attacks are not by accident. They have been 258 00:15:50,876 --> 00:15:57,461 somehow provoked by people. So, we cannot somehow separate bears 259 00:15:57,481 --> 00:15:58,982 from people or people from bears. 260 00:15:59,723 --> 00:16:03,906 And then we somehow have to find a way to coexist with them. This 261 00:16:03,966 --> 00:16:08,469 is, I think, possible. And the best proof for it is the fact 262 00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:12,392 that we still have bears. I think that maintaining some kind 263 00:16:12,452 --> 00:16:16,602 of social tolerance... Or social acceptance towards these animals 264 00:16:16,922 --> 00:16:19,943 is really crucial for their long-term survival. 265 00:16:21,684 --> 00:16:24,165 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: And for Csaba, a biologist who works with large 266 00:16:24,205 --> 00:16:27,586 carnivores, coexistence sometimes means getting 267 00:16:27,766 --> 00:16:28,927 dangerously close. 268 00:16:31,468 --> 00:16:34,529 CSABA DOMOKOS: I had a lot of very close encounters throughout 269 00:16:34,530 --> 00:16:37,530 the years with bears and probably one of the most 270 00:16:37,651 --> 00:16:40,892 dangerous thing that we occasionally have to do is to 271 00:16:40,952 --> 00:16:46,914 free bears from this wire snare setup by poachers. Because these 272 00:16:46,974 --> 00:16:50,656 are really uncontrolled situations, you cannot really 273 00:16:50,816 --> 00:16:54,417 tell until it's too late how a bear is caught in those wire 274 00:16:54,517 --> 00:16:58,839 snares. A lot of times they are physically hurting, and these 275 00:16:58,859 --> 00:17:00,720 are really dangerous situations. 276 00:17:04,261 --> 00:17:08,223 There have been a few cases when we approached these animals, you 277 00:17:08,243 --> 00:17:12,485 know, they actually broke these wires that were holding them in 278 00:17:12,525 --> 00:17:12,845 place. 279 00:17:13,373 --> 00:17:17,054 We had cases when there was a mother caught in a snare and 280 00:17:17,074 --> 00:17:20,255 there was its cub caught in another snare and I was in 281 00:17:20,295 --> 00:17:24,437 between them and the mother broke the snare. And even in 282 00:17:24,517 --> 00:17:29,598 this case you know she just ran away and even abandoned her cub. 283 00:17:30,699 --> 00:17:36,560 This somehow for me this somehow conveys the message that in most 284 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,241 cases you are fine. 285 00:17:42,729 --> 00:17:46,312 Brown bear attacks are not predatory attacks. They happen 286 00:17:46,512 --> 00:17:50,035 out of self-defense. And this is actually why most of the people 287 00:17:50,095 --> 00:17:53,878 will actually survive being attacked by a brown bear. Simply 288 00:17:53,918 --> 00:17:57,461 because the bear is trying to eliminate the danger. 289 00:17:57,541 --> 00:18:01,144 And when you are knocked down on the ground or something, after a 290 00:18:01,164 --> 00:18:04,087 while, the bear will actually most of the time abandon the 291 00:18:04,147 --> 00:18:07,990 person there and flee. So what it does from his perception is 292 00:18:08,030 --> 00:18:11,373 that he's trying to eliminate that immediate threat. 293 00:18:17,109 --> 00:18:19,290 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: And if you were to cross paths with a brown 294 00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:20,792 bear, what should you do? 295 00:18:21,532 --> 00:18:23,454 CSABA DOMOKOS: If a bear is approaching you and it has 296 00:18:23,534 --> 00:18:27,697 noticed you, then basically you have to look as unthreatening as 297 00:18:27,737 --> 00:18:31,260 possible. So the first thing should be probably to make the 298 00:18:31,261 --> 00:18:34,584 bear realise that you're a person. And you can talk to him, 299 00:18:35,585 --> 00:18:38,487 not necessarily shouting. You can raise your and move around 300 00:18:38,527 --> 00:18:42,050 your hands so that they actually realize that it's a person. And 301 00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:45,413 most of the time, this would be more than enough to scare it 302 00:18:45,453 --> 00:18:45,733 away. 303 00:18:46,834 --> 00:18:51,758 If an attack happens, generally, you will end up on the floor and 304 00:18:52,298 --> 00:18:56,061 you should lie on your belly and try to protect your neck, you 305 00:18:56,082 --> 00:18:58,023 know, and try to protect your soft side. 306 00:18:58,624 --> 00:19:00,845 And the most important thing probably actually is that you 307 00:19:00,885 --> 00:19:04,208 should walk around with pepper spray, bear specific pepper 308 00:19:04,248 --> 00:19:08,430 spray. These are highly effective. I can really affirm 309 00:19:08,530 --> 00:19:13,093 that that they work. 310 00:19:13,093 --> 00:19:15,094 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: So in terms of keeping ourselves safe from 311 00:19:15,154 --> 00:19:17,516 bears that's obviously you know we've come out into the woods 312 00:19:17,876 --> 00:19:20,898 with our toddler. So that's obviously at the forefront of 313 00:19:20,918 --> 00:19:24,520 our mind. So we're being mindful to kind of make lots of noise. 314 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,401 We've got our bells. 315 00:19:26,401 --> 00:19:29,603 Hebe's great at singing songs and chit-chattering so we're not 316 00:19:29,604 --> 00:19:32,345 going to surprise any bears. But we've also got bear spray with 317 00:19:32,346 --> 00:19:36,347 us as well, should we be charged by a bear. Which we can use just 318 00:19:36,348 --> 00:19:39,109 to give ourselves a little bit of space and breathing room. 319 00:19:39,449 --> 00:19:42,470 CSABA DOMOKOS: I think it really teaches us somehow to walk 320 00:19:42,530 --> 00:19:46,072 around, let's say, in a forest with really all your senses 321 00:19:46,673 --> 00:19:51,936 tuned to the max. And really looking out for movements from 322 00:19:51,937 --> 00:19:56,278 the corner of your eyes or looking out for suspicious 323 00:19:56,358 --> 00:19:57,339 sounds, for example. 324 00:20:00,647 --> 00:20:02,448 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: Maybe we could all learn a little from this 325 00:20:02,508 --> 00:20:05,970 about tuning in and really paying attention to the amazing 326 00:20:06,010 --> 00:20:13,193 nature around us. Even if it's not a 400 kilo apex predator. 327 00:20:16,495 --> 00:20:19,196 I'm getting a little bit excited because Rob stopped and he's got 328 00:20:19,216 --> 00:20:22,118 the binoculars out so I'm hoping he's seen something. Maybe it's 329 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,639 a bear, I don't know. Let's have a look. 330 00:20:28,331 --> 00:20:30,852 So, I might sound a little bit out of breath, because I got 331 00:20:30,892 --> 00:20:34,874 very excited and ran, because Rob got his binoculars out and 332 00:20:34,894 --> 00:20:38,643 started looking up to the top of a tree and I thought maybe it's 333 00:20:38,643 --> 00:20:41,637 bear. Because they are really really nimble climbers despite 334 00:20:41,638 --> 00:20:44,739 their size. They're very good at climbing. And they do spend some 335 00:20:44,779 --> 00:20:48,400 time up in the tops of trees foraging food and sometimes 336 00:20:48,401 --> 00:20:53,603 that's where the cubs go to kind of get out of the way of danger. 337 00:20:53,603 --> 00:20:59,265 So, I very excitedly caught up but it wasn't a bear. But it was 338 00:20:59,785 --> 00:21:01,846 quite an exciting thing nonetheless. 339 00:21:01,846 --> 00:21:05,027 So he spotted a load of Crossbills, which are a really 340 00:21:05,067 --> 00:21:08,809 cool species of finch. They do what they say on the tin, 341 00:21:08,809 --> 00:21:12,330 they've got a crossed over bill. And they're a bird that's 342 00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:17,152 specialized in kind of picking the seeds out of conifer cones, 343 00:21:17,152 --> 00:21:18,713 pine cones, that kind of thing. 344 00:21:18,713 --> 00:21:24,215 So they've evolved and adapted this funny crossed over bill. 345 00:21:24,215 --> 00:21:26,437 And, it's quite exciting to see them. 346 00:21:26,697 --> 00:21:30,581 It's not a species that I see very regularly. We do get them 347 00:21:30,582 --> 00:21:34,784 in the UK, in Scotland, and in places where we've got lots of 348 00:21:34,824 --> 00:21:38,387 conifer plantations, but I don't have much of that around where I 349 00:21:38,407 --> 00:21:42,070 am, so it's quite an unusual species. And there's loads of 350 00:21:42,130 --> 00:21:44,793 them. They're all chattering away up in the top of the tree. 351 00:21:45,053 --> 00:21:48,436 So not a bear, but very exciting nonetheless. 352 00:21:54,843 --> 00:21:58,365 So we've just been reflecting as we wandered through the sunshine 353 00:21:58,505 --> 00:22:01,787 and next to this beautiful little stream that this habitat 354 00:22:01,867 --> 00:22:04,549 here actually feels pretty similar to what we've got in 355 00:22:04,609 --> 00:22:06,110 kind of the northern half of the UK. 356 00:22:08,823 --> 00:22:11,625 It doesn't feel completely alien and completely different. These 357 00:22:11,665 --> 00:22:16,469 rolling hills and steep-sided valleys feel really, really very 358 00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:20,552 familiar. We were remarking that, you know, a thousand years 359 00:22:20,592 --> 00:22:25,516 ago in the UK, we would have had this incredible biodiversity and 360 00:22:25,636 --> 00:22:26,917 different array of species. 361 00:22:26,918 --> 00:22:29,199 You know, we would have had Eurasian brown bears, we would 362 00:22:29,219 --> 00:22:31,901 have had beavers, we would have had wolves. We would have had 363 00:22:32,341 --> 00:22:35,867 all of these species which are now missing from our ecosystems 364 00:22:35,947 --> 00:22:37,608 and you can really feel the difference. 365 00:22:37,648 --> 00:22:41,549 So, here these woods, they're not being actively managed by 366 00:22:41,609 --> 00:22:44,530 people, but because there's all of those different species here, 367 00:22:44,531 --> 00:22:48,071 you know you've got the wild boar crunching up the 368 00:22:48,131 --> 00:22:50,772 undergrowth and moving things around and giving opportunities 369 00:22:50,812 --> 00:22:52,252 for tree seeds to sprout. 370 00:22:52,472 --> 00:22:55,893 We've got big deer species but they're being moved through the 371 00:22:55,894 --> 00:22:59,354 woodland by the wolves and by the bears. There's lynx who are 372 00:22:59,355 --> 00:23:03,303 predating on the smaller deer, everything's kind of... much 373 00:23:03,444 --> 00:23:03,744 more. 374 00:23:03,964 --> 00:23:07,107 I'm not saying it's perfect here because people are everywhere 375 00:23:07,147 --> 00:23:10,010 and people are tinkering with things, but it just feels like 376 00:23:10,210 --> 00:23:13,473 much more wild. And it's kind of a little bit sad really 377 00:23:13,513 --> 00:23:16,876 reflecting that at home, you know, one day it would have been 378 00:23:16,916 --> 00:23:20,259 like this and it's not like that anymore because we've got the 379 00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:26,045 population, the pressures, the numbers of people around and the 380 00:23:26,125 --> 00:23:28,447 changes that we've made to our natural environment. 381 00:23:38,101 --> 00:23:40,202 CSABA DOMOKOS: But still, whenever I see a bear, it 382 00:23:40,203 --> 00:23:42,864 doesn't really matter if it's close or if it's further away, 383 00:23:43,004 --> 00:23:48,347 it's still really a mixture of admiration and this kind of 384 00:23:48,427 --> 00:23:54,590 feeling. And of, well, not necessarily fear, but you 385 00:23:54,871 --> 00:23:58,933 somehow feel that there is something more than you there in 386 00:23:58,934 --> 00:23:59,493 the forest. 387 00:24:00,234 --> 00:24:03,576 You can experience this even without... seeing bears, just 388 00:24:03,596 --> 00:24:07,758 simply knowing that you're in a habitat where there are things 389 00:24:07,798 --> 00:24:10,720 that are stronger and bigger and faster than you. 390 00:24:16,303 --> 00:24:18,464 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: This was the exact feeling I had when we 391 00:24:18,524 --> 00:24:22,066 found the bear print a few days earlier. It's an amazing primal 392 00:24:22,146 --> 00:24:25,088 thrill that spikes your heart rate and fires your adrenaline 393 00:24:25,168 --> 00:24:28,289 through the roof. It's Mother Nature giving you a nudge in the 394 00:24:28,309 --> 00:24:31,031 ribs and saying, remember who's in charge here. 395 00:24:36,281 --> 00:24:40,605 I'm ready for some hot chocolate. It's very hot. Slurp. 396 00:24:49,192 --> 00:24:49,913 Oh Oh Isn't that nice? 397 00:24:49,914 --> 00:24:50,493 HEBE: It's very hot. 398 00:24:50,494 --> 00:24:52,495 ROSIE HOLDSWORTH: We'll let it cool down a bit. Why don't you 399 00:24:52,496 --> 00:24:56,218 put your hands on it and they'll warm up. Oh, that's nice isn't 400 00:24:56,219 --> 00:24:56,338 it? 401 00:25:03,707 --> 00:25:08,331 So we haven't seen bears unfortunately but I have had a 402 00:25:08,451 --> 00:25:12,835 fantastic time in the beautiful beautiful Carpathian Mountains. 403 00:25:13,576 --> 00:25:16,838 Really, really recommend a visit to Transylvania to anyone who's 404 00:25:16,939 --> 00:25:20,261 able to get here. It is an incredible place. The culture, 405 00:25:20,602 --> 00:25:26,006 the people, the wildlife, the mountains, it's fantastic. So, 406 00:25:26,006 --> 00:25:30,510 from me and from the beautiful Transylvanian countryside, see 407 00:25:30,511 --> 00:25:31,151 you next time. 408 00:25:34,935 --> 00:25:38,177 Thank you for listening to this episode of Wild Tales. If you've 409 00:25:38,197 --> 00:25:43,400 enjoyed it, why not give us a follow or a review? And if you'd 410 00:25:43,420 --> 00:25:46,362 like to find out more about the European brown bear in Romania, 411 00:25:46,602 --> 00:25:50,385 then head to the episode show notes. I'm Rosie Holdsworth. 412 00:25:50,985 --> 00:25:51,446 Bye-bye.