Dr. Kay Durairaj 0:06
Well, hello. Hello, guys. You're listening to beauty bites with Dr Kay secrets of a plastic surgeon, and it's time for a podcast. This is going to be a great one, because I need to know about this. You need to know about this. We're interviewing Dr Nick Truby. He is an exercise physiologist and Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist, and he has years of experience. He's going to teach us about the importance of muscle as we enter into menopause and perimenopause, and it's all really science based. He has his PhD from University of Kentucky. He focuses on bone density optimization, which the real reason we want big muscles is we want big bones. And I think this is such a trending and timely topic, everyone probably is having early osteopenia from the their GLP ones. And we need to talk about what's going on with women and muscles. Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 1 1:00
Thank you. Dr Kay, having me appreciate it.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 1:02
So, Nick, have you always worked so closely with muscles and bone density? What kind of brought you into focus on bone density optimization through muscle

Speaker 1 1:11
Absolutely? Yeah, so it has been, especially for the last 20 years or so, this has been my priority of really focusing on this group, specifically, just because it's, you know, when we look at women perimenopause, post menopause, we tend to see if we're not really focusing on maintaining or improving, we tend to see large losses in both bone and muscle mass, which lead to lots of negative health consequences. So it shifting the mindset of what fitness used to look like, or may have looked like for 30 or 40 years to what it can look like to lead you to more robust, energetic adventure living life after 50. You know strength and muscle mass is the is the way to go.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 1:59
So why do you think bone health is still kind of so overlooked, like you people don't really worry about their bones till they get that first exoscan, and it says mild osteopenia. Like I just had one osteopenia in the hips, and I've been doing squats, like 50 squats a day for a year.

Speaker 1 2:17
And to be honest, most of the people I'm that I work with are relatively fit, and I've been exercising for a long period of time, but we do a huge disservice, because the typically, the first any kind of scan or tool to get insight into our bones is not until 60 or 65 years old.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 2:38
Wow. When should it be? When should we get our first excess skin in an ideal world.

Speaker 1 2:42
Ideal world, probably 30 would be a great time, because that is when you get your t score, which we use for indication of osteoporosis. We are relating that to your 30 year old self. That's that with that t score. Oh,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 2:56
so be nice to have an indicator.

Speaker 1 2:58
Pretty great if we could have a number of when we're supposed to have the most, you know, rich, high density bones. It'll be nice to have that number.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 3:06
That's so true. Instead, we get it at age 60 here, at

Speaker 1 3:09
60, usually 65 for most people.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 3:12
Yeah, I got mine a bit early because I was just curious. Because I think if you have a mother or grandmother that has osteoporosis or osteopenia, you should definitely tune in early, like in your 30s and 40s.

Speaker 1 3:23
Absolutely, if you have family history, the earlier the better.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 3:26
Yeah. How connected are muscles to your bones? Bone density, fall prevention?

Speaker 1 3:33
That's a great question. You know, I've seen people who are really fit, endurance wise, so relatively strong, if we look at it from an endurance perspective, but may have low density bone or low bone density in terms of quality and quantity and a lot of factors that go towards that. It could be a fueling issue. It could be an over exercising, under feeding issue. For a long time, maybe that person never reached peak bone density to begin with. And there are physiological adaptations that happen with a lot of endurance training, where our body wants to become efficient, where we can be burning less calories per step, and by doing so, we're essentially reducing the weight of our frame, where we can lose bone mass in that process. So lots of things can happen in that sense. On the flip side, I rarely see someone who has higher amount of muscle mass and has been really focused on building strength and muscle for a long period of time. Very rarely will I see that person have brittle bones. Might have lower density, but quality can be still very good.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 4:40
And then, do you think there's a preference with aerobic exercise, walking versus resistance training? I feel like everyone is talking about muscle heavy lifting, resistance training, but I don't know how easy that is for women and the population in general to really dive. Into it feels intimidating. It feels like I don't know where to start. And also I can't even lift heavy weights yet, you know?

Speaker 1 5:07
Yeah. Well, the approachability of that line lift heavy is not very easily accessible. It can be, yeah, I would say that you were spot on. However, when we think about lifting heavy, it's always going to be relative heavy for someone could be a warm up for somebody else, and vice versa. So I look at it at a perspective of, you know, not so much focusing on the number that you're lifting or moving, we're honing in more so on the level of challenge that we're trying to eventually get to in as part of our workout, and whatever that number is on the weight that you're lifting is just the number, right? So there's some,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 5:45
there's some

Speaker 1 5:46
conditioning that goes on in there. But even in, you know, some of the best studies that we've seen from a bone health perspective that do quote, unquote, lift heavier, still have kind of a fundamental ease up period before they get to that point. So we're still making sure you approach it from let me master some of the techniques of these fundamental movements. Let me understand how my body moves. Let me start with lighter resistance, then gradually work my way up. You know, don't feel like you have to jump straight into in. You know what you're envisioning in your mind of lifting super heavy. Give yourself a little small time period of easing into that, and that will you'll be very thankful in the back end, what's

Dr. Kay Durairaj 6:31
a good startup plan? Because I do think that that is super intimidating, like when I realize I personally need to do strength training, but in my head, I have all these images of women and doing CrossFit and

Speaker 1 6:42
sure,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 6:42
dragging a tractor, just like a

Speaker 1 6:47
drag tracker. Dr, Kay,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 6:49
yeah, I went to the gym with my husband, and he made me do one of those, just such a male centered approach to how to grow muscles, I don't know, but you're being a male and working with lots of women, how do you get women started on that journey, and knowing that we come into a deconditioned having not taken care of ourselves, being like child focused for all this time, some of us now are entering and, of course, into menopausal changes, and some of people are having GLP one changes, which I equate with Advanced aging,

Speaker 1 7:20
for sure.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 7:21
So like, what is the best dip your toe in the water, and is it different for each of those groups? I

Speaker 1 7:27
mean, it can be a little bit different depending on, you know, the severity of, you know, how much are we thinking about a setback or an injury. But realistically, I like to keep things really simple. Because the more simple you can you can make the entire program as a whole. It becomes much more approachable. People can buy in much easier. There's not that level of intimidation. So, you know, movements that can load our bodies appropriately and intentionally are, you know, our squatting exercises. You can start with a chair squat, right up and down out of a chair. Build your technique slowly, progress over many stages to get to the point where you are comfortable. You know, doing it like a goblet squat, maybe where you can challenge yourself. Great data on like a step up exercise, or using maybe a aerobic riser, or maybe a box that the step up and down from. You can do that body weight. You can do it. Do an assisted body weight. You can progress to loaded movements. So it's, you know, nothing is overly intimidating from a movement perspective. It's really just allowing yourself and kind of dropping the ego and or, you know, worry of what it in your mind, thinks it's going to look like and really, really just kind of starting body weight, understanding how your body moves, get your technique down, and then we can really progress slowly, because it's really, it's a duration game, right? We're, we're doing a marathon on a sprint to see bone turnover. It's going to take some time. So there's really no rush, rush to jump into, you know, challenging yourself from a resistance perspective.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 9:06
So,

Speaker 1 9:07
you know, there's, there's easy ways to build some confidence. I found that that the confidence part is the biggest barrier to overcome. Initially,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 9:16
I think if there were, like, a top five or top 10 exercises to start on that are evidence based. What would you say those are

Speaker 1 9:26
definitely so your squat,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 9:28
Okay,

Speaker 1 9:29
step up exercise. The biggest one, that's, I always say, is one of the best exercises for bone health, and the worst exercise for bone health the razor thin line. And that's like your deadlift or your Romanian deadlift movement, just because it's so technique based, and if you're using your body inappropriately, you can put some additional strain on lumbar areas that we might be worried about. If you do it correctly, it targets the body exactly how you want to a farmer's carry or a suitcase carry, where you're carrying something relatively heavy and. Are either walking or marching in place, great way to mechanically load our bodies and see some compression, but do it in a neutral spine supported position. And then the last one that has some really good data from a resistance training perspective, is the overhead shorter press weight over our head. So we're kind of indirectly loading our spine and seeing that vertical acting force that happens through our spine, down through our hips to the floor. Those five you look into the research have really good data for both full body strength, muscle mass and from a bone health perspective, those are really good movements. And on top of that, if you can. And it's just kind of to, you know, have to approach with white gloves. A little bit. Is impact training. I'm not sure if you've heard much data on impact

Dr. Kay Durairaj 10:49
jumping or putting some stress on the bones, yeah,

Speaker 1 10:53
basically, yeah. So it's not the physical, you know, if you look at jumping, there's, there's two parts to the jump, there's the jump up, and then there's the land part of it, and the landing is where we're we're receiving the impact, right? We're going from it, we're accelerating downward to the ground, and we stop abruptly.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 11:08
So that's,

Speaker 1 11:09
that's the part that we really are using from a bone health perspective. It's also a pretty big demand on our physiology, like our soft tissue and our connective tissue and our joints, you know, those areas. So we kind of have to slowly ease our way into it. But from the stimulus that our osteocytes and our bones need to see, that's kind of a top tier category for really, you know, moving the needle in the right

Dr. Kay Durairaj 11:33
direction. Yeah, I've been reading a lot about jumping and how a double jump is better than a single jump. Can you talk about that?

Speaker 1 11:40
Potentially, I think there's value in both. I think the double jump allows for a little bit more time as far as in practicing kind of your landing compared to that single jump. If it's a higher jump, a more intense jump, it is a pretty abrupt stop, right? So you're you might see six to seven or more times body weight, which that's obviously exceeds the threshold that we need, but it could potentially be more than enough for a lot of people. The double jump gives you a little bit of leeway of those compressive forces, because you're diminishing some of those through soft tissue and tendon elasticity from that first landing to the second jump. If that makes sense,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 12:29
it does make sense. And when you talk about step up, do you how big is the step up? Can it be like a six inch step up? Should it be a one foot, two foot?

Speaker 1 12:39
Great question. Yeah. I get this question all the time. Ideally, if you're looking at it from really loading and targeting like femoral head and femoral neck, right? That's the when you get your EdEx a scan, that's the number you're going to see. The greater the range of motion, typically, the better, right? And that usually means somewhere around when you're when your foot is on the box, stepping up your knee and your hip are around 90 degrees. Now you have to be a little leery, because that is difficult. So if this is a challenging movement, there's absolutely nothing wrong with starting at maybe a six or an eight inch step, something closer to like the stairs in your house.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 13:15
Yeah,

Speaker 1 13:16
just to get a feel for is it putting too much stress on my patellar or my knee, or is my hip getting taxed too much, or whatever. So I always recommend start with a comfortable lower box. Get a feel for it. If your body responds well to it, you tolerate it well, you can slowly bump that height up a little bit.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 13:32
I do hear a lot of my female clients telling me that they're exercising, but they're not able to gain muscle or so their work effort is not translating into things they see is that just from protein deficit or just bad training or reps,

Speaker 1 13:48
it could be potentially both. I mean, the fueling component is definitely going to have an influence on your capacity to improve strength.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 13:56
Yeah, if you

Speaker 1 13:57
look at it from a training side, really to start influencing strength, we need somewhere around, you know, at least 70% of your one repetition maximum that you're lifting. So that would be like, you know, if I said, Hey, Dr, Kay, let's do a let's do a squat, you would choose a weight that you could do maybe 12 times, but you'd be almost ready to be like done after that, right? So taxing yourself enough to challenge that level of strength to improve?

Dr. Kay Durairaj 14:29
Yeah, okay, that's perfect. I think that also menopause has different demands on the body. How do you advise your patients that are in the peri state, and perimenopause starts early these days at like 3540 and then how do you advise differently for actual full on menopause?

Speaker 1 14:50
For sure? Yeah, I think both, both populations, you can kind of take a similar approach, especially if they don't have much experience resistance training. And or impact training. And it kind of goes back to what I mentioned before. Is that we, you know, taking a step back to those fundamental movements of of you know, how can I do those movements, body weight? Can I teach the breathing, the correct breathing strategies for these to maintain intra abdominal pressure and support my spine going through these ranges of motion, right? Can I prepare my body, maybe even using like a tabletop or a quadruped position where you're doing like your your hip circles and your bird dog movements, just to kind of teach how to move around my body while maintaining that neutral spine, right? Very fundamental movements that have a lot of

Dr. Kay Durairaj 15:37
value,

Speaker 1 15:38
even in more advanced clients that I work with, I always have a phase of, let's take it back to the fundamentals so I can see how well you can do these. Then I feel more comfortable with how aggressively we can progress, if that makes sense. So, you know, just taking a step back to evaluate from, I don't want to say easier, but a lighter overall domain, on your body. And from that, a person that knows what they're doing can have a better idea of how much to tax you moving forward,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 16:08
yeah, but if, like, physically, the exercise don't need to be different at one stage of life or another, really, right? Just yeah, your baseline,

Speaker 1 16:17
most of those movements are ones that we have to be able to do just to have any kind of capacity in our daily lives. Now, there's different modifications and variations of those exercises you can use so challenge those body parts and muscles that we're trying to engage. But realistically, the exercises you know, it's it's not smoke and mirrors. It's not overly fancy. It's just, it's kind of the basics that have the biggest value.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 16:46
As I see aging parents happening, I kind of want to think about what exercise I should do now to prevent the frailty issues that I've seen in my own family and all of my patients too. Actually, I see that they come in and they have trouble getting out of a chair, that upper body strength, that they also can't, you know, pull themselves up. So like, Are there couple of dedicated things we should do in our 50s and 60s to make sure that when we're 70 and 80, we have the ability to not be so frail and to have mobility

Speaker 1 17:20
absolutely, yeah, I think, you know, a lot of that goes to the rate of decline is much quicker once we get, you know, in our sixth decade of life and after compared to our third decade. So making sure that we have a certain level of consistency. I think number one is the underlying, most important aspect of any program is that we have to continue to show our bodies that stimulus.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 17:48
If

Speaker 1 17:48
we stop, even for, you know, two, three months at a time, we can really see drastic changes. So, you know, making sure it's a part of a routine that you can maintain and do and have sustainability. That's, there's a lot of value there, but that sit to stand test always a great test. I use it quite a bit because it does give you a lot of insight to lower body strength and power. And I think I'm just actually so funny you brought that up because I'm reading a study right now about the importance of training, especially after 60 the element of power, and that's just your capacity to move things quickly, and how it engages our nervous system in that really goes along with as we age, that rate of decline is much quicker than previously, so making sure we can still move things quickly,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 18:35
yeah? Like, slow pushing up is not as effective, like it shows deterioration of strength a bit it

Speaker 1 18:41
can, yeah, yeah. So slower movement is great, because you can really lock in and have focus on what your body is doing, being able to, you know, stand up quickly or press that dumbbell overhead quickly. Those things are so important from a nervous system approach and being able to engage our muscles quickly to navigate, you know, all the challenges of our everyday movements.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 19:06
Talk a little bit about the glps, because they're an epidemic in California. Oh, good. We're getting metabolically healthy, but the first generation glps People thought that they attacked muscle mass. And really, the studies that I have read don't show that. They show that the muscle loss is related to calorie deficit and protein deficit and lack of training. And what are your thoughts on it?

Speaker 1 19:34
You know, I haven't had a lot of exposure to the people I work with. Realistically, most of my clients are are underweight to begin with,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 19:44
which is

Speaker 1 19:45
kind of interesting, which always makes me question, are we even reaching peak bone mass in general? Right? You know, having that 30 year old Nexus game would be fantastic, from my perspective, and if we could promote that, yeah. Um, but yeah, most, 90% of the clients that I work with have been kind of undersized most of their life and are now seeing in real time. You know, has that had any any influence or not? I don't know, but their their bone mass is less than optimal.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 20:16
Yeah, I haven't seen a lot of studies looking at DEXA scans for people beginning and ending their GLP or staying on it for a bit of a duration, but I'm pretty sure it's going to show osteopenia and early changes. So you should definitely help us come up with a strategy for absolutely it's exercise and be consistent. But

Speaker 1 20:38
that's the key part. Is, you know, you might see it more than me, but you know, how much are we taxing our bodies, from a physical perspective, while we're on that medication? You know, I don't know. It's probably less, because the ones that are attracted to that method might not be already exercising as much. I don't, you know, I'm speaking in generalizations here, but

Dr. Kay Durairaj 20:59
yeah, I think that's exactly right. But some people that are starting glps Now, we are adverse, we're telling them, and we're teaching them to start resistance strength training. So, you know, would there be a a proper way to start that, or is it just go, go get a trainer and go to the gym?

Speaker 1 21:17
Yeah, I think that's going to be helpful. But even then, if you're kind of on your own, just kind of going at a full body approach, making sure we're, you know, not resorting back to which there's nothing wrong with it, because there's great results from, like, split routines. But I found that it's very difficult to if you're going to go in and do, like, arms on Monday and legs on Tuesday, and, you know, it's very difficult to accrue enough overall volume for each body part to really make a difference. You have the time and dedication to really, you know, go on, and

Dr. Kay Durairaj 21:51
one of the problems is you lose body mass, you know. So if you're getting less body mass in general, and your muscles and bones are carrying less weight. That's already like a negative reinforcement cycle for

Dr. Kay Durairaj 22:06
sure.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 22:07
Yeah, we're

Speaker 1 22:09
not expect, not exactly in an anabolic state on a medication like that. So I think it's more protective mechanism. I think the word you can use of trying to limit the amount of loss while still keeping a robust nervous system to be able to engage your muscles.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 22:24
What does the research show right now about protein and what's the levels are that we should be taking for optimal muscle health?

Speaker 1 22:32
That's a great question. And if you look at the governmental standards, those are very low.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 22:37
I

Dr. Kay Durairaj 22:38
think

Speaker 1 22:38
that what the US government is saying it's point eight grams per kilogram body weight, which that is like probably less than half of what you should be eating right most of the time. If we're really trying to prioritize strength and bone mass, we're probably closer to one pound or one one gram per pound of ideal body weight.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 23:00
So gram per pound. Wow,

Speaker 1 23:03
it's a lot. 20

Dr. Kay Durairaj 23:05
grams in a day,

Speaker 1 23:06
that is a lot. But realistically, if you're, you know, a medium, moderate sized female, maybe 120 to 150 pounds. If you can get over 100 grams of protein a day, you're doing really. Well,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 23:20
damn, that's a lot,

Speaker 1 23:21
a lot.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 23:22
Yeah, so you're really having to protein load every time you eat. So

Speaker 1 23:27
realistically, 30 to 35 grams every meal. It's an easy way to kind of, you know, I always try to say, hey, we master one meal at a time, just to hone in on, you know, what are we choosing and how are we putting things together? But because ideally, you're both resistance training, which requires protein just to recover and accrue additional muscle mass, also protein. Because our our bones are living organisms, they require protein for for both deconstruction and construction. So you're making sure you have enough on hand, and if you overshoot it a little bit, then you know, at least we know you've had

Dr. Kay Durairaj 24:04
enough. Yeah, that's definitely tough for bone health. Are there recommended vitamins we used to be like, All About drink your milk and calcium for the bones? What is, what are the new, current recommendations?

Speaker 1 24:16
It's, it's not, you know, from a the current medical system, that's pretty much what we're still being told, you know, in terms of vitamin vitamin D and calcium and those types of simple things. Everybody kind of has their own perspective on this. I don't dive a ton into it. I kind of refer that to, you know, a physician, or maybe someone else that's, you know, a nutrition based person that that dies into that question. But I don't think it's much different as far as the current recommendations as they were 10 or 15 years ago.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 24:52
That, yeah, that makes sense in terms of, like, any myths about bones and bone density that you've. Heard that you want to retire about bones?

Speaker 1 25:04
Yeah, I think most people think of their bones as a nonliving thing. So once they've lost their bone, it's, you know, I think education is becoming much more robust around this, but many people think that they're not able to change it, that they're not dynamic enough to change, and that's absolutely not true, and it's regardless of age, because I've got women that are close to, if not, 80 years older or older, and we've seen positive changes. So the bone is very much a dynamic living tissue, and we just have to make sure we're intentionally targeting and meeting ourselves where we are with our fitness to influence it to go in the right direction. Yeah, I think people do think they're just born with a set of bones and they are with their but they they wither away, and then you can build it back. Yeah, yeah, there's two specific cells. One is, I kind of think of it as the you know that when you do that, let's say you're going to redo your kitchen, you have the destruction crew come in. They blow up the kitchen, and the construction crew comes in and fixes it well, your your bones are doing that

Dr. Kay Durairaj 26:12
every

Dr. Kay Durairaj 26:13
day, yeah, break down and remodel and build back up

Speaker 1 26:16
exactly. And both are healthy. They both have to happen to have a strong, a strong, a strong bone.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 26:22
Any thoughts on posture? I do think that that's also a issue that we should work on when we're always so forward, downward facing and getting tech, you know, tech concerns?

Speaker 1 26:34
Yeah, posture can definitely be influential, because we, especially from an exercising perspective, we need to be strong enough to maintain specific postures to be able to load our body appropriately to see change, right? I like to look at posture on, you know, the other 23 and a half hours that we're not exercising, right, making sure we're moving our bodies throughout the day enough, because even if we have quote, unquote great posture, we're we're still fatiguing the muscles. Yeah, yeah. So from a posture perspective, you know, if we spend too much time in one position, it we overwork those muscles to where we can essentially, at some point, we'll see some negative things happening, whether it's muscle soreness or pain or or just over reliance on a certain body posture that our body refers to all the time. So there's a lot of value in making sure throughout the day you're just changing your body position as much as you can, which also helps us stay more active in general.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 27:30
Yeah, they're they're saying that sitting is the new smoking. So

Speaker 1 27:34
I can imagine,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 27:35
yeah. So you got to get out of your chair and be doing some mobility work all all day loss. Um, well, this has been so interesting. I know you also do your own podcast. What's the name of your podcast?

Speaker 1 27:46
It's called the bone health blueprint.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 27:49
And if people wanted to reach out to find you, you also have an online training platform, and Truby. It's called Truby health.

Speaker 1 27:59
Truby Health com is a great website to get kind of the low down, and all the ways that you can engage and work with me. And then also Instagram. There's always Instagram. Dr, Nick Truby,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 28:09
well, you're out there motivating people. So I came across your content and I was, I thought, I need to talk to him. He's motivating.

Speaker 1 28:15
It's always good to hear some positive feedback.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 28:20
Yeah, I think our we're told a lot to work on strength training, resistance training, it's this extremely intimidating process, and also you just need to start. So someone tells me, like the top five exercises I need to just bust out. I can handle that.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 28:35
Yeah,

Speaker 1 28:36
for sure, yeah. And just approaching it with, you know, from a perspective of, you know, not having to master it right away, right? I think there's a lot of stress and feeling we had to be perfect all the time. So give yourself a little time and a little grace to ease your way into it. And I think that's there's a lot of value in just building confidence, in realizing that what your body is still capable of achieving, regardless of where your level is currently. I think what follows with that is a lot of gratitude and motivation to continue.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 29:09
That's great. Nick, tell us your Instagram handle and where people can reach out or email you

Speaker 1 29:15
absolutely. D, R, dot. Nick, N, I, C, K, Ruby, t, r, u, B, E,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 29:23
that's on the gram.

Speaker 1 29:24
It's on the gram. You're right.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 29:26
Okay, perfect. Well, I thank you so much for joining us. I learned a lot about bones and muscles today, and I think that's going to be my focus for this year. Going forward, I want everybody out there also thinking about it. And boy, we have a lot of protein to eat at every meal.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 29:41
Some

Speaker 1 29:42
time, it's not going to be a perfect transition. Slowly get there,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 29:46
that's right. It's a process. That's it for now, guys, don't forget to find me on my instagram. It's Beauty by Dr Kay, D, R, K, a, y, where we're doing amazing things with faces, health, longevity and wellness. And you can find our amazing skincare at B, at our. Kay.com it's a peptide skin care line. Peptides are all the rage, and we're going to do more podcasts on that, peptides that are used for muscle changes as well. So much interesting research out there. That's it for now. Guys, stay beautiful. Bye.

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