1
00:00:00,420 --> 00:00:03,150
Page 94: the Private Eye Podcast

2
00:00:03,925 --> 00:00:05,235
hello, everybody, and welcome to

3
00:00:05,469 --> 00:00:06,119
episode of

4
00:00:06,489 --> 00:00:07,160
94.

5
00:00:07,409 --> 00:00:07,969
My name's Andrew

6
00:00:08,145 --> 00:00:08,415
Murray,

7
00:00:08,459 --> 00:00:11,539
I'm here in the iStudio with
Helen Lewis, Adam McQueen, and

8
00:00:11,559 --> 00:00:12,279
Ian Hislop.

9
00:00:12,739 --> 00:00:14,019
I'm gonna start off by saying to you

10
00:00:14,029 --> 00:00:14,359
all,

11
00:00:15,319 --> 00:00:15,649
Hey.

12
00:00:16,049 --> 00:00:16,519
Hey.

13
00:00:16,559 --> 00:00:17,629
hey And I say

14
00:00:17,669 --> 00:00:18,579
Hay because we're going

15
00:00:18,635 --> 00:00:18,925
the Hay

16
00:00:18,929 --> 00:00:20,149
Festival.

17
00:00:20,419 --> 00:00:22,409
We have a live Page 94.

18
00:00:22,809 --> 00:00:22,969
That

19
00:00:23,129 --> 00:00:23,369
was

20
00:00:23,369 --> 00:00:24,079
the cheesiest yeah,

21
00:00:24,139 --> 00:00:24,559
think.

22
00:00:24,565 --> 00:00:24,695
I

23
00:00:24,699 --> 00:00:25,149
liked

24
00:00:25,149 --> 00:00:25,419
it.

25
00:00:25,419 --> 00:00:25,479
yeah.

26
00:00:25,669 --> 00:00:26,619
you would ... I'm gonna

27
00:00:26,745 --> 00:00:27,135
old time.

28
00:00:27,135 --> 00:00:27,295
Yeah.

29
00:00:28,219 --> 00:00:29,149
we're doing a live

30
00:00:29,149 --> 00:00:29,409
event

31
00:00:29,489 --> 00:00:29,929
the Hay

32
00:00:29,929 --> 00:00:31,489
Festival, which is

33
00:00:31,536 --> 00:00:32,226
easy commute

34
00:00:32,312 --> 00:00:34,302
from anywhere in the United Kingdom.

35
00:00:34,442 --> 00:00:36,032
Incredibly fast.

36
00:00:36,113 --> 00:00:36,917
Yes, we're gonna be

37
00:00:36,917 --> 00:00:37,617
setting the world

38
00:00:37,617 --> 00:00:37,727
to

39
00:00:37,727 --> 00:00:38,177
rights, as

40
00:00:38,198 --> 00:00:38,758
we always

41
00:00:38,758 --> 00:00:39,488
do, but this time

42
00:00:39,557 --> 00:00:39,837
be doing

43
00:00:39,837 --> 00:00:40,267
it live.

44
00:00:40,887 --> 00:00:41,037
so

45
00:00:41,037 --> 00:00:42,017
that is gonna be on

46
00:00:42,017 --> 00:00:42,287
the

47
00:00:42,367 --> 00:00:42,987
27th

48
00:00:42,987 --> 00:00:43,217
of May.

49
00:00:43,604 --> 00:00:44,364
What day was that?

50
00:00:44,737 --> 00:00:45,067
27th

51
00:00:45,067 --> 00:00:45,417
of

52
00:00:45,417 --> 00:00:45,777
May.

53
00:00:45,906 --> 00:00:46,646
that a Wednesday

54
00:00:46,713 --> 00:00:46,963
by any

55
00:00:46,963 --> 00:00:47,393
chance?

56
00:00:47,496 --> 00:00:47,826
I believe

57
00:00:47,857 --> 00:00:47,927
it

58
00:00:47,927 --> 00:00:48,317
is.

59
00:00:48,536 --> 00:00:49,856
And what time would that be, Andy?

60
00:00:50,286 --> 00:00:51,316
Oh, early evening.

61
00:00:52,053 --> 00:00:52,203
evening.

62
00:00:52,916 --> 00:00:53,746
Just turn up whenever.

63
00:00:55,256 --> 00:00:56,366
7:30, I think.

64
00:00:56,896 --> 00:00:57,346
But it might be,

65
00:00:57,346 --> 00:00:58,896
6:30. So cut that

66
00:00:58,923 --> 00:00:59,403
I think.

67
00:00:59,403 --> 00:00:59,513
we

68
00:00:59,513 --> 00:00:59,843
should

69
00:01:00,236 --> 00:01:00,616
find

70
00:01:00,637 --> 00:01:00,987
out.

71
00:01:01,177 --> 00:01:01,557
to be fair, they

72
00:01:01,557 --> 00:01:03,797
can't do it without us, so
if we only turn up at 7:30.

73
00:01:03,797 --> 00:01:03,917
Yeah.

74
00:01:04,407 --> 00:01:04,667
Hang on

75
00:01:05,482 --> 00:01:07,232
7:00.  Phew.

76
00:01:07,432 --> 00:01:07,842
Neither of

77
00:01:07,873 --> 00:01:08,273
the ones that

78
00:01:08,273 --> 00:01:08,823
we completely

79
00:01:08,899 --> 00:01:09,609
suggested could be correct.

80
00:01:10,257 --> 00:01:10,872
And all

81
00:01:10,872 --> 00:01:11,562
four of us are doing

82
00:01:11,562 --> 00:01:12,522
separate events around

83
00:01:12,522 --> 00:01:12,732
Hay.

84
00:01:12,752 --> 00:01:13,622
So also on

85
00:01:13,642 --> 00:01:15,002
27th, Ian, you're gonna be

86
00:01:15,062 --> 00:01:16,802
interviewed, by Paddy O'Connell.

87
00:01:16,928 --> 00:01:17,288
Yes.

88
00:01:17,288 --> 00:01:17,368
And

89
00:01:17,368 --> 00:01:18,098
I'm gonna be talking

90
00:01:18,098 --> 00:01:18,538
about

91
00:01:19,238 --> 00:01:20,318
my favorite books

92
00:01:20,331 --> 00:01:21,551
that have influenced

93
00:01:21,598 --> 00:01:21,758
my

94
00:01:21,758 --> 00:01:22,178
life

95
00:01:22,178 --> 00:01:24,028
and it says career, but I

96
00:01:24,028 --> 00:01:24,528
think that might

97
00:01:24,528 --> 00:01:24,678
be

98
00:01:25,051 --> 00:01:25,281
it.

99
00:01:25,457 --> 00:01:25,557
it.

100
00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:26,900
Adam, you're

101
00:01:26,930 --> 00:01:27,350
doing an event,

102
00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:27,620
also

103
00:01:27,650 --> 00:01:28,950
the 27th, about tribalism in

104
00:01:28,950 --> 00:01:29,630
politics.

105
00:01:29,660 --> 00:01:32,030
Apparently with Penny
Mordaunt and Guto Hari.

106
00:01:32,260 --> 00:01:32,580
Wow.

107
00:01:32,637 --> 00:01:33,207
together at last.

108
00:01:33,207 --> 00:01:33,377
Will

109
00:01:33,377 --> 00:01:33,807
you be carrying a

110
00:01:33,807 --> 00:01:34,037
big

111
00:01:34,037 --> 00:01:34,487
sword?

112
00:01:34,517 --> 00:01:34,607
I

113
00:01:34,607 --> 00:01:34,927
will.

114
00:01:34,990 --> 00:01:35,240
Yeah.

115
00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:35,780
Yeah, we all have to.

116
00:01:35,780 --> 00:01:36,040
Excellent.

117
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:36,210
That's

118
00:01:36,260 --> 00:01:36,360
That's

119
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:36,930
contractual,

120
00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:37,060
yeah.

121
00:01:37,740 --> 00:01:38,120
Helen,

122
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:38,210
you're

123
00:01:38,210 --> 00:01:38,910
gonna be- talking about

124
00:01:38,910 --> 00:01:39,410
America

125
00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:40,280
250.

126
00:01:40,410 --> 00:01:40,720
I've got

127
00:01:40,740 --> 00:01:41,100
a really

128
00:01:41,507 --> 00:01:41,697
panel.

129
00:01:41,860 --> 00:01:42,830
They're all just so much

130
00:01:42,857 --> 00:01:43,517
more impressive than

131
00:01:43,530 --> 00:01:43,690
than me.

132
00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:44,090
What is it?

133
00:01:44,090 --> 00:01:47,610
The hemi-semi-sesquipali-centenary
of America or

134
00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:47,970
something.

135
00:01:47,970 --> 00:01:49,260
Semi- There's some complicated word

136
00:01:49,260 --> 00:01:49,730
that means

137
00:01:49,750 --> 00:01:50,540
250 years.

138
00:01:50,540 --> 00:01:51,040
250.

139
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:51,340
years.

140
00:01:51,370 --> 00:01:52,050
Fantastic.

141
00:01:52,790 --> 00:01:53,360
and I'll

142
00:01:53,390 --> 00:01:53,660
be doing

143
00:01:53,660 --> 00:01:54,060
an event on

144
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:54,870
26th

145
00:01:55,090 --> 00:01:57,200
at 2:30 PM about my new book.

146
00:01:57,230 --> 00:01:57,350
Have

147
00:01:57,380 --> 00:01:58,060
you got a new book

148
00:01:58,060 --> 00:01:58,090
out,

149
00:01:58,340 --> 00:01:58,390
I've

150
00:01:58,390 --> 00:01:58,550
got a

151
00:01:58,550 --> 00:01:59,120
new book out.

152
00:01:59,120 --> 00:01:59,430
Is that

153
00:01:59,430 --> 00:02:01,010
available to pre-order by any chance?

154
00:02:01,010 --> 00:02:01,580
Do you know?

155
00:02:01,620 --> 00:02:01,760
I

156
00:02:01,770 --> 00:02:02,530
think it is.

157
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:03,040
Great news.

158
00:02:03,106 --> 00:02:03,793
I thought we didn't

159
00:02:03,849 --> 00:02:04,099
read

160
00:02:04,099 --> 00:02:05,779
out adverts on this podcast.

161
00:02:05,779 --> 00:02:06,279
Only for us, though.

162
00:02:06,293 --> 00:02:06,353
I'm

163
00:02:06,369 --> 00:02:06,709
sorry,

164
00:02:06,709 --> 00:02:06,859
yeah.

165
00:02:06,903 --> 00:02:07,573
There's been

166
00:02:07,573 --> 00:02:08,073
a change of

167
00:02:08,113 --> 00:02:08,563
policy.

168
00:02:09,013 --> 00:02:09,523
can I point

169
00:02:09,523 --> 00:02:09,863
out my

170
00:02:10,103 --> 00:02:11,213
available for pre-order as well?

171
00:02:11,323 --> 00:02:11,493
Yeah.

172
00:02:11,579 --> 00:02:11,819
plug ever.

173
00:02:11,912 --> 00:02:12,812
corner ends.

174
00:02:12,842 --> 00:02:12,932
Yeah.

175
00:02:12,962 --> 00:02:13,212
And

176
00:02:13,238 --> 00:02:13,609
now,

177
00:02:14,109 --> 00:02:16,743
from one, exciting race between four very

178
00:02:16,743 --> 00:02:17,863
dynamic candidates,

179
00:02:17,863 --> 00:02:18,023
only

180
00:02:18,042 --> 00:02:19,822
one of whom is a woman, we move to Labor

181
00:02:20,030 --> 00:02:20,100
How

182
00:02:20,100 --> 00:02:21,190
was that?

183
00:02:21,202 --> 00:02:22,222
That

184
00:02:22,222 --> 00:02:22,392
was

185
00:02:22,393 --> 00:02:22,713
that?

186
00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:23,160
Brilliant.

187
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:23,750
That

188
00:02:23,750 --> 00:02:23,920
was

189
00:02:23,922 --> 00:02:24,102
good.

190
00:02:24,377 --> 00:02:24,562
why

191
00:02:24,648 --> 00:02:25,238
we have to do this?

192
00:02:25,238 --> 00:02:26,298
Why is this all going on now?

193
00:02:26,435 --> 00:02:26,595
Thing

194
00:02:26,614 --> 00:02:27,083
is, I'm

195
00:02:27,083 --> 00:02:27,923
black pilled about this.

196
00:02:27,953 --> 00:02:28,073
I

197
00:02:28,073 --> 00:02:28,293
don't

198
00:02:28,293 --> 00:02:28,823
think any of these

199
00:02:28,994 --> 00:02:31,554
are gonna make any difference
to the intractable problems

200
00:02:31,554 --> 00:02:32,414
we've got In our, our...

201
00:02:32,504 --> 00:02:33,314
So I'm just going to,

202
00:02:33,813 --> 00:02:34,263
just going to

203
00:02:34,270 --> 00:02:35,390
enjoy them knifing

204
00:02:35,524 --> 00:02:35,774
other.

205
00:02:36,309 --> 00:02:37,119
the

206
00:02:37,124 --> 00:02:37,964
assures that, that it?

207
00:02:38,244 --> 00:02:38,564
doesn't

208
00:02:38,564 --> 00:02:39,004
matter

209
00:02:39,104 --> 00:02:39,494
really That's a

210
00:02:39,634 --> 00:02:39,834
Game

211
00:02:39,834 --> 00:02:40,304
of Thrones

212
00:02:40,304 --> 00:02:40,404
and

213
00:02:40,404 --> 00:02:41,024
Succession

214
00:02:41,044 --> 00:02:42,014
viewer right there, isn't it?

215
00:02:42,014 --> 00:02:42,184
But

216
00:02:42,304 --> 00:02:42,544
know what I

217
00:02:42,544 --> 00:02:42,674
mean.

218
00:02:42,674 --> 00:02:43,664
It's really quite sad.

219
00:02:43,844 --> 00:02:44,984
I think they've got some very

220
00:02:44,994 --> 00:02:45,374
large

221
00:02:45,374 --> 00:02:46,294
problems in, Britain,

222
00:02:46,414 --> 00:02:49,544
but, if you look at the difference,
between... K- Keir Starmer obviously now

223
00:02:49,544 --> 00:02:51,204
drained of all authority.

224
00:02:51,814 --> 00:02:52,204
Angela

225
00:02:52,234 --> 00:02:53,014
Rayner did a very

226
00:02:53,214 --> 00:02:53,494
odd,

227
00:02:54,604 --> 00:02:57,394
mini manifesto where she said
she wanted to end freehold.

228
00:02:57,869 --> 00:02:59,479
Which is not really that possible, like

229
00:02:59,525 --> 00:03:00,415
people owning homes.

230
00:03:00,419 --> 00:03:00,579
Okay.

231
00:03:01,299 --> 00:03:01,519
Andy

232
00:03:01,554 --> 00:03:02,084
Burnham gave an

233
00:03:02,084 --> 00:03:02,324
interview

234
00:03:02,399 --> 00:03:04,279
the New Statesman last year ahead
of conference, in which he said,

235
00:03:04,279 --> 00:03:05,429
"I w- I will do more borrowing.

236
00:03:05,429 --> 00:03:09,009
I won't be cowed by the bond markets."
Last person who said that was-

237
00:03:09,384 --> 00:03:11,164
There's Liz Truss ... Liz

238
00:03:11,365 --> 00:03:11,535
great.

239
00:03:11,535 --> 00:03:12,055
And also the

240
00:03:12,055 --> 00:03:12,465
phrase,

241
00:03:12,465 --> 00:03:13,075
we can't be in

242
00:03:13,075 --> 00:03:14,385
Hock to

243
00:03:14,385 --> 00:03:14,445
the

244
00:03:14,445 --> 00:03:16,385
bond markets." Hock is what you

245
00:03:16,385 --> 00:03:16,825
are-

246
00:03:16,825 --> 00:03:17,145
Yeah

247
00:03:17,179 --> 00:03:17,389
if

248
00:03:17,389 --> 00:03:17,689
you,

249
00:03:18,465 --> 00:03:18,785
go

250
00:03:18,785 --> 00:03:19,845
for more borrowing.

251
00:03:20,045 --> 00:03:20,245
It was a

252
00:03:20,605 --> 00:03:20,795
very

253
00:03:20,795 --> 00:03:23,115
strange idea that I don't want to be,

254
00:03:24,085 --> 00:03:27,625
responsible for borrowing a lot,
and then have the people I've

255
00:03:27,715 --> 00:03:28,995
borrowed off asking for the money

256
00:03:28,995 --> 00:03:29,255
back.

257
00:03:30,315 --> 00:03:30,425
it

258
00:03:30,434 --> 00:03:30,734
doesn't

259
00:03:30,734 --> 00:03:31,094
work like that.

260
00:03:31,094 --> 00:03:31,514
Yeah, you don't

261
00:03:31,514 --> 00:03:31,634
get

262
00:03:31,634 --> 00:03:32,484
to pick what interest

263
00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:33,009
people

264
00:03:33,009 --> 00:03:33,589
are charging you

265
00:03:33,589 --> 00:03:34,139
on your money, I'm

266
00:03:34,139 --> 00:03:34,439
afraid.

267
00:03:34,879 --> 00:03:36,219
So then we've got Wes Streeting.

268
00:03:36,649 --> 00:03:36,699
We've

269
00:03:36,699 --> 00:03:37,059
got Wes

270
00:03:37,059 --> 00:03:37,389
"
Streeting.

271
00:03:37,389 --> 00:03:37,849
I don't know if he

272
00:03:37,934 --> 00:03:38,404
said anything.

273
00:03:38,434 --> 00:03:38,764
Oh,

274
00:03:38,949 --> 00:03:39,419
actually,

275
00:03:39,449 --> 00:03:40,239
he came... So he

276
00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:41,969
immediately, He, resigned from the

277
00:03:41,969 --> 00:03:42,409
cabinet,

278
00:03:43,419 --> 00:03:43,989
resigned his house.

279
00:03:44,249 --> 00:03:45,379
said, "I've had an amazing time.

280
00:03:45,379 --> 00:03:46,159
We've got waiting list

281
00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:46,779
downs, but that's

282
00:03:46,805 --> 00:03:46,885
it.

283
00:03:46,885 --> 00:03:47,855
I'm leaving." Yeah.

284
00:03:47,899 --> 00:03:48,409
always go out on a

285
00:03:48,409 --> 00:03:48,889
high note.

286
00:03:49,119 --> 00:03:49,329
And then

287
00:03:49,329 --> 00:03:51,579
he went to the Progress conference
and said, "By the way, I'd

288
00:03:51,579 --> 00:03:51,849
love us

289
00:03:51,849 --> 00:03:52,789
to rejoin the

290
00:03:52,789 --> 00:03:52,949
EU."

291
00:03:53,744 --> 00:03:54,314
Very funny,

292
00:03:55,009 --> 00:03:55,349
you have to be

293
00:03:55,349 --> 00:03:56,259
quite steeped in Labour

294
00:03:56,259 --> 00:03:56,399
law

295
00:03:56,399 --> 00:03:57,819
to understand why this is so funny, which

296
00:03:57,819 --> 00:03:58,999
I, I understand

297
00:03:59,035 --> 00:03:59,435
that some people

298
00:03:59,499 --> 00:04:00,289
have lives and

299
00:04:00,289 --> 00:04:02,069
fulfilling personal time.

300
00:04:02,909 --> 00:04:05,699
the Labour membership are mustard

301
00:04:05,699 --> 00:04:06,129
keen on the

302
00:04:06,129 --> 00:04:06,439
EU.

303
00:04:06,469 --> 00:04:07,459
They absolutely love it.

304
00:04:07,729 --> 00:04:08,679
So when Keir Starmer was

305
00:04:08,679 --> 00:04:09,029
running in

306
00:04:09,029 --> 00:04:14,382
2020 he said, "I will basically be
continuity Corbynism, love that guy, but I

307
00:04:14,417 --> 00:04:15,477
think we could have done a bit more on

308
00:04:15,509 --> 00:04:16,189
antisemitism,

309
00:04:16,342 --> 00:04:17,052
plus I'm much more

310
00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:18,249
keen on Europe than he is."

311
00:04:18,562 --> 00:04:21,422
'
Cause he knew this was the way
it was safe to dissent from

312
00:04:21,422 --> 00:04:22,692
the leadership line in a way

313
00:04:22,692 --> 00:04:25,242
that the members who were
generally very pro-Corbyn

314
00:04:25,242 --> 00:04:25,642
liked.

315
00:04:26,422 --> 00:04:26,842
Streeting has done

316
00:04:26,842 --> 00:04:27,592
exactly the same.

317
00:04:27,822 --> 00:04:30,222
I know you think I'm all in,
I'm incredibly right-wing

318
00:04:30,542 --> 00:04:32,412
for a Labour person, but by

319
00:04:32,507 --> 00:04:33,097
the Lord, I

320
00:04:33,097 --> 00:04:33,327
love

321
00:04:33,372 --> 00:04:34,152
EU, right?

322
00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:34,929
It

323
00:04:34,947 --> 00:04:35,187
also

324
00:04:35,332 --> 00:04:35,432
this

325
00:04:35,432 --> 00:04:36,412
secondary, excellently

326
00:04:36,412 --> 00:04:38,672
funny effect of stuffing Andy Burnham, who

327
00:04:38,672 --> 00:04:39,142
will never

328
00:04:39,342 --> 00:04:40,262
be asked whether or not He

329
00:04:40,262 --> 00:04:40,542
thinks

330
00:04:40,542 --> 00:04:40,632
we

331
00:04:40,632 --> 00:04:41,642
should rejoin the EU.

332
00:04:42,602 --> 00:04:42,842
He

333
00:04:42,842 --> 00:04:43,642
has to now, if

334
00:04:43,752 --> 00:04:43,912
his

335
00:04:43,912 --> 00:04:44,492
plan is

336
00:04:44,752 --> 00:04:47,022
fight this by-election
and then fight the Labour

337
00:04:47,022 --> 00:04:49,322
leadership election, if it's
contested, he needs to get the

338
00:04:49,322 --> 00:04:50,012
members on side.

339
00:04:50,432 --> 00:04:51,772
So in order to get the members on side, he

340
00:04:51,772 --> 00:04:53,242
needs to go, "God, I love the EU.

341
00:04:53,242 --> 00:04:55,382
I wish to be buried in
a flag with the stars

342
00:04:55,382 --> 00:04:56,392
on It My mother

343
00:04:56,392 --> 00:04:57,562
is Ursula von der Leyen."

344
00:04:58,152 --> 00:04:58,352
"I,

345
00:04:58,702 --> 00:05:00,779
have a big portrait of
Jacques Chirac in my office."

346
00:05:00,974 --> 00:05:01,664
Whatever it might be.

347
00:05:02,179 --> 00:05:03,079
But he's about

348
00:05:03,104 --> 00:05:03,964
to fight a very

349
00:05:04,499 --> 00:05:06,589
reform facing Brexity seat.

350
00:05:06,979 --> 00:05:11,069
So if he says, lads, we'll all be
speaking French by Christmas, great

351
00:05:11,069 --> 00:05:14,529
for the second election he's got in
his future, very bad for the one now.

352
00:05:15,169 --> 00:05:15,269
So

353
00:05:15,304 --> 00:05:15,934
he is going to have

354
00:05:15,999 --> 00:05:19,159
do some good old-fashioned Ne-
New Labour style triangulation

355
00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:19,849
if this becomes an issue.

356
00:05:19,849 --> 00:05:20,329
But it's, not

357
00:05:20,354 --> 00:05:20,474
his

358
00:05:20,474 --> 00:05:20,704
only

359
00:05:20,979 --> 00:05:22,829
'
cause he's fighting this by-election, if,

360
00:05:22,829 --> 00:05:23,829
he gets the nomination,

361
00:05:23,829 --> 00:05:24,019
on

362
00:05:24,019 --> 00:05:24,089
the

363
00:05:24,114 --> 00:05:24,674
grounds of

364
00:05:25,444 --> 00:05:25,744
If you

365
00:05:25,774 --> 00:05:26,384
hate the Labour

366
00:05:26,385 --> 00:05:26,895
government,

367
00:05:27,405 --> 00:05:27,705
vote

368
00:05:27,705 --> 00:05:28,085
Labour.

369
00:05:28,794 --> 00:05:30,584
Which is an odd position, isn't it?

370
00:05:30,584 --> 00:05:31,034
You've got to vote

371
00:05:31,034 --> 00:05:31,134
for

372
00:05:31,134 --> 00:05:32,379
him In order to

373
00:05:32,554 --> 00:05:33,514
Keir Starmer out.

374
00:05:33,539 --> 00:05:34,139
Yeah ...essentially.

375
00:05:34,139 --> 00:05:34,209
Here's our

376
00:05:34,220 --> 00:05:34,400
argument.

377
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:35,140
All, everyone, will

378
00:05:35,244 --> 00:05:37,361
saying, "Hate Starmer?
Vote for me." the- I

379
00:05:37,361 --> 00:05:37,861
think Keir

380
00:05:37,888 --> 00:05:38,288
Starmer

381
00:05:38,288 --> 00:05:40,068
should run on that.

382
00:05:40,068 --> 00:05:40,348
Yeah.

383
00:05:40,398 --> 00:05:40,918
platform.

384
00:05:40,918 --> 00:05:41,628
You hate me.

385
00:05:41,628 --> 00:05:42,008
Okay, you hate me.

386
00:05:42,008 --> 00:05:42,138
you

387
00:05:42,138 --> 00:05:42,428
hate me.

388
00:05:42,468 --> 00:05:43,898
But you hate everyone else more.

389
00:05:44,391 --> 00:05:45,101
Can we just come

390
00:05:45,101 --> 00:05:46,051
back to Keir Starmer

391
00:05:46,051 --> 00:05:46,611
for a second?

392
00:05:46,641 --> 00:05:46,901
Yes.

393
00:05:46,901 --> 00:05:47,061
Yeah.

394
00:05:47,131 --> 00:05:48,631
'Cause the chucking

395
00:05:48,631 --> 00:05:54,021
threshold for prime ministers seems to
have been creeping downwards, I would say.

396
00:05:54,698 --> 00:05:54,888
Liz

397
00:05:54,888 --> 00:05:55,268
Truss,

398
00:05:56,001 --> 00:05:56,431
I get it.

399
00:05:56,571 --> 00:05:56,961
I get why

400
00:05:56,961 --> 00:05:57,131
she

401
00:05:57,131 --> 00:05:57,271
had

402
00:05:57,308 --> 00:05:57,368
to

403
00:05:57,368 --> 00:05:57,518
go.

404
00:05:57,926 --> 00:05:58,586
Boris Johnson,

405
00:05:58,612 --> 00:05:59,802
Rishi Sunak lost an election.

406
00:06:01,858 --> 00:06:02,038
what's

407
00:06:02,277 --> 00:06:02,527
done?

408
00:06:02,842 --> 00:06:03,222
Nothing.

409
00:06:03,392 --> 00:06:03,972
That's the problem.

410
00:06:04,437 --> 00:06:04,677
Really.

411
00:06:04,677 --> 00:06:04,707
They've

412
00:06:04,812 --> 00:06:05,012
the

413
00:06:05,012 --> 00:06:05,982
haunting thing that k-

414
00:06:05,982 --> 00:06:07,512
keeps coming out again
and again is the idea that

415
00:06:07,537 --> 00:06:08,337
people don't know

416
00:06:08,352 --> 00:06:12,172
what he stands for, who he thinks he's
for and against, what his vision is.

417
00:06:12,542 --> 00:06:14,912
So the classic idea of
the Prime Minister is that

418
00:06:14,912 --> 00:06:18,332
you set the terms of the debate, so
people can make decisions because

419
00:06:18,357 --> 00:06:19,127
they know what you

420
00:06:19,262 --> 00:06:19,532
do

421
00:06:19,532 --> 00:06:19,812
in that

422
00:06:19,848 --> 00:06:20,258
circumstance.

423
00:06:20,982 --> 00:06:23,222
And what people report from
inside that operation is

424
00:06:23,247 --> 00:06:23,467
that they

425
00:06:23,467 --> 00:06:24,167
don't know

426
00:06:24,552 --> 00:06:25,162
how Starmer would

427
00:06:25,162 --> 00:06:26,092
jump on something.

428
00:06:26,342 --> 00:06:27,552
It paralyzes.

429
00:06:27,742 --> 00:06:27,952
But he's

430
00:06:27,987 --> 00:06:28,567
also not a very

431
00:06:28,752 --> 00:06:29,342
decision-maker

432
00:06:29,342 --> 00:06:30,822
himself, so nobody

433
00:06:30,857 --> 00:06:31,417
knows what to

434
00:06:31,417 --> 00:06:31,707
do.

435
00:06:31,832 --> 00:06:33,102
stuff just gets in this holding

436
00:06:33,102 --> 00:06:34,072
pattern, basically.

437
00:06:34,507 --> 00:06:35,517
With welfare reform,

438
00:06:35,592 --> 00:06:36,112
tried to put

439
00:06:36,112 --> 00:06:37,752
something that was quite tough, didn't get

440
00:06:37,777 --> 00:06:37,937
it,

441
00:06:38,017 --> 00:06:38,087
The

442
00:06:38,192 --> 00:06:40,732
MPs puked, and then they came back with

443
00:06:40,732 --> 00:06:41,892
something less.

444
00:06:42,087 --> 00:06:43,047
with winter fuel, they

445
00:06:43,047 --> 00:06:43,357
tried

446
00:06:43,402 --> 00:06:43,722
and didn't try.

447
00:06:44,222 --> 00:06:46,072
Shabana Mahmood's reforms

448
00:06:46,072 --> 00:06:47,272
to indefinitely to remain.

449
00:06:48,002 --> 00:06:48,652
V- very

450
00:06:48,652 --> 00:06:50,382
hard thing to get past Labour

451
00:06:51,012 --> 00:06:51,582
MPs

452
00:06:51,582 --> 00:06:51,662
who

453
00:06:51,677 --> 00:06:52,157
don't want

454
00:06:52,252 --> 00:06:52,862
vote to be m-

455
00:06:52,912 --> 00:06:54,022
meaner to immigrants.

456
00:06:54,412 --> 00:06:55,672
But you'd have to say, this is it.

457
00:06:55,712 --> 00:06:57,062
I'm staking-- we all got

458
00:06:57,062 --> 00:06:58,032
elected on this manifesto.

459
00:06:58,032 --> 00:06:58,412
You're gonna have to

460
00:06:58,447 --> 00:06:58,797
do it."

461
00:06:59,402 --> 00:07:00,082
and the quote that

462
00:07:00,082 --> 00:07:00,122
I

463
00:07:00,122 --> 00:07:00,292
think

464
00:07:00,327 --> 00:07:01,097
will forever haunt

465
00:07:01,352 --> 00:07:03,422
Starmer is from, Gabriel Progar

466
00:07:03,422 --> 00:07:05,162
and Patrick Maguire's Get In.

467
00:07:05,782 --> 00:07:06,162
hang on a minute.

468
00:07:06,162 --> 00:07:06,702
No, which one is

469
00:07:06,727 --> 00:07:06,847
it?

470
00:07:07,107 --> 00:07:08,247
They've all got in and out titles.

471
00:07:08,247 --> 00:07:08,517
their Get Out?

472
00:07:08,517 --> 00:07:09,737
gentleman's... Yeah.

473
00:07:09,892 --> 00:07:10,162
I saw

474
00:07:10,198 --> 00:07:10,338
Get Out.

475
00:07:10,477 --> 00:07:10,567
Out.

476
00:07:10,567 --> 00:07:10,917
No, it's... No.

477
00:07:10,917 --> 00:07:11,087
didn't

478
00:07:11,252 --> 00:07:11,562
to involve

479
00:07:11,562 --> 00:07:11,972
much Labour

480
00:07:11,972 --> 00:07:12,532
friends.

481
00:07:13,102 --> 00:07:13,292
Yeah.

482
00:07:13,652 --> 00:07:14,022
Jeremy Corbyn

483
00:07:14,022 --> 00:07:14,212
sat

484
00:07:14,247 --> 00:07:14,747
In a chair

485
00:07:14,747 --> 00:07:15,237
and plunged

486
00:07:15,362 --> 00:07:15,422
the,

487
00:07:15,422 --> 00:07:15,742
Underworld.

488
00:07:16,468 --> 00:07:16,608
It

489
00:07:16,937 --> 00:07:17,057
is,

490
00:07:17,972 --> 00:07:18,242
It is,

491
00:07:18,242 --> 00:07:18,642
It's Get

492
00:07:18,667 --> 00:07:19,637
In with the, But,

493
00:07:20,342 --> 00:07:20,642
someone

494
00:07:20,677 --> 00:07:21,017
said it's

495
00:07:22,292 --> 00:07:22,782
the DLR.

496
00:07:22,782 --> 00:07:23,792
It's a driverless train.

497
00:07:24,492 --> 00:07:25,622
No one's driving the train.

498
00:07:25,712 --> 00:07:26,532
and that's what they felt.

499
00:07:26,532 --> 00:07:27,282
They felt that Morgan

500
00:07:27,282 --> 00:07:28,892
McSweeney, his former
chief of staff, did have

501
00:07:28,892 --> 00:07:31,632
an idea of what he was doing,
but people didn't like it.

502
00:07:31,892 --> 00:07:32,712
Now he's gone.

503
00:07:32,842 --> 00:07:33,062
There's

504
00:07:33,062 --> 00:07:33,482
nothing.

505
00:07:33,676 --> 00:07:33,786
I

506
00:07:33,801 --> 00:07:34,081
I thought the

507
00:07:34,081 --> 00:07:34,301
most

508
00:07:34,301 --> 00:07:35,621
interesting bit of, last

509
00:07:35,756 --> 00:07:38,276
events wasn't actually Wes Streeting
going... There, there were also,

510
00:07:38,311 --> 00:07:39,961
before that, there were four junior

511
00:07:40,366 --> 00:07:41,426
who went as well, didn't they?

512
00:07:41,816 --> 00:07:44,846
three of which I must admit I was
completely blissfully unaware of

513
00:07:44,846 --> 00:07:46,606
until the point when they sent
in their resignation letters.

514
00:07:46,981 --> 00:07:47,491
But one of them was

515
00:07:47,491 --> 00:07:48,351
Jess Phillips, who,

516
00:07:48,506 --> 00:07:48,866
people will

517
00:07:48,866 --> 00:07:48,976
know

518
00:07:48,976 --> 00:07:49,146
about.

519
00:07:49,146 --> 00:07:49,776
I certainly know about.

520
00:07:50,051 --> 00:07:50,671
I thought there was a really

521
00:07:50,671 --> 00:07:51,321
interesting line

522
00:07:51,526 --> 00:07:51,896
Most of the

523
00:07:51,896 --> 00:07:52,446
resignations

524
00:07:52,636 --> 00:07:53,146
letters with that

525
00:07:53,146 --> 00:07:55,136
standard thing of the first paragraph
says, "I'm really proud of all

526
00:07:55,136 --> 00:07:55,186
the

527
00:07:55,186 --> 00:07:55,526
stuff I've

528
00:07:55,526 --> 00:07:56,626
achieved in my de- my department.

529
00:07:56,626 --> 00:07:57,366
Here is a list of it,

530
00:07:58,112 --> 00:07:58,482
But we had

531
00:07:58,482 --> 00:07:58,932
disastrous

532
00:07:59,206 --> 00:07:59,276
in

533
00:07:59,276 --> 00:08:00,646
the election, and I think
it's time for you to

534
00:08:00,646 --> 00:08:00,876
go.

535
00:08:00,876 --> 00:08:01,226
Sorry."

536
00:08:02,071 --> 00:08:04,031
Jess Phillips was much
more in detail about what

537
00:08:04,136 --> 00:08:04,586
thought was wrong

538
00:08:04,586 --> 00:08:05,396
with Keir Starmer.

539
00:08:05,636 --> 00:08:05,931
And

540
00:08:05,931 --> 00:08:07,541
the line I thought was, rather brilliant

541
00:08:07,541 --> 00:08:07,791
line from

542
00:08:07,846 --> 00:08:07,986
she

543
00:08:08,021 --> 00:08:09,581
said, The desire not to have an

544
00:08:10,096 --> 00:08:10,836
means we rarely

545
00:08:10,836 --> 00:08:12,156
make an argument." And it's

546
00:08:12,156 --> 00:08:12,546
that thing you're

547
00:08:12,546 --> 00:08:12,966
talking about.

548
00:08:12,966 --> 00:08:15,216
You don't feel there's
a sort of vision there

549
00:08:15,216 --> 00:08:15,496
that he's

550
00:08:15,496 --> 00:08:16,046
pushing through

551
00:08:16,046 --> 00:08:18,766
in the way that, say, strong prime
ministers like Tony Blair or Margaret

552
00:08:18,766 --> 00:08:20,816
Thatcher absolutely had their convictions,

553
00:08:20,816 --> 00:08:20,886
and

554
00:08:20,886 --> 00:08:23,946
they were pushing through whether the
rest of the party liked it or not.

555
00:08:23,976 --> 00:08:24,016
I

556
00:08:24,194 --> 00:08:24,540
she of course

557
00:08:24,695 --> 00:08:27,887
a minister for,  against rather
violence against women and

558
00:08:27,887 --> 00:08:28,197
girls.

559
00:08:29,462 --> 00:08:31,762
and she said she, there was a
possibility of real changes in

560
00:08:32,032 --> 00:08:32,782
that area, but i-

561
00:08:32,933 --> 00:08:32,983
it

562
00:08:33,502 --> 00:08:33,732
came

563
00:08:33,807 --> 00:08:34,217
threats

564
00:08:34,242 --> 00:08:34,922
made by me

565
00:08:34,922 --> 00:08:35,342
in the light

566
00:08:35,397 --> 00:08:36,527
catastrophic mistakes.

567
00:08:36,747 --> 00:08:36,827
She

568
00:08:36,827 --> 00:08:38,047
was very honest in the letter, and she

569
00:08:38,112 --> 00:08:38,602
said basically

570
00:08:38,777 --> 00:08:39,537
she jumped on the

571
00:08:39,537 --> 00:08:40,197
Mandelson stuff.

572
00:08:40,197 --> 00:08:40,637
Every time that

573
00:08:40,637 --> 00:08:43,177
the Mandelson stuff came up, suddenly
the government were very keen to

574
00:08:43,177 --> 00:08:43,387
prove

575
00:08:43,432 --> 00:08:43,892
that they were

576
00:08:44,027 --> 00:08:44,897
the, o- on

577
00:08:44,897 --> 00:08:47,273
the side of doing stuff against,
the exploitation of women, and

578
00:08:47,538 --> 00:08:47,758
she

579
00:08:47,786 --> 00:08:48,176
took those

580
00:08:48,581 --> 00:08:49,011
She said, "Yep,

581
00:08:49,147 --> 00:08:49,387
never

582
00:08:49,396 --> 00:08:50,226
want to waste a crisis

583
00:08:50,226 --> 00:08:50,946
to make advancements

584
00:08:50,946 --> 00:08:51,596
for women and girls."

585
00:08:51,721 --> 00:08:53,451
would push things then, and that was the

586
00:08:53,451 --> 00:08:53,811
only way

587
00:08:53,811 --> 00:08:54,481
she found she could

588
00:08:54,691 --> 00:08:54,819
really,

589
00:08:54,851 --> 00:08:55,601
get stuff done.

590
00:08:55,757 --> 00:08:56,397
Wasn't part of

591
00:08:56,443 --> 00:08:57,073
the problem there

592
00:08:57,073 --> 00:08:59,583
was the grooming gangs
fiasco was in the background.

593
00:09:00,237 --> 00:09:00,917
And again,

594
00:09:01,286 --> 00:09:01,456
Keir

595
00:09:01,456 --> 00:09:01,996
Starmer

596
00:09:02,176 --> 00:09:02,546
and

597
00:09:02,866 --> 00:09:03,206
his,

598
00:09:03,660 --> 00:09:04,300
operation

599
00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:05,460
were not keen

600
00:09:05,460 --> 00:09:05,570
to

601
00:09:05,596 --> 00:09:08,276
say, We've already had
a lot of inquiries."

602
00:09:08,290 --> 00:09:08,480
"
Do we

603
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:09,300
absolutely need

604
00:09:09,326 --> 00:09:10,516
another national inquiry?

605
00:09:10,876 --> 00:09:12,766
This hasn't been ignored
and shoved under the

606
00:09:12,766 --> 00:09:13,186
carpet.

607
00:09:13,450 --> 00:09:13,870
This is

608
00:09:13,896 --> 00:09:14,976
a narrative coming from

609
00:09:14,976 --> 00:09:16,536
somewhere else." we covered this

610
00:09:16,536 --> 00:09:18,056
quite extensively in the Eye.

611
00:09:18,266 --> 00:09:19,396
and the idea that,

612
00:09:19,930 --> 00:09:21,110
mainstream journalism from

613
00:09:21,146 --> 00:09:24,316
Andrew Norfolk onward, and
then local government and local

614
00:09:24,316 --> 00:09:24,816
inquiries.

615
00:09:24,950 --> 00:09:27,640
I he wasn't keen

616
00:09:27,856 --> 00:09:28,386
to take any

617
00:09:28,386 --> 00:09:29,126
stance on this.

618
00:09:29,356 --> 00:09:31,046
So even the one thing that

619
00:09:31,046 --> 00:09:34,076
Jess Phillips suggested,
I would guess, got lost in

620
00:09:34,076 --> 00:09:35,456
the feeling of, "Nope,

621
00:09:35,826 --> 00:09:36,606
we don't want to go there."

622
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:37,350
Yeah,

623
00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:37,520
I

624
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,830
think that w- with the grooming gangs
inquiry, I think there was a, an

625
00:09:39,830 --> 00:09:40,580
argument to be made.

626
00:09:40,580 --> 00:09:43,600
And actually Andrew Norfolk before
he died said this, which is you could

627
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,280
just end up spending a lot of money
on lawyers' fees and not actually get

628
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,140
any more justice for these victims.

629
00:09:48,540 --> 00:09:50,870
They didn't wanna say that,
so it left in this... Labor

630
00:09:50,905 --> 00:09:51,285
MPs were very

631
00:09:51,690 --> 00:09:51,900
about it.

632
00:09:52,110 --> 00:09:52,420
they didn't wanna

633
00:09:52,420 --> 00:09:52,600
go out

634
00:09:52,635 --> 00:09:53,055
and defend

635
00:09:53,056 --> 00:09:53,266
something

636
00:09:53,266 --> 00:09:53,416
that was

637
00:09:53,530 --> 00:09:54,110
change.

638
00:09:54,530 --> 00:09:57,220
look at this with the
two-child benefit, cap.

639
00:09:57,700 --> 00:09:58,710
People got suspended.

640
00:09:58,710 --> 00:09:58,960
They got the

641
00:09:58,985 --> 00:09:59,975
Labour whip withdrawn for

642
00:09:59,980 --> 00:10:03,120
policy which is now, a
year later, Labor policy.

643
00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:06,430
This is just-- you have to have,
even if you're wrong, you have to

644
00:10:06,430 --> 00:10:07,400
tell everyone what you think so

645
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:08,790
they can be confident deploying

646
00:10:08,825 --> 00:10:09,175
out and

647
00:10:09,175 --> 00:10:09,725
going, and having the

648
00:10:09,896 --> 00:10:11,316
with people in their constituency.

649
00:10:12,045 --> 00:10:12,235
Yeah,

650
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:12,410
and I

651
00:10:12,410 --> 00:10:12,730
think that

652
00:10:12,730 --> 00:10:15,100
Jess Phillips letter was exactly
right about that, I also think the

653
00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:18,190
fact that his panicked, Keir Starmer's
panicked response to the local

654
00:10:18,190 --> 00:10:21,390
elections was, "Bring me Gordon
Brown and Harriet Harman."

655
00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:21,510
Yes.

656
00:10:21,580 --> 00:10:21,690
That

657
00:10:21,790 --> 00:10:22,340
was the moment, yeah.

658
00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:24,120
Which was, I think
everybody in the whole of

659
00:10:24,125 --> 00:10:24,215
of

660
00:10:24,726 --> 00:10:25,906
went What?

661
00:10:26,273 --> 00:10:26,447
It's

662
00:10:26,472 --> 00:10:28,382
really weird with Keir Starmer,
though, 'cause there's a combination

663
00:10:28,467 --> 00:10:30,947
that sort of decisive action,
but not allies to any sort

664
00:10:30,947 --> 00:10:31,827
of vision, it sometimes seems

665
00:10:31,862 --> 00:10:31,952
like.

666
00:10:31,952 --> 00:10:32,362
So all of those

667
00:10:32,362 --> 00:10:33,172
people were expelled

668
00:10:33,607 --> 00:10:34,337
from the party

669
00:10:34,377 --> 00:10:36,277
or, suspended for kind of six
months at a time, I think.

670
00:10:36,822 --> 00:10:37,382
But without any

671
00:10:37,382 --> 00:10:37,682
sort of

672
00:10:37,887 --> 00:10:38,857
to push that through.

673
00:10:39,192 --> 00:10:40,962
when Boris Johnson kicked all
of those people out because

674
00:10:40,962 --> 00:10:41,762
they were going against his

675
00:10:41,762 --> 00:10:42,132
Brexit

676
00:10:42,437 --> 00:10:43,467
yeah, it, wasn't

677
00:10:43,502 --> 00:10:45,992
popular with people on the other
side, but it was at least a kind

678
00:10:46,057 --> 00:10:46,847
definitive, "This

679
00:10:46,872 --> 00:10:47,462
is what we're doing.

680
00:10:47,492 --> 00:10:47,692
This

681
00:10:47,777 --> 00:10:47,847
the

682
00:10:47,847 --> 00:10:48,207
government's

683
00:10:48,242 --> 00:10:48,662
agenda.

684
00:10:48,792 --> 00:10:49,102
the whole

685
00:10:49,102 --> 00:10:49,352
thing

686
00:10:49,427 --> 00:10:50,947
about getting Brexit
through, and that was seen as

687
00:10:50,972 --> 00:10:51,162
a way

688
00:10:51,217 --> 00:10:51,557
doing it.

689
00:10:51,897 --> 00:10:52,057
Whereas

690
00:10:52,092 --> 00:10:52,712
with Keir Starmer, it

691
00:10:52,712 --> 00:10:53,012
just seemed

692
00:10:53,962 --> 00:10:54,312
how

693
00:10:54,312 --> 00:10:54,742
many,

694
00:10:55,477 --> 00:10:55,647
of

695
00:10:55,647 --> 00:10:56,837
your, kind of friends and allies can

696
00:10:56,837 --> 00:10:58,226
you make take the fall for you?

697
00:10:58,226 --> 00:11:01,716
I mean- ...Morgan McSweeney
went, Ollie Robbins

698
00:11:01,716 --> 00:11:05,626
went, yeah, there, seemed all sorts of
people just seemed to have to fall on

699
00:11:05,626 --> 00:11:09,006
their swords for cockups that,
that, that really went all the

700
00:11:09,006 --> 00:11:10,056
way to the top, didn't they?

701
00:11:10,346 --> 00:11:11,166
And it seemed to be odd

702
00:11:11,263 --> 00:11:11,383
that

703
00:11:11,816 --> 00:11:12,706
you bring in two

704
00:11:13,173 --> 00:11:15,423
quite old people from
a previous government.

705
00:11:15,423 --> 00:11:16,783
It does suggest to your current

706
00:11:17,266 --> 00:11:18,236
backbenchers-

707
00:11:18,623 --> 00:11:19,923
that none of you are any good.

708
00:11:19,923 --> 00:11:22,293
I've got some jobs going,
but you can't have them.

709
00:11:22,506 --> 00:11:23,636
Obviously, I'm going

710
00:11:23,636 --> 00:11:23,876
to give

711
00:11:23,876 --> 00:11:26,726
them to some people
who you've already seen

712
00:11:26,753 --> 00:11:27,173
before.

713
00:11:27,723 --> 00:11:28,793
I have to say, most

714
00:11:28,793 --> 00:11:31,943
cartoonists, and indeed nearly
everyone on the eye, immediately said,

715
00:11:32,203 --> 00:11:33,583
"Can we have. Peter Madison back?"

716
00:11:33,583 --> 00:11:36,603
'Cause he's another, big
figure from those years

717
00:11:36,701 --> 00:11:37,501
be really useful

718
00:11:37,503 --> 00:11:37,633
to

719
00:11:37,633 --> 00:11:37,943
have.

720
00:11:38,096 --> 00:11:38,386
And

721
00:11:38,953 --> 00:11:39,353
again,

722
00:11:39,353 --> 00:11:39,413
I

723
00:11:39,916 --> 00:11:41,786
it, is the fact that Keir can't do

724
00:11:42,316 --> 00:11:42,896
any sort of

725
00:11:42,933 --> 00:11:43,413
management,

726
00:11:43,980 --> 00:11:44,180
which

727
00:11:44,216 --> 00:11:44,356
you know

728
00:11:44,356 --> 00:11:45,636
is a boring thing to point out,

729
00:11:45,666 --> 00:11:46,376
but that,

730
00:11:46,460 --> 00:11:47,710
that clearly is one of the

731
00:11:47,710 --> 00:11:48,610
reasons he

732
00:11:48,610 --> 00:11:50,700
didn't, carry anyone

733
00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:51,090
with him.

734
00:11:51,585 --> 00:11:51,725
It's

735
00:11:52,010 --> 00:11:54,410
odd, something we've talked about
ever since the government got in is

736
00:11:54,410 --> 00:11:56,110
the kind of Blairite comfort blanket.

737
00:11:56,110 --> 00:11:56,640
We mentioned

738
00:11:56,716 --> 00:11:58,036
Alan Milburn coming back and

739
00:11:58,190 --> 00:12:01,050
Jonathan Powell, and it's very
odd, for Keir Starmer, who doesn't

740
00:12:01,050 --> 00:12:02,130
give any impression of being

741
00:12:02,170 --> 00:12:02,980
deeply steeped

742
00:12:03,006 --> 00:12:03,126
in

743
00:12:03,126 --> 00:12:04,116
labor history, know?

744
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,420
not somebody who kind of swoons

745
00:12:05,420 --> 00:12:05,930
over Clement

746
00:12:05,930 --> 00:12:06,770
Attlee or whatever it might

747
00:12:06,826 --> 00:12:07,026
it might be.

748
00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:09,840
To then have this attachment to

749
00:12:09,875 --> 00:12:10,645
bringing back

750
00:12:11,286 --> 00:12:11,736
Blairite

751
00:12:11,850 --> 00:12:12,220
figures.

752
00:12:12,250 --> 00:12:13,360
Sort of odd, isn't it?

753
00:12:13,630 --> 00:12:13,780
like

754
00:12:13,865 --> 00:12:15,225
reviving, like

755
00:12:15,225 --> 00:12:16,005
Malcolm in the, Middle or

756
00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:17,440
It's just everyone likes

757
00:12:17,476 --> 00:12:17,596
liked

758
00:12:17,625 --> 00:12:18,255
it worked at the time.

759
00:12:18,255 --> 00:12:18,635
Like they've done, yeah.

760
00:12:18,665 --> 00:12:19,945
Yeah, why don't we do this again?

761
00:12:20,285 --> 00:12:21,175
But I wonder how if that

762
00:12:21,175 --> 00:12:21,545
was a,

763
00:12:21,890 --> 00:12:22,180
that was

764
00:12:22,180 --> 00:12:23,310
something that was interesting for Jess.

765
00:12:23,310 --> 00:12:24,070
The other thing she said

766
00:12:24,070 --> 00:12:24,180
in

767
00:12:24,180 --> 00:12:27,840
that letter was "I wanted to put
software on everybody's phones that

768
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,290
basically would b- stop children
uploading naked pictures of themselves

769
00:12:30,290 --> 00:12:31,170
to the internet." Now, we can have

770
00:12:31,170 --> 00:12:31,740
an argument about

771
00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:33,340
whether or not that's
authoritarianism, whatever.

772
00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:35,480
But her way of presenting
it was they didn't wanna

773
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,030
have the fight with the tech companies.

774
00:12:37,570 --> 00:12:37,680
And

775
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:39,230
I think that is a really interesting

776
00:12:39,230 --> 00:12:42,010
thing, is that are you willing
to identify villains in

777
00:12:42,010 --> 00:12:42,590
public life?

778
00:12:42,620 --> 00:12:44,330
So Reform have got a very

779
00:12:44,655 --> 00:12:46,045
clear argument about Who they think is

780
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:46,800
ruining Britain.

781
00:12:46,860 --> 00:12:46,970
Yeah

782
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,560
the Greens have got a very clear argument

783
00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:49,870
about who they think is ruining Britain.

784
00:12:50,170 --> 00:12:52,700
who according to Keir Starmer, is stopping

785
00:12:52,725 --> 00:12:53,085
us being

786
00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:54,860
kind of country he would like us to be?

787
00:12:55,180 --> 00:12:57,540
And I can't, two years
in, I can't answer that.

788
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:58,610
He's come out pretty

789
00:12:58,635 --> 00:12:59,005
strongly

790
00:12:59,590 --> 00:13:01,480
about Reform and, their opinions, and

791
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,820
he's, I think, flirted
with actually saying, I

792
00:13:03,820 --> 00:13:04,490
think these people

793
00:13:04,980 --> 00:13:06,730
are, acting in a racist manner, which

794
00:13:06,730 --> 00:13:08,500
is strong prime ministerial language.

795
00:13:08,660 --> 00:13:09,140
But that's

796
00:13:10,185 --> 00:13:10,845
Not enough for You

797
00:13:11,057 --> 00:13:11,647
Being scared of the

798
00:13:11,757 --> 00:13:12,567
tech barons is

799
00:13:12,597 --> 00:13:13,077
a really weird

800
00:13:13,077 --> 00:13:13,237
one,

801
00:13:13,347 --> 00:13:14,667
these guys are not popular.

802
00:13:14,877 --> 00:13:14,977
Yeah.

803
00:13:15,187 --> 00:13:16,077
I know that weirdly Tommy

804
00:13:16,077 --> 00:13:17,007
Robinson on Saturday got

805
00:13:17,137 --> 00:13:17,397
his

806
00:13:17,427 --> 00:13:17,697
crowd to

807
00:13:17,787 --> 00:13:18,877
three cheers for Elon Musk,

808
00:13:18,937 --> 00:13:20,987
but I'm not sure the
country at large want to

809
00:13:20,987 --> 00:13:21,137
give

810
00:13:21,297 --> 00:13:22,527
cheers for Elon, Musk.

811
00:13:22,777 --> 00:13:24,317
they, these are quite identifiable

812
00:13:24,317 --> 00:13:25,067
baddies that

813
00:13:25,577 --> 00:13:25,987
that Yeah that

814
00:13:26,007 --> 00:13:26,547
...
it might not

815
00:13:26,587 --> 00:13:27,537
hurt him to go up against.

816
00:13:27,687 --> 00:13:27,767
they're

817
00:13:27,767 --> 00:13:28,197
a bit like

818
00:13:28,197 --> 00:13:28,657
sort of water

819
00:13:28,957 --> 00:13:29,377
bosses.

820
00:13:29,377 --> 00:13:29,917
There are a few

821
00:13:29,917 --> 00:13:30,727
obvious villains

822
00:13:30,727 --> 00:13:31,137
out there

823
00:13:31,447 --> 00:13:33,667
who, you could set yourself

824
00:13:33,667 --> 00:13:35,207
against and define yourself
that way, I'm sure.

825
00:13:35,207 --> 00:13:35,354
Yeah,

826
00:13:35,417 --> 00:13:36,097
you can see- Andy Burnham

827
00:13:36,187 --> 00:13:36,257
what

828
00:13:36,257 --> 00:13:36,727
he's doing there.

829
00:13:36,727 --> 00:13:39,257
He's come out against,
smartphone use in school, and he

830
00:13:39,287 --> 00:13:39,947
came out at the,

831
00:13:40,057 --> 00:13:40,287
maybe

832
00:13:40,287 --> 00:13:41,097
at the weekend or maybe it was an

833
00:13:41,097 --> 00:13:42,057
archive clip, against VAR

834
00:13:42,057 --> 00:13:42,977
in football,

835
00:13:43,633 --> 00:13:43,793
which

836
00:13:43,857 --> 00:13:46,617
just one of those things that is, I
think, unites most football fans- ... is

837
00:13:46,617 --> 00:13:49,067
that they hate the idea that you stop
a match for six minutes while some

838
00:13:49,067 --> 00:13:50,527
people in a shed look at the clip and

839
00:13:50,527 --> 00:13:51,337
then you start again.

840
00:13:51,487 --> 00:13:51,837
Yeah,

841
00:13:51,917 --> 00:13:53,037
And- Experts, boo.

842
00:13:53,557 --> 00:13:54,147
Sorry.

843
00:13:54,407 --> 00:13:54,827
No, but that

844
00:13:54,877 --> 00:13:55,817
referee was supposed

845
00:13:55,847 --> 00:13:55,937
to

846
00:13:55,967 --> 00:13:57,057
the expert, and he's actually-

847
00:13:57,547 --> 00:13:57,907
there.

848
00:13:58,137 --> 00:14:02,287
Anyway, but the he has
identified they're... Who likes

849
00:14:02,557 --> 00:14:03,047
FIFA?

850
00:14:03,927 --> 00:14:04,367
Who likes

851
00:14:04,367 --> 00:14:05,327
the FA, right?

852
00:14:05,327 --> 00:14:05,827
Who likes

853
00:14:05,827 --> 00:14:07,897
faceless corporations that make a load of,

854
00:14:07,897 --> 00:14:08,327
of money out

855
00:14:08,367 --> 00:14:09,247
fans- Yeah

856
00:14:09,317 --> 00:14:11,267
and don't s- you know, FIFA
are in the middle of putting,

857
00:14:11,377 --> 00:14:12,437
halftime breaks

858
00:14:12,437 --> 00:14:12,727
into

859
00:14:12,727 --> 00:14:15,817
the World Cup final so they can flog more
adverts and make it like the Super Bowl.

860
00:14:16,157 --> 00:14:16,747
These people are

861
00:14:16,747 --> 00:14:18,637
not popular, and if you're
a government, you're

862
00:14:18,667 --> 00:14:18,807
you're

863
00:14:18,807 --> 00:14:19,167
allowed

864
00:14:19,167 --> 00:14:19,317
to,

865
00:14:19,637 --> 00:14:20,007
you're allowed

866
00:14:20,007 --> 00:14:20,977
to hop... This comes back

867
00:14:21,027 --> 00:14:22,007
to your Deirdre Barlow

868
00:14:22,327 --> 00:14:22,987
of Tony Blair.

869
00:14:22,987 --> 00:14:23,067
Free-

870
00:14:24,243 --> 00:14:25,933
My Deirdre Bar- Tony Blair.

871
00:14:26,057 --> 00:14:26,117
But

872
00:14:26,137 --> 00:14:27,587
he Suddenly got into Free Deirdre.

873
00:14:27,627 --> 00:14:27,727
You

874
00:14:27,727 --> 00:14:28,697
jump on the bandwagon.

875
00:14:28,697 --> 00:14:28,947
Yes.

876
00:14:29,127 --> 00:14:29,197
Yeah,

877
00:14:29,197 --> 00:14:29,737
yeah, yeah.

878
00:14:29,737 --> 00:14:31,297
This was when she went to prison,

879
00:14:31,654 --> 00:14:32,496
Fictional character, my lad,

880
00:14:33,323 --> 00:14:34,023
in Coronation Street.

881
00:14:34,053 --> 00:14:34,953
Oh, thank for a minute

882
00:14:35,003 --> 00:14:35,423
there, Dave- ... Tony

883
00:14:35,447 --> 00:14:35,577
had

884
00:14:35,823 --> 00:14:37,143
campaigning for someone

885
00:14:37,167 --> 00:14:38,077
the

886
00:14:38,103 --> 00:14:38,413
real

887
00:14:38,413 --> 00:14:38,943
world.

888
00:14:40,196 --> 00:14:40,976
But, she was on

889
00:14:41,017 --> 00:14:41,547
Coronation

890
00:14:41,936 --> 00:14:42,866
There was a storyline,

891
00:14:42,897 --> 00:14:44,087
and Tony Blair shamelessly

892
00:14:44,356 --> 00:14:44,666
onto

893
00:14:44,697 --> 00:14:45,337
And then- Yeah ... it hadn't seemed-

894
00:14:45,506 --> 00:14:46,176
haven't seen- I mean, the

895
00:14:46,176 --> 00:14:46,736
Jas, the Jas Phillips one in

896
00:14:46,736 --> 00:14:47,986
particular seemed because not only

897
00:14:48,017 --> 00:14:48,437
is it going up

898
00:14:48,437 --> 00:14:48,647
against

899
00:14:48,666 --> 00:14:52,306
tech bar- tech barons, but it's also
attempting to stop child pornography.

900
00:14:52,586 --> 00:14:53,406
this seems to me this would be

901
00:14:53,406 --> 00:14:54,896
quite a popular move with the public.

902
00:14:54,896 --> 00:14:57,766
There's not- Yeah, there's not a
huge pro child pornography lobby out

903
00:14:57,766 --> 00:14:58,596
there in politics that

904
00:14:58,596 --> 00:14:59,266
you're gonna lose a vote to.

905
00:14:59,266 --> 00:14:59,646
there's

906
00:14:59,646 --> 00:14:59,706
is

907
00:14:59,767 --> 00:14:59,797
...
a

908
00:15:00,043 --> 00:15:00,143
a big

909
00:15:00,143 --> 00:15:01,223
reform chunk who are

910
00:15:01,223 --> 00:15:03,753
fixated and concentrate

911
00:15:03,753 --> 00:15:04,893
on defending children.

912
00:15:04,953 --> 00:15:05,103
Yeah.

913
00:15:05,357 --> 00:15:05,557
this

914
00:15:05,557 --> 00:15:05,717
is

915
00:15:05,743 --> 00:15:06,523
their agenda.

916
00:15:06,803 --> 00:15:07,123
This was the-

917
00:15:07,127 --> 00:15:07,187
What

918
00:15:07,187 --> 00:15:07,887
about SLAPPs?

919
00:15:08,147 --> 00:15:08,697
You're always telling

920
00:15:08,737 --> 00:15:09,907
SLAPPs would be incredibly

921
00:15:09,933 --> 00:15:11,103
popular for a government

922
00:15:11,177 --> 00:15:11,397
bring

923
00:15:11,423 --> 00:15:11,583
in.

924
00:15:11,903 --> 00:15:12,053
Yeah,

925
00:15:12,057 --> 00:15:12,407
SLAPPs,

926
00:15:12,407 --> 00:15:12,737
which seem to

927
00:15:12,737 --> 00:15:13,357
have completely fallen

928
00:15:13,357 --> 00:15:13,717
by the wayside.

929
00:15:13,787 --> 00:15:14,377
talked about this,

930
00:15:14,657 --> 00:15:16,247
in, in in the last podcast.

931
00:15:16,397 --> 00:15:19,327
so this is strategic lawsuits
against public participation, and

932
00:15:19,327 --> 00:15:20,357
there's been a lot of, research

933
00:15:20,357 --> 00:15:22,647
come out for FOI,
requests by various people

934
00:15:22,677 --> 00:15:22,837
which

935
00:15:22,837 --> 00:15:23,697
show that the lobbying

936
00:15:23,703 --> 00:15:23,883
by

937
00:15:23,987 --> 00:15:24,567
Society of

938
00:15:24,567 --> 00:15:25,327
Media Lawyers,

939
00:15:25,327 --> 00:15:28,487
our friends at Carter-Ruck and
Mishcon de Reya and places like that,

940
00:15:28,947 --> 00:15:30,037
has been very, successful.

941
00:15:30,197 --> 00:15:30,827
it's gone completely

942
00:15:30,887 --> 00:15:31,617
the back burner.

943
00:15:32,147 --> 00:15:33,007
I, again, it's,

944
00:15:33,967 --> 00:15:34,257
greedy

945
00:15:34,257 --> 00:15:34,647
lawyers

946
00:15:34,647 --> 00:15:35,047
and sort

947
00:15:35,047 --> 00:15:36,367
of Russian oligarchs and people

948
00:15:36,367 --> 00:15:37,477
suing journalists.

949
00:15:38,067 --> 00:15:38,217
It

950
00:15:38,247 --> 00:15:38,427
would,

951
00:15:39,003 --> 00:15:39,043
I

952
00:15:39,047 --> 00:15:39,287
think, be

953
00:15:39,287 --> 00:15:40,047
fairly popular with

954
00:15:40,047 --> 00:15:40,097
the

955
00:15:40,447 --> 00:15:41,267
to go up against these people.

956
00:15:41,267 --> 00:15:43,387
It would certainly get
the newspaper editors on

957
00:15:43,387 --> 00:15:43,957
side, wouldn't

958
00:15:43,957 --> 00:15:44,037
it?

959
00:15:44,507 --> 00:15:44,567
I

960
00:15:44,597 --> 00:15:45,917
think we would unequivocally

961
00:15:46,127 --> 00:15:46,567
that people

962
00:15:46,697 --> 00:15:47,487
stopping-

963
00:15:48,381 --> 00:15:49,893
here.

964
00:15:49,937 --> 00:15:50,167
Trying

965
00:15:50,167 --> 00:15:50,417
to put

966
00:15:50,417 --> 00:15:50,737
us out

967
00:15:50,813 --> 00:15:51,513
business- Yeah

968
00:15:51,517 --> 00:15:51,677
would,

969
00:15:52,427 --> 00:15:52,717
would go

970
00:15:52,717 --> 00:15:53,047
down quite

971
00:15:53,077 --> 00:15:53,447
well,

972
00:15:53,827 --> 00:15:58,537
But none of these things, I think,
clear the public opinion threshold.

973
00:15:58,607 --> 00:16:01,117
I know, I, see what you're saying
about SLAPPs, but I don't think-

974
00:16:01,837 --> 00:16:05,077
Most members of the public care
too much about slaps in particular.

975
00:16:05,327 --> 00:16:05,797
Sorry.

976
00:16:05,863 --> 00:16:06,178
No, they

977
00:16:06,437 --> 00:16:06,527
though.

978
00:16:06,527 --> 00:16:07,424
But they, I know they should.

979
00:16:07,527 --> 00:16:08,367
I know they should.

980
00:16:08,767 --> 00:16:09,597
But none of these things,

981
00:16:09,597 --> 00:16:10,337
seem to clear

982
00:16:10,337 --> 00:16:11,247
the bar.

983
00:16:11,247 --> 00:16:14,207
It just feel, feels like
a slow agglomeration of

984
00:16:14,207 --> 00:16:17,477
irritations that have sapped public
support, meaning that eventually

985
00:16:17,477 --> 00:16:18,827
no one's willing to go into bat

986
00:16:19,428 --> 00:16:19,798
for the government.

987
00:16:20,028 --> 00:16:20,598
I, think there's also a

988
00:16:20,598 --> 00:16:20,988
feeling

989
00:16:20,988 --> 00:16:24,438
that, putting, employers'
National Insurance up-

990
00:16:24,687 --> 00:16:24,867
Yeah

991
00:16:24,957 --> 00:16:26,167
hasn't helped hugely, and the

992
00:16:26,167 --> 00:16:26,537
figures

993
00:16:26,568 --> 00:16:27,588
are, people are

994
00:16:27,588 --> 00:16:27,798
still

995
00:16:27,798 --> 00:16:28,808
arguing about them, but

996
00:16:28,887 --> 00:16:29,847
not looking terribly

997
00:16:29,847 --> 00:16:30,127
good.

998
00:16:30,347 --> 00:16:30,437
Yeah.

999
00:16:30,437 --> 00:16:32,857
And the economy is, always
something that people

1000
00:16:32,888 --> 00:16:36,338
will judge you on, and whether
it's Keir's fault or not,

1001
00:16:36,898 --> 00:16:37,388
he hasn't

1002
00:16:37,827 --> 00:16:38,647
sufficiently well that

1003
00:16:38,647 --> 00:16:38,747
it

1004
00:16:38,747 --> 00:16:39,627
isn't his fault.

1005
00:16:39,977 --> 00:16:40,107
If

1006
00:16:40,138 --> 00:16:40,438
it's the

1007
00:16:40,438 --> 00:16:41,068
fault of,

1008
00:16:41,947 --> 00:16:42,467
hangover

1009
00:16:42,498 --> 00:16:45,708
from, Russia/Ukraine plus, the next

1010
00:16:45,708 --> 00:16:46,418
war in the middle

1011
00:16:46,418 --> 00:16:47,468
of, plus,

1012
00:16:47,948 --> 00:16:51,528
the, financial crisis,
which is still going on, and

1013
00:16:51,738 --> 00:16:53,108
dare I say it, Brexit, and

1014
00:16:53,147 --> 00:16:53,547
figures are

1015
00:16:53,547 --> 00:16:55,757
still suggesting GDP went

1016
00:16:55,798 --> 00:16:56,208
down,

1017
00:16:56,438 --> 00:16:58,398
4% and everybody's lost out.

1018
00:16:58,928 --> 00:17:00,098
You've got to make that case.

1019
00:17:00,568 --> 00:17:03,098
If you're in the middle of an economic
crisis, you can't just say, "Oh,

1020
00:17:04,927 --> 00:17:05,837
it's miserable, isn't it?

1021
00:17:05,868 --> 00:17:06,938
And I look miserable."

1022
00:17:07,447 --> 00:17:07,557
You

1023
00:17:07,557 --> 00:17:07,697
do,

1024
00:17:07,697 --> 00:17:07,917
have

1025
00:17:07,948 --> 00:17:08,368
to say

1026
00:17:08,397 --> 00:17:08,737
why.

1027
00:17:09,368 --> 00:17:09,498
And

1028
00:17:09,717 --> 00:17:11,297
the case for the unpopular bits as well.

1029
00:17:11,437 --> 00:17:12,477
that was the thing with Mrs. Thatcher.

1030
00:17:12,477 --> 00:17:12,597
She

1031
00:17:12,637 --> 00:17:13,117
was prepared

1032
00:17:13,147 --> 00:17:16,037
say, unemployment sadly is the price
we're gonna have to pay," which

1033
00:17:16,077 --> 00:17:17,557
was a very, unpopular thing

1034
00:17:17,607 --> 00:17:17,887
say,

1035
00:17:17,957 --> 00:17:18,997
but it felt at least that

1036
00:17:19,457 --> 00:17:20,447
there was a sort of vision

1037
00:17:20,517 --> 00:17:20,997
a reasoning

1038
00:17:20,997 --> 00:17:21,347
behind it?

1039
00:17:21,397 --> 00:17:21,747
Whereas I

1040
00:17:21,747 --> 00:17:22,097
feel

1041
00:17:22,567 --> 00:17:22,637
the

1042
00:17:22,637 --> 00:17:23,077
public at the

1043
00:17:23,077 --> 00:17:23,837
moment are just feeling

1044
00:17:23,867 --> 00:17:24,047
like

1045
00:17:24,527 --> 00:17:24,577
the

1046
00:17:24,577 --> 00:17:25,327
economy and everything, is

1047
00:17:25,327 --> 00:17:27,047
just drifting and

1048
00:17:27,547 --> 00:17:27,997
no one is

1049
00:17:28,187 --> 00:17:28,537
taking

1050
00:17:28,957 --> 00:17:29,497
any, charge

1051
00:17:29,518 --> 00:17:29,948
of anything.

1052
00:17:30,444 --> 00:17:30,564
Now,

1053
00:17:30,594 --> 00:17:31,134
the other case

1054
00:17:31,214 --> 00:17:31,434
people

1055
00:17:31,434 --> 00:17:32,034
make is

1056
00:17:32,034 --> 00:17:33,924
that, Keir Starmer just

1057
00:17:33,924 --> 00:17:34,264
doesn't look

1058
00:17:34,264 --> 00:17:35,314
like he's having fun.

1059
00:17:35,634 --> 00:17:36,504
And it's easy to

1060
00:17:36,504 --> 00:17:36,694
see

1061
00:17:36,694 --> 00:17:38,484
why you would not look
like you're having fun

1062
00:17:38,484 --> 00:17:38,734
because

1063
00:17:38,774 --> 00:17:39,074
it's...

1064
00:17:39,644 --> 00:17:43,044
most people have not seemed like
they're having fun in this job, frankly.

1065
00:17:43,044 --> 00:17:43,374
Theresa

1066
00:17:43,415 --> 00:17:44,025
May did that little

1067
00:17:44,217 --> 00:17:44,625
dance, didn't she?

1068
00:17:44,625 --> 00:17:44,835
Oh, you're right.

1069
00:17:44,835 --> 00:17:45,365
She was having fun

1070
00:17:45,365 --> 00:17:45,465
then.

1071
00:17:45,465 --> 00:17:46,105
She was away on that time.

1072
00:17:46,105 --> 00:17:46,675
that was her happy place.

1073
00:17:46,675 --> 00:17:47,155
Boris Johnson

1074
00:17:47,304 --> 00:17:47,884
was her happy place.

1075
00:17:47,914 --> 00:17:50,644
Boris Johnson seemed to be having an
absolute ball, but I don't- Yeah, none of

1076
00:17:50,694 --> 00:17:51,114
the

1077
00:17:51,114 --> 00:17:51,304
rest

1078
00:17:51,304 --> 00:17:51,344
of

1079
00:17:51,344 --> 00:17:51,474
us were.

1080
00:17:51,474 --> 00:17:51,534
No,

1081
00:17:51,534 --> 00:17:51,774
exactly.

1082
00:17:51,795 --> 00:17:51,934
So-

1083
00:17:51,934 --> 00:17:52,054
Even

1084
00:17:52,054 --> 00:17:52,174
Rishi

1085
00:17:52,174 --> 00:17:55,084
Sunak looked like he was doing
u- useful and important work.

1086
00:17:55,174 --> 00:17:55,614
Do you think?

1087
00:17:55,804 --> 00:17:56,964
when he got to have his AI

1088
00:17:56,964 --> 00:17:58,954
summit, he s- was absolutely thrilled.

1089
00:17:59,154 --> 00:17:59,864
That was his- That

1090
00:17:59,864 --> 00:18:00,004
was

1091
00:18:00,004 --> 00:18:00,324
his high

1092
00:18:00,324 --> 00:18:00,594
point.

1093
00:18:00,594 --> 00:18:00,634
That

1094
00:18:00,634 --> 00:18:00,735
was

1095
00:18:00,806 --> 00:18:00,946
his

1096
00:18:00,955 --> 00:18:01,055
thing.

1097
00:18:01,055 --> 00:18:01,205
And

1098
00:18:01,336 --> 00:18:01,576
off, wasn't it?

1099
00:18:01,576 --> 00:18:01,656
And

1100
00:18:01,664 --> 00:18:01,944
chess-

1101
00:18:02,005 --> 00:18:02,175
chessboards

1102
00:18:02,204 --> 00:18:02,754
in parks

1103
00:18:02,754 --> 00:18:04,344
and con- And maths A-levels,

1104
00:18:04,446 --> 00:18:05,226
that made him very happy.

1105
00:18:05,234 --> 00:18:06,884
100 chess boards in parks.

1106
00:18:07,064 --> 00:18:08,084
But no pieces.

1107
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:08,640
Bring your own

1108
00:18:09,344 --> 00:18:09,594
Bring your

1109
00:18:09,594 --> 00:18:09,734
own

1110
00:18:09,734 --> 00:18:09,962
pieces.

1111
00:18:10,194 --> 00:18:10,804
Anyway,

1112
00:18:11,004 --> 00:18:11,604
God, that's

1113
00:18:11,606 --> 00:18:15,486
And when he tried to u- buy a can of
Coke ...and meet members of the public.

1114
00:18:15,486 --> 00:18:15,536
And

1115
00:18:15,614 --> 00:18:15,644
Oh,

1116
00:18:15,864 --> 00:18:15,924
yeah.

1117
00:18:15,924 --> 00:18:16,164
And he didn't have

1118
00:18:16,164 --> 00:18:16,294
any

1119
00:18:16,326 --> 00:18:16,436
get

1120
00:18:16,436 --> 00:18:16,596
That

1121
00:18:16,596 --> 00:18:17,256
was quite good.

1122
00:18:17,256 --> 00:18:17,316
He

1123
00:18:17,654 --> 00:18:18,034
up someone

1124
00:18:18,034 --> 00:18:18,494
else's car with

1125
00:18:18,494 --> 00:18:18,834
petrol,

1126
00:18:18,834 --> 00:18:19,134
didn't he?

1127
00:18:19,335 --> 00:18:20,515
Oh, we're feeling wistful about Rishi

1128
00:18:20,515 --> 00:18:20,945
Sunak now.

1129
00:18:20,995 --> 00:18:21,455
Yeah.

1130
00:18:21,526 --> 00:18:22,296
is what happens,

1131
00:18:22,626 --> 00:18:22,856
There's always-

1132
00:18:22,856 --> 00:18:23,226
a nostalgia.

1133
00:18:23,226 --> 00:18:23,826
The nostalgia.

1134
00:18:23,826 --> 00:18:24,096
kicks in.

1135
00:18:24,096 --> 00:18:24,196
Okay.

1136
00:18:24,456 --> 00:18:24,856
But you're

1137
00:18:24,865 --> 00:18:25,085
right.

1138
00:18:25,454 --> 00:18:26,134
there is a trope

1139
00:18:26,134 --> 00:18:26,224
in

1140
00:18:26,224 --> 00:18:28,444
politics that's called the
happy warrior, Which is

1141
00:18:28,444 --> 00:18:30,324
basically someone who gets out
of bed every morning and they

1142
00:18:30,356 --> 00:18:30,766
go, and they

1143
00:18:30,766 --> 00:18:31,046
argue

1144
00:18:31,174 --> 00:18:31,514
people.

1145
00:18:31,754 --> 00:18:31,844
And

1146
00:18:31,885 --> 00:18:33,385
actually it works in journalism too.

1147
00:18:33,704 --> 00:18:34,154
lots of these

1148
00:18:34,154 --> 00:18:36,014
YouTube creators, they
just love having a ruck.

1149
00:18:36,014 --> 00:18:38,124
They get up... r- I...
The thought for me of

1150
00:18:38,124 --> 00:18:40,894
being invited on some show to argue
the toss with somebody makes, fills

1151
00:18:40,894 --> 00:18:42,444
my heart with dread these days.

1152
00:18:42,664 --> 00:18:42,874
some

1153
00:18:42,874 --> 00:18:45,454
people love it, They get out and
they, absolutely thrive on it.

1154
00:18:45,834 --> 00:18:46,254
And actually,

1155
00:18:46,285 --> 00:18:47,615
in today's attention economy, you've

1156
00:18:47,615 --> 00:18:47,965
gotta be

1157
00:18:48,724 --> 00:18:50,064
out stuff all the time.

1158
00:18:50,104 --> 00:18:52,114
You've gotta seem like
you're really up for a ruck.

1159
00:18:52,154 --> 00:18:52,564
And this is a

1160
00:18:52,564 --> 00:18:55,474
thing that Nigel Farage And Zak
Polanski are both constantly doing.

1161
00:18:55,944 --> 00:18:56,044
They're,

1162
00:18:56,044 --> 00:18:56,544
almost

1163
00:18:56,894 --> 00:18:57,844
n- they're almost never

1164
00:18:57,844 --> 00:19:00,164
not making a TikTok, as far as I can tell.

1165
00:19:00,164 --> 00:19:00,304
They're

1166
00:19:00,304 --> 00:19:00,414
just-

1167
00:19:00,414 --> 00:19:00,604
They're like

1168
00:19:00,604 --> 00:19:01,844
95th percentile- Yeah

1169
00:19:01,844 --> 00:19:02,564
... 
extroverts.

1170
00:19:02,615 --> 00:19:02,735
They

1171
00:19:02,914 --> 00:19:03,404
their energy

1172
00:19:03,404 --> 00:19:03,644
Yeah ...from

1173
00:19:03,644 --> 00:19:04,474
being in company.

1174
00:19:04,474 --> 00:19:04,994
Now, Nigel

1175
00:19:04,994 --> 00:19:05,694
Farage in the

1176
00:19:05,984 --> 00:19:06,874
Reform podcast,

1177
00:19:06,916 --> 00:19:07,106
which I

1178
00:19:07,204 --> 00:19:07,564
be the only

1179
00:19:07,564 --> 00:19:09,904
listener to, he has got so many

1180
00:19:09,904 --> 00:19:11,024
people waiting to see him on

1181
00:19:11,024 --> 00:19:12,264
stage, and there's an overflow room.

1182
00:19:12,424 --> 00:19:12,964
So he goes

1183
00:19:12,964 --> 00:19:13,134
and

1184
00:19:13,134 --> 00:19:15,294
does an hour of Q&A in the overflow

1185
00:19:15,294 --> 00:19:16,024
room beforehand.

1186
00:19:16,404 --> 00:19:17,204
that is, for him

1187
00:19:17,204 --> 00:19:17,364
that

1188
00:19:17,395 --> 00:19:18,555
is politics, is people

1189
00:19:18,834 --> 00:19:20,944
questions, him shooting
the breeze with them.

1190
00:19:21,154 --> 00:19:22,254
You get that same vibe

1191
00:19:22,254 --> 00:19:23,094
off Zak Polanski.

1192
00:19:23,252 --> 00:19:23,332
the

1193
00:19:23,332 --> 00:19:25,582
Q&A sessions don't involve the

1194
00:19:25,582 --> 00:19:28,172
question- why did you take that money?

1195
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:29,510
and why

1196
00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:29,850
you

1197
00:19:29,892 --> 00:19:30,572
declare it?

1198
00:19:30,572 --> 00:19:32,472
I... He seems less keen
to answer that one.

1199
00:19:32,592 --> 00:19:32,682
Yeah.

1200
00:19:32,682 --> 00:19:32,852
that

1201
00:19:32,882 --> 00:19:33,202
ruck

1202
00:19:33,202 --> 00:19:33,812
is not one

1203
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:34,180
having.

1204
00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:34,240
No.

1205
00:19:34,290 --> 00:19:34,460
But

1206
00:19:34,460 --> 00:19:34,720
that

1207
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:35,980
that was also the case with Jeremy

1208
00:19:36,330 --> 00:19:36,940
Jeremy Corbyn

1209
00:19:36,980 --> 00:19:39,900
loved being asked, "When will
the socialist paradise come? How

1210
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:41,360
Can I hear more about your jam?"

1211
00:19:41,670 --> 00:19:44,220
And rather less about, "Do you
think we should pull out of NATO

1212
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:45,430
then, like you always used to say?"

1213
00:19:45,580 --> 00:19:46,530
Can I... finish, can I

1214
00:19:46,530 --> 00:19:47,200
finish?

1215
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:48,000
Can I finish?

1216
00:19:48,492 --> 00:19:48,712
Yeah, All

1217
00:19:48,712 --> 00:19:49,162
right, love.

1218
00:19:49,282 --> 00:19:50,202
All right,

1219
00:19:50,370 --> 00:19:50,480
down.

1220
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:51,150
Now,

1221
00:19:51,727 --> 00:19:52,037
Let's turn

1222
00:19:52,037 --> 00:19:53,137
to someone who does seem like they

1223
00:19:53,326 --> 00:19:53,846
enjoy public

1224
00:19:53,846 --> 00:19:53,943
life,

1225
00:19:54,056 --> 00:19:54,416
who's Andy

1226
00:19:54,416 --> 00:19:54,816
Burnham.

1227
00:19:55,084 --> 00:19:56,924
Yeah, for some of us, this is,

1228
00:19:56,933 --> 00:20:00,593
the whole episode is bringing back
me- memories of the long 2010s-

1229
00:20:01,054 --> 00:20:01,954
when Andy Burnham

1230
00:20:02,343 --> 00:20:03,793
on the periphery of, of my

1231
00:20:03,793 --> 00:20:05,183
vision for all of that, time.

1232
00:20:05,523 --> 00:20:09,163
Actually, I was on a I was on a panel with
him in Labour Party conference in 2021.

1233
00:20:09,163 --> 00:20:09,533
God, I'm

1234
00:20:09,533 --> 00:20:10,493
getting nostalgic for Labour

1235
00:20:10,624 --> 00:20:11,784
Party conferences past.

1236
00:20:11,784 --> 00:20:13,664
This is worse than
nostalgia for Rishi Sunak.

1237
00:20:14,593 --> 00:20:18,443
he is, he has enjoyed being
m- mayor of Manchester.

1238
00:20:18,793 --> 00:20:21,483
I think people generally find
the mayoralties to be the right

1239
00:20:21,483 --> 00:20:22,873
size of job, where you can

1240
00:20:22,873 --> 00:20:26,413
actually do things, and people see
them in their everyday lives in a

1241
00:20:26,413 --> 00:20:29,403
way that at prime ministerial level
has become much more a struggle.

1242
00:20:29,443 --> 00:20:31,303
S- Sadiq Khan has been, what?

1243
00:20:31,303 --> 00:20:32,813
He's in his third term
as mayor of London now.

1244
00:20:32,813 --> 00:20:35,073
He's majored on, mostly on clean air

1245
00:20:35,363 --> 00:20:37,753
and, things like that, and he's,
he's written books about it.

1246
00:20:37,753 --> 00:20:41,323
He's And that's something he really likes
talking about and going into bat for.

1247
00:20:41,413 --> 00:20:43,183
And Ulez is another example of it.

1248
00:20:43,433 --> 00:20:43,693
And if it- And he

1249
00:20:43,694 --> 00:20:44,304
he loves doing,

1250
00:20:44,484 --> 00:20:45,514
cross-religious stuff.

1251
00:20:45,643 --> 00:20:46,273
That man has been to a

1252
00:20:46,275 --> 00:20:46,525
a lot

1253
00:20:46,533 --> 00:20:47,063
synagogues.

1254
00:20:47,253 --> 00:20:47,623
Can't, you

1255
00:20:47,674 --> 00:20:47,734
him

1256
00:20:47,893 --> 00:20:48,203
keep him out.

1257
00:20:48,203 --> 00:20:48,333
Okay.

1258
00:20:48,483 --> 00:20:51,373
But, he, sees the ambassadorial
role of being, London's

1259
00:20:51,373 --> 00:20:52,833
voice as Well, yeah- as
being really important.

1260
00:20:53,154 --> 00:20:53,694
And again, does

1261
00:20:53,705 --> 00:20:54,995
seem to be enjoying

1262
00:20:55,053 --> 00:20:55,313
more.

1263
00:20:55,603 --> 00:21:00,003
But yeah, so Andy Burnham's path
to glory is, there's a selection

1264
00:21:00,003 --> 00:21:01,273
meeting at the NEC this week.

1265
00:21:01,273 --> 00:21:02,823
Technically, Starmer has got

1266
00:21:02,853 --> 00:21:04,183
the votes on the NEC

1267
00:21:04,183 --> 00:21:07,413
to block it, but I think there
would be an actual riot if he did.

1268
00:21:07,829 --> 00:21:07,929
Okay.

1269
00:21:08,993 --> 00:21:10,553
candidate selection, again,

1270
00:21:11,579 --> 00:21:11,909
quite

1271
00:21:11,933 --> 00:21:14,713
brave person than the rest of
Labour to run against him for that

1272
00:21:14,713 --> 00:21:16,003
selection, so we'll see how that goes.

1273
00:21:16,423 --> 00:21:19,943
But then, then he's got to, a,
really difficult challenge to win

1274
00:21:19,943 --> 00:21:20,573
that seat.

1275
00:21:21,043 --> 00:21:22,123
His chances are looking pretty good.

1276
00:21:22,363 --> 00:21:26,673
But the, specific, so it's Makerfield
on the outskirts of Wigan, and it

1277
00:21:26,673 --> 00:21:30,883
just returned all Reform councilors in
the latest group of local elections.

1278
00:21:30,883 --> 00:21:30,973
So

1279
00:21:30,973 --> 00:21:32,743
why do you think his chances
look pretty good then?

1280
00:21:32,843 --> 00:21:35,363
Because he is popular in that area.

1281
00:21:36,253 --> 00:21:38,223
he's got incredibly good public profile.

1282
00:21:38,443 --> 00:21:41,743
Who are Reform gonna run that's
gonna have an equivalent profile to

1283
00:21:41,743 --> 00:21:41,973
him?

1284
00:21:42,003 --> 00:21:42,583
Matt Goodwin

1285
00:21:42,583 --> 00:21:42,853
lastly.

1286
00:21:42,853 --> 00:21:43,053
It could be

1287
00:21:43,114 --> 00:21:44,494
good Matt Win.

1288
00:21:44,524 --> 00:21:44,964
Matt Goodwin.

1289
00:21:44,964 --> 00:21:45,084
in

1290
00:21:45,093 --> 00:21:45,503
beard.

1291
00:21:45,564 --> 00:21:46,114
be Good Matt Win.

1292
00:21:46,114 --> 00:21:46,744
Matt Goodwin in a beard.

1293
00:21:46,893 --> 00:21:47,053
but

1294
00:21:47,963 --> 00:21:51,443
if Reform could find somebody with
his popularity and name recognition.

1295
00:21:51,783 --> 00:21:53,283
And the other thing is it's a by-election.

1296
00:21:53,283 --> 00:21:54,303
It's not the general election.

1297
00:21:54,333 --> 00:21:58,033
Reform's voter base is more
people who left school at 18, more

1298
00:21:58,033 --> 00:21:59,163
low information voters, people

1299
00:21:59,163 --> 00:21:59,223
who

1300
00:21:59,223 --> 00:22:00,843
aren't massively engaged by politics.

1301
00:22:01,173 --> 00:22:01,933
Those people don't

1302
00:22:01,933 --> 00:22:04,423
tend to turn out in
by-elections in the way

1303
00:22:04,423 --> 00:22:06,923
that college gr- college
graduates, I'm so American.

1304
00:22:07,203 --> 00:22:10,613
University graduates- ...people
who read a newspaper consistently,

1305
00:22:11,024 --> 00:22:11,474
all those

1306
00:22:11,474 --> 00:22:11,714
kind of

1307
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:12,030
people

1308
00:22:12,643 --> 00:22:15,173
are much more likely... like the f-
the conditions in a by-election are

1309
00:22:15,180 --> 00:22:16,310
are more favorable to Labour.

1310
00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:16,460
But

1311
00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:18,540
they said that about local
elections, didn't they?

1312
00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:20,550
And then a lot of Reform voters did

1313
00:22:20,550 --> 00:22:21,080
turn up this

1314
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:21,170
time.

1315
00:22:21,170 --> 00:22:21,460
Yeah.

1316
00:22:21,784 --> 00:22:22,764
it might just be that they're people...

1317
00:22:23,303 --> 00:22:27,653
my, main fear for Andy Burnham in this is
what I think of as the Boaty McBoatface

1318
00:22:28,333 --> 00:22:30,123
problem, which is I think there might

1319
00:22:30,164 --> 00:22:30,484
be a lot

1320
00:22:30,513 --> 00:22:32,303
people... who think, "You really want

1321
00:22:32,344 --> 00:22:32,444
to

1322
00:22:32,533 --> 00:22:33,093
prime minister.

1323
00:22:33,093 --> 00:22:35,443
This is essentially a by-election
to be prime minister."

1324
00:22:35,474 --> 00:22:35,684
Yeah.

1325
00:22:35,864 --> 00:22:36,204
"Wouldn't it

1326
00:22:36,253 --> 00:22:37,573
funny if we just voted

1327
00:22:37,573 --> 00:22:40,073
against you and stopped
you?" Much like voting

1328
00:22:40,073 --> 00:22:41,623
for the, a ship to be named

1329
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:42,590
Boaty McBoatface.

1330
00:22:42,623 --> 00:22:43,413
That's the banter

1331
00:22:43,810 --> 00:22:44,000
outcome.

1332
00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:44,090
But-

1333
00:22:44,104 --> 00:22:44,584
There is a

1334
00:22:44,963 --> 00:22:45,433
isn't there, of

1335
00:22:45,433 --> 00:22:45,993
people not, lo-

1336
00:22:45,993 --> 00:22:48,643
of people in constituencies
not liking being used

1337
00:22:48,643 --> 00:22:49,043
this way.

1338
00:22:49,363 --> 00:22:51,353
there was the Leyton
by-election in '64 when

1339
00:22:51,563 --> 00:22:51,943
Harold Wilson

1340
00:22:51,943 --> 00:22:52,383
was trying to get

1341
00:22:52,383 --> 00:22:52,873
someone in.

1342
00:22:53,543 --> 00:22:53,988
You're

1343
00:22:54,270 --> 00:22:54,890
laughing at me.

1344
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:55,440
Oh, yeah.

1345
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:56,090
No, Leyton, '64.

1346
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:56,210
Yeah, '64.

1347
00:22:56,444 --> 00:22:56,794
'64. Yeah.

1348
00:22:56,853 --> 00:22:57,143
I was,

1349
00:22:57,143 --> 00:22:57,823
thinking it was '63,

1350
00:22:57,864 --> 00:22:58,864
'
63, but it's '64.

1351
00:22:59,044 --> 00:22:59,124
yeah.

1352
00:22:59,124 --> 00:23:00,384
With my Professor Sir John Curtice

1353
00:23:00,573 --> 00:23:00,663
on-

1354
00:23:00,804 --> 00:23:01,804
... '
64,

1355
00:23:01,810 --> 00:23:02,330
Harold Wilson

1356
00:23:02,334 --> 00:23:03,304
tried to parachute in

1357
00:23:03,653 --> 00:23:05,213
a a someone who he wanted to make

1358
00:23:05,213 --> 00:23:05,333
his

1359
00:23:05,364 --> 00:23:06,044
foreign secretary.

1360
00:23:06,164 --> 00:23:06,764
And the voters just

1361
00:23:06,764 --> 00:23:07,614
kind of went, "No, we're not having

1362
00:23:07,733 --> 00:23:08,193
We're not doing that

1363
00:23:08,234 --> 00:23:08,354
at

1364
00:23:08,354 --> 00:23:08,434
all."

1365
00:23:08,523 --> 00:23:09,003
And then fo-

1366
00:23:09,354 --> 00:23:09,584
all Right.

1367
00:23:09,584 --> 00:23:10,574
this is one you have heard of.

1368
00:23:10,699 --> 00:23:10,739
of.

1369
00:23:11,623 --> 00:23:12,453
same year, I think.

1370
00:23:13,323 --> 00:23:17,973
when, Alec Douglas-Home was,
appointed as head of the, as leader

1371
00:23:18,014 --> 00:23:18,114
of.

1372
00:23:18,143 --> 00:23:19,663
Conservative Party without
a seat in Parliament.

1373
00:23:19,663 --> 00:23:19,993
Ah, yeah.

1374
00:23:20,054 --> 00:23:20,124
yeah.

1375
00:23:20,124 --> 00:23:20,254
He was

1376
00:23:20,713 --> 00:23:23,353
into a seat up in Scotland,
And famously Private Eye put

1377
00:23:23,384 --> 00:23:24,164
up a candidate against

1378
00:23:24,233 --> 00:23:25,283
for exactly this reason,

1379
00:23:25,604 --> 00:23:26,304
'
cause they objected to

1380
00:23:26,343 --> 00:23:28,933
some sort of coronation, and,
Willie Rushton ran against

1381
00:23:28,933 --> 00:23:29,123
him.

1382
00:23:29,263 --> 00:23:29,343
He

1383
00:23:29,390 --> 00:23:30,930
didn't get a huge number of votes.

1384
00:23:30,930 --> 00:23:31,810
He is still trying.

1385
00:23:31,810 --> 00:23:32,810
37 votes, so it wasn't-

1386
00:23:32,814 --> 00:23:33,834
brilliantly successful.

1387
00:23:33,834 --> 00:23:34,224
37. But- Okay.

1388
00:23:34,224 --> 00:23:35,924
But it does tell you something
about the kind of mood

1389
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:37,290
on, on,

1390
00:23:37,290 --> 00:23:37,670
occasions

1391
00:23:37,674 --> 00:23:38,344
when people feel that

1392
00:23:38,553 --> 00:23:39,843
people are being parachuted in like that.

1393
00:23:40,045 --> 00:23:41,285
One last solution.

1394
00:23:41,285 --> 00:23:43,255
Surely Farage resigns his Clacton

1395
00:23:43,255 --> 00:23:44,665
seat, stands in this by-election.

1396
00:23:44,865 --> 00:23:45,145
Whoever

1397
00:23:45,145 --> 00:23:46,355
wins becomes PM.

1398
00:23:46,645 --> 00:23:47,075
Easy.

1399
00:23:47,175 --> 00:23:47,295
And

1400
00:23:47,295 --> 00:23:47,655
then Josh

1401
00:23:47,761 --> 00:23:48,555
Simons could take over

1402
00:23:48,555 --> 00:23:49,115
in Clacton,

1403
00:23:49,165 --> 00:23:49,405
couldn't he?

1404
00:23:49,405 --> 00:23:51,115
They could all just musical
chairs all around the country.

1405
00:23:51,213 --> 00:23:51,553
would- That's a

1406
00:23:51,553 --> 00:23:51,733
good

1407
00:23:51,733 --> 00:23:52,233
idea,

1408
00:23:52,233 --> 00:23:52,703
except

1409
00:23:52,703 --> 00:23:54,103
that it's the first time

1410
00:23:54,133 --> 00:23:55,453
Farage won in a by-election.

1411
00:23:55,453 --> 00:23:56,623
I do not think

1412
00:23:56,683 --> 00:23:57,283
- 
Yeah ... he's going

1413
00:23:57,283 --> 00:23:58,513
to give up Clacton,

1414
00:23:59,007 --> 00:23:59,637
"
easily.

1415
00:23:59,707 --> 00:24:00,017
Who's gonna

1416
00:24:00,067 --> 00:24:01,037
buy him a house in,

1417
00:24:01,567 --> 00:24:01,847
Macces-

1418
00:24:01,947 --> 00:24:02,497
Macclesfield?

1419
00:24:03,077 --> 00:24:03,527
Macclesfield?

1420
00:24:03,677 --> 00:24:04,087
partner.

1421
00:24:04,177 --> 00:24:04,287
His

1422
00:24:04,607 --> 00:24:05,237
with her family money.

1423
00:24:05,237 --> 00:24:05,897
Oh, that's so true.

1424
00:24:05,967 --> 00:24:06,027
Yeah.

1425
00:24:06,027 --> 00:24:06,197
That's a

1426
00:24:06,197 --> 00:24:06,497
good point.

1427
00:24:06,497 --> 00:24:08,017
He probably won't need a donation he

1428
00:24:08,043 --> 00:24:08,503
doesn't declare.

1429
00:24:08,793 --> 00:24:09,043
aren't

1430
00:24:09,043 --> 00:24:09,833
there canals there?

1431
00:24:09,833 --> 00:24:10,443
Could he live on a

1432
00:24:10,443 --> 00:24:10,713
boat

1433
00:24:10,777 --> 00:24:11,037
for

1434
00:24:11,407 --> 00:24:11,807
boat?

1435
00:24:12,027 --> 00:24:12,117
bit?

1436
00:24:12,403 --> 00:24:12,523
a bit?

1437
00:24:13,403 --> 00:24:13,783
Can I just

1438
00:24:13,783 --> 00:24:14,743
bu- the last point I'd

1439
00:24:14,973 --> 00:24:15,173
said

1440
00:24:15,173 --> 00:24:15,733
is, when

1441
00:24:15,737 --> 00:24:16,407
I read these

1442
00:24:16,553 --> 00:24:18,063
resignation letters, all of

1443
00:24:18,063 --> 00:24:18,213
them

1444
00:24:18,213 --> 00:24:19,573
say, I did a

1445
00:24:19,573 --> 00:24:20,463
fantastic job

1446
00:24:20,463 --> 00:24:21,513
as Manchester mayor.

1447
00:24:21,803 --> 00:24:22,833
I did a fantastic

1448
00:24:22,833 --> 00:24:26,353
job as health secretary." I think,
why don't you just stay there-

1449
00:24:26,473 --> 00:24:26,723
then

1450
00:24:27,273 --> 00:24:27,413
and

1451
00:24:27,417 --> 00:24:27,637
then you

1452
00:24:27,637 --> 00:24:28,117
can all do

1453
00:24:28,227 --> 00:24:28,607
brilliant

1454
00:24:28,607 --> 00:24:29,337
job, and we could

1455
00:24:29,337 --> 00:24:29,697
carry

1456
00:24:29,733 --> 00:24:29,993
on.

1457
00:24:30,399 --> 00:24:30,599
That's

1458
00:24:30,603 --> 00:24:31,713
what I've been trying to say.

1459
00:24:31,932 --> 00:24:32,852
Because it's the only time

1460
00:24:32,893 --> 00:24:33,553
that anyone is ever

1461
00:24:33,553 --> 00:24:34,153
going to listen

1462
00:24:34,262 --> 00:24:36,072
you talk about how hard it's been and how

1463
00:24:36,129 --> 00:24:37,289
you've done- in your job without

1464
00:24:37,892 --> 00:24:38,152
right?

1465
00:24:38,152 --> 00:24:40,552
You just have to go, "I tried
very hard and I won the 50 meters

1466
00:24:40,552 --> 00:24:42,082
swimming medal," and no one cared.

1467
00:24:42,252 --> 00:24:45,652
I'm gonna write a letter resigning as
host of Page 94, but saying I've driven us

1468
00:24:45,652 --> 00:24:47,632
to new metrics and new global audiences.

1469
00:24:47,632 --> 00:24:48,332
Yeah, I'm excited.

1470
00:24:48,332 --> 00:24:48,622
Okay.

1471
00:24:49,302 --> 00:24:49,562
Great.

1472
00:24:50,032 --> 00:24:50,402
can you do that

1473
00:24:50,523 --> 00:24:50,803
after

1474
00:24:50,803 --> 00:24:50,963
this

1475
00:24:51,252 --> 00:24:51,432
Yeah, all

1476
00:24:51,433 --> 00:24:51,523
will.

1477
00:24:51,523 --> 00:24:51,613
'Cause

1478
00:24:51,613 --> 00:24:52,233
I've spent time writing

1479
00:24:52,233 --> 00:24:52,593
this.

1480
00:24:52,803 --> 00:24:52,893
Yes.

1481
00:24:53,372 --> 00:24:53,872
we come now

1482
00:24:53,872 --> 00:24:54,962
to the quiz.

1483
00:24:55,072 --> 00:24:55,422
Helen, give

1484
00:24:55,463 --> 00:24:55,823
us the name of

1485
00:24:55,823 --> 00:24:56,243
the quiz.

1486
00:24:56,473 --> 00:24:56,713
Okay.

1487
00:24:56,713 --> 00:24:57,063
Th- You

1488
00:24:57,063 --> 00:24:58,233
wrote, this is like

1489
00:24:58,282 --> 00:24:58,882
resignation.

1490
00:24:58,912 --> 00:24:59,692
I was writing the things

1491
00:24:59,733 --> 00:25:01,403
I was... proud of was writing
the name of this quiz.

1492
00:25:01,513 --> 00:25:01,963
Faction

1493
00:25:01,963 --> 00:25:02,553
or Fiction.

1494
00:25:02,652 --> 00:25:03,152
Oh.

1495
00:25:03,152 --> 00:25:03,182
Hey.

1496
00:25:03,182 --> 00:25:03,576
Thank

1497
00:25:03,752 --> 00:25:03,792
you

1498
00:25:03,792 --> 00:25:03,912
Very

1499
00:25:03,952 --> 00:25:04,152
much.

1500
00:25:04,152 --> 00:25:04,952
It is, of course, about

1501
00:25:04,952 --> 00:25:05,012
the

1502
00:25:05,262 --> 00:25:05,492
people

1503
00:25:05,539 --> 00:25:06,299
vying for the Labour

1504
00:25:06,299 --> 00:25:06,739
leadership-

1505
00:25:06,852 --> 00:25:08,732
past candidates for the Labour leadership.

1506
00:25:08,802 --> 00:25:09,152
Okay.

1507
00:25:09,992 --> 00:25:12,922
With what hashtag did Angela
Rayner announce that she'd become a

1508
00:25:12,922 --> 00:25:13,712
a grandmother

1509
00:25:13,867 --> 00:25:14,012
at the

1510
00:25:14,172 --> 00:25:14,982
of 37?

1511
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:16,610
Agrandgela.

1512
00:25:16,949 --> 00:25:17,529
Very good.

1513
00:25:17,610 --> 00:25:17,640
Hey.

1514
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:18,760
Very good.

1515
00:25:19,260 --> 00:25:22,010
in 2015, Andy Burnham wore a T-shirt

1516
00:25:22,050 --> 00:25:22,980
declaring that he had never

1517
00:25:22,980 --> 00:25:23,990
done what to a

1518
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:24,500
Tory,

1519
00:25:25,069 --> 00:25:25,569
Kissed.

1520
00:25:26,369 --> 00:25:27,109
Tentatively.

1521
00:25:27,126 --> 00:25:27,616
Very

1522
00:25:27,809 --> 00:25:28,419
I wrote hopefully.

1523
00:25:28,679 --> 00:25:29,259
No, I remember that

1524
00:25:29,259 --> 00:25:29,549
phase

1525
00:25:29,559 --> 00:25:29,789
people

1526
00:25:29,829 --> 00:25:30,699
going around wearing "Never

1527
00:25:30,899 --> 00:25:31,669
a Tory" T-shirts.

1528
00:25:31,819 --> 00:25:32,519
it is correct.

1529
00:25:33,219 --> 00:25:33,669
the update

1530
00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:34,699
it was that when the Evening

1531
00:25:34,739 --> 00:25:35,449
Standard cornered

1532
00:25:35,659 --> 00:25:36,369
at late night

1533
00:25:36,409 --> 00:25:38,569
at, Labour Party conference,

1534
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:40,799
he said he had in fact kissed a Tory.

1535
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:41,436
snogging a

1536
00:25:41,496 --> 00:25:42,286
Tory, her name was

1537
00:25:42,286 --> 00:25:42,896
Octavia, and

1538
00:25:42,966 --> 00:25:43,186
went to

1539
00:25:43,186 --> 00:25:43,536
Trinity

1540
00:25:43,536 --> 00:25:43,976
College.

1541
00:25:44,472 --> 00:25:44,882
Oh, I thought you

1542
00:25:44,882 --> 00:25:45,292
were gonna say

1543
00:25:45,356 --> 00:25:45,626
William

1544
00:25:45,716 --> 00:25:46,016
Hague.

1545
00:25:46,016 --> 00:25:46,236
If

1546
00:25:48,141 --> 00:25:48,411
Which

1547
00:25:48,411 --> 00:25:48,501
of

1548
00:25:48,541 --> 00:25:49,111
the following

1549
00:25:49,111 --> 00:25:49,611
people

1550
00:25:49,731 --> 00:25:51,381
has Andy Burnham received fewer

1551
00:25:51,381 --> 00:25:51,721
votes

1552
00:25:51,721 --> 00:25:52,021
than

1553
00:25:52,391 --> 00:25:53,411
in a Labour leadership

1554
00:25:53,411 --> 00:25:53,851
election?

1555
00:25:54,581 --> 00:26:01,601
A, Ed Miliband, B, David Miliband,
C, Ed Balls, or D, Jeremy Corbyn.

1556
00:26:02,017 --> 00:26:02,677
It's all of them, isn't it?

1557
00:26:02,677 --> 00:26:04,027
It's all of the above, yeah.

1558
00:26:04,027 --> 00:26:04,497
you saw

1559
00:26:04,497 --> 00:26:05,317
through my ruse.

1560
00:26:05,317 --> 00:26:06,267
It's

1561
00:26:06,281 --> 00:26:07,591
a trick question, yes.

1562
00:26:07,791 --> 00:26:08,071
very good.

1563
00:26:08,071 --> 00:26:09,151
in 2010, he

1564
00:26:09,191 --> 00:26:09,491
placed

1565
00:26:09,491 --> 00:26:10,811
behind both Milibands

1566
00:26:10,871 --> 00:26:12,211
and TV favorite

1567
00:26:12,331 --> 00:26:12,771
Balls-

1568
00:26:13,191 --> 00:26:13,971
...
in the first round.

1569
00:26:14,681 --> 00:26:15,961
he did beat Diane Abbott, though.

1570
00:26:16,691 --> 00:26:16,891
Okay.

1571
00:26:16,891 --> 00:26:19,121
Who you remember was lent
the vote by- to get in

1572
00:26:19,121 --> 00:26:19,171
the

1573
00:26:19,671 --> 00:26:19,951
because

1574
00:26:19,977 --> 00:26:20,467
David Miliband

1575
00:26:20,671 --> 00:26:21,391
"
This is quite embarrassing.

1576
00:26:21,391 --> 00:26:22,041
We're all white men."

1577
00:26:22,811 --> 00:26:24,891
Establishing a precedent
that Labour MPs then followed

1578
00:26:24,991 --> 00:26:26,041
letting a left candidate in

1579
00:26:26,041 --> 00:26:27,831
2015. His name was

1580
00:26:27,867 --> 00:26:28,577
Jeremy Corbyn.

1581
00:26:29,101 --> 00:26:30,061
That went badly for them.

1582
00:26:30,746 --> 00:26:32,086
okay, in 2016,

1583
00:26:32,496 --> 00:26:33,566
Owen Smith challenged

1584
00:26:33,566 --> 00:26:34,426
Jeremy Corbyn

1585
00:26:34,426 --> 00:26:35,366
for the Labour leadership,

1586
00:26:35,676 --> 00:26:37,726
and the Labour left
successfully painted him

1587
00:26:37,726 --> 00:26:37,826
as

1588
00:26:37,826 --> 00:26:38,206
a big

1589
00:26:38,206 --> 00:26:41,906
pharma shill because of his previous
life as a lobbyist for Pfizer.

1590
00:26:42,916 --> 00:26:45,966
But which drug was He
forced to deny having used?

1591
00:26:46,776 --> 00:26:47,296
Viagra.

1592
00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:47,939
Correct.

1593
00:26:47,939 --> 00:26:48,209
Oh.

1594
00:26:48,209 --> 00:26:48,549
Yeah.

1595
00:26:49,059 --> 00:26:49,499
He

1596
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,020
It was

1597
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:50,380
Viagra.

1598
00:26:50,380 --> 00:26:50,520
He

1599
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:50,770
told

1600
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:51,540
Piers Morgan,

1601
00:26:51,610 --> 00:26:52,090
asked about

1602
00:26:52,090 --> 00:26:53,050
it somewhat inevitably.

1603
00:26:53,050 --> 00:26:53,320
Of course he

1604
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:53,500
did, Yeah,

1605
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:54,340
That's for me

1606
00:26:54,340 --> 00:26:54,500
and

1607
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:56,110
Mrs. Smith to know about."

1608
00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:56,700
Wow.

1609
00:26:56,928 --> 00:26:57,248
Yeah, he went

1610
00:26:57,284 --> 00:26:58,674
back to university.

1611
00:26:59,264 --> 00:26:59,794
Last Labour

1612
00:26:59,794 --> 00:27:00,734
candidate that who

1613
00:27:00,734 --> 00:27:01,734
could claim to have achieved growth.

1614
00:27:03,397 --> 00:27:03,447
It

1615
00:27:03,447 --> 00:27:04,607
didn't give him a bump in the polls?

1616
00:27:04,673 --> 00:27:04,833
Now

1617
00:27:04,833 --> 00:27:05,393
stop it.

1618
00:27:05,393 --> 00:27:05,603
Okay.

1619
00:27:05,603 --> 00:27:05,853
Okay.

1620
00:27:05,853 --> 00:27:05,953
All

1621
00:27:05,967 --> 00:27:06,467
of you,

1622
00:27:06,673 --> 00:27:07,493
think about what you've

1623
00:27:07,493 --> 00:27:07,793
done.

1624
00:27:08,383 --> 00:27:08,933
Also in

1625
00:27:08,933 --> 00:27:09,833
2016,

1626
00:27:10,087 --> 00:27:13,677
Angela Eagle's Labour leadership
campaign... Now, yeah, okay, remember

1627
00:27:13,677 --> 00:27:13,847
this?

1628
00:27:14,063 --> 00:27:14,163
Yeah

1629
00:27:14,203 --> 00:27:16,473
was blighted by what technical difficulty?

1630
00:27:16,963 --> 00:27:17,293
A,

1631
00:27:17,787 --> 00:27:20,977
she had lost her voice and had
to use gestures to indicate her

1632
00:27:21,017 --> 00:27:21,367
issues

1633
00:27:21,404 --> 00:27:21,794
with Jeremy

1634
00:27:21,794 --> 00:27:22,244
Corbyn.

1635
00:27:22,883 --> 00:27:24,493
Think

1636
00:27:24,587 --> 00:27:25,537
think, yeah, think to

1637
00:27:25,573 --> 00:27:26,043
yourself.

1638
00:27:26,923 --> 00:27:27,333
B,

1639
00:27:27,363 --> 00:27:29,283
one of the Tory leadership candidates

1640
00:27:29,297 --> 00:27:29,807
the same time

1641
00:27:29,807 --> 00:27:30,047
pulled

1642
00:27:30,093 --> 00:27:30,322
out of,

1643
00:27:30,363 --> 00:27:30,553
their

1644
00:27:31,037 --> 00:27:31,797
during her speech

1645
00:27:31,797 --> 00:27:32,797
causing all the journos to

1646
00:27:32,797 --> 00:27:33,287
flee.

1647
00:27:34,137 --> 00:27:35,237
C, the

1648
00:27:35,237 --> 00:27:36,697
day before, BBC News had

1649
00:27:36,757 --> 00:27:39,597
accidentally booked her
twin, Maria Eagle, to

1650
00:27:39,597 --> 00:27:39,977
talk about

1651
00:27:40,014 --> 00:27:40,494
the contest

1652
00:27:40,494 --> 00:27:40,554
on

1653
00:27:40,637 --> 00:27:41,087
Newsnight.

1654
00:27:41,744 --> 00:27:41,884
Or

1655
00:27:41,893 --> 00:27:42,423
D,

1656
00:27:42,637 --> 00:27:45,427
one of the banners at the front
of the hall collapsed revealing

1657
00:27:45,427 --> 00:27:46,827
Tom Watson hiding behind

1658
00:27:46,873 --> 00:27:47,023
it

1659
00:27:47,285 --> 00:27:48,155
that's brilliant.

1660
00:27:48,192 --> 00:27:48,422
I I

1661
00:27:48,431 --> 00:27:48,831
was gonna

1662
00:27:48,831 --> 00:27:49,051
say

1663
00:27:49,051 --> 00:27:50,191
B, but I remember it being

1664
00:27:50,191 --> 00:27:52,661
interrupted, not by Boris
Johnson dropping out,

1665
00:27:52,875 --> 00:27:53,545
but by him being

1666
00:27:53,545 --> 00:27:54,985
appointed foreign secretary, wasn't it?

1667
00:27:55,075 --> 00:27:56,985
No, you're smudging things
together in your mind.

1668
00:27:56,985 --> 00:27:57,175
Am

1669
00:27:57,175 --> 00:27:57,215
I?

1670
00:27:57,221 --> 00:27:57,391
I Okay.

1671
00:27:57,391 --> 00:27:57,741
I think it was-

1672
00:27:57,741 --> 00:27:57,871
I

1673
00:27:57,871 --> 00:27:58,021
think it

1674
00:27:58,021 --> 00:27:58,461
was B.

1675
00:27:58,645 --> 00:27:59,145
I think it was-

1676
00:27:59,461 --> 00:27:59,921
You think B, you're going B?

1677
00:27:59,921 --> 00:28:00,671
the same speech at the same time.

1678
00:28:00,671 --> 00:28:00,701
You're

1679
00:28:00,701 --> 00:28:01,001
going B?

1680
00:28:01,472 --> 00:28:01,712
You're going B?

1681
00:28:01,772 --> 00:28:04,492
I like the one where the
BBC books the wrong person.

1682
00:28:05,712 --> 00:28:06,382
twin, Maria

1683
00:28:06,745 --> 00:28:06,805
Yeah.

1684
00:28:06,851 --> 00:28:07,031
They were

1685
00:28:07,031 --> 00:28:08,001
both in the parliament

1686
00:28:08,025 --> 00:28:08,335
same time.

1687
00:28:08,615 --> 00:28:10,005
It was B. Ah.

1688
00:28:10,248 --> 00:28:12,018
it was Andrea Leadsom who pulled out.

1689
00:28:12,358 --> 00:28:12,948
Okay.

1690
00:28:13,028 --> 00:28:13,288
Yes.

1691
00:28:13,288 --> 00:28:15,508
She went for a question saying-
Leadsom ... "Can I take a question

1692
00:28:15,508 --> 00:28:17,928
from Robert Peston?" He wasn't there.

1693
00:28:17,998 --> 00:28:18,308
Oh.

1694
00:28:18,308 --> 00:28:18,448
He'd

1695
00:28:18,448 --> 00:28:18,938
left.

1696
00:28:19,118 --> 00:28:19,588
Oh.

1697
00:28:19,588 --> 00:28:20,128
And that,

1698
00:28:20,308 --> 00:28:20,658
it never

1699
00:28:20,658 --> 00:28:21,038
recovered.

1700
00:28:21,038 --> 00:28:22,668
Her whole, basically
her leadership campaign.

1701
00:28:22,668 --> 00:28:23,168
It's what they say, if you've

1702
00:28:23,168 --> 00:28:24,528
lost Peston, you've lost the leadership,

1703
00:28:24,629 --> 00:28:24,998
don't they?

1704
00:28:25,848 --> 00:28:27,508
Did Andrea Leadsom drop out because

1705
00:28:27,567 --> 00:28:27,597
a

1706
00:28:27,597 --> 00:28:28,007
CV

1707
00:28:28,007 --> 00:28:28,567
issue?

1708
00:28:28,927 --> 00:28:30,517
No, She dropped out- 'cause she said- No

1709
00:28:30,517 --> 00:28:32,557
Theresa May won't be able to
understand the country 'cause

1710
00:28:32,557 --> 00:28:33,447
she doesn't have children.

1711
00:28:33,847 --> 00:28:35,827
An incredible Times front page with that

1712
00:28:35,827 --> 00:28:36,897
interview with Andrea Leadsom,

1713
00:28:36,897 --> 00:28:41,457
and then Stephen Crabb had been sexting
a young person inappropriately, and just

1714
00:28:41,457 --> 00:28:43,437
the ti- one day, The Times just nuked

1715
00:28:44,047 --> 00:28:44,367
two of

1716
00:28:44,367 --> 00:28:44,537
them at

1717
00:28:44,578 --> 00:28:44,628
the

1718
00:28:44,837 --> 00:28:45,197
time.

1719
00:28:45,447 --> 00:28:48,577
for any younger viewers, maybe
the people on YouTube, just ask

1720
00:28:48,577 --> 00:28:49,897
your parents about all this.

1721
00:28:49,977 --> 00:28:50,369
Stephen

1722
00:28:50,472 --> 00:28:50,762
Crabb.

1723
00:28:50,762 --> 00:28:50,922
to

1724
00:28:50,987 --> 00:28:51,687
Stephen Crabb.

1725
00:28:51,732 --> 00:28:52,012
Just to

1726
00:28:52,012 --> 00:28:53,982
specify quite what a
brilliant media operator,

1727
00:28:54,137 --> 00:28:54,797
And- Andrea

1728
00:28:54,797 --> 00:28:55,537
Leadsom was, the

1729
00:28:55,572 --> 00:28:55,862
full

1730
00:28:56,137 --> 00:28:56,767
was something along

1731
00:28:56,767 --> 00:28:57,797
the lines of, "I

1732
00:28:57,832 --> 00:28:58,442
wouldn't want to say

1733
00:28:58,442 --> 00:28:58,932
this in public

1734
00:28:59,027 --> 00:29:00,037
it's really nasty."

1735
00:29:00,397 --> 00:29:00,527
"But

1736
00:29:00,548 --> 00:29:00,968
Theresa

1737
00:29:00,968 --> 00:29:01,178
wouldn't

1738
00:29:01,178 --> 00:29:02,068
be a good prime minister

1739
00:29:02,177 --> 00:29:02,887
she hasn't got

1740
00:29:02,887 --> 00:29:03,637
children," she

1741
00:29:03,682 --> 00:29:04,762
said to a journalist with a

1742
00:29:04,762 --> 00:29:05,512
tape recorder.

1743
00:29:05,512 --> 00:29:05,622
Said

1744
00:29:06,267 --> 00:29:06,407
Said

1745
00:29:06,467 --> 00:29:07,117
it once-

1746
00:29:07,117 --> 00:29:07,217
and-

1747
00:29:07,228 --> 00:29:09,158
it once- for the younger
people you've just referred

1748
00:29:09,158 --> 00:29:09,318
to,

1749
00:29:09,447 --> 00:29:09,887
it does

1750
00:29:09,887 --> 00:29:10,927
suggest that politics

1751
00:29:11,578 --> 00:29:13,078
doesn't just get worse.

1752
00:29:13,078 --> 00:29:13,138
Yeah.

1753
00:29:13,138 --> 00:29:14,848
It sometimes stays quite the same.

1754
00:29:15,062 --> 00:29:15,162
Oh,

1755
00:29:15,162 --> 00:29:15,302
that?

1756
00:29:15,302 --> 00:29:15,512
was

1757
00:29:15,677 --> 00:29:15,867
an...

1758
00:29:16,147 --> 00:29:18,357
I feel sad for anyone who can't
remember that, 'cause that was also

1759
00:29:18,712 --> 00:29:19,232
surely the

1760
00:29:19,232 --> 00:29:20,512
one where Boris Johnson was

1761
00:29:20,512 --> 00:29:20,732
going

1762
00:29:20,818 --> 00:29:21,358
stand, and

1763
00:29:21,487 --> 00:29:23,577
the morning of his campaign
launch, Michael Gove

1764
00:29:23,622 --> 00:29:24,192
knifed him.

1765
00:29:24,207 --> 00:29:24,447
and then he

1766
00:29:24,462 --> 00:29:24,742
he had to

1767
00:29:24,742 --> 00:29:25,812
go and give a speech

1768
00:29:25,982 --> 00:29:27,112
saying, "I'm not

1769
00:29:27,117 --> 00:29:27,937
going to stand." Yeah.

1770
00:29:27,997 --> 00:29:28,337
Yes.

1771
00:29:28,387 --> 00:29:28,757
And then

1772
00:29:28,802 --> 00:29:29,072
then Michael

1773
00:29:29,072 --> 00:29:29,472
And gloriously,

1774
00:29:29,507 --> 00:29:30,777
camera was on Nadine Dorries,

1775
00:29:30,777 --> 00:29:30,887
who

1776
00:29:30,887 --> 00:29:31,607
reacted, who'd been

1777
00:29:31,607 --> 00:29:32,937
expecting him to say, "I will be your next

1778
00:29:32,937 --> 00:29:34,797
prime minister," and just the, find it

1779
00:29:34,797 --> 00:29:34,897
on

1780
00:29:34,897 --> 00:29:36,687
YouTube, the look of
devastation that creeps

1781
00:29:36,687 --> 00:29:37,217
across her face as

1782
00:29:37,217 --> 00:29:38,507
she grabs the man next to her's arm.

1783
00:29:38,677 --> 00:29:38,847
Oh.

1784
00:29:38,937 --> 00:29:39,237
Oh.

1785
00:29:39,442 --> 00:29:39,802
It's worth it

1786
00:29:39,808 --> 00:29:40,068
Michael

1787
00:29:40,068 --> 00:29:41,807
Gove's finest hour.

1788
00:29:42,378 --> 00:29:43,468
Yeah,

1789
00:29:43,621 --> 00:29:43,868
definitely.

1790
00:29:43,868 --> 00:29:44,198
Okay,

1791
00:29:44,780 --> 00:29:48,830
riffing on Gerard Kaufman's famous
description of Michael Foot's 1983

1792
00:29:48,830 --> 00:29:51,340
manifesto, how did the journalist Chris

1793
00:29:51,340 --> 00:29:55,340
Deering once describe the Ed
Stone, Ed Miliband's obelisk of

1794
00:29:55,340 --> 00:29:56,170
electoral pledges?

1795
00:29:56,917 --> 00:29:59,347
the tallest suicide note in history?

1796
00:29:59,587 --> 00:30:00,137
Nearly.

1797
00:30:00,137 --> 00:30:00,387
So

1798
00:30:00,387 --> 00:30:00,827
nearly.

1799
00:30:01,054 --> 00:30:01,134
The

1800
00:30:01,134 --> 00:30:01,714
Hardest,

1801
00:30:01,894 --> 00:30:02,314
Yes,

1802
00:30:02,359 --> 00:30:03,249
yeah, that's where I was going.

1803
00:30:03,249 --> 00:30:04,689
I've gone back to Owen

1804
00:30:04,689 --> 00:30:04,929
Smith

1805
00:30:04,931 --> 00:30:05,061
and the

1806
00:30:05,061 --> 00:30:05,321
lime.

1807
00:30:05,321 --> 00:30:05,391
But,

1808
00:30:05,784 --> 00:30:05,934
bike.

1809
00:30:07,274 --> 00:30:08,294
It was the heaviest

1810
00:30:08,294 --> 00:30:08,934
suicide note

1811
00:30:09,111 --> 00:30:09,171
in

1812
00:30:09,171 --> 00:30:09,381
history.

1813
00:30:09,441 --> 00:30:09,551
Oh, Oh,

1814
00:30:09,551 --> 00:30:10,001
yes.

1815
00:30:10,074 --> 00:30:13,414
He described, the 1983 manifesto
of Labour as the longest suicide

1816
00:30:13,414 --> 00:30:13,704
note in

1817
00:30:13,704 --> 00:30:13,934
history.

1818
00:30:13,934 --> 00:30:14,324
Yes.

1819
00:30:14,529 --> 00:30:14,619
I

1820
00:30:14,734 --> 00:30:14,954
know who's

1821
00:30:14,954 --> 00:30:15,254
winning, but

1822
00:30:15,299 --> 00:30:15,729
I'm gonna give you

1823
00:30:15,781 --> 00:30:16,691
tiebreaker anyway.

1824
00:30:16,781 --> 00:30:17,301
It's Adam

1825
00:30:17,301 --> 00:30:17,821
who's winning.

1826
00:30:17,821 --> 00:30:17,951
Yeah,

1827
00:30:17,959 --> 00:30:18,349
it's Adam

1828
00:30:18,434 --> 00:30:18,684
winning.

1829
00:30:19,064 --> 00:30:19,284
he knew

1830
00:30:19,284 --> 00:30:19,534
about

1831
00:30:19,541 --> 00:30:20,181
1964.

1832
00:30:20,181 --> 00:30:20,271
In

1833
00:30:20,279 --> 00:30:20,829
what year?

1834
00:30:20,859 --> 00:30:21,489
The

1835
00:30:21,514 --> 00:30:21,854
late

1836
00:30:21,854 --> 00:30:22,114
Empire...

1837
00:30:22,199 --> 00:30:22,549
yeah,

1838
00:30:22,869 --> 00:30:22,959
yeah,

1839
00:30:23,709 --> 00:30:25,049
When pictured out running- Yes

1840
00:30:25,691 --> 00:30:25,841
Yes ... in

1841
00:30:25,904 --> 00:30:27,954
short shorts, Andy

1842
00:30:27,999 --> 00:30:30,029
Burnham was wearing a replica vintage

1843
00:30:30,034 --> 00:30:30,914
Everton shirt.

1844
00:30:31,074 --> 00:30:33,114
from which period of the club's history

1845
00:30:33,149 --> 00:30:33,429
did it come?

1846
00:30:33,581 --> 00:30:33,751
Ding,

1847
00:30:33,921 --> 00:30:34,401
ding, ding,

1848
00:30:34,409 --> 00:30:34,859
ding, 1980.

1849
00:30:35,259 --> 00:30:35,679
Oh my God.

1850
00:30:35,861 --> 00:30:35,921
I

1851
00:30:35,921 --> 00:30:37,441
got a football question right.

1852
00:30:38,444 --> 00:30:39,594
Ian and I

1853
00:30:39,639 --> 00:30:39,739
are

1854
00:30:39,781 --> 00:30:40,261
still trying to

1855
00:30:40,261 --> 00:30:40,651
understand the

1856
00:30:40,894 --> 00:30:41,594
of reference.

1857
00:30:42,454 --> 00:30:43,844
Can I, suggest that's a

1858
00:30:43,891 --> 00:30:45,571
sackable offense?

1859
00:30:45,811 --> 00:30:47,251
It won't happen

1860
00:30:47,251 --> 00:30:47,731
again, boss.

1861
00:30:47,731 --> 00:30:48,221
Definitely.

1862
00:30:48,351 --> 00:30:49,051
this Thank

1863
00:30:49,089 --> 00:30:50,309
I would like, to say
also- Yeah ... have you

1864
00:30:50,451 --> 00:30:50,801
he's gone out,

1865
00:30:51,169 --> 00:30:51,979
jogging again today

1866
00:30:51,979 --> 00:30:53,799
on the recording in rather longer shorts.

1867
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:54,039
Longer shorts.

1868
00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:54,199
Yeah,

1869
00:30:54,199 --> 00:30:54,239
I

1870
00:30:54,239 --> 00:30:55,439
think he decided that was a mistake.

1871
00:30:55,439 --> 00:30:55,559
I think

1872
00:30:55,559 --> 00:30:55,989
Mrs. Burnham's had a

1873
00:30:56,011 --> 00:30:56,231
a word

1874
00:30:56,231 --> 00:30:56,531
about

1875
00:30:56,789 --> 00:30:56,889
away

1876
00:30:56,889 --> 00:30:57,939
the 1970s

1877
00:30:58,044 --> 00:30:58,604
pants and,

1878
00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:59,569
yes,

1879
00:31:00,154 --> 00:31:00,744
Can, I just

1880
00:31:00,804 --> 00:31:01,134
ask-

1881
00:31:01,661 --> 00:31:01,821
Yes ... the

1882
00:31:01,821 --> 00:31:02,291
assembled...

1883
00:31:02,574 --> 00:31:03,004
and this is a

1884
00:31:03,061 --> 00:31:04,131
a serious political question.

1885
00:31:04,484 --> 00:31:04,594
do

1886
00:31:04,631 --> 00:31:07,511
you think on the day he knew
he was going to be photographed

1887
00:31:07,941 --> 00:31:13,331
running about, the shorts were an
error, carelessness, deliberate?

1888
00:31:14,154 --> 00:31:14,244
I

1889
00:31:14,289 --> 00:31:14,969
think he's got quite

1890
00:31:15,174 --> 00:31:15,504
legs,

1891
00:31:15,539 --> 00:31:17,189
and he thought he'd- I thought they
looked good ... why not show them off?

1892
00:31:17,189 --> 00:31:17,389
I'm sorry,

1893
00:31:17,389 --> 00:31:17,909
but I'm,

1894
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:17,959
a

1895
00:31:17,959 --> 00:31:18,169
fan

1896
00:31:18,169 --> 00:31:18,869
of the short-shorted

1897
00:31:18,869 --> 00:31:19,139
Burnham.

1898
00:31:19,139 --> 00:31:19,299
Yeah.

1899
00:31:19,544 --> 00:31:19,714
Yeah,

1900
00:31:20,004 --> 00:31:20,254
There we go.

1901
00:31:20,271 --> 00:31:20,851
we go.

1902
00:31:21,501 --> 00:31:21,981
that's, the

1903
00:31:21,981 --> 00:31:22,301
answer I

1904
00:31:22,301 --> 00:31:22,721
was hoping for.

1905
00:31:22,721 --> 00:31:24,281
Adam- UK's code for the boys

1906
00:31:24,281 --> 00:31:25,261
There's

1907
00:31:25,261 --> 00:31:25,681
your focus group.

1908
00:31:25,704 --> 00:31:25,794
Yeah.

1909
00:31:28,272 --> 00:31:28,652
right.

1910
00:31:28,711 --> 00:31:29,751
Now, for part two,

1911
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,600
Adam, you have reincarnated

1912
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:32,610
as Saba Salman.

1913
00:31:32,610 --> 00:31:32,840
Hello,

1914
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:33,210
Saba.

1915
00:31:33,510 --> 00:31:33,920
Hello.

1916
00:31:34,472 --> 00:31:34,782
Saba

1917
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:35,680
of Rotten Boroughs.

1918
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:36,320
You were last on

1919
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,950
a couple of, episodes ago when we were

1920
00:31:38,950 --> 00:31:40,950
doing a pre-mortem for

1921
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:41,990
the local elections,

1922
00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:42,940
and now it's time

1923
00:31:42,940 --> 00:31:43,620
inevitably for the

1924
00:31:43,620 --> 00:31:44,430
post-mortem.

1925
00:31:45,060 --> 00:31:45,610
How did you

1926
00:31:45,610 --> 00:31:45,840
do?

1927
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:46,150
How were

1928
00:31:46,150 --> 00:31:46,760
your predictions?

1929
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:46,910
Was

1930
00:31:46,971 --> 00:31:47,471
there anything

1931
00:31:47,730 --> 00:31:48,470
you were right or

1932
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:49,140
wrong about?

1933
00:31:50,074 --> 00:31:53,284
think my favorite bit was when one of
the election experts, and we had many-

1934
00:31:53,699 --> 00:31:53,749
... 
Mm-hmm

1935
00:31:53,954 --> 00:31:54,704
Professor

1936
00:31:54,804 --> 00:31:59,494
John Curtice said, "Really no
one's very popular." and that for

1937
00:31:59,494 --> 00:32:00,994
me kinda summed up a lot

1938
00:32:00,994 --> 00:32:02,034
of what was going on.

1939
00:32:02,064 --> 00:32:04,454
Nobody seemed very happy apart from,

1940
00:32:04,569 --> 00:32:07,589
a lot of Reform, candidates
who obviously got in.

1941
00:32:07,859 --> 00:32:09,059
So I think largely our

1942
00:32:09,059 --> 00:32:11,399
predictions were pretty spot on.

1943
00:32:11,894 --> 00:32:16,719
we talked about fragmentation, we talked
about the multi-parties, standing.

1944
00:32:17,166 --> 00:32:17,246
the

1945
00:32:17,246 --> 00:32:22,146
fact that, a lot of new candidates
are coming in with no experience,

1946
00:32:22,569 --> 00:32:22,909
that's,

1947
00:32:22,954 --> 00:32:23,074
That

1948
00:32:23,255 --> 00:32:23,505
one of

1949
00:32:23,505 --> 00:32:24,255
your points.

1950
00:32:24,255 --> 00:32:24,515
That was

1951
00:32:24,515 --> 00:32:24,755
one of

1952
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:25,359
points,

1953
00:32:25,419 --> 00:32:27,869
and not just restricted to a single party.

1954
00:32:27,869 --> 00:32:31,553
So I think, if you look at the map of
England, if you're looking at England,

1955
00:32:32,263 --> 00:32:37,473
down the right-hand side, you've got the
teal, a chonky teal bit, which is Reform.

1956
00:32:38,143 --> 00:32:43,223
down in the boot on the left
southwest sort of side, you've got the

1957
00:32:43,223 --> 00:32:44,753
orange segment.

1958
00:32:45,703 --> 00:32:46,313
moving up,

1959
00:32:46,683 --> 00:32:47,813
it's no longer a red wall,

1960
00:32:48,593 --> 00:32:49,213
more like a

1961
00:32:50,233 --> 00:32:51,993
red windowsill- Trellis maybe.

1962
00:32:51,993 --> 00:32:52,053
Yeah

1963
00:32:52,058 --> 00:32:52,638
... 
or a trellis,

1964
00:32:53,058 --> 00:32:54,458
veranda- lots of holes in it.

1965
00:32:54,598 --> 00:32:54,738
Yeah

1966
00:32:54,873 --> 00:32:56,283
... 
windowsill, something like that.

1967
00:32:56,903 --> 00:32:59,723
and then in London, you come
to London, and it's just a

1968
00:32:59,723 --> 00:33:01,513
complete mess.

1969
00:33:02,803 --> 00:33:04,483
so it's a bit more

1970
00:33:04,483 --> 00:33:06,793
Jackson Pollock-y, I think- ... there.

1971
00:33:06,963 --> 00:33:07,703
That's London for you.

1972
00:33:07,813 --> 00:33:07,923
Yeah.

1973
00:33:07,923 --> 00:33:11,243
Yeah, so round the outside of
London you've got some blue.

1974
00:33:11,243 --> 00:33:11,493
You've

1975
00:33:11,493 --> 00:33:13,573
still got some Tory boroughs.

1976
00:33:14,123 --> 00:33:14,783
The doughnut,

1977
00:33:14,843 --> 00:33:15,883
as I believe- The
doughnut ... they used to call it.

1978
00:33:15,883 --> 00:33:16,013
Yes.

1979
00:33:16,043 --> 00:33:16,193
Yes.

1980
00:33:16,193 --> 00:33:16,903
Like the idea of outer London.

1981
00:33:16,903 --> 00:33:17,143
I like that

1982
00:33:17,143 --> 00:33:17,613
analogy.

1983
00:33:17,613 --> 00:33:17,763
Yeah.

1984
00:33:17,763 --> 00:33:18,023
Yes,

1985
00:33:18,023 --> 00:33:21,123
it's more down to earth than the
Jackson Pollock, but I like that Yes.

1986
00:33:21,439 --> 00:33:23,459
and you've got Havering, in

1987
00:33:23,459 --> 00:33:25,389
the east that's gone, to Reform.

1988
00:33:25,929 --> 00:33:27,299
some Green action going

1989
00:33:27,299 --> 00:33:27,499
on.

1990
00:33:27,969 --> 00:33:30,889
And then other boroughs, Croydon,
for example, that we feature a,

1991
00:33:30,889 --> 00:33:34,859
lot in the boroughs, which has
suddenly got five different parties.

1992
00:33:34,859 --> 00:33:39,279
So you've got Labour, Tory,
independent, Reform, Green

1993
00:33:39,739 --> 00:33:40,209
No overall

1994
00:33:40,209 --> 00:33:44,079
control but a Conservative
mayor who just scraped in-

1995
00:33:44,165 --> 00:33:44,255
Oh ...who

1996
00:33:44,309 --> 00:33:46,749
who we've just covered in the
boroughs, which means that

1997
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:48,589
although there's no overall

1998
00:33:48,589 --> 00:33:51,929
control, the swing is with the
Tories, so effectively it's

1999
00:33:52,283 --> 00:33:53,179
Conservative- Conservative ... run.

2000
00:33:53,691 --> 00:33:53,791
can

2001
00:33:53,791 --> 00:33:55,721
I ask about the phenomenon
you described of people with

2002
00:33:55,721 --> 00:33:57,911
very little experience, getting

2003
00:33:58,041 --> 00:33:58,461
in?

2004
00:33:58,521 --> 00:33:59,911
What is a more common

2005
00:33:59,971 --> 00:34:03,531
route for people who are thinking
about putting their hat in the

2006
00:34:03,531 --> 00:34:04,471
ring to become a counselor?

2007
00:34:04,471 --> 00:34:06,961
What's the normal route
which is being deviated

2008
00:34:06,961 --> 00:34:07,351
from here?

2009
00:34:07,521 --> 00:34:11,251
I think most of the people who've
proved they can do the job come

2010
00:34:11,251 --> 00:34:12,771
up through the community network.

2011
00:34:13,111 --> 00:34:16,061
so they might be, a
particularly active resident.

2012
00:34:17,123 --> 00:34:17,303
they've

2013
00:34:17,481 --> 00:34:18,781
in the area locally.

2014
00:34:19,091 --> 00:34:24,487
but what we've seen with this surge of
1,500, particularly the Reform councilors,

2015
00:34:24,487 --> 00:34:26,417
is people coming in with not much clue.

2016
00:34:27,247 --> 00:34:28,847
and that literally extends to.

2017
00:34:28,847 --> 00:34:29,517
not knowing

2018
00:34:29,517 --> 00:34:30,297
which Council,

2019
00:34:30,657 --> 00:34:31,817
you've just been elected to.

2020
00:34:32,187 --> 00:34:32,357
So

2021
00:34:32,637 --> 00:34:32,907
there's

2022
00:34:32,907 --> 00:34:33,607
somebody,

2023
00:34:33,607 --> 00:34:33,697
a

2024
00:34:33,697 --> 00:34:38,357
shout-out to Kidsgrove News,
a local independent news

2025
00:34:38,357 --> 00:34:40,827
site, which, reported that a,

2026
00:34:40,827 --> 00:34:45,157
councilor who was, elected
to Newcastle-under-Lyme

2027
00:34:45,627 --> 00:34:49,916
Borough Council, rocked
up at Kidsgrove Town

2028
00:34:49,916 --> 00:34:53,396
Council, which is a parish,
because she got confused.

2029
00:34:53,396 --> 00:34:56,806
about the name of the ward
in Newcastle, Town Ward.

2030
00:34:57,563 --> 00:34:59,353
so she therefore- I can...
I'm confused to be fair

2031
00:34:59,353 --> 00:34:59,653
You're confused.

2032
00:35:00,003 --> 00:35:00,133
there

2033
00:35:00,133 --> 00:35:00,503
you go.

2034
00:35:00,533 --> 00:35:00,763
Let's

2035
00:35:00,824 --> 00:35:01,114
give her some credit.

2036
00:35:01,174 --> 00:35:01,624
But I wasn't

2037
00:35:01,734 --> 00:35:02,224
st- I wasn't

2038
00:35:02,513 --> 00:35:02,663
to be

2039
00:35:02,663 --> 00:35:03,603
elected there, so you know.

2040
00:35:03,783 --> 00:35:03,953
Yeah.

2041
00:35:03,983 --> 00:35:04,183
Yeah.

2042
00:35:04,213 --> 00:35:05,743
I think it's this- If it
had been a Newcastle upon

2043
00:35:05,743 --> 00:35:07,383
Tyne and Newcastle-under-Lyme

2044
00:35:07,383 --> 00:35:08,093
situation- Yes

2045
00:35:08,093 --> 00:35:08,613
then you'd got really worried.

2046
00:35:08,753 --> 00:35:09,083
admittedly

2047
00:35:09,083 --> 00:35:09,203
it

2048
00:35:09,203 --> 00:35:09,893
is confusing.

2049
00:35:09,893 --> 00:35:10,173
Although I

2050
00:35:10,173 --> 00:35:10,333
would

2051
00:35:10,333 --> 00:35:10,553
like

2052
00:35:10,553 --> 00:35:13,913
to think that, most people who put
themselves forward for this- Yes ... would

2053
00:35:13,993 --> 00:35:18,893
probably have checked where they
were standing a- and why, and know.

2054
00:35:19,303 --> 00:35:22,173
and the backdrop to this is that
the election agent was a certain

2055
00:35:22,173 --> 00:35:26,573
Jonathan Gullis, who eagle-eyed
readers, i readers might remember.

2056
00:35:26,943 --> 00:35:27,233
I think he

2057
00:35:27,233 --> 00:35:30,263
was appointed as an
undersecretary by Liz Truss, so-

2058
00:35:30,884 --> 00:35:31,274
... 
whether or not,

2059
00:35:31,514 --> 00:35:31,574
know,

2060
00:35:31,614 --> 00:35:32,214
his latest

2061
00:35:32,354 --> 00:35:32,894
protege

2062
00:35:33,473 --> 00:35:35,123
lasts longer than a lettuce, I don't know.

2063
00:35:35,123 --> 00:35:35,823
but The Truss,

2064
00:35:35,853 --> 00:35:37,243
the Truss magic lives on.

2065
00:35:37,243 --> 00:35:37,523
I know,

2066
00:35:37,523 --> 00:35:38,193
doesn't it?

2067
00:35:38,801 --> 00:35:40,461
and then over in Suffolk,

2068
00:35:41,461 --> 00:35:44,271
we've got a situation where the
new Reform leader has come in

2069
00:35:44,271 --> 00:35:46,425
and said, "We need some training

2070
00:35:47,055 --> 00:35:47,175
to

2071
00:35:47,515 --> 00:35:48,365
get up to speed.

2072
00:35:48,808 --> 00:35:49,748
so we think we need

2073
00:35:49,748 --> 00:35:53,738
about six months of training and
then an intensive day for our raft

2074
00:35:53,738 --> 00:35:58,208
of councilors." And I think to most
people who don't know a lot about local

2075
00:35:58,208 --> 00:36:02,318
government or public sector, most of
us hire people for a job that know

2076
00:36:02,453 --> 00:36:03,183
how to do it,

2077
00:36:03,218 --> 00:36:04,418
as opposed to turning

2078
00:36:04,418 --> 00:36:04,718
up

2079
00:36:05,198 --> 00:36:06,778
and going, "Where do I start?"

2080
00:36:07,383 --> 00:36:08,763
we're not talking about internships.

2081
00:36:08,763 --> 00:36:10,173
We're talking about directly

2082
00:36:10,243 --> 00:36:13,453
elected officials- Yeah ... who
are, who have a job to do

2083
00:36:13,453 --> 00:36:14,793
and are controlling budgets.

2084
00:36:14,863 --> 00:36:16,513
But there is some training
and briefing if you're

2085
00:36:16,513 --> 00:36:17,313
"
newly elected as a

2086
00:36:17,313 --> 00:36:18,093
councilor- Yes, of course.

2087
00:36:18,093 --> 00:36:18,503
I presume.

2088
00:36:18,833 --> 00:36:18,903
Yeah.

2089
00:36:19,043 --> 00:36:19,393
there, there's

2090
00:36:19,393 --> 00:36:20,243
all sorts of things.

2091
00:36:20,243 --> 00:36:20,513
There's,

2092
00:36:20,753 --> 00:36:22,013
you have your political group in a

2093
00:36:22,013 --> 00:36:22,753
council.

2094
00:36:24,253 --> 00:36:26,673
you might wanna do your
own research, perhaps.

2095
00:36:26,703 --> 00:36:29,623
But- look at the council
handbook, download it.

2096
00:36:30,283 --> 00:36:32,823
there's also something called the
Local Government Association, for

2097
00:36:32,823 --> 00:36:34,613
example, which is a membership body,

2098
00:36:34,933 --> 00:36:36,553
that most councils belong to, and within

2099
00:36:36,553 --> 00:36:39,963
that, each political party has a presence.

2100
00:36:40,133 --> 00:36:43,133
So at the LGA, Local Government
Association, you have your

2101
00:36:43,133 --> 00:36:44,183
own little group office.

2102
00:36:44,633 --> 00:36:46,483
And interestingly, I have been checking,

2103
00:36:46,863 --> 00:36:50,933
and the Green Party does not
appear to be represented, at the

2104
00:36:50,933 --> 00:36:53,463
LGA with its own political office,

2105
00:36:54,203 --> 00:36:54,433
which

2106
00:36:54,783 --> 00:36:55,473
is interesting.

2107
00:36:55,703 --> 00:36:58,743
they might have chosen not to, but
considering they've come in with a

2108
00:36:58,743 --> 00:37:01,943
bunch of councilors and now control four
councils, and they've got these mayors,

2109
00:37:02,533 --> 00:37:04,263
they might wanna have a presence there.

2110
00:37:04,543 --> 00:37:06,813
Whether it's the website's
not been updated, I

2111
00:37:06,813 --> 00:37:07,233
don't know.

2112
00:37:07,273 --> 00:37:07,883
But it's just

2113
00:37:07,883 --> 00:37:08,563
interesting,

2114
00:37:08,813 --> 00:37:11,573
one of the interesting things about Hannah
Spencer running for that seat in Gorton

2115
00:37:11,573 --> 00:37:15,233
and Denton, she's got a family who lots of
them have worked in politics, and that was

2116
00:37:15,233 --> 00:37:17,303
just completely never mentioned, right?

2117
00:37:17,363 --> 00:37:17,843
It was all about

2118
00:37:17,843 --> 00:37:18,673
she's a plumber.

2119
00:37:19,153 --> 00:37:19,463
She's got a

2120
00:37:19,513 --> 00:37:19,873
a normal

2121
00:37:19,904 --> 00:37:20,084
job,

2122
00:37:20,153 --> 00:37:20,853
she's just happened.

2123
00:37:20,853 --> 00:37:23,883
This is, she's stumbled into
politics almost because that would

2124
00:37:23,883 --> 00:37:25,123
seem to be a much more appealing

2125
00:37:25,123 --> 00:37:25,893
message to people.

2126
00:37:26,163 --> 00:37:26,863
And that seems to be

2127
00:37:26,973 --> 00:37:27,693
what you're

2128
00:37:27,943 --> 00:37:28,303
about, right?

2129
00:37:28,303 --> 00:37:29,623
That actually there's a

2130
00:37:29,633 --> 00:37:29,793
l- a

2131
00:37:29,833 --> 00:37:30,493
sort of love

2132
00:37:30,524 --> 00:37:30,704
for

2133
00:37:30,723 --> 00:37:31,003
the fact

2134
00:37:31,003 --> 00:37:32,023
that you're a, quote-unquote,

2135
00:37:32,103 --> 00:37:34,013
"ordinary person," not
a career politician.

2136
00:37:34,253 --> 00:37:35,143
I think it's difficult.

2137
00:37:35,493 --> 00:37:38,113
I absolutely agree That if
you're a bit edgy, you've got no

2138
00:37:38,113 --> 00:37:39,633
experience, let's give it a go.

2139
00:37:39,633 --> 00:37:40,323
I'm learning on the

2140
00:37:40,323 --> 00:37:41,913
job, I think where a lot of

2141
00:37:41,913 --> 00:37:47,103
people, who, vote have a
problem with it is That you are

2142
00:37:47,103 --> 00:37:47,873
trusting

2143
00:37:48,713 --> 00:37:49,963
in somebody who

2144
00:37:49,963 --> 00:37:52,773
has absolutely no idea what they're doing.

2145
00:37:52,803 --> 00:37:53,843
I don't mean Hannah Spencer.

2146
00:37:54,773 --> 00:37:55,593
there are exceptions.

2147
00:37:55,593 --> 00:37:58,513
There are people who've been rumbling
around their communities- doing great

2148
00:37:58,513 --> 00:38:02,133
work, painting the community center
or whatever it is, being a teaching

2149
00:38:02,133 --> 00:38:03,373
assistant, whatever it may be.

2150
00:38:03,783 --> 00:38:05,253
They're really embedded
in their communities, and

2151
00:38:05,463 --> 00:38:06,363
they've, got no,

2152
00:38:06,815 --> 00:38:07,755
political career.

2153
00:38:07,975 --> 00:38:09,415
they don't wanna climb
the gl- greasy pole.

2154
00:38:09,415 --> 00:38:13,685
But then on the flip side, you've
got people, like, you know, well, we

2155
00:38:13,685 --> 00:38:16,865
talked about the Warwickshire, teenage
Warwickshire leader before in the

2156
00:38:16,865 --> 00:38:22,655
last podcast I was in, George Finch,
who clearly has his eyes set firmly

2157
00:38:23,535 --> 00:38:23,725
on

2158
00:38:23,725 --> 00:38:24,425
Westminster.

2159
00:38:25,118 --> 00:38:25,308
Is

2160
00:38:25,370 --> 00:38:25,980
the argument that

2161
00:38:26,004 --> 00:38:26,124
that

2162
00:38:26,624 --> 00:38:26,704
the

2163
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,480
officers are meant to know how to do this

2164
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:28,910
stuff

2165
00:38:29,984 --> 00:38:30,104
so

2166
00:38:30,453 --> 00:38:30,803
you're not

2167
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,680
completely saying, it's hopeless.

2168
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:34,950
None of these people
know how to do anything"?

2169
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:38,175
There are- There is a group of
non-political people there already.

2170
00:38:38,263 --> 00:38:38,863
Absolutely.

2171
00:38:38,863 --> 00:38:39,003
So

2172
00:38:39,003 --> 00:38:43,623
if you use the analogy, in a way
of, central government, you've got

2173
00:38:43,623 --> 00:38:45,543
the elected member, and then you've

2174
00:38:45,543 --> 00:38:48,593
got, the civil servants who
know what they're doing.

2175
00:38:49,163 --> 00:38:51,043
and I think what's interesting
about what's happening

2176
00:38:51,043 --> 00:38:51,543
now,

2177
00:38:52,423 --> 00:38:54,533
is I'm sure what happens in
central government, is that

2178
00:38:54,533 --> 00:38:55,813
you've got all of these,

2179
00:38:56,849 --> 00:38:57,139
many,

2180
00:38:57,477 --> 00:39:02,847
officers, paid officials who are
non-political going, "Oh my God,

2181
00:39:03,207 --> 00:39:07,077
what is going on here?" because
all of a sudden you've got a

2182
00:39:07,077 --> 00:39:08,637
bunch of new people coming in.

2183
00:39:09,094 --> 00:39:12,654
suddenly maybe your council's gone
into no overall control, so that means,

2184
00:39:13,044 --> 00:39:16,134
as we said last time on the podcast,
that decisions may take longer-

2185
00:39:16,674 --> 00:39:16,774
to

2186
00:39:16,774 --> 00:39:17,344
get through.

2187
00:39:17,924 --> 00:39:18,774
and certainly,

2188
00:39:19,704 --> 00:39:23,974
on Rotten Boroughs, we have had
communications from people who work in

2189
00:39:23,974 --> 00:39:26,324
councils, whose name
shall not be revealed-

2190
00:39:26,751 --> 00:39:29,581
who are saying, in all
seriousness, "We're really worried.

2191
00:39:30,721 --> 00:39:33,541
We're really worried because
we've had these policies, we've

2192
00:39:33,621 --> 00:39:37,111
got, kids with special needs,
we've got housing crisis, we've

2193
00:39:37,171 --> 00:39:41,831
got bankrupt council, and
we've suddenly got people who

2194
00:39:41,871 --> 00:39:46,248
have never represented, a
local, community before."

2195
00:39:46,825 --> 00:39:47,785
some people,

2196
00:39:48,055 --> 00:39:52,145
as you've said, have applied and
they've got no experience, and that

2197
00:39:52,285 --> 00:39:54,995
there's a slightly different phenomenon,
which is where you've got, as we say,

2198
00:39:54,995 --> 00:39:57,095
paper candidates who didn't expect

2199
00:39:57,095 --> 00:39:57,155
to

2200
00:39:57,165 --> 00:39:57,465
to win at

2201
00:39:57,525 --> 00:39:58,765
all, didn't think they would,

2202
00:39:59,075 --> 00:39:59,215
are,

2203
00:39:59,215 --> 00:40:01,025
really just there to be a

2204
00:40:01,025 --> 00:40:04,295
name to represent their party or the
party they support, and then they

2205
00:40:04,295 --> 00:40:04,875
end up winning.

2206
00:40:05,165 --> 00:40:05,735
That's right, and

2207
00:40:05,735 --> 00:40:08,375
I think we saw some of this
with the last local elections

2208
00:40:08,375 --> 00:40:10,255
particularly, again, with Reform.

2209
00:40:10,865 --> 00:40:14,525
but I think also there are, there
are reports that this happened

2210
00:40:14,735 --> 00:40:16,315
amongst Green candidates as well.

2211
00:40:16,775 --> 00:40:20,635
And so what you have is a few days after
the election results were announced,

2212
00:40:21,235 --> 00:40:25,255
you had stories of certain councilors,
I believe they were Reform councilors,

2213
00:40:25,255 --> 00:40:26,265
going off on holiday,

2214
00:40:27,315 --> 00:40:31,285
because they didn't really think they'd
get in and quite fancied a break.

2215
00:40:31,965 --> 00:40:35,745
and I think, according to Mark
Pack, who's a Lib Dem peer,

2216
00:40:36,085 --> 00:40:37,215
who has a very good tracker,

2217
00:40:37,505 --> 00:40:40,095
keeps track of, the amount
of councilors from Reform

2218
00:40:40,275 --> 00:40:40,545
who've

2219
00:40:41,075 --> 00:40:42,605
departed for various reasons.

2220
00:40:43,035 --> 00:40:47,155
I think we've had about 10
who've left since May the 7th-

2221
00:40:47,205 --> 00:40:47,465
7th-

2222
00:40:48,245 --> 00:40:48,825
this year.

2223
00:40:49,056 --> 00:40:49,516
That's quite a

2224
00:40:49,556 --> 00:40:49,696
lot.

2225
00:40:49,825 --> 00:40:49,875
That's,

2226
00:40:49,925 --> 00:40:50,475
quite a lot.

2227
00:40:50,475 --> 00:40:54,175
In addition to the 70 or so
that had left bet- you know, b-

2228
00:40:54,795 --> 00:40:57,355
from last May, the last lot of

2229
00:40:57,355 --> 00:40:58,625
local elections to now.

2230
00:40:58,815 --> 00:40:59,765
and that's money, "Right, yes.

2231
00:40:59,765 --> 00:41:00,245
Because they'll have

2232
00:41:00,245 --> 00:41:00,345
the

2233
00:41:00,345 --> 00:41:00,775
...those...

2234
00:41:00,825 --> 00:41:00,935
They,

2235
00:41:00,975 --> 00:41:03,075
you can't just appoint new
people to those positions.

2236
00:41:03,075 --> 00:41:04,915
They'll have to rerun those elections.

2237
00:41:05,201 --> 00:41:09,801
given that, Reform in particular
is about efficiency, and, let's

2238
00:41:09,801 --> 00:41:10,921
not single out Reform here.

2239
00:41:10,921 --> 00:41:12,351
It happens with other parties as well.

2240
00:41:13,211 --> 00:41:15,821
but if you're trying to save
money and the average by-election

2241
00:41:15,881 --> 00:41:17,611
and award costs about 20 grand-

2242
00:41:19,306 --> 00:41:20,116
That's not a great

2243
00:41:20,116 --> 00:41:22,366
use of funds, is It And we?

2244
00:41:22,366 --> 00:41:23,697
mentioned Croydon, for example.

2245
00:41:23,756 --> 00:41:28,276
Lynn's example there at the moment where
the green,  candidate was suspended

2246
00:41:28,276 --> 00:41:30,776
shortly before the election, but too
late to be taken off the, ballot.

2247
00:41:30,776 --> 00:41:31,046
paper.

2248
00:41:31,046 --> 00:41:34,336
Now this has happened, this happened with
an Aspire candidate in Tower Hamlets.

2249
00:41:34,336 --> 00:41:36,276
It's happened with other
candidates elsewhere.

2250
00:41:36,765 --> 00:41:37,895
and so he remained

2251
00:41:37,895 --> 00:41:38,515
on the ballot He got

2252
00:41:38,515 --> 00:41:40,075
elected, and he's currently under

2253
00:41:40,075 --> 00:41:46,257
investigation for allegedly making
antisemitic, sorry, perpetuating- posts

2254
00:41:46,517 --> 00:41:46,917
online.

2255
00:41:47,709 --> 00:41:52,109
Can I say that the reaction to the lack of
experience from my reading of the boroughs

2256
00:41:52,169 --> 00:41:52,289
is,

2257
00:41:53,287 --> 00:41:53,647
they come

2258
00:41:53,689 --> 00:41:53,749
in

2259
00:41:53,789 --> 00:41:54,409
and they say

2260
00:41:55,577 --> 00:41:55,857
it's

2261
00:41:55,969 --> 00:41:56,469
day one.

2262
00:41:56,569 --> 00:41:56,889
We're going

2263
00:41:56,949 --> 00:41:58,934
to, eliminate all the waste.

2264
00:41:59,254 --> 00:41:59,994
We're going to free

2265
00:42:00,074 --> 00:42:00,794
Palestine.

2266
00:42:01,064 --> 00:42:01,454
"We're going

2267
00:42:01,574 --> 00:42:01,934
to

2268
00:42:01,994 --> 00:42:04,674
stop woke nonsense," whatever the agenda

2269
00:42:04,694 --> 00:42:04,764
is.

2270
00:42:05,014 --> 00:42:05,554
And then day

2271
00:42:05,614 --> 00:42:06,424
four they say,

2272
00:42:06,964 --> 00:42:08,334
"I think we're gonna have to put the rates

2273
00:42:08,412 --> 00:42:08,492
up."

2274
00:42:08,648 --> 00:42:08,738
up."

2275
00:42:09,032 --> 00:42:09,092
Yeah.

2276
00:42:09,383 --> 00:42:09,703
Yes.

2277
00:42:09,913 --> 00:42:10,973
And, they come in exactly

2278
00:42:10,973 --> 00:42:11,173
that.

2279
00:42:11,173 --> 00:42:12,803
They come in and say,
"We're gonna stop the boats.

2280
00:42:12,803 --> 00:42:14,143
We're gonna fix the NHS.

2281
00:42:14,753 --> 00:42:17,363
we're gonna get rid of, with the
climate change non- nonsense, we're

2282
00:42:17,363 --> 00:42:21,543
gonna get rid of net zero." and what
they fail to realize is, number one,

2283
00:42:22,293 --> 00:42:23,473
local authorities have no,

2284
00:42:24,413 --> 00:42:26,763
duty, no responsibility,
no power to do that.

2285
00:42:27,163 --> 00:42:29,993
But number two, there are s-
processes you have to go through.

2286
00:42:29,993 --> 00:42:31,903
So for example, you come
in, you have to wait for the

2287
00:42:31,903 --> 00:42:36,003
full council meeting to be
elected, for example, as the leader

2288
00:42:36,753 --> 00:42:38,073
you have different committees.

2289
00:42:38,073 --> 00:42:38,933
There's all sorts

2290
00:42:38,933 --> 00:42:41,693
of machinations that people don't know

2291
00:42:41,693 --> 00:42:42,263
about.

2292
00:42:42,770 --> 00:42:43,110
the point

2293
00:42:43,470 --> 00:42:43,550
you

2294
00:42:43,558 --> 00:42:44,418
always make is

2295
00:42:44,890 --> 00:42:45,240
there really

2296
00:42:45,310 --> 00:42:46,270
isn't any money.

2297
00:42:46,928 --> 00:42:47,058
No,

2298
00:42:47,348 --> 00:42:47,378
absolutely.

2299
00:42:47,420 --> 00:42:48,110
They're not pretending

2300
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:48,350
there's

2301
00:42:48,370 --> 00:42:48,850
no money.

2302
00:42:48,990 --> 00:42:49,129
No.

2303
00:42:49,290 --> 00:42:49,450
And- there

2304
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:50,170
isn't any money.

2305
00:42:50,268 --> 00:42:51,328
but we didn't

2306
00:42:51,348 --> 00:42:52,728
hear much of that during

2307
00:42:52,750 --> 00:42:52,810
the

2308
00:42:52,850 --> 00:42:53,270
election,

2309
00:42:53,348 --> 00:42:53,428
did

2310
00:42:53,438 --> 00:42:53,588
we?

2311
00:42:53,728 --> 00:42:54,038
No.

2312
00:42:54,108 --> 00:42:59,298
And I think that, there is no
money, and that money, has not

2313
00:42:59,298 --> 00:43:00,768
been there for a long time.

2314
00:43:00,768 --> 00:43:03,218
So it's successive years where
there's less and less money

2315
00:43:03,218 --> 00:43:04,208
coming in from local government.

2316
00:43:04,208 --> 00:43:05,578
So obviously you're having to raise

2317
00:43:05,578 --> 00:43:06,478
the council tax.

2318
00:43:06,478 --> 00:43:07,658
So one of the

2319
00:43:07,658 --> 00:43:09,468
areas we've talked about in the past is

2320
00:43:09,468 --> 00:43:11,578
Worcestershire County
Council, where they've

2321
00:43:11,578 --> 00:43:15,958
had to put up, council tax by, 9%.

2322
00:43:16,678 --> 00:43:17,928
now, that's a Reform

2323
00:43:17,928 --> 00:43:19,518
council that was voted in

2324
00:43:19,768 --> 00:43:20,638
last year.

2325
00:43:21,538 --> 00:43:21,778
and it

2326
00:43:21,808 --> 00:43:22,708
it inherited

2327
00:43:23,468 --> 00:43:25,088
massive financial difficulty.

2328
00:43:25,418 --> 00:43:31,818
So coming in saying, generally the
party, approach is council tax low,

2329
00:43:32,268 --> 00:43:33,828
they've obviously been unable to do that.

2330
00:43:34,490 --> 00:43:38,210
Worcestershire in particular, if we
want to We talked about the predictions.

2331
00:43:38,820 --> 00:43:41,600
so one interesting thing is to
look at the councils that have

2332
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,750
been run, by Reform in, last surge.

2333
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:45,490
a year

2334
00:43:45,490 --> 00:43:47,070
ago they came in, say Worcestershire.

2335
00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:48,940
That's completely imploded.

2336
00:43:49,563 --> 00:43:52,673
the leader of the council has been
ousted by a coalition of other

2337
00:43:52,673 --> 00:43:53,343
parties.

2338
00:43:54,003 --> 00:43:55,193
she's been suspended,

2339
00:43:55,613 --> 00:43:59,443
and her son, who's also a Reform
councilor in a borough council just

2340
00:43:59,443 --> 00:44:02,503
on lower tier, has also been suspended.

2341
00:44:03,253 --> 00:44:04,051
what do you say there, Saba,

2342
00:44:04,051 --> 00:44:04,381
about,

2343
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:05,240
people

2344
00:44:05,660 --> 00:44:06,260
not realizing

2345
00:44:06,283 --> 00:44:06,433
there's

2346
00:44:06,433 --> 00:44:06,573
no

2347
00:44:06,573 --> 00:44:08,013
money and then

2348
00:44:08,233 --> 00:44:08,443
coun-

2349
00:44:08,443 --> 00:44:10,703
councils being voted in and
then discovering there's

2350
00:44:10,780 --> 00:44:11,260
no money,

2351
00:44:11,818 --> 00:44:11,957
This

2352
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:12,090
is

2353
00:44:13,048 --> 00:44:13,198
just

2354
00:44:13,293 --> 00:44:14,803
smaller version of the entire national

2355
00:44:15,213 --> 00:44:15,683
condition,

2356
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:15,990
isn't

2357
00:44:16,048 --> 00:44:16,098
it?

2358
00:44:16,139 --> 00:44:16,189
Mm. I

2359
00:44:17,243 --> 00:44:17,373
there's

2360
00:44:17,468 --> 00:44:18,188
no money, We

2361
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:18,680
all think there

2362
00:44:19,003 --> 00:44:19,093
we

2363
00:44:19,108 --> 00:44:19,148
We

2364
00:44:19,188 --> 00:44:21,008
all want there to be more
money, but there isn't any,

2365
00:44:21,183 --> 00:44:21,573
and we keep

2366
00:44:21,668 --> 00:44:21,938
voting for

2367
00:44:21,968 --> 00:44:22,968
people who say, "Don't worry, we'll sort

2368
00:44:23,048 --> 00:44:23,548
out more money."

2369
00:44:23,643 --> 00:44:26,003
I think you've summarized rotten
boroughs up really well there.

2370
00:44:26,003 --> 00:44:28,233
So I think we just, yeah,
cancel the next edition and just

2371
00:44:28,233 --> 00:44:29,033
put that quote on.

2372
00:44:29,033 --> 00:44:29,183
Good.

2373
00:44:29,183 --> 00:44:30,393
But yes, effectively.

2374
00:44:30,683 --> 00:44:30,763
but

2375
00:44:30,763 --> 00:44:31,573
that's interesting because

2376
00:44:31,573 --> 00:44:32,853
Worcestershire is where I'm from,

2377
00:44:32,853 --> 00:44:33,673
and it's not a

2378
00:44:33,873 --> 00:44:34,873
it's not a place that's doing

2379
00:44:34,973 --> 00:44:36,303
badly, right?

2380
00:44:36,303 --> 00:44:36,663
It went

2381
00:44:36,663 --> 00:44:37,183
Labour in the

2382
00:44:37,183 --> 00:44:38,343
2024 general election,

2383
00:44:38,370 --> 00:44:38,670
and we, haven't

2384
00:44:38,780 --> 00:44:39,460
had a Tory

2385
00:44:39,743 --> 00:44:40,193
throughout that time.

2386
00:44:40,193 --> 00:44:41,083
That's the city center.

2387
00:44:41,483 --> 00:44:42,483
this is the regional.

2388
00:44:42,783 --> 00:44:42,983
But

2389
00:44:43,473 --> 00:44:46,833
there are much more deprived places
in England than Worcestershire.

2390
00:44:47,153 --> 00:44:48,273
So that to me, I

2391
00:44:48,273 --> 00:44:48,903
don't know if

2392
00:44:48,903 --> 00:44:49,233
you've looked

2393
00:44:49,233 --> 00:44:50,303
at the figures, but I would've thought

2394
00:44:50,303 --> 00:44:51,433
that's a social care

2395
00:44:51,723 --> 00:44:54,113
one of our great themes in
this is that adult social care

2396
00:44:54,183 --> 00:44:55,413
has blown, has just blown...

2397
00:44:55,813 --> 00:44:57,013
No matter if you've got a fairly

2398
00:44:57,013 --> 00:44:58,423
stable council base

2399
00:44:58,423 --> 00:44:58,553
of

2400
00:44:58,553 --> 00:45:01,623
taxpayers, you just can't
meet your obligations, right?

2401
00:45:01,623 --> 00:45:01,993
That's-

2402
00:45:02,093 --> 00:45:04,683
No, you can't, and it's not getting any

2403
00:45:04,683 --> 00:45:05,153
easier.

2404
00:45:05,153 --> 00:45:06,333
People are living longer.

2405
00:45:07,083 --> 00:45:09,393
and there's no way out for any council

2406
00:45:09,456 --> 00:45:09,806
and so I

2407
00:45:09,806 --> 00:45:10,136
suppose,

2408
00:45:10,136 --> 00:45:10,636
Saba, you've

2409
00:45:10,636 --> 00:45:15,156
been looking at the local elections
from a year ago and seeing where they've

2410
00:45:15,156 --> 00:45:17,064
ended up today Worcestershire's imploded.

2411
00:45:17,064 --> 00:45:17,654
Worcestershire's

2412
00:45:17,824 --> 00:45:18,244
imploded.

2413
00:45:18,303 --> 00:45:18,664
that's, right.

2414
00:45:18,664 --> 00:45:20,054
Alarming figure here, yeah.

2415
00:45:20,274 --> 00:45:21,324
But it was quite split, wasn't it?

2416
00:45:21,324 --> 00:45:24,384
Didn't it have some Reform and some
Green and some this and some that

2417
00:45:24,414 --> 00:45:26,254
and... was yeah ......there was

2418
00:45:26,254 --> 00:45:27,624
no coherent message from the voters of

2419
00:45:27,624 --> 00:45:28,804
Worcestershire about what they wanted.

2420
00:45:28,804 --> 00:45:28,954
No,

2421
00:45:28,954 --> 00:45:35,094
And I think that's, just, going back
to S- Sir John C- Curtis' quote about

2422
00:45:35,094 --> 00:45:40,844
nobody's very popular, that this is that
fragmentation that, on one hand, isn't it

2423
00:45:40,844 --> 00:45:42,644
fantastic that we've got all this choice?

2424
00:45:42,694 --> 00:45:48,354
And so I can be represented and two doors
down, there's my, neighbor who's voting in

2425
00:45:48,354 --> 00:45:48,444
a

2426
00:45:48,674 --> 00:45:51,544
sort of different way-
also has representation.

2427
00:45:51,544 --> 00:45:51,754
But

2428
00:45:52,804 --> 00:45:53,804
in one sense you can say,

2429
00:45:53,844 --> 00:45:55,884
that's great, it's
democratic," but in another

2430
00:45:55,884 --> 00:45:58,224
it leads to, deadlock.

2431
00:45:58,543 --> 00:46:01,033
and some very interesting
characters getting elected.

2432
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:02,600
that'll keep Rotten Boroughs full.

2433
00:46:02,990 --> 00:46:03,040
I

2434
00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:03,310
I don't

2435
00:46:03,310 --> 00:46:04,180
think there's any danger

2436
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:04,240
of

2437
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:04,340
you

2438
00:46:04,340 --> 00:46:04,600
running

2439
00:46:04,610 --> 00:46:05,170
of stories.

2440
00:46:05,299 --> 00:46:06,149
I can safely

2441
00:46:06,149 --> 00:46:06,719
say that

2442
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:12,109
we are well-served- for color,
intrigue, corruption, and,

2443
00:46:12,429 --> 00:46:13,749
dodgy political characters.

2444
00:46:14,161 --> 00:46:18,551
You mentioned last time that the, Reform
campaign was launched in Sunderland.

2445
00:46:18,721 --> 00:46:22,071
Nigel Farage went himself and did
a 2,000-seat venue, and it was,

2446
00:46:22,291 --> 00:46:24,981
big razzmatazz 'cause he was very
optimistic about their chances there.

2447
00:46:25,031 --> 00:46:25,411
How did that

2448
00:46:25,411 --> 00:46:25,841
turn out?

2449
00:46:27,171 --> 00:46:29,111
it turned out well in terms of

2450
00:46:29,241 --> 00:46:30,521
they've got the council.

2451
00:46:31,001 --> 00:46:35,211
however, not long after they
did that, there were allegations

2452
00:46:35,571 --> 00:46:40,721
of, racism, sexism, and then the usual
stuff from several candidates, including

2453
00:46:40,721 --> 00:46:43,751
one who wanted to melt down Nigerian

2454
00:46:43,751 --> 00:46:45,751
people and fill potholes

2455
00:46:46,501 --> 00:46:46,911
with them.

2456
00:46:47,710 --> 00:46:47,960
Richard

2457
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:48,260
Tice

2458
00:46:48,260 --> 00:46:49,240
was asked about that comment, and

2459
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:52,945
essentially really l- low-balled it,
and slightly dismissed it, I think,

2460
00:46:52,970 --> 00:46:54,730
which was I I found that quite shocking.

2461
00:46:54,812 --> 00:46:57,592
And James Cleverly, who I think his
background is Ghanaian-British, was

2462
00:46:57,592 --> 00:47:00,942
like, "Come on." It was presented as
this kind of, he said Nigerians get out.

2463
00:47:00,942 --> 00:47:04,682
And it was like he, he explicitly made
a remark where he's "Nigerians are,

2464
00:47:04,682 --> 00:47:06,952
good for nothing apart from melting
down to fill potholes." Like- That's

2465
00:47:06,952 --> 00:47:09,152
right ... most obvious racism, clang-

2466
00:47:09,302 --> 00:47:12,282
A- and I think ever heard ... that,
in itself was astonishing, but what

2467
00:47:12,282 --> 00:47:16,332
was even more shocking was, as you
say, Richard Tice going on to talk

2468
00:47:16,332 --> 00:47:19,542
to Laura Kuenssberg about this,
and she said, what do you think?"

2469
00:47:19,542 --> 00:47:21,442
And he said, "No, we're
just here to celebrate the

2470
00:47:21,442 --> 00:47:22,092
success."

2471
00:47:22,546 --> 00:47:22,846
That is

2472
00:47:22,886 --> 00:47:23,626
racism with a

2473
00:47:23,686 --> 00:47:24,945
local twist, isn't it?

2474
00:47:25,583 --> 00:47:26,483
That is it for this episode

2475
00:47:26,483 --> 00:47:27,543
of Page 94.

2476
00:47:27,863 --> 00:47:28,623
you so much

2477
00:47:28,683 --> 00:47:29,593
to Helen,

2478
00:47:29,703 --> 00:47:31,593
Sabbot/Adam, Ian.

2479
00:47:32,343 --> 00:47:32,943
we'll be back

2480
00:47:33,003 --> 00:47:34,123
soon with our Paul

2481
00:47:34,333 --> 00:47:35,523
Award specials.

2482
00:47:35,673 --> 00:47:35,803
I'm

2483
00:47:35,803 --> 00:47:36,643
gonna be interviewing all the

2484
00:47:36,643 --> 00:47:39,193
shortlists for this
year's, Paul Foot Award.

2485
00:47:39,233 --> 00:47:39,893
It's A brilliant

2486
00:47:39,923 --> 00:47:40,863
raft of stories

2487
00:47:40,863 --> 00:47:42,503
that have been nominated, and we'll

2488
00:47:42,503 --> 00:47:43,873
be back, after

2489
00:47:43,873 --> 00:47:44,713
another fortnight

2490
00:47:44,713 --> 00:47:45,913
with a regular episode.

2491
00:47:46,262 --> 00:47:46,500
But

2492
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:47,590
before then, if you'd

2493
00:47:47,590 --> 00:47:47,750
like

2494
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:48,560
more Rotten

2495
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:49,270
Borough stories,

2496
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:49,650
you'd like

2497
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,520
more stories about what's going

2498
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:51,640
on

2499
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:52,590
at the national level, there

2500
00:47:52,750 --> 00:47:52,980
even

2501
00:47:52,980 --> 00:47:53,730
be more quizzes.

2502
00:47:53,730 --> 00:47:54,370
I don't know, Ian.

2503
00:47:54,370 --> 00:47:54,660
That's up

2504
00:47:54,660 --> 00:47:54,970
to you.

2505
00:47:55,380 --> 00:47:56,140
In the next issue

2506
00:47:56,210 --> 00:47:56,320
of

2507
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:57,560
Private Eye, they are

2508
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:58,410
available on

2509
00:47:58,990 --> 00:47:59,340
If you want

2510
00:47:59,340 --> 00:47:59,450
to

2511
00:47:59,450 --> 00:48:00,230
subscribe,

2512
00:48:00,290 --> 00:48:01,380
subscriptions are available

2513
00:48:01,410 --> 00:48:01,630
well.

2514
00:48:01,790 --> 00:48:02,240
Just go to

2515
00:48:02,290 --> 00:48:03,110
private-eye.co.uk.

2516
00:48:05,378 --> 00:48:05,648
until

2517
00:48:05,667 --> 00:48:09,037
then, thanks to you for listening, and to
Matt Hill of Rethink Audio for producing.

2518
00:48:09,177 --> 00:48:09,607
Bye for now.