Kay Durairaj 0:15
Well, hello, hello guys. You're listening to Beauty Bites with Dr. K. Secrets of a Plastic surgeon, and today's podcast is such a cool topic, all about stem cells, with one of the pioneers and one of the most incredible people in regenerative medicine. His name's Harry Adelson. He's the founder of Docera Clinics in Park City, Utah, and he's one of the early adopters of regenerative injection therapies for chronic musculoskeletal pain. He began training in prolo therapy in 1998 and he's focused his practice exclusively on regenerative injection therapies since opening Docera Clinics in 2002

Dr. Kay Durairaj 0:55
So he's performed actually more than 7000 stem cell procedures, including 2000 intervertebral disc injections, and he's the creator of the full body stem cell makeover. Harry is chief regenerative medicine officer at Humanae Health, and he is pioneering many of the things that we're doing in longevity medicine. Welcome to the podcast, Harry.

Harry Adelson 1:18
Oh, Dr. K, thank you so much for inviting me. This is such a pleasure.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 1:22
Yeah, we're crossing you over into the esthetic plastic surgery. We're also regenerative, but we're just learning the molecular biology aspect of things. So, what brought you into longevity and regenerative medicine?

Speaker 1 1:35
Well, I originally, you know, as, as you know, I'm not an MD, I'm a naturopath, and I got interested in naturopathy originally with Deepak Chopra and all the mind body medicine movement that was happening in the early 90s and I was completely horrified by the obesity crisis that was happening in the United States and I saw a direct correlation between the big food industry and the diabetes crisis and metabolic disorders and so I've decided to go the alternative route. I decided to go into naturopathic medicine, and I went to the National College of Naturopathic Medicine, and I was fanatical about rock climbing at the time, and I was training for my dream trip to France, the birthplace of modern sport climbing, and I was training in the gym, and I did this hard cross through move, and I felt this revolting pop, and I could hear it in my shoulder. Oh, that's not good. So, I went to a surgeon, and he said, "Oh, yeah, you've torn your labrum, you've torn the cartilage in your shoulder. I can put a scope in there and cut away that piece of cartilage. It's going to help you in the short term, but it's going to give you arthritis later in life. Alternately, I can do a steroid injection, which you'll, you'll have a great climbing trip this summer, but it's going to demineralize the bone and give you problems later, and I thought those are both terrible options, like that's it. So I started, you know, this is back in the 90s when research meant talking to people, and I started asking around, sort of the natural medicine community, and I found out about something called Prolotherapy, which is the predecessor to stem cell therapy. It's the injection of natural substances, mostly sugar water. Sugar is simultaneously nutritive and slightly irritating, so you inject into a damaged structure to trick your body into thinking that it's been injured, reinjured. So now you get a whole new opportunity to healing response without actually having endured a new tissue insult, and I fell in love with it, and my mentor was a guy named Rick Marinelli, and back then the MDs who were doing prolotherapy were very squarely in the alternative realm, so they sort of welcomed us with open arms, and I did that for years, and then platelet-rich plasma came along, and that was a little sexier, you know. It involved buying these expensive kits to concentrate your blood platelets, and blood plates - blood platelets are what are responsible for clotting after injury, but they also signal to heat the body to heal itself, so I did that for six years. That's all I did, 100% platelet rich plasma from 2004 to 2010 And then in 2010 a patient of mine, who I'd helped over the years, we she'd had a bad traumatic knee injury many years before. She didn't want surgery. We did prolotherapy for a number of years we did PRP, and we helped her to a point, but we never got her quite all the way there. She came into my office, and she put a stack of papers down on my desk, all animal studies, back then, because that's all we had back in 2000 This was actually 2009 and she said, Harry, I want you to put bone marrow stem cells in my knee,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 4:37
and

Speaker 1 4:38
I said, Laura, you know I'm a naturopathic doctor, do you know how much criticism I wanted to get if I start doing bone marrow aspirations? And she said, Harry, I'm a materials engineer for NASA, and I'm a woman, so if you want to complain to me about people telling me that you're out of your league, I'm afraid you're complaining to the wrong person, and I couldn't argue with that, and so I found an orthopedic surgeon who was willing to teach. Me, how to do a bone marrow aspiration. They're not that hard, and it worked so well. I knew this was the future of regenerative medicine. So, for since 2010 I just completely wholesale switched over from 2012 to 2022 My practice was 100% doing bone marrow with fat stem cells for the treatment of for the treatment of musculoskeletal pain, and then in 2022 is when I switched over to umbilical cord cells.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 5:29
Wow, that's incredible. So I think patients themselves have a lot of confusion, but what are the locations in the body where you can harvest stem cells from? Because

Speaker 1 5:38
well, if you're doing so, there's autologous and allogeneic, so the word autologous means donor and recipient are the same person, as you well know, and allogeneic means using donor tissue, and in this case we're talking about birth tissue, and remember that birth tissue means like we have the baby, and then you have the birth tissue, which is the umbilical cord, the placenta, that sort of thing, they're completely, completely separate. When we're talking about autologous, the tissues from people's own bodies that we use primarily are bone marrow, which is like the workhorse. It's been around forever. We've known that stem cells are in the bone marrow, primarily they're hematopoietic stem cells, which are the cells that become blood cells, but there are mesenchymal stem cells in bone marrow. There's also a lot of other goodies in bone marrow. There's collagen and hyaluronic acid and stuff that's great for tissue healing, but adipocytes, the fat cells are surround the blood vessels that surround the adipocytes are loaded with these these mesenchymal stem cells, they're called pericytes when they're in situ, when they're in, when they're in location, but when you take them out and they separate from the blood vessel, they become mesenchymal stem cells. The fat is very rich in mesenchymal stem cells, and I did it that way for years, but then I had a patient, a Hollywood movie star, who came to me, who I'd had a great outcome, we'd injected his lumbar intervertebral disc. He had bad back pain. He's a young guy, and he was hobbled with this back pain, and he had this big movie coming up where he was going to do all his own stunts. And we did a big treatment with his bone marrow and fat, and he had a great outcome. And he's filmed this, he did all these crazy, amazing stunts, and when he was about halfway into the film, he called me. He said, 'Harry, I've tweaked my back, I need another treatment, but I can't afford the downtime associated with the bone marrow and the fat aspiration. Would you consider doing it with umbilical cord?

Dr. Kay Durairaj 7:38
And

Speaker 1 7:38
I thought, 'Whew. I said, you know, I'd never done it before. I'd never.. I knew some people were doing it. I knew people were going internationally. I said, look, I won't promise you that I'll do it, but I'll promise you that I'll look into it. And I did a deep dive into the scientific literature and sort of the regulatory status in the United States, and I realized we could do it here, like there is a pathway in the United States to do it. It's called a 361 human cellular tissue pathway. When you need an eyeball, when you need some skin, when you need a heart, when you need something, you go to the tissue bank, and tissue banks are human tissue products. Well, you can put umbilical cord birth tissues into these into these birth tissue banks, and through this 361 pathway, which is the human cellular tissue product pathway, we can use these products legally here in the United States. So, I said, "Okay, look, we'll do it, and we had a great outcome, and I just kind of.. I didn't look back. I mean, I still occasionally do will do bone marrow and fat, but for the most part, we entirely switched over in 2022 to using umbilical cord tissue. I found Vidi Labs, which is sort of the premier tissue bank in the United States, offering these therapies, and I've been very happy with the change.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 9:03
Nice, I like that. I think there is a lot of confusion about that. Stem cells can come from there's a company doing hair follicle harvesting, fat transfer, you know, definitely fat is a rich source, bone marrow, of course. And then some people, I guess, are using just platelets, even to do some kind of stem cell growth factors, so, so, do you feel one is preferred to others for some reason, or is it dependent on the tissue that you're treating that you think, like, if I'm doing hair injections, maybe I'm going to get a hair mesenchymal stem cells,

Speaker 1 9:37
you know, my, my world is low back pain, neck pain, joint pain. I work with Amy Killen, who you might know. Amy works out at my clinic, and she does all she calls it the skin and sex, so she does all the cosmetic, the skin of the face, the hair follicles, the sexual optimization. So we work hand in hand, we work together, but. I've, you know, overall, look, I believe that what you, Dr. K, think is going to work best for you is what's going to work best. My preference these days is using the birth tissue products, because it's easier to use, it's easier to go through. I don't have to do a big tissue harvest, especially when we're doing the full body stem cell makeover, and we do a huge volume of bone marrow and fat. It beats people up, and it takes a long time to recover. It's a lot easier to use the birth tissue products, but there's some people who, you know, even though Vidi Labs will only accept birth tissues from non-COVID vaccinated mothers, they're so paranoid about the COVID vaccine, they only want it from their own body, and who's who am I to say, you know, if, if you want it done with bone marrow, and fat, we'll do it with bone marrow and fat. But overall, I prefer using the birth tissue products.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 10:48
Interesting. Why is it that those COVID mother, COVID-vaccinated mothers have issues or problems, or are there inflammatory mediators related?

Speaker 1 10:56
I think it's just such a hot topic, and I think there's a population of people who would absolutely refuse to consider using a birth tissue product from a COVID vaccinated mother. I don't think, honestly, I mean, I don't think, honestly, the COVID vaccine would cross the, you know, the umbilical cord. It's harder for substances to get across the umbilical cord than it is the blood-brain barrier, but you know, having said that, that an industry standard with all the reputable laboratories is, you, you'll only use.. well, let me just.. I'll just tell you, so when a woman gives birth in the hospital, she's given three choices, what to do with the birth tissue, and remember, there's the baby, and then there's the birth tissue, and the birth tissue is the umbilical cord, the placenta, and the amniotic membrane, she's given three choices: what to do with the birth tissue. She can keep it, she can have it medically disposed of, or she can donate it. If she donates it, she gives the hospital the right to give the laboratory to, they take possession of it, and they get the possession of the tissue, they also get possession of a redacted form of her health records,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 12:07
so

Speaker 1 12:07
name is crossed out, social security numbers crossed out, all identifying stuff is crossed out, but you know the laboratory takes the tissue and then takes these redacted health records, they process it that day, and these are mothers who are non-coven vaccinated and cesarean section birth, because clearly when the baby goes through the, when the baby and the birth tissue goes through the vagina, that's good for the baby's microbiome, but it's bad for the, you know, you can't use that tissue anymore, it's been contaminated, but a surgical cesarean section is still sterile, so the laboratory takes possession. They process it that day, it's frozen that day, and then it's never thawed again until it's in somebody like my hands. I'm about to inject it into a patient, then it's thawed, so it's only freeze thawed one cycle. And if anybody ever asks, well, the cells don't survive the freeze-thaw cycle. Just remind them 100% of embryos in vitro fertilization are frozen, and you get a baby out of that deal. So, explain that to me. Not talking about embryos, but you know

Dr. Kay Durairaj 13:14
that's very true. I think we have to think big picture. So, you like the slab, and you've been using it for what type of medical conditions, besides intervertebral and disc injections? What other things are stem cell injections useful for?

Speaker 1 13:29
Well, again, I mostly do low back pain, neck pain, joint pain. The idea being that that most musculoskeletal pain is not because of what you see on the MRI, you know that American College of Physicians has come out and said for someone who has nonspecific low back pain, don't order an MRI, because it's just going to send you down these expensive and dangerous rabbit holes. You, what's very confusing is frequently what the MRI shows has nothing to do with what's going on with the it doesn't even predict whether or not they have pain to begin with, so what we think in regenerative medicine is most chronic pain syndromes are caused from changes in the micro anatomy, changes in the in the in the in the health of the microscopic tissue. People who have injury, they, they, they're your miracle fabric, that is your connective tissue, loses its miracle properties. It stretches too much in some directions and not enough in others, and the nerves that pass through that tissue get caught up and inspire pain signals. Additionally, you get these irregularly formed blood vessels. So now the problem is every time you grow a new blood vessel, you're also growing a new sensory nerve along next to it, so now you have a hyper concentration of sensory nerves, where you've lost the ability to bring oxygen to the area and metabolic waste away, so it's a type of hypoxic pain, it's a type of oxygen deprivation. Pain, these are that's why these, a lot of these people have this kind of pain, they go get a massage, they feel great for a day or two, and then the pain comes right back, and that's just because the massage is like moving the blood around, getting some oxygen to the area, so that's sort of the musculoskeletal pain. Additionally, you know, there's kind of four main areas that stem cells, especially when you're talking about, like, a systemic IV application, there's, you know, sort of this inflamaging, you know, this when people have, you know, just kind of widespread inflammation, and one of the things that stem cells do that we, that we, that has been shown is they, they, they have this strong anti-inflammatory effect, and they sort of shift the body from a breakdown state to a repair state. They're very helpful in these sort of autoimmune and immune regulation syndromes, and that's because stem cells are immunomodulatory.. I'm sorry, immunomodulators. They don't suppress the immune system, but they re-educate the immune system to stop attacking itself. They can be very helpful in sort of post viral and complex chronic syndromes, and a lot, like, you know, post post covid, you know, or long covid, and a lot of that is because this phenomena of cytokine echo, and that's where this inflammation from the from the from the original sort of viral insult stays, because it just, it sort of gets hardwired in your, in your cells, and then lastly, a neurometabolic optimization, the, you know, we're, we've all talked about this type three diabetes, where we're metabolic syndrome affects the brain well, especially when we're talking about exosomes, which are the extracellular vesicles. They're the actual signaling proteins in the stem cells. Those are able to freely cross the blood-brain barrier. Here, what we do is we combine that with a spinal palatine injection, which gets it right next to the third tract, the trigeminal nerve, the fifth cranial nerve, but yeah, I mean, this, you, there's, there's a lot of things you can address with stem cells. I'm happy to say,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 17:14
well, one of the things he mentioned earlier, when we were chatting, was that people have this misconception that stem cells, you've got to leave the USA. You've got to go to foreign territory to get stem cell injections, that it's illegal in the US. So, you mentioned about the tissue banking and how it's illegal, legally used here. Do you have any other thoughts about going overseas to get stem cell injections?

Speaker 1 17:37
Well, the big thing that they can do internationally that we cannot do here is culture, expand the stem cells, grow the stem cells in a laboratory, which here in the US we can use them, but they have to be what's called naive, it has to be direct from the umbilical cord, not, you know, not more than minimally manipulated, as the is the terminology, so we can achieve these same doses, it's just a bit more expensive, because all culture expanding really achieves is it makes it less expensive when we use the naive tissue. There's actually, in my opinion, great advantage to that, because it's straight from the source. It hasn't been poked with a stick by a scientist in a laboratory, you know. It's, it's, it's, it's the natural stuff. It just costs a bit more because we have to use it. And then, of course, going abroad, like the issue with going to Mexico is now you're in Mexico, and if something goes wrong, it can go really wrong, and you're sort of on your own, you know. We've, I've sort of shared with you some of this information that's just recently come out about this one clinic in Mexico, a guy that I've known about for some time, who's been having bad outcomes, and it's finally come to light. And this guy was very well known, he was treating a lot of celebrities, he was treating a lot of health influencers, and having really, really horrible outcomes. I mean, he had about 20 people who almost died, a couple of people who are on kidney dialysis, a couple of people who had to have their spine fused, very very bad outcomes, and this is something that does, you don't hear about in the US. It doesn't happen in the US.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 19:13
Yeah, there's a lot of fire beware, I think, because if you're going to go abroad, there's so many really specific questions you need to ask, and I almost think you need to see the laboratory setting, like me being a physician, I want to go and toured the lab and understand, like, how the policy procedures and protocols look, but that's not really possible for most consumers. So, is there other questions you should be vetting when you go to a stem cell provider?

Speaker 1 19:42
You know, I strongly like, again, you know, I'm biased, but we can do, we could do this stuff here in the US, like, you don't have to go abroad first, like straight out of the gate, but

Dr. Kay Durairaj 19:52
even in the US, even in California, there's people doing stuff, and I office, and if I'm a poor consumer in a. Sounds fancy, I'm just gonna, not gonna

Speaker 1 20:03
reality is it's very hard. It does require your own form of vetting, and unfortunately, this is, you know, it is for better or worse, it is unregulated, and for better or worse, it, you know, it is a free country, and at the same time, it's hard for people to to to make this decision, but you know there's some basic things you can look at. Look at the person's experience. How long have they been doing it? Find out which laboratory they use, and is that not only is the laboratory FDA registered, but are the individual products FDA registered? Because any laboratory can become FDA registered just by mailing in a letter saying, hey, we're opening our laboratory, and that's it. But when you register the actual products, the 361 registration of the individual products that triggers an FDA inspection, so you're inviting the FDA to come in and inspect your lab, and only the most reputable labs, like Vidi Labs, does that voluntarily undergoes an inspection. And beyond that, you know, oh, the other thing is, you want to make sure that if you're doing musculoskeletal, especially if you're having your spine injected, especially you want to make sure that the physician is using some type of image guidance, either x ray or ultrasound, preferably both. We use both. There's some situations where x ray is superior. There's other situations where ultrasound is superior, like we use x ray for epidurals and for intervertebral discs, but we use ultrasound for rotator cuffs and achilles tendons, for instance, so having both is, you know, if the doctor does both, and then the other thing that I think is sort of a useful metric is, does the physician offer IV sedation? Will that physician bring an anesthesiologist into the office to put you to sleep if you want it, because that shows a degree of seriousness, you know, for especially for spine injections, they hurt. We sedate everybody, we put everybody to sleep, especially for full body stem cell makeover.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 22:09
So, Harry, you're the creator of the full body stem cell makeover. I would love to know what is that.

Speaker 1 22:16
Sure, sure. So, Dr. K, what's interesting is back when I started doing bone marrow stem cells in 2010 There were very few people in the US doing it. I think I was about the 10th person in the US to do it, so no one had heard of it. Like, I would go to South America every other month, not because I was, you know, worried about US authorities, but because it was hot in Brazil, and no one had heard of it in the US, so I needed the work, and I wanted to build up my experience. The only people who had heard of stem cells in my part of the world were Wyoming cowboys, and the reason for that is because I'm here in Park City, I'm right next to Evanston, Wyoming, and the reason for that is these guys own these very expensive workhorses, and the first doctors in the United States to do stem cells were veterinarians, and these horses would get too old to work, and he would take them to this veterinarian, and the veterinarian would do bone marrow stem cells, mostly into their arthritic hooves, and they'd get two or three more years of work out of them, and these are very pragmatic people, and they would say, "Well, shoot, can you do my shoulders and my hips and my low back and my neck? And the guy would say, "Well, no, I can't, because I'm a veterinarian. But there's a guy in Park City now, go to him. So, in those early days, 2010 2011 2012 I get these busted up ranchers and wranglers and, you know, horse people who had arthritis through their whole bodies, and I was, you know, they'd say, "Well, can you do my back and my neck and my shoulders and my hips and my knees? I'd say, "Yeah, sure, you know, because I had been doing prolothera before, and I never build insurance, so it never occurred to me to say no. Well, then soon after, Dave Asprey became a patient, then Ben Greenfield became a patient, and these people interested in sort of longevity, and, and living, you know, being very physically active very late into life. So I came up with what I call a full body stem cell makeover. So I am, let me see if I can pull up,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 24:18
you have a little video you're going to share with us. So although we're in an audio podcast, we're also on YouTube, so you could actually watch this video, and you're going to show some of the steps, and about how long does the,

Speaker 1 24:32
yeah, oh, it's just one minute.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 24:33
Okay,

Speaker 1 24:34
so here we go. So, if you can see this, so this is Ben Greenfield, so he's about to go to sleep, so our anesthesiologist puts him to sleep. We start out doing epidural injections, so I'm putting stem cells in the epidural space. Then I go down, I inject the entire length of the spine, from the base of the skull down to the tailbone, both sides. While I'm doing that, Amy Killen, who I told you about, comes in and she injects this. Out to get the hair follicles, we flip bend over, we do both shoulders, both knees, both ankles, both great toe. Amy Killen is doing his face in order to get the skin of his face. I come back to his elbows, wrists, thumb. Right now I'm doing a bit of laser in his knee, then she finishes off with the sexual optimization, injecting the penis, and then very last was that spinopalentine injection, which is the fifth cranial nerve, that's it. So that's that's full body stem cell makeover. It's for people from the Mick Jagger school of anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 25:40
Oh my god, wow. So that, what kind of recovery is that? That must release a ton of cytokines.

Speaker 1 25:45
Well, when I used to do, when I used to do it with bone marrow and fat, it was quite a significant recovery, because it beat people up, because it was a big tissue harvest. And when you concentrate the stem cells from the bone marrow, you're also concentrating the white blood cells. When you do it with the birth tissue, amazingly, it looks crazy, but then people wake up and they feel fine, like it's quite surprising. They actually frequently have less pain when they wake up.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 26:09
Interesting. Wow. And then, what would be the advantages of getting IV stem cells, or disadvantages compared to this local injections into the pain and inflammatory areas?

Speaker 1 26:20
Well, we always give people a little bit IV whenever we're doing our musculoskeletal. What you want to be careful of is if people sell you on the IV. When you do an IV, it's the cells follow the laws of hemodynamic and fluid dynamics, so they go to the lungs first. Most of the stem cells are too big to pass through the lungs, so they get caught up in the lungs, but then the growth factors go into general circulation, and they go to your internal organs, primarily the areas that have the most blood flow, which is great if that's what you're treating, but if you're treating like a low back pain or a knee pain or something like that, you really need to put the cells where we're targeting, so IVs are great for general type issues, but for musculoskeletal pain, you really want it directly where we're talking about now. The big exception, potentially, and this is a very new branch of stem cell medicine, is this new ad is was this advent of the muse cells, which you know a thing or two.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 27:22
Yeah, I'm really excited about those, because those do not get trapped in the pulmonary system. They're able to go more systemic, and they are kind of little honing beacons that can go to areas.

Speaker 1 27:34
Exactly, the muse cells are about one quarter the size of a standard mesenchymal stem cell. They're not as sticky as the as standard MSCs, so they don't get caught up in the lungs, so they're able to bypass that first that the pulmonary bypass, then there's a couple of things that really make them interesting, so they were discovered by Marie Dezawa Dezawa in 10 in Japan, and she, it was interesting, because she was adding some culture medium to a group of cells, and she accidentally put trypsin in there, and trypsin is a protease, it's an enzyme, it destroys destroys protein, so when she came back the next day, she thought all the cells were going to be dead, and they were, except for this one type of cell, which then she called the muse cells, the multilineage differentiating stress enduring cells. What's interesting about these cells is they are pluripotent, and whereas most stem cells are multipotent, meaning they can become fat and cartilage and bone. These new cells are pluripotent. They, they can become any tissue in the body. They were most mesenchymal stem cells, when you use them therapeutically, are primarily signalers. They, through, they work through the paracrine effect. They communicate with cells and kill invading microbes and and and signal for the tissue to heal itself. The mutant cells are actually, they phagocytize, they eat the old damaged cells and then turn into that type of cell, and then, and then they're able to survive in these sort of very low oxygen, these injured places in the body, so it's, it's a very interesting.. I mean, it's pretty new to the United States. The Muse Cell Innovations is just coming to the US now. I'm very happy to say that they've invited me onto their scientific advisory board, so I'm going to be working a bit closer with them and learning a lot more about them.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 29:39
That's so exciting! Yeah, I hope to interview Marie when I go to Japan this year. I'm doing this Anti-Aging World Congress, and I find that her work was so fascinating. A lot of serendipity went into the discovery of the muse stem cells, but they have the ability to.. I think they've done a few clinical trials and animal trials for. Sure, but they're also in process of human trials. Results seem to be very outstanding. So, what else is new on the longevity front, besides mute stem cells?

Speaker 1 30:11
Well, the two things that I've started doing is I think that the therapeutic plasma exchange is really gaining traction, and if you're doing an IV, it's really nice to do the therapeutic plasma exchange, where you're attached to a machine that draws the blood out of your body, separates your blood cells from your serum, puts the cells back in, but we discard the serum, that's to get rid of the microplastics, the forever chemicals, the stuff that you accumulate in your blood that you want to get rid of, so it's a nice treatment to do a series of immediately before you do an IV of stem cells. The other is this interstitial fractional laser that I've been using. You have a lot of knowledge of fractional lasers. This is a laser that I can put through a fiber optic filament, so I place a needle into, like, an intervertebral disc, for instance, and thread this fiber optic filament through the needle, and then it creates a thermal coagulation of the disc, so we're actually prepping the intervertebral disc for the injection of the stem cells, and I've been getting great outcomes with that, and I'm going to be presenting on that laser at the Stem Cell Conference in at the Wynn in Las Vegas this summer.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 31:26
Oh, good. When is that

Speaker 1 31:28
june 4 through sixth?

Dr. Kay Durairaj 31:30
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 31:31
The name of the meeting is the Stem Cell Conference, and it's great.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 31:35
I will have to check it out. I don't know about.. I have a hard time getting on board with the whole plasmapheresis and plasma exchange. I'm just, doesn't make sense to me. It's like getting dialysis, and you're running your entire blood volume through plastic tubing. If we're worried about microplastics, is that necessarily the right thing to do? Because here you, you're exposing your entire plasma and blood volume to more plastic tubing.

Speaker 1 32:01
I mean, I've been.. I've tested myself and a number of my patients for microplastics immediately before the first treatment in a series and after the last treatment in the series, and that in the reduction is undeniable. I mean, it's..

Dr. Kay Durairaj 32:14
yeah,

Speaker 1 32:15
yeah.. and then I feel better. I mean, it's.. this is the first time I'm one of these people who just genetically has very high cholesterol, and I refuse to take a statin, because when I take, I've tried statins, and every time I go up the stairs, I sprain my knee, so I don't like taking them. So this is the first time in my life I've ever had normal cholesterol. So that's appealing to me.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 32:35
That's interesting. Are there some supplements that you're recommending right now for all your clients that you think all of us should really focus in on. I know we need to do the basics of good diets, exercise.

Speaker 1 32:48
I think the real, the most basic one that's right in front of us is nitric oxide, and I like Nathan Bryant's product. You know, I think nitric oxide just helps everything that is microcirculation. It helps. I just be. I mean I'm a huge fan. I mean, that's if I was.. I had to pick one and that was gonna stand behind it. It'd be bad. I don't work with him. I mean, he's a friend

Dr. Kay Durairaj 33:10
of mine. So, your desert island product would be nitric oxide.

Speaker 1 33:14
Yes.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 33:14
Great. How about your other ones on your personal regimen? Everybody is curious. What do you want to.. what do you take every day, besides nitric oxide?

Speaker 1 33:22
Um, you know, I take, I take red rice, or what is red rice yeast? I mean, there's a number of different things. I like the Quicksilver Scientific membrane mend, which is mostly phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylcholine. I like Christopher Shades' product line, the Quicksilver Scientifics. It's all of his products are suspended in phosphatidylcholine, so you put it in your mouth and it absorbs through the mouth instead of instead of swallowing something and getting gastric absorption.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 33:53
That's interesting. Is there anything that you're doing for brain health? You mentioned these phenopalatine injections, but not everybody's ready to go that aggressive. What are you doing to prevent dementia and improve vascular perfusion microcirculation?

Speaker 1 34:12
Well, IV stem cells, I mean specifically IV exosomes, and what's nice is that humanoid health, where I'm the chief regenerative medicine officer. We've actually found a soft cannula that goes through the nose to do that spinopalentine application of extracellular vesicles, without, so it's without a needle, like the spinopalentine is with a needle. It looks horrible, it's actually painless. I've done it to myself, but at Humanaut, we're using a soft cannula that just goes into the nose and then squirts. It's an FDA-cleared device for trigeminal neuralgia and migraine headaches. So we just, instead of putting lidocaine to abort a migraine headache, we put exosomes in there to treat the fifth cranial nerve.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 35:00
That's so smart. What's the name of that device?

Speaker 1 35:02
TX 360

Dr. Kay Durairaj 35:04
Okay, I gotta check it out. I'm a head and neck surgeon, so you know I do that spin a palatine exposure for pituitary tumors and stuff.

Speaker 1 35:13
Yeah, very simple device. It's, you know, in a single use device, very inexpensive. It just.. it's a little syringe that you put like this, and then you advance the cannula, and then just squirt, and it hits exactly onto the spinopalentine ganglion.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 35:28
Any advice for consumers or providers out there who are wanting to get into the exosome field and bring them into their practices? There are just currently so many options, and there

Speaker 1 35:39
really are, and some of the ones that are the ones that are the most aggressive marketing are frequently the

Dr. Kay Durairaj 35:46
worst. Yeah,

Speaker 1 35:48
I mean, there's some real, real out there. I'm not gonna.. there's one in particular that's very, very aggressive at any time, and they're very, they're very easy to make threats, so I'm not gonna say their name, but they're, you've seen them, and they're out there, you know. I like video labs, I'm very happy with them. We're going to start doing this work with Mu Cell Innovation. They have a very nice X's online, they're only selling to certain states, the states that have stem cell laws, like Utah, the state that I'm in, and Florida, and, but you know, I just, just sort of do your homework, and look at, you know, I think that that three, that 361 registration of the individual products, I mean, that's the big sort of key question, you know, you want to know if they're American Academy of Tissue Bank certified, you want to know if they're good CGMP certified, you certainly want to know that their lab is FDA registered, but you want to know if their individual products are FDA registered, because that's really the acid test.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 36:50
Are there a couple other brands that you think are good out there, just off the top of your head, that you've vetted? I'm

Speaker 1 36:56
very happy with Vidi. I'm very happy with a new brand called Hyogen, that's a friend of mine, Chuck Meeker, who's here in Utah. Chuck Meeker is amazing, and you might, you might want to interview him at some point. He's here, he's a PhD cellular microbiologist who went to law school, so he's a PhD JD, and he is a JD in intellectual property, so now he's sort of at that intersection between all things stem cells and all things regulatory. He's very involved with he's going every month back to Washington to work with human health services, health and human nurse services, but he's he is a very good product also. It's Hyogen Labs, Hyogen Medical. I'm sorry,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 37:41
very cool. I think there are so many advances coming, and one of the things we talked about was kind of legal and ethical and evidence-based medicine. As we see more longevity, longevity clinics popping up, it's becoming disturbing that they are just kind of the wild west out there.

Speaker 1 38:01
Yeah, well, have a look at Human Not Health, that's who I work with, and we're trying to do it the right way. We've got a very solid scientific advisory board filled with Masters in Public Health, and we're trying to try to be completely ethical about

Dr. Kay Durairaj 38:16
it.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 38:16
Yeah, I think that's the way to go. I think that's how we once we lose consumer trust, and you know, people try things, and they don't really work. That's going to be the main problem. What do you see coming up in your future? I know you're lecturing at the stem cell conference.

Speaker 1 38:32
Mainly, that's it. As you, I'm trying to convert all my effort into human hot health. We've got two locations now. We've got sort of clear line of sight to 100 in the next four years, so my facility is likely going to become a human knot facility, but it's, it's very, it's very exciting that our CEO is Jim Donnelly, who was the founder of Restore Hyper Wellness, which I think is the largest health franchise in the United States, something like 262 locations in 42 states, or something. So he's basically taking that playbook to optimal wellness that has a strong regenerative medicine silo, which I'm in charge of.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 39:13
That's amazing. That's a big responsibility, but you're going to be a good leader for that.

Speaker 2 39:18
Thank you.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 39:19
Yeah, well, I know that you have some resources where patients can reach out to. Where can people find you on Instagram or your website?

Speaker 1 39:27
You know, I don't. Mostly, my website, docericlinics.com Doceri is the Latin verb to teach, and the word doctor means teacher. So, I just thought that was a catchy name. Nobody can pronounce it, so. but, but anyway, it's Doceri clinics.com right here in Park City, Utah. We're 25 minutes from the Salt Lake International Airport. It's a great place to recover from a full body step cell makeover, and, and, yeah, and that's, and Humana Health. Right now, our corporate location is in Austin. We have a location in Palm Beach Gardens. We're getting ready to open in Dallas, and. Keep, we'll keep an eye out for us, because we're going to be opening everywhere.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 40:03
I love it. And, well, longevity is a trend we should all be jumping on. And I first see stem cell injections in my future sometime, and I've got all my kids' umbilical cord blood.

Speaker 1 40:13
Oh, great.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 40:14
I'm banked, all four of them

Speaker 1 40:16
at a bank where you can access them,

Dr. Kay Durairaj 40:18
I think. So, it's like Cryocell International, whatever was available when I was in residency, and I hope was having babies.

Speaker 1 40:25
Yeah, hopefully they will release it to you, because that's the sort of thing - a lot, a lot of those labs will only release to the actual child if they have certain cancers, and that's the only situation. Other labs will release to first and second degree relatives.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 40:39
I hope so. Well, I'm banging on

Dr. Kay Durairaj 40:42
it.

Dr. Kay Durairaj 40:42
That's it for now, guys. Don't forget to check out my Instagram, it's Beauty by Dr. K. You can find me, they're doing amazing things with people's faces, including exosomes, hair, follicle stimulators, and other things like that. Someday muse stem cells when they come to California, and check out our website, it's still bww dot beauty by Dr k.com that's where you can find our new peptide based skincare launch, and my products have my own KD complex, it's a tripeptide that boosts collagen, elastin, GHK copper, which you guys have heard about, this is really next level for your skin, that's it for now, guys, I hope you learned so much from Harry about stem cells. I know I did. That's it for now. Stay young and beautiful.

Unknown Speaker 41:27
Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai