00:00:12:00 - 00:00:34:19
Charlie Hulme
Welcome back to another episode of The Smylie Show. We are back at home after a week in Philadelphia, the PGA Championship at Iran, and make one of the better Smylie Show retreats I can remember. And here's how good it was. How much fun we had is that if you notice that there is a material quality downgrade to Smylie's video today to smile these audio today.

00:00:34:19 - 00:00:47:01
Charlie Hulme
That is because after the recap we did on Sunday night, he left his laptop sitting right there on the chair. And we just none of us really spotted it. And by the time we heard here we go.

00:00:47:03 - 00:00:51:12
Smylie Kaufman
Yeah, yeah. No. Here we go. Nobody spotted it.

00:00:51:14 - 00:00:57:14
Charlie Hulme
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, wait a second. Wait a second. If.

00:00:57:16 - 00:01:15:04
Charlie Hulme
Can we get back? Can we unpack this behind this? Because Jax is not with us in the recording room, but he can back me up on this 1,000%, buddy. How do you. How do you leave your laptop? This is a this is a tough week for you. You lost. Can I ask you? And you lost a laptop. And I'm not sure how.

00:01:15:04 - 00:01:21:16
Charlie Hulme
Those are, like, both in the top five of things. I would not be leaving anywhere, ever. And you, you got two of them?

00:01:21:21 - 00:01:47:03
Smylie Kaufman
I'll tell you how it happened. It's because of Avi. If Avi doesn't sit down in my chair at the end of that episode, I never walk away from from my laptop. But I had y'all were still finishing the record, and I walked away and then never came back into the room, and just. It just was one of. I mean, how many times have I not finished an episode of The Smylie Show and somebody stand in my way?

00:01:47:03 - 00:01:48:21
Smylie Kaufman
That's so this is like a one.

00:01:49:00 - 00:01:50:03
Charlie Hulme
That's a 1 to 1 of.

00:01:50:03 - 00:01:51:21
Smylie Kaufman
One, one, one of ever, you know?

00:01:51:22 - 00:02:07:02
Charlie Hulme
Yeah. First time ever I just thought I mean, it was literally it was on like the foot rest of the chair, which you said, I know, right next to the front door, right next to the front door. So I'm thinking he must have done this on purpose. That's how that's how just out there was.

00:02:07:03 - 00:02:08:19
Smylie Kaufman
So so you did spot it.

00:02:08:19 - 00:02:11:01
Charlie Hulme
I did, I certainly did.

00:02:11:03 - 00:02:12:12
Smylie Kaufman
He said nobody's spotted it.

00:02:12:13 - 00:02:22:18
Charlie Hulme
Well, okay. All right. It was sort of a semantics thing. If anything, I was trying to cover up for you who left your laptop, like within eye range, walking out the front door of this of this rental.

00:02:22:19 - 00:02:25:23
Smylie Kaufman
Did we? But we did we ever walk out the front door?

00:02:26:00 - 00:02:31:15
Charlie Hulme
Did you did you take. I went out the front door and went to the airport.

00:02:31:17 - 00:02:47:08
Charlie Hulme
Laptop. So I saw your laptop. So. Dang. Yeah, I mean look yeah I mean it would have been. Yeah. There you have it. That was a long winded way of saying Smylie's joining us on his phone in Nearpod tonight and and that's just that's and choking on water.

00:02:47:09 - 00:03:11:14
Smylie Kaufman
And try not to joke. And man we that PGA just it was just like the the like a wild week you know from like very like cold temperatures to then like the very end like super hot. And I don't think my body like quite ever recovered from the week. And they coming back home to like a full parenting day.

00:03:11:16 - 00:03:22:13
Smylie Kaufman
It was you know, you just young kids or they take it out here man. Shout out to my loving wife. I can tell you that much.

00:03:22:15 - 00:03:30:04
Charlie Hulme
Shout out to our loving wives for for holding it down while we were gone for a week in Philadelphia, playing, playing some golf, watching some golf. Definitely working hard.

00:03:30:04 - 00:03:35:01
Smylie Kaufman
But I never had like I never had, like truly a good cheesesteak last week.

00:03:35:03 - 00:03:39:14
Charlie Hulme
That's a well, would you call the one on Friday night a good cheesesteak?

00:03:39:16 - 00:03:43:07
Smylie Kaufman
Not not like a like it was a like a fine cheesesteak.

00:03:43:08 - 00:03:44:04
Charlie Hulme
Fine cheesesteak.

00:03:44:08 - 00:03:48:06
Smylie Kaufman
I would take Jersey Mike's over it and he did the week.

00:03:48:08 - 00:03:52:15
Charlie Hulme
I agree. Hard agree. In fact just had Mike's the night Mike's way.

00:03:52:16 - 00:04:16:07
Smylie Kaufman
And if we're if we're just going to rank like where a Philly cheesesteak from Jersey Mike's is in the, you know, the scale of cheesesteaks, it would probably be, you know, right. Right at a good hard seven, seven and a half, you would think. Yeah, right. Knowing that there's knowing that to keep getting higher with amazing Philly cheesesteaks in Philly, you know you know what I mean?

00:04:16:09 - 00:04:26:10
Charlie Hulme
I'm with you. The Chipotle chicken cheesesteak which I believe is order number 42. That's that's a good cheesesteak. That's a good cheesesteak like it's. But do you.

00:04:26:10 - 00:04:37:01
Smylie Kaufman
Not even like count that as a cheesesteak though. Because it's I wouldn't I think we're talking nuts and bolts of what a Philly cheesesteak is. Its stake not chicken.

00:04:37:03 - 00:04:56:19
Charlie Hulme
I just think I guess in general, their method of preparation does it for me. You know, like just the the cheese melt the meat like it's all despite being a national chain. It's a good cheesesteak. I'm with you. I'm right there in that 77.5 range for the cheesesteak, knowing that there are better ones out there, but they're definitely worse ones out there.

00:04:56:20 - 00:05:06:17
Charlie Hulme
And, you know, with all due respect to our hosts on Friday night would have done a 42 from Jimmy from Jersey Mike's. I'm sorry. Oh yeah. No, that.

00:05:06:19 - 00:05:18:02
Smylie Kaufman
Was fine. Trust me. Yeah. It was more so I just we didn't have any Angelo's or anything like that. So we didn't have, you know, just there, you know, they're their best ones.

00:05:18:04 - 00:05:38:12
Charlie Hulme
Yeah, we did not. I mean, we were we were, to be fair, maybe the I don't know how we went from from you being the most free during PGA week because CBS broadcasts it to like the busiest person on earth. Because I was complaining about having two shows and you had four. You had four things to do throughout the day.

00:05:38:16 - 00:05:45:15
Charlie Hulme
So it was it was a it was a lot. We were doing a lot of work. So we. Do excuse we're pardon for not having a cheesesteak.

00:05:45:18 - 00:06:03:06
Smylie Kaufman
I don't think we've ever really like told our viewers kind of what an evening “Live from” it looks like. And so I kind of want to walk them through it because please, you know, everybody just kind of sees me pop up on TV and thinks it's, you know, you know, just right then and there, I just got off the range good, good workout right before.

00:06:03:07 - 00:06:06:10
Smylie Kaufman
And it's quite the opposite from hitter.

00:06:06:12 - 00:06:07:18
Charlie Hulme
Got to stretch all that good.

00:06:07:21 - 00:06:24:23
Smylie Kaufman
What seemed like a lot from hit starts at 720 for the most part. I'll be there an hour or so before to make sure I get wired up so that we can check in with the studio and make sure audio and especially videos like matched up. So there's no delay. So that when we have communication, it's not all jacked up.

00:06:24:23 - 00:06:48:17
Smylie Kaufman
And when I talk it's not delayed. And so we do that. And then for the most part we just kind of rehearse what we're going to do. And then after we rehearse, you just kind of, you know, just wait around and sit. And I'm kind of making swings, not hitting any balls by any means. And so when I do pull off a shot, genuinely, it's, it's not a, it's not a fake reaction of, of okay.

00:06:48:18 - 00:07:08:09
Smylie Kaufman
You know, like he's really going overboard here. You know, how hard could it possibly be hitting a five iron cut around a tree to four feet? I'm sure he hit a bunch before then. Guys, this is just think about like your first swing of the day and you're just thinking about, oh, I'm just kind of hoping I make pretty good contact here.

00:07:08:10 - 00:07:30:05
Smylie Kaufman
Just a little half, little wedge swing. And, you know, you start to kind of get a feel for it the more balls that you hit. And I could tell you in all the ones that I've had from hitting a driver on 18 at Sawgrass, cold Turkey, from hitting that five iron at Philly and then like the Sunday night one where, you know, I'm just sitting there feeling pretty good about the about the game.

00:07:30:05 - 00:07:48:03
Smylie Kaufman
And then I get over the ball and thinking, you know, my grip for whatever reason, was like so slick. And I was just so concerned that I was going to lose the face on the downswing, that I was just going to block it. Miles. Right. And so I'm set up for this big fade. It's all I was so concerned about that six iron I hit it trout on ten.

00:07:48:04 - 00:08:11:11
Smylie Kaufman
When you and I played I thought that shot was coming. And so I ended up just going for the full flip band, Beano. And I don't know if you saw Wacky Neiman's comment, but he said it was it wasn't a double cross, it was a triple cross. And I, I tend to agree that it was a triple cross, but then I would argue that it was a mud bath.

00:08:11:13 - 00:08:31:21
Charlie Hulme
Triple cross, mud ball entering the lexicon. I love it, I love it. I was looking while you were talking to fine, because somebody sent in a fantastic your question for the show for you specifically and and it was, it was, it was on this topic. It was and it didn't come down to it, of course, wins by three shots.

00:08:31:21 - 00:08:50:00
Charlie Hulme
But the question that he posed, and please, if you sent this in, please reach out. I'll make sure to credit you. Next show was coming down the stretch. Someone hits their drive over there on the right on 18 in a rana make. How much money would that player pay for your shot on Live From that you cut around the tree, you know.

00:08:50:02 - 00:09:04:00
Charlie Hulme
You know what I mean? Like, yeah, maybe you could take it back and apply. Like, what would Keegan Bradley or Justin Rose have paid coming down the stretch of the BMW in 2018 to avoid a playoff by hitting it to birdie kicking range? I thought that was such a good question.

00:09:04:02 - 00:09:06:16
Smylie Kaufman

00:09:06:18 - 00:09:22:04
Smylie Kaufman
Well, I can think of many shots in my career that I would have paid a lot of money to, had a wide re creator hit and pull it off and pay them a good sum of money. So yeah, the limit does not exist. You know all mean girls quote.

00:09:22:10 - 00:09:46:00
Charlie Hulme
Yeah, I like it. I think, I think if the winner share was like three seven and you needed a birdie, you had to have a birdie. I think you go up to I think 500. Yeah. I was gonna say 500,000 is absolutely maybe a milli. Did you clear two seven and you take home the Wanamaker. So great question that in and also and I'd say that makes that all the more impressive.

00:09:46:01 - 00:10:04:18
Charlie Hulme
I mean your guy who as you said, I believe when we were walking past the practice facility couple days in and we saw Justin Thomas and he was complimenting your shot and he said, first cut off hit all year for you to go cold turkey on a run on me with the five iron and cut it to two feet.

00:10:04:20 - 00:10:06:02
Charlie Hulme
Even more impressive.

00:10:06:05 - 00:10:28:01
Smylie Kaufman
My thought is in this whole recreation world is that first off, if you hit, you can't hit every shot. Good. And so you're going to you're going to look like an idiot at some point doing this. And I'm trying to avoid not doing that more often than not. And if I if I keep making myself look like an idiot, I need to keep loading up my pockets with golf balls.

00:10:28:01 - 00:10:46:12
Smylie Kaufman
And I think that's important. You know, like like it's all grass. At 17, I had three balls in my pocket, knowing that I had to get one on to the green. And so knowing this, it's like, how can you be a Hall of Fame recreate? Or it's like, it's just like it's just like the MLB. Like you don't have to get on base every single time.

00:10:46:13 - 00:11:05:11
Smylie Kaufman
Like you don't have to hit any home runs. Now, it's helpful to have maybe one home run a year, and I've had maybe 1 or 2, which was great. I've gotten on base a couple times, drunk out a ton, and but the thing is, doesn't take much to be a Hall of Fame player in the MLB from a percentage standpoint.

00:11:05:12 - 00:11:15:10
Smylie Kaufman
If we're looking at this. So really just one of three is all we're trying to do. If we can just be successful. One of three, I think we're I think we're nailing it.

00:11:15:15 - 00:11:27:03
Charlie Hulme
I think even, you know, if you really want to apply to the modern game of the MLB, or so I'm told, you can be a high strikeout, high power guy and hit about 250 and be NBP. And we look at it.

00:11:27:05 - 00:11:38:02
Smylie Kaufman
What's what's calm myself. You know, the Kyle Schwarber of live golf recreations. Is that a fair comparison.

00:11:38:04 - 00:11:44:07
Charlie Hulme
That's a that's a I think I think Kyle Schwarber will be flattered by that. I think there's I mean flattery.

00:11:44:08 - 00:11:56:03
Smylie Kaufman
Which I saw in Miami. And he just kept striking out every time. And every time I see Kyle hit the ball seems to go out of the park. So if we're kind of comparing our each other's games here, you know.

00:11:56:05 - 00:11:56:17
Charlie Hulme
I like it.

00:11:56:18 - 00:12:00:11
Smylie Kaufman
It's a box of chocolates here. Can I get anything?

00:12:00:13 - 00:12:11:12
Charlie Hulme
You're like a moneyball asset, Smylie. You mix it a couple walks, you got a good. I got a discerning eye. That's the type of guy that we need for a “Live from” recreation. Yeah, I can't.

00:12:11:14 - 00:12:18:17
Smylie Kaufman
You can't. You know, you can't replace me in the aggregate. That's that's just the bottom line. You're.

00:12:18:19 - 00:12:21:18
Smylie Kaufman
What, a movie. Moneyball, man.

00:12:21:20 - 00:12:27:09
Charlie Hulme
What? What a movie. You're the Scott, you're Scott. Hadamard essentially is what we're saying. Yeah, yeah.

00:12:27:14 - 00:12:32:07
Smylie Kaufman
It's the first base.

00:12:32:09 - 00:12:48:17
Charlie Hulme
By the way. I mean, we could really delve into at some point, like the second podcast of our post, major recap week needs to be what has been for these first ten plus minutes, which is just us telling you about all the things that happened behind the scenes. You and Jackson diving deep on that Game of Thrones spin off.

00:12:48:19 - 00:12:53:00
Charlie Hulme
And there, there were there were a lot of threats. It was seven.

00:12:53:01 - 00:12:56:20
Smylie Kaufman
Seven kingdoms and we kind of got into it a little bit, but.

00:12:56:21 - 00:13:11:21
Charlie Hulme
Oh, I'm into it. I this was this was let me tell you what this was. I wanted to watch the show with you. And I did watch large parts of the show with you. But Amanda and I, you know, there are lots of things that brought us together in marriage. You know, lots of things we like about each other.

00:13:11:22 - 00:13:21:10
Charlie Hulme
We cannot see eye to eye on television shows. It is the smallest, tiniest bit of overlap. So then when you see one that comes along. Were you like that? You're not watching.

00:13:21:10 - 00:13:24:08
Smylie Kaufman
My wife in this world? Yeah.

00:13:24:10 - 00:13:40:20
Charlie Hulme
Like I when a show like that comes along and you say, oh, that's something my wife would watch you say, all right, let's save that. That's going to be the that's going to be the next thing I suggest. So I don't have to, like, sit through the summer. I turn pretty or something like that with no, no offense to the people out there watching the summer after pretty.

00:13:40:21 - 00:13:43:15
Charlie Hulme
Just not in my sort of wheelhouse, I'd say.

00:13:43:15 - 00:14:09:22
Smylie Kaufman
So it is nice to have a show that comes along that you both are excited for. Yeah, and it happens maybe once or twice a year. And those are the you know, that's when everybody's on point at bedtime. Like we're firing all sinners to try to to try to be sitting down before 8 p.m. if we're starting anything past 830, all of a sudden life gets pretty quick.

00:14:10:00 - 00:14:12:21
Charlie Hulme
We're in the midst of Daisy Jones in the six.

00:14:12:23 - 00:14:15:14
Smylie Kaufman
Like, now we're thinking about rewatching it, man.

00:14:15:16 - 00:14:32:01
Charlie Hulme
So good. It's I love it. I'm also a huge like, Stevie Nicks guy. Just love Stevie Nicks. So like it's that's that series. Incredible. But that is definitely one where you're like, are we going to try to watch Jake Johnson six and I got it. All right, I'll have the kids in bed by 730. By the time you get home the kitchen's cleaned up.

00:14:32:02 - 00:14:35:22
Charlie Hulme
We're going to go sit down and watch it. You know, that's not when you're dragging your feet around. So.

00:14:36:00 - 00:14:50:15
Smylie Kaufman
Yeah, you're talking. You're talking to a fellow over here. Somebody who thinks Ellen Langley and Stevie Nicks kind of have a little bit of the same personality and the way they dress. And it is Big girl, too. Yeah.

00:14:50:21 - 00:14:57:04
Charlie Hulme
Okay. I need to look at. I need to look, I, I need I was not I'm not familiar with Langley's game enough. Sounds like you.

00:14:57:04 - 00:14:58:03
Smylie Kaufman
Don't want to be in it.

00:14:58:08 - 00:15:07:16
Charlie Hulme
Come on, I love I love to be in. I feel like I've signed me up right now. I will say, I will say there are threats of watching 300 all week long that never material.

00:15:07:17 - 00:15:10:07
Smylie Kaufman
Oh, I finished it. I finished it on the plane. Hey.

00:15:10:13 - 00:15:11:13
Charlie Hulme
Good for you, man.

00:15:11:14 - 00:15:33:11
Smylie Kaufman
Great. It's it's it's honestly, it's honestly not even that great. And I talk to you about so much all week about us watching it in the theater room. Watching 300 is like, guys, can you imagine watching 300 and, like, in this theater room? And then we were going to watch Fury in the theater room. That had never come to fruition, but Fury would have been better than 300.

00:15:33:12 - 00:15:56:05
Smylie Kaufman
300 is good. It's. But give me like given you know, give me like it's it just keeps on giving me flashbacks. Like watching Gladiator and Gladiator so much better than it that I, you know, it's literally the same scene for an hour and a half of them. Just like fighting a new gang of the Persian army. It's like, all right, we got it.

00:15:56:07 - 00:16:15:10
Charlie Hulme
Yeah, that was that was the year of like, I mean, before before the year of like Chinese peptides and everything where it was like, what is Gerard Butler's ab routine? You know, like let's do 15,000 Men South articles on that. We can't believe that's a physicality, a physically possible thing. You know what a ripped on that theater blade.

00:16:15:12 - 00:16:19:20
Charlie Hulme
Blade would have crushed theater.

00:16:20:00 - 00:16:25:22
Smylie Kaufman
Yeah. See I, I don't even I've never seen blade. Who's in it. Who stars in blade.

00:16:25:23 - 00:16:29:06
Charlie Hulme
Wesley Snipes Wesley Snipes is. He is blade.

00:16:29:12 - 00:16:30:15
Smylie Kaufman
And they.

00:16:30:15 - 00:16:30:18
Charlie Hulme
Told.

00:16:30:18 - 00:16:34:00
Smylie Kaufman
Me it was cage. I was in.

00:16:34:02 - 00:16:49:15
Charlie Hulme
The the the villain. I heard the actor's name has, like, I think the best villain name of all film. Deacon Frost. I want Deacon Frost to be my alias. That is such a good name. I might go by Deacon Frost. Yeah.

00:16:49:16 - 00:16:51:00
Smylie Kaufman
Well, doctor Deke.

00:16:51:03 - 00:16:57:01
Charlie Hulme
Doctor Deke, I should have gone. I should have gone. Deacon Frost and the guys that were heckling Rory at make. That was.

00:16:57:03 - 00:16:58:14
Smylie Kaufman
The Frost man. The Frost.

00:16:58:14 - 00:17:15:20
Charlie Hulme
Man, the Frost man, the Frost man. We we we all met. We had a lot of good bits come out of that, let me tell you, Smylie. Summer of cotton popping off. Never in my wildest dreams could I expected Summer of cotton to take like it is taken a lot, lot of DMs, a lot of people trying to get in the mix, I love it.

00:17:15:21 - 00:17:25:23
Charlie Hulme
We are there, more people out there. We're hitting a tipping point. We're all rejecting big polyester, big microplastics all at the same time. I'm just glad to be a part of it.

00:17:26:00 - 00:17:35:05
Smylie Kaufman
You just is. Are you creating new Instagram accounts of Deacon Frost and DMing yourself of of this whole cotton trend?

00:17:35:07 - 00:17:39:08
Charlie Hulme
I'm just saying, a lot of a lot of people are trying to make the move right now.

00:17:39:10 - 00:18:04:13
Smylie Kaufman
Yeah, I dude, it just goes back because I used to wear, you know, 100% cotton like you're talking about and would wear it in Mississippi in July for junior golf tournaments. And so I always had this like nervous tic. When you call it a nervous sick. But. So I would always pull my shoulder up. It was mainly just to get the cotton off of my, you know, just sweaty body that I'm trying to unstick.

00:18:04:15 - 00:18:13:10
Charlie Hulme
Yes. Well, I mean, I mean, by the way, I mean, you are you're a Ralph Lauren guy. You had like, the original, like the original Pichi, like Picasso. A form of cotton, right? Like.

00:18:13:13 - 00:18:34:08
Smylie Kaufman
I mean, I, I have, yeah, but, like, new cotton is way better than old cotton, is all I'm saying. If you're going. Yeah, it just depends on what new 100% cotton. Like, I'm fine with that. But yeah, if the for the bit to work like I want, I want like a little bit of, like I want to be able to see almost the hair of this cloth is when I'm kind of.

00:18:34:10 - 00:18:35:06
Smylie Kaufman
Yeah.

00:18:35:08 - 00:18:53:01
Charlie Hulme
I remember those, I remember those polos because we all if you played, you know, any form of golf, you know, as a junior in like the late 1990s, you know, early to mid 2000 that it was just those big boxy cotton shirts were oversize, rigid, stiff. And so but it's almost it's weird coming back to it now. Like we went away from it all.

00:18:53:01 - 00:19:07:03
Charlie Hulme
That was like the era of when you were playing travel baseball. And underarm was first down that everyone went to synthetics, and then all of a sudden you're like, you come back in 2026. He's like, wow, this cotton's very comfortable. I yeah, take a look. Take a look.

00:19:07:08 - 00:19:38:22
Smylie Kaufman
I got a changing. I have a couple of super old golf shirts that have just like, you know, either they were my favorite shirt or favorite logo or favorite color that I just haven't been able to give away quite yet. I know you probably have, like, 1 or 2 of those that are still in the closet. You have more than ten years, and that's the type of shirt we're kind of talking about that if those are the shirts I need to see on your body at, you know, the Hope Valley Wednesday mid-morning scramble when it's 95 degrees but nothing but swamp.

00:19:38:23 - 00:19:40:08
Smylie Kaufman
You know what going on?

00:19:40:10 - 00:19:59:16
Charlie Hulme
I got the full team dialed in on cotton this year. We got a 96% Pima cotton blend out of Peru. A little 4% spandex in there for some stretch. We're dialed. Dude, everyone's going back. God, I know, I know, but like some of these ones, some of these ones, if you get above 90, that's good enough for me.

00:19:59:17 - 00:20:07:07
Charlie Hulme
All right. Put a little stretch in there. I understand that, you know, but it's it's it is what it is. I mean, it was I guess.

00:20:07:09 - 00:20:08:21
Smylie Kaufman
It's kind of organic.

00:20:08:23 - 00:20:18:21
Charlie Hulme
It's organic enough. The headline here is that we're, we're we're charged up rolling into the summer with lots of bits for two majors, and we have two majors left and Smylie.

00:20:18:23 - 00:20:23:22
Smylie Kaufman
How did we get here, by the way? It's like it's wild to me.

00:20:24:00 - 00:20:24:19
Charlie Hulme
Yeah.

00:20:24:21 - 00:20:52:20
Smylie Kaufman
And just a reminder Aaron Rye is one a major championship like that was not on the big board. Like I'm telling you, there wasn't a world where I had Aaron Rye winning a major this year. And I think Aaron Rodgers a fantastic player. Now, I could have seen I could have seen something at maybe the open, you know, just waves and just, you know, having to hit the ball straight, not having to rely on your putter quite as much.

00:20:52:21 - 00:21:14:02
Smylie Kaufman
Windy conditions. Give me Aaron Rye there PGA had to make I had in a small bubble of players going into around me. Never seen it before knowing nothing about it. Not even knowing it was a Donald Ross golf course. My perception of this place was that this was never going to be an error ry week. Now there's a week, went on.

00:21:14:02 - 00:21:38:11
Smylie Kaufman
I started to kind of see the golf course. Those things kind of change where, you know, I asked you that question was like, what do you think about Russell Henley track JJ spawn material? Hayden and we you know, we kind of debated those four guys of like who could be one of the the not so long accurate players content and win here little I know I showed through an error and Ryan that that whole question.

00:21:38:13 - 00:21:49:07
Charlie Hulme
Well here's here's the thing is if you had told me if 2024 Aaron Rye was on the board this week, I would have loved that version of Ryan he had.

00:21:49:07 - 00:21:52:09
Smylie Kaufman
He was well this year.

00:21:52:11 - 00:21:59:02
Charlie Hulme
So he actually so he had two injuries. Don't know if you saw the report he had like a lower back injury and a neck injury. And so.

00:21:59:04 - 00:22:07:14
Smylie Kaufman
Some of the range in Houston man. Like he somebody got into the tournament while I was sitting on the range and I watched Aaron Rye withdraw. I was like oh that's.

00:22:07:16 - 00:22:24:12
Charlie Hulme
Well and it's one of those things to like where a guy that gets hurt, you just never know the the full extent of the impact on the swing or the ability to score. And it's one of those things where it's like depending on the nature of your team, it's like it could be a long thing, or it could be something you get right and you start playing well, right right away.

00:22:24:12 - 00:22:47:16
Charlie Hulme
So that's why I say it's like an end to 25. You know, there was some some debate as to whether he deserved to be on the Ryder Cup team at Bethpage last year, but really, the form he'd shown towards the end of last year wasn't as good as end of 24. I mean, that whole summer I was it it was either Rocket or John Deere where he had like that driver off the deck into that narrow par five up the neck, and rocket was in contention there.

00:22:47:16 - 00:23:11:07
Charlie Hulme
It was rocket okay. And then of course wins the Wyndham I think I think we probably picked him. One of us suggested Aaron Ryan like over 75% of the tournaments that year for one and done. He was a machine and then has a little bit, you know, worst year last year and then has the injuries. But this isn't like if you told me back then that error rod was going to win a major the next two years, I would have said, oh yeah, like that doesn't it's a he's a long shot.

00:23:11:07 - 00:23:18:02
Charlie Hulme
That's not crazy. But for it to do it this week, you know, it's it's it's it's it definitely was a shocker this week.

00:23:18:04 - 00:23:20:21
Smylie Kaufman
When he won in Wentworth if I recall. Correct.

00:23:20:22 - 00:23:21:10
Charlie Hulme
Yep.

00:23:21:11 - 00:23:42:02
Smylie Kaufman
Yep. The DP event there and honestly took down some big names. I think Fitzpatrick was a name that he took down. And his wins like he's he's definitely not shied away from playing against some really top end talent. And we touched on this in the in the episode right when we finished the championship. But I was just amazed looking at his percentages of fairway accuracy.

00:23:42:02 - 00:24:07:03
Smylie Kaufman
Man, he's a 70% accuracy, dude off the tee. And his golf swing is. It's so interesting man. Like because he he takes it back fairly inside with his hands. Like he gets his hands back inside, but the face is shut like it is shut. And then he just gets vertical from there and he's deadly accurate. And he. But he's so meticulous, man.

00:24:07:04 - 00:24:13:16
Smylie Kaufman
Like, were you you and I talking about that like drill that he was doing on the range where he just sat there for, for ten.

00:24:13:16 - 00:24:14:11
Charlie Hulme
Minutes working.

00:24:14:11 - 00:24:16:20
Smylie Kaufman
On that drill, standing on the stick.

00:24:16:22 - 00:24:30:13
Charlie Hulme
I got correct real quick here because I want you to get back to what he's working on there. But that was actually last fall as a T3, the BMW PGA. He won the following week at the Abu Dhabi HSBC Championship, but he had two great weeks in a row. That was the last. That was at the end of 2025.

00:24:30:13 - 00:24:43:11
Charlie Hulme
But yes, that was an Oakmont where he had the two alignment sticks and one he was standing on between his feet. And you talked about this on the recap show, just tirelessly working on the most minute position over and over and over again.

00:24:43:13 - 00:25:14:15
Smylie Kaufman
I know, I know, well, we talked a lot about Aaron, right. So I actually want to kind of, you know, we didn't we touched on a lot of the guys. But who who do you feel most confident about that isn't Kam Young Berg or Matt Fitzpatrick and takeaway Scottie Scheffler, Mary McIlroy. Like, who do you feel you know prove something to you this past week at the PGA Championship that you think is going to maybe have a second half of the season, make a nice little run.

00:25:14:17 - 00:25:35:02
Charlie Hulme
It's interesting because I'm looking at the board here. I mean, the most surprising one in the top ten by far was Cam Smith. We talked about all week long. You know, a guy that and that's why I'm intrigued for upcoming majors with cam because it was it's everything we said all week long. It's like this guy never lost the touch around the greens.

00:25:35:02 - 00:25:48:19
Charlie Hulme
And putting. It was just that he, you know, hit it off the planet off the tee. And his iron game was so sold a lot of time. And now he literally is is I think this is one of the first weeks he's working with with Claude Harmon the third, and he's, you know, ties for seventh in a major championship.

00:25:48:19 - 00:26:10:10
Charlie Hulme
That is a huge jump in my evaluation of a player prior to this week. In my evaluation coming out of this week, I think that, you know, just in terms of just sheer talking points of observations, it's it's I don't know how I don't know how. It's like the same thing as Scottie. Ludwig Oberg Venice is tied for fourth.

00:26:10:10 - 00:26:29:18
Charlie Hulme
And the feeling around it is still like, was there something left on the table? You know, it's not fair to Ludvig. It's not fair to Scottie, but it's this expectation we have of these guys in our talent of how how can you hit it that good and have looks and not find a way to convert? Sometimes it's a putting, sometimes it's it's other things.

00:26:29:18 - 00:26:47:11
Charlie Hulme
But that to me is like it's again it's unfair to those players and it's a burden of expectation because they're so good. But it feels a little bit like, was this another chance for Ludvig Oberg to convert in a major that he's going to look back and regret? So, I mean, I think those two are the first ones that jump for me.

00:26:47:11 - 00:27:08:07
Charlie Hulme
I think, you know, Patrick Reed playing good again is that's a story line I'm tracking. So I think Patrick read right for me. Like needs to be in the President's Cup team this fall. If we need to get back to his formula. Yes he is. That was part of that that statement made. He is eligible. Now I don't know if it's a I mean I don't think he'll he'll accrue enough points unless he wins a major or something like that.

00:27:08:07 - 00:27:11:12
Charlie Hulme
But he's eligible as a captain's pick. Well.

00:27:11:16 - 00:27:18:01
Smylie Kaufman
He wouldn't be earning any Presidents Cup points because he's playing on the GT World Tour, so he would.

00:27:18:01 - 00:27:24:21
Charlie Hulme
Just think it'd be made. But it wouldn't. Wouldn't it be major he can get like if he won a major. Like when.

00:27:24:23 - 00:27:31:01
Smylie Kaufman
You know the. No, it's it's so the President's Cup is owned by the PGA tour.

00:27:31:05 - 00:27:32:01
Charlie Hulme
So I know.

00:27:32:01 - 00:27:37:06
Smylie Kaufman
That he's not he's not accruing any points anywhere other then points.

00:27:37:08 - 00:27:41:17
Charlie Hulme
So it's it's only do they do it off of Fedex Cup points or money.

00:27:41:19 - 00:27:49:07
Smylie Kaufman
It's it's it's a common you know what there is a combination of two majors do have that that is a factor.

00:27:49:08 - 00:27:54:06
Charlie Hulme
That's one. Yeah I mean look I'm not going to go look up the no. If you play I'm not gonna look up the formula.

00:27:54:08 - 00:28:16:10
Smylie Kaufman
Maybe let's say you win the Scottish Open. Right. Like that would be something that would be interesting there. Yeah. Just to kind of clean up, you know, a couple of things you said. So, you know, Cam Smith and really errata making this major championship looking at his driving stats clearly not great. That's something that's been a huge struggle for him going to work with Claude.

00:28:16:10 - 00:28:46:09
Smylie Kaufman
And this was like where I've kind of landed on this tournament is that, you know, bad shots probably weren't punished enough, especially tee balls. And now, did it give you a distinct advantage into the greens being, you know, playing from a trampled area or, you know, being a little bit more inaccurate? I don't think it gave you more of advantage, but it certainly didn't punish you enough than a player who just missed the fairway that like, hit the fairway for a tremendously long time.

00:28:46:09 - 00:29:11:05
Smylie Kaufman
Then it rolls off. It seems like those shots were coming in to the same as the green, as the same as the shots that were, you know, wired wildly inaccurate. Does that make sense? I'm just trying to let you know of of, you know, why we had this golf tournament be so tight and so close. Is that whether you just missed the fairway or missed the fairway by a much all of the shots were coming into the green relatively the same.

00:29:11:05 - 00:29:34:07
Smylie Kaufman
Unless your why was really, really bad, then you're just kind of doing your best to advance it up out of the green. And then from there, like even if you did hit the fairway, it was so hard to get close to the hole locations. And then you looked at the putting stats and you saw the number of three putts, and then you saw the amount of putts miss inside of ten feet compared to what the tour average is.

00:29:34:07 - 00:29:45:10
Smylie Kaufman
And you're like, oh well, no, no wonder nobody's separated themselves because, you know, it just was a really odd tournament. But like, in a good way.

00:29:45:12 - 00:30:04:17
Charlie Hulme
Yeah. I think the more I think about this, because it's not that my opinion changes every five minutes, but you start to think about like like when you're when you are critically thinking about the things you just listed there, which are to say that Cam Young could like, you know, he actually did this on 15. He came young, hit his drive like way left.

00:30:04:17 - 00:30:26:06
Charlie Hulme
And then from there I think played it into I don't know I didn't see his second shot but he played it into that. And this is on Sunday by the way played in that front right greenside bunker. Hit a filthy shot out of there to about three feet and made a par. Whereas we saw other guys. You were talking about how hard it was to hit that fairway on Sunday, because that ball would kick and roll down the left.

00:30:26:06 - 00:30:41:00
Charlie Hulme
And so, so so again, to your point, it's like you could have either yanked it over there and been in the same height rut as a guy that hit hit the fairway off the tee, but it bounded or the wind direction took it or whatever. And he's has the exact same lies Cam Smith and doing the same calculus.

00:30:41:00 - 00:30:47:10
Smylie Kaufman
And that's why this could be a first cut though. Like that's that's there. If there was a first cut to where you could control your.

00:30:47:12 - 00:30:48:21
Charlie Hulme
Close. Off that.

00:30:48:23 - 00:31:13:02
Smylie Kaufman
That well that that's like the huge difference to me of, of the setup of this place where I think it would have been at its best is that there were too many balls that that would have normally been in the first cut, given guys that are hitting more like quality drives off the tee, actually a chance to be able to get it closer to the hole versus being in the same type of predicament as the guy who's 30 yards offline.

00:31:13:03 - 00:31:27:18
Charlie Hulme
Well, and then look at the guy who wins the tournament. He goes about it by by having an insanely unique strategy. Like where on that hole he's like, yeah, I'm at three wood. I'm going to get myself 230 into the hole, and I'm just going to bet on my long iron play shot to make a point and had great shot.

00:31:27:18 - 00:31:44:18
Charlie Hulme
So. So then okay, so then then it's like we're we're working from there and we're trying to decide, you know, how you're how you're getting rewarded. And then the other element of variability is all these guys are smart enough and have played enough, you know, tour events and majors to go out and look at a green and know where the potential hole locations can be.

00:31:44:19 - 00:32:05:21
Charlie Hulme
Right. And and they and they'll throw down those disks and practice around and they'll hit chips to those areas. They'll putt to those areas. So but you truly can never know exactly where that hole location is going to be. And do enough practice that spot to know for sure how you need to play to that hole location. And then also you enter the other piece of variability where it's there are elements.

00:32:05:21 - 00:32:22:13
Charlie Hulme
It was windy on Thursday and Friday, all these sorts of things. So I guess so. So what I'm saying, what I'm saying there is effectively that there was a little bit of this crapshoot element where if I, if I got gusted, if I didn't really know exactly where I need to be under this hole to get a straight putt, I could hose myself.

00:32:22:13 - 00:32:40:17
Charlie Hulme
And it's a little it's not necessarily that my approach shot was worse, is that I just didn't have this extra element of knowledge to get the ball in a place where I had a chance to, you know, to make a putt or make an easy two putt. And then that's where, to your point on the strokes game putting, we were seeing that correlate so strongly with the leaderboard on the weekend.

00:32:40:17 - 00:33:05:02
Charlie Hulme
And so I mean, look I, I still think it was really entertaining. I still think it's an amazing course, but I, I'm not going to like shut myself down to entertaining lines of thought and explanation as to why it was a little bit different than like a straightforward, challenging major test. And maybe there was a variability that, you know, I understand why people disagreed with certain parts of the setup.

00:33:05:04 - 00:33:33:21
Smylie Kaufman
I also think that the wind direction was super challenging for the way the golf course lays out. And I'll give a couple of examples. So the eighth hole is an elevated tee box. Par three playing back in the breeze. So most of the actually I should say most of the part threes had hurting wind. And when you think about that it was you know some of the more challenging holes in the golf course like the eighth hole played at 3.5 I believe on Thursday, which was just silly.

00:33:33:21 - 00:33:59:06
Smylie Kaufman
And you know these these par threes that are playing back in the breeze. And then also I would say that some of the shorter par fours, those were holes that were playing more down breeze which I think became more challenging, especially when you talk about a whole number 11 with an elevated green. And that first balance was just so difficult to control, not wanting to go long in the green.

00:33:59:08 - 00:34:28:09
Smylie Kaufman
And then 17 I think is another good example, which is another par three when you have helping wind on that hole for such a long shot and and knowing you can't miss left, that's another one to where it's just I think the wind direction made it played a huge part in this. Like I think if you had maybe just a some slightly different angles to this golf course and maybe the opposite direction, I think the golf course plays easier.

00:34:28:09 - 00:34:39:14
Smylie Kaufman
So sometimes just a wind direction and the way the holes lay out can really make make the place play just a little trickier. And I think that's something that we really haven't talked a lot about.

00:34:39:16 - 00:34:48:22
Charlie Hulme
I can't believe I buried the lead this wrong because they lead this long. Because I have something I got to share with you. I don't know if you can really see this on your phone, but.

00:34:49:00 - 00:34:50:00
Smylie Kaufman
Maybe not.

00:34:50:02 - 00:35:07:14
Charlie Hulme
We'll see. As we're getting close to, you know, our Imperial Hat launch, our guy Drew Westfall reached out. And look what he's got up here. You see this? You see this on your phone?

00:35:07:16 - 00:35:23:12
Charlie Hulme
I cannot I can ride, guys. It is. I'm sure you can all see it on YouTube if you're on the podcast. He's got like, the like the prayer hands emoji. But it's it's two black rain gloves on the front and the circle. And he's got right guys on the back of the hat. He's bringing him to the US open.

00:35:23:12 - 00:35:36:15
Charlie Hulme
And I cannot wait to walk around. Shinnecock proudly displaying the SAT. This was this began. This is right guys. Is two years in the making on this show. And we invested early. We bought stock early and we made it okay.

00:35:36:16 - 00:35:50:00
Smylie Kaufman
Only design note. And I think this is great. Only design note here would be instead of the circle, I think you got to go with the triangle to to kind of show off the the iron covers. I think that's, that's the only recommendation.

00:35:50:04 - 00:35:53:19
Charlie Hulme
Wait, should oh my gosh, should the circle be an iron cover?

00:35:53:21 - 00:35:56:04
Smylie Kaufman
I think it should be.

00:35:56:06 - 00:36:03:16
Charlie Hulme
That's so good. I just look, this is creative mastermind here and we're live producing it. So this is but.

00:36:03:21 - 00:36:20:05
Smylie Kaufman
You gotta you gotta make the gloves a little smaller so that you give room for the iron cover. I love that, but you gotta make sure that you could see the iron cover. And so people don't think it's just some weird looking triangle, like, you just got to show that it's, you know, just show a little bit of the ferrule of the, the Hasil just.

00:36:20:07 - 00:36:26:06
Charlie Hulme
Coming out of the. That's a that's amazing. I, I'm a text drew as soon as the show is over and.

00:36:26:06 - 00:36:29:19
Smylie Kaufman
I should have been in the I should have been in the design world. Charlie I think I think.

00:36:29:20 - 00:36:43:16
Charlie Hulme
You should have. You should have. Yeah. That was that was off rip. This is the first time you've seen this design. So. All right, let's hope we can. And now this is we're we're gonna. Of course, we're gonna have to offer this in the shop if we're even allowed to do that, because I can we can we cut?

00:36:43:16 - 00:36:56:21
Charlie Hulme
I think we should cut some of the proceeds of this hat. How about how about. This is yet another cool thing. I saw an error. Rye. You know, the the me and my golf logo he wears on his shirt. You know how much he charges for wearing that logo?

00:36:56:23 - 00:36:58:21
Smylie Kaufman
I guess the Euro dollars.

00:36:58:23 - 00:37:14:14
Charlie Hulme
$0. Because they he worked with them his entire, like, childhood. You know, growing up they kind of instructed him and he gets to to the, you know, the tour and he's just wears it because he's he appreciates what they did for him. Guys, this guy's just the best. So it's good to be a ride guy. And that's why.

00:37:14:18 - 00:37:16:08
Smylie Kaufman
That's why you should be a ride guy.

00:37:16:09 - 00:37:28:10
Charlie Hulme
Yeah that's why you should be a ride guy. So we should, like, cut some of this to me and my golf or something. Anyway, I love it. You have more PGA Championship recap because I feel like there is.

00:37:28:11 - 00:37:45:01
Smylie Kaufman
I was going to answer my own question. I was going to answer my own. I was going to answer my own question that I asked you. I saw a lot of grit and JT on Sunday. Yeah. Lot of grit and a lot of moments that reminded me of of just the dog that this guy has locked in the chamber.

00:37:45:01 - 00:38:09:06
Smylie Kaufman
And we've seen enough of, like, really top end stuff from JT this year. It's just it's been really weird for being the guy that's been so consistent his whole career to have just, you know, just the variability of of playing really well, but also finishing last in some events. It's like just unheard of stuff from JT. But there were some really great things that he showed, especially making big pots.

00:38:09:06 - 00:38:33:17
Smylie Kaufman
And you have to love for him when the if the putter is is back, that's that just opens up his game, man. Because if he's healthy and swinging it well, which he seems to be driving the golf ball better, that's the one guy I look for to have a really nice second half of the season. And the other guy was, I think Jon Rahm is going to win a major this year, and I think he may win every LIV event.

00:38:33:17 - 00:38:40:00
Smylie Kaufman
They have dressier, right? Like he's and dude the LIV guys play great. This is probably the.

00:38:40:00 - 00:38:40:11
Charlie Hulme
Best.

00:38:40:13 - 00:38:51:04
Smylie Kaufman
The major that they've had in quite some time. Like guys were up there really having a chance. Everybody had a chance to be fair, but it felt like there was some really solid play.

00:38:51:06 - 00:39:11:10
Charlie Hulme
And that's a good TP here for where we're going to go next. Smylie. Because there is a a ton of news on, on, on multiple tour fronts. I think we're going to save the most recent reporting from Josh Carpenter of Sports Business Journal, by the way, like Josh Carpenter should just get a producing credit for the next 15 to 20 minutes of the show because all these reports seem to be coming from him.

00:39:11:10 - 00:39:36:21
Charlie Hulme
He does such a great job covering the business side of both these tours. But the PGA tour, of course, announced, you know, or not announced. But there are reports, solid, concrete reports about the formation of their 2028 schedule, what that's going to look like, it is further solidification of what Brian Rollup outlined at the players. And I think you can say that a large part of the reason why that tour is taking this shape is the influence of LIV these past few years.

00:39:36:22 - 00:40:05:01
Charlie Hulme
The increase in purse is the sort of impetus of, hey, we have to modernize, we have to change our business structure, we have to change this nebulous product that we're working on and meanwhile, LIV. Here are the three main pieces of news that we have on LIV in the past couple of weeks. The first is that Axios had had a report that Liv golf was planning to raise, or needing to raise 250 million from new investors, with the hope being profitable within 20 months with if that funding is secured.

00:40:05:03 - 00:40:33:03
Charlie Hulme
There were also reports that it could raise significantly less 150 million range and bank on the rising team values and a new media rights deal, and they have until the start of October to raise those funds before the money runs out. I saw it pointed out on Twitter and its and its adept and adept observation that Piff was spending a billion per year on LIV and these past few seasons, and that tournament prize money alone in this 2026 season is 462 million.

00:40:33:05 - 00:40:54:13
Charlie Hulme
The other report that I saw that we all saw is that Bloomberg is reporting the LIV golf league has begun laying the groundwork to potentially file for bankruptcy in the United States, the conclusion of the 2026 season. And that is, of course, a possible outcome if they cannot secure funding. And the next, you know, let's call it four and a half, five months.

00:40:54:19 - 00:41:18:22
Charlie Hulme
So this is a very precarious position to be in. The other piece of news we saw is that there was just kind of continuing to reinforce where they are financially. Is that the Korea Open? They'd announced a purse increase of more than 40% backed by Liv golf a few weeks ago. But then yesterday they had to kind of revert back to the original purse, just further indicating this money is drying up very, very quickly.

00:41:18:22 - 00:41:36:12
Charlie Hulme
And so I wonder, Smylie, and whether we want to start on the business side of things or reverse back to where you just left, which is the PGA Championship, where you have a lot of guys. And these were conversations we were having walking around Iran and make this weekend and said, hey, what happens if Jon Rahm wins? What happens if Cam Smith wins?

00:41:36:12 - 00:42:01:10
Charlie Hulme
What happens if Wacky Niemann wins that? There are a lot of guys here that are that are playing good golf in these majors and good golf abroad and that, you know, they're theoretically either delaying the clock on a return program that looks similar to Patrick Reed's or if you're in the ramen Cam Smith category, maybe changing the math on your returning member program that Brooks Koepka received when he came back.

00:42:01:10 - 00:42:06:13
Charlie Hulme
So how are you reacting to the latest round of reports on where Liv golf stands?

00:42:06:15 - 00:42:32:07
Smylie Kaufman
Yeah, I know that's all. You know, all all those reports. Very well said. And yeah, Josh is absolutely just keeping everybody informed of the things that are going on between both tours. You know, this this whole, you know, players going from the PGA tour to LIV, it was all guaranteed. Right. Like that was the reason why players left so that they knew that if something happened with LIV that they were guaranteed to be paid.

00:42:32:07 - 00:42:59:04
Smylie Kaufman
So I think what we're going to find out moving forward is how guaranteed was this money and what did these contracts really look like? And so when you look at this bankruptcy thing that recently just came out for somebody does not really understand bankruptcy law or how these contracts are laid out by any shape or form. This is to me, LIV saying we don't want to be on the hook for these contracts.

00:42:59:04 - 00:43:21:07
Smylie Kaufman
And however, you know, these contracts are structured, these players are either going to have to deal with the Piff, or they're going to have to figure out a way in which they get their money back. That maybe wouldn't be through Liv golf. And so from a players standpoint, you're just thinking to yourself, all right, you know, you hope that they're able to go and fundraise money.

00:43:21:07 - 00:43:42:02
Smylie Kaufman
And that's, you know, step one because I think a lot of these players do want to stay. And because they don't want to they don't want to know what the option is to either sit out on the PGA tour. Like that isn't fun for a player like to, you know, if you if you LIV in the States and you got to keep on travel, keep on travel to play globally, that's not really what you want to do.

00:43:42:02 - 00:44:09:10
Smylie Kaufman
And so I think these players that are making a bunch of money, they want to keep making a bunch of money, and they also want to see out, you know, how much value there is in these teams. Like is there value? I think there are some players that in teams that feel like there is value, but that is something that is a huge question mark that I think if you're a PGA tour fan, that you would say there's no value, but I think the LIV side would say, oh, there's tons of value.

00:44:09:11 - 00:44:51:23
Smylie Kaufman
You should see, you know, how much money these teams are making. And I'm not one to tell you whether they are going to make money or or not to save this league, but I think they are heavily relying. I think LIV and Scott O'Neal are heavily relying on these teams to be to work. And for Bryson and Jon Rahm and these players to be around in this, because if they if they're not tied to this, you know, the whole recruiting of new players to potentially save face in this, to new investors, that that's not something that's going to happen nor be attractive to anybody that's trying to invest into this, this new restructured league that's

00:44:51:23 - 00:45:30:20
Smylie Kaufman
potentially in this bankruptcy filing phase to to make sure that they have all the options on the table moving forward. So how I see it is, is that the players are in wait and watch and see mode right now. And I think you'd be smart to really have good warriors right now. See what your contract really looks like, to see what options you have to potentially either get out and see if you were able to get paid, because there's been plenty of players that have gotten second and third deals, that Liv golf that potentially could walk away with, you know, who knows what.

00:45:30:21 - 00:45:49:02
Smylie Kaufman
You know, I got I I'm not comparing it to anything. We try to compare it to anything because we really don't have much to compare it to. Besides, I played on a mini tour once and I can tell you this. This is a very, very this examples probably not great because we're dealing with like hundreds of dollars versus billions of dollars.

00:45:49:03 - 00:46:15:07
Smylie Kaufman
And so I'll explain to you how it was in the mini tour that I played. It was the Hopkins tour. I have no problem saying the name because they because they still owe me you symphony. So they I played this event and I had won the event. It was, I think for $15,000 and I had played the week prior, and I think I finished second or third and was owed somewhere around like $6,000.

00:46:15:07 - 00:46:33:04
Smylie Kaufman
And I had not gotten a check from the week prior to that. And so I had, you know, just finished college, you know, earlier that year. And so I was just thinking like, oh, you know, like, I'm going to get paid like, like clearly because I paid them to play in the golf tournament. Like where, where did the money like where did the money go?

00:46:33:05 - 00:46:53:02
Smylie Kaufman
Like I gave it to him. So like, they should just pile it all together and divvy it up. I thought that's how it worked. And so I'm on my third, you know, Hopkins tour event in a row and won this event and then realized down the road that they had a third party that was going to be, you know, paying out everything.

00:46:53:03 - 00:47:21:00
Smylie Kaufman
And so I'd gotten actually a check from that first event or maybe even the second event, but it may have just been the first, which was like for 2500. But then what? You know, what do companies may do is, you know, like once they look at all the finances and realize like, oh, well, I didn't I didn't see this, this whole sheet of of what your, you know, what your liabilities were and what, what, how much debt you were of, of things that weren't paid out already.

00:47:21:01 - 00:47:45:16
Smylie Kaufman
And so when you compare this to the LIV golf tour, you know, there's going to be new businesses that are looking at the sheets and say, well, oh, wait, we we don't want to be on the hook for that John Ross deal. We don't want to be on the hook for that Dustin Johnson deal. So they're they're restructuring in this bankruptcy thing so that their balance sheets look attractive.

00:47:45:16 - 00:48:09:19
Smylie Kaufman
And so that's that's the best way I can kind of describe all this other than Hopkins Stewart didn't pay me. So if that leads to if that leads to what may happen with LIV I, I don't there's probably other people in business here that can, can kind of relate to this and have their own experiences. They can say, yeah, they're not getting investment.

00:48:09:19 - 00:48:23:13
Smylie Kaufman
Or there may be people say, you know what? The teams might be attractive enough. And guess what? There's a lot of people that are investing in sports right now. And so that's also something that could be attractive to somebody I don't know.

00:48:23:15 - 00:48:53:22
Charlie Hulme
Yeah. Well, and I think that one of the one of the points being made on behalf of, you know, optimism that there will be investment is that there's there's a sense that some of the hesitance to invest and leave LIV prior to this was because the Saudis were involved, and that maybe that there's more of a, you know, willingness to get involved because that regime and just, you know, the way that they've done things in the past and just how there's this trepidation there around who's controlling the business.

00:48:53:22 - 00:49:16:16
Charlie Hulme
And, you know, what's the human rights track record, all those sorts of things, you know, come into play for potential investor? I think it's man. I also think that, to your point on both the bankruptcy deal and the fact that the whole there are reports around the force majeure trying to invoke that to get out of these deals, like they're looking for outs and just they're trying to get off the hook for all these big financial commitments they've made.

00:49:16:18 - 00:49:46:09
Charlie Hulme
I think if you're looking at this, I think you got to put yourself in three different places, like you have to put yourself in the LIV players position. You have to put yourself in the LIV, you know, administrator, CEO type of position. You have to put yourself in a potential investors position and best stores position. And so starting with the player, I just if you're talking about a potential bankruptcy case, and especially if you're a John Romney, you have a longer term deal and you are wondering like, how much of that money?

00:49:46:14 - 00:50:04:01
Charlie Hulme
Am I going to get? Am I going to get any of that money, depending on what it looks like in court? Again, not saying we're bankruptcy experts, but just knowing that that's the general way these things work is do what? Like how much longer do I want to keep playing this and delaying a return to a tour where actually will get paid long term?

00:50:04:02 - 00:50:18:08
Charlie Hulme
If the whole idea was to come here for guaranteed money, I'm not going to get the bulk. Some of that, like if I came for 400 million, I'm only getting 200 of it. I've gotten and I've already, you know, I've got I've got 150 million that already in the bank. Like at what point do I cut bait right now and get out of here?

00:50:18:08 - 00:50:37:16
Charlie Hulme
And by the way, like if if they are actively trying to shed money, I know, I know, it hurts their ability to go out and fundraise against the league. But like they're they're playing this game of chicken where it's like you, you need the John ROMs and the Bryson DeChambeau to go attract potential investors. But a certain point, you're not going to get the investment.

00:50:37:16 - 00:50:56:16
Charlie Hulme
You got to shed those contracts if guys want to get out. So you're not on the hook for those things. So I feel like if I'm a if I'm one of those guys and I want to be playing competitive golf, I'm trying to see if there is a Brooks Koepka esque out to to to, you know, just say, hey, let's just both cut our losses here because then you don't have to worry about that.

00:50:56:17 - 00:50:57:18
Smylie Kaufman
It's two sides.

00:50:57:18 - 00:51:05:02
Charlie Hulme
Of this because if it goes the bankruptcy, what if they don't get the money? Why are we even here? Well, now. Now you can't play tour events.

00:51:05:06 - 00:51:19:08
Smylie Kaufman
It's so hard because like from from an investment standpoint and portfolio of players, you need it to be attractive. Like you need totally rom in there. So they're thinking like how how can we still pay him.

00:51:19:09 - 00:51:20:05
Charlie Hulme
Leverage those guys?

00:51:20:05 - 00:51:33:06
Smylie Kaufman
I get that because if it if it wasn't up front and if it was installments of every year we're paying UX, it's now you're in a position of where are you going to come up with that extra $50 million?

00:51:33:08 - 00:51:35:06
Charlie Hulme
Yeah.

00:51:35:08 - 00:51:39:23
Smylie Kaufman
I don't know. That's the question. But that was that was risk.

00:51:40:00 - 00:51:56:07
Charlie Hulme
Well, and I think I think that's what players perspective from the from the administrators perspective, it's a little bit of what we just touched on there where it's like, what's the balancing act here? Like I need to go out and try to get this money and sell this. But at a certain point, I got to figure out how to get out of this as fast as I can without us.

00:51:56:08 - 00:52:21:11
Charlie Hulme
You know, being on the hook to make all these investors and people good that we currently had. And then I think from the investor side, it's I just don't get I think I think I think it would take a lot of vanity to invest in this and a lot of like, you know, because because the things that they're banking on, like, you can't tell me that if the league's been spending a billion all these past few years to get where they are now, and you're asking for 250 million.

00:52:21:11 - 00:52:21:22
Charlie Hulme
Yeah.

00:52:22:00 - 00:52:22:03
Smylie Kaufman
You're.

00:52:22:06 - 00:52:36:01
Charlie Hulme
Gonna make you probable. There's just no way like the quality of the event has to suffer. Something has to suffer there. There have to be cuts. Right. And I'm sure there are some easy cuts, but I'm sure it's not like all those are going to be easy cuts to get down to that number. So, so if.

00:52:36:06 - 00:53:01:02
Smylie Kaufman
LIV like from a TV side to Charlie, like we don't talk about that enough. That's the thing. That's the thing about purses we've talked about. We talked about the players. But like they they don't they're not making a ton on these TV deals because it has not worked anything. So that's like one of their big problems. But also how much money Piff was spending on TV because LIV was producing all of this.

00:53:01:03 - 00:53:21:17
Smylie Kaufman
Fox has not produced it. So the in-house production and how much they invested into that was the reason why a lot of people enjoyed the product, because there was a ton of shots, a ton of cameras and a lot of people working on the show. Now, if you get a ripped version of of that show that is now a ton of advertisements.

00:53:21:18 - 00:53:44:23
Smylie Kaufman
Well, a lot of people that enjoy the show because of the West commercials and seeing all the shots and all the different streams, like then you're losing the the people that really enjoyed the product. Now the product was was never quite for me. I never really have enjoyed it too much going on. And and that's okay. Like I'm fine for people that that do like the product.

00:53:45:00 - 00:54:10:01
Smylie Kaufman
It's just it's just not what I enjoy watching. I'm a traditionalist. And so that's so when you start looking at, you know, all these boxes that we're creating, Charlie, it's like where in the pie chart are you divvying up all this money? Are you making sure that that Jon Rahm has made full in all this? And the guys who had these guaranteed contracts first, like, is that is that the most important thing?

00:54:10:02 - 00:54:50:00
Smylie Kaufman
Is the TV product investing in that the most important thing? Is it going to be, you know, the on site experience and, you know, getting Kygo to come on Saturday, like where at some point in all of this, if the teams aren't bringing back a monetary value of a great some that the League, of course, has invested monetary ownership of, they are not in a good spot because I just don't see how the purses are great, vastly affected in all this to make it just a glorified, you know, whatever you want to call it.

00:54:50:00 - 00:54:52:22
Smylie Kaufman
B to C tour purse, right? Like especially with.

00:54:52:22 - 00:54:53:07
Charlie Hulme
The tour.

00:54:53:10 - 00:54:56:13
Smylie Kaufman
To be $30 million purse is potentially.

00:54:56:15 - 00:55:19:22
Charlie Hulme
It's got it's got to be Hopkins tour. Plus I mean I really do think I mean because I just don't I think if you are the TV thing is the biggest and most important one because I'm sorry. Like optimism over a new TV contract when the previous one was produced. The best you're ever going to produce it because you're underwriting these massive production costs via the Piff.

00:55:19:23 - 00:55:39:14
Charlie Hulme
So if you're going to make the TV product worse and you're going to have less good players and you're already you're most successful events are the ones that aren't traditional, you know, American TV windows, how are you going to sell that? And you can't tell me, I'm sorry, you can't sell me on on the idea that, like, oh, TV companies didn't want to get involved because of the Saudis.

00:55:39:15 - 00:56:15:13
Charlie Hulme
It's like putty. Fox is about to broadcast the World Cup where they're, you know, FIFA's not the most, you know, a glowing of organizations in terms of human rights records and the people that are tied up in like so it's not like, you know, a fox isn't lining up to pay money to for a product that is going to do well from a television perspective, you know, so so it's it's just not compelling enough a product or it's not drawing the ratings that you need to draw to sell against it in that like like I just don't see how materially that changes in the next four months to where they're going to get $250 million.

00:56:15:13 - 00:56:24:22
Charlie Hulme
I just think if anyone comes in at that number, it's it's just you just throwing really. I was going to say good money after bad throwing. Bad money. Yeah. No, because the player is the way.

00:56:25:00 - 00:56:51:13
Smylie Kaufman
The players that are over there, they they have to be worried, but they have to remain hopeful because what else what else can you do? Because you're just kind of over there just waiting, living for something. Well, you you could leave. But and I imagine that LIV isn't going to let you out of your contract because they I'm sure they have rights over you in this because you signed over your ability to go play in that.

00:56:51:13 - 00:57:21:23
Smylie Kaufman
And and the only time that I guess, you know, what Scott has been saying is that you're a wild to play. In any other event, it just can't be during a LIV tour event. So you've seen players make these deals with a DP World Tour? I just in the PGA Tour's you know and Brian roll out. They've been pretty dang strong in this and saying that like hey yeah there's there's some people who are interested in but like to the most part like kick rocks.

00:57:21:23 - 00:57:48:00
Smylie Kaufman
And so I think those guys that he's referring to, well, they're just kind of stuck and hopefully, you know, you go play well the rest of the year they're playing for a bunch of money. Why do these guys made a ton while they're over there? And when you look back on this period of time it again it's it's the PGA tour has been reacting and trying to reshape their business because of the disruption of whip golf.

00:57:48:00 - 00:58:06:04
Smylie Kaufman
And now that we are to this point where LIV is running on fumes and trying to or gasoline back in the tank with, you know, fires going around, it's it's it's going to be interesting to see if LIV exists next year. My prediction is that.

00:58:06:05 - 00:58:06:16
Charlie Hulme
I'm.

00:58:06:20 - 00:58:20:20
Smylie Kaufman
Is that it won't. But there are other people that think there will be a shell version of this, and I don't disagree. I just think that it's going to be a really scaled back version. So but right now I kind of lean with you on this.

00:58:20:22 - 00:58:40:15
Charlie Hulme
Well, I just think and this is my last thought on it because I know long for this episode, but I just think this is why I'd say if I'm a player, I, you know, every I know you're considering breach of contract and guaranteed money and what's going to happen all this and that. But I think the longer you wait, the more leverage you lose.

00:58:40:16 - 00:59:03:00
Charlie Hulme
Like, think about the structure of the deals that Brooks Koepka and Patrick Reed got back in February, when we didn't have all this reporting about pulling funding and the future league, they were still viewed as potentially a viable competitor. I mean, and Jon Rahm, you know, he was worked out that deal kind of in in lockstep timing with the whole LIVrpool.

00:59:03:00 - 00:59:21:02
Charlie Hulme
It's you know where he's playing these events on DP World Tour, retaining his membership there and being able to play on the Ryder Cup. But every moment that passes where LIV looks more and more like they're on, on shaky ground and might dissolve is is another it's like, okay, if Brooks had to pay 5 million to charity, come back now.

00:59:21:02 - 00:59:37:08
Charlie Hulme
You got to pay ten. Okay. Like. All right. Bryson, you just said some stuff about how the PGA tour needs you. All right. Guess what. Now it's 20. Oh, you don't like it? Oh. Where else are you going to play? I mean, I just think that it's it's I'm not sure. I'm not trying to be, you know, horizontal LIV guys, but it's like it's really a part of this.

00:59:37:08 - 00:59:44:11
Charlie Hulme
A big part of this is a negotiation. It's a leverage game and you're losing it by the moment with every one of these reports comes out about LIV.

00:59:44:13 - 01:00:07:16
Smylie Kaufman
So here's the thing about that is that the only thing that Jon Rahm or Bryson DeChambeau will lose is just a year of their time. They right. You know they don't have to. They do not have to pay the fines. What what happened with like for instance with with Patrick Reed. Right. Like he wins on the DP World Tour and all of a sudden like he had not resigned with Liv golf.

01:00:07:16 - 01:00:29:22
Smylie Kaufman
And so at that time he was well shoot, I'm just going to go get one of these DP World Tour cards and get back onto the PGA tour. And so there was a loophole here of like, okay, here's where I know my suspension will be in. The same would be for for Bryson and John Ramon. In that case, if they didn't want to jump straight back to the PGA tour, now the PGA tour will, you know, come with an offer.

01:00:29:23 - 01:00:50:20
Smylie Kaufman
This is what it is. And it's not a there's no negotiation in it. It's like this. This is what it is. And if we know anything about rom in this is that that he's been pretty hard headed on it because we we both believe that he should have accepted the DP World Tour, a deal which was just a four tournament offer that he's like, no, I would never play for.

01:00:50:20 - 01:00:56:00
Smylie Kaufman
It's like, dude, like, this is this, isn't that right? I think it was.

01:00:56:02 - 01:00:57:00
Charlie Hulme
It was six and he wanted.

01:00:57:00 - 01:00:58:01
Smylie Kaufman
To six.

01:00:58:04 - 01:01:01:19
Charlie Hulme
It was 61 to play for because the fifth is as we discussed, six is a lot. Fifth.

01:01:01:19 - 01:01:03:06
Smylie Kaufman
I, I can understand that.

01:01:03:09 - 01:01:23:04
Charlie Hulme
But but the fifth, the one he added on was Scottish Open with the PGA tour. It's interesting how the stuff's turning. I think you're right. I think you're right there. I think that that if they are willing to say, okay, like I'll just go play. You're on the DP World Tour, I'll bank on the fact that playing against some of those fields, I will finish top ten.

01:01:23:07 - 01:01:25:18
Charlie Hulme
I'll earn that category in the majors.

01:01:25:20 - 01:01:57:17
Smylie Kaufman
Like he gets him. It's it would be the easiest way for him to get back to PGA tour if he wants to save money. And and especially if he's not going to get paid out his full some and he's made I think of I think he's made $87 million just on the golf course over there. If he ends up not getting his full payout, the only thing that he really loses is that whatever he had for the PGA tour, retirement or whatever the future profit earning entity is.

01:01:57:19 - 01:01:58:09
Charlie Hulme
A tour.

01:01:58:13 - 01:02:24:04
Smylie Kaufman
Yeah, yeah, like which from what I understand, is very lucrative. And Jon Rahm was going to be a 100,000,000 million millionaire regardless if he was playing the PGA tour LIV. Now, you could probably double exit a little bit of how much he's made over it LIV. But you take away some of this, you know, guaranteed money that he was, that he might not receive well if he played really well on the PGA tour.

01:02:24:05 - 01:02:47:10
Smylie Kaufman
These guys are making a lot of dang money to how close would it have actually been in a nutshell, because both tours are making both players. If you're playing good on each tour, you're making a lot of money. Now it's pretty, pretty wild. The, you know, the medium to low end player. On with how much they can make for playing average to poor compared to the PGA tour where you're missing cuts.

01:02:47:11 - 01:02:59:16
Smylie Kaufman
It's that's that's a bit drastic. The guaranteed Ines of it. Not to say that we don't have a guaranteed model of the PGA tour, which I completely disagree with, but that's a conversation for next week.

01:02:59:18 - 01:03:37:22
Charlie Hulme
It is indeed. We're looking forward to unpacking the PGA tour side of this equation. Two tracks looking good because it looks like track. We've been saying that player fields track 240 player fields I mean this is what we asked for. So we are unpacking that. And then we're hoping having my fellow Durham might Shane Ryan on the show talk about that, maybe talk a little bit about the identity of the PGA Championship coming off a week where he was one of the three stars of the press corps with his line of questioning to Gary Kygo, I'll word another star to Doug Ferguson for the trees exchange with Andrew Shapley, but I can't wait to talk

01:03:37:22 - 01:03:52:01
Charlie Hulme
to Shane about all those things. So that's what we got for you today. And yeah, look forward to that. That in addition to a recap of smiling Confidence, favorite golf course on the planet, TPC Craig Ranch that's coming next week. You.