>> Julia: Welcome to Things I Wish I Knew, the podcast from

Thinking Faith, a work of the Jesuits in Britain.

I'm Julia. I'm in my early 30s and I used to live

in a Jesuit young adult community. We all live

hectic lives and often don't get time to reflect

on what's happening both to us and around us. This

podcast is meant to help you to take a moment to

stop and think about where you are, where you're

going and, where your relationship with God fits

into it all. Every week, I meet a new guest who

tells me about something they experienced which

changed their life forever. By talking about the

things they wish they'd known, we'll explore the

idea that God is in all things. And we'll talk

about the part that faith plays in navigating

life's challenges.

Today I'm speaking to Dallya who works for the

Jesuit Refugee Service. She's speaking about her

journey from Sudan to the uk and how friendship,

welcome and safe spaces and shaped her experience

of settling into a new country. So, Dallya what do

you remember most about arriving in the UK from

Sudan?

>> Dallya: I, remember the feeling it was quiet inside me,

but, overwhelmed around me as well. I'm in a

different place, different language, different

culture, different backgrounds. So I was

processing it, but I felt like I'm starting a new

chapter of my life. And the story not started yet.

>> Julia: So what was it like navigating the new systems and

the new culture and the new language?

>> Dallya: Yeah, and also I was grieving, leaving my loved

one behind and my childhood, my family, friends,

everyone. And I'm here in a new place and I don't

know if, I will survive. I. And, I didn't at that

time, like, if I will carry on, like, living here

or not.

>> Julia: So why was then the first Oxfam women's group so

important for you?

>> Dallya: Because, it was the first place where I didn't

feel like the new person. I, felt like myself

again. And the space gave me the confidence to

speak, to connect and slowly rebuild my sense of

identity.

>> Julia: So what is the Oxam women's group? Is it a group

of women from all different cultures and

backgrounds and languages?

>> Dallya: Yes. they had this project, like a, women's group

in different cities in Wales. And they provided

the space, safe space for the women to come and

enjoy the different activities and also the

activities designed for women, non speaking

English and, different faith and different

backgrounds. And also we had, the space for our

children to join with us because, childcare could

Be a barrier, for you to join something like that.

And to be honest, was the, first hand, I lean on

that time and it was the safest space for me to be

without feeling different from other women. I

wasn't in the asylum system at that time because I

came with my status from Sudan, but we felt the

same, like how to integrate with the society. New

one for us.

>> Julia: Yeah. Did you already speak English or did you

have to?

>> Dallya: To be honest, I learned English my school, but

when I came here I felt that it's completely

different even. Yes and no. I couldn't understand.

Maybe because of the accent.

>> Julia: Yeah. And I guess because you were based in Wales

as well, like you had the Welsh as well. So what

led you to volunteer with the group?

>> Dallya: because I was active as well in terms of helping

around and I was helping newcomer as well to the

group. The facilitator asked me, like, if you want

to help more. And I said, yeah, of course. And

then from that led me to my first, job with Oxfam.

With the time I became like the one who coordinate

in all the groups in Wales.

>> Julia: Wow, that's a big job.

>> Dallya: Yeah.

>> Julia: So what did you learn from that?

>> Dallya: a lot. First of all, I had the understanding what

they are going through and also give me the chance

to help them more. And it was, to be honest, I'm

not going to lie, it was very big and also made me

work more on myself to understand, language, to

understand how to communicate with the women and

the people who are running the, the groups itself.

And one of the things I've done I'm so proud of,

we had, a training course in three cities in

Wales. And one of the biggest challenges for the

women to join this was the transport and child

care. So I managed to arrange, buses from Cardiff

or wherever they are to come to the training. And

also I provided, childcare inside the training for

them to come with their loved one. And also we

arranged for them to get help for their kids to be

picked up from school and someone look after them

until they finish their journey and come back.

>> Julia: I'm mightily impressed because I lived in

Aberystwyth for a year. I know how difficult it is

to get transport anywhere from like Aberyst,

anywhere else in Wales. Like to get to Cardiff you

have to come back into England to Shrewsbury and

then get trained down. So, like, I, I understand

the impressiveness of that, of having put the

transport on in particular.

So now you work for the Jesuit Refugee Service.

What is the Jesuit Refugee Service?

>> Dallya: First of all, you will get like someone open the

door for you with a big smile and welcoming you as

a space you can get the support you need. If you

really need help from jrs, you're going to get it

there. So we have, different teams providing

different services. For me, I'm working as an

activities coordinator, running different

activities in the centre. And all the activities

are designed what the refugee friends need, not

our desires. And we listen, we try to understand

their needs. Also we have the case worker team. We

have like, accommodation team. We have two houses

to accommodate, people. Not a huge amount of

people. We can't, unfortunately, but we're doing

our best. And also we have hosting scheme, which

is if you have a room to accommodate refugee

friends in your house. And also we have, legal

advice team. And we have every other week we have

like social, dropping. We provide a hot meal,

cooked by our refugee friends. And also it's a

space for everyone to come together as a staff,

volunteers and refugee friends, which is one of

the nicest space to be together. There is many

things going on.

>> Julia: I was going to say it sounds like a lot is going

on. I had the privilege once when I was living in

a Jesuit young adult community where we did for a

year host, a refugee friend, which was an absolute

privilege and to have that experience as well. one

of the things I wanted to ask you about is why do

JRS call service users refugee friends?

>> Dallya: each organisation, or charity I work with, they

call them different, terms. But for this one is,

remind us that people are not defined by their

situation. it creates like, equality. You are not

just giving support, you are sharing life. Even in

a small way. I feel like it's remove level and

give you dignity as well.

>> Julia: That's really nice.

Okay, so let's go back to what you were just

saying about assumptions. Why is it bad for

somebody to make an assumption about how they can

fix the situation?

>> Dallya: Because when I make assumption, that's something I

thought about you or think about you. But

listening come from respect. And when you really

listen, you understand that someone actually needs

not what you think they need.

>> Julia: I guess it comes down to that idea that everybody

has dignity. And by listening and not making an

assumption, you're giving them their dignity to

make the decision for themselves.

>> Dallya: Yeah.

>> Julia: So how can we all be more welcoming in our daily

lives?

>> Dallya: Just be kind, smile and be present and it really

can make a huge difference in other people. And,

in your life as well.

>> Julia: And, what do you wish people so, like, for

example, I've. I've been to visit but never moved

to a brand new country. What do you wish people

knew about that experience?

>> Dallya: So, moving to somewhere new, it's not just

physically, but it's also emotionally and

mentally. You have no idea, like, what's gonna

happen to you. And also you feel like you left

your whole life behind. So I believe it's

overwhelming to the person and for the other

people, for the community to make that person, to

understand that and do little things can calm them

down and, make them feel welcome. We can see you

even if you are different from us. You speak

different language, your skin colour, your

background, everything is different. But still

we're here for you, treating you as a human and

you are welcome. We all the same. So this is.

Could make like, that person feel like. I can be

myself, I can be seen and heard as well.

>> Julia: So what moment made you feel truly welcome?

>> Dallya: When people were patient with me, when they didn't

rush and they remember my name and, sit down with

me and showed me kindness. And also I believe,

like, very little small things can make a huge

difference. A smile in your face or at least not

to be rude to me. M. Yeah.

>> Julia: Which is really interesting because as a British

culture, and particularly a London culture that's

so the opposite, we've got this kind of cold

culture where we keep to ourselves, we put our

headphones in, we don't look at people, and if we

do look at them, they might start being a bit

strange to us. How. How did that feel to you

coming in from a very warm, welcoming culture to

that?

>> Dallya: Yeah, I suffered a lot. My start was in Wales and

I would say, like, to be honest, more, friendly

than London. sorry, guys. And Maurice Smiley and,

people over there, they use like, hi, thank you.

Like welcoming words more than here. London still

was a huge difference for me because, where I came

from, oh my God, I can't even describe. Like,

people can feed you, the last kind of food if you

come to them as a guest and make you feel their

house is yours and they are your guest. So this is

a culture I came from and I found it, like, even

when I studied in Wales, it was like, okay, in a

cashier to be yourself. That was a shock for me.

So I was different, to be honest, in uni, in

college, in work as well, when I used to like beer

for people and insist on that. And, I was

different and in another site, most of the people

have been close to people who working in the

charity. And we. And they got this human side. I

don't know. I'm, I think I'm, I'm lucky on that

term. I got people, they really care about others

and they believe in giving, but it's very big,

difference. and I felt that on my kids as well, to

be honest. Like, when they go out with their

friends or inviting them or they being invited, I

was surprised. Like, people, they don't give like

the same way. And I heard many comments from my

daughter's friends how they feel very welcomed

when they visit us. And me coming with food and

drinks and things. They say, like, okay. And one

day her friend, she asked her, like, do. Do we

have to pay? She said, no, my m. Mom going to kill

us if we say.

>> Julia: Going back to working with jrs, which is a

Catholic organisation, but you yourself, a Muslim,

how has that been as an experience?

>> Dallya: Oh, it's one of the best, thing happened to me, to

be honest. And if you feel weird with that, so for

me, first of all, before even apply for that job,

for the job for me, before I applied to the job, I

called and I said, like, I've seen this job at

first, and I'm Muslim and this is Catholic

organisation. Do you accept my application for.

And they said, of course, no problem, you're

welcome. And that was my first thing. And to be

honest, I feel like, showed me that value like

compassion, service and dignity are shared across

faith. And I felt like, we're working toward the

same purpose. Despite, like, our differences in

faith or your background, I feel valued and

respected in my work, environment. I have my, We

have our own space to break the respect,

everything related to my religion, prayer time,

fasting time. And, it's not only for me, for

everyone else, when even different faith, not like

only Muslim or Christian, everyone. So, words

can't help me to express how I feel about this.

>> Julia: How do they support you in your prayer life then?

>> Dallya: So, for example, like every day as a Muslim, we

pray five times. I can go and pray it, even if

it's not like on my lunch break, but still I can

take five, ten minutes and, pray and come

>> Julia: back, which is really great that you feel that

support. And I imagine a lot of the. Of the people

you work with, your refugee friends, are also

Muslim. So if they're able to see that with you,

they probably also Feel they can be supported as

well.

>> Dallya: Yeah, to be honest, we do have like many refugee

friends which are Muslim and they feel we respect

that and we are the place for them even if it's

Catholic organisation for them to come and get

support like from us. For example, like when I

said when I spoke earlier about the shop, do you

know like during Ramadan they added like the dates

which is. It's very important for us as a Muslim

to break our fast with dates. And also the, the

prayer space not only for us as staff. No, it's

for everyone. It's safe space for the women,

Muslim women to be and take their time and pray.

Because when I joined Jarrez in 2019 and we used

to have the day centre every Thursday, that was

the most difficult day during the week for me to

find a place to pray. I used to just pray in a

chair because we normally pray for in very private

space and m. They noticed that and they created

the space for us which is just something. I can't

even thank them enough for that. So it's a multi

faith prayer room. Whatever you want your

religion, you are welcome to pray. We have Bibles,

we have Quran, we have pictures for different

religion on the space and also other Catholic

organisation for them to, for us. Why I'm saying

them. Yeah, to have iftar in Ramadan for the third

year this year that was very respectful and

valuable for people who are Muslim and non Muslim

as well because it give us a chance as a Muslim to

explain to other people who are non Muslim what's

Ramadan? Because even during Ramadan some people,

they saw they can't drink water in front of us.

But in Ramadan we, during the, we spoke about like

what's fasting to Muslim it means and how. And

it's okay to drink and I can make food for you as

well to eat. It's okay because as long as it's

coming from the faith not just to stop eating and

drinking. And to be honest, every Muslim within

the organisation like as a volunteer or staff

member or refugee friend, they felt like very

grateful for JRS to help Ramadan, iftar for them.

And also we had the Imam from the mosque which is

the, the leader of the prayer in the mosque came

to the centre, delivered like delivered a speech

before iftar and then we break our iftar together

and then we have like we had prayer together in a

specific place for, for the prayer. So everyone

like praying joined that and after that we had

iftar. Not only for Muslim, for everyone. And I

believe that was a space put us together as human.

No, like what, what's your background or your

religion or your whatever just sharing meal and be

at the same time.

>> Julia: I guess that comes back to the idea you were

saying about we're all the same in lots of ways.

And it's about finding the things that we have in

common rather than finding things that are

different, which is a very hopeful thing to have.

What gives you hope when walking alongside refugee

friends?

>> Dallya: to be honest, we are learning from them more than

they are learning from us because despite

everything they've been through, they keep going

and keep dreaming, keep rebuilding and that's

powerful. So I am learning that from them. And

it's two ways, not only one way when I've been

there for them, try to be present, listening to

their needs and also that give me hope to carry on

and give me the reason why I can roll out of my

bed every day to be better version of myself. Not

only for me but for them as well. And that will

come back to me. And try to create the space for

them to feel safe, to feel heard. And also they

hear me because when I give them that, they also

give me a lot that my purpose in life, one of my

purpose in life to feel I can do something, I can

make a change in someone else life. Even if it's a

small thing, but I still a huge thing for them.

>> Julia: That's really powerful to think that that gives

you the energy that you're making a difference to

somebody's life.

So what things do you wish people knew about being

a friend to refugees?

>> Dallya: It's lifetime experience. You learn a lot from

them. Not everyone live their lives. Most of the

refugee friends used to be skilled. Like they

worked in different field in their back home. But

they've been forced, like bushed or something like

that. Yeah. Forced to leave their homeland. Loved

one, not by choice in many cases. So for me I

learned like a lot from them about their culture,

about how they cope in life in here in the uk even

with the difficult situation or difficult

experience they are, they are going through. So I

would say like it's, it's many things people can,

the person can learn from one of the thing from my

previous work, I'm not going to mention this

place, that woman like was very difficult for

people to speak to and when I decided to recruit

her to join the project, everyone was looking

like, are you sure? And she was aggressive toward

me at the beginning when I said like, we have this

project, please join us. I don't know. And she was

like, she asked me just to leave. I said like,

okay, this is my name and you can find me anytime

you think. Like by end of the day she registered

with us. And throughout the project we found out

like, she, she has like beautiful heart and soul

but covered with toughness and aggressive. Because

what she been through, I think since she joined

the project, she felt supported, she felt heard

and she felt not alone. And this is one of the

things I learned. Do not assume or ah, put

assumptions like in a person from outside. Just

give them a chance. You don't know what's going on

with this person or when and where they slept last

time. You don't know.

>> Julia: What are you grateful for?

>> Dallya: I'm grateful to be alive every day. I'm grateful

for the breath I'm taking at the moment. I used to

take things for granted but now, looking for

everything in my life and I feel grateful for me

to be a mother, to be in this country. Maybe this

is going to be weird one it feel like in the uk,

but I've been through experience that led me now

to be able to help people who come in to the uk

like, or they are going through a lot with the

asylum system. And I'm grateful for you guys for

inviting me. Even like, I feel like but even by

the way, English, not my first language. It's my

third one. No, I'm joking. Just my second one. And

some point I used to feel ashamed of that but I

realised that's not. Weakness is one of my

strength. I love my struggle with pronouncing the

PB because I don't have that letter in my mother

tongue. And I don't feel like I'm bad because I

didn't picked up the accent because I'm speaking

to my children at home, in Arabic because I don't

want them to listen. They speak, they reply to me

in English, but I still, I speak Arabic at home. I

feel like it's my strength that I'm learning new

language for me. Even when people laughed at me, I

said like, I can understand your language but you

can't understand me. So don't look at me like

underestimately.

>> Julia: I'm always impressed, with somebody who's learning

like English as their second language because I am

rubbish at languages. Anyway, thank you for

joining us.

>> Dallya: Yeah, thanks to you.

>> Julia: Thanks for Listening to Things I Wish I Knew. I

know this conversation is going to stay with me

because Dalia reminded me about the importance of

being welcoming to everyone, but especially to

refugees. Everyone has dignity, and it's important

that we remember that. How about you? We'd love to

hear how Dahlia's story resonated with you and why

not also tell us if you're facing an experience

you wish you knew how to look at differently, it

might just be something we can help with. You can

find out more about this and other themes at

thinkingfaith.org thank you again for listening. I

hope you'll join me again next time on Things I

Wish I Knew.